Why do reclines call Dr. Jean the results queen? The name speaks for itself. Dr. Jean has been helping business owners achieve and exceed their goals for over 20 years. And now, she wants to help you get more results to your business and in your life. In fact, her mission is to leave you better than she found you. Join her as she dives deep into the world of business and entrepreneurship to provide you with actionable strategies and valuable insights and compelling stories that will propel you to greater success and ultimate results. Get ready to take notes, because it's time for getting results with Dr. Jean the results queen. Hi, everyone, it's Dr. Jean the results queen. Welcome to getting results with Dr. Jean. Today, I have an amazing guest for you. I'm super excited. I actually was on his show, what was it like last week, I think, two weeks ago? Last week. Of course, you know, the way podcast works, it's going to be like four months from now, but that's okay. So I want to introduce you to Jason and Jason's going to tell you all about himself. And then we're going to have a great conversation like we always do. So Jason, welcome so much to the show. Thanks, Dr. Jean. It's a pleasure to be here. Yes. All right. So as we always do, we ask every guest the same question and we start with how did you get to where you are today? What has been your journey? Yeah. Great question. So if I take it way back, I started in marketing actually as an action sports consultant. I grew up here in California, skateboarding, surfing, snowboarding, got involved with the marketing agency here in Los Angeles, I'm Hollywood Boulevard, worked with a lot of Gen Y targeted brands. That's what millennials were called around 2008, 2010 Gen Y and saw success. There's only so many different brands and different limitations in that industry. I was moved to other brands that focused on Gen Y, millennial audiences, everything from entertainment to worked on a Snoop Dogg album to cell phones and other types of tech hardware, fashion, you name it, started getting a good feel for what was moving and all of these different types of businesses. I eventually moved to other agencies, started, I went into a social gaming startup, raised capital, we completed a $3 million round off line and I'll tell you why that matters to my storyline in a moment, but merged with an advertising sales firm, that social gaming company created a mobile advertising network and that gave me the opportunity of working with Fortune 500 brands, top 100 advertisers and really, really getting experience, rolling my sleeves up and learning what worked in terms of advertising, different budget levels, headlines, industries, got a really good sense of what was delivering, what wasn't producing, had fun doing that, but but wanted to get back to the world of startups, that's where my passion really lies and it's exciting to be part of a business's initial growth. So started my agency with my partner Tim Martinez, our COO, DNA, digital niche agency here in Los Angeles, currently Marina Del Rey, California, back in 2014, as a growth marketing firm, working with start to market businesses and full stack, not just on their advertising traffic. We found fundraising to be a common theme and started working on investment crowdfunding campaigns. I learned about Regulation D, which allowed us to target accredited investors, I was able to use my advertising background to utilize different data partnerships and reach high net worth, high household income audiences, and basically fell into this niche of investor acquisition. We've worked on over 400 of these investor marketing campaigns. At this point, those have collectively raised nine figures, hundreds of millions in capital. I've worked on other types of investor marketing initiatives with FinTech apps and cryptocurrency exchanges and real estate companies and actually brought on billions in assets under management for those groups, but it'd become a go-to company in this space, which is important as a marketing agency. You need to have your niche, something that you specialize in, we basically fell into it, but have been able to develop our investor audiences, our processes, and I get to act as a thought leader in the space and share what has been the winning formula for some of the top campaigns in the industry to date. I showcase them on my podcast, Dr. Jean, a great response from our episode of Test Optimize Scale, part of the Crowdfund Professionals Association Board, Forbes Agency Council Member, our Inc. 5,000 growing company, I'm told to mention all these accolades to show what's behind our processes and the results that we produce, but that's me in a nutshell. I enjoy it. It's something that gets me excited to get out of the bed every morning. Wow, so we really do have royalty on this because you have all these accolades. I know it's weird to say, "I'm this and I'm that," because this is not who we are. For those who are just listening to us and can't see us on Zoom, I just want to let you know, Jason and I are both wearing blue. We both got the blue demo today. We're literally wearing the same color, I'm just saying. We build trust just so you know. That's a marketing. >> Trust. Strong communication color. >> Yeah, if you don't know about colors and advertising, you've got to learn that because each color means something really important. All right, but let's go back to this investor crowd marketing. I mean, talk about Super Knitched, right? It's super neat. Who needs you? How do we find you? Why? What's the biggest thing that we need to know about? I'm so fascinated. >> Sure. Sure. So when you look at the success rates of startups, they're not great. Many fail in their first year, believe it's 90%. The ones that survived don't have excellent success records by year five. And many of those groups go under because they're under-capitalized, they don't have enough funding. And as I mentioned around 2014, when we started the business, we found it as a common theme. Groups were asking us, "Hey, can you work on the marketing section of our business plan? Can you put together an investor pitch to it? We run a first marketing campaign to later be scaled with capital as we see it working. Can you even just participate in the investor meetings for us? We like the way we talk about our growth. It'll really help out. So once I was introduced to these vehicles, these legal filings that came into effect, that allowed for solicitation targeting of investors, 2016, Reg CF, Regulation Crowdfunding, went live, so did Regulation A+ right around that time, that allows for much more than a Reg A+ today. You can raise up to $75 million per campaign year. So these platforms allow you to market to prospective investors online, offline. There are, of course, different rules around it, but running a marketing agency, we knew we could find scalable traffic sources such as advertising, outreach, build databases of highly active online investors and bring them to offerings, engage them further with content, social media posts, email, webinars, articles, videos, all different types of third party features to get more excitement around the opportunity to showcase more momentum. And with digital, the analytics are there. You can see what's working, you can replicate and you can do it at higher volumes. You can do it with more scale. So we work with groups that are raising capital and looking to use the internet to generate leads from investors and be able to close more of them than they would be able to do offline. We've found that retail investors like to participate as well. So not just high net worth audiences, but in many cases, customers of a business, clients of an organization who see growth potential, who believe the audience, that the brand is primed for more market share and higher valuations and want to become shareholders alongside the founders of the business. So in some cases, it's user owners, people who are customers, clients of the business and also want to become an owner and others, it's just larger investors who see a good opportunity, in either case, we find the best variants to test in terms of marketing. We optimize towards what's working best and rinse and repeat. I love that. Of course, you threw in a bunch of stuff that I'm like, huh, what? You know, you used a lot of acronyms that I'm sure people in my space are like, I have no idea what that means because, you know, working with startups, especially the ones that need investment, do they have to be startups or they can be, it just, it's anything that needs companies. Private companies. Private companies. In fact, public companies even run some of the regulation A plus campaigns. But it's, you know, it's, it's not fair for me to say too, because we work with some pubcos and see branding and driving traffic to, to their content funnels. It's essentially any group that's looking to raise capital and is open to digital channels, so marketing to source and nurture investors. So I have this really dumb question. Why wouldn't you be open to digital channels to build invest, you know, define investors? Are there people who are like, no, don't want that? Yes. Yes. So we've worked with various types of investment banks, real estate funds, who have seen so much success over decades and decades of traditional fundraising that doing things online can theme like unnecessary exposure and more risk. Not all founders, believe it or not, loved being on camera. And you know, I hear stories of, hey, I could call a friend and go to lunch and get a quarter million dollar check. But why do I have to, you know, run all of this advertising and outreach, only to get a small amount of return, which, you know, once you crack that code, you could do hundreds of times a day. But there are groups that are hesitant to putting themselves out there, disclosing everything about their business model, trade secrets, and prefer more of a traditional approach. Well, wait a minute, if you're doing digital marketing for investment capital, do you have to disclose your trade secrets? Not necessarily. But other way, many of these RAC/CF regulation crowd fund campaigns work similar to a pitch deck you create an offering page. Many of these offering pages live on FINRA regulated portals, the SEC monitors to make sure that there is a safety on both sides, for investors and the issuers, the companies issuing shares. These offering pages are essentially a vertical pitch deck talking about the problem, the solution, the current market landscape, the product, growth, use of proceeds, the team, a lot of the things that investors want to know about before purchasing shares. And as an issuer, you want to give enough information to get that audience excited. So if it's too vague, you may not get the conversion rate that you're capable of as a business. So you want to disclose more and more and more. So trade secrets that required at the same time, you want to be able to fill in enough of the blanks to have an investor come on as a partner essentially. Well, okay, so now I need a story because I need an example of this because I'm thinking to myself, really, okay, give me like the best example that's worked for you. And then can we have like the worst example? I know I hate when people ask me that too, but if you're true, really good at your craft, you do have a bad example, usually that's good. Sure. Sure. There's so many examples to choose from. We've worked on over 400 of these campaigns. Just did webinar last week with four of our clients who are doing very well right now. You know, I'm going to choose one that's, it's a feel good example for me. It's a company called Life Imaging out of Florida. And Tom Graham, their CEO, their founder is very proactive and he was on a platform called Start Engine 50, 60 of these live reg CF deals at a time. And what was not seeing enough traffic to his deal was not seeing enough investments and was considering stopping their reg CF even having to shut down the business because of lack of capital. We began running advertising and saw a decent return, kept increasing the ad budget, saw an even stronger return, and they were able to hit their full seven figure goal on Start Engine. And another round afterwards. And what Life Imaging does is early detection of cancer and heart disease. So have had the opportunity to visit one of their clinics that's three now in Florida, just outside Fort Lauderdale, and saw pictures on the wall of people, people, people whose lives were saved because of this, this early detection. And we were told, hey, we're probably going to go out and shut down the business, find other models. But because we were able to continue operating, you guys actually played a role in this. We would not have been able to save these lives accordingly. And they've been seeing their own growth and continuing. And it's an average of $1,000 in investment on a reg CF, maybe $3,000 on a self publishing campaign, campaigns that are published on platforms, like Start Engine, probably more of $1,000 average. So you're looking at 1,000 investors or so per million dollars raised. And from that audience, press has come for Life Imaging, just continuing to play off that example, franchisee partner and other types of partnership inquiries have come out of it, patients, they actually were the customers, clients, family members of clients, all out of the marketing push beyond the capital. So it's part of the reason I'm such a big fan of investment crowdfunding is, as a founder, you're setting the same terms for everyone to act off of. There's no discussion around the valuation. It democratizes the access to early stage capital, private capital for investors and the access to investors for issuers. So you're able to set the same terms for everybody, have everyone come in at the same levels and investing, purchasing as many shares as they'd like. And it's a big marketing push. So there are all different types of value points beyond just the capital itself. Wow. Okay. So like our listeners, I'm thinking to myself, well, I know a couple of people who are starting up companies and probably would be interested in crowdfunding, but I suspect that the listeners do too, or they might be them themselves. What is it that they have to do in order to like get started? Sure. Sure. So to be fair, I'm a marketer, I run a marketing agency. That's just one part of the equation. You would want to speak with experts on the legal side, on the financial side, but you're going to put together an audit. You're probably going to work with a portal, if not a broker dealer who gives you different tools to be able to build directly onto your site, you can have it listed on a different site or on yours. So there are different platforms. You know, there's a website called King's Crowd, which provides analytics. It shows you all of the live regulation crowdfund campaigns, reg CF, reggae, regulation A, sometimes people think I'm saying reggae music, but regulation plus, and it's a great place to get more resources. You'll see a full list of FINRA regulated portals. So I'm not promoting any specific ones. I mean, I guess I mentioned start engine. There's also WeFunder, Republic, Net Capital, Title III funds, there's a whole list of these different portals that you can speak to, and they can help guide you through the process. I would start your marketing strategy and audience building initiatives as early as you can. And I welcome a warm marketing conversation at a time. Anyone's going to touch with me, let's say I'm linked in and ask different questions. I try to be an open book. I look at as a responsibility at this point, because I've run so many of these campaigns and few people have these type of volumes. So I want to be a resource, but essentially it's dry. It's to take it a few steps further back, setting up everything on the administrative side. It's putting together a compelling offering page with a strong pitch video encapsulating what an offline presentation with you may consist of for that perspective investor. And it's then working out the marketing so that you have enough traffic going to that offering page. So even if you get a standard conversion rate, you're able to get enough investments to substantiate your capital goal. You want to showcase as much traction, as well as third party validation, social proof, people don't believe what they see on the internet. So the more of that you have, the better. Wow. Okay, because now people know what they need to do in order to see you, because I get the feeling you're not for everybody, really not. Who's your ideal client and it can't just be a startup who's like, you bring them to my house? Who exactly is the ideal person? Sure. So there's different lanes for this. It doesn't have to be just this ICP ideal client profile. But founders of companies that are doing things that are new, different, they mirror headline articles from some of the top media sources today. And they're looking for growth. They're looking to raise capital using these currently alternative vehicles. I believe they will be the primary within the next five to 10 years as we continue to move our lives further and further online. And founders who aren't afraid of being in front of the camera, sharing what is so amazing about their product and willing to test optimize scale. Not just a plug for my podcast. It's really my motto, my perspective towards marketing, towards growth. I think any groups in that space, I say there's multiple lanes because I've also seen, you know, local businesses with strong audiences, strong communities, breweries, coffee shops do very well using these types of vehicles as well. But more times than not, it is those companies that are looking to disrupt, looking to take on more market share and looking to build a strong audience of user owners, ambassadors in the process through investment crowdfunding. I love that. It's so unique and so different. I've never really heard anything about that. And again, if you have not heard Jason's podcast, you got to go because it's just, it's amazing. You learned so much and you truly are a thought leader. So thank you for doing that. I appreciate that. Thank you. It's true. I mean, I love really niche businesses because it's so fascinating. But at the end of the day, people are always like, how does he make money on that? I'm like, because he's so niched and people are so scared to niche. Yes. Jason's a great example of not being scared to niche and being very successful. I try and there were definitely fears with going so industry specific. What's the vertical slow down? They're small communities, but relationships don't work out for whatever reason. I mean, hey, we're on the front lines of performance, but no, it's been an instrumental part of our growth. We'll go to group and the strategic partnerships were far more plentiful than we had imagined. And yeah, I only picture more mainstream groups entering the space at later points and we'll have that positioning when they do. Yeah, like a blue ocean strategy, right? Which is really awesome. Can we just talk just a couple of minutes about why niching is so important? Because I know so many people are so scared to do it. Yeah. Well, as a marketing agency, you need to stand out. In fact, if you were to pull 10 different people on what marketing is, on what a marketing professional does, I believe you'd have a spectrum of varied answers. My family and friends have trouble describing what I do at times. It's not always straightforward. You then try to take an account that marketing is sales at a mass level. And most companies, if not every have sales, have marketing, you start getting the sense that, hey, this could mean many things. It could be done in different areas. If you're doing marketing for a law firm, or if you're marketing a major league baseball team or an entertainment theatrical release, let alone a home entertainment release, there's so many different things that go into a campaign and how those differ from one industry to the next can be drastic. So if a marketing agency such as DNA has an industry expertise, it could go a long way. If I had never worked on an investment crowd fund campaign before, I may not be familiar with the loss, the compliance, the things that we can say in a campaign. I may not be aware of the timelines. We've tested out different types of messaging at the beginning, middle end, during extensions, when different milestones are hit, our hit, when a new press comes out, when new partnerships are announced, when their product updates, we've tried out different types of creative during each of those scenarios. They say to be an expert at something you've had to have failed at it every way that you can. And I don't know if we're fully there yet, but we've definitely seen different types of advertisements of content perform, different types of visuals of messaging, flop, and have been able to gauge to a better degree what's around the corner as a result by similar types of surroundings and getting an understanding of how the audience would likely respond because we've done it so many times. So hiring a marketing agency that specializes in that specific vertical, that's what you get, you get individuals who have worked on high volumes of these campaigns, likely more than anyone else processes. Also data, we have audience data built the database of over 1 million people who have invested in these types of rounds. So if a experience, let's say Facebook or Google advertising buyer was to launch a campaign for the first time in this vertical tomorrow, or if we were, we'd be able to target it towards very specific people and likely see better results because of it statistically. So I think that's something that could be used as an analogy for professionals nitching down in any vertical, but that's how it's helped position us, you know, instead of being one of a thousand other marketing agencies in Los Angeles, we were one of the top investor acquisition agencies in the country, if not, you know, broader geographics, can still talk about how we ranked as an agency, you know, Inc 5,000 in Los Angeles or in the US, but it doesn't matter as much. You want to be the best. You want to be one of the best few and nitching down allows for that, with success, of course, but a much more clear path towards it. Yeah, and I really do believe that so many people are scared to niche because I think that no one will come to them and the reality is the nicher you are, the more successful you're going to be. So don't let your caveman bring it in the way of your success, as we like to say. Jason, I really can't believe this, but we've talked quite a long time and we're almost done. So I'm going to ask always our last two questions. First one is, what does, what should the audience do? What action steps should they take? Immediately after listening to you to get results. You know, I get asked the results question quite a bit and I can give you tactics. I could give you different growth hacks. I could say things like, hey, run a retargeting campaign using LinkedIn email ad placements when people show up to your site. They later get a message on LinkedIn from you as part of an advertisement. But I think that is, it's not doing the marketing practice adjust, you know, justice. It's not going to produce the same results for everyone. And fundamentally, what I should recommend is start with the strategy. You have a business plan, you have a marketing plan, great, what's the campaign plan? What's the campaign strategy? I've built a model called the eight point plan or an article about it at workshops on it. We typically do it over the course of a month, two sections a week for four weeks. I've done it over the course of a half day, four hours as part of workshops. But it's, you know, the first week of four, industry overview competitor marketing audit, the second week marketing channels, target audiences, the third strategic partnerships and creative, but for the final week is projections and activation. And it gives you a system to determine what you're going to produce, how you're going to produce it from who among the different market conditions. We talked about a blue ocean strategy. I like that. Hey, we don't know what else in the water. We're doing our thing, but at the same time, success leaves clues. And if you're getting ready to spend on marketing, you want to have at least an understanding of what other groups are doing in the space. What are they running as advertising? Who's talking about them on social media? What events? What, you know, content publishers? Are they being featured by how much traffic they're getting their site from which traffic sources I want to have a full understanding of how they're obtaining market share and test off to my scale, if I see them continuing behavior, that's telling me it's working or they're scaling it. So I want to be able to take from their findings, take from their messaging, take from there. Hey, we've tried everything we've failed at everything. This is what works for us. We're continuing to do this stage that they're at in their process. So mapping all of that out, having variants, being able to test out different channels, I see far more success consistently than I would if I were to tell you one tactic. You know, hey, you use an influencer to create UGC, use their generated content and run advertising around. It's like, okay, maybe, but definitely start with the strategy. I also emphasize if it sounds super basic, you wouldn't believe how many founders skipped this step, want to skip this step, want to test out just one solution. If there's one thing I could highlight, it would be talk to professionals and have the best algorithmic roadmap that you can towards your goals via campaign strategy. I'm going to say, yes, yes, yes, yes, amen, because I can't tell you how many business owners and I don't care if it's in startup or you've been in business forever. The strategy part, they're all like, oh, it's so boring because it takes so long and I really do believe it's caveman brain that they don't see any benefit from it like a tactic. Oh, I did something. I got something. Right. That's how we're hardwired. But the idea of sitting down and doing the strategy, I always say to people, the more time you spend on strategy, the less time you spend on tactics, the more you get the success. It's so truth. And yet people don't want to do the strategy part. It's not hard. It takes time. I'm always talking people into it, but they think me later on. But yeah, hurry up, launch this tactic. Can we be live by tomorrow is more of the mentality? And perhaps if you have a full model and know what you're going to run to which audiences and can test out accordingly and they say the real value in planning is the process. The finished result is great. Hey, this recaps everything that we've done over the past few weeks, past few hours, days, whatever it may be. It's the questions that you're asking yourself along the way. It's the considerations, the options that you're looking at and making those choices on which route you're going to go that are really the big takeaways. Oh, I would agree with that 100%. I can't tell you how many. And you've probably got this too, Jason, where people are like, well, I have an idea. I have an inkling. I kind of think about that. And then I suspect like me, you ask a couple of questions and they go, oh, I never thought about that. And you think, wait, you can't just have an inkling. If you have every step thought out, then you can just execute against it. It just drives me crazy that people can't figure that out. An inkling does not help you. It's not a strategy. Very true. Very true. And once the strategy goes live, you have to understand those are just assumptions. You need the data to show you that it's working. I've had clients say, hey, these audiences are going to be delivering the most for us. And I had to heavy up on those in the early stages, eventually was given permission to test different audience variants and through those A/B tests saw other areas, other pockets of performance that we were able to optimize towards. And again, we always have assumptions going into a campaign, but we needed data to show us what's physically working and just to scale towards. Oh, well, unless let's talk about that for 30 seconds, you know, as we're wrapping up because the idea, this is what my mother would say, it's doorknob therapy. You know, oh, by the way, I just have this one thing I have to tell you as I'm leaving my therapist's office. And it's probably the most important thing that we have to talk about, but we're leaving. So I mean, she'll just have to come back often. And that is metrics. So businesses are anti metrics. Oh, well, it feels good. No, it's not doesn't feel good. We like the creative. Did you see how awesome the video looks? That's great, but you need the metrics, the only way to measure is with numbers. And you want to have an algorithm in terms of what you're looking to hit. So for advertising, for digital as an example, it's impressions, clicks, conversions, there's associated metrics. There's repeat conversions at the bottom of that funnel is really advocacy peer to peer marketing. That's what you're looking to stimulate with all of it. But having those benchmarks to hit, being able to understand where traffic is falling off. If you're not seeing those results and focus optimizations at that stage versus to write off the whole channel or write off all of digital or the initiative, the business to be able to focus where the concentrated efforts are going next. Yeah. So don't be scared of metrics. And please do not be scared of strategy. You've heard it from Jason. You've heard it from me. So you must have a great strategy and great metrics. And if that's the homework that you have to do after this podcast, that's the homework you have to do. As far as I'm concerned, Jason's going to agree with me on that too. I'm just going to. 1000%. Yeah. Exactly. So what is your favorite quote and why? You know, Dr. Jean, I was nervous about this question because there's so many great quotes out there. And I figured I'd go with the discussion, actually don't know who said it. But if you've failed a plan, you plan to fail. There's something in the background for you on why you're afraid of those numbers. There's something in the background for you about why you're not sharing your business with everybody and everywhere you go. And if you're just looking for results, hey, you know, we're only focused on the return on ad spend. We're only interested in the results. We don't want to spend time on the strategy. I can assure you there's something in there around fear and going through the process of planning, going through the process of strategy, what will open something up for you and likely create more confidence about the route. And maybe there's more work that needs to be done, whether it's branding or product development or getting more people to talk about you and having those testimonials. But if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. There's something in the background saying, you know, this campaign's probably not going to work. Let's just try this out and, you know, move on to the next thing. I don't want to spend on this. I don't want to do that. I don't want to put the time in. So it's emphasizing what we just talked about with the strategy. It's screaming that you need those metrics and need the numbers. And if you fall short, great. Now you know what you need to change up and what you need to do to get there. Think about the best athletes in the world, the best, you know, most talented, I don't know, performers, they have coaches, they have people looking at each individual number showing where things are off, where you can improve, where you can get to the next stages. There's a lot available for you there, but you need to put in the time, you need to put in the work to plan. I know it takes you away from other things you're doing and you're probably wearing a lot of hats, but it's the difference of success and failure on many of these campaigns. And I know the consequences of that can have much greater repercussions. So put the right time in, bring the right professionals in and have a plan that you feel confident about. If we were driving in here in Los Angeles, we were driving across the country, going to the East Coast and go see Dr. Jean, I need a map, I need a plan, maybe there's changes along the way. Hey, we're rerouting weather, point of interest, whatever it may be, you can pivot. But if I'm just driving, I may never get across the country. I may give up and decide to come back to California here. So if you failed a plan, you are planning to fail. I love that. I love that whole, I love that whole thing. And I'm just going to tell you. If you don't have a plan to start or you don't have a plan to continue, you will fail. I had a coach who said to me, how we run a mile is how we do everything. So think about, like, Jason's example, you get in the car, you drive and you get lost and you go, I might as well just go home, right? As opposed to I never get off, I never leave Los Angeles. I just think I might want to come to New York. However you're going to do that, Jason, how do people find you? What's the best way for them to get in touch with you? Because I know that this has been a great conversation and they're going to want, if they're looking for crowdsourced funding, marketing, you're the guy. Yeah. Yeah. You could reach out to me on LinkedIn, probably a few Jason Fishman's out there. I think it's Jason Fishman 2 or something like that that comes up. If you're on video, can recognize my face, digitally, agency, DNA, I could put in there as well. Otherwise, digitalnishagency.com can send an inquiry, my team will get it to me with any questions if you mentioned my name and yeah, don't be bashful. I look at it as a responsibility, as I mentioned earlier, to fill in the blanks to answer these questions. And I enjoy it. You know, pour a cup of coffee, have a warm marketing conversation, over a video call. Please feel free to reach out. I love that. So now you know, don't be shy. And if you do it through his website, just mention that you were on the podcast because that will help Jason know that we sent you all to him. He'll be like, Oh, wow. So that just makes you do. Yeah. With that said, Jason, thank you so much for being a guest here today. It's been such an interesting conversation. We'd love to have you back to talk about more like metrics and planning. So perhaps you might want to come back. My pleasure. Yeah. I would love to. I am passionate about this. I was going to say a marketing nerd. I can talk for hours about it. And yeah, anytime it would be great. Thank you so much. And if you enjoyed talking with or listening to Jason today, please like us on your favorite platform and please share this. I know I'm already have three people that I'm going to share this conversation with. So please share this with people who absolutely need it. And as I often say, when you're looking for results, come listen to the results, Queen. I'm Dr. Jean, the results queen go out and get results. Thank you for listening to getting results with Dr. Jean, the results queen. If you like the show, please subscribe, rate and review on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We appreciate it. And it really helps your fellow business owners to find the show. Go to getting results with Dr. Jean.com for more information on how you can achieve better business results with caveman brain business growth system and the entrepreneurial operating system. Cheers to you, getting results. [BLANK_AUDIO]
