Look up the word "crazy" in the dictionary and you might just find an asterisk beside the definition that says, "Listen to the Subiquitous Podcast," featuring Sue Duffield, and you'll find out what crazy means. Sue's travelogue journey of unfiltered stories, impossible miracles, and faith-filled fun will be revisited right here. So buckle up and let's get going with this humorous travelogue of an unfiltered saint, Subiquitous! Before we get to the guest today that you're going to absolutely be amazed because I have loved her from afar. We're new friends, we have kind of the same mutual friends, but we're going to talk a little bit about this culture and how Carol really impacts her world and beyond. But before we do that, let me just say a couple of things. Coming ahead, Jeff and I will be at Keswick Family Week #1 starting July 7th, and then we're home for a couple of weeks, then we go back for Family Week #4 and Family Week #5 in July and August. And then we're going to do Montrose Bible Camp up in Montrose, Pennsylvania, which is a wonderful, wonderful camp. We haven't been there in years, so we're looking forward to that. And then we're back at America's Keswick for the end of August for Young at Heart Week, which is my favorite. It's the one where all the seniors and the white hairs get together, and I am part of that. I am absolutely part of that, and I love it, so we'll look forward to that. And don't forget to get on Sudafield.com for any updates that we might have also about our schedule as well as what's coming out. Don't forget "Couch to Kitchen" on Thursday night's live broadcast. You can see that on YouTube as well as also SudafieldMinistries.com and my Facebook page, Sudafield Ministries as well. We are just happy that those that still follow those online concerts, who would even know, it changed the world during our COVID year, but we're so grateful that God continues to open doors. So all that is set aside, Carol McCloud. I've learned more about Carol, probably in the first five minutes of our talking before we went on air than any press could ever give her. And let me tell you what it says to me. It says that Carol is the real deal, and I love you, Carol, and I'm just so grateful to have you on this podcast with me today. Oh, Sue, I have been so excited about this. Thank you for the invitation. It was so kind of you. Well, we actually had a chance to kind of see you when you made an appearance at the Communicators Collective group in Myrtle Beach. You did a, actually it was a video, and I heard you. You couldn't be there in person. But when I thought about that, I thought I cannot wait to actually meet you in person. This is going to be so great. And we are going to do that in November. I'm looking forward to that. Yes, I am too. I can't wait to just hug your neck and squeeze your face and look into your eyes. I can't wait. It's exciting. So we said to many people in the past who have done this women's ministry circuit and speakers for that matter that are doing what you're doing and really tearing it up for the gospel, which I love. I want to know, though, what is the one story that stands out in your mind that would be the one of the funniest things that has happened to you either on the road or on stage or in your family or whatever that we can start off right at the top with? Because you know, when I, you and I both know that humor is a healing of the soul. So tell me some of these stories that might have happened to you on the road at home or writing or whatever it might be. Oh, Sue, we could do a whole episode of my funny stories. Let me start there. Like I've got to pick and choose and so I'm going to tell you this one. So I have five kids. Okay. And I didn't really start to travel until my youngest was about 10 years old. I was full time mom hands on. So I had the opportunity to what Colorado Springs and speak at a focus on the family about what dream come true for a speaker, right? So I'm out there and I'm in a session teaching and I noticed my phone kept beeping and it was home and I thought, what's going on? What's going on? So between sessions, I went out and I listened to the voice message and it was my 10 year old daughter, Joni Rebecca, and she said, mom, things are not good here. I thought, what? And she said, dad fed us cheese curls for breakfast. So we have this family saying now, things are not good here. And of course, Craig said, what? She ran it on me. I thought I was being the world's best dad. I don't think they may have cheese curls on a Saturday morning. I think you need a t-shirt made things are not good here. Carol McLeod. All right. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. And leave it to kids. Right. I forget. I was at it. I forget where I was. I was at a retreat speaking one time and I got this urgent call from home and this was long before cell phones and you know how that would be hard. If you're on the road all the time, you get it. You get an urgent call, urgent call. I have to get out of the auditorium, go all the way down to the main office. And things are going through my mind that were just insane, who died, who has a severed arm. Right. You know, what's going on? I pick up the phone. It's my husband. And here's what he says. Hi, honey. How's it going? Fine. What's going on? He goes, listen, where's the frying pan? So listen, I'm going to tell you right now everything inside of me. I mean, it was just, it was one of those funny moments. You wanted to gently take the frying pan and tap them on the head with it. When I got home, I know it. So I don't know how you're able to juggle when you got 700 grandchildren and you got five kids. How do you juggle this ministry thing that's called overflowing living abundantly in a broken culture? How are you able as a person to do all of this? By not taking myself too seriously, Sue, by keeping the minor things minor, by setting my priorities, by feeling the call of God, I'll tell you how I do it by having a quiet time every morning before I do anything else. Well, I do brush my teeth, make a cup of coffee. And then I open the word of God because I need strength for the day because, as you said, I am an expert juggler. Even now I've had a granddaughter all morning and we've had a blast together, went to the grocery store, bought popsicles, made popcorn, and now I'm doing this. So you just, Sue, you just do what you have to do and you love your life. You love your life. You just have to love your life and say this is what it looks like at this season and I'm going to have a blast doing it. I'm going to release the tension. I'm not going to be stressed out, I'm just going to love what the Lord has put on my plate. Right. And I can even imagine that your grandkids, of course, I have four and how many do you have? Ten. Ten. Okay. Not nearly enough. I need more. Well, my kids got married too late. This is a problem. I got married when I was 19 and then we didn't have children until we were in our 30s and then both of our kids didn't get married until they're late 30s and then they had kids right away. So they're near 40. So yeah, I don't think we'll see anymore. So Carol, let me ask you a question as a speaker and a writer and now as a grandmother, has that changed anything for you and how you approach women's ministry and how you speak to them now being a grandmother versus being a mother? Well, you know, I think two things have changed for me, Sue. First of all, having my kids grow up and leave the nest has changed totally revolutionized my approach to women's ministry because before I put women in a box and I thought, if you do this, this and this, you will spit out kids who are going to love the Lord all the days of their life, want to stay close to mama, come home for Sunday dinner, worship in church, all the things, I thought it was easy as one, two, three, and Sue, it's not. That's not been my experience. And so I think that having adult kids has removed a spirit of legalism from me. I'm not as legalistic. I'm not as critical or as judgmental. I'm much more compassionate having adult children who've made choices that were hard for me. And then, you know, being a grandma, I'm a mommy. That's what my grandchildren call me. I love it. Spill bed. M-A-R-M-E-E. Mar me. That's cool. So it's the mom and little women. And so that's... Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. So that's my name. I love it. It gives me a lighter approach, more fun. And the stories that I have, it's increased my encyclopedia of stories to have these little people that I love more than life itself. Oh, and it just shows. And this is what I'm thinking too, is that in our... Let's just say it, in our more mature years, I'm probably older than you are. But we'll talk about that another time. But I do see some changing in the complexion of women who attend conferences and women who attend special meetings. I'm loving what I'm seeing on my end. I'm seeing, of course, the older women are always loyal there. But I see them taking the hand of the younger generation, where I think the middle generation has kind of got a little bit full of themselves. And now the younger ones that are coming out of college or even in high school or whatever are desperately wanting someone to lead them. And being a grandmother in this instance is almost like there is an example right there of showing love and compassion and not being so legalistic like you and I both were. And my hands up in the air, you spoke right to my heart when you said that. So when your book comes out and it's already out, overflowing is out, overflowing living abundantly in a broken culture, have you addressed any of these issues in the book that talks about something about maybe growing up a little bit in the kingdom, growing up with understanding what it's like, especially when you're going through such difficulty with the politics of life and the culture. Tell us a little bit about what's going on in that book. Yeah. So it's a deep dive into the book of Colossians, Sue. You know, I was so distressed by the culture. I don't know if you feel the same way I do. I look around and I think what is happening in our world. From entertainment to sports figures to politicians to media talking heads, there is such a disturbance going on almost so that people like you and I, we can't even watch it anymore. We can't even listen anymore. And then it became so much more distressing to me, Sue, when I saw it bleed into the church, the church is no longer standing firm against the compromise of the culture, but they're embracing it. And that was heartbreaking for me as a woman who loves the Bible, as a woman who loves good theology. And so I thought, Lord, would you allow me to write a book that would help women, especially moms, grandmothers, deal with this? And I was reading the book of Colossians, Sue, and I realized that's exactly what it's about, that Paul was addressing the church at Colossi who had bought into a worldly mindset. And so he's bringing them back to be Jesus-centered, to be Christ-focused. And so that's really the call of this book, Sue, is for all of us to re-evaluate our priorities and to re-evaluate the center of our lives. Right, right. Just a quick question here, and it's not anywhere near on anything that was given to me ahead of time, but just coming from my heart. Why do you think the church wants to embrace some of that into their culture? What do you feel like I do sometimes where you feel like they're afraid that if they don't make this inclusive way of living, that they're not going to be able to have a congregation to speak to? And it just concerns me sometimes also that we've watered down the gospel. Have you seen that too, also? Oh, definitely. Oh, I have, and it breaks my heart. So you're asking the why behind that, Sue. You know, honestly, I don't know, I have a couple suppositions. First of all, I think we do not, and I'm going to use an old-fashioned word here, "fear God," the way we used to, and I'm not talking about being afraid of him, I'm talking about holy awe and respect and honor of who God is and what He's called us to do. So I don't think we fear God the way we used to. Number two is we don't love the word of God the way we used to. We don't treasure the holy pages of Scripture. We think we have a better idea than God. We think, "Oh, the word doesn't really mean that. Oh, yes, it does mean that." And if God has said no to a certain lifestyle, to a certain preference, it's a hard no. It's not a maybe. It's not, well, in your case, there's an exception. No, if God says no, it's for your best, it's because He wants you to live abundantly and He knows you won't get there from here. And so He says, "No, that's not best for you, but we no longer honor Scripture." So those would be my two quick answers. So. Yeah, yeah. And I agree wholeheartedly. And I think, too, how many times I've been so overwhelmed by watching the congregation of women who come together that are so hungry for the word of God and so want to have answers and then go mildly from a conference or go. They do. They come wanting to receive, and yet there's not anything given. And so I have been overwhelmingly maybe more judgmental of myself in this process, but I say, "Lord, if they're coming to hear the speaker or if they're coming with a desperation in their family, then we need to offer them, not our opinions, not first opinions, seven twelve, but they really need the word of God." And that's what changes people's lives. Carol, tell us you have to have stories in your wheelhouse of where the word of God has changed people's lives. You have to have them. Yeah. Well, yes, I do. And let me tell this story. I was speaking to women's ministry leaders and pastors' wives in the state of Ohio. Oh, I don't know, maybe 10 or 15 years ago. And Sue, I was teaching on the woman with the issue of blood. Sue, how many times in my life have I got on her? Can't even count. Time's that number. Right. So I'm going for it. I'm just teaching about this woman with her issues. And of course I say, "What are your issues? What has caused you to hemorrhage for all of your life? Oh, good. Where have you left stains?" Oh, I love it. Yeah. What stains can people see in your life? What's the odor on your life that people can smell? Right. And I spoke about this woman who reached out to touch Jesus. But you know, when this woman was healed, Jesus was actually on his way to heal Jerris's dog. That's right. That's right. You know that the woman with the issue of blood had bled 12 years and Jerris's daughter was 12 years old. What? So as long as... I know. So the Holy Spirit unpacking this to me as I'm teaching never saw that before. It's odd in this moment. And so as long as this little girl had been breathing, this older woman had been bleeding. Oh. Oh. And the Holy Spirit spoke to me in that moment. Wow. I love it. So in your entire life, ministering to women and their hemorrhages and their issues. But don't forget, there's a generation that's going to die unless you get Jesus to them. Praise God. Amen. So in that moment, we sort of changed the trajectory of the ministry soo to be much more youthful. And honestly, you know, some of the women my age and older who come to my conferences, they would prefer a different worship style. Sure. Okay. That's fine. That's a bigger one because you know what, you and I are fine. We're going to go to heaven. We're serving Jesus. I know. We're going after the young ones. That's right. We're going after those little girls who are going to die unless we get Jesus. Oh, I love it. So that changed everything. But then to specifically answer your question, could I give a story of when teaching the word actually changed someone's life? Yes. I was in Pennsylvania. And I had taught on defiant joy because, you know, I've dealt with depression so much of my adult life, Sue. And so now what I've tried to do is earn a spiritual PhD in joy. Like that's fine. Can I write that down? I'm going to put them writing it right now. Write it down. Spiritual PhD. Enjoy. Yeah. And so I had taught on what it means to be a defiantly joyful Christian to have a joy that helps you defy your circumstances. And so we were having a prayer time and the women were coming forward and I prayed for a woman. And Sue, she said to me, Carol, I don't get joy the way you do. She said, I don't understand it the way you do. My whole life is a mess. And she told me you're sorry. I said, okay, if you don't understand joy, then just be grateful because gratitude and joy are not very far apart. First time I ever said those words, gratitude and joy are not very far apart. Wow. And I prayed for her and in a few months later I got an email from her and she said, Carol, that changed my life when you said gratitude and joy are not very far apart. She said, from that day forward, I've just made a list of everything I'm grateful for. And she said, Carol, the list is on ending, like I can't even be grateful enough for the things. And she said, Carol, now I'm a defiantly joyful Christian. Now I understand joy. Hallelujah. Glory to God. Only Jesus. Only Jesus. And then again, only a vessel like yourself who's willing to say, God, fill my mouth, fill my heart because I know that woman is in desperate need of a word from you, not from me. Right. And so I'm grateful that there are women just like you, Carol, that will be willing to say, you know what? It's not about me. It's about his word that's going to change you. Yeah. Do you recall, you know, Patsy Claremont, who doesn't live too far from me down here in Nashville, I've never had a chance to meet her personally. But she has something that's circulating right now on YouTube that reminded me so much of your story right now. And if you don't mind, I'll just take a second. Sure. She said one of her girlfriends had cancer desperately and her girlfriend said to her, I need a word, Patsy. And Patsy said, I was reading and one day it was just a scripture just jumped out and said, let there be light. And she said, that's it. And she told, she said, I don't know. That's the word I gave you. And she said, okay, well, I'm just all day long. I was posting, you know, all around and saying the word to myself, let there be light. She said, I went in for the MRI. And the facilitator who was doing the MRI said, what we're going to look for when you go through the MRI, that we're going to find the cancer. But we're also going to look for the antibodies that show up like light that will heal the cancer. We're looking for the light, Carol, you, your ministry is looking for the light. Yes. Every single day of your life, because you know, I know, we can't do this. I don't care if you've written 17 books now. And most of the women sit in the congregations don't care that you've written 17 books. They want to know what is it today that God's word can do for me and how you can bring it to life. I love the 12 thing. I got it written down 12 years old, Jerris's daughter, 12 years bleeding. I mean, I have taught on that story. But that's the first I've heard that analogy and that's going to linger with me. Good. Good. There's another part in your book too that is when I think about someone picking up a book. And if you're like me, I like to get the audiobook. I also like to get the tangible book to hold in my hand. I'm one of those junkies. But one of the questions is as you talk about the God given assignment that each one of us has to love difficult people, right? How can we love difficult and different people in our lives in order for us to do the ministry? Let's just face it. What goes on behind the scenes before you hit that platform to speak? I'm sure in order for you to answer this question, you've had to walk through some difficult people yourself, correct? Oh, Sue, the story I can tell you, but I won't. But the Lord is giving me that opportunity in my very family right now. My daughter has made a choice that's been very difficult for the entire family. But we've decided to love her and to love her friend. And you know, Sue, this is what I want to tell moms who are listening, grandmothers who are listening today, that you can't do it on your own strength. No, it's not about the love in your heart that you have for a person. So when the Lord brings a difficult person into our life, we must, we have to lean into 2 Corinthians 12, 10 that says, where I am weak, he is strong. That's right. And you know, Sue, this is the mistake that we've made over the years. We have allowed difficult people to bring out the worst in us, the impatience, the frustration. It's not over laughing, but it's true. What about this? What about if the Lord put them in your life to bring out the Jesus in you? Oh, now you're now you're now you're medlin now, don't be putting conviction on my heart. Yeah. So that's why they're in our life is to bring out the Jesus in us. So we have to say, I can't do my own strength. And then we have to decide it's an act of the well. It's not an emotion of the heart to love a difficult person. But we have to remind ourselves, I'm the representative of Jesus Christ on the world today to this person, and I have been commissioned by my father to love everyone who has been made in his image. If you're if you've been made in the image of God, I have been commissioned to love you. And so I confess my weakness. I ask for his strength and I choose. I say God, I can't do it on my own. So would you love this person through me? Oh, it's good. Yeah. It's difficult people. And you know what Sue, I'm one of the difficult people that Jesus loves. So I have to show that same love toward others. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. You know, in our irregular people days, right, we're reading all those books that I remember the first book I ever read on friendship, the friendship factor going back to Alan Lloyd McGinnis. We're talking about, oh my goodness, the 80s, you know, it was one of the first cultural books. I know, see, and I attended this writer seminar at Wheaton College. We're talking 1983 or something like that. Sitting at my table, think about this was Bodie Taney. Oh, my heroine of the faith. Yeah. And then another, Jan Caron was sitting there and I'm not ruling. I know. But all of these people were sitting and I'm nothing, right. I'm just this little South Jersey hick that wants to try and do some sort of writing or do some sort of communications. And I'm sitting there and we're talking about what are the connection pieces? What's it going to look like in 25 years, which was then what 2005, which I can't even imagine where we are now. But I remember speaking in that little realm there, exactly what we're talking about now. That will make the difference in women's lives, especially in women's publishing. And the big talk back then was friendships and establishing soul, iron to iron relationships with each other. Sure. And I'm wondering, just out of my thought here, who spoke into Carol McCloud's life to encourage her to be the writer and the speaker that you are today. And I know you're still, you're still, you know, moving and growing. But who are the people that, you know, are your heroes of the faith that helped you? As I look back to 1983, those people had no idea who I was, but they were the ones who encouraged me. And there has to be people in your life too. Yeah. So there are two people that I met that I had a personal relationship with. And then two that I've never had the opportunity to meet who impacted me. So first of all, so the two that I met my dad, my dad was a general of the faith. Nobody knows his name, Norman Frederick Burton, have you ever heard of him before? Oh, never have. But he would get up every morning and drink a cup of instant coffee laced with milk, five, five, 30 in the morning. And as a little girl, I would creep down the stairs and sit beside him. And he'd write out a scripture verse on a card for me to read while he was reading the Word of God. Wow. He loved missionary stories and he taught me about missionaries and about standing up for your faith during difficult days. So it was my dad who taught me to love the Word of God. And then when I went to college, Sue, the chaplain at our university married Corey Tenboom's assistant and her name was Ellen DeCrune Stamps. Oh my goodness. Oh, I've got a Corey Tenboom story for you too. And Ellen saw something in me as a college junior and senior. And she began to ask me to speak places with her. She poured her life into me. She taught me how to be a woman, how to establish a lovely home. How to be a wife. And she taught me how to love women in women's ministry. So then the two people that I never had the chance to meet who called me higher were Elizabeth Elliot and Ruth Graham. Oh yeah. I just wanted to meet those two women, but just the shape of their lives, the imprint of their lives. Sue has opened the door for women like you and I to serve him at our moment in history. There's no doubt. But okay, my Corey Tenboom's story. So as you know, Corey Tenboom was a prisoner of war for hiding Jews in her home. And so she came and spoke at the Christian university that I was attending. Because my senior year was about 1977. And the campus chaplain turned to me. I was a senior. So I was up front and he said, Carol, go get Corey's coat. It's in my office. And he said, meet us behind the stage because we have to get her out of here quickly. So I snuck out and walked, you know, up the hallway to his office and I picked up her coat. And Sue, her coat looked like she'd had it since World War II. I was just getting ready to say it. Matted gray coat with this fur collar with like chunks of fur out of it. And I picked it up and I was going down the hallway to go behind the chapel. And the Holy Spirit said to me, stop. And I stopped and the Holy Spirit said to me, Carol, put on Corey's coat. So Sue, I wrapped myself in Corey's coat. What? I was so bold. And I prayed for a double portion of Corey's anointing. And then I took it off and I ran backstage and I handed it to Brother Bob and he put it on Corey. Oh. What? And experienced this worth more than gold. What a brilliant, brilliant covering. And you know, you could almost build a book on that. You could devote a whole entire chapter of the semantics of that too. Of taking on the Rama of God in the form of a coat that we know that that woman, well, there's nobody greater. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, when it comes to the heroine of the faith, who else? Right. But Corey Tenboo. Corey Tenboo. And what that represented. Oh, what a great story. I hope right now, our listeners, if you are having the same feeling that I am right now, wherever you are in your car, if you got your phone propped up in your kitchen, you know, I don't know where you're listening right now. But do you also sense the anointing of God that Carol has just shared with you that we can take on not only the cloak of a heroine of our faith, but also let the Holy Spirit be that cloak on our shoulders and on our arms. Because what happens when we wrap ourselves in the Word of God and we wrap ourselves in the kingdom of what the reality is, is what this world, this culture has no clue, Carol, of what that moment would feel like to be surrounded by not only such greatness, but and if you were to probably have had the opportunity to tell her what you did, she probably would win. Oh, there's no big deal, you know, exactly, because Carol, why would you do that? But oh goodness, well, I don't want this to end. I really know. I know me either. And Sue, I feel like I'm just to say one more thing to you and you're allowed to say whatever you want. Go for it. Okay. So we talked about you alluded to this in your Patsy Claremont story. But I think what women want to hear is that you can make it through hard times. Sue life is so hard. Listen, I've dealt with infertility. I held four babies in my hand that went to heaven. I've dealt with depression. I spent my thirties in a deep dark depression. I've battled cancer. The doctor told me I had two and a half years to live. That was 10 years ago. And now that the gut wrenching pain of prodigal children, listen, if you're in a battle today, find a fighting scripture, go to the Word of God and put your claws into a scripture and don't let it go, declare it, memorize it, write it out, put it on the bathroom here, put it on your car dashboard, put it on your kitchen cupboards. Find a fighting scripture and let it be your anthem during this difficult time in life. Let me tell you, the Word of God will fight for us in a way that no drug can, that no person can, that no financial blessing can, that the Word of God will fight for you and help you through this battle, so find a fighting scripture and stand on it. Amen. It's wonderful. And I'll be the shameless plug here and not I'll say, especially with Colossians. Yes. Yes. Your book overflowing, living abundantly in a broken culture could be the very answer to what they're looking for by standing on the Word of God and not making any waves and not veering off the path and being extremely joyful. What was the phrase that you said your friend said, let me write it down again. You said something. I did write it. What was it? About joy. Oh goodness. I got to go back and read that. Was that when I said gratitude and joy and gratitude and joy go hand in hand. Yeah. Are not very far apart. They're not very far apart. That is powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Powerful. You are my new friend and so I owe you lunch somewhere. You sure did. Maybe in Myrtle Beach. I'll take you out the lunch. Okay. Do we get to have dessert too? Yes, we do. And I know a great place there that has some awesome key lime pie if you like here. It's just here. I'm there. Come on. Oh, Carol McLeod Ministries dot com. Get on there and get a chance to find out how precious it is and how wonderful it is to experience not only someone that you see speaking and doing the speaking circuit and writing books and publishing and doing all these things but a real genuine anointed vessel of God that cares so much about people. That's Carol McLeod. I love you so much honey. Thank you for being apart. Thank you. That was part. Thank you. a lot. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
