- One of the fifth records that Jacob did it. - Hi, my name is Jacob. And yes, today we're going to be talking to hi. My name is Johnny, Johnny Polonsky. If you don't know what I'm talking about in 1996, Johnny Polonsky released his solo debut album on Rick Rubens' American Recordings label and it was called, "Hi, my name is Johnny." And that's exactly what he was doing. He was saying hello to the world. A prolific songwriter, guitarist, multi-instrumentalist, Johnny Polonsky has gone on to release a lot of albums as a solo artist. He's collaborated and worked with amazingly talented musicians and I'm so happy to have him on the show today. We've had the opportunity to hang out just once but I'm looking forward to making that many times over. So let's get into it. Let's start this episode. It's time to talk to Johnny Polonsky. Let's go. (upbeat music) (indistinct speech) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (indistinct speech) (upbeat music) (indistinct speech) (upbeat music) (indistinct speech) Yes. Here we go. Another episode. I do love making this show, especially when I get the chance to have guests on because I get to just geek out over their music, music they love, music I love and it always ends up being a great time. But before we get into that, we wanna talk about DistroKid. You know I have a special link. If you're just now listening to the show, I have this link that is distrokid.com/vip/waterproof. If you use that link, you get 30% off your first year. 30% off is a significant amount. It's not even that expensive of a service but 30% off is gonna make it even easier for you to get your music on DistroKid which means it'll be on every streaming platform possible including YouTube, which all the youngins are watching and listening to these days. And I know some of you are here as well. So go use distrokid.com/vip/waterproof. Get 30% off your first year and get your music out in the world. That's what you gotta do. But we've Dilly Dallyed. You know, I like the Dillying and the Dallying and there'll be plenty more Dilly Dallying during the interview. I'm sure we'll get tangents. I'm sure we'll talk about all sorts of fun stuff but it's time to get into the interview. Welcome to waterproof records. Johnny Polonsky, thanks for being here, buddy. - Thanks for having me. - Yeah, man. So great to have you here. We've gotten a chance to cross paths now three times. The first time you were unawares of my presence. Second time was a crowd meeting. Third time. - Yeah. - I came down to see you play. But the first time I bet you're curious about, right? - No, it was the first time. - First time was at the loose groove record release party that was at that location. - All that location. - Yes, last October. - Yep, yep. - So this is a great kind of start to the show which is I get invited to this thing and for those who don't know loose groove records is it's a stone gossard and Regan or Regan. Hey Gar, I don't even know. Regan, it's their record label. So I get to invite and it's just a slew of bands on this label. So I'm super stoked about this intimate show. It's a smaller venue and just, you know, one after the other artists are coming up there and playing that night. It was just such a cool experience. Stone was there and then I see Johnny Polonsky take the stage and rocks it. Just gives so much energy, so much, you know, passion into your songs and performance. And I was like, why do I recognize this guy's face? What is so familiar about Johnny Polonsky and that it hits me? I'm like, oh, it's that album cover from 1996. - Yeah, that's a fun night. - It's a fun night, it's a fun night. Yeah, so that's the great thing about your face is on Johnny's debut album. He introduces himself to the world, tells us all his first name and we get to see a nice close-up shot of his face so we'll never forget him. - You don't have to check ID. - Exactly, you could have used that at any concert or venue where they're like, hey, can I see some ID? You could just pull out the CD. Here it is, here it is. And then the, so that night I saw you perform, you killed it, you crushed it, it was amazing. And then the second time, I'm at no values and I'm wandering around and by myself that day, I run into a buddy there, but I'm just kind of rolling solo and I look and I'm watching Iggy pop, I'm watching him on stage and here comes Johnny, just right past me. And like a weirdo, I go and tap him, I'm like, hey. - That was cool, I'm glad you said hi. - What are you saying about the show? - Oh man, what a blast. - I think he's what, 77, 78. - I mean, that was amazing. - That was my biggest takeaway from that, seeing him on stage was I thought, that's the goal, right? That's that like to be 78, shirtless, on stage, fearless and still just kicking so much ass. - Amazing man, I saw the Stones the other night and Mick and Keith are both 80, the band was incredible. Everybody just played great and sounded great. And you know, at one point, like, you know, what is it like 35,000 people or 40,000 people or something, the Sophia Stadium. You know, someone's grandpa is like completely just enthralling the entire crowd. You know what I mean? - I know, I know. - You're so compelling. - I've never, I've never had the chance to see the Stones play and I think I'm running out of time. I think people have been saying that, people have been saying that for maybe a decade or two. They've been like, well, they might stop touring and they're still going, but now I do feel like we're getting close to one of those years where they say this is it, we're done, we're not touring. - I mean, 80 is one thing, like 85, 86, it seems like it can be something else, but they're playing Saturday night, grab a take. - What am I doing? You gotta go. - Oh, well, that's incredible. And then the final time that I get to see Johnny and actually kind of hang out with him a little bit. I mean, he did have a show to play, but I got invited to go down and see you down. I think the Venice and you're playing with your band 70/70 with Tim Commerford there from Rage Against the Machine. And you guys also rocked it. That was a great night. - Yeah, that was a fun show. That was our second show ever. - Really? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - We just started playing out. We've been making music for a few years. Like, I just moved back to Los Angeles about six, seven months ago. I was living in New York for a while. So I knew Tim previously, like I'd lived here for years in LA and one of my day jobs was working for Audioslade, which is how we met years ago. And we stayed in touch and just started like trading files back and forth, maybe like three years ago, it's been a while. - It's been a minute. - Yeah, we only just started really playing as a band, you know, when I moved back to town in January. - Yeah, I love that your day job was Audioslade. - Yeah, that was a good one. (laughing) - That's like the line, sit around, watch Chris Cornell sing for six hours, you know? - Oh my God, what a cool experience. You know, Johnny Polonsky has been cranking out tunes, you know, since 19, I mean, God, you've probably been cranking out tunes since you were a little kid. But the world finally got to hear them around 1996 with your debut. Hi, my name is Johnny album and you've been very prolific ever since. And also just an incredible resume of all the amazing talented people that you've worked with and cross-passed with and collaborated with and recorded with, it's just incredible. You know, when I go down the list and it's just, I don't know, I'm a music lover and a music fan and to be in such good company your whole life just seems like a dream come true to be able to have that. - Yeah, man, it's been cool. You know, it's just interesting to see, like, as you, I don't know, just get out in the world and do stuff. It's like who you cross paths with. And that's one of the coolest things about living in LA for me coming from Chicago. You know, I realized like it's just exactly the same. You know, it's just like in Chicago, there's just a big community of players and community of just people seeing each other. And it's the same thing. It's just, you know, the only, the difference is it's like, it's, you know, you know, these people already. They're in your record collection. So it's real at first, you know, coming to Los Angeles from somewhere else, it's like, wow, you know, like, I don't know, each end up like working with people and hanging out with people and it's just life. It's cool. - Yeah, that's, I mean, that's, I'm having the same surreal experience in my older years now because here I spent, you know, 20 years pursuing so many other avenues, acting, writing and then just having these videos bring me to all my music heroes. You know what I mean? It's just, I just, I'm living my best life right now. You know, like if I could go back and tell 25-year-old Jacob that, you know, when he was 45, he'd hang out with all the rock stars and musicians and have them come on a podcast. First he'd go, what's a podcast? - Yeah. (laughs) ♪ Waterproof records with Jacob kittens ♪ - We do share a Chicago connection. I didn't, I didn't grow up in Chicago. I'm originally from Tulsa, Oklahoma, but in 1995, my family picked up and moved to Wheaton, Illinois. - There you go. - Yeah, Wheaton and my mom got a job teaching at Wheaton College and I, what a weird town. I don't know if you know much about Wheaton. - I've never been to Wheaton. I know the name, but I grew up in Will Met. - Yeah, Will Met. - Yeah, you're north, north up by the lake, right? - North of the city. - Right on the lake and it's the last stop on the red line, which is great. 'Cause I could get, I loved Will Met. It was a cute little town, but it was great to be able to like get into the city, you know, in August 12. You're going to like head shops and going to shows and stuff. Everyone else was landlocked, you know, I had the train. - Yeah, you did, you did. It's very cool. Will Met, I've been up there before and so Wheaton is this kind of like, it's, you know, Wheaton is Billy Graham's college and so the whole town has this kind of like, Stepford wives vibe. Like everybody's like, you know, yes, yes. And so it was a strange kind of culture shock even. And this is funny because I came from Tulsa, which is the Bible Belt, which it's everywhere there. But when I was in, when I was in Wheaton, it was strange. But I started to kind of, you know, make friends, the Naperville, the surrounding areas. And then I went to University of Illinois, but so I have a lot of ties to Chicago and I still have so many friends. So I get back there pretty often. Do you get back to Chicago or Will Met? Often do you still have friends and family back in the old hometown? - My brother still lives in Chicago and I've got a few good friends who live in the city. Pretty much everybody I knew moved to LA really. - Yeah, right. - Same, same, I don't have, I don't have a ton at all. - But I go back, I was just back there a few weeks ago and I played a show and I'm going back at the end of August to do some recording. - Yes, nice, awesome. Let's talk a little bit about, let's talk about Johnny as a kid growing up music. Did you have a musical household? Was there music always playing or did you have to kind of seek it out on your own? - I mean a little bit of both. My dad didn't play anything, but he was a huge jazz fan. My mom in the 60s, maybe even earlier, she was a folk singer, played guitar. She studied piano when she was a kid. She loved music. She was more like classical and Beatles. I always remember like news radio playing all the time. I don't remember them playing a lot of music. My dad was into WBEZ, the jazz channel would go driving on Sundays, just listening to jazz. I have an older brother, he's four years older. He plays bass and guitar and accordion and... I forget what the order was, but I think we both started playing sort of around the same time. Like I started playing baritoneucalele at nine. My hands were too small for the guitar. And he started playing, I think, maybe a little earlier than me. - Also guitar? - Well, he started on bass. But you know, like we had, you know, growing up together, like we would just like pick up each other's instruments and he had like a upright bass. I would like messed around with upright bass. We had a piano growing up, so we both like messed around on piano. And our parents had a really good record collection. I remember Wendy Carlos, like the, you know, switched on Bach, but especially the Beatles, those blue and red greatest hits records from the '70s. - Oh, I totally remember that. - That's what I really gravitated towards when I was like five. Like I just fell completely in love with the Beatles, especially the red record. It's like all I listened to, my little portable record player. And my, I had a great teacher in fourth grade, Mr. Spangenberger on Fridays. He would whip out his acoustic guitar, play us like John Denver songs and, you know, different folk songs and pop tunes. And to me it was like really incredible, like revelatory. I see someone actually do it like in front of his face. So, you know, he'd let me like pick it up and just like strum along or whatever. And then I got a guitar and then I would, I actually wouldn't buy records. It was kind of strange in retrospect. Like I didn't really buy records so much, but I would go to the music store and buy sheet music. So I had a huge-- - Really? - sheet music of just like, you know, stray cats, drowned around, you know, like all the hits. Like I grew up in the 80s, you know, like watching MTV. So, you know, just like just watching MTV all day and just like learning how to play guitar, just from watching those videos. And I mean, there's some records I had like monkeys and beetles and drowned around. And remember Billy Joel record. And like, you know, my brother had, was getting a record collection. I also remember he turned me on to Adrian Baloo. And I was like 10. That was huge. Lone Rhino, I was just an Adrian Baloo and Jeff Beck. That was getting, yeah, got really into Jimi Hendrix. So eventually I started buying records. I would go down to the record store and, you know, just like pillage, whatever they had. - Yeah. - But I remember like 20 lists. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. I mean, there's so many influences there. And if you dive into Johnny's catalog, you can hear all the influence and styles. He listed off, you know, dozens of amazingly talented artists and you can hear it infused in all sorts of different styles and the way that you play that's uniquely your own. But you can hear the foundations that were laid as a young lad, as a songwriter from all these amazing musicians. - Yeah, and I was really lucky too. Like, all the, pretty much everyone in my circle was a great player. Like some of them, like Matt Walker who ended up playing with me. - Yes, I know Matt. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And his brother, Saul Snyder. Like, those are my oldest fans. I knew them, so I was eight years old. - That's awesome. - And you know, just tons and tons of great players, like great guitar players and bass players, drummers, like it was really like in retrospect. You know, we took it for granted when you're in the thick of it and you're a kid, but like after being out in the world as an adult, whatever, it was like, damn, like we, you know, everybody here was just like a really excellent player. - Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I, we had a similarity in that my, I have an older brother is about two and a half years older than me and he got his bass first. And then I got a guitar and I also had tiny hands. I actually made a very silly TikTok about it. And, and I think that people didn't understand what I was trying to say, which was somebody who was small like me and had small hands. I was trying to learn under the bridge by the chili peppers on the guitar on my first, like, $99 harmony. And I remember feeling like my hands were gonna break. I mean, I know it's just that C chord. - That's a tricky one. - Yeah, but it was like, like as a kid, and so I made this video where I was poking fun at like positioning it and then I glanced down and I put in the video, I put guitar tab and, but I grabbed it off the internet, right? I just grabbed like a screenshot of guitar tab. And it was so funny, all these people in the comments, they were like, guitar tab online didn't exist then. And I was like, dude, did you think I had the under the bridge guitar world tab? Like just laying around my house? I was trying to, I was trying to make an illustration of like what it was like back then. But, but I also- - Gakifers unite. - Yeah, Gakifers unite, exactly. You just, you know what, there's nothing you can post on the internet where there won't be somebody who goes, well, actually, you know. But, but anyway, so I had little hands and I played guitar, my brother played bass. He didn't, he didn't end up taking it too seriously 'cause I think that if you're a bassist, you're either all in or you're not. You know what I mean? Like if you're gonna, if you're gonna be a bass player, you need to commit to like becoming a bass player or you're just kind of a casual plays along like the root notes, you know. - Yeah, but bass players, those are in demand, you know. - They're in demand. - It's like how to find. - It's such a commitment. And, and so I stuck with a guitar and played local bands and whatnot, but in Tulsa, I just, you know, being in bands in Tulsa wasn't, you know, I mean, I'm sure there was a, we were talking about landlocked, you know. We were, I played, played stuff like that. But I did, like you did, I wanna get into this a little bit, the home recordings. 'Cause I went and sought out the amazing Johnny Polonsky home recordings that are these, oh, that you've put out, which are so great. But I'm getting ahead of myself because what I wanna get to really, so we can open this door is when I asked you, I said, you come on waterproof records and you gotta tell me what your waterproof record is. And the easiest way I can short explain that to anyone, it's the record that kind of changed so much for you. It like changed the trajectory. You are a lot of who you are to this day because of this album. And so would you tell my audience what album you chose as your waterproof record? - I chose All Shook Down by the Replacements. It could be, there's so many records that fall under that, he just, I mean, you know, Jimi Hendrix, are you experienced and, you know, Nirvana, Nevermind? I don't know, there's so many, but I don't know. I chose All Shook Down. I just really, really love the Replacements. They got me back into songwriting. I started out songwriting when I started playing at 9 or 10, then got really into guitar players. And when I was 15 or 16, I heard it was, I'll be you when the previous record, don't tell the soul came out. I got really into it, like to maybe fall back and love with songwriting. ♪ No way ♪ ♪ I guess that's where I'm from ♪ ♪ It was from Canada ♪ ♪ That I best become a son ♪ ♪ And if it's just a game ♪ ♪ Then I'll break down just in case ♪ ♪ Hurry up, hurry up ♪ ♪ We're running in our last race ♪ I mean, people have been talking about the Replacements a little bit, you know, when they reformed 10 years ago, whatever it was, but I just think, for me, it's just one of the greatest bands that ever existed. And I just think that Paul Westerberg is such an underrated, incredible songwriter and singer. And that record is, that was their last record, and a lot of people don't even consider it a real Replacements record, 'cause it's a lot of Sidemen. There's not even the full band on, I think, more than one or two songs, which I get. Like for the spirit of the band, I think like earlier records like Hootenanny or Let It Be, Tim, like that's more like the spirit of like the raucous, you know, kind of shambolic, drunken, whatever. But I love, I'll sit down, like the songs are just incredible. Like I just think they're really beautiful songs. And one thing that's sort of interesting to me is that it's very much a rock and roll record. Like, you know, the Stones, Johnny Thunder's and the Heartbreakers, the faces, that kind of stuff. And I love that music too. It's usually like boogie music, you know what I mean? Like it's like just like an up vibe. And the thing that's interesting to me is like all shook down is very like melancholy, but it doesn't drag, like there's, it's like a real cool balance of rock and roll, like real rock and roll where there's like a buoyancy to it and uplifting feeling, but it's also the songs themselves and the melodies and just kind of the vibe. And it's kind of, there's a shade to it that you don't really hear done very well in rock music usually, or at all, you know? 'Cause you know, he's a singer-songwriter fronting a rock band basically, which was, you know, kind of an unusual thing. - Yeah, absolutely, and when you chose it, and I'll tell you that every guest, especially musicians that come on the show, and I ask him for one, they're like this one, but I also have this one and this one and this one. We're music addicts, we're music lovers. You're a songwriter, you're a singer, you're a guitarist. It's really hard to choose it. But I thought this was a great choice. You know, Paul Westerberg, like you said, this is the last replacements album. And really, this is where his vision as a singer-songwriter probably gets to be the most succinct and the most complete, right? 'Cause you have some of these guys coming in, but he's able to really put a touch and it is the end of an era. So like you talked about that bit of melancholy. - Yeah, I think the focus is more on the songs and on the band, which isn't, you know, it's not a positive or negative, it's just like-- - It is what it is. - Yeah, it almost reminds me of the last Pixies record. You know, the first version of the band. - Yes. - Trump Lamont, which is what I got into on the Pixies. And it's still one of my favorite records. I think it's not the best demonstration of the vibe of the band, but the songs are incredible. And the playing is incredible. Like I think the band still really shines, but to me, Trump Lamont and I'll check down and share, it's a focus on the songwriting and the melodies and less so on just the vibe of the band. Like to me, you know, like Pixies, you know, listening to like "Surfer Rosa" or something, where it's like, it's very much like a four-headed unit. - Yes. - It's just a little bit less so on the later records where it's more about the song. - Yeah. - What's a song on "All Shook Down" that really stands out to you or, you know, more than one, but is there one that you're like, this is probably my favorite track on the record. - I love "Happy Town" is a great one. I love "Mary Go Round" the first song on the record. Someone takes the wheel. Another thing I love is Charlie Drayton's drumming. He's a drummer. He's played with, I mean, back then, he was on like practically every record out. That was 1990. He played on "Love Shack" and half the cosmic thing record with "Beasty Tues." He's better known probably as the bass player and Keith Richards and the expensive winos, but I love his drumming. He plays on "Someone Take the Wheel" and "Mary Go Round." It's just a great, I don't know, it's just a great feel, a really unique feel. It's got like a classic stones vibe to it, but it's not at all retro. It's like they bring it into their own thing and it still feels contemporary to me. ♪ And I wash a fissive off the ground ♪ ♪ Mary go round in dreams ♪ ♪ Right soon down it seems ♪ ♪ When she sleeps, she's free ♪ ♪ Mary go round in dreams ♪ And a lot of rock 'n' roll records, even my favorite ones, it's just like this loose kind of, you can tell they're playing pretty much live in the room. And there's an element to that to all shook down, but there's also like a very constructed, I don't mean that in like a rigid stiff way. I mean, it's like a masterwork, like the layers of guitar that you usually find in like a pop record or more of an avant-garde thing or something, this is just a straight rock record, but it's like so full of so much feeling and the layers of acoustic guitar and different tones and the electric, it's kind of hard to describe, they just have to kind of hear it. It just really has this like extraordinary, what they ended up making was just very unique. - Yeah, it's a great choice. I love it and it really is representative of so much of who you are as a songwriter. As somebody, it's all about the songs. It's about the songs. And that has been something that has been a constant for you in your career, I believe. - Yeah, I mean, the song is the essential thing. Like to me, like you gotta have the song, but it's all sorts of things like the groove and the drumming is crucial and just how you dress a song up, what the sounds are and how the bass is played and everything, it all goes into one thing. But yeah, I mean, if you don't have the song, it's like, what's the point? - Right, exactly. - All the dressing without the Christmas tree. - Yeah, exactly. And just a treat. Back in time, we're gonna wind back the clock for those who are listening to the show and don't know some of the incredible elements of your story and what brings you into making music for a living. Is it's very unorthodox path and there's a clip on MTV, We Can Rock with Tabitha Soren and she's there and she's like, all right, everybody, you know, if you wanna make your way into the music business and don't wanna deal with the labels, you could try the path of this guy, Johnny Polonsky right here. So I wanna share with the audience a little bit about this kind of a method that we couldn't do anymore, but it's wild because you were using an idea to reach out to people, which is something that now is, because of social media, I can message Johnny Polonsky and be like, hey, man, come on my podcast. And it's as easy as that. But back when you're a teenager, you dream up this idea, you think of this concept and it changes your life forever. And I wanted you to talk a little bit about, you know, calling up your heroes on the phone. - Yeah, I mean, it was just a very different world back then. We're talking like, I guess around 1991 when I was 17, 18. Like back then, it was all about, there was a very clear distinction between major labels and indie labels and mainstream and underground college radio. Alternative, it wasn't a thing yet. - Right. - College radio was, you know, like REM and the bottle of surfers or whatever, anything that wouldn't make it on the mainstream radio, which is all, you know, Tom Petty and I don't know, just other pop stuff. And, you know, it was very, in my mind anyway, it was like, you know, MTV was God and Rolling Stone was God. And like, there was only certain sources of information. You know, there was no websites. There was no, there was very little information about anybody. Like all you could get really was just whatever was printed in these magazines. So I don't know, like, you know, musicians and bands and artists to me like had this real, like larger than life feel. And it just felt impenetrable. Like, how could I ever possibly be part of this? And I knew, I mean, there was also kind of an unspoken thing where like, well, what you do is like you write some songs, you put a band together and you start playing shows locally and you get a mailing list. And then you make a demo. And then you find a manager and then you get a label and hopefully there's like very clear ladder success. - Right, right, right. - And I was like, I don't really want to do that. Like, I just want to go like straight to the top. Like, I don't really want to like have to do all the other stuff. - Makes sense. - And like, skip them all. - And also, like, I just, you know, like, I think it's really natural. Like, if you're really serious about doing something, if you're really passionate, like you look for mentors, you look for people who can, you can learn from, you know? - So to me, it wasn't networking, really. It was more just like, you know, one of the first people I called up was Mark Rebo. He's a guitar player he played with. I mean, so many people, but I was really in love with his Tom Waits record, Frank's Wild Years. - Yes. - And I just really loved his guitar playing it. And now he's a legend, you know, but like back then. - Then back then, yeah. - You know, people didn't really, you know, other than a select, you know, group of people, he wasn't very well known. And this was back in the days of home phones and, you know, 411, you know, you dial directory assistance, you pay $1.50 or whatever. If you give them someone's name and what city they were in, they could tell you their phone number if they were listed. So I started doing that. I was like, well, you know, these are just people. Like, they've got to live somewhere. I'm sure they have a phone, you know. - This amazes me. This is, I think this is one of the coolest ideas ever. And I mad at young Jacob for not thinking of the same thing. It's just brilliant. It's brilliant because this isn't, you're not talking about calling up slash, you know, you're talking about the guy who's like in the band for the music lovers, the smaller, the more, you know what I mean? Like the guy who's like probably pretty stoked that you called him, right? - Yeah. I mean, I was trying to call everybody. Like I would look up like Tom Leitz or whoever. Like people, there was definitely people unlisted. I called Kurt Cobain was listed for a while. - Was he really? - Yeah, when he was living in L.A. - Yeah. - I talked to him, I'm pretty sure it was him. It was like, "Hey, is Kurt there?" It's like, "No, click." (laughing) - Yeah, that sounds like him, right? - But, I mean, so I would call it like Mark or Reeves Gubrels is another early one. He plays here right now. - 10 machine and now plays with the Cure. - Yeah, yeah. I was a huge 10 machine fan, still am. And he ended up playing with David Bowie. And I just was just a huge fan. Like I said, like there was no, you know, maybe a guitar world article every once in a while, but really there was not much information. So I was just really curious and I had a thousand questions for all these guys. And I had a feeling that, you know, that being, you know, young and precocious would kind of serve me well. I wasn't trying to be manipulative about it, but I was like, "No, it'll be easy." You know, I'm sure it'll be stoked to have like some 18 year old kid from, you know, the suburbs of Chicago call up and ask him questions. 'Cause I was genuine about it. Like I really wanted to know, you know? So I would just ask them all about how they did this, how they did that. How did you get the guitar sound? Like, you know, and I was making these tapes. You know, I had a four track cassette recorder. I was making the, I didn't think of them as demos. I was just recording and like, I was gonna go down to Kinko's and, you know, get some artwork and make it into a cassette. You know, look like the real thing to me. You know what I mean? - Yeah, totally. - Sending it off to people. And that was another thing was that like I knew, at the time, I couldn't, I wasn't sure if they were good, but I knew they were funny. So I knew that, you know, that goes a long way towards- - Yeah, they are. They are, they're, and I was blown away because when I listened to The Amazing Johnny Polonsky, which you can go find, they are, they're funny. And they're actually for the lo-fi tech that we had back then, they're really well recorded. Like I was kind of blown away 'cause I did the same thing in 1996. I brought out a buddy's task cam and I remember recording, you know, some guitar parts. I mean, I obviously didn't know how to use my pedals correctly 'cause I listened to it now. And it's just like, it's just like hissing. It's like I'm playing and it didn't have snakes. - Everything sounds, everything sounds so clean and perfect and computer perfect now. I kind of miss when things were a little shitty sounding. - Yeah, it's true. - It's true. - You know, it's just a different aesthetic, you know, like back then, you know, like a demo sound like, yeah, if you heard someone's demo, it usually sounded like a demo. Like it sounded like not that great. - Right. - And the performance wasn't that great. And the record was like when you really like made it, you know, all come together and sound very professional or whatever. And that can work too. Sometimes like I love, you know, XCC records or the Joshua Tree or whatever, but I love bands like Pussy Galore and the Butthole Surfers and you know, where it sounds, you know, quote, bad. - Rough. - Yeah, rough. - I think it sounds interesting, you know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And this kind of sounds. - I think the kids of today too are kind of chasing it. I have two kids and they're a little, my teenager. They're kind of obsessed with analog and like things, the way that used to be in physical media. You know, they're trying to replicate like VHS and like how it looks and they, you know what I mean? And I'm like, I'm sitting here and I'm watching my son create this video. And he's asking me all his questions. He's like, he's like, dad, so like when you inserted a VHS tape and it went to the blue screen and he's like showing me and I'm like, why do you want to emulate when the tech was low? And he's like, 'cause it's so much cooler. - And I was like, yeah, it's so cool. I read an interview with Brian, you know, a while ago where he said that the things that we end up finding interesting about each medium or each piece of technology are the limitations, like the way the glitches happen or all the things you just described. - Yeah. - You know. - Yeah, I think that if you grow up in a world or we get to a place where everything is perfect and you know, there's not an error and it's all. - It's boring. - It's boring. It's to explain. - Yeah, everything is done to a click track and it's chopped up to the grid and everyone sings perfectly in tune. Like that's one thing I love about Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. Like they're a real lock band. - Yes. - And all of the last ones left and they're in their 50s and 60s and, you know, you go see them and their time is all over the place in the most beautiful way and it's like they listen to each other and they respond and, you know, Nick Cave doesn't sing in tune. Like it's great. - Yeah. - Are you gonna be weird if you sang in tune? - Yeah. - Like just to be peers from the gun club, I love the gun club. Like he never sings in tune. Like it's part of like, it's like kind of tears your heart out. - Yeah, it's the appeal, it's the appeal of it. - Yeah, and the replacements too. That's one thing I've always loved about them. It's like, it's very certain aspects are really, it's like super powerful and tight and together. And then there's so much that's just wild and like off the cuff and Paul Westerberg misses the notes or he, you know, skips a line or whatever. You know, it's like, it's very in the moment and of the moment and just, that's how it should be. It's like, it's play, you know? It should be something new every time. And I love all sorts of music. Like I love, you know, electronic music and things that are computer perfect and done to a click. But I also really miss people getting up, you know, just like two or three or four, however many human beings just getting up with their instruments and the music doesn't start until they physically attack their instrument, you know? - Yeah, absolutely. - And whatever comes out is how it comes out. And even if it sounds the same as sound check or the night before, like it's not, it can never be exactly the same. Like it's always changing a little bit. - Yeah, it's allowing, you know, it's an art form and we don't have to be so precious about it. It doesn't have to be delivered to people in this way that you go. I can't have any mistakes. It's like, no, that's the whole, you know, if we're heading into this world of AI, you know what I mean? It's like, we gotta allow and love and embrace every single human error we make 'cause that's what separates us from the machines. - Yeah, I don't think mistakes are even mistakes. They're not even necessary to be bad. Like to me, the real mistake is when you can sense consciously or not that somebody is like embarrassed or ashamed that they didn't do something that they thought they meant to do. Or you know what I mean? Like it's the thing that comes through. - That's a good point, right? It's not a mistake, it's what we deem a mistake, but it's, you know what I mean? It's not a mistake. - It's just an event that occurs. - It's just an event, yeah. - So you call these guys, you make these phone calls, you connect, you get some mentors in your life and this gets your music in front of some people that can make some introductions and really, you know, one of those being Frank Black, Black Francis, Charles, the man of many names from the Pixies. - I met him through Reeves Cabral's. Reeves was really instrumental in hooking us up. I mean, he hooked us up, you know, he, they were friends and he knew I was a huge Pixies fan. - Yeah. - And he gave Charles my stuff and he started calling the house. Like I remember like being at home or whatever and I would hear the phone ring and then like half an hour later, my mom would be like, "Johnny, Charles on the phone for you." And like they've been talking, he'd been talking to my mom for like 20, 30 minutes. - That's so great, that's so great. Just my mom and Frank Black catching up, talking about casserole dishes and probably, yeah. So that was truly incredible. Like, I mean, I'm forever a Pixies fanatic, but especially back then, I was like 18, 19, 20. That was just my favorite band in the world and to have him calling my house and to be gushing over the tapes I was sending him. It was so, it was so inspirational and really like, like cool, you know. - Yeah, I think that he got me set up with his manager at the time, this guy Ken Goes, who was the original Pixies manager. So Ken became my manager, I came out to LA, I was living in Chicago, I came out to LA where Frank was living and he produced a demo and that got me signed to American pretty quickly. - Rick Rubin, Rick Rubin everybody, American. Yeah. - Yeah. - Wow, and so this is, that's where it begins and then you've had so many different experiences as a musician from the albums that you've released from the people that you've collaborated with, bands like Pusifer, you've worked with Neil Diamond, you've worked with, I mean, the list just goes on and on. I was curious, 'cause you might be surprised to hear this, but I love Neil Diamond, I grew up on Neil Diamond. Is he a great dude? - Yeah, totally, that's great, that was incredible. Yeah, I mean, this was when I moved, this was like 2004, I think. So I've been living in LA a couple of years and my day job was working over at Rick Rubin's place just like, I mean, he was bringing me in to ostensibly be an engineer, but I knew I didn't wanna be an engineer. - Sure. - It's just not my thing. But you know, of course I said, yeah, I'll hang out. - Yeah. - Or you know, just like do whatever duties there were. So one week I'm like setting something up in his living room and then the next week they asked me to go to Neil Diamond's studio and he was recording a new record and it was me and Ben Monttensch and Mike Campbell from Tom Pudding the Heartbreakers. - Nice. - Smokey Hormel playing bass, he's played with Beck and Tom Waits and incredible player Matt Sweeney, played in Zwan and you know, Queens is like a - Yeah. - Iggy Pop and it's like an incredible band and Neil was super cool 'cause I grew up on Neil Diamond too. Like I love those records, especially the '60s records. - Oh yeah. And yeah, there was one take, I remember, we were all like sitting in a circle, we were playing at the same time and it was quiet and I just kind of absent mind like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And he turned to me and go, was that spring time for Hitler, you were just playing? I was like, yeah, Neil it was. So I was trying to see if I could give him to say the word Hitler, you know. I don't know, it just seemed like a surreal thing to have. - Seemed like a fun game to play. - See, can I make Neil Diamond say Hitler? I think I can, spring time for Hitler. For those of you who don't know, I grew up in musical theater as well. So that's from the producers, an amazing musical, which is absolutely hilarious. - No books, it's comedy, it's not fascist. - It's comedy, guys, it's comedy. And we need comedy now more than ever because things are so-- - Because of fascism. - Yeah, because of fascism. But yeah, Neil Diamond, that's one of those things that I have yet to make my love of Neil Diamond Instagram real or TikTok video yet. But I was a big deal for me growing up. My mom would play like the jazz singer and I remember when America would come on and-- - Come on, the rocks. - Yeah, love on the rocks! Ain't no surprise. - That is. (laughing) - Yeah, totally. - He has this cadence, this (grunting) you know, like a-- - Super dramatic. - Oh, so-- - Oh yeah, and to hear that in my headphones, like I said, like we were all tracking live. - It was so surreal. It was very kind of discombobulating at first. - Yeah. - The first time we were playing the first song, it was like, okay, you're just in a room with dudes, just playing music, you know-- - Just a pan. - But it's a real, it's like looking over in the corner and there's Abraham Lincoln or something. - Right. - The person you knew is a real person but to see them in the flesh. But no, it was super easy. You know, everyone was a great player and it's just easy. That was kind of a surprising thing, like working with cats like that. It's just like, oh this is easy. - Yeah, now this would be bad form for me to ask. I was gonna say, anybody who worked with this has been hard but you don't want to say that, not at a podcast. - Yeah, but I mean, they're generally just, in my experience, like the people, it's not about fame or whatever, but like people that get to like a certain level, it's like, I don't think it's a confidence thing. - Yeah. - They just do what they do and they know what they're good at and they know their limitations and they just focus on their strengths and there's not generally a lot of insecurity or just, this is just what we're doing and you just do it and you know, what's the big deal? - Right, right. - Yeah, but it's a totally different environment than a place where there's a lot of collaboration, a lot of creativity, everybody's working together, so. - Yeah, when you're focusing on the music, whether, you know, it's just your homies or, you know, it's some big celebrity or whatever, it's like, you're just playing music. - Yeah. - You do it or you don't do it, you know? - Yeah. ♪ Waterproof records that take a minute ♪ - Well, you put out, just, I mean, you've put out a lot of records over the years, but I was gonna say just in the past year, in 2023 you released an album and you just released another album this June, but they were kind of recorded, like the release is the reverse, really, because the one that just came out is the one that took a year and a half to put together and has, you know, all sorts of high production elements to it, and the other one that came out first was more just a bunch of, like, recorded stuff that you had made at home, is that correct, between the two ones? - Oh, the sorta, yeah, I mean, the one that just came out was finished before the one that came out last year, and that's 'cause, I met Stone Gostard a couple of years ago, I guess maybe two years ago or so, the record that just came out was mixed by Alan Johannes, it was an incredible-- - Oh, he's great. - Yeah, he's a friend, an incredible musician, he's put in Queens of the Stone Age, he had a great band called "Eleven," he spoke with everybody, you know, co-producer and co-writer with Chris Cornell and Mark Lanigan, and just a great songwriter, great singer, great musician, anyway, so he mixed the record when I was thinking about who to release it, I asked if he, I think I might've brought up loose groove, he's like, yeah, no stone, it's like, okay, cool. So he just gave it to Stone and the stone was into it, and that was it, so it was real simple. And so Stone asked if I had any other songs lying around, just out of curiosity, and it's like, yeah, here's a playlist of, you know, 60, you know, 'cause I've just got tons of songs. - Right, right. - So, you know, for what, I don't know, reason particularly is just like, would you be down with just, you know, putting it together, another record, and just seeing where it leads, like, yeah, sure. So I had this one finished pretty much, the one that just came out, but so the one that ended up coming out last year, yeah, that was made in like three weeks, you know, some of the songs were already recorded and ready to go, but a lot of them were just, there's a, I'd say maybe a third of the record is iPhone demos that I built on, you know, just like me just like seeing and playing into an iPhone and just layering instruments on top of that. I went to the studio in Brooklyn when I was still living in New York, and it's recorded drums in like 11 hours or something like that for like pretty much the whole record, and it just like blazed through it. I like doing that, you know, just like, it gives like a real spontaneous feel, I mean, if the material calls for it, like if it's the right thing, it felt good, just like, you know, it's very diverse record, and some songs are really like kind of intricate pop numbers, and some are like real, there's, you know, a couple punk conno-tunes, and it's very rough around the edges, and so some stuff have been lying around for a while, but for the most part, I'd say like half three quarters was brand new and just recorded for the record. So that ended up coming out last year. Rise of the Rebel Angels, that was the album. So if you guys are listening to the show and you're queuing these up and you're wanting to listen, that's Rise of the Rebel Angels is the album he's talking about that was last year. That's right. You know, the throwing together through weeks and new songs, some older songs, and then the one that came out in June is called Supernatural Radio. Yeah, and Rise of the Rebel Angels, I played pretty much all the instruments with the exception of two songs, and this new one on Supernatural Radio, it's got a ton of guest musicians. It just sort of ended up that way. It wasn't intentional. Ben Monttensch plays keyboards and organ on one song. Steve Jordan, who's now playing drums with the Rolling Stones, he plays drums on one song. Jack Irons, original founding Chili Pepper drummer, and he played an 11, he played Joe Strummer, he plays on half the record. It's one of my favorite, they're all one of them. These are all like my favorite musicians when I was a teenager, which is kind of strange. I didn't intend on it being that way, but. I love that it happened that way though. That's great. Yeah, once sales plays drums on a song, he's the drummer on Lust for Life, Iggy. Yes, yes. On my record, and from finishing, yeah, yeah. He's on Instagram, I hit him up, you know, he was down. And one of my oldest friends, Scott Tunis, who played bass with Frank Zappa for the last seven years of his life, Zappa's life, he plays on a couple of songs. He's an incredible bass player. And Alan Johannes plays on a few songs. There's a string orchestra, and I got this guy to arrange the strings. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. I listened to the record and at Ether Street, I was like, wow, this is great. I loved it. I loved it. I was literally, I was sitting there. The whole record is great. I recommend everybody check it out. But I'm sitting there. I'm doing, I'm working, and Ether Street comes on, and I get in that track, and I'm like, whoa, dude. I looked over at it. But you're weak. (laughing) Cool. Yeah, yeah, it's good. ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ But you're mission ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ World of pain ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ But you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ ♪ I have you move ♪ - Great stuff. - And that's the Jordan on that track, very good stuff. - Musicians want to play. It doesn't matter if they've got like a big pedigree or whatever, like generally, if they're not busy, you know, and you've got some bread. - And they want to play with you too. I mean, that's the cool thing. It's like they're, you're as respected and liked and want to work with them and they want to work with you. And it's just an amazing time to, when people want to make great art together, that seems to be a unifying thing. It's like, yeah, man, why wouldn't I want to get together and put out some great music with this guy, you know? - Yeah, absolutely. And that's one of the upsides of technology, whether it's, you know, pro tools on your laptop for 25 bucks a month or, you know, social media, like you can reach out to people and, you know, it's harder to get a response sometimes because, you know, you're not picking up the phone and saying hello. - Right. - But, you know, somebody's interested, like you can connect with people and, you know, it really is like a world community, you know? - Yeah. - At least there's an opportunity to, like, reach out to somebody and see if they're interested in doing something collaborating. - Yeah. - You know? - Yeah. - Especially with, like, music being so demonetized and the real true believers and people who love it, you know, you know, know the value of community and of collaboration and doing things for fun and because they love to do it. And maybe there is some money exchanged, but, you know, 'cause everybody's got bills and, you know, whatever, but, like, you know, it's really about, just like, this is what we do. You know what I mean? So let's do it, you know? - Let's do it. Why waste any more time? We gotta, we gotta do it. - Are you gonna be playing live off of these albums around town or are you gonna band? - I'm gonna play in Los Angeles with my band on Thursday, August 8th at The Mint. - Awesome. - I gotta be there. - Cool. - I'm gonna be there for sure. - Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm working on, I'm booking maybe a solo tour for the fall. So there's some things, you know, brewing. - I'm glad you got a band. I'm glad you got a band because, man, at the loose groove, you know, when you're back and supported seeing you in '70s, '70s, when just hearing that fullness, hearing your ideas come to life off these albums on stage is just a beautiful thing. - Thanks, really. - So I'm really excited about that. - Yeah, I like doing growth. I like the intimacy and the freedom of just playing solo, but it's always like having a great drummer, like a, you know, good band, you know, that you can really freak out. I love that. - Yeah. And all your years of, you know, travels and playing live, do you have a, do you have like a crazy story, like you can't believe you ended up in this situation and you're standing there one day and you go, what is my life? How did I get here? What's happening? There's probably more than you could even count, right? - I got hired to play in a pickup band at the, the Playboy Mansion. This is like 15 years ago. - Got it. - And Perry Farrell was there, super drunk, and we just invited him to come up on stage and sing the Mountain song. - Yes. - It was surreal. That was, that was incredible. - That is, I mean, I could choose. - It was like a, a happy Perry Farrell. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You checked all the boxes of my crazy story. Playboy Mansion, check. Perry Farrell, drug, check. Mountain song, check. That's a great, that's, that's fantastic. I have, I got to go to the Playboy Mansion once, not for a party. I just got to like tour the premises, but the thing, now I think that things have been like past hands since Hugh died. I don't even know what's going on with it anymore, but the, I remember the thing that was so surprising to me is I got to go down and see like the, the grotto and the pool and the, there was like a weight room, and it was all just a time capsule of the 1970s. Like the carpet was green, the walls were brown. It was like, it was like the place was frozen in time. - Yeah, I didn't get to go inside, but look, I got that vibe too, just walking the grounds, and there's peacocks everywhere. - Peacocks, yes, yes, yes. There's peacocks where I live, which is crazy enough. In the town that I live, there's wild peacocks that roam the streets where I live. - Oh, cool. - Yeah, yeah. - Nice. - Yeah, yeah. But anyway, well, Johnny, this has been like the best time ever, and I, I've got to come see you play live, but we got to hang out. - Yeah, me too. - Yeah, absolutely. And for anybody who wants to meet and connect with their famous musicians, remember my process. You go see them at a record release party, then you run into them at Iggy Pop, and then you go see them in Venice play with their other side project, and then you have a pretty good chance of befriending a pretty much anybody, especially Johnny Polanski. - Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your age. - That's right, that's right. That's the takeaway message. Well, everybody, make sure you go after this show and go look up his extensive catalog. Go all the way back to those demo tapes and end to these latest albums as well. Supernatural Radio is fantastic, as well as Rise the Rebel Angels. Such good music, and excited to see what you do next. I know you're never going to run out of songs. You write songs in your sleep, it seems like these days. - Yeah, I mean, you know, just having moved back, it's been a little bit slow, just kind of re, you know, just getting hit in the ground running, building a new life in LA. But yeah, I'm writing again. I'm going to do some recording at the end of the year. And Stone and I are going to the studio to work on some stuff. I don't know what we're going to do with it, but if it'll be like my record or something different, you know, so there's that. I've got another record that's pretty much in the works. So we'll, you know, something about it. - Not surprised. He just released an album last month and he's already working on the next. So no, no, no rest for Johnny Polanski. - Gotta keep going. - Gotta keep going. - Thank you for having me, Jacob. Yeah, man, I had an absolute blast and we'll talk to you soon. - Right on, later. - I love this show. I love this show. I just, I have to pinch myself. I have to pinch myself because you just get the opportunity to meet and hang out and have a great time with amazing people. And I just feel like I could do this forever. I feel like I could keep making this show just to get the opportunity to meet creative, like-minded people that love music and just have this desire to put good things out in the world. And that's exactly who Johnny Polanski is. And it was just a fantastic conversation. It was great hearing about his influences as a musician, as a young guitarist, a musician, the replacements. And then I just love the way he took that, that gumption, that spirit, that go get him spirit to call people when he was a kid in the Chicago land area to just call up those people and find mentors and get himself plugged in. And he just keeps after it. And again, you should definitely go check out Supernatural Radio and Rise of the Rebel Angels and a bunch of his stuff. It's all out there streaming. It's all great. And you can go listen to those early demo tapes that are actually pretty cool. So, Johnny Polanski, thank you so much for being on Waterproof Records. Thank you guys for being here. And you know, I am such a proud member and partner of Pantheon Podcast. Pantheon has taken me under their wing, taken my show, and put me among so many great music podcasts, but just between you and me, I'm the best one on their platform. So, you know that, I know that. We don't have to tell them that, but, you know, they should recognize that Waterproof Records is the elite Pantheon Podcast Show. I do love being a part of this network. And also don't forget to use my distrokid.com/vip/waterprooflink. You get that 30% off. So, thank you once again. Please be telling all your friends and everybody you know about this podcast. You know, I can't make this show the greatest podcast in history without your help. So, I need you. Yes, you. You have to tell everyone. You have to say, what are you doing not listening to Waterproof Records? Do you know how many times I post an Instagram or a TikTok of a clip from the show and people go, I didn't know you had a podcast? I haven't so many times. No matter how many times I put a video out there, like, you have a podcast. So, I need your help. You're the street team. You're the Waterproofians. You're the people that are going to help me get this show, spread to millions of listeners, and then I can go on tour and I can be in a city near you and we can do this together. So, let's make it happen. Let's make it a reality. Hip, hip, hooray. Alright, everybody have a great weekend and thanks for joining me on Waterproof Records. We'll see you next time. ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ [BLANK_AUDIO]
In 1996, Jonny Polonsky greeted the world with his debut album 'Hi My Name is Jonny' on Rick Rubin's American Recordings Label. Since then, Jonny has continued to be a prolific singer/songwriter by writing catchy melodies, releasing solo albums, and collaborating with artists like Neil Diamond, Frank Black and Johnny Cash-- to name a few. That's why I was happy to invite Jonny on Waterproof Records this week to hear about the albums that changed his life, how he used the telephone to track down rock and roll mentors, and why it's always about the songwriting.
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