Dr. Masachs Boungou, an eternal optimist, author, and public speaker, shares his incredible journey from fleeing war-torn Republic of the Congo to finding success in the United States.
The type of entrepreneurship practiced in Silicon Valley is often criticized for being homogenous and lacking diversity. That's why Dr. Boungou's is such a fresh perspective.
Many privileged entrepreneurs have no idea what real hardship looks like.
Dr. Masachs Boungou was able to turn horrific childhood events into a positive outlook, and now? He has authored a paper on how extreme personal tragedy has driven 25 entrepreneurs to later greatness. It's proof that you can overcome anything life throws at you, if you have the right mindset.
(upbeat music) - I am Azash Michungu and I am optimistic about the future because I believe that the best is year to come. We have the opportunity and the drive to make the things that happen. Only those will make the things that happen and can be, you know, opportunities that I am optimistic. (upbeat music) - Future optimist. - Future. - Is there anything you're less optimistic about? - Wow, that's quite a tough question. I don't think so. I mean-- - You're an eternal optimist. - Oh, that's great question. - I'm not trying to force your hands. - Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't want to sound too political, okay, because of what is going on, around the world, and we have a war in Ukraine, we have instability in some parts, in sub-seven African countries, and we have immigration issue in this country. So there is a kind of a stigma towards an immigrants, I can say, not a whole immigrants. But still, I remain optimist because I think optimism is that what drives change, that what drives entrepreneurial change and entrepreneurial innovation. - Yeah. - All right, good answer, good diplomatic answer. Hopefully not too political. (laughing) So for those of us that we're doing a little mini episode special episode, following up with my good friend, Dr. Mazash. Now, when we last spoke, you had written a book, a memoir, putting, which I've got right here, ooh, the power of personal history. - Insisted. - Dr. Mazash Bongu here, talking about how you went through some unbelievable stuff to escape incredible hardship in the Republic of the Congo, war-torn, fleeing your village out in the middle of a forest for days and weeks and extended periods separated from your family, truly an unbelievable immigrant story, ending up in the United States with nothing, losing the last bit of your money, as I recall, and the taxi driver that took you where you were going. That's how you ended up in the United States of America. Obviously, you have built a career for yourself as a speaker and you're drawing some incredible attention to not only the problems that you have faced, but also the benefits and the amazing things that wait for immigrants such as yourself in the United States. - So we're having this follow-up episode because since that time, you have published a new article and I thought it would be relevant to give an update on that. So why don't you give us some background into what you've been up to and what your newest publication is? - Yeah, so I want to say once again, thank you so much for having me on your show. I very much appreciate the opportunity to come and only talk with you, but also talk with your audience. I published another book, "The Struggle with Kerry," defining how existence as a successful failure. And then recently, I have published this article as part of a chapter of my dissertation because my dissertation was about looking at personal crises and how these crises drive immigrant entrepreneurs to become successful. And that's what they have been up to. I have also been working on two books, probably by the end of this month or next month, I will publish another two books. - Congratulations. - Yes. - That's awesome. So that's the part that I wanted to latch on because we talked about this in the previous episode, but one of the things that personal tragedy can do, it can cripple you, it can destroy you. Almost everybody has experienced some form of personal tragedy. Very few have experienced it to the degree that you have in your own life, although too many to count, no doubt. You have used this tragedy to propel yourself into something new and to have a positive outlook on the world after experiencing what you have and in some sense truly mind-blowing because if anybody had a right to maybe not have a positive outlook, it could be you or people who have faced similar hardships in their life. What I'm very fascinated with is how you have flipped that script and turned it into something of value for you. And that's why I wanted to talk about the paper. So what are the findings of your paper? - Quite often we overlook, we underestimate the value of a personal crisis and we usually approach them with a sense of rejection, a sense of shame. Though personal crises are part of how we like, okay? You have mentioned it. It doesn't depend on the degree to which you have encountered a loss. It can be a loss of your spouse, your father, someone who was so dear to you. That's also part of a personal crisis but how you did with it as you mentioned. So it can freeze you and by freezing you, it means that you don't have that thrill for life. You don't have that excitement for achievement, for advancement. So you become frozen, okay? You just leave but deep inside you are not alive anymore. Or it can liberate you. And by liberation, meaning that you find your path of a service in the world. It can be through your work, your career, creating businesses. And that's what drives me into your question, two things that I found, okay. One, most of my interviewees survived civil war genocide of both in Africa. And then they went on to become successful business leaders. And one finding was that they capitalize on these personal crises to build the personality traits. Something like hope, something like optimism, something like drive perseverance. And as you mentioned optimism, listen, there are no more optimist people than entrepreneurs or than business leaders. If you want to lead business, you have to be optimist. That's a part of your DNA. And if you cannot have it, you can build it, okay? So your crisis that you want to form. So that number one. And number two, of course, they look at personal crises as something that has enabled them to be ready made for any future business challenges. So meaning that if they have been able to survive, what did they survive, nothing can threaten them anymore. - Then a delay of getting a business tax certificate approved as miniscule and comparison. - Of course. - Compared to genocide. - Yeah, that's one example. - Yes, yes, of course, yeah. - Or late payment from a contract, yeah. - Of course, of course, of course. It brings them a sense of being unbroken, being invisible, they cannot be defeated. So it's quite interesting. - That's why I find this tension so fascinating because you're talking about what appear to be polar opposites. You're talking about going through this crisis and that optimism, which I think you're right, every entrepreneur I've ever spoken to has claimed at least publicly to be optimistic about both the future and the world, which to me is shocking, but I can't argue with the data. How can you experience something as brutal as personal tragedy on the scale of genocide and some of the problems that you're discussing? How can you experience that level of tragedy and not throw up your hands and say, the world sucks. The world is a terrible place because you would say that somebody who's gone through some of the things that you've described would have every reason to say, screw this place. I have nothing to be optimistic about, humans suck. - Yes, it's quite hard to say, but I believe that the personal crisis have two fundamental elements. Okay, one is the opportunity to acquire new knowledge, new capabilities, new purchases for further crisis. And number two, these crises are also the moments of truth, meaning that the moments where we can see more clearly how strengths, how witnesses, and how we can adjust to that. But to get to that point, it also takes a level of reflection, not to say self-reflection on what has happened and how you decide to reconstruct your life not only around what has happened, but beyond what has happened. And usually I say, and our history is not the past. History is where we are. History invokes inspirations that shape our future, that present any future conditions. And how our crises are part of who we are. And the moment we deny the crisis that we go through, it means that we are denying our self the opportunity, not only to grow, but the opportunity to create entrepreneurial change that we want to see in the world. - Incredible. So how many people did you track for this study? How many different entrepreneurs did you monitor? - Around 25. - 25. Okay, and what are some of the takeaways that we who have experienced, I had a personal crisis. You talked about being separated from your family, walking for miles and miles, being in a remote jungle, not knowing where your food and water is gonna come from, all of that. I have an equally distressful personal crisis. Yesterday, the mailman, on the outgoing mail, he pulled a piece of my mail, and he ripped the corner off. That's, I mean, that's bad, right? That's a horrific personal tragedy. I think we can both agree, genocide, mishandling my mail, roughly equivalent, right? - Yeah, of course, but as I said, you know, I mean, it depends on what you have. - It depends on how, it depends on how you want to do. - It's too diplomatic, man. - No, no, no, it just depends on how you want to equate it. - Yeah, okay, all right, I think we're doing this. - Yeah, it also depends on how you look at your crisis. It can be a moment of awakening, but the real problem is you, as a person and-- - That's always the problem. - As an individual, of course, that's you. So how do you reflect on that? What a kind of influence, what a kind of impact that it has exerted upon you, okay? So there's no way to quantify the impact, but you deal with it by yourself, and you know if this is a moment of awakening or not, if this is what I call the stimulus of truth or not. - Very good. (clapping) In the future, if this entrepreneurship thing doesn't work out, you have a long career as either a therapist or a lawyer ahead of you. That was brilliant maneuvering. (laughing) That means take my nonsense and turn it into something meaningful. Bravo. - No, no, no, no. - Your patience is infinite. - No, I don't see myself in such regard, but I do believe that human beings thrive in myths and the crises. Do you have to be a special species to re-emerge from what you have gone for as a personal crisis? The point that I am trying to say here is to dismantle this negative narrative around the personal crisis, because people sometimes often don't talk about it, and quite often when you talk about it, they may have certain judgments on you. But listen, this country is the only country where the story of a loser, quote unquote, someone who lost before has a come back and you succeed is praised. It is only in this country that the story of such a man is praised. - We love a comeback. - We love a comeback. - Of course, of course. - If Danny Trejo can be successful, if Danny Trejo can have taco shops and donut shops and illustrious acting career, then the doors wide open for anybody to reinvent themselves. - Yes, of course. But I think very few people do so. - Very few people do, I agree, I agree. And that's what it's all about. Thanks for sharing that. I really appreciate it. Your insight and your optimism and your positivity is always valued. I think we all need a dose of that. We all struggle with problems in our own lives, such as somebody tearing the corner off of your freaking mail. - And we tend to expand those problems and catastrophize and make them seem worse in our mind than they actually are. So it's refreshing to know that somebody like you is studying not only how immigrants see entrepreneurship in this country or see America in general, but also how people who have dealt with extraordinary hardships. The kind that I fortunately can only imagine have bounced back and not only done well, but thrived in spite of that. It's just a great story for everybody. So the final word as always is yours. What can people do to support you, to check out your paper, your books, anything you like? - Two things. One, the story of these immigrant entrepreneurs is a part of American story. It's a part of what America is. America thrives amidst adversity. America never surrenders. America always comes back. So this story, of course, reflected the spirit of innovation, the spirit of entrepreneurship, the spirit of bringing the entrepreneurial change in the world that we live in. That's one thing. And two, and of course, you can buy my books, my first book, my second book, and my next books that will be published probably by the end of the next month. And the first book that I will be releasing next month is my dissertation. So I have turned my dissertation into a book. - Cool. - Yes, what I wanted, I did not want my dissertation just to be in academia, because just being in academia limits the audience to the knowledge to what I have found out in my dissertation. So I wanted my dissertation to be accessible to more audience. And I call it personal crises, building a stronger leadership story and shaping business success. - Awesome. I appreciate you, man. Thank you for sharing, and thank you for keeping up the good work. With that, this little mini episode is over. - Over, over, over, over. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
