Under The Lid - Inside Pro Cricket Podcast

Bulletproof – Under The Lid With Ollie Pope

Join Jack Brooks and Katherine Sciver-Brunt for Under The Lid - Inside Pro Cricket Podcast - with special guest, England Vice Captain Ollie Pope.

Ollie discusses James Anderson's farewell and what it's like playing in the same side as a cricket legend, his own captaincy challenges with Surrey and of course - looking ahead to a Test Series against West Indies and Sri Lanka.

Tell us what you think using the #UnderTheLid hashtag on socials or email hello@underthelid.co.uk

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Duration:: 57m
Broadcast on:: 04 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

(upbeat music) - Handsome man is back. - I think it's a bit there, tell him off. - That's severe, Padra. - You're not on any treadmill. - That was a brutal onslaught. - Five miles inside the mirror, four miles out of blood, that's the basic. - I used to question that all the time. - Which is often great for the bush. (upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to Under the Lid, the Pro Cricket Show with me, Jack Brooks. - And me, Catherine, Silverbrandt. - And as always, this podcast is brought to you in partnership with the PCA and the Cricketer. And there's only, I don't know how many hours to go, how many hours to go, about three hours to your birthday, Bronte, is it? - Oh, Christy, already. You know, as well as I do, A, you don't mention it, and B, we don't like couch anymore. I think past 21. - And it's important as well for me. - Shush. Excuse me, Dally, I don't look at day over 21. (laughing) - Unfortunately, it is a few hours to my 39th, to be clear. - Any exciting goings on for it. Tomorrow, was it just a cup of tea? - I wish I could say I had something good to do. But there are things that I need to do tomorrow, that just take precedence in the world over the birthday. So, but at least I'll be with that. She's lurking in the background over here. (laughing) - Planets, grades for female. - Yeah, she comes first and I must follow around that sort of sheep. But also getting to commentate, so that's fun. But in terms of the actual birthday, not that exciting, I'm afraid, so sorry. - Bit like me a couple weeks, but just very low key, and rather forget about it. - Yeah, I had a couple of exciting things the other day, though, so really fun watching that block, 10 balls, to make sure a bush slash my bougie got our first ton in any form. - Yeah, I saw that. - Any form? - Would you have done that in the same situation? It's obviously great for the bush. - I was so-- - But would you have done that the other way? - I mean, I was praying that would, 'cause, I mean, the crowd, I think she would have been hung on and quartered, yeah. It would have been an old school situation, but she managed to block out even a full toss. I don't know how that's possible. I feel like instinct would have set in to baseball that over the pavilion, but now she managed it, so, all good. Have you had, how's the calf, more importantly? - Good, yeah, so I've got calf strain from playing club cricket on Saturday. Old man injury is back. I've not done it for about five or six years. - Did you do like a little hop as well, like a, ooh, ooh. - I didn't even do it bowling, I was batting, so I'm making so many runs, that in so long. I had to get a runner out, and basically said to the opposition, I wouldn't be able to bowl. And I didn't, and we lost the game, another loss for the bamboo, but unfortunately. So, yeah, not ideal, hopefully it's just low grade, 'cause I can still drive and walk around all right. It's just, yeah, I've got to watch it, I think. And it was my little boy's birthday last week, so that was good, and I was with Sarri, obviously, for three days out of the four of the second team game, which was great. - Sweet. - And that sort of lead us on to who our special guest is this week as well. - It is, we've got a test match coming up soon, haven't we? We've got the fine Lord's test match. Everyone's buzzing about it, I'm gonna be there. I'm not even, I'm panning that off for it, that's how much I wanna be there, you know? Jimmy's last. So, we've got a few days away, we thought we'd bring in one of the stars, obviously. We're gonna bring in the vice captain, Mr. Oli Pope, so I'm looking forward to it. - We only get the stars on here, don't we? Before we get him in, just remember you can send in any feedback, any good feedback, bad feedback, any questions for us, by using the hashtag under the lid, or email us at hello@underthelid.co.uk. So, what do we know about our guest this week, Runti? - Well, I think we all know how good he is. Obviously, being vice captain is no mean feat, so there's always very good reasons behind things like that. And he's 196 match winning innings against India, over the winter was, you know, something to add that to. So, I'm properly dying to get under the lid of Oli here and get the juices flying from the test in a week. So, let's get under the lid. Welcome to the show, Oli Pope. (upbeat music) - Hello guys. - Here he is, all right, Lege. I forgot to say, Runti, do you know he's got a cute little dog as well? - Yeah, do not, every time someone comes on, they've got a dog, they belong on here. This is mostly about dogs. Can we have a visual? - He's asleep down here. - Jackson, come here, he'll come and say hi now, he loves a bit. - Jackson, Jason. - Jackson. - Jackson. - Jackson, right, there you go. - Is he a beater? - There you go. - Oh, now look. - Oh, Jackson. - Hey, come here, what's this? Come here, come here, come here. - He's not even out there, he just woken him up. - There you go, handsome, look at him. - He's a dog and a retriever. - Fox red golden, what a beauty. - He's a good boy, and I think for a bit of that, aren't they? - He's gorgeous, what a dog. Dogs are just like, I posted something today, actually. Do you like Ricky Gervais? - I like Ricky, yeah, I love him. - He's not everyone's cup of tea, but I love him, and some of the stuff he says. And he loves dogs more than anything on Earth, even probably most of his family and friends and loved ones. (laughs) They're just like, nothing on this planet, are they? They just love the Earth, no matter what. And they're not mine. - No, that's the best thing about him. - You can boil his head, talk it about, pick it. - Hello. - Well, here, Jackson actually was, I gave him a bone from the butchers yesterday, and I think it was too big, and I got back, I had a, I got a week off this week before the test, and he was sick on my bed, which was hard for me. - Oh, no. - From there, too much bone marrow, which is a sentence. - Cheers, dad, have that. - Yeah, yeah, exactly. Seems good as gold now. - I always get worried about giving Bella a bone. She's a fox red Labrador, not a golden. She's still a terry, but, (laughs) yeah, I always worry about the tauge butcher bones, but they say they love them, don't they? - Oh, I love them, yeah. - Anyhow, let's crack on with these questions. You've got, so you've got this test matching in a week or so. How are you all feeling about the start of that? Are you looking forward to it? - Oh, yeah, actually so excited. I think this, obviously India was sort of, not, didn't end as, as we wanted to, after such a promising start. And it's been such a long break, such a busy test schedule this year, but it feels like we've not been together as a team for so long, and we haven't, probably as long as a gap, as long as a gap as it's gonna be. So, I think we have a lot of fun as a team, and it's just, yeah, I think there'll be, I'm personally really excited. So it's been love and play for sorry, but just ready for the test summit to get cracking. - Yeah, sorry, (beep) Danielle, what, so successful? You lot just snarled to do it, don't you? I bet everybody's mega for you in every week. And so there's plenty of nerves and excitement. What about, how do you think Jimmy's feeling, 'cause it's his final one in it. Is it gonna be, we're gonna be sad? I mean, surely privileged to be part of that. - Yeah, it's gonna be, I'm buzzing for the week, and I'm sure he is as well. Like, it's exactly what he deserves. He deserves, obviously, hopefully it's not too green, but he deserves this week to be about him. I mean, what a legend of the game. I remember when I first came into the test side, he was probably the one with a guy, I was pretty nervous to sort of meet. And he was the one guy as well, when I was, I remember standing out at Deep Cover, it was my debut at Lord to get to India. And then I just remember thinking, "Jeez, last year was when I was in the Snips." And I'm like, "Jimmy's running into bowling, "I'm in the Snips, I'm 19, I'm 20 years old, "playing a few games." I was like, "If I drop it here, yeah, I'll be." That was what's first, and the second thing I think about is how cool's this, but now what a legend of the game. He'll be emotional, I'm sure, but he's gonna love every minute, I'm sure. - What do you think of when you think of Jimmy Anderson? What's the first thing that comes to your mind? - Getting older on the golf course, sorry. (laughs) - His belief in his bowling, we are Jim. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - 'Cause he's, I've seen so many clips and recently he's really getting on with this golf game, but I don't know who's better, he seems decent. - Last time, he was probably slightly, but I'm down off, I'm off one now, so, and I hope he won. We've always been the same, yeah. And we were both three when we last played, so I'm hoping he's a one as well, because if he's off three, then I feel like he'd just been. - I feel like you're gonna spank him this one. He'll be getting his stiff, playing after the 10th match. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's stiff and. - He's getting right there, yeah, 100%. Well, he'll one of all like 50 over 60, just to make the most of his lacquer. You're gay. - That too, right. - So, how will you remember Jimmy once he's done? I know I'm making it a bit about Jimmy, and just have a little chat about him, but a lot of us don't know much about Jimmy, he likes to keep himself to himself in a bit of a sarcastic fellow, but quietly just goes about his business, lets his bowl and do the talking. What were you guys all sort of miss about him the most? - I think his, I mean, his first year's competitive edge, I think is why he's been able to do it for as long as he has, which has been kind of like, he gets out of himself up for these warm up games, as if he's like, and that's just why he's been able to be so good for so long. So I think that's one thing, he's actually, he wants the best for everyone around him as well. I think Kim and Brody, I think for us kind of young guys, even both bowlers, but for us young guys coming into the team, they're generally always pretty good at like, I can feel how much they wanted to say me and Zach, for example, to do well, like during ashes and stuff, so they'd always kind of try and pull us aside and talk about the mindset of what the difference is between international cricket and county cricket. So I think that side of things has been a class as well, and I think just his need and his want to get better every single training session is just pretty impressive. I mean, everyone's had those sessions where they, to be honest, they can't really like, I guess be bothered. At some point in your career, you've had it, but I've just now, I mean, that 41 years old, even every time he pulled on a shot in India, he's just wanting to get better every single session and given a 110% and they'll bowl up. He'll bowl it out of a spell late in day three, and then he'll still charge to the fence and dive full stretch to get the ball. So I think that's a pretty good way of describing what pain for England, I guess, probably means for Jimmy. - Yeah, fact that you've sorted one from everyone and that even when they're, you know, 18 or 41, we'll go on in for doing that. So with Jimmy stepping out, you've got a fair few stepping in like, I know there's a lot of chat around him. What do you got? What do you, well, do you personally make of like the guys coming in, I think, well deserved, my own opinion, but it must be, I don't know, you're excited, obviously a bit sad for people like folks who invest their missing out, but a new opportunity for us. - Yes. - How are you feeling about it? - Yeah, yeah, of course, I mean, the guys I miss that, it's always so tough whenever you get dropped, but there's always, there's always an opportunity to, I guess, get back in, so that's what every player strives for. But then, yeah, the guys coming in, I mean, that Jamie Smith, he's been, he scored another 100 yesterday, he's in overnight. I mean, I've watched him back this year with the red ball and the white ball, he's just been playing some seriously good cricket, he's making it look pretty easy, so long may that continue into the test summer, he's a seriously talented guy, and I'm sure over the course of his, hopefully what's a real long test career he's gonna share exactly what he can do. And then, some really exciting guys coming in to the squad, I mean, I know Gus Atkinson, another sorry teammate, I mean, he's bold as well as I've seen him bold at Worcester last week, and bold quick, with good skill as well. So this opportunity's coming in a great time from an end, Dylan Pendleton as well, I mean, I've not played against him in recent years at all, but I think whenever you sort of click on, we'll ask the kind of cricketers, like, you get out or you're waiting for that, you're watching them be playing, you're watching the wickets around the grounds as they fall, and then whenever I've seen him bowl and he's taking wickets, and it's like, it's just going through so nice, and he's getting the good players out, and that's always a pretty good mark. The guys who are getting the best players in the opposite team out there is, yeah. So, no, I'm really excited for them as players, and there's obviously a bit of a look into the future, obviously with the lashes looming, and obviously a year and a bit away, but also we've got a lot to look forward to and enjoy for us, so nice and exciting time for the testing, and yeah, the boys are buzzing. - Yeah, 100%, mate. I've been really lucky the last couple of months. Since I took this job on, which is now maybe even busier, to be involved with Surrey, and seeing a bit more of you around the track, while I'll spend more time in the second teams, I've not really seen you, but see the likes of Jamie. You got the U, a few of these other new young guns up close, and some of the special players like, it's an incredible environment, isn't it? How much has that helped you going back into the England team, especially after your injury issues, well, your shoulder complaints? Or is it like going back to Surrey, and then flipping back into England? - Yeah, I think the transition, I mean, this always, it's never easy, kind of just hopping between two teams, because it's almost like you want to feel like you're a Surrey player when you're there, and in England, hurry there, but naturally you're always going to have an eye on when the test summer starts, and when this is, it's trying to almost find out just to purely focus on the Surrey stuff while it's there. But I love going back and forth, sorry. And then we got such a talented team and get to stand the second step for guys, like Downward, Jordan, Clark. It's got some good young guys, like Tom Law's coming through in Gussie, and it's just playing in a winning side, like it has been over the last few years, it's just, yeah, it's been here. Yeah, see you there. - It's been good fun, but, yeah. - It's easy, isn't it? - They do all right. - They do all right, yeah. - No, the boys are in a good place. And it's just, we have a lot of fun, I mean, talent aside, 'cause it's a very, very likable change in room where, there's no sort of characters that aren't quite fitting in or anything, it's just a group of guys who just sort of maul pretty well together and have a good craft on the pitch and enjoy each other's company away from it as well. - Yeah, 100%. One thing I noticed since being the environment is how relaxed it is. When everyone just knows what they're doing, they'll turn up, give it all the train sessions or like international practice, as well as as you'd expect with some of those players. So what's captaincy, your captaincy journey? How have you enjoyed it? Have you found it at Surrey? And obviously you're a bit of a leader now in the England environment with the VC tag on. What sort of captain do you think you are? And obviously it's probably a little bit easier at Surrey at times with the players you've got at your disposal, but you really enjoyed that? - Yeah, I did enjoy it. Yeah, it was good fun. I think first game was found tough work 'cause I hadn't played the T20 game in a good year or so. But even then, I'd only played a couple. So I was like, right, it was five outside the room or four and I was like, oh god, that's the basics. What are the rules? - I used to question that all the time. I can be sure. - I think the hardest thing was, is actually when they start on the scoreboard, is remembering how many, it's something you've only got to count to four, but how many overs everyone's born. So that was probably the hardest bit to deal with in the start. But now I enjoyed it. I think by the end of it, the last three games, I felt we really clicked as a team. I was kind of like, right, well, Spencer, he's a guy. I'm gonna get two or three out of him with star. Gus is gonna bowl one early and Sean Abbott's gonna come on at Jordan Clark when we got some good spin option. And it's just, at the end, it fell for the last couple, two or three games, it felt easy. Until then, I was like, right, this is, this is, I feel like if it goes well, I'm a genius, if not, I'm an idiot. But then really, I was kind of just like, you know what, you make some right decisions and get lucky and you make some wrong decisions and get unlucky as well. So I think that's just how it went. But I think as a captain, pretty chilled and captain experienced bowlers, I was very like happy to bounce off some ideas. And I still, I used my batting brain to give me some ideas of what the batter might be doing, but I was pretty happy to chuck in the ball and go those two out, happy, sweet, and then bowl you think. And then if I saw anything and I was pretty, I felt, I hoped you'd say the bowlers would say the same, I think I was fairly laid back and chilled. And yeah. - Have you ever had feedback from the lads like, well, how are you, like, how are you going? 'Cause I found that really helpful. - Yeah, so I, I went on Sean Abbott a little bit. I said, I actually said to the guys before, I said, look, and I was completely honest. I said, 'cause I feel like when the team loses a few games or when things don't go well, then that's when the bickering starts behind your back. And I was like, lads, all I said at the start in the team talk when I was announced as captain was lads. And I want anyone, if you think I'm doing a rubbish job, just come up to me and tell me and I'll learn. I like to think I'm a quite a quick learner. So rather than don't bitch about me behind my back for the two hours over coffee with the lads, you can do that as well, but just tell me what you're saying. 'Cause I'm, I'm learning on the job as well. So I was pretty, I was pretty clear with the guys that just be, like, if you think I can be better, just be honest. And then, I think they went down the bitching room because I know it came up to me and said, (laughing) - It must be going smoothly, it's going smoothly. - Yeah, yeah, all that. And we're topping the table. So it was good while it started, but the rains are back over here. Crystal and now I think so. - Yeah, you can chill now mate. You've done your job, hand it back to the captain, go up, up your coffee. - Yeah, take the VC roll back now at doing new stuff. - Exactly. - And how about your own form, are you happy with where you've been this summer off the back of, obviously we're very busy, tough winter at times, but Hyderabad, let's talk about that, 190 odd. One of the greatest endings while in Englishmen abroad is certainly probably in India. Talk to us about how special that was for you and how much confidence you took from that. You know, even where you are now. - Yeah, I think that's always, it's a weird one because that India trip, five tests is such a long time. If you do that in the last day to win, and then you kind of get back on the plane and you're like, how good is that? You're taking that every time in this series. But it felt like, I remember getting back to India, I'm just feeling pretty flat and deflated at the end of the trip. And then whenever people who have the trips, when they sort of, whether it's a teammate or someone randomly walking past and go, well done out there, I was like, I was kind of like, well, I'm like, it just felt like such a long time ago. And you kind of, when you're losing, 'cause we shouldn't feel like we shouldn't, but we lost the next four. So it just felt like such a long time ago. So it was frustrating. But like, that's always gonna be a memory that will stick with me forever. That Hyderabad ending is, I think, it forever can give me confidence in my game against sort of the spin, especially against the best spinners in the world and on a tough pitch. So it can prove to me what I can do in the tough conditions. And yeah, it's just, I think it's about, we're about sort of making memories as well. And I think at the end of your career, when you can look back on it, that's always gonna be sort of a special five days. I mean, the feeling of getting the runs was brilliant, but the feeling of winning that game was even better because it wouldn't have mattered for anything if you don't win. And I know people say that in this, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not a bet. It wouldn't have meant anywhere near as much if we didn't win that tough. So yeah, something that will sort of live sort of with a fond place in my memory, but yeah, something that can gain confidence from as well. - Yeah, definitely. That would be living rent free forever, I think. Playing India is (beep) hard. Like, I don't know, like, as a scene bowl, it's probably one of the worst things you can choose, but that is probably second and then spin your laughing. But as a test batter, what are like, let's say, the three key things that make you great at batting in that, you know, five-day format? - Yeah, I think, I think one's definitely, you know, your sort of technique only because I'd say, you look at the best four batters in the world, or the fab four, look at how good all of their defenses are. I think it's having a good defense. I think that's a bit of a cliche, but you know, that's something you can have through sort of play a white ball cricket as well. So I'd say that's one. I think the temperaments, the next thing, because I remember, like, even this year, we start the season, you're playing with some sort of lot of big swinging pitches and not a nip off the wicket. And my game didn't actually feel in a great place for the first month and a bit of the season, 'cause I was too worried about, like, trying to cover all my waves of getting out. And then I went and played and the T20 stuff and came back and I was like, wow. I actually thought, I know I didn't get the runs I would have last week, and I actually feel as good as I felt now after a block of T20 cricket, because you play on a better pitch is where the ball's not sort of swinging and moving and nipping around the quiet as much, so you actually can trust what it's doing and actually get yourself in your head in the good positions, I think. That's the technique and the temperament in just being able to trust yourself to back long time, not just getting to 30 or 35, I've actually just trust in there. I'm here for a long time. And then the last one that I reckon is, I think the art of sort of playing three, four, five day games is, you get two cracks in the game and I probably fell early on in my career, I fell into the trap of sort of almost putting everything in my first game and I can either feed off that in the second innings or like, and I had my record and it's still not great and it's still something I'm working on, but it's bouncing back from the low ones as quickly as you can, I think the best players in the world, that's one of the best at in test cricketers. You can almost, you know exactly how they're gonna start their innings every time, irrelevant of the form they're in or what they've done in the first innings, it's gonna always look the same. So yeah, probably putting the low ones behind you, I think, and that is the best cricket as well, I think especially in Red Bull cricket. - Yeah, I'm sure and that's taking notes on you. (laughing) - For me, nice to be honest. - And I'm serious now, like, I call you a young player, but you're not, you're a really experienced player, you've still got plenty of time ahead of you, but for Tahira, a modern player, talk about their game is gonna be underpinned by defense, particularly the longer format in a day in an age when everyone seems to wanna biff it and all the youngsters wanna go out and whack six isn't everything. Actually, if you still wanna be the very best ever in the world or be very successful over all formats all the time, having the basics and the defenses are gonna be the most important thing. Still. - I watched Joe Root, we trained at the NCPC, oh, we used to train at NCPC all the time when we knew out and he came for like a free hour night and we were like three hours. Is he feeling all right? And then we watched him sort of like go about, he's obviously a bit of a freak in a Joe and he went up his business and I swear to God for the first hour, that's all he did. There's just, he was slung balls on a f***ing good length, new balls, and he's just like getting, it's practicing getting in and behind the ball, in line with it, and leaving well, defending well. And obviously in a game, he wouldn't just do that for an hour, solid, but like it's the technique and shape that you get into, isn't it? - Facing up to those, they're not shined away from him 'cause they were coming down but I basically feel it too. And he's bouncing and they're minging. - Yeah, I was saying that that's like the best players. I think Kane Williamson is a good example as well. - Yeah. - Those guys, they're pulling on T20 players well but everything was in and the extension and the defensive shot, almost like the, you punch in and it goes before you clip it but you're in pretty much the same position as you would be for a defense and then you just break your wrist at the end or something. So that's why, that's why I'd say that. - Yeah, in fact, I love it. - I was saying that road to his turn. - Yeah, no, and then it went on from, it basically just went on from there as you've just said. So there's, there's nothing behind the madness. Last summer you missed a load of a fair chunk of a shoulder injury, how was that cracking? Now is it still bothering you if you're feeling pretty good about it? - Feeling good about it, it's still sort of throwing. So I've done this one twice and then I thought, I'd even out a little bit and do this one. But I've had now both big surgeries done with both sides. So they're stable, it's just trying to, yeah, just trying to throw sort of- - There's a diet. - It's got a power back in there. - When you dive, put your offs like, make you a bit tentative, right? - I'm a little bit cautious but, I mean hence why I've done it three times now, I'm obviously not cautious enough. I kind of trust what the surgeon said. - You must have done (beep) loads of rehab a bit. - Ah, yeah, that was the most tedious bit. But yeah, it's fine, like, it's part of, I think you guys know what it's like. It's part of cricketers, you just learn to play through it a little. I mean, it was a bigger injury in the time that I couldn't play football bad. - Dork is too old broken bowl, isn't it? (laughing) - Yeah, exactly, exactly. You don't mind playing through a bad pain, do you? - Yeah, well, it's, yeah, I mean, this is freaking me out always, I used to live on all this. This is Nats, I'm at Brazil on the proxy blind up by me. (laughing) My liver's better off for a hot, not a hot toddy 'cause my dad used to crush paracety while I went to that. But boiling water and a bit of squeeze lemon. We grow that liver. - Oh, yeah. - Might wanna cut this time. (laughing) So, yeah, you did miss out on the ashes, too, didn't you? - Yeah, absolutely, thank you. - Oh, it was gutting, I think it was just some, like, I played the first test, fine, well, it was a great game, should have felt like we should have won it, second. And I just remember walking off the pitch 'cause I knew why I'd done, then, 'cause I'd done the other one twice, so I was like, oh God, here we go again. But I just, it was, and I didn't even, then about twice in the Lord's test with my shoulder out of place, and it was just like, it's just annoying now, 'cause I feel like I can't contribute to the game that I'm playing, and as well as I wanted, and then went up to, and had the scan, and went up to Yorkshire, way and clear results, and just, it's just flat like you. I think ashes as well, you spend so long, so long preparing for them. You talk about these years cycles, and then suddenly you get injured. But, unfortunately, it's just part, part of sport, and hopefully it doesn't happen again, but, like, blessings have happened, haven't they? - Yeah, but it's, I guess, the lack of control. You've got over it when it happens, and it's the worst thing sportsmen can go through. Lack of form is inevitable, and you can kind of control it 'cause you can still work at it. Mostly for batting, just hit as many balls you can or take a break, but with injuries, it's just like, you can't do anything. The control is out of your hands, and it plays mind games with you, and then you just always have that with, am I gonna play again, regardless of how small the injury is? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Me, personally, that was one thing I just could never enjoy, or, really, I battled at times with when I was injured. Everything else would crick it for me was easiest 'cause I just tried to enjoy it, but injuries just did my head in. - Yeah, and I think as well, trying to get back into form is actually harder than, after long periods out, it's harder than people think as well. You start forgetting what your methods are, how you sort of go about your evenings the night before, and all these things, 'cause you just don't think about it for what, six, seven, eight months? - It's like ring rust. - They get your guard. - The box is there out like two or three years at a time, sometimes, boxes are mental for how long they take, just on, well, health reasons, it's like six months per fight anyway, but yeah, ring rust, a bit annoyed, and we're all really million people when we're doing rehab, 'cause it's so shit. - It's boring as well, it's boring. - Mine no man, it's a knife, but it's made for me. - That is the worst, no, no, I feel like I almost fell for the people around me 'cause I was probably the worst person myself. Just for a while, especially while you can't do your exercise and stuff, like, I think you realize how much you missed, like, I missed the bad days as well, that's what I found, I was like, I'd rather take my pair in India that I got and have a feeling after that game, and then you get to have a few beers and try and sort of, I'd rather, I'd still rather that than be sat on the sofa, being injured back home, 'cause at least it's an experience, not just suddenly-- - 100%, you're still able to do your job at the end of the day. That is the one thing you want to, and you're able to do, and you can't do it, you probably have to go for a lot more dog walks, and your Jackson probably adds some serious workouts. - He was buzzing, actually, he was so happy when I saw him. - Can I keep the shoulder going? - He saw me go down, yeah, exactly, he saw me go down, he was like, "I've got a dad for five months now, buzzing." (laughing) - Mate, we're gonna have to talk about Stokesman, McCollum, and his whole basketball mantra. What's the influence of those two, if any influence do I'm guessing they have, on you as a person, then you're batting, and also, the conditions, the test side, you're waiting straight in at number three, didn't you, which you haven't really done at all for sorry, had you? - No, no, so I think, I think Baz is, I remember him sort of chatting to me before, just after I got picked, and he was like, "Oh, mate, my job's not to tell you where to stand, "tell you where your hands go, your head's going, "just to make you feel 10 foot tall and bulletproof." That's his 10 foot tall and bulletproof, and I was like, "Well, that's good, babe, "you're not kind of thrown away secretly, "you're gonna be like feeding me lies and stuff, "just to make you feel good." But he's got, the way he deals with, and man manages people, he's just remarkable, 'cause we spend a long time together as a team, and I think just the way he manages just to bring, he's a massive optimist, firstly, so I think he sees that in a lot of aspects of his life and the way he coaches, so I think that definitely helps. And I think just, I don't remember, the one example was at Lorde's, and I was like, I got out cheaply in the first game I played under McCollum in Stokes, and I was like, I didn't really play any shots, I got like 12 or 35 or something, and it wasn't like he'd told me off, like, what are you doing? But I was like, he's like, "When you've got a few short, wide ones, "and I'd just left them." And I was like, I remember saying to him, and the Lord was back, and he was like, "I just felt a bit up and down, "I didn't want to get an edge on one and stuff." And like, looking back on that comment, and then he was like, "Nate, who cares?" You're going to, every chance that edge goes over the slips first year, and it's inside edge past the keeper for four, and I think that for me was quite a good example of his mindset in terms of like how he sees things. Don't fear getting out, you're going to get out somehow, try and make as many rounds as you possibly can, and you'll ride a bit of luck all the way, and you'll have a bit of bad luck, but it'll all kind of look after itself in the long run. So I think having those kind of mindsets allow you to firstly bounce back from low ones, but also it's just keeps things nice and simple. Whereas in the past, it's almost felt like some of the codes to be like, "Your heads here, your hands are here, "you're doing this," and really it's like, "Yeah, your technique's there, it is what it is," but it's not the reason I've shined the ball, it's because my head wasn't right. I was probably too worried about getting nicked off, so I ended up shinning one instead, so... - I found like... - And that's probably the biggest. I found that a lot of people I've seen get out early is because they've had something in their head, so we all know it's like 70% mental in it, so because the thousands of repetitions are already in here from a really young age. So when I've seen people get out, I can literally watch someone in a few minutes, even just the way they walk out to the cruise, and I feel like I know they're gonna get runs that day or not, and it's like based on just what you know, it's like you poke it, you blame these pokey four defenses, pokey whaffes outside off, and you just think, (beep) within 10 seconds I'm like, it's just a bit unsure of himself, or... And I guess trying to eradicate as much of that as possible, you're already 50% ahead. So it's like, I just love that about him, and I hope like obviously making you vice captain at choir, young age, you're built to follow that way, 'cause you just said you love the way they man managers. I guess both of them man manage really well, and is that something you'd, if you'd get the opportunity to be in captain, would want to take into your own sort of role? - Yeah, absolutely, I think you kind of forget what... I've been on tours where it feels like it can almost become a little bit selfish, and then going on to Stokes, I think what he's been good at is he's had a lot of time for everyone, and he's been a real good listener since he's been captain as well, whether that be on the pitch, like ideas, but also away from it, he's normally pretty good at... Look, we've got Vad some youngsters in the team, we've had Bashir, and we've had Raihan, obviously, coming and moving, sub-continent, and I think the fact that those guys have come in and both taken like, wickets, pifers in their first one or two games, I think that says quite a lot about the way he's managing, so yeah, if it came about one day, which would be awesome if they did, then it's definitely something that I can sort of learn from and feed off, and it's just making sure you don't get too sort of insular and worried about Raih, I've got to be here and there, so it's trying to find a way of having as much time as you possibly can for every man in the team, and including, especially, I guess, the young guys coming in, 'cause that's the hardest part you can start out, your first five or 10 games, 'cause you feel like everything's about to happen there, and you feel like, oh, if I don't do well here, I might get dropped, but it's trying to find a way to, like you said, that 10 foot tall and bulletproof, that feeling in your first few games and bring that out as quick as they can. - Yeah, I think the best captain I've ever had have been people that make me feel 10 feet, but also like, Robbo was so mind-melty, that he knew how to manipulate the very best out of me, might be slightly dodgy in the way it went about it, but it worked, but in terms of captains, it was, they were a little bit empathetic, they made me feel like I was the best bow in the world, and that they trusted that what I wanted to deliver was, well, that was good enough for them, and if it didn't go right, it's okay, like, that you do, you know how to do your job the best, that's why you've got the ball in the top of your mind, you deliver what you think, and it's like you're batting, you go about your batting the way you always go about it, and whatever happens, it's okay, like, but just giving you the confidence and trust to go and do it, but you've got to believe it, you can't have a captain that says that, but you know for a fact, they don't believe any of that. (beep) It makes such a difference. - Yeah, I don't know, so I think we've, trying to find a way of almost detaching yourself during the games, especially test matches from the result at the time, because it's such a can be a long way away that, and game, or the runs or the wickets, and trying, I think that's kind of the odd crickers, and like, like what you just said there, it's like, and if it doesn't go well, who cares, we're getting ready to go in it next week. That's not, obviously we care, if you lose, you care, if you do bad, you care. Obviously, there's no, I don't need to tell people that, it's just, it's a way of helping us get over it and get ready for the next one as quick as we can. - Yeah, it's more like, yeah, like I said, it's less the care, it's more, I'm not going to think any less of you, that's what I mean. Right, I'll still be here at the end of the day, I still think you're (beep) mint, and that's, yep, if you get caught down long on, that's okay, if you get out poking, it's not okay, situation like, speak to what you care. - Yeah, yeah. - Love it. - 100%. - What about, Ollie poked the white ball batter mate, obviously the England team have just come back from the World Cup, didn't win it, for a bit of a, or even if you're torn up with what their standards would have been like. How close do you feel to getting in that team, and does it, you also feel like a million miles away from it when you're not in it, because it's arguably the hardest batting lineup to get into in the world, isn't it? - Yeah, I guess it's felt, I've not even, over the last until sort of this winter, I've never really even sort of thought about it, because like you said, it's been pretty, pretty stable for a long time. And yeah, obviously I've made it into the squad for the West Indies, all the sun, I think that was. First squad that I've been in, didn't play out there, probably for the best, 'cause I can throw, didn't feel like I could throw very far. - Yeah, so I was hoping to be a slip for 50, there's like a lot of lies where everyone, and then, so yeah, I mean, it's something there, I've not played a lot of recently, managed to get eight games on the spin in the T20s, which was quite rare, and it'll break while you're in the test team, so I feel like I found some good rhythm there, I played some good knocks, and it's just something that I wanna, I'd love to get into that Wibel side, love to play more franchise cricket, if the opportunity came about, I'm just some Wibel cricket as well, I mean, I'm never gonna do anything while I'm on the test side to detriment that, and sort of have a negative impact on that, but I think the way we kind of play now, and the skills that you can learn from the Wibel guys and their franchise staff is can actually really develop your game in the test arena as well, so I'll be definitely keen just to try and, try and get into as many of those squads as I can. - Oh, well, she like, you can't be that far off the class you've got, so we do get to see with some one day or T20 caps at some point. Now, this is a podcast in the social with the PCA, and you have played a decent amount of county cricket this summer. Now, Joe Root's been quite vocal this summer about the schedule, and play welfare and need to be prioritized, and quite a few players have actually been speaking up about this summer, which is great from a fellow player or ex-players point of view. Do you have any particular views on the scheduling, or is it just one of those things that, you know, are you going to please everyone, and you've just got a perk with it, sort of, why do you sit with it? - It's a tough one, isn't it? I mean, we talk about it a lot in the sorry changing room, and we've got guys who are dipping in there, and guys who are just playing county cricket, guys who are playing all summer, and then just for the county venue and franchise stuff. So, it's a hard one because I chat to some of the guys who just play, say, in the championship side, and then they're not making the 100 team, and aren't playing franchise stuff in the winter, and they're like, well, of course, we don't feel like there's an issue, but I guess for the guys that are playing 100, champ, franchise stuff. And then, so it is tough, I think, for me, I'm always careful as to how I sort of speak about it, 'cause I miss it this week, 'cause I'm, 'cause I'm fortunate to have an England contract, so I can sort of choose. So, I'm always, sort of, slightly careful on that front, but at the same time, I do realize that we went three T20s in four days, I had a day off while we traveled to Worcester, so we played on the Friday night, it was the last of the three T20s, traveled to Worcester on the Saturday, trained that afternoon, and played on the Sunday four day, and then, so there are times at which it feels like it's potentially too, sort of, just compact. Whether there's anything they can do about that with the amount of different formats is always a tough one to say. But, yeah, there's probably times where the scheduling is probably starting to compact, but, again, like I said, I probably haven't felt the effects of that quite as much just being on an England contract, but chatting to the guys, I think that's how they generally feel, but then, again, some of them spend their winter in the gym and want to just play, play, play for six months as well, and then they're happy just to write, "This is my time off, this is where I can get fit, "get strong, enjoy a bit of family time," and then, be recharged, ready to go again, come April time. So, there's always going to be arguments for, I think, different sides of it. - I think a lot of it is individual, but I know the bowl is from a bowling point of view. It's so hard, and you almost can't commit to all formats which is the hardest thing as well, 'cause you're always trying to think, "Right, what do I want to do? "Do I want to go down the Red Bull, White Bull? "What's best for me, the future?" There's so many different elements to it, it's carnage, isn't it? You're never going to please everyone at the end of the day, are you? - No, and I guess the one thing from a bowl at this point of view is, you want the highest skill bowlers being able to play each game and feel like they can bowl. It's quick and as good as they can, whereas, I think sometimes with the scheduling, you look at it and you go, "Right, I've got eight games, "eight four day games, eight weeks here." I might not miss a week, I might be at 80% for a few of those games, so I guess that's the only, that's probably the main issue that I think 'cause there's probably from the bowl as you kind of just want everyone performing to their ability, whereas sometimes it can feel like, they've got an hour next week because they're worried about doing their hammy or something. - Yeah, 100% they'll be holding back. I've been guilty of holding back, for sure. You're just sort of running in the process bowl against the lesser team and just being like, "Oh, I'll charge in for England "next week and stuff." (laughs) - It is, it is. - That's crazy. - Well, it's life, I mean. - That is sport as well, I mean. - Yeah, you got to be selfish if you want to think about your career and the longevity of it. (beep) There's got to be some gifts somewhere, so. - I thought I'd sit that doffit now, back on it now with a coaching treadmill. - You are right. - Love it. - You're not on any, no treadmill. No treadmill for you, Jack, for a few weeks, my son. - That's right. - Right, we got the cricket archive guest stat alert, over the terrible silent no-go. Ollie Pope, did you know at the SCG in January 2022, he became a world record holder for a joint most captures as a sub-fielder, Ollie Field. (laughing) - It wasn't, I got dropped the game before, but that makes it happen. - He's still got on the pitch, it wasn't rehab. He got on there and you got, what was it, let's have a look here, test match in his four catches, actually level with five others, including Brenda Seawag and Eunice Khan. Mush, good company. - Nice names to be an actor anyway, yeah. I think my dropped quadra has only got a hundred. It's a tough catch, but I stand a lot. - Don't say the shit things mate. - I've got to take back all those four for that one. Oh dear. - We'll just briefly update on the PCA MVP. How are the leagues looking in the men's game? In the PCA MVP standings, powered by Argentex, David Bedingham remains top of the overall men's standings. At the time of recording, Liam Dawson's in second, Surrey's Dan Lawrence, brutal sentry, in four wickets in their Rebel game against Worcester. Seating move up to third, that was a brutal onslaught in those innings, wasn't it, Pope? - Some not. - In their county championship standings, Ryan Higgins' top, David Bedingham second, Liam Dawson third. Women's game, Bronte? - Yeah, not much change. We've still got Bricey, our under the lid guest from last week, Catherine Brice, still leading the way. Kirsty Gordon, her captain, Glazed in Bloody Well this year, remains top of Rachel Hejo, Flint Trophy, ahead of Grace Scriven's in Jodie Groupock. So, I don't know much if anything of Jodie, and I know Grace is very young. So, good step and positive step for the future in Norman's cricket have got a few of the youngsters smashing it, so nice. - Yeah, 100%. Popey, any outsiders you're backing to shine in the men's MVP? Or you think that that current three or four is probably going to be there at the end? - Oh, there's always the same names up there. I mean, Bedingham, what's his name? He looks like he's playing a different game at a minute. And then Doris, I think Doris is always up there. And he's a... - All rounders mate. He's been so rounders. - Yeah, exactly. Price Harmsman, he's normally right up there as well. But, no, I think those are the names that could be stand out. Does it roll one thing, Catherine? - Yes, it does. I think the 100 does as well. - 100 does. - I'm going Doris to win it, and some cricket at Doris. - You said Doris. - Yeah, he was... - I mean, these all rounders, they're well annoying. - Well, him and Higgins are just, you can pencil them in for top three, usually, every year. - Yeah, yeah. He goes, right. - Right, under the lids, big question, Oliver. As our listeners know, the show is all about getting the truth behind life as a professional critic. And every week, we ask our host the one piece of information. Most people do not know about them. Ideally, not cricket related, preferably quirky, but is there anything that not many people would know about you? - We should have thought that Ben yet is tattooed out. Was it on his ass? Was that him? - What? - Was it Ben yet? - I'm back on it. - Was it on his ass? - Yeah, it was me. (laughs) - I'm waiting for someone to do something really inappropriate. - Oh, I've got nothing good. I thought about it earlier for a while as well. I was like, I'm boring, I'm boring. I was thinking I got a dog. The reason I got my dog, and obviously living on my own, being a cricket, probably not a smartest thing, but I love it, is 'cause I broke my shoulder. When I first did my shoulder, because I thought, right, I got five months off here, so I want to say I got a dog because I'm that boring. I'm, I can't call my shots for you, man. - What's your middle name? 'Cause we know that Ricky's middle name is funny. - Mine, mine's actually, it sounds quite posh at she is. - John Douglas, my two grand, grandpa's name. So, Doug, Doug, he's brilliant. - Doug, Doug, Doug, he's brilliant. - And then, John's from Bear and Setter. (laughs) - Nice. Brummy, and yeah, I love that. - Yeah, mom's a brummy. - Yeah, my best next brummy. They're actually really great on the night out, brummies. I'm not gonna lie. - Good, good accent as well. Woke's here, you can listen to him talk all day. - Yes, the handsome man is back. They love it. Blinders, it's good to see him back playing cricket again. Right, moving on to the last round. Before we let you go, Popey, it is our NAF quiz where we ask you generally cricket-themed questions with the odd half-bolly thrown in. You start with no runs. Each correct question answered is one run. If you don't know the answer, 'cause it's quick fire, stay pass. We'll move on to the next one. Let's take a timer up and I'll start the ball rolling. What year did you win PCA Men's Young Player of the Year award? - 2018. - Yes. - Yes, how many other teenagers long yourself played for Surrey against Middlesex in your county championship debut? - Four. - Three, plus three. - Yeah, cool, give it up. - A little give it up. - How many times have I got you out in first-class cricket? - One. - Twice apparently. - Who ran you out in your first professional game of cricket at head in the who ran you out? - Oh. - Is it a present, maybe? - Ah, Johnny. - How many first-class games have Surrey lost in the last three seasons out of 36 matches? - How many go... Three. - Where is the third test against the windows this summer? - Edgebaster. - Correct, how many Instagram followers does your dog's account, Life of Jackson have? - Oh, no, I'm not logged into that. - I said 2000. - Yes, we'll give you that. - Do you know what? You've been mugged off. You've been mugged off. That was well-argued. Brice's questions were way easier. - Who ran me out in my debut, I don't know. I'm passing, I was following that thing. - Pato, he's at night now, and he, besto apparently ran you out. I can't remember how I was playing or not. Probably was. - He might've been. - I can't remember. - I can't remember. - I don't remember. Oh, you got me out for a docket at the eye of it, didn't you? Is that right? Sanger and folks, he got hundreds, and I got a chance for it to be a game. - You were probably just had severe pad rash, and you were watching the lads pile on the run. - Yeah, I think I was like, yeah, that was my second game, mate. I'm not sure if the other one is seen, but I'm sure. - But we can personally say, thank you very much. But also, you managed to get four right, which unfortunately puts you joint bottom with docket, caterpillar, cappor, Sarah Glenn, Kate Levick. - Take it. - At least you knew how many Instagram followers of your dog's got, so that's quite important. - Yeah, nice. - Yeah, I did start. That was all in the first week, I think. - I'm gonna follow it after this. - Yeah, I love the content. I love the content. - Popey, thanks so much, mate. I know it's late on a, was it a Monday night, and you're getting ready for a test, a massive, important test, which we're all, obviously buzzing for, not just for England, but for do you, I mean, we hope you get some runs. And from a personal point of view, mate, it's been great seeing you do your thing at Surrey and welcome me into the environment. And I hope to see you again very soon or over the summer back in that Surrey addressing room, mate. Hopefully with a few trophies. But have a super summer, mate, and hopefully get loads of runs. - Cheers, thanks for having me. - Yes. - Great to meet you, Ollie. - And you, see you later. (upbeat music) - Great guest, O'Bruncy, what do you reckon? - Yeah, I mean, I'd like to say every week, which is great. I'm meeting a new men's career every week, and I love it, 'cause, you know, I can't, we don't seem to get bad people on here and wait and wait for a diva or, you know, somebody-- - There isn't any incricut. We won't get more and get the good people. The good boys and girls on here. I loved how, when he started talking about the basics of his batting technique, which I think will underpin anyone listening who's looking, especially a younger player, boy or girl, what they should be, folks. And like getting really underlived with the top player about what's important is actually, you know, your basics and your defenses, where it all starts. - Yeah, yeah, I mean, I had to get that questioning, 'cause I just feel like, if there's any, there's got to be some people listening there, future, the future of quickness. - I knew you'd like him anyway, 'cause he's got a puppy. So he's straight away to winning your book. - Any dog level we've got to get on here, we've got, but I'd say 90% are either dog lovers or golf lovers, aren't they? They don't mess about. - Moving on to our feedback, we do have a few this week, which is great. Firstly, from Kevin, a.k.a. Kiplet, in response to flower of Scotland being sung for Catherine and Sarah Bryce last week. He says, "A mate told me there was a rendition from the folk in Stan that they heard on the live stream. I had moved to the opposite seats by then, so I didn't hear it, unfortunately. But what an unbelievable day and night it was." - So good. I love that. When something like that stays with you. There's nothing like an anthem, is there? - In Paris, Scotland, that's sick. - In painting yourself, if you've been painting yourself through the England football matches like me and the rest of the country, the anthem does get the emotions going, so it's a great start. - 100%. - I feel your Kevin. Nice. Anyway, we've got someone else. Charlotte Tucker, on last week's episode. Enjoyed listening to this. It was a real reminder of how the club/pathway opportunities for young Scottish female players have started to shift. Hopefully the progress will continue. - Yeah, amen, hopefully they grow and grow and a really good opportunity there for young professionals to come through and actually represent Scotland rather than looking south for the border, even though we would gladly take the best players, won't we? - It is true. So Scotland, sort it out, snap them up. - And finally, Ben Marnock. Thank you, Ben. Really interesting interview with Catherine. Great question on what she would do if England came calling. It's a huge dilemma as she could end up frozen out of all international cricket like Kirsty Gordon. Hopefully she won't be. No doubt she is one of Scotland's top sports stars now. Hope she gets the recognition. That would be amazing, wouldn't it? She actually got recognition for being like a national sporting icon and it's cricket, hopefully. Cricket will have that effect on the public and young girls up in Scotland. - That is true. I do wonder if to ask her firstly, if she's ever been recognized on any sort of awards for them or anything like that, even as a youngster, so yeah, that would be nice. And it well suited to, 'cause it is a sacrifice not turning down opportunities like that, so. - Yeah, 100%. - Good honor. Anyway, that is the end of our feedback for this week and we do love it, don't we? A few heartwarming ones this week, so that's nice. So keep getting in touch. Any feedback questions, pointers, even, even, who you might like to listen to and get under the lid with, we'll try and make it hack and work with Jack. Use #underthelid on all socials and emailing@underthelid.co.nz - Another amazing guess, another episode down. Fun as always, if you've enjoyed it, please subscribe, leave a review, tell your maze. It's been fantastic. Under the lid, see you next week. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)