James Flippin, who is in for Frank Morano, talks with Chris Rutkowski, an author and professor at the University of Manitoba who has written about investigations and research on UFOs. They discuss UFO popularity in recent years, significant incidents and much more.
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all right chatting now with chris ripkowski a retired professor a guy who's a science writer and somebody who's done a lot of research and a lot of investigation into ufos and unexplained phenomena so uh... chris thank you so much for joining us here on the overnight happy fourth well actually i know you're a canadian so you guys celebrate canada day but here in the u_s_ we've been just getting done celebrating july fourth but uh... how are you this evening thank you for joining us pretty good and and happy fourth to you yet we had our july first uh... if you go yes yes and i've been up there for uh... several uh... candidate celebrations my family which is in uh... ontario so a little bit further east than you but chris you know i wanted to chat look anytime you're on the the overnight slot i you know i i'm a radio guy so i appreciate the chance to kind of delve into the unexplained the paranormal you know the stuff that maybe doesn't get as much coverage during the daylight hours let's say and we just passed speaking of canada day we just spat past on july second world u_f_o_ day although i i believe there's like two of them for whatever reason but we just passed at least one of the u_f_o_ days and it feels to me like u_f_o_s have become kind of more mainstream in the last year if you will maybe two years you know there's been congressional hearings um... we're hearing more and more i guess maybe the proliferation of things on social media and stuff like that but how would you respond to that suggestion like do you think that there is kind of more out there in the last year maybe year when it comes to people talking about a reporting on u_f_o_s yeah i think that uh... it's her to say that the more people seem into the whole u_f_o_ or u_a_p_ thing now uh... there has been a lot of media attention the question of that turn to the congressional hearings i mean that that's actually not new there there was congressional hearings back in nineteen sixty eight of all uh... you know that's going back to ways uh... so things are coming around again but yeah people are really into it uh... the number of u_f_o_ sightings is actually a little bit down in recent years compared to uh... sub previous years but people are really really uh... attracted to the subject because it's had it has this air of of mystery to it and uh... you know the government is not coming clean on uh... what's going on uh... so you know i think there's uh... reason to you know it'll be fastated with this this subject no question chris rutkowski our guest here he's a science writer a guy who's done a ton of research on things like u_f_o_ so you know amid this world u_f_o_ day we had a former u_s_ air force intelligence officer last summer amid those congressional hearings that we've been referring to telling us that there is a government program that retrieves and reverse engineers unidentified flying objects now immediately the thought in my head is going to like you know roswell new mexico and uh... movies i've seen like independence day and imagining you know like them finding little grey aliens and their uh... their impressive flying machines and taken technology that can be used maybe elsewhere so what do you say chris rutkowski about the concept of you know reverse engineered technology or you know things that may have resulted from u_f_o_s or uh... extraterrestrials that actually are here on the world we know right now well you know i i have to say i'm more of a doubting thomas uh... you know we've heard these stories before in fact uh... so the stories about crash saucers and little uh... alien to agree or green or gray or whatever uh... you know i've been around for since the nineteen fifties uh... this new wave of stories are seem to be a lot of stories right now we just sent we don't have the proof i mean you know if the speculation that things are being reversed engineered for crash saucers and and whatnot there's lots of stories about aliens on earth already that uh... the government is cooperating with them or they're cooperating with us in some way from underground bases we've heard a lot of that before nothing really substantial i mean it certainly would be possible i suppose to reverse engineer some technology uh... although you know uh... you know if we really had it reverse engineered alien technology would we really bother with uh... bowling starline and going star liners right now and you know trying to get uh... heavy lifting of rockets uh... uh... in operation again so that that would be an elaborate false flag right if uh... for some reason the uh... tesla expensive star liner right uh... and world u_f_o_ date that voice you're listening to by the way chris rutkowski here our guest on the other side of midnight and you know world u_f_o_ day july second it actually i guess goes back to july second nineteen forty seven and the so-called roswell incident so chris can you tell us you know what is the big deal with roswell new mexico and why is that so so connected with the area fifty one in the whole stuff you know why is it for the uninitiated why is that so connected to u_f_o_s yeah i guess you know if you like second is kind of uh... i don't know uh... arbitrary uh... date uh... back in uh... nineteen forty seven in june twenty fours uh... found him kenaldar was flying in a plane on uh... search of and rescue operation uh... in washington state and he said that he had seen a number of objects looking through the sky and they were flying as if they were saucer skipping across the water and that's where the the name flying saucer came from uh... and then excited concurrently with that at the beginning of june uh... the uh... air force had put up a number of balloons and and things like that and they apparently crashed in the roswell area uh... and some of the debris was found by a by a fellow in the brazil and uh... in the roswell area and he took it to the air force on the july the the uh... fifth i think the fifty six uh-huh and uh... you know a memo was sent out and uh... uh... you know we did that u_s_ it was in possession of this crash flying saucer one in fact uh... you know they had some debris that seem to be from balloon but it didn't resemble anything that people had reported but sort of people put two and two together and that's what they came up with uh... and just happen to coincide with uh... you know the early part of uh... of july and we actually have a a world heritage ufo day on the twenty fourth of june and the world ufo day a little bit later at the at the beginning of july so that's where all this comes from the idea that perhaps this crash saucer uh... uh... you know what really was uh... uh... you know from outer space about the america government uh... claimed to have been the recovered that looked like pieces of tin foil and also wouldn't stuff like that was just a subterfuge to draw people away from what really crashed out there yeah there's been some people who suggest that maybe that was uh... i think part of like a russian uh... flying balloon or some sort of other uh... russian aircraft of some kind uh... i think i saw that in some reports so you know chris uh... chris rickowski's our guests here in terms of you identified yourself as a doubting thomas in this whole area now is that kind of true of the alien question or you know ufo question in general are you someone who uh... is fascinated by this because you think it's probably something where there's a lot of subterfuge and you know confusion or or suspicion about stuff that isn't actually legit or do you think maybe we just aren't looking in the right places for things like aliens or uh... what might be u_f_o_ is of that type that kind of thing well there's no question the subject is really really muddy uh... we you know don't have enough facts to really substantiate anything but you know i have my backgrounds in astronomy and my colleagues uh... uh... at universities in around the world uh... in astronomy are fairly certain that there's aliens out there somewhere that the problem can they actually get there from here and i you know i i site with the the faction that says you know given enough of an advance uh... in you know that uh... you know and the years passing and and technology improving it's possible that somebody out there might have figured out a way not to break the laws of physics but perhaps abandon in ways that we can't even imagine right now you know our son is fairly fairly standard uh... you know it's uh... you know it's been around for uh... billions of years well just imagine if there's a star out there uh... that's you know let's say uh... i don't know fifty or a hundred million years older than our son and they have a planet uh... around that star that you know as a civilization kind of ours ish uh... and they have a bit of a head start you know not just ten or hundred years but thousands or billions of years you know they might have been able to figure out a way to travel between the stars and that's really what drives a lot of the speculation is it possible to aliens are really visiting us for some reason uh... and we know we we just don't know what that is yeah well that so now that your question or your your assertion they're kind of blows my mind in a million different ways and i want to ask you a million different questions like you know connecting back to stuff that frankly i probably don't even have the slightest can concept or understanding of but like you think of the big bang right or the the concept of an expanding ever infinite universe and all this kind of stuff with the aliens if they did have an advance on us let's say would that be like a uh... a planetary system or a galaxy that was almost like closer to the so-called center of the universe if you could even call it that is that i mean my conceptualizing that the right way in terms of like time space and all that would that be uh... a civilization uh... people a planet uh... uh... galaxy that was kind of you know further away from from earth in that respect or is that not necessarily a concern well you know it it's uh... uh... not necessarily galaxies you don't have to go that far actually you know some of the uh... some of the games that people are playing halo and uh... and things like that uh... and even watching uh... though some of the avatar movies you know they're based on uh... planets that are around stars that are really close to us as to know publicly speaking to say you know but within fifty light years or so which is really really close to the non-galaxy is many many many many thousands of light years across the uh... you know something that's relatively close to us uh... might have life on it and they might have you know the creatures on it very much like us or were more advanced than us you know we don't even have to go that far so it's certainly possible they're you know there's life extraterrestrial life relatively close to us i'm traveling to the stars don't might be fairly simple if you know how to do it chris rutkowski that voice that you're listening to he's a retired professor a guy who's a science writer of you know as he spoke there told you about his background in astronomy and astrophysics and stuff like that so chris you know asking your opinion you're somebody who i'm sure is thought about this kind of thing a lot why would an alien civilization want visit a place like earth is it something where you know uh... a civilization might be just kind of curious and exploring and studying other creatures that they kind of perceived to be something like themselves could it be something and again maybe i've watched too too many movies like they're looking for resources or something like that uh... could be something nefarious uh... involved that what are your thoughts on that well yet you can pick a your favorite science fiction movie and one of those i mean we could be you could be something as simple as uh... you know we're a field experiment for and anthropology class from uh... uh... from city reticuli or something like that and then uh... you know they're sort of watching us and they you know can we grab somebody and look at them and tag them and stick them back down on earth uh... you know there's all great stories like that course you know the conquest idea you know maybe there they need the resources uh... or they're just very very curious and uh... are sitting back and watching you know watching us you know you get close to blowing ourselves up from time to time and way you know coming in you know waiting to come in and uh... pop up after us so now there's all sorts of stories out there we simply have no idea that's the idea of aliens because you know there's their way of thinking and their ideas would be completely alien to us you know we can do that you know project our own ideas onto them and it would be nice if you know we want to do sort of a star trekky kind of uh... universe where i think we want to share ideas and become part of a federation and live in peace of harmony and all that sort of stuff i suppose in some of the star trek movies are not so living in peace and harmony but you know that's that's part of the course that's true chris rutkowski is our guest here this evening so christ you mentioned it like the whole concept of people getting um... you know taken and uh... you know branded probed looked at whatever uh... have you had personal experience and and spoken to people who have said that they had encounters with what they believe to be aliens uh... yes a matter fact uh... uh... one of my books is all about uh... abductions and aliens and and what people have said there was has been really going on you know i've spoken with uh... fairly uh... respected professionals and and walks of life uh... who say that they've had these experiences that uh... they believe they were taken on board i had a military officer coming to my office at the university one year and say that he couldn't tell his commanding officer uh... that uh... he believes he was taken on board a uh... an alien ship uh... but uh... he was if he could tell me because i was going to tell his planning officer anything so you know these are the types of things that we hear uh... are is that what's really happening you know is it's certainly possible is some uh... you know psychological issues going on with some people you know uh... you know that they imagine things but there's if they need certain things in their lives that that they create these these scenarios but on the other hand you know you died as i said i talked with people who don't seem to have any psychopathology yet they report these very astonishing experiences and but you know the typically a full report is just simply somebody seeing a light in the sky and you know there are thousands and thousands of reports like that every year uh... in fact in uh... in the york alone i think there's almost six thousand cases uh... on record from uh... the national u_f_o_ reporting center in uh... and washington state uh... you know over the years you know recently is you know several thousand but you know the average cases is not that interesting but you do get these cases from time to time that really make you scratch your head and wonder what exactly is going on chris rutkowski uh... science writer a retired college professor and the guy who has as he just mentioned written books on this subject so last year i think it was that we had um... those congressional hearings we also had a mexican congressional hearing where there were these you know supposedly mummified alien bodies and they said look they've got the the queen of all evidence here the potential for non human d_n_a_ in the presence of these not really a u_f_o_ thing per se but are do you have any comments or or knowledge of that whole you know supposedly alien bodies that they say they found in mexico here there's actually a that that televised event where they they try to do these things out to show them to uh... the public which is not usually the way that i think it's gonna be there now but uh... uh... you know that the the stories are really about and you know if there had been anything to some of these alien mummy stories and and support some of these uh... individuals of later you know uh... said that they recanted and uh... the scientists have been found to have not been completely open about this sort of thing but you know that the stories are there and they leave the service from time to time uh... whether they have any basis in reality you know you once we see it published in the general of anthropology uh... and that it's been analyzed you know three ways from summer uh... and by a like independent laboratories and that's of course what we're looking at uh... that uh... you know we can we can say something a little more substantial it's possible that there are you know uh... mummified creatures that remain to be found but you know whether they have anything to do with uh... aliens that you know we'll see chris rutkowski chatting here on the other side of midnight and uh... he's a guy who is well-versed in all these subjects aliens ufos you name it so uh... you know chris what do you think is the next watershed moment if you will in all of this you know we've talked about congressional evidence you said look decades ago they had congressional hearings and you know everybody's got a story about somebody they know who saw u_f_o_ maybe they saw one themselves and uh... dinging deeper maybe you've got somebody you know who um... experience some kind of an abduction or something like that out in the listening audience but what do you think is the next watershed moment like do you think that the only way almost any of this paradigm would really change is if you had some really super credible person kind of come along and say i'm an alien i'm here and this is why i mean is is that is that really the most amazing thing that potentially happen or do you think that there could be more physical evidence that would kind of change the conversation as well well i think physical evidence is something that science is really looking for the good news is that uh... more and more scientists are taking the subject seriously and you know scientists at harvard and m_i_t_ and yale and uh... man other universities are you know uh... you know coming forward now there's programs to use a check the skies uh... and look for more you know observational evidence of of ufos and u_a_p_ no ten percent of the american population believe they've seen ufos and she earned numbers uh... alone show that you know people are are seeing things in and you know that the public is demanding some answers and with the uh... air force you know in the pentagon taking it uh... the subject of the more seriously you know we're looking for a little bit more substance there too so i think that the watershed moment would be uh... you know when some of these stories become uh... more than just stories that you know we do have some physical evidence that uh... maybe you know triangulation of of several observations of the same thing uh... that allows us to get a better idea what what's actually flying you know there's uh... they say there's you know uh... no dearth of of stories but you know we need data and science uh... you know what is on data it's how you know we've gotten to where we are today uh... rightly or wrongly and yet it's truly a we do need somebody in the position of power to to really come for a new week and of course we do we have intelligence officers we have congressmen congressmen and women you know the supporting this uh... and saying that they know they believe that there's something there but uh... you know if if a president and uh... you know if there have been stories that uh... that trump himself uh... said that uh... you know he's been briefed on the subject and if he comes forward with with evidence and then you know that that certainly will be uh... something to uh... to see and that it's suspected that by the movement briefed on the on the subject to so if a president comes forward you know that certainly is going to tip the scale and in one direction or another well look i mean you know trump has said that i think it was an interview he gave a few weeks ago he said if he gets back to the white house he's going to declassify uh... i think maybe in that case it was the j_f_k_ stuff that he alluded to that he would finally uh... uh... declassified so who knows maybe we get some uh... some some good juicy uh... data or evidence as you said from the uh... disclosures from the president and and some of those classified documents i i was reading an associated press article where there was a nasa chief who was saying show me the evidence show me the evidence this is a guy who obviously much like you uh... maybe you know rightfully so says that they're a little bit of a doubting thomas and i don't think that's the uh... the worst thing in the world chris rakowski our guest here tonight chris you mentioned that you've written a bunch of books on the subject in particular what was the title of that one book on abductions that you said you did it was called abductions and aliens and uh... goes back a few years now in a document uh... uh... you know uh... a lot of uh... the individuals who uh... who i actually work with uh... you know there's other stories in there as well but uh... people who've come to me i back in the day going back into the old the nineties uh... by actually uh... helped facilitate uh... some support groups for individuals who needed to share what they were going through i worked very closely with clinical psychologists uh... and you know some of the stories were quite remarkable of of uh... i remember uh... there was a a nurse who had been working overnight and uh... she came back to her apartment and believe that she had seen a uh... two preachers that confronted her in her bedroom and they took her on board and uh... talk telepathically to her and plopped her back down and you know i i talked with her and she said you know i i i i i didn't have any angel repeats of that night i don't watch uh... science fiction movies come too busy i just go to work and come back i don't have ever dreams uh... this is simply what i what a seem to have happened to me what happened to her no idea yeah so well look cress fascinating stuff uh... you're a great guy to talk to about this uh... i really enjoyed the conversation everybody should follow chris on ex at ufology research so that's chris rutkowski r u t k o w s k i and it's u f o l o g y research at twitter at x and uh... you can check out his website as well so chris thank you so much for joining us and uh... we'll be checking out your books as well
