Oh yeah. Hey everybody. Gerdade Sexton here holding down the fort at the Muckric podcast. This is your weekend or edition for subscribers and patrons. If you want to listen to the whole thing, go over to patreon.com/muckricpodcast, support the show, gain access to exclusive content, all that good stuff. Nick Houseman is away right now. He is in paradise. Actually, good for him. I've been holding down the fort and hanging out. And you know, I decided to do something a little bit different this week. Something a little bit special. I think you deserve it. So, as of right now, which is going to be Friday, August 2nd, I got two weekender episodes that I'm going to release. That's right. Two full-length weekender episodes. What you're about to listen to right now is an interview with Jake Rock-Katansky, who is one of the hosts of QAA, which is the formerly known as the QAnon Anonymous podcast. Jake is one of my favorite people out there. I hope you listen to this interview, we're going to talk about conspiracy theories, conspiracy theory culture, what's happened in America. During this time of excessive conspiracy theories, also mental health and the ways that we can fight back against conspiracyism. Jake is an incredibly thoughtful, intelligent dude, and I've been willing to talk to him for a while, and I think you're going to enjoy this. The other episode, which is going to drop simultaneously with this, the second weekender episode, is with the one and the only Sarah Kinzer. And we're going to talk about what's going on with our politics, where she feels like things are going, we're going to compare notes in terms of our research and how we feel about this current climate. But you're going to want to go over to patreon.com/mycreekpodcast and support the show, gain access to this stuff. We're growing, and we really, really appreciate it, and we appreciate you. So, without further ado, Jake Rokotansky from QAA. All right, everybody. When I tell you that I have been waiting to have this conversation for forever and I could not be more excited, I'm even understating it, people, I'm here with Jake Rokotansky of the QAA podcast. Jake, my friend, it's so good to have you on. Oh, man, I'm really excited to be on. People might not know this, but we're like Twitter DM buds have been for a while. Jared reached out to me after my wife and I got into like horrible car accident, like checked in on me like a bud. And yeah, I mean, it's nice to talk about real life stuff, but it's overdue to talk about all the shit that has been going on these last couple of years. And with these last couple of months, most recently. Last couple of days, Jake. Last couple of days, last couple of hours. Hours, minutes. What do you want to do? Let's get to some fractions. Yeah. Jake, so before we jump into sort of the more recent stuff, for those who don't know, and I have to assume that you do, Jake and his partners on QAA, and before that, the QAnon Anonymous podcast, you've done us a great service. One of the things that we've been trying to do on the Muckrake podcast is talk about the rising threat of authoritarianism, the shallowness of American discourse and politics, how the Democratic Party needs to change. But you and your partners created a one-stop shop for, first of all, studying QAnon, second of all, delving into conspiracy theory, culture, history, background, all of that. I want to hear from you a little bit. What has that experience been like for you? To be on that beat for years, what has it been like to start with the QAnon conspiracy theory, which I want to get into and what it is and what it's become, but what has it been like to document and swim in this cooked world this way? You know, I mean, that's what it feels. It's swimming in a cooked world. It's being able to stay afloat in a weird way. Sometimes it feels like a superpower to not be convinced or easily swayed by whatever the latest conspiracy theory comes out. But at the same sense, at the same time, it's taken all the fun out of what I used to love about conspiracy theories. You know, I was a former conspiracy theorist. Man, I remember watching loose change. I remember, you know, watching 9/11 unfold. I was a freshman in college. And, you know, the general consensus was that there was something that was deeper going on. And, you know, for me, it was never political. It was always an interesting story. You know, I'd been working in entertainment for, you know, over a decade. And, you know, I wanted to be a screenwriter. So to me, conspiracy theories were plots. These were things that, you know, you were either reading on the Internet or before the Internet kind of passed on via word of mouth, you know, like urban legends. And that was always the interest for me and, and to, and I guess that's why when, when QAnon started to become so popular and we saw it sort of filtering out of the chance onto the more normal message boards like Reddit and then into messaging from, you know, right wing politicians. It, it, you know, it felt like a significant departure from how conspiracy theories had sort of permeated the culture previously. So, so, yeah, it's, you know, I've been, I, I, I got a therapist because, you know, a lot of times reading a lot of this stuff. You tend to disassociate. I remember during COVID. I remember during COVID when my wife and I went to get the vaccine. You know, I was like, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I'm not in any, you know, I, you know, that's totally against the kind of person I am. And, you know, just, just, you know, the things that I believe. And because I had been reading all of these conspiracy theories for work, I remember going in and being a little bit nervous. And so it can, you know, especially when you have kind of a open, a very open, unlocked brain, not saying that in a good way. Like I do. These things can get to you because there's, you know, we always, I think, wonder as researchers or just as people in general, like, what if I am wrong? What if, what if, what if these guys are right, actually? And, and I'm the one, I'm the idiot. And, and so, you know, it's definitely been a struggle. It's been a struggle. But it's, it's good. I'm happy with where I am. I, I, I think that it is a blessing for me in particular. To. My, my default setting isn't to believe. You know, kind of like the opposite of Fox Mulder, right? I, I want to believe. And I have a real. Go, go ahead. Sorry. Well, no, I just want to say what you just said. And, and I didn't realize we're probably right around the same age because I watched 9/11 unfurl in my college dorm. Yeah. And, you know, first of all, I think it's interesting that you're going to college. You're learning how the world actually works as opposed to what you were. Also, by the way, 9/11 had a ton of shit that didn't make sense. We still don't know exactly how it worked. But also, like, I think what I have found in my research, and I assume what y'all have found in your research is it's that vacuum of, of certainty. Right. Sure. It's when you're alienated from the room, when you're alienated from the information, it's our natural inclination to make stories, to make it make sense. And one of the things that I, I really appreciate because I, I was the same way. Like, I was so enamored with conspiracy theories because they're fascinating. Like, not even like from like a believing at standpoint. Like, I, I'm one of those people who used to listen to Alex Jones because it was fascinating to hear someone cook. Yeah. You wanted to see, well, what is, I know what the mainstream narrative is. Like, what, like, what are, what are they saying, you know, in the mud? You know, what, what's bubbling up from these like media, these media influencers or these, you know, internet, internet, video channels that like I haven't heard from the handful of, you know, corporate media pundits that, that I watch or my parents watch or, you know, whatever it is because in a lot of ways, I think we get our politics initially, at least from our folks and, and sort of what they, because we don't, you know, your kid, you don't really care about that kind of stuff. Yeah. And by the way, the corporate media that you're talking about is absolutely actually full of shit. Like, there is an actual sort of, you know, there is a manufactured consent that happens from it. And so the truth does lie somewhere between those two lines. Sure. And I think for anybody who is interested in going deeper into this stuff, you're not exactly prepared to understand what's going on. Right. Right. And I just want to say as, as a compliment to you and your partners, I have felt empathy in the coverage of, of QAnon and conspiracy theories, which I think is important because we have to admit this isn't just a group of freaks that have like sprung up out a paper. This is a human thing that is taking place and we need to understand that it's not just isolated to like this group of people. It just so happens that this is something that naturally occurs throughout culture. Mm-hmm. We have so many sources, whether it's news, whether it's entertainment, whether it's articles, opinion pieces, analysis, you know, pumped into us in every single way through every field imaginable. Like, you know, I talk about, you know, one of the comparisons that I make all the time when I talk to like friends and family who, you know, aren't sort of like rooted in this world is the Super Bowl. Like a month before the Super Bowl, two months before the Super Bowl, you have all of these programming, this content, this media that's happening around this event, right? And in between it, they are advertising. So there is money to be made. There is money to be made about the analysis, who might get injured, what yardage they might run or throw, what records might they break, whatever it, you know, whatever it could be. But the only thing that's actually real is what happens on that day, right? The plays, what is the, yeah, what kind of plays do they make? What's the score? What are the stats? Those are the only things that are real. If you only called the Super Bowl on the day that it happened based on what was in front of you, what was really happening, you are missing out on months and months of advertising dollars and clicks. And I think that that weighs heavily on how our media interacts with us. There is, you know, when we were kids, there wasn't like a 24 hour news cycle where there was, you know, this, this rush to get information out, this rush to be the first, this rush to keep people on your site because, and keep watching, because you make more money. The longer people are addicted or consumed. And so, yeah, there's all of these elements that honestly have nothing to do with us. And if you decide to not take part in it, you know, you are missing out. You know, you are in some ways an outcast or you have FOMO or people think you're weird. You know, I can't tell you how many people like, I'll say, you know, I don't have a Facebook, or I don't really log in, you know, I don't have an Instagram account or anything like that. And they'll be like, oh, man, wow, like, you know, like I'm some kind of freak. And so, of course, you know, of course, I don't, I don't blame people or think that they're bad people for believing in conspiracy theories because I don't think I'm a bad person. And I definitely believed in some conspiracy theories and still do in, you know, in, in, in some ways. So, so yeah, I think that was always our first, um, real goal was to approach this topic from a place of compassion and sure, it's fun to laugh at like there's, you run into some wild stuff and, and as I mentioned before, like it can be really dissociating. So, or disassociating. So, you know, it helps to laugh at it and kind of find the humor in how sort of crazy this stuff is. And some of the beliefs are and some of the stories are just so out there. But at the end of the day, I, you know, I don't hold any ill will against people who are deep, you know, I mean, I guess maybe some, I mean, I guess some conspiracies are worse than others and are based on qualities that I don't think, um, you know, be long in a, in a, in a sort of hopefully peaceful modern society, but like, yeah, yeah, you know, it's yeah, I think, I think that basically it. Well, I, and I, you know, two things, one, you brought the Super Bowl. I think this is a really good example. Like, you have the biggest event in America's year, every year. Right. Meanwhile, you have the biggest pop star in modern history, who starts dating one of the players. Mm hmm. And by the way, you have corporations that are focused on that, that are showing her everywhere, they're using her music, their relationship is turned into a big opportunity for advertising and focus and everything. His team makes the Super Bowl wins the Super Bowl in a massive like comeback victory. Yeah. That seems too perfect. Yeah. It makes sense for some, and by the way, it doesn't hurt that she has supported democratic politicians and stuff. So if you're on the other side, you don't want to believe that this type of stuff happens. The good things happen to people that you don't agree with. You're being absolutely warmed by media narratives, they're taking liberties with this and capitalizing off of it. It almost makes sense to believe that this whole thing is staged, that this whole thing has been put forward. By the way, it was all to get Joe Biden reelected, obviously. Mm hmm. Of course. Sure. But when you store it. Me and Taylor are good friends. They're great friends. You know? Oh, hopefully she comes through for him before the whole thing is over. [BLANK_AUDIO]
