Hello everybody. My name is Nikola Farari and I'm a startup founder from Italy. I'm an engineer and I was having a dream job in Farari and while I was working there I knew that there were some bigger problems that we had to solve. We work in the circular economy industry and initially it was not really related to climate. We started solving problems related to EV batteries because nobody thinks about it otherwise now we have just a few batteries and in the future we're going to have millions every year to dispose of and if we don't do and prepare anything for this then it's going to be a problem. So welcome to the show. Glad to have you here. I love when you said nobody thinks about it because that's the subtitle of this podcast. We're going to rename it to nobody thinks about a podcast. That's the new title because that's generally what we discuss. Before we jump into the content of this Farari car, any relation to the great day? I know that's like Smith in Italian, right? Any connection at all or is it really just the most common to because we're the literal translation of Smith. Farari is from Fabro Farari who is the black Smith. Yes, it's a very common last name and no I'm not related in any way. It's actually the second I think the second most common last name although I must say fun fact also my dad used to work for Farari as an engineer and so it's quite common for us to be asked this question. Right, you're from a long line of Farari's who happened to work at Farari. No relation. At least so yeah but it is interesting because you know you that was where you got your pedigree. You were an racing engineer, AI engineers you said you got your dream job early which I do want to get into what made your dream job and how you got into cars but before we dive into some of that and the fascination with cars in general, you touched on a really interesting point and that's something that I'm really fascinated with in general which is what happens to all this stuff. We know we're building tons and tons of crap. More gadgets come out every day. We have gadgets on top of gadgets. Our kitchen is filled with gadgets. Our garage is filled with gadgets and each day somebody new is trying to convince us to buy some new battery powered device or electric device and we're doing that but nobody thinks about it. Nobody thinks about what is the consequence of this buildup of devices and in some sense, I think that's okay. I think it's good to bridge the gap to these new technologies because again, when we built the first internal combustion engine car, we didn't know the future of what was going to happen from that type of car and look at how far it's come in the last 100 years. So in some sense, I think we can be forgiven for just leaping on Tesla and these electric cars and saying it's the future, not fully knowing what we're going to do about lithium ion batteries and all of that mess. But there is this looming crisis that's coming that you touched upon that very few people seem to talk about which is what happens when all of these batteries die, especially as more and more of us transition to this form of transportation. So that's one of the real interesting reasons that I wanted to bring you on this show because I wanted to hear your thoughts. First of all, how did you strike upon this as a major problem? And second of all, why do you think you can solve it in such a short time the last few years? So it is a problem nobody talks about, especially because when you start selling, for example, electric vehicles, but it can also be applied to internal combustion engines, vehicles, 100 years ago. We started producing these things, we started using them, and we found out the problems about end of life as we were using them, right? And nobody, probably not many people know that the car recycling, though, so the end of life of normal cars is a success story in the modern world. Cars are recycled up to 95, 98%. We recycle everything, scrap materials, batteries, let, yes, exactly, they do an amazing job. And they are also getting more and more into EV recycling and end of life management, because that's their future. I think that we don't talk about the end of life of things for two reasons. First, some of the end of life, so some things are just already sorted out. So nobody thinks about, for example, recycling your lead asset battery, you just bring it to the shop, you return it, you don't just burn it in a pile. I just burn all my batteries in the backyard in a fire. Is that what you're supposed to do? Actually, you could do that. I don't know, it's the best thing and the IP EPA would only get back. I don't learn it already. This is very valuable. And the same thing will apply to electric vehicles. So right now, I'll be honest, it's a small problem in the sense that we have low volumes. We see the volumes, we talk with car makers, we spoke with, I would say, a good 70% of the car makers of the Western world. And they have very little volumes of batteries to manage right now, because these products are new. And most of the batteries that we're recycling as of now is they come from a production scrap and things like this. The real end of life is going to be in a couple of years, the real big issue, but we have to prepare now. And we found out, you asked me how I stumbled upon this opportunity in this film, to be honest, when I started scouted, we were focusing on the electrification, but with a different product. But then when we were speaking with companies, especially with battery companies and car makers, everybody was talking about this, the problems of electrifications. And one of the most important is the battery, right? It's the most valuable thing. It's the most expensive thing of the car right now, because everything else is quite cheap compared to the battery. That's the most technology-packed thing. And I know it sounds like a made-up sentence, but we cannot throw them in a landfill. It makes no sense. These things are very recyclable. You can recycle 95% of those things, even 100% metal, rare earths, lithium, everything, even the casing, the plastics. You can do everything. So we started working on this, and we understood that it's a small market right now, but it's going to be a key stone of the green economy, a circular economy. And it's fundamental, especially if we want to have a sustainable future for the next five generations. It's just a part. Mobility is just a part of the emissions that we have. We have industry, we have also, for example, logistics. It's a huge pollutant, but we can do our small part in mobility. And that's why we're focusing on it. It's also a quite motivating thing to do, because it's useful. We're not just producing a gimmick, a hardware, or something that you could just sell and make some money. It's probably a more difficult thing to do. After five, 10 years, maybe I'll be more satisfied with this. Yeah. Well, that's a very noble reason. And that's a great point that very few people think about. We Americans, we like to think that we can buy our way out of everything, right? That we can solve all of our problems just by buying something more. There is this thing of voting with your dollars, choosing which products to buy, buying more consciously, which of course I agree with. That's one of the few things that we can do as individuals. But then there's this other component of, I don't know if you've seen the show called Adam ruins everything. It's a show where this guy, he debunked stuff. And of course, the point that very few people want to talk about is buying a new electric car is not better than not buying a car. The best thing you can do is drive your old internal combustion engine until the wheels fall off and keep it going for hundreds of thousands of miles. And a lot of people think that buying that new Tesla is actually the best thing they can do. But he breaks down that it's very wasteful. And there are a lot of things that go into making any new car electric or not. And as with all things, not buying something, not having a second car is of course the more eco friendly solution. But we love to believe that we can just buy our way out of these problems. And that somehow buying a new Tesla is me helping solve the problem of the world even if I don't need it. And that kind of brings me to this point of cars. Obviously you are a car guy. I think it's clear based on your life you care about cars. Lots of guys care about cars that care about fast cars that care about racing cars. They care about nice cars cars as a status symbol. I'm not a car guy. I've never been a car guy. I will drive the cheapest car until the wheels fall off. What for you is the fascination with cars. And why are you so interested in cars in general? And why have you been in your dad? Did you grow up that way? Yeah. So first, I will say two things. So the first is that what you said about driving the car you have until the very end of its life is 100% agree. I agree 100% with that. Matter of fact, we worked with electrification and circular economy. I drive an old Subaru with 350,000 kilometers for the same reason. Yes, that's the most sustainable thing you can do. Get a car and drive it as long as you can. Because the electric Tesla that you will buy has an impact. Even if it's electric and you don't have emissions, it has an impact materials. Also, for example, pollution during the manufacturing that I would say that people don't really consider because also you want to have the nice electric car. So I 100% agree with that. And that's a very important lesson for everybody who's listening. I think it's the right thing to do. But of course, we are in economy, a capitalistic economy, and we have to build things to provide jobs to people and keep innovating. Innovation is amazing, right? So how did I get into cars? And what fascinated me about cars? I'll be 100% honest. It was from my family. So I was born and raised in what we call the motor valley. So it's like Silicon Valley. That makes sense. We really have our region. Yeah, our region is called the motor valley. And we have Lamborghini, Ferrari. So we live in an industry in which cars are the base of the economy. So that's the first factor. The second factor is that in my family, we grew up around cars. My dad, I don't know if you can see here behind. These are all model cars. Yeah, clearly, there are a lot of passion there. Yeah, just my dad company manufactured these cool cars. So I grew up with him going around the different tracks, meeting drivers. So that's how I got into motorsport. Then I studied motorsport engineering. And I worked as an engineer in Ducati, which is the motorcycle company. And then I was called by Ferrari to be a testing and tracking engineer for the road cars, not for the road cars. And so that's why I said it was my dream job, because I was just graduated. And I wanted to go on track, drive the cars. And that's what we did every day. So it was amazing. And it was a passion job. So even though we worked a lot, it was not heavy, because it was just really fun. It was just really fun. So I don't really know if I can tell you objective reason why cars fascinate me. It's part of my family grow up. It's part of me growing up in the cars, in the family that loves cars, in this valley here, in the motor valley. And it's just built in my brain. And I will always love cars and vintage cars, modern cars, motorcycles, engines, remote controlled cars, everything. But it's just maybe you're, I don't know if you're into music and you love guitars, right? I don't know. Anyway, it's an art form. Yeah. You just love playing music. Yeah, it's an art form. It's much more in probably industrial, but it's just about passion, right? I think that the cool thing is that in this world, we live in a world in which we can be passionate about whatever thing we want. And so yeah, that makes sense real quick. Valentino Rossi or Mark Marquez? Oh my god. Check. All right. I mean, come on. This was an easy question. It should be an easy question. It should be. Yeah, it should be. If it's, if someone answers Mark Marquez, I think they will cut your past. I could believe that. I could believe that. We don't want to see no red in the stands. Only yellow smoke, yellow smoke. No, I completely understand it objectively. And obviously it means different things in different places like in Italy and Europe and you have all these tracks MotoGP, Formula One, all of that, which I do understand. Here in the United States, our version of it, NASCAR, I think it's such a representative thing of the US because we just drive in a circle. It's like, how much gas can we burn just for the sake of burning gas? That's the American way. How wasteful can we possibly be just driving a circle? Who cares about the limited fossil fuels? Yeah. But I went to Talladega. I went to Talladega September. I'm trying a little fun. Shoot dude. That's a good time. But yeah, it's one of those things we have mixed feelings about. There are a lot of things that we do for fun that are also not very eco-friendly or not very sustainable. Driving gas-guzzling vehicles is definitely one of those things. We know fossil fuels are rare. We know they're scarce and we're depleting them, but we love to just see how fast we can go and who cares how much gas we burn. And that's why it's just an interesting... That's why I asked about cars in general because I'm fascinated with things that are status symbols. That's sort of no real functional purpose. I don't see it as a state of sum. I don't care. I mean, I could have bought a car as soon as I graduated and started working. Yes, but I just like cars. I don't really care about showing off the car, right? So I'm very, I don't know, maybe utilitarian is the red thing. So I have my Subaru. It does the job. It's about mobility. I really differentiate between mobility and... Completely agree. Right? Mobility is moving from point A to point B. That's what everybody does. Yes. And to do that, you don't even need a bike. A bike. You need maybe a good public transportation or an e-bike. Yeah, or a scooter. That's all you need for mobility. Okay, the U.S. is a little bit different because from one town to the other, it's probably 30 miles. Massive. And on an e-bike in summer, maybe that's not the best thing. But for a majority of euro, mobility is about short distances and you don't need a car. So I differentiated a lot and I don't see the sense in buying a Cadillac escalator to go to work. Big problem with these batteries. These companies are obviously aware. They're aware of the problem of getting the resources. We talk about rare earth materials, lithium deposits. We just discovered a huge lithium deposit. We know that there are issues surrounding the manufacturing of these batteries. What is the insight that you have that others haven't had about the end of life and turning this into a circular economy process? Yeah, so I'll be quite straightforward. I think there is a lot of misinformation in general media. And it's the electrification also in Europe, but I see also in the U.S. it's very used by the politicians to work on their agenda, right? So I see, for example, in Europe, right parties are against electrifications, left parties are towards electrification, right? So this is a big problem in the sense that we, the general public, doesn't really get the real information in normal media outlets. A thing that I want to say is that there are very interesting regulations in Europe, for example, that define very well what you have to do with the battery. I'll give you an example. Then I'll talk also about the U.S. In Europe, every car, every electric vehicle, the disposal of the battery of this electric vehicle that is put into the market is must be done by the car maker who sells it. So Tesla in Europe is responsible of disposing properly the batteries that they're putting in the market in Europe. And if they don't do that, they can't get fined, which doesn't mean they do get fined because we spoke with many companies and nobody really enforced this on the European level, but the regulation mandates the proper disposal. And that's why we work directly with the car makers, because they are the ones who have to dispose of these batteries. And imagine this, you're going to have millions of batteries in Europe by 2030. Some companies estimate up to five, six millions every year. And it can be complete chaos, but with this regulation, it's the central, usually circular economy departments of the car making company that are responsible to collect these batteries and dispose them either through a partner who does recycling or repurpose them in other less intensive applications. There's a very interesting array of disposal methods, right? And they have to do it. They will not throw it in the landfill. So this is a very important thing. In the US, on the other side, there is no such a regulation at the moment, because in the US, the only thing that drives these kind of initiatives is, can I make money out of this? If I can make money out of this, be sure I will do something. So there's a very different thing, different approach, right? But in the end, even, for example, in China, there's a very similar set of rules, similar to the one in Europe. So actually, these batteries by law should be properly managed. And what can you do with them? So here's the important thing, and I think it's really interesting, you can recycle them. And as I said at the beginning, you can basically recycle 100% of the materials. Maybe not 100% of them are a very good amount of them. But recycling is expensive. Recycling companies get paid to recycle. So there are other opportunities to extend even further the life of the battery. And for example, this is called repurposing. So you repurpose the battery in something else. I'll give you an example. Do you know the Tesla Mega Pack? So these kind of systems, I don't know if the Tesla Mega Pack is made with new batteries. I think it's made with new batteries. But these energy storage systems, battery energy storage systems, can be made with used electric vehicle batteries. Because when you have your electric vehicle car and you have to replace the battery, usually it still has 80% of the original capacity. 80%. Yeah, 80%. What's not capable to do anymore is provide the power to propel a vehicle. So you cannot move your car and the capacity is lower, so you have shorter range. Okay. But what you can do is use it for a less intensive application. For example, you have solar panels on your roof. You pair them with a battery pack. Now you can charge the pack during the day and use the energy at night. And of course, there is some reverse engineering that you have to do. And there's companies who are specialized in these second life applications. Okay. And there's many startups who are doing an amazing job. We had the opportunity to work with a few of them last year. And it's a very interesting opportunity. It's a small market as of now. But in the future, when we're going to have millions of battery, that's going to be exciting. And the cool thing is that you can extend the life. So a battery will not live only 10 years in the first car, in the first life of a car. But it's going to live in a, for example, the roof of a factory, or maybe a residential home. So you want to stay with him? Even, you know, I've talked to a guy, I interviewed somebody a while back, maybe a year ago, Arnold Lightner, who has this company called you solar, might be good to get in touch with somebody like him, because he makes that solution, he storage solution for home, to get you off the grid when your solar is not working. So it might be nice to hire you guys, because somebody like that could be a great source for you. And he's also based in Europe. I'll definitely connect you guys. Also, yeah, please never know, right? But that does bring up an interesting point. And one of the things we love talking about in the show is the idea of reuse. We talk about recycling, which is all well and good, but recycling costs resources, but reusing things or just not recycling them is obviously getting more life out of something is a great solution. So that's fascinating. So when you talk to these companies, are they is it something that they know that they need to do and they just feel frustrated or annoyed by and you come and you say, I'll take care of this for you. And they say, Oh, thank God, here you deal with it. Or are they working on it? Do they like to do this? Do they not like to do it? How do they receive you when you come in and make your pitch? I think that most of the companies see this as an opportunity. There's also some more interesting research that I read a couple of months ago on the circular economy model. And it can generate profit. Okay, I'll just give you an example, Renault in France, but also Stellantis in Europe, which owns also Jeep and Dodge in the US, for example, they are setting up departments just to manage circular economy. Nissan also in the US doing this. And it's really Nissan's model is amazing. They've been doing it for 10 years, doing pilot projects, testing different things, giving opportunities to different startups because nobody really has an idea of what really works. But many see opportunities in this. And since it's a thing that they have to do and you don't have an alternative, you might as well hire the right people who are excited about this and who can make the circular economy model profitable for these companies. So you're seeing right now these huge corporations that manufacture cars that are opening energy divisions. Also Mercedes has Mercedes energy, for example, because they see the opportunity in this. And the energy world and the automotive world is getting more connected because of electrification. So I still have to find a company that says, Oh, we have to deal with this and we hate it. Let's just throw the batteries away somewhere else. They have people who do this. Maybe they're not excited about their job. I don't know, but they have departments to do this. So when you come in, what do you bring them that they don't already have? So what we bring them is we are a software company. Okay. And what we bring them is the technological infrastructure to manage everything from when the battery is removed from a car, for example, in a dismantling unit or a workshop from when the battery is removed from a car, all the way to the recycle and certification. So we provide a complete platform for to manage the end of life batteries for regulatory compliance, actually for Europe in the US, not much needed, but in Europe, it's needed. And we also provide the opportunity, if the batteries are good, to trade these batteries for second life. So we all on our platform, all the stakeholders work together. So this mentor can say, hey, circular economy team of Ford, I have a battery. I don't know what to do with that. The circular economy team of Ford checks the battery, sees the state of fault or whatever information they need. And they can decide, okay, I'll assign this to my recycling partner. Or hey, this battery is good. Let's sell it on the secondary market to a second life company who may be interested in doing something else with it. And it's an enterprise solution. So we sell to the car maker, but all that we have different users who interact on this. And as of now, the volumes are very small. But when imagine when we're going to have millions of batteries, if you don't streamline the processes, it's going to be a complete chaos. So we provide technology, the infrastructure to manage everything from a. That's awesome. You mentioned at the very beginning, you're an optimist, and that's a hallmark of great entrepreneurs and great social entrepreneurs. The circular economy is something that I'm endlessly fascinated with. I love the triple bottom line, win, win, wins. I love the idea of turning waste into something productive. It's a huge theme in the past 200 episodes. But how do you think you can train yourself to see the opportunity in something bad, where one person sees a massive pile of garbage, another person maybe sees an opportunity. How have you trained yourself to see an opportunity instead of getting pessimistic and saying we're screwed? This is a very interesting question. I think that it depends on probably also in general, not just about business, but in general on how you view life. And I understand that being optimist is not for everybody, but I think you can train yourself and be proactive about it. And what I think, for example, when I was during lockdown, Italy had a very strong and strict lockdown. We had during COVID, we had a very bad situation. And it was the lowest point of my life. And I had basically two things to do. I could either cry every day, because I was alone, or I could try to do something more productive and see it as an opportunity. And it's not easy, absolutely not easy. But I just think that maybe you can do it alone in the sense that you can convince yourself of being optimistic and being proactive, seeing the opportunities everywhere. Or you can also, I'll be honest, work with a mental coach or a psychologist, because the approach you have in life really helps you also being happier, I think. And some people do it with a mental coach. If you think also about sports people, they have mental coaches. And some people do it alone. I was able to be optimist. And I always try to see the bright side of things, also because the alternative is more sad, right? Why should I be sad and negative about something when I can try to be positive? And in the end, if it doesn't work, I can be sad, because, but I at least tried, right? So that's why the approach I take on everything. But I think that if it doesn't come from yourself, it can be obtained by working with people who know how to achieve that. It's like when you have a tummy ache and you go to the doctor, because you don't know what to do with your tummy ache, I think the same approach can be done, also because we have all humans share the same pattern, behavioral patterns, right? And also a thing that may be to consider is your background, your life background. Maybe you had a very difficult life, so you're negative. Maybe you have traumas. And of course, you're negative, whereas maybe I didn't have tremendous traumas, so I'm more optimistic about things, because things have always been going better. So that's another thing to consider. But even in that case, with help from some people, you can see the bright side of things. And the alternative is just being negative in life, and in the end, it's just one life. So why being negative? I know maybe it's just a very generic sentence to say, but I really believe that. There's lots of wisdom in there. And in the United States or in English language, we have an expression, ignorance is bliss. And there are certain people who just look, they don't even notice the problem. Everything is fine. Everything's fine. I'm not looking at the landfill. I'm not looking at the ways. I'm not looking at the e-waste. There are a lot of people who live their life on that frequency. And I think they're very happy. That's why we say ignorance is bliss. But pessimism goes hand-in-hand with intelligence. And a lot of the people who are depressed and they're pessimistic, they're actually smarter because they have their eyes open and they see all of the problems in the world and they look, "Whoa, things are not amazing. There are many things that I would like to change, and I can't change them. I'm one small person, and that leads to pessimism and depression." That's what makes it so much more special and rare and difficult when somebody sees that, feels that natural pessimism inside of themselves, and yet somehow gathers the strength or courage either by themselves or with professional help, to say, "I'm going to flip that narrative, and I'm going to turn my individual depression and pessimism into positive action." And I don't say that lightly because I know that that zero-to-one step is one of the hardest, most difficult things that any human can do. For some people just getting out of bed, making the bed that morning is the most impossible task, even though maybe on the other side of that is incredible wealth of knowledge and information and joy, and I think you've experienced some of that going on this journey. So for yourself, how do you feel? No, I just wanted to say that there is always going to be that 10% of passage in yourself, because nothing is perfect, right? And you know that. It's just let the 10% be in yourself as a reminder. I think it works because you know that there's always some negative things that you have, but you can use that and propel it to be optimist in the rest 90%. So now that you've come out of that COVID depression, which I think we can all relate to, how do you feel a few years on? Do you feel some kind of motivation that comes from being on this new path? Are you excited? Are you switched on in a way that you never were before? I'm very excited. I've been thinking of the last four years, three years since COVID finished. It was such a growth phase for me that when really when I hit the rock bottom, I knew that I could only improve and I feel really lucky to be able to say that, because I know that the experiences of every many other people were not as positive as mine, but although it was negative, I see it as a positive, and I'm feeling great because I think also a thing that really helps me is that, for example, even in my startup career, my entrepreneur career, things are tough. Starting the business is tough. And you know how startups are. You may be that next year. Of course, it's always the risk. I think that really keeps me motivated and positive, is that I was happy even when I was doing a normal job, even when I was making very little money, even when I was working many hours, but because I was able to separate, for example, the work that was doing in my life mentally. And so what I see is, okay, why am I optimistic about my startup, even if some days everything is going bad, because it's just a part, a huge part, but it's just a part of Nikola as a person, right? So yes, there's some bad days, but my happiness, even if my startup goes kaput next day, my happiness, it's going to be a huge disappointment, but my happiness can be found also elsewhere. And this mindset really helps me in navigating the difficult days, which we have a lot. Well, that's a very healthy and a very good mindset to have, especially if you're going to have a startup, I think it's a very good mindset to truly be okay, because everybody likes to say, oh, I'm okay if the worst happens, but to truly be okay with that outcome is a very special place to be. Yeah, it would be extremely disappointing. Of course, you pour your heart and soul in your in this endeavor. And if it goes bad, oh my god, you put two years of hard work into this and doesn't work, that's a disappointment. But in the end, I think that mentally thinking it like this really helps. Well, you know, there's a lot of YouTube and there's a big discussion right now about this epidemic with males and young males and depression and the burden that is on young men's shoulders. And I do agree with it very much actually, but I'm also surrounded by women. I just had a son, but before that, I had a daughter. So I'm not specifically thinking about just the male perspective here, but the burden that is on a young man's shoulders these days as the economy is changing, the price of housing goes up or earning power goes lower and lower. We know that the gap is widening and a lot of these things that used to seem within reach are not in reach, like homeownership or maybe buying that second car. There's a lot of stuff that feels like it's hopeless and that also leads to depression. And I'm aware that the burden that is on a young person's shoulders, male or female is very high. And we all have examples of friends who have succumbed to the negative voice and have become alcoholics, have checked into rehab or who have just let it all go. It's become too much. And when I see those types of stories, it's so easy to understand how somebody could give in to that 10% pessimistic voice, very easy, maybe now more than ever. And that's what makes it all the more inspiring when somebody doesn't. And I think it's very important to acknowledge how difficult it is, how difficult it is to make that step. And that's always been true of building a business in general, but building an eco business, building a climate tech business, that's an extra layer of difficulty, because it might not necessarily be the easiest space to go into versus some other things. You could just be a crypto bro and just trade stocks on Wall Street Bath. You don't need to make anything, you don't need to do anything, you don't need to build or produce anything, you could just extract. That's fine. It could have been a good first job and then have a little bit more stability for the climate things, but I'm not into that. That's right. Batteries can go into Bitcoin mining operations. That's what they're really for, powering the GPUs of more frivolous pursuit. But yeah, that's why it's great to have role model. There's a billion dollar idea. But yeah, again, I wanted to chat with you because that arc is so fast. You've turned one of the most, one of the things that's most associated with consumerism and that lust for consumerism, the automotive industry, and just look at the advertising of the automotive industry and for the last 70 years, and you know how it's positioned as an industry. It's not something you need. It's something you want. It's something that says something about who you are. Are you a businessman who's serious and you're on the go, then you better drive a Lexus, right? That's the way it's been jammed down our throat. And to come from that industry and to say, hey, there's an issue here and it's not hopeless. We can solve this and I'm going to solve it. Yeah, absolutely. Awesome, man. So great job. I really really appreciate it. And that's why I wanted to chat with you. We talked about that before we began taping, but that's why I wanted you on this show because I recognized your journey is something that anybody could do. But how many actually are and I personally would love to see a world where more people see it the way you do. I think we'll all be better off if more people approach it the way you do. I really, really appreciate that. Also, thank you so much for inviting me here. I really think that I listened to some episodes and I feel humble. I mean, you invite some amazing and talented success, already successful business people, researchers. And I feel really small in comparison. But being here just gives me a lot of excitement because it's a thing that resonates with people. We see that a lot. And it's very, it's a honor to be able to speak also about this and also inform other people about what we are. Well, the honor is mine. And I don't see it in terms of big and small and rich and not rich. That's one thing I wanted to do at the beginning. For me, it's about the arc. It's about the story. And it's about how that story represents the life of anybody who might be listening. And yes, it's really cool the person who sold their company for $3 billion. That's a fascinating story as well. But it's also cool, the individual who makes that step, whether that step succeeds or not, because life and all of the great things in life are built on the back of that one individual who makes that one choice. And anybody listening could make that one choice today, this year, that could lead not only to the world being a better place and saving our climate problems, but also to the next million, 10 million, 100 million billion dollar company. Because you could do it the next five, 10 years, it could be you. You could plug in with all of these car companies. You could change a motor valley or whatever you called it, a car valley. You could be that guy. And then that's your role. And that's awesome. And again, we work within the environment where all the product of the environment that we're a part of. So you're in that world. Now you can make that world better. That's all anybody can do. So that's why the honor is mine. Thanks a lot, Niccolo. And for people who are watching or listening, that website is scouted S-C-O-U-T-I-T, web.com. A cool looking website, TechStars2023, some very interesting players who are involved and just seems like it's getting more exciting day by day. So I wish you continued success. I know you'll have it and let's definitely stay in touch. So thank you very much, Niccolo. Absolutely. Thank you. It was amazing talking with you. Likewise, the podcast is officially over. [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
