Tonight I'm joined again by Doug Bielmeier, teaching professor, musician, and host of The Process for another supersized installment of an ongoing series of film discussions. In this epsiode, we highlight two sequels that often get unfairly compared to their iconic predecessors. While neither Robocop 2 nor Predator 2 can match the level of the previous entries, they're both still really fun and worthwhile movies to see. Get ready for vulgar children and bad accents and enjoy!
Show music by OGRE. Support the show!
Hey guys, welcome to another ozone late night double feature special. Now, a couple things about this episode that are a little different than the ones that have come before. The first is that, as you've probably already noticed, both the audio and video versions of this special are out in place of the Friday show. Lando had a trip that came up kind of suddenly and I have never really been thrilled with shows that we do when we're trying to just get them done really fast before one of us is going to be out of town. So since I already had this special ready to go, both in audio and video form, I figured well, I'll just release this on Friday. What's the difference really? It's still a long show, a long, long show and it's perfectly fine to slot in on Friday since it was going to come out on this Monday anyway, so it's a four day difference. Who cares? So that's the first thing. This will serve as the Friday show. We'll be back to our normal schedule, but this was just kind of an easy way to not have to worry about knocking out a show quickly. And the other is, and there's no avoiding this, my audio in the first part is not great. I, since we were going to be on camera, I thought I'll use my lav mic and that way you don't have a microphone that's in the shot when I'm talking because blah blah blah blah and I thought I was smart but I was actually really dumb and the audio is just not where I wanted it to be. So I just went back to my normal, like the one I'm talking into right now for the second part. So at least it picks up noticeably in the second half, which is just like a movie, if you're going to have a week half, put it up front and then get better later. It leaves a better impression on the viewer slash listener. So that's why the audio is bad. And if you watch the video version, you'll see that I'm wearing a lav mic. And then in the second half, nope, the regular mic is back in frame. So just wanted to point that out because it is noticeably different and I did what I could to make it better, but there's only so far you can go before it starts sounding like a robot. So it is what it is, but the important point is that whatever the audio issues on my end were in the first half. We have a lot of fun talking about two movies that are in both our opinions unfairly compared to their previous entries when they are both really fun and interesting movies. So on that note, I'm going to shut up and we're going to get to it. So here we go. Enjoy. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] All right, everybody. We are back for another double feature film showcase or whatever I'm calling it. I am joined once again this evening by Dr. Doug Bealmeyer, teaching professor at Northeastern University. Doug is also a musician whose latest album, Music for Billionaires, is available everywhere and has been on the show many times and I'm very happy to have him back for a pair of interesting sequels. Doug, how you doing? I'm doing great. I'm excited to talk about these films. I feel like there's going to be a lot of trash talk about special effects and maybe some things that are very 90s but also these are the films that I grew up with. So there's always a special place and I always give them a little extra leeway because these are the films that definitely had an impact on me when I was growing up. Yeah I think a lot of people, these are the types of films that were running all the time on whatever particular lower end movie channel so HBO would have the first one and then Cinemax or Showtime or the movie channel if people would remember that would have the secondary, the sequels to them and that's a bit of a lead into what we're talking about. We're doing two sequels to movies that are considered landmark films so we are going to do Robocop 2 and Predator 2, I can't remember the year for Robocop 2, is it 90, what was it about? It is 90 and then 93 is Robocop 3, so 87, 90 and 93. We're not going to be talking about Robocop 3, we don't do that here, we don't. I have no need to acknowledge that film exists. Peter Weller is not in it, so is it really a Robocop movie, is it really, I don't know, it's not really a Robocop film, we'll stick with two because two is a fun film, three is embarrassing so we're going to stay very far away from that but yeah Robocop 2, a sequel just like Predator 2 to one of the landmark science fiction films, I mean there's almost universal agreement that Robocop is one of the great science fiction films of its time and probably all time and in some ways as just an opener to this it's sort of astonishing to think that a sequel to this because this is before we're in the forever sequel land like we are now. It's like reboot of the new class like it's like X-Men new class or something like that when they were like in grade school or something so sometimes it's a flashback of the original characters with new actors or yeah I'm noxious. This is a point where sequels, they were going to get made if the movie was well known but it wasn't quite as, well actually it's funny, I don't think when this movie at least in my opinion when this movie came on the cynicism of sequelitis wasn't there as much however this is a deeply cynical film, this is probably a more cynical film when you actually see what it's talking about than even the first one was and the first one was no joy trip through happy corporate land or anything like that so yeah this is a, but as a sequel and a lot of people say well it's just the first film again sort of but it's also expanding at times on the first film without necessarily always being really good at it up to a certain point anyway. Which I always don't have a problem with, I don't have a problem with a director making the same movie four times do you know what I mean if each time they're building on it I feel like the thing that came to my mind about this is the Mad Max series and I know with the new movie coming out you talked about it on one of your fives this week even but yeah the Mad Max like genre grouping of films I feel like each film there's a little something different it's kind of the same story I feel like it really is the same movie four times in a way or five times now but each time there's a bigger budget there's a different focus there's more violence there's less violence there's more character so I don't have a problem with a movie that is a sequel that really just rehashes or does the what the original does better but I don't think that's the case in Robocop 2 I think there are some things that happened in the first movie happened in the second movie but I don't think it was at least from my perspective I don't think it was a let's just do a better job or let's do the stunts or the effects that we couldn't do in the first film no I don't there's there's a lot of mixed opinion I think most people tend to look back on it fondly as a fun movie but a lot of people will look at it as kind of a soulless film and I don't think I would agree with that I think it does one of its inevitable problems is again you're coming after the first one you're coming after one you're losing your composer which is a huge part of the first film is a puzzle doors yeah yeah pull it pull a door I think yeah pull it or I'm probably missing it but that's a huge part of it so you don't have the the same composer so that the soundscape is different I don't look at it as negatively as some people do I think it's a perfectly serviceable soundtrack is it as good as the first one no I mean you have such a memorable established theme that's yeah well and they reuse that that gets that gets recycled and yeah that gets reused in a way but in the first film I the music is very very much a big part of the film and in the second one there is music and this is coming from a musician I can't remember anything notable that happened in the score in the second film where the first film I could tell you about all that my favorite like moments with the brass and all these kind of orchestration things but in the second film music was happening yeah I literally just watched it again yesterday and I don't remember anything of it as far as the music I really don't it was it's somewhere in there they're obviously in the music but I couldn't I couldn't tell you exactly what it was or how many of the themes from it right so that's one big detriment to it but honestly outside of that and of course you don't have Verhoeven coming back so Verhoeven is a very distinctive filmmaker his movies have a very specific tone yeah they have a very specific hammering on sex and violence right that this movie does not although I was really happy that this movie does retain a lot of the violence in terms of how much gore and blood there is so they retain that a lot of movies if it's not the same person they cut that way back they do not do that with this well and but it is softer and just like which we won't talk about Robocop 3 let's not let's spend any more time talking about it but where they just kind of kept further moving away from the violence because that affects the the rating then right and then how large the audience can be I don't think that was creative creative decisions to make it less violent I think it was just a we can this can appeal to a larger a larger audience if we have a lower you know PG-13 rating this is back when people cared about ratings like I feel like today like people are like whatever like you know you see like seven-year-old kids in an R-rated movie and you're just like isn't it a school night like what do you guys do it in here but back you know back then it was like you can't see this or you know yeah yeah they're very strict yeah R was a pretty hard R rating you tried to get into a theater it was an R you probably couldn't do it unless you knew the person working at the theater that's usually that was for me anyway yeah but to jump around a little bit that this has one of my favorite children in any film this kid that's in this movie is one of the highlights I actually have isolated most of his swearing in my sound files that we will hear because this kid who's not acting anymore acted for a while got out of it went behind the camera for whatever reason but he's perfectly cast he swears expertly it doesn't seem like he's dubbed over it seems like it's him and his audio which is great so I love that that's there I guess I just assumed he was actually 36 and had a wife and a kid he just looked he just looked really young Benjamin Button disease I guess yeah that's what they based the movie off of this kid and his very reverse youth swearing so the movie starts off and we get a set of commercials and news breaks very reminiscent of the first film right that both set up the Magnavolt commercial with John Glover I believe the actor is I know him from Gremlins too he's been in a million things he was a scrooge all kinds of stuff which feels like it's right out of the first movie that's very very thematically correct then we go into a news break which both sets up more humor in the Amazon nuclear plant meltdown but also then lays out basically where we are in in terms of what this world is so I'm going to go ahead and and play this opening that explains you know what's going on and what the big crime thing is now that Clarence Botaker is out of the picture we have a new villain which we'll get to in a second on the international scene the Amazon nuclear power facility has blown its stack irradiating the world's largest rainforest the environmentalist call it a disaster but don't they always in national news attorney general marca's today approved the EV 209 combat unit for deployment in five american cities despite widespread complaints of malfunction the surgeon general is dead gunned down 20 minutes ago by militant addict of the deadly designer drug nuke the greatest health threat facing our nation nuke the most addictive narcotic in history a plague this station has just received the following transmission from kane convicted murderer and leader of the nuke cult people want paradise and they will have it the assassination is the latest act of terrorism by kane following the fire bombing of a drug treatment clinic that left five dead last week following the latest breakdown in negotiations detroit's police today return to the picket line demanding better terms from omni consumer products ocp the corporation contracted by the city to run the detroit police department ocp cut our salaries 40 percent and canceled our pensions and now they refuse to even talk to us god knows why but they want this straight now i think this opening is fantastic because what it does is it uses the news break idea that was present in the first film and it gives you a bunch of exposition points without seeming artificial out of nowhere this is exactly what a news set of news items would look like and you get everything you have the idea of okay the joke of the nuclear amazon meltdown so right away we get that kind of dark humor from the first movie we have nuke as a national problem or a city-wide problem anyway sure the gunning down by a fanatic of the surgeon general so the violence is there right away we get uh kane who we're going to get to in a second because kane is his own thing and then we have the ocp uh taking over the police and now there's a strike and the guy even says i don't know why but they want this strike which is a big plot point as the movie goes forward so this is another one of these great openings yeah inside of about a two-minute clip here that i not even that much that lays out basically your whole framework of the movie within this idea of the news item i think it's one of the better openings for any movie as far as utilizing the device we know and giving us all the beats that we're going to hit yeah and even you know having the same actors reprise their role as the uh newscasters um and then even the editorializing of the newscaster we're being like you know oh well you know the environmentalist don't they always say it's a disaster or whatever so like you can see there's even an erosion in this belief in sort of science you know we often talk about like there's global warming and stuff today it becomes this huge political thing if you bring it up and it's so it's interesting that even in this opening it gives you a sense that there's there's debate about whether it's a bad thing that a nuclear explosion destroys the amazon rainforest yeah right and then we get our intro to kane who is played by an actor named tom newnan and the interesting part about tom newnan as an actor he's a very distinctive actor i've actually reviewed a couple movies he's in he's famously in man hunter the first kind of lecture film or whatever they want to call it um he plays kane in this really interesting way because based on the news items they're terrorists they've bombed this thing you know you you see terrible acts and yet he's sitting in what looks like a little hollowed out cave and it's very calm and he seems more like a uh like a laid back heroine jesus or heroine man type where he's like yeah well the people just want to be happy and i'm going to let them be happy and the whole movie he's played as almost sedated all very laid back compared to bodiker who was a nutcase and was throwing people out the back of the car right from the beginning the first time we see him and flipping out so i thought it was a smart decision not to try to recreate bodiker not just redo him again absolutely and instead give us this really weird cult drug dealer guy who was going to offer us a different perspective i i think in the first film one of the things that's so great about it and and it carries over in the second film is there's this sort of business of usual or business as usual that we that we even were if we're watching in 1990 or if we're watching in 2024 we're like that's ridiculous that is not okay that there's a nuclear power plant you know like it just things that people are taking for granted like the fact that the police would go on strike like this idea like seems like this is not a normal this is unsettling and yet even you know the the people who the interpreters of the news who are supposed to sort of kind of sugarcoat it for us are just sort of being like oh yeah this happens all the time like the important services for the public go on strike they're owned by a corporation and the amazon is now destroyed like yeah this is just like it's a tuesday like this is normal and i think the thing that i was excited about is it would be great to have a cult like villain who would actually make more sense to the audience than anyone else in the film where he would say things like i think people should be like free and should be free from violence and should be able to what does he say everyone it deserves a piece everybody wants paradise and they're going to get it or they'll be able to have it now something like that is the exact phrasing yeah these are the word paradise yeah because right now uh it feels like hell like like this is a hellscape i mean you have environmental disasters you have violence and now the people the beat cop uh isn't there to protect you the police that are there to uphold a law so i was excited about that because bodiker was part of the problem right bodiker was just an example of what was wrong with detroit he was one of the parts of the problem where this sets um you know uh this sets up this story's villain as maybe being someone who is a little bit more clear headed or definitely would be charismatic to to people who are kind of distraught by living in detroit at that time yeah i think that you know bodiker was working for ocp we find that out in rebel confluence so there was immediately this connection between the corporation and the villain which worked great for that movie but in this one this is where when people say well they're just redoing the same thing no because kane has no connection at least initially to ocp whatsoever he is what and i think you're right a product of detroit has not gotten better it was supposed to be that rebel cop was the first step in delta city and making everything gleaming and and they do recycle that idea somewhat but i don't take that as redoing the first movie i take that as yeah the company couldn't make it work so they're trying to sell the people the same scam again so i don't look at it the way which is even more depressing because at least you're like okay if the this future they built delta city and now everything was perfect i feel like that would have been a very different film but instead they're like oh no because of bureaucratic uh you know gridlock we're basically still in the same situation but now the police are going to quit and there's going to be no law enforcement and oh by the way robo cop is still the only you know like it's just like and now there's new villains and oh by the way there's a new drug epidemic happening which is making crime even worse and you know just making even things life even more you know because we never got that in the first film in the first film it was like well there's like normal people like trying to live here in detroit and there's a criminal element now it's like half the population is addicted to nuke yeah bonkers gang seem to be a the worst gang around like that small group of people seem to be outsized in terms of their evilness and villainy i mean they're the massacre scene of murphy i think it's supposed to underscore that as well as how brutal they are but most the other criminals are common like there's a rate best to get shot in the the penis as we see which is great but the rest of it is pretty there's a convenience store robbery right and that guy just looks like a junkie like a junkie kind of you're like oh he looked desperate and that's why he's like trying to rob the liquor store yeah right whereas in this following that newscast we get this long series of shots of escalating crime on the streets where we start off and it's a woman who's pushing carts and then she almost and that stunt looks amazing i mean that woman was really close to that car that car was not going slow so i don't know if they sped it up or if they just didn't care if they killed that woman or not because that's a really with every watch a couple times i'm like so you got double pay i don't know something because she was really close to that car so we get that and the guy comes and pretends he's going to help her he takes her purse he's then immediately set upon by a pair of women who i don't know i think they're just supposed to be junkies i'm not really sure they beat him up and they take everything from him and then we get to finally we end up with people that drive a car into a gun store and are looting it because they think the cops are on strike and this is a long i don't know unless it's five or six minutes long where it just keeps going along and we're seeing all this stuff which is a beautifully done sequence right after that to show you this is what life on the street is like it's a never ending crime spree and it just gets worse and worse and worse it's great right it was almost like the one monster after another kind of idea that like one crime was then actually feeding into another crime so like each each uh villain or criminal became the victim then which i think was even more like you know the the the prostitutes were you know pickpocketed the guy and then the the prostitutes were you know overcome by the next thing so it was kind of a cool kind of you know each criminal became a victim so it's like it it was really chaotic you know right and so that then ends when robocop shows up and gets out now he has a new paint job he's now in kind of uh almost like a light blue with sort of a rainbow dramatic thing happening immediately by the way i was like this movie i said to myself this movie is not going to be as good as the first the first time i saw robocop the first time i saw robocop and even just that scene where it was one criminal after another you know like kind of uh there was like this neon thing that was happening and there was these brighter richer colors and you know one of the things i really loved about uh you know the verhoeven original uh sort of cinematography was like especially you know people who are listening can't see it but these sort of original robocop behind me where it's like there's four colors in the shot it's like black gray whatever that skin tone is and then white like and then maybe there's just a mixture of those so it's like this desaturated sort of and he does it again in total recall he does it in um starship troopers but it's just like a really limited color palette and based on Detroit like a rust belt city like it just it it works really well and right from the get-go i was just like ooh there's a lot of color in this there's a lot of it and it just it took me out of it and then yeah he comes out and he's like purple i'm seeing purple i have color color perception issues but i'm like no i was like why is robocop the video yeah there's purple in there yeah i was like why is robocop purple in this movie i was like i loved when he had the steel and it's just it it's metal and it's just there's light cast on it it's like a white steel yeah yeah it's it's kind of a 50-50 thing for me uh it does i i don't like the blue at all i don't mind the colors because again it's a way of the the film signaling that they're not just reusing the same ideas from the first one so it's it does at least show some type of personality distinguish this from the first one i don't think it's always successful um i i again you're right it is immediately apparent in a lot of ways that this is a step down however what does keep it from being a huge problem is unlike robocop 3 weller is still able to move so perfectly and is able to embody the robocop characters so well yeah that i really kind of just forgot about the color because i'm like yeah this is this is one of the things that made the first one work so well and he came back and uh nancy alan is back as his part like they are great their relationship in this is fantastic i i think they're it builds on what the first one's set up uh but weller comes in and of course dismantles those guys shoots them up we get a lot nice squibs um no digital blood flying around here anything like that one thing about the first film too that i think maybe makes it that the limited color palette then when the blood is there it's so much more evident because there's so much of it that stands out so much compared to anything else so yeah you lose that where you have all these as you said neon bright it just has arcadey colors even it goes right into an arcade and and it doesn't feel um it doesn't feel as gritty and it doesn't feel as violent and you know one of the things somebody described the first film as a body horror in the body horror genre and i didn't to be honest i didn't really know what that was so i looked it up and it's basically talking about a series of movies or or movies in which kronenberg yes well yeah yeah like kronenberg yeah he's he recited in the article but um yeah yeah yes that was yeah and this whole idea of like you're seeing mutilation or manipulation of the body and so there's the the horror in the first film of actually robocop himself because he's a cyborg and he's like you know you can kind of see him and that type of thing um but also um just in the violence the fact that you know and as the movie goes on it ramps up you know the in the first robocop it ramps up and by the end you know botaker gets really horribly mutilated by uh by the information stick in uh robocop's uh you know hand and um there's also uh the other character who gets for some reason there's toxic waste just in a vat that pours on him and he starts to melt and then get hit by a car now by the way i am not all for over the top violence but for some reason but for some reason um it it was a really important part of the first film because it just added this edge to it and it became very clear within the first ten minutes of the of robocop too that that type of that level of greediness was not going to be there and i i didn't you know i kept an open mind even like you know i've seen the film many many times now but um i've kept each time i kept an open mind because i'm like i don't think that's what this film is going to be about this one isn't going to be about using that like kind of mix of satire and body horror um it it's going to be a different type of it might be it's going to be a different type of film yeah and that's that's an interesting thing to to stop and kind of talk about because having watched it now twice in the last week i still couldn't tell you what i think it's really about and that's a problem because movies should have a message or a point of view and i think the first one very clearly does i think that that is basically the idea that you know murphy is still himself at the end like the idea that the last line is what's your name son and he says murphy and then the thing just closes like that's the whole movie right there got it this movie is more difficult to figure out now this is written by frank miller and we won't talk too much about frank miller because he's gone completely insane in his older years and i don't even feel like talking about how he went off his rocker but at the time this movie came out he and he and to be fair because you can't take somebody's earlier work away from them just because they lose their mind i mean you still have to respect that the art of the person produces if it's good and in his earlier career he did create some of the landmark comic book ideas and series that defined especially Batman there's the Ronin series Sin City which became a couple of movies and his art style before he could be just when lazy and crazy was very distinctive go back and look at his earlier stuff it's beautiful work really heavy use of shadow contrast that type of thing he did the story for this movie and i honestly couldn't tell you like is it supposed to be anti-drug i guess although there's some stuff later that would seem to maybe contradict that message but there are these little moments and i have clips of at least a couple of them where i sit there and go i wonder what this was originally supposed to be or was it changed or whatever because there are these interesting character moments particularly one with robocop and his wife and then one later what the kid in a in a death scene where you go yeah this feels very different from everything else and this feels very emotional and mature and interesting yeah and thoughtful and then the rest of it feels not forgettable but not anything special is that is that kind of your read on it too i think so yes absolutely so the first film is is wonderful science fiction satire right it is the pinnacle of what i love about a good science fiction film is that it's about a monster it's about something crazy otherworldly something we haven't seen it's about a dystopian future but it's commentary it's commentary and it's satire and you're absolutely right the first film was about murphy retaining his identity despite society just being awful like i feel like it was like about him maintaining his humanity through this this horrible situation and in the first film it's like well wait who's the bad guy like i kept asking myself i'm like wait is it you know is it dick jones is it is it Clarence Bodiker like who is it these corporate guys are they the real criminal and like there's some people that say Miguel Ferrar's character who plays is Bob Jones in the first film like he's actually the villain because he like created robocop like you know like that's you know so like in that it was like i think that film was very one note and i think it was that society is screwed and the corporate guys are just as much as criminals as the you know criminals on the street and i think in i think you're saying here now in the second film like it's particularly in those two scenes there's this whole other softer consideration and you know it's in it's in that the first robocop at the same as in Total Recall and as in Starship Troopers there's this detached satirical sort of like i'm reading Ender's game like you know like i'm reading some some script that was written in the 60s which is commentary about how you know the future is going to be horrible and commentary on like racism or something in that time that you just couldn't openly write about so it had that that feel to it that all those films had that this didn't this was like i it was halfway between a popcorn blockbuster and the original source material and i think that led to then like you said like these really bizarre scenes where there was this kind of sensitivity and um it wasn't looking at it so black and white yeah and i think too what what there is in this movie is more clunkiness than in the first one because i feel like when it tried to do some of its messaging it went really heavy with it because the two main themes that i could pick up are basically similar themes or they're keeping going what the first movie did which is corporations bad very good so that's the same but it's done the the stuff with robocop i think is handled very well i think there's some there's some real good nuance in there and i think that's because weller knows what he's doing i think on the corporate side it's much more over the top and less subtle and so well it's still the same message but it's not delivered as nearly as well as it was at the first one well even oherly he's uh character right like the idea that in the first film he's this like kind of unknowing sort of ceo of the company and he's just kind of he's like the grandfather and he just like wants what's best for the company and he's not really complicit in some of the things dick jones is doing um and in the second film now he clearly is just like all about the bottom line and is like sleeping with one of his employees dr facts right like and so like then he really is a one-dimensional criminal where in the first film he's kind of just like uh like you know especially in the opening scene in the first film where you know they're they're demonstrating ed two oh nine and it's who and i just kills one of the executives and it's like this is horrible but then they like just like sweep him you know sweep up the floor and then just like you know move on to the next executive do we have another executive call him up um but uh so that in a way that's the satire and that was kind of silly and uh but that that dimensionality to that character is gone in the second film he now he kind of almost takes over the dick jones uh role where he's both the elder statesman the ceo and also pretty conniving and pretty horrible just even you know towards the end when he like detaches himself from dr facts where he's just kind of like you know like oh well you know we shouldn't back or we shouldn't support her or whatever and oh we'll hear that clip because that's the first one yes in the first one when i think dick jones refers to the the guy getting killed as a glitch he says a glitch and he's upset about it whereas in this one he feels like he walked off of halloween three and just walked into this like this is either he made it right after same guy so yeah that's well that's where the film you could see this how it's lesser in there and in both those films he was a true believer of whatever the thing was so you know in halloween three it was this pagan ritual right that he believed it and believed in the power of it and in this he sold that you know he needs to make money that money is his his power so that makes him less dimensional and um it also like in the first film when he said like what do you mean it was you know a glitch like that's like one of the only times somebody is actually like reasonable about like human life like where he's like i didn't find i founded this company on you know principles and and this type of thing and where in the second film he's not he's like i'm here to make money and i don't want to get sued that's like those are his motivators i want to make money and i don't want to get sued and i don't want to look bad publicly and the sense they do sort of mirror him and came and that cane also doesn't care about anybody cane is but on the opposite side where i i have no reason to think cane doesn't really believe that nuke is the future in his paradise i mean though he we sad scenes where he's not out in front of anybody and he's not saying oh we're gonna we're gonna addict everybody and i'm gonna own this city he never gets that way he never seems like a megalomaniac type he does seem to sincerely believe that what he's peddling out there is the best thing for everybody or can at least provide them an escape it's kind of the timothy leery type character where you know the lsd and like that this will expand your mind and i think he you know his character believes there's an illness and in in society you know because it is pretty messed up but unfortunately i think he he thinks nuke is the answer to that which i yeah probably not probably not a highly addictive drug it's not it doesn't seem like that unreasonable response to the world doing is okay we just need to escape and this is this is what i've come up with so you sort of go all right i can see how somebody could delude themselves into thinking this it's not completely out of nowhere i i i think it's a fantastic i'm like that was missing in the first film it was missing in that yes how are people dealing with this you know in in the first film it like even with the grocery store robbery or the liquor store robbery or the woman who gets assaulted like it's like you're like oh no people are still just trying to live this normal life and now in the second film with the introduced introduction of nuke you're seeing that a lot of people are just even kind of given up at this point now and are just you know addicted to nuke so after this intro sequence after he stops these people robbing the gun store rebel cop comes into one of the drug factories that that cane runs and cane his girlfriend wife whatever his lieutenant who's the greatest kid in the world and a couple of other people one who looks like he just fell out of a rockabilly uh right right henchmen he's classic henchmen guy like henchman looks yeah great guy you know bubble tie the whole thing you know looks like an elvis honky talker person his costume is his dimensionality like you're just like oh that guy's into like rockabilly so i mean she hangs out like with the stray cats on the weekends or whatever yeah and that's all i really need to know about it honestly i'm glad you didn't have to come to his back story i've told everything i need to buy his costume it's fantastic right so rebel cop of course comes in shoots a place up uh goes to shoot the kid and we get the kids first great line where you understand that this movie is not fucking around which is this okay shoot a kid can you fuck her i knew i love this kid as soon as i heard that i remember that very very distinctly because that's great as a kid you want to be able to swear up and down the kids got desert eagle as big as his head yeah shoots rebel cop in the face which triggers a memory flashback also done lesser than the first movie but right still it's good to see it is a quick reminder that yes murphy still has this thing where he has it let go over the past because you know you don't really know where he is and that will become a central at least a middle point where we're going to deal with that and then they just kind of throw it away there's i think they just try to wrap it up in this one scene with the wife and then be like okay now we're done with the back stuff because after that we never really go back to it the same way so we get that and we get the shoot out and uh there's a great scene where he ricochets a bullet off a door to kill is that grandi quade or i just think it's random quade looks like grandi quade i honestly don't know what was he doing in 1990 i don't know when did uh when did uh when did the national application yeah i mean it was i think it was 89 so unless he was in the guild at that time he could have worked he was in the union so he could he was available to work at that time it's not impossible so after the shoot out uh we then cut to the next day and this is where we get probably the last really big bit of murphy still remembering his old life and we see that he is hanging around where his wife or widow a guest technically yeah lives and he's clearly been doing this for a while and he's just kind of sitting there and it is creepy and you know you can understand why she's freaked out by it and that leads to what is a really great scene and this is a long clip but i want to play it because it has a lot of wellers really subtle acting it kind of it's the last bit of robocop struggling with his humanity that we're going to get at least in this movie so this is where they bring him in and we find out that stalking your wife as you might have already guest is probably not the best idea from a legal and moral standpoint so let's play this ocp defines you as a machine that utilizes some living tissue you understand that yes and so do you consider yourself human i require an answer stop babe you have any idea what you're doing to that poor woman take a look at her file go on officer mrs murphy is bringing suit against ocp my name is tom dillaney i'm representing her up to a few months ago she wouldn't leave her bedroom then there were the therapists and the hypnotists and the harmonic treatment and then you pull this shit driving past her house day after day spying on her trying to make her think her husband is still alive she's barely started to accept the loss you're ripping her to pieces and for what do you think you could ever be a husband to work i mean what can you offer her companionship love a man's love tape are you alex murphy no are you human no you are simply a machine i am a machine nothing more nothing more i'll do it stop tape and you stay there all right go get her let's speak decently so one thing that's really important to note is go back and re-listen to that and notice that when he's speaking sincerely there's no modulation on his voice when he says the first couple things before he reverts to either machine they're not putting an effect on his voice he's speaking just like peter well i would speak no softly but with no robotic tuning on his voice and as soon as they say okay are you a machine he says yes you can hear it pick up when he says i'm a machine it picks up right at the end and they add the effect back on and then he's speaking like that it's subtle but that's the clue on top of the fact that i like the fact that weller is speaking very softly he's emoting a lot with his i mean he has to there's nothing else that you can see of him he has to sit rock still it's all in his face but he's looking at the guy who's asking questions it's a beautiful scene because it shows why weller is so good in this role and they took the mass that the helmet off so you can see his whole face and the makeup is still dynamite like whatever other problems you may have with the movie yes that facial makeup is fantastic absolutely and you know it's one of those scenes where you're like oh good this is the depth that was in the first film this idea of and you know that was the big arc of murphy's character in the first film is like not losing his humanity and that was the question they were asking in the first film really is he now just a robot or is he still Alex Murphy or is he robocop like is he a third thing and i think the first film decided at least like you know the way it ends with like you know what should i call you kid and it's like murphy so he sees himself still being you know Alex Murphy and i think this is a great scene too because we see this lawyer a few times this ocp representative a few times in the film and it it's the bob morton character over again like this like corporate like you know guy who's like an executive or a lawyer and he he's like kind of the the sergeant or this enforcer of the corporate you know way of doing business where like we're going to sue you know we need to get you on tape and we need you to you know say these things you're you're bringing us you're going to cost us money and legal issues and he continues to play the same lawyer is it throughout the film continues to play the role of the same things that you know Dan or early he is worried about you know where it's like are we going to continue to make money and not get sued or you know publicly look bad so then this lawyer is sort of his enforcer and it kind of you know brings sort of brings him into um it just brings that other character of this like so there's like violence and lawlessness but still there's corporate law which is like it which is like like you said this is a darker film because i feel like it's just like even more depressing where you have like the criminals are running amok the police are on strike but yet there's still this like corporate way of doing things that doesn't really care about feelings doesn't care about humanity it's really just about money and avoiding lawsuits yeah they do a good job of i think correctly portraying one of the things that makes corporations so evil which is the person at the very top never has to associate with anybody lower he's only we're concerned about the stuff at the top which to some degree makes the morality murky because there's no awareness but that doesn't make it any less evil whereas like you said the lawyer who i'm pretty sure that guy was one of the main villains in the dominion or sorry one of the main carasians in deep space not i have to get that out there because it keeps banging around on my head like a pinball but he says oh can you offer her a man's love which is a very specific like you know you have nothing left below the neck right right right which is also kind of a call back to me go for her saying take the arm off i don't care don't say right but that's the body horror that's the body horror of it that like the mutilation or that you're not really a person and you know people who have you know disabilities or like lose legs or lose arms or lose ability you know uh you know lose ability to move uh certain parts of their body that's all part of that like body horror kind of context where you're you lose a function of part of your body or it gets mutilated and then you start to question your humanity which was such a big part of the first one and here is is being dealt with again which i think like you said this is a really important scene because it's like really rich and it's it's dealing with his character you know robocop character or Alex Murphy and what his arc is going to be in this movie which i thought i thought i thought he would revisit that i thought we would go back to where he actually has a relationship with his wife at the end where not i don't mean like a you know just one where they like are in a park i was like i was looking to see the 90s movie where they're like in a park at the end just being like sure playing with the kid and it's kind of weird but you know it's just like they still have some friendship or relationship it's not you know uh husband and wife but that's what i thought was inevitable which was coming and then like he said it just kind of like it's like okay we're done we're done with that basically he says i'm not your husband uh i'm just a machine get lost and then we see her having a breakdown in her car and then that's the end of it that's that that is basically which i was like seal it up and i thought that was like great this is going to be something now we're going to have action and stuff is going to blow up but somehow there's going to be this woman who like just lost her composure once again in the car because like i love how the lawyer described to like how she like went through all this therapy she went through all this stuff and now she can like get out of bed and like basically function and him keeps showing up like that is just further tormenting him so i i thought it was a great setup for there to be some type of arc where they do have some type of relationship at the end or some type of finality to or some way they could interact like i said i was waiting to see them like in a park with the kid and it's like while he's not really Alex Murphy it's not her husband but they can still you know have a friendship or something i you know like i was movie they probably would have tried to get to that but this is not that movie this movie basically says okay i mean literally it is like that scene is all right we're done with this now now we're going to move on to what we actually care about which is the the main plot of cane and everything going on there and this is by the way you know we're almost a half hour into this movie and this is a lot of setup so we're you know where the movie is along it's just short of two hours we're a quarter into it and we're still not really sure what is going to be going on here but then we cut do we know who the villain we don't even know who the villain like the main villain is going to be yeah well the only the only real anything of him we got was way at the beginning so you may have forgotten that 20 minutes later it's very reasonable that everything else going on here and as you said i'm sure a lot of people are like oh this is going to be the center of the film is Murphy and his wife and can he somehow you know because all the stuff with her and what she's going through is completely understandable yeah she's essentially looking i mean if you don't know it looks like they took your your the person you love's face and stretched it onto a machine that kills people which is horrifying and like in that her facial expressions and when she's like running behind the fence or whatever and then they show her later like breaking down in her car i was like yeah dude i thought to myself i was like what if my you know my sister or somebody i knew one of my loved ones like what if this happened to them like what if they turned them into you know a cyborg like that that was like terrifying and also like heartbreaking so i was like that's that's really interesting i mean that's more interesting than a purple purple armor like to me i was like that that that this could be a really solid foundation to kind of um you know build off or that you find that out and they tell you oh dad what we know we we we we honored him by putting in this machine and then it starts showing up at your house so you're then you're like well wait so is it is he really dead or is he in there because it's worse if he's stuck in there and he can't get out then you're sitting there going you've imprisoned him which is what it is i mean that is what is going on here but again this movie kind of just doesn't wait with that it gives us a little bit of it done very well i sort of wonder if that's why weller came back was he read some of these scenes and went oh okay this is this is interesting and the rest of it will just be special effects and i'm getting paid a lot of money so there's that too why not all right so then we get a another very funny commercial about a guy who kills himself because he didn't have the right phone communication system which is beautifully done and that's that does feel like the first movie so there are these kind of peaks and valleys throughout this whole movie right and then we cut to a scene at OCP where now we get an explanation because there was that little line at the beginning where the police officer said it's like OCP wants to strike and i don't know why and then to counterbalance completely from peter weller's subtle nuance low voice performance we get the mayor of detroit who is divisive i love him i think his hysterical you'll hear it is just over the top performance is hilarious some people hate it they think it's exactly the worst impulses this film i think it's delightful and it's comedic and now we're going to hear some of it so you're going to get uh the this is the meaning between the heads of OCP and the mayor and his lawyer so here we go it's all a bit fisted dignity of my office that to come to you johnson my apologies for the slight inconvenience you honor 20 minutes in rush hour traffic isn't slight not when you're the mayor of a major american city all right let's get the business when are you going to stop paying the cops so they'll go back to work we're not a charity the city owes us over thirty seven million dollars well you'll have to cut us some slack our deadlines are deadline sorry how are we supposed to raise that kind of money with things the way they are you aren't what the hell is he talking about we don't expect you to pay let me refer you to our contract in the event of default OCP shall have the uncontested right of foreclosure on all city assets you sign this so you're saying we miss one payment you can fall close we can and we will we're taking Detroit private so you deliberately undermined our credit that was the easy part any engineer to please strike you want to draw it to tear itself apart so you can raid it like a wood in the other corporation do you know how many people are dying out there you'll murder us i'd advise you to say nothing further it might be action it's bullshit bullshit you seen our old bastard all right come close it i think we better get out of here i'm okay calm down i think we better come on calm down okay easy it's okay all right good i'm in control every leg it's fine it's okay one last thing gentlemen we will sue your asses give it your best shot fuck you you'll see now bastard this is bullshit i never that scene kills me every time it's like it's one of those scenes where i just laugh i just love the fuck you you see that like it's great it's great i love it i wouldn't change a thing about it yeah and i love the idea that the mayor is like cut like even the mayor uh you know kuzak is like he's even a little rough around the edges too so like this is supposed to be the representative of the people and even he doesn't really know how to navigate the corporate sort of landscape that's going on so it just kind of shows that even the people who were you know electing to represent us here in this dystopian detroit uh like they're not even savvy to this corporate world i i love his acting and i love the portrayal of the sort of over-the-top mayor but i feel like his whole like monologue there where he's yelling you're gonna rate us like you did one of these like other corporations i feel like that was the subtle like plot to the whole first film where it never got said but that's exactly what was happening right so it's almost like i'm sitting watching the first movie going i'm like i'm like these motherfuckers are gonna take detroit basically liquidate it like some corporation and then build a city on top of the ruins of the old city i'm like that's ridiculous and in this scene he just kind of you know through the exposition of his monologue he basically describes that so i don't know that that was one thing about this film is that i feel like a lot of times the stuff in the first film that they were letting us come to conclusions to or we were kind of being like wait what now like wait they're doing what i'm like you know there was a lot of characters explaining to us um you know the messaging or what was going on and i i feel like even even the audience to robocop is intelligent enough to kind of understand that you know so it felt like less like satire and more like it was explaining it to us i felt like they thought there were going to be kids in the audience for some reason i thought it so like the first movie was for adults and this one was for a little bit younger demographic that might not be able to pick up on the subtleties of the first film yeah either that or they really just felt like american audiences were dumb and maybe that was what it is because you're right in the first film there are little lines that are sprinkled around but they're very quick and they're small like there's one part where when uh Morton and Jones are talking to each other and he says i had ed to and i lined up the military who's going to buy it they were they had him and he's like who cares if it worked like that line tells you everything we had the body secured that was beautiful yeah quick and done and then you just keep moving and you understand where the greed comes from where is this like you said it's a whole wait a minute so you're gonna have four clothes yes and we knew it all along we've got it right it's very very heavy-handed because that's when somebody's doing something like that they wouldn't admit to you but they're they're being like oh it's a government contract i just wanted the money they would say like well who cares if it works don't don't get involved in the details like who cares if it works we we've got the money we secure the contract we'll figure it out we've got scientists who will make it work like we we need to get this done and i'm like that is the most corporate way of thinking about it in corporate speak and you're right that's a wonderful scene that happens in the restroom where they're standing yeah where this is you know kind of an over-the-top mayor um but i do love mayor kuzak's character because as the film progresses we we kind of seen like we're like oh man like this is the guy that's the representative of of the people like this like how do you get hired for this job yeah well it does indicate that the corruption is everywhere but i also think that his manic performance is good because if they were just speaking in the same tone it would be very boring but his kind of histrionic reaction yeah it sort of distracts me from the fact that it's just exposition dub i'm just like oh this guy this guy is riveting i could watch because oh early early is just sitting there very calm and speaking low right he's just going crazy and it's it's a nice that contrast i like what they're saying is hello audience here's what's happened like chalkboard you might have a chalkboard where somebody's writing on it plot of movie corporations equals evil you know it's it's very very in your face it's very over it's not doing it with subtlety and you know nuance and metaphor it's doing it with here's exactly what's going to happen and so but but but here's the thing though here's the thing though i agree with you i love that it happens maybe not the you know the exposition but i love that it happens because it shows the mayor is out of his league oh you know yeah you know the old man o cp president i said you sign this i mean that's that's the major line is did you even read this did you have anyone look at this so because you because you got to you got to be like wait how did a city give over their police force to a corporation how would how would people let that happen and it's like well the people are disenfranchised and then their elected officials are incompetent that's how it happens and that line where he says you sign this that's kind of uh well who cares if it worked if they kind of stopped right around there absolutely you signed it because you should have signed it it's like a one-line thing that says you're an idiot how how are you you're in charge it's a very that part is great and that just keeps going and that's what sort of starts deadening it and pulling out the power of it and his lawyer sits there and his lawyer sits there and it's like you know you should be careful what you're saying because anything further could be actionable actionable what a great word you know what that means too which is like like you know it's not guys being like yeah you want to go you want to like oh fuck you up it's like that behavior could be actionable by a lawsuit and it's like so that there's like these men in suits threatening to sue each other and it's just and the whole time the mayor is just completely he just seems inept and then we don't know at that point if he's corrupt or not but we know he's inept and he's out of his league with this uh with OCP and as you say as the movie progresses we find out he's not only inept but corrupt too right and so then we get a scene immediately following that where uh the old man i don't think they ever say his name they always know he's known as the old man yeah right so the old man is walking and then they immediately go from that to okay we're losing a bunch of money trying to make robocop too they never really indicate until way at the end of the film why they're not or why they're making another one because robocop seems to be doing pretty well right and the whole idea of him was he was supposed to patrol the whole city and be able because he was invulnerable basically right he could just take care of crime so you don't really get a reasoning why they want a second one for a long time at the very end they sort of explain it but i think it's it feels like they just shoehorned in the say well should we explain why we made this do we need a reason maybe well the reason clearly the clear reason is that we need something for robocop to fight at the end of the movie because i feel like in the first one i will say that one of the negative parts of the first movie was that there was not an awesome showdown between ed two oh nine and robocop i feel like it was the indiana jones scene where he pulls out the large gun and just blows up ed two oh nine so i was like we in the second film i would buy the ticket to be like i want to see robot on robot fight like let's do it we do get some of that so we do get it we do in the first movie i think that the joke was of course that ed two and i couldn't go downstairs i mean it was just that okay yes who cares if it works who cares if it works so it does yeah it does need to be like that because it underscores that bob that dig jones was a complete and utter well just corporate asshole yeah better living through science or better living through corporations like ocp is going to promise this better delta city new detroit and it's like no man your products are crap and we're just losing our morality and our humanity that's all right and we're getting a inferior product that can't go up and downstairs because somebody forgot to be like have you tested this in an urban environment you know yeah absolutely can it can it navigate a incline of any kind with a step you know okay great let's let's make a thousand of them yeah so then we get the demonstration of the robo katu program which is my favorite bit of the whole movie it is by far the funniest thing in the whole movie yeah there's no point in playing clips of it because it's all visual yeah but you have to go find it if you've never seen the movie just watch the robo katu failures the best one is the one that pulls his head off and screams and falls over which is just yeah that's where you sit sit here and go this movie is not a complete train wreck there are right funny right and it just it shows that they're still making the same mistakes they can't get that they got lucky one time with this and that's it it's the body horror of it too is that like if you woke up one morning and half of your body was now mechanical how would you react to that you would probably rip you would probably flip out and that is the whole point of this it's like you know the first film is like corporations versus humanity right like we're unique we're individuals we have these spirits we have maybe souls but the corporation is like no there's corporate law there's organization there's you know you we have to protect you from yourself it also i think this this is one of the places where i think the movie does either because they didn't realize what their messaging was or they were trying to be subtle which it could be either one it may have an accident it may have an purpose it does reinforce the idea that every human being is unique so murphy worked and the corporation's view is let's just take another cop slam them in the can and we'll have another one that's like no it's not that simple people aren't built that way and it wasn't just robocop it was Alex Murphy who is special like robocop is not a mass manufactured product it's this one person happened to have such you know i think it was like murphy you know because he was like he had such a sense of sort of duty to be a police officer and he wanted you know that that's what made him transcend and i think the the connection to cane is fantastic because murphy is motivated by his honor and his desire to be a cop and to protect people and to uphold the law right like he does he has this like john wane type of thing but i think it's great how the film then goes into the nuance of what actually motive would motivate cane and what would actually motivate somebody to be in a robot suit if they didn't have this overwhelming sense of duty and this is going to be the clip where the doctor kind of explains what her theory because this is where we start to get okay now we know how we're going to get to the the machine later is okay you guys are trying this it's not working so maybe there's a different approach so this is our introduction to doctor facts our real introduction to her and her immediate zeroing in on the fact that the old man is a sexist pig and that there's ways to make that work to her advantage they all go crazy robots with emotional problems no sir no sir not robots cyber works cybernetic organisms we use living human tissue and that's our whole problem the candidates were all fine men respected police officers i reviewed their files myself sir police officers may not be the best candidates for our purposes they're a physical bunch then macho body proud finding themselves stripped of all that it's no wonder they become suicidal our one success was a cop well yes mr johnson alex murphy top of his class devout irish catholic family man everything in his profile indicates a fierce sense of duty that's probably what kept him alive with all due respect doctor facts your area of expertise is psychology not robotics there's no harm in hearing the young lady out is the johnson no sir thank you sir i believe that murphy's case was unusual but not unique we can find someone else someone to whom the prospect might even be desirable i've never met anyone who wanted to be a robot well it would require a screening process one i'd be happy to supervise the cost would be negligible and uh be shamed waste all the work that's been done wouldn't it it certainly would my dear go to it report to me directly yes sir you could learn a thing or two from that girl johnson keywords desirable young lady like it's all okay we're picking up what this is right away and she jumps on it as a way to further i mean her goal of i guess trying to make yeah a monstrous cyborg which it doesn't make sense what she says does have a logic to it that you know uh that somebody who as you said is now suddenly a robot and and has what may be the missing something and they go wait a minute this is what my whole personality was built around and it's gone whereas somebody who is consumed with power might only care about the fact that they have more power the physical side of things may not matter to them which is what ends up being the case with canes so it doesn't there is a logic to it but it is also right away you understand that okay well if cops are supposed if this is supposed to be a law enforcement officer wouldn't your robot wouldn't you want them to be cops who else would you use and who would want that kind of power and since we know canes in the movie well i mean any audience member is going to uh okay right you started connecting you're like how is he related to all this um and once again that kind of follows the thread earlier with the wife and with robocop kind of saying i'm just a robot and the corporation making him say on tape you're just you're just a robot say it say it sign here you're just a robot and then later in in a private boardroom meeting they're like this guy's not just a robot he's a special case and like we're you know he's this unique person and his wife is so distraught over it but then they're flipping it around and saying but what about the person in the actual you know a cyborg suit who what about them so this is a really this is like one of the strongest parts of the movie is that they're playing around with this idea of how would your relatives react to you being this way how would you as the person now half robot react to it and then even how the corporation has to convince you you know convince Murphy he's not a human or anything special but then in the same breath realize that he's such a rare thing and how can they like you said earlier how can they make a hundred of them how can they manufacturers and mass produce it what's the what's the key ingredient they're missing right and I clearly the key ingredient is you know humans are people and you know each each person is unique and that doesn't flow with the mass production mass marketing sort of goals of a corporation and incidentally we do get a little insult to injury because Johnson points at the original armor the gray armor is on a stand behind them so I think the idea was supposed to be although they never specifically say that this is better body armor and that's why I guess they had to give it a chromatic blue purple paint job don't you love how Johnson is in this movie again too like I love because there's always that one guy in a company that just through all the like you know there's lawsuits yeah and he just happens to he's he's not too high up you know he didn't extend as far as Bob Morton did he's he's not sleeping with the old man but he's just there he's in the mix and you know he's there throughout the first film and he makes it through unscathed all the way in the second film too so I think that's 22 there's those like corporate cockroaches that just like they never go away well and it makes a lot of sense in the context of the first film Dick Jones was gunning for his job he was talking about the old man's not going to be around forever and it was very obvious that he was trying to get rid of him as fast as possible so that guy wanting to stay in charge would pick somebody who's a sycophant as opposed to somebody with ambition so Johnson is the perfect choice for that somebody who's literally walking the same as him following him around like a puppy it's like okay this guy doesn't need to be my successor but he will accept being my successor when I point to him and say it's your job now which means you know I'm basically dead so it that does have an intelligence again there's parts of this movie that seem absolutely and seems smart and that's one of them because yeah you wouldn't do another Dick Jones we saw how that went so we need to have somebody who's more controllable just like everything I mean that's the that's the corporate structure what can we control so RoboCop then goes to an arcade where he finds my favorite kid in any film that's ever been and he finds a corrupt cop there so again the corruption angle within the police force themselves yeah but we have one scene where the cop is strangling Lewis and we get another brilliant little piece of dialogue so let me play this oh i love it that kid is great this is like how old is he in this film too i feel like he's still a minor at this point like i don't know how yeah 12 13 yeah i mean he might be 14 but he can't imagine he's much over that he just unless he just looks really young and he might but he looks really young yeah and listen he's got a briefcase machine gunny unfolds and he's firing it it's i as a kid was like that's who i want to be right there this kid's got it all man he's got it under control it's great so what do you think what do you and we can talk more about this as we go through his scenes but why was he there in the film was i i go two ways was it to connect to the younger audience that's inevitably watching this movie or because at that point you know like i think very you know young kids under 18 didn't see probably the first RoboCop maybe they did but maybe there's this was a pg 13 movie now wasn't it wasn't the second one only pg 13 it might have been let me check i don't remember our fan so let's take a look yeah RoboCop 2 RoboCop 2 was what's the rating on this thing okay give me everything but the rating here come on where's the rating the rating i don't need to sign into a stupid account where i was down at the bottom right so let's see down here it says really there's no rating come on look at pedia help me out here what's the rating seriously there's no ratings on anything there's nobody unbelievable RoboCop 2 on IMDB what does it say did i miss it you see it i do not i don't see the rating anywhere this used to be well this is IMDB for everybody this is IMDB it used to be really helped are there it is i see it rating certificate or they call it certificate yeah okay so it's still our kind of feeling it might be from the cursing um i have right there has to be there has to be yeah yeah and so is it then is it is it RoboCop 3 that's the pg 13 so they like yes that one's the cartoon they pulled it back it just becomes a saturday morning cartoon before they actually made a cartoon out of RoboCop which there are many very funny videos analyzing why you would take RoboCop and make it into a kids cartoon since he's a murder machine but they're again but there was this there was this weird thing at the time though there was a lot of kids that were interested and you know um there was even uh there's a robot i mean it makes sense he's a robot right and he was involved in the uh he was somebody's a bodyguard one of the wrestlers bodyguard so he was doing a lot of other like sort of pop culture type things that maybe younger audiences were were aware of so like so then they were going to the movie so i don't know if that's why the kid was in there or i think like in in a vera hovin uh a vera hovin type style the kid would be like there to just be like this future is so effed up that a 13 year old kid is running a gang like you know where you just be like man even the kids are bad like the kid you know like like uh so i so i couldn't tell if what what the reason was for and and why the kid was there and young um and it just seemed odd so you have kane you have angie his his girlfriend or whatever that it's complicated and then a 13 year old kid hobb uh bazaar yeah i i mean i i ever read any specific reasoning i haven't seen anything about why it was it works for me on a couple levels one is that there is a shock value to a child swearing and shooting people that's that's what i think it reinforces exactly what you said the idea that this is such a bad future we have gone so far down the dystopian cynical thing that even children are now capos in a drug ring with you know with with a cult leader i also feel like there's this thing where kane specifically wanted that kid to be the next came to be him when he was gone because we only really see i mean we have foot soldiers all over the place but the main people we see are kane angie like you said this kid hobb is the kid's name and then those two muscle guys and those two guys are basically bodyguards we see them shooting we see them getting shot at they never seem to have any intelligence or really any major independent thought whereas the kid seems to actually be running the business of the drug ring right as we see him making deals when kane is gone he puts on a suit where there's this whole corporate kid angle too where it's like this is the corporate element of drug dealing that this kid is the ruthless corporate mind like almost like kane envisions the drug but couldn't figure out how to sell it and then found this kid who was really good at math and said well do you know how to do booking and accounting and the kids like sure what do you want me to do is like do you want to be in a drug gang all right do i get a box gun that i can unfold yes you get that i'm in and that's like where the whole thing is but that's what makes it work is it's such a disparate element of what we're used to in these types of movies and in these types of organizations to have this very young child who is acting adult he's not acting like a child until he dies that's the only time right and acts like a young child where he is scared other than that he's never afraid he's running things you know the thing where he gives uh duffy the cop the money and he says well don't you want to count it he's like no no i trust he's like you should really count it that's a very specific like thoughtful like he's more jaded the kid is more jaded than a corrupt cop who's addicted to nuke they're somehow a 13-year-old kid is more jaded than that cop like that just yeah give him give him nuke and he's like then oh i don't mean he's like yeah you do yeah something for his conscience like it's very yeah he is the most ruthless person outside of the old man like he and the old man are the same person opposite ends of life and in the opposite like occupations right you know to the point where like cane is like i'm giving you for the city cane is like i'm giving you nuke to for freedom or to reach paradise this kid's like oh no this will keep you under my thumb because if you're addicted to this then you gotta keep coming back which is like the worst dealer like that's the you know that's uh that's the dealer that laces things with fentanyl that kills half the people so that more people want his product like it's just like that is the vicious end of of of uh you know drug dealing so well it's kind of the the Steve Jobs Steve Wozniak angle where Wozniak was the dreamer who was making the computers who had the technical knowledge and jobs is like i know how to sell this right you go ahead and dream about a future where everybody's got a free computer i know how to sell computers and that's what i'm going to do i'm going to make these people buy into what i'm doing that's cane in the kid yeah is that's their dynamic is the kid is like this is how this works you want to have money i'll make you the money they never explicitly say it but every time there's an interaction cane is always like how do we make the drug more dreamy man here let me see yeah yeah okay my teeth are chattering so you're gonna have to lower the blah blah blah blah the technical side of things yeah and the kids like okay i gotta pay this cop all right i'm gonna go here meet this guy we're gonna get the deal done all that stuff is happening and you know even cane is visible is costumed and comes off like a 60s drug addict yeah like he's got the big frizzy hair he's got the loose clothes yeah kind of leading back all the time and like half interested in what's going on and the kid has got the perfectly moose hair right he's always in tight clothing he's got the gun in a briefcase like he's ready yeah he's always just got his hands in his pockets he's just standing there as like what rebel cop huh huh all right i'm gonna leave see you guys later and just kind of strolls down yeah so it's a really smart dynamic and again the fact that they cast this young kid gives it this this shock angle that is one of the things that everybody remembers about the movie it's what it's my favorite as far as like decisions on what you're doing in the movie outside of bringing weller and Nancy Allen back what you need because they're so good together that kid is the best casting decision even better than Tom Noonan who i really like yeah that kid you cannot not look at that kid and the fact that they let him swear and didn't just make him talk in business terms no he's saying fuck and fuck you and he's shooting people and that makes him like adult it's like an adult kid but you can't get your brain to put the pieces together right and that's that's great i think i love it like one of my favorite bits of this movie which i wonder if if the original concept was to have that just be sort of like a corporate stooge type person like like the lawyer character for the old man at ocp you know just this i this like sort of intermediary right the person who can sell it the person who can keep it in order but you're right it would just not have the same effect if it wasn't a 13 year old kid i should have tried to look into how that kid got cast i really i feel like there has to be a story to that because that's just it's such a kids vicious kids like there's things with kids that aren't done right this is one of those things we have a kid who's acting like it the only thing that they were smart about and i think they probably very very early on when they said okay it's going to be a kid there is no romantic thing with angie that cannot happen we put a seal between the two of them so even when they're on their own because when i remember when i first watched it as a kid you're like wow there's this gorgeous woman that he's now got for himself because kane's gone there's a child if you're an immature young man you're like aha score right but you don't know what to do like you don't know what to do like that but but see that's why i was like are they speaking to the younger audience because that would be like a young boy's fantasy would be like oh i've got this like hot babe that like hangs out with me and i'm like in charge but like i wouldn't like kiss her but like you know it would be cool to have cool babes around because that's what guys like do so like even the way his character was portrayed even after you know kane's out of the picture is just like this is like a like a 12 year old boy or 13 year old boy's fantasy but like it's so like not realistic you know and even just like the fact that he's thinking yeah he's level headed because she wants to go rescue kane out of the hospital he's like what are you kidding right that's the best scene he's like use your head angie use your head angie and then he like gives her drugs that he's like he gives her drugs to be like get right angie get right get your get your head and we're gonna hear a clip of i cannot resist i just could swear and we're gonna hear it all so but uh but before we get to that because that is great so uh so robo cop beats up duffy throws him into an arcade cabinet and gets the location which we then find out is a trap so he shows up at what looks like a there's a skeletonized Elvis there which is never explained it's kind of like the watermelon and buckaroo bonsai it's like yeah i'll tell you about it later and uh you know we never get a fazberry or yeah sure hey anything you want that's the explanation so they get through this factory which is another i was like okay this is robo cop one they're in an abandoned factory it looks very industrial it's very rusty so they're you know similar i guess gangs in detroit they all have to hang out these abandoned industrial factories apparently well this by the way this felt like i'm like did they just like copy and paste like the the the scene which was so affected from the first movie where you know he's kind of lured into he and nancy ellen are lured uh into this warehouse and then you know he's a traumatic event happens to our you know murphy yeah and uh uh Lewis isn't with him so he's on his own but yes they basically is a recreation of the murphy slaughter except that what they do is they really cut him into pieces yeah and dump him at the police station which is great because they made this whole animatronic of him which you can tell it's an animatronic but it's a pretty good one i mean it it looks like weller it's it's got the movement it's creepy it's it's disturbing because he's all cut up and he's malfunctioning they have his bicep pops out and it says emergency malfunction which is great for whatever reason that they would be what you would build is the emergency like he flexes this thing comes out and says i'm fucked and it's like all right uh interesting i don't know what we're saying there but you know we're like it yeah and so then we get a great scene with the scumbag lawyer who comes in and says robo cops off warranty and you know maybe we'll fix them or maybe we'll just you know throw them out um and then we get a great scene where we see duffy is brought to the drug hideout and this is a great scene as far as right came to the kid where they basically start cutting uh duffy open while he's alive and by the way the guy who's cutting him open is one of the uh lead one of the main actors in the beginning of twin peaks firewalk with me he plays uh sheriff cable because i that guy's so distinctive looking yeah but he starts cutting him open and the kid looks away and king grabs his head and turns it back so he has to watch yeah and then angie has this and i should have clipped this but it was too long a scene but angie says i thought you were just going to scare him and tom because he goes what doesn't he looks scared and his delivery is so good yeah it's just yeah it's it's all the thing about king is just doesn't care he's just so disconnected but not maliciously he just doesn't care because it's like with heroin i you know from what i've read of how you just don't care about anything like i think it shows i think it yeah i think it shows that he's like disconnected and at the same time maybe he understands something that the rest of us don't or maybe he's just a psychopath like and i think they play that really well which is like kind of like the cult leader thing you're like wait is this guy actually telling the truth or is this like a ponzi scheme so you can take all my money and have sex with multiple women like you know you know what i mean like i think so they're playing around with that like does this actually guy is this actually guy know the truth about what would save detroit or is he just another psychopath instead of being in a suit suit and being a corporate lawyer he's a drug addict i always read it as he sincerely believes in what he's saying yeah whether or not he knows what that means outside of himself but he doesn't and if it's yeah and if it's something that's like healthy or like actually the truth or just psychotic yeah right doesn't matter so they ultimately do rebuild robocop and uh doctor facts decides that okay you know what um we need to we need to get you more into what the corporate idea of you is and since we're already putting you back together why don't we start tinkering with things so we get this great scene where uh not only is she meeting with local people in the community but then she talks to robocop and explains her method of psychology and now you start to get i think a sense of why she's into cybernetics mhm robocop's command program his uh his set of directives it determines his behavior it's time to update the program and i would like to hear from each one of you it's about time he asked us well we're getting a lot of heat and i mean a lot of it from the parents groups personally i don't blame them i'm a parent myself all that destructive behavior he's become a role model for our children now what are we teaching them you have a point if he just talks things out with people instead firing that big gun of his couldn't he take a little time to adjust environmental issues excuse me what was that he could speak out on environmental issues don't see any reason why not for all the shooting he does i've never once seen him take the time to do anything nice like uh visit an orphanage you're absolutely right or help a cat out of a tree or or gold door to door collecting for the red cross or maybe even uh roasting some marshmallows with some cub scouts why mr johnson that is wonderful thank you so much so this is basically we then get a scene where she's programming him with 300 plus directives you know so johnson saying what he's saying as okay you people are morons this is supposed to be a police officer we're not going to have him talking about you know whether you should be littering or not but of course she wants to i think the idea here is sandbag him and make him into an inept officer so that her new robocop will seem superior and so she programs him with all this junk and then we get a very funny scene where they show up at a store that is i think it's an electronic store this is one of my favorite this is one of my favorite scenes of the movie yeah yeah kids it's beautiful we're a little lead team and their coach are robbing this guy and it's a bunch again there is a coach is there and he's like yeah it's like a teamwork because the coach is like you know counting the bills up while the team works together as a group to loot and beat up this whole man the big up this old guy and so robocop shows up Lewis shoots the guy dead because he's firing at them and then he starts reading of the rights and there's this whole joke about morphe's dead and robocop like puts his hands together and goes i'm having trouble and he's like lecturing the kids and i think when the kid says he's fucked up or something like that and then he just run out and so you very clearly get this idea that robocop cannot function that he's got so many competing things in his head that he can't work right meanwhile we then get a scene where because this at this point she kills king by pulling his life support and then we get the scene you're talking about where angie and hob are in the car and they're discussing what their next moves are and this is again where if you haven't seen the movie you might be wondering where the relationship with these two is going to go but you're going to hear that as far as hob's concerned it's all business what the hell are you talking about it's like you don't even care do what i say angie he'd want us to come for him just forget about it because it's not going to happen i'm through arguing with you and i'm not asking for your permission king is in the hospital because we're going to get him do you really yet thought this out now what about the cops we've got guns dammit hog king needs us fuck king he'd kill you if you heard you say he's not going to kill anybody you heard the news shit he's probably dead already you just shut the hell up you know those like that again and it's no more new for you bitch oh oh this kid this kid is great so yeah here we get it it's like no hob knows what has to happen angie's being you know all we have to go back she's loyal hob is not hob is and this is what i mean about all business hob understands that king is not necessary for everything to keep going there has to be a next step and clearly has no affection for him which is interesting because it's almost the kind of thing with johnson and the old man with king and the kid where you know does king know and want him to be this ruthless even though you would think at some point if you if you game this out a few years like ten years when this kid kill king at some point and just keep going yeah it seems that got right he's a ruthless kid which is why i love him so much but it doesn't seem like it's at some point he would determine king is a liability to the you know and and you know he's just a liability to the business and would have to eliminate him it would make more fiduciary sense to not have him and have somebody that could interact with mayors and corporate executives yeah so as speaking of interfacing with corporate executives cane is his brain eyes and spinal cord are extricated from his body which is a beautiful scene because it is both horrifying and hilarious because you see this pair of staring eyeballs as they're holding his empty skull and talking about him and they put him into this new body and they determined that the control mechanism for him speaking of thinking corporately and not thinking about what the actual ramifications are they decide that they'll keep him on a leash by dangling nuke in front of him because they know that's the only thing that came actually cares about that of everything else that he doesn't give a shit about in the universe nuke is the one thing that he does want and it sort of makes sense in a short-term way and this is this is a typical corporate thing little hint here is short-term thinking oh yeah okay that makes sense long-term hold on that might become a problem layer but they don't think in long-term they think in the short term so then we get this meeting where the the city is going to go into default we had that set up much earlier and then we see that the mayor is called in the telethon and is told oh we have somebody who can save the city and because the mayor is so desperate this is in the middle of a marathon where a guy is playing a fiddle as he distorts his body which is very fun that there are these great comedic elements like the lesser parts of the movie but that's yeah the corporate world they're moving and shaking they're building they're putting human bodies into robots and meanwhile the mayor is tap dancing at a telethon to raise ten dollars like i think it just it goes to show it's like he's completely outclassed he's like completely out of his element and these corporations are just doing what they you know they're changing worlds right at one point they show the the board where the money is and they need thirty seven million and they're up to forty seven hundred dollars after however long this thing is tonight yeah so then the lawyer for the uh mayor we find out oh corruption again is secretly working for ocp and reports back that hey uh somebody is offering to pony up the money for the city and here again i i forgot because i was used to the first me like oh yeah ocp and this drug gang they're not aligned so they wouldn't know what each other are doing this is actually a threat to them and so the old man says well uh whatever you gotta do do it and i don't want any witnesses and that's all i want to say about it so again the overt evilness is right out on display like there is no substitute he's just like go wipe him out and so what that means is they're going to now deploy their new toy which is of course they call it robo cop two which i both find funny and stupid and the fact is that they call it robo cop two yeah why not title your film yeah but they wouldn't they wouldn't be creative they're not going to call it something fantastical it's a corporate product so it's robo cop version two yeah that's why it works for me as much as it's silly it works and there are parts like that throughout the world where it's like well this is really silly but it's working for me so then the mayor goes out to this extremely bad part of town and meets with hob and this is their discussion where the mayor's basically starts off like no we can't make this deal but hob talks a good game this is why i love this kid so much and you can actually see and you can sort of understand how the mayor starts off by saying oh okay this is a kid you're going to give me a dollar to you know what you're making a lot of sense to me i wonder if any of you could help me i'm looking for a mr hob so how much you need money i mean well i occurred at the ocp is 37 million four hundred and eighty thousand nine hundred and eleven dollars guess you're in some pretty deep shit well you need all the help we can get young man tell you what put me down for fifty just to make sure if this is fifty dollars you don't be a queer fifty million well will fifty do it oh yes that'll do it don't you guys think that'll do it yeah 50 mil that will do it for god's sake one of these people are criminals why do you have to legal people i hate labels you shut up but we cannot capitulate in the war on crime i've had devoted out office i don't think anyone wants that war on crime's fine with us it's business we're talking about here do you have any idea how many people we employ you know i i never thought about it like that sure so the war on crime you want to win it or what we are the only chance you have listen to him he's got it all worked out why drugs people do drugs because they want drugs they kind of cost too much nuke gives high quality at a cheap price and if you get off our backs we're going to make it cheaper and safer we don't go shoving our shit down anybody's throat and we don't advertise it like they do with cigarettes or booze so leave us alone and anybody who wants it gets it no more crimes you get to be the mayor who cleaned up the toy he's got a point don't you think he's got a point beautiful scene beautiful scene because like i said he's so outclassed by a kid this kid is talking him in circles it's like yeah this makes a lot of sense i don't know i got ghost busters vibes like lenny think of how many registered voters lives you'll have saved like i just made the lives millions of registered voters yeah like him out of here oh yeah it's it's that's a that's a well done scene well yeah it's it again Hobbes business this is business the morality is again he's the corporate mirror in the drug side and he he's dressed in a suit he looks like he should be in a boardroom and that's exactly what he's doing is the same type of justifications that are made many times of immoral or at their least morally great things that big companies will do this kid is doing that with drugs he's saying i don't know look we're not advertising great point i mean he's not wrong he's like we're not making people do this the only reason they're doing illegal things is because they can't afford this so let us bring those prices down and not only do we give him what we want but now you have a cleaner better city it makes sense to somebody desperate and dumb it makes complete sense that he would want that to you but it's an argument you know it's an argument that even comes up in real society about like you know people are going to do drugs anyways so how do we make it safer do we have you know needle drop off clinics like and people are really divided about that so like like you said this movie is about many things i feel like the first movie had very specific like things it was looking to talk about or or satire and this one seems to be like all over the place it's like you know you have the corporate uh you have the political corruption you have the corporate sort of just like a morality or a moral corporate sort of law and then you know you have this kind of drug culture that's like we're not the problem you know we don't shove our stuff down anybody's face people are going to use it anyways i mean in the same breath though like i mean this kid did he has shown us now on several occasions he uses the drugs to control people like he did it angie and he did it to the corrupt cop like you know so like you know so i think it's a way to sell this idea that you know we're not going to hurt anybody if you just like you know look the other way it reminds me of the wire where um you know the the police officer basically said between so many blocks in baltimore you can do whatever you want on those blocks we won't prosecute it we won't pull any one over for drugs or anything like that and that's going to make that's going to make the rest of our neighborhoods better um and it's also interesting because i i'm sure that they you can't one of the things you can't have a kid do is use drugs in a movie like they would never have this kid used to do but that is a point that he never uses his own stuff no you know he's always handing it out he's telling people why it's great or he's using it to control them but you never see him using it he's always clean and in control he's not disconnected like cane nor is he a zealot like angie and everybody else is basically just working for them so again it does there's almost this inverse relationship where he is the brains and cane is the dreamer of the two again the jobs wasniac thing and this is another example is hey i don't need cane cane does not is not necessary for this to continue we will keep doing what we're doing because i know how this system actually works and i know how to work within it which again coming from a kid is great because it just never seems right but if this was an adult saying it you would have no problem with yep this is a criminal mastermind this is somebody who actually knows how to run a criminal empire that's what we get in this game it's great and as adults we're able to decide what's moral and what's not and who's corrupt and who's not and i think the reason why this character Hobbes is a child is because he's like everybody's nightmare like uh you were talking about the Polish anime movie that you had watched recently on one of your daily fives and i think it was a Polish anime movie and you were talking about how there was this like sentient being uh but it and it thought it was in love but it didn't really know what it was because it's not like a developed human and here you have this like 13 year old kid who like is half corporate half criminal and like no morality because he he has no like he's not mature enough to make a distinction between these things so he's really like the most horrible product that society could produce is somebody without the experience or any morality and also influenced by both a religious cult sort of drug zealot and still understands the political and corporate world that's a nightmare and also you know we never again this is never this is one of those cases where you kind of fill in the blanks yourself but there's certainly no reason to think he has parents i have i mean from the media as soon as you see where he is you're like oh this kid has no parents either they're dead or they don't care right and either way if they don't care that does that it lays its own thing as far as well this is what you produce if you have a child and you don't care or if they're missing and nobody steps in to take care of them which in a city like this i would have to imagine that their social services is probably not functioning very well because you know it's just not a whole a little big team that just rained an electronic store and you know the coach is what the coach does count the bills yeah yeah exactly so yeah there's all these interesting things that again where sometimes the movie is way too over the top and overt there's then all this stuff that you can read into this is how far this this city has fallen and it is so bad that this kid potentially the only good future he's got is in this role and what makes it worse is if you actually think about it the kid is smart like he's and by the way this this actor is great like kid roles can be hit or miss he's great he did he nailed this particular thing as far as the performance he's fantastic but this kid comes across as wow if this kid had gone in a positive direction what could he have done he's clearly highly intelligent highly organized knows how to make i mean he's running a business as a 13 year old or a 12 year old so if not if he was in a different city or had more support behind him what could he have done instead this is where he ends up and shortly after this as kind of the final light don't do drugs kids which i guess is maybe the the final message yeah so then we get our first good luck or at least somewhat of a look at robocop 2 or cane cane cop robocane and he's this big misshapen thing where i saw something where they said he was supposed to be a mix of a medieval knight and yeah i can't remember what the other thing was that they were putting together but he looks he both looks monstrous and ridiculous at once and i think it's because he's got the big huge top and tiny little legs which doesn't seem like it should physically work at all and yet there is something to go with the body horror angle it's like okay king got put in and you can understand if somebody was put into this thing and looked in the mirror like robocop looking in the mirror looks like a super strong metal man like you can sort him yeah yeah figure out okay well i still sort of look human cane does not look human this thing does not look human at all outside of the fact that it has two legs but he's got i think four arms right he's got some kind of weird face and you know the the gun on one side but he looks like he's about to tip over he almost looks like ed two oh nine in some ways yeah but we get a very brief look at him and then he basically massacres the entire building except for the mayor who narrowly escapes into the sewers which you know maybe some messaging there and then the the kid we don't know at first he gets into this van full of money and you see came firing at it but you don't necessarily know for sure if he hit the kid or not but then robocop for some reason shows up i don't think we ever get an indication of why he knows something's happening but he's the only cop that shows up yeah so he comes out by himself and he's wandering through and he sees that everything's massacre and all the stuff's going on and then we get this and by the way this is an hour and 25 minutes into a two-hour film and we just saw cane as robocop too yeah so we're three quarters into the movie before our big villain has shown up so again you're right there's this movie is off-kilter it does not handle its act structure correctly but whatever it doesn't really matter to me because we get a really wonderful scene between Peter Weller and this kid because robocop opens the doors and you see this kid is shot all up and is sitting there and he's dying and then we get what is really a beautiful scene just to be honest about it it's a beautiful scene where robocop basically stays with this kid as he dies and this is it I'm cold you are going into shock I will call for a medical emergency unit don't leave me i will leave you who did this it was big bigger than you it was cane i'm gonna die you know what that's like don't you really sucks so two things one wonderfully acted scene again the Peter Weller very low voice like the back and forth with them is great you know you see this thing where the kids hand kind of slips out of his and again it's the one time where you see the kid as a kid where he realizes okay I'm dying now like he understands what's happening to him and he didn't start reciting he didn't start reciting Shakespeare or say Rosebud when he was dying he said like yeah like dying it sucks I don't wish I made more money you know something stupid like that also that part the music is terrible I don't like that like to the point about the music that's one of those points where I don't think the music is well tuned to it it's over the top it's too syrupy it's sort of saps it's it's overpowering when he says yes that should have been played dead silent or way in the background and it almost makes it where you can't hear him it's not good that's that's an example of I think bad music placement yeah yeah yeah yeah and I think the thing is it should reinforce the scene the music should always you know reinforce the scene sometimes you can do you know something where it's the opposite of the emotion and it sort of plays off the scene but yeah and this it was just kind of over the top and sometimes you're like the scene would have probably been more powerful without any music just having because this is the first time now we actually see a 13 year old kid acting like a 13 year old kid you know what I mean and it sees that as most vulnerable but he's also kind of like doing some introspection where he's just kind of like you know maybe this was such a good idea like dying really sucks and he appears to not have all the answers and not be somebody who can manipulate a mayor mayor or you know a woman in her 20s like you know or a go toe-to-toe with a cult leader so yeah and even just the way he describes Cain's robot or robocop to the way describes him he's like you but he's bigger you know it's the same way a child would describe you know a robot so yeah I think it was an impactful scene I think the music didn't really support it I just once again I go back to the focus group scene that happened in this movie that we kind of brushed over but I feel like that focus group scene like happened in a bunch of like I don't know PTA meetings across the United States after the first robocop came out and they were saying you know a lot of kids are watching that robocop movie and you know he you know he's not a he's a role model now you know and so I feel like almost that scene was like stolen from a PTA meeting somewhere in like Pennsylvania or somewhere in the Midwest where basically people were talking about how influential robocop was to kids because there were action figures there was a Game Boy game of robocop um yeah growing up as a kid I was like robocops really cool um so I wonder if like having this kid in the movie was supposed to be sort of like this like we got to connect with our core audience even though they're not allowed to see the movie because it's an hour they're gonna be there so we have to somehow have them in there I don't know it just it feels really bizarre um and like you said they stayed away from all the taboos about the kid having taking drugs or involved in any type of you know romantic relationship with adults but um and then even the gore in that scene was kind of downplayed where he was shot he was kind of more just like lying there and he was a little bit bloody but it wasn't missing half his body right yeah yeah because they could have because they could have with some of the other violence that had happened in this movie and it is definitely in the first it could have been pretty rough so yeah I just I love the scene with the kids the kid but also at the same time I'm just like what what who is this what were they trying to do was it satire or were they like trying to like capture their key demographic I don't know it's so bizarre it's also possible it's both uh one other thing I think works about having the young kid is when you don't when that when the van gets shot I'm sure many people were like well they won't kill the kid the kid will be injured he'll he'll take one in the arm or he'll hidden behind the gold bars and they'll have deflected the bullets right and then Robocop's gonna like lecture him right he's dead and he dies within 60 seconds of Robocop seeing him so and Robocop can do nothing about it like he did not save him he didn't get him he says I'm gonna call it and even that what I like about that is I'm pretty sure that Robocop knew this kid was not going to live so when he says you're going into shock he knows that what's actually happening is no you're going to be bleeding out in about a minute and a half yeah he says oh you're going to shock he's saying reassuring things but the kid again because I think we're supposed to the kid's smarter Robocop doesn't know this kid so Robocop's just maybe assuming well this is a child who thinks like a child and so if I say reassuring things I can give him some false comfort before this happens and the kid's like no no don't you're not calling I'm not going away I've been shot like 80 times I am dying just stay here because I don't want to die alone which is a very very sympathetic position even somebody who's a monster it is terrible to think of the idea of a child because again this is why I feel like maybe it wasn't just because they wanted a kid to connect with it feels like you can you can bypass a lot of the morality of it by saying well as you said it's a kid who isn't fully morally and intelligently formed and so if he was misled because for all we know he's been with Kane since he was much younger you may know nothing but Kane's world in which case I'm not saying he should know better but at the same time it's like children of abuse tend to become abusers not because they inherently are evil necessarily but because they see abuse as normal if all you see is Kane in that world as normal you will behave as if that is normal and you won't think any other way so it's that part of it feels either accidentally intelligent which you could say about probably half the stuff in this movie that's interesting is this an accident fell into genius fell into it yeah yeah no I tripped yeah tripped yeah tripped on the stairs to become Einstein you hit your head four times that made you into a super genius yeah you don't know yeah I agree with you I think you've I think you've changed my mind I think I agree with you I think it's purposeful in the movie because I think the idea is the kid is about as amoral as the the old man is the CEO of OCP and I think that's supposed to indicate to us like how messed up this reality in this movie is is that you have youth that are just as bankrupt as the adults and and we never get to see the old man you know you know in a compromising position right where he's like oh I should have I should have changed or whatever but we're actually so we basically saw a kid go through the entire life cycle of sort of you know I'll get I'll take whatever I can and be like this wasn't such a good idea like I regret some things but hey I don't want to die alone so I think you're absolutely right I think it's it's just another contrast of like you even got kids that are just morally bankrupt or just have no sense of moral compass there is also one third possibility which means we're both right which is that some doofus thought it would just be a way to make kids connect and then somebody with more of a kind of brain about storytelling that yeah you know what yeah that's how we'll get kids to watch you put in the background is going wow this can actually be for the right for somebody paying attention this is actually a commentary we can kill two birds with one stone that shit has happened in films I read about stories where somebody suggested something and they thought they were a genius or else was like he's a moron but what he doesn't know is we can use that and it or it could have been like oh kids are watching these movies like parents you're letting your kids go and see rubble cop great we'll put a kid in this one and we'll shoot up like like you your kid should not be watching this like but but like we said we were teenagers at that time right and we were inevitably watching these movies right we were somehow seeing them I don't know at what age I finally saw rubble cop but maybe I hadn't even seen the movie and I was already aware of robocop and like you said they made it into an animated series so clearly there was a strong youth draw to to this not just like teenagers and older kids who you know you know you know older young men but but yeah they were like straight up like kids who were 13 who were like robocop's pretty cool well I definitely saw robocop two before one because I had always been told that robocop one was very serious and robocop two just seemed fun and goofy because it was a giant monster robot in it so I know I didn't see robocop one until I'd seen robocop two any number of times and that was honestly because I didn't see it in theaters I remember watching it at my grandmother's house because she was cooking and I was sitting in front of a TV and it came out and I watched it and you know she didn't know any different that's a lot of kids experiences that's how a lot of people our age saw things sometimes was you know we rented a movie and they didn't know what was in it like chopping them all I rented my parents didn't know what it was and I watched it what you know so it was one of those kind of things so there's whatever the reasoning I think it is one of the strong points and it reinforces I think what we've both been saying about this movie where there's parts of it that feel not that they're equal to the first one but feel far above other parts where you sit there and go what what is this why is this in here because like you said it kind of ping pongs all over the place and it almost feels like the middle act was supposed to be Murphy and the ex-wife or the widow trying to work something out and then came becomes the final act because otherwise the middle is very strange this is a very strange movie in the middle well it's well instead they did what you're about to describe here where they're basically now taking the Murphy you know they they gave him too much programming it's like the is it the second or the third Superman where Superman becomes bad you know like in the world yeah it's one of the only good things in that movie that's where he fights himself in the junkyard and he's doing the little thing with the peanuts I love Superman 3 because when that woman turns into a robot I still almost piss my pants yeah it's scary that's scary yeah that's right and it's a it's a Richard Pryor you know vehicle but but yeah in that too that what that's what it felt like to me it's like oh what if Robocop was good like what if Robocop wasn't gritty what if Robocop was polite and wasn't just like blowing people away with a hand cannon you know they were even talking about the special effects guy had to do special blood packets that had multiple explosions because he had such a high caliber you know a gun in the movies but yeah I think that was the thing so that's kind of where that was supposed that became the middle act I think was yeah the kind of it felt really really old hat at that point maybe we've just seen so many superhero movies at this point that it that it feels like it maybe was a little bit fresher than but I just felt like this is the this is the plot it's Superman's bad now and how is he gonna be not bad like it's a matter of time that you know that he'll return to his form well and they give you that nice can be a thing well uh the only way we could uh unprogram him is we can either dissect him and we'll have to reset him or maybe if he sticks his hands into a transformer and shocks himself for a couple minutes that'll do it and sure enough he's like "fuck it" and then what is probably the most unrealistic thing in this entire film and that's saying something yeah uh Lewis takes a board to get the stick and the thing that yes this board that probably I could I could run and jump in half yeah I managed to knock a probably two ton mechanical man right off of a transformer yeah with one swipe I mean don't get wrong I'm sure she's in great shape but that board's not surviving and they should knock him off which is just see I couldn't believe what I couldn't believe I couldn't believe I couldn't think in that scene I was like wait a second here first of all I was like first of all I was like so the solution of this is to turn them off and turn them back on again I was like what is this the eight IT crowd I was like have you tried hard rebooting so basically yeah in that scene though I was like wait what shouldn't I believe more that that a piece of wood would provide enough insulation or that yes like you said that this woman who's maybe about I don't know 90 pounds maybe 110 could knock a what what is he like a ton how much is a hook up way over with a board yeah it took what 12 guys to pick him up so it's not like he's he's not made of styrofoam I could tell you that right right uh so she knocks him off yeah and and that does that solves it I do like the fact that after that extraordinarily unrealistic sequence of events that preceded it then she touches him and he is hot so at least they can keep that physical reality that electricity heats things up sure and so that but that's that scene I like because it does it's the idea of always a falling cop and the other cops kind of give up the strike to help but like it's it's not the most subtle thing in the world but that part is organic enough where it's like okay whatever our difference is here pick him up bring him in and then he's like put me down and he gets up and he's like Bob you know he's like all right I'm pissed you know Cain's pissed me off and and so that that scene is ridiculous but that's how we fixes himself and that is I think it's after that that he goes and finds the kid so we did a little bit of out of order but I think it's right before that yeah yeah and that's the best robocop the best robocop is the one who is tough has just the three prime directives right and is also partly murphy right so that he can be compassionate when a kid's dying he can be all those things he can be tough and he could be compassionate he doesn't have to be you know give lectures on littering you know while criminals are shooting at him. Well it's true basically his regular directives are essentially Superman you know truth justice the American way okay it's you know protecting innocent serve the public trust and uphold the law like it's simple it's easy to understand and it's it makes him into a very direct you know actor where he knows what his goal he knows what he's about and so you put him back into the command role as opposed to 3 000 directives where he doesn't really know how to react to things that he gets he literally gets stuck in a in like a beach ball moment where he's like rebooting you could almost see the spinning ball on his head and so now we're back to okay it's back to basics like you know what you know what's right you know what's wrong just go and do that. Which is the commentary on the whole focus group kind of in a movie even if there's too many cooks and there's too many people giving too much feedback and too much input that you end up getting a robocop that doesn't function you get a movie that doesn't function and I so I feel like there was like some like backlash by the writers being like you're like trying to monetize this you're trying to like mass produce this thing like the first movie you're trying to you know change robocop has become a role model now in society so you have to like change him and the end result is it just makes something that's not effective. And it very well could be what you were talking about that this may even based on a real group of concerned parents who wrote editorial saying why does robocop just have to kill anybody can't he go save kids I have no doubt somebody wrote that. Because Superman saved a cat didn't he in one of the movies I'm talking about the Christopher Reeves movie didn't he get a cat out of a tree or something at one point. I'm pretty sure in the second one he got a cat out of a tree. I don't know one of them he definitely did. Well at least you know because Christopher Reeve is the the ideal of what you want the superhero the pure boys know. So yes so I'm sure there were people who said why can't he be more like Superman. Why can't he do nice things for people. And of course anybody who like bear hold him probably wanted to drown himself reading that stuff because he's like you missed the whole point of my film. But then in this one they were like you know what we can use that for humor let's just go ahead let's show them what happens when you do a death by a thousand cuts and you just make it where this character can't possibly work. And it is effective it does demonstrate you know the problem with committees is you know you make a camel camel is a horse designed by a committee. Same idea. So it does work and it wouldn't shock me if a lot of things in here were based on real response to the first film which is extremely violent. Extremely cynical dark depressing anti-capitalist I mean it's you can just list a million things that that would make you go. That's right yeah. Especially because kids were latching onto it. Kids were interested in Robocop so and here's this subversive thing that is a commentary on society and corporate culture. Well because and also that the thing is that it's it's tough because he is a cyber cop. So kids are taught or at least when we were young you were taught trust the police right. You're in trouble go ask a policeman I remember being told that time and again. So sure you have this thing comes out when you have an invincible police officer and of course children are going to say oh that's the best cop there could be is if I'm I'm a super cop with you know a gun built into the leg that I can spin and put back and it's like it's the for a 14-15 year old this is the coolest thing you've ever seen it's like Knight Rider for kids who are a little bit younger it's like a talking car that could jump yes I want one give me two it's perfectly designed so yes there is an irony in that where I really hope that that was actually something Verhoeven was counting on where he's like oh kids are going to love this shit let me have that two and I shoot a guy for 15 minutes and I've won everywhere these kids are going to be like yay let me show what the world's really like so so rebel cop resets himself and he now is by the kid telling him he knows Kane is is in the machine sort of and so he shows up and this is where the movie really kind of just jumps it really doesn't has no transitional anything at this point probably because they realized oh we're 90 minutes in we have to get things moving now because the movie's almost over the original movie would have been over in two minutes because I think rebel cop the original was 102 minutes so I yeah about 12 more minutes yeah so the other one and this was this was more how long was this one this one was a little bit hour 56 by the counter I see on there yeah yeah so closer to just short two hours yeah yeah so definitely the first film was a lot you know a lot more compact so oh it was leaner and meaner that was that it's basically yeah that that movie was not fucking around with what it was doing and that's that's what makes it so good is that it's like okay as you said the first movie you're pretty clear on what's going on really quick like there is no muddling in the middle of it it's like okay good guy's bad guys he's gonna go and he's going to stick his cyber middle finger blade into this guy's neck and then have blood spur on his face as the guy you knew you knew that data port in the rebel cop one you knew that data port somebody was gonna get stabbed with that I was like why did they make the data port so sharp I'm like that's about it well the beauty of that scene is the fact that he puts the fish right up into the camera so it's like yes this is telegraphing yeah this is going to be used on someone so you knew at some point and of course at a certain once you get a certain bit into the film you're like oh that's gonna be on botica it has to be he's the one who's gonna get that because he doesn't use it on anybody else so you're like somebody very special i think we've shown to us check offs middle finger we're gonna see it again right so now we jump to OCP holding a press conference and we have large flags in the background that are very like fascist and look like Nazi stuff and the OCP it did yeah I noticed that yeah it felt very like corporate corporate Nazi yeah there's a lot of imaging yeah it's a frank Miller thing from that time period if you read the dark night returns there's a point where Batman or there's a woman who is robbing convenience store and she is an Aryan woman who is wearing nothing from the waist up and her boobs have swastika tape on them it's a rather famous frank Miller image so clearly he's got something for fascism i'm not saying he's a favorite but he sure looks throwing the blatant imagery around so right that to me is a total frank Miller thing like that's not somebody else that's frank but it was the new convention center they built right wasn't it the OCP yes convention so it was supposed to be like this model building to start the whole delta city thing like they were they were bringing it back it was like the death star was coming back now or you know what i mean interestingly they don't ever say i was listening they don't ever call it delta city this time they call it new Detroit right so it's almost again this is a corporate thing rebrand we can't use a failed name right we're not black water anymore now we're exe assassins or whatever they change their mental right so it's like we can't call that that name is tainted because we fucked it up so now it's new Detroit oh you know it's like good get off world baby go to the new colonies the same thing is labeled like hey let's forget about this old stuff we screwed up so you know it's new Detroit and so the the head of OCP the old man is giving this big presentation and the press is there and there's a weird detail in this scene which i never noticed until this last time i watched it but if you watch the movie pay attention when the camera first comes into that room and this is clearly a message and i i don't know exactly what it is it might just be as simple as it is but way in the back of the auditorium because most of the press are in the front so you see this front thing and there's most of them in there way in the back corner near the door is a woman in a wheelchair holding a microphone out and i noticed it and i went what is that i will when i do the video version i will point it out because it's so specific yeah i didn't notice that it's at about just in case anybody's not watching the video if you want to see it it's give me a second i'm scrubbing through it's right when they first come in it is at one hour and 30 about 31 30 or so when they when they do the pan in in the back you have to look to the right of the frame and i'm watching it so i apologize this is miserable if you're seeing this but i'll just play the clip so you'll see it yeah yeah so you're saying so they built the convention center and it's not wheelchair accessible that it's either that or it's the idea that this person matters so little that they threw in the back because she has a physical or she's in the back because i feel like that's at auditorium room where it's all stairs going down yeah but right i mean that's not so they didn't make a wheelchair accessible so they like spent all this money built this huge convention center and it's not accessible to people with yes so it's a member of the press and she's way off to the side and you only see it for a second i never noticed it before now i didn't i didn't see it and i'm like that's because there's no accidental stuff in filmmaking everybody there these are decisions so i'm just like yeah that's specific and that's telling you something which i think you're exactly right the only place you can have somebody you have a wheelchair is way off there way off to the side so anyway just and but once again just once again that's this whole thing about like there's this really like subtle great stuff in this movie and then there's stuff that's just bananas and and there's this weird mix between the two where you're it's almost like two people were writing or you know there's just this like odd back and forth i am pretty sure the screenplay is two people so frankly it is a story and then i believe the screenplay is two people so it very well may have been i don't know what the situation was yeah in terms of the making it so maybe somebody was the director was saying can you rewrite this scene just don't tell frank or the other way around that happens a lot so who knows right so yeah the old man's giving a presentation says here's new to trite brings another four and he says and new city needs a new form of protection and here it is and he brings this thing up and now there is no way a corporation rolls this thing out as they're you know as their beat cop on the street like this is your prototype you don't show this to the public robo cop is what you show the public oh he just looks like you except he's a metal man like it's very it feels like an apple product that this is the this is a microsoft one what he shows and robo cop is the apple one like that's the refined one that lets you feel comfortable because he looks kind of like you and he's got at least partially a face this thing looks like what robo cop should be protecting you from and sure enough this idiot because they're again you just sit here and go takes out a giant tube of nuke now it's important to note if you haven't seen the movie nuke as we normally see it is a tube about the size of maybe my finger like this yeah like one of those like a single-use eye drops that you would yeah yeah very very small things about smaller than a flash driver about a little flash drive even small just tiny yeah tiny and you take and it's a small amount and you just put it in your neck and it's like a slip and it just goes in yeah he takes out what looks like i mean it's a big it's like the tube of goo that transformed the ninja turtles worth a right right yeah it's the secret to the loose stephaly yeah it takes this giant thing out and what i do like is in the background you see uh kane go and looks like right right right right immediately or his eyeballs do yeah or they have that weird 90s like uh yeah virtuosity face yeah virtuosity fish i almost wish that their that his actual eyeballs popped through the lens and looked at that would be so cartoonish but it would be hilarious but yeah immediately kane starts getting interested you start to see him fidget like he's starting to move in the background and the doctor immediately the psychologist sees it and is going and he's not aware and then there's a point where the thing just starts moving and then robo cop walks in with one of those giant guns from the first movie and you're like oh come on he's not going to ruin another fight scene like he did with it well and he does it so so robo kane starts going after me this stuff and somehow doesn't kill the old man he amazingly survives because i feel like that thing would have just knocked his head right off because he kills angie in two seconds by just grabbing her head and like snapping her around and throwing her and so robo cop starts firing the big gun which does piss robo kane off but doesn't really appear to hurt him all that much as opposed to when he starts firing his missiles back and starts denting robo cop so he is clearly able to harm robo cop robo cop wisely blows that thing up so he can't hit him with that anymore at which point and there's great stop motion that is one thing is uh whatever effects problems there are and other things the the cane because it's still tippet who did like the mad god movie and his is well known for his stop motion work he's fantastic so robo kane's great he comes up and he does this extendo punch thing which suddenly we never see anywhere else in the movie just doesn't want it puts robo cop through a wall and then they have this and their fight scene is actually really good they're fighting all over the building they're throwing each other around uh it's fairly evenly matched at one point he takes an arc welder or something and like scars robo cops helmet right which is great they go into the underground there's this great scene with the elevator where robo cop manages to sever the cable and he goes flying up and drops robo came down and then you get this legitimately terrifying scene where robo kane is like spider manning his way up the thing there's all the sound effect oh there's another thing i don't know if you notice this i meant to bring this up earlier the foley work in this film is odd at times it is some of the worst fully work i've ever heard and then simultaneously is excellent in the next scene i don't know if you noticed that because some of it is awful well i think what happens sometimes is so like with the robot and with the cane robot too they're doing a lot with the you know the whole tie fighter like uh you know uh elephants and reserve and reverse that type of thing there is some animal like growling that's happened to kind of differentiate that you know you said like night across kane robo cane is kind of across of like a night and maybe sort of like a bear or some type of animal right over something like that and so you get that and and that's really cool that kind of growling and aggressiveness um but yeah you know sometimes it's really good to be honest i didn't get to the sound effects in a lot of those stop motion scenes because a lot of what i was concerned about was the stop motion was very good and the action was very good but when they were mixing the stop motion over the establishing shots then it was really it felt really dated and so much so that when you would go back to a shot where they were using like a practical you know arm like a robo cane it was his arm or something and they were using it like it was actually a prop then that was so clear and had like such a great look to it and then once the stop motion was in there it was it was difficult to mix the two and you know there's a wonderful video where verhoeven is talking about starship troopers and he's talking about the use of animatics that they were able to use now this is like 10 years later in 1999 when starship troopers came out but they were actually able to storyboard a scene and then use computer graphics to create like a mock-up of what the shots were going to be so that that transition from like stop you know stop motion or whatever things they were going to use they could incorporate that into the live action shot a lot easier and that and that was 10 years of filmmaking and technology that he could utilize i think they were showing from star ship shuber star ship troopers they were showing the scene where johnny is like killing that big you know bug at the end or whatever and he jumps on the bug or whatever so there's everything one where he has to grenade inside yeah and so they have to they have to kind of have he has to interact with something that you know doesn't exist and they're not going to do a practical you know a hundred hundred foot 200 foot bug or whatever sadly not anymore the state of movies the same ways but um but for 1999 it looks really good the scene looks really good um so i think that's just one of the limitations of this like i love the whole thing that we finally got to see the ed 209 battle like robo cop fighting another robot because like we get to see robo cop fighting criminals and you know corporate lawyers but it's like yeah man if there's going to be a robo cop too i want to see a big robot battle at the end and i loved all the action and everything that was happened i just like i couldn't get over at times how dated and out of place some of the stop motion looked yeah it definitely it definitely shows its age at points like you said i think this was at a point where they really didn't have the background blending where it needed to be so there are just like you said there and the fully work just to be specific is not missing i'm talking about the regular stuff like footsteps and sometimes are so loud and clear and close to the mic that i was distracted by it no this the robot stuff sound wise excellent i mean all robo cop's little sounds are great i i have no complaints about that but yes in that scene some of that stop motion the lighting is really good it matches the background but then the background looks like a video it doesn't look right because obviously they didn't have it where they could really blend it correctly i mean now they would do it with cg which is unfortunate this this arc is more and more lost but there are other scenes where it is incredible when he's coming up that elevator you can't tell it's not real that's because i'm sure they built a scale elevator and then did the animation of it so yeah it struggles when they're trying to put it in front of something real or something at actual scale it doesn't it sticks out yeah you right because the problem is not the stop motion the stop motion was fantastic and the cinematography was fantastic it's when yeah trying to put them together and that that shows its age and um but i think it was great though because i think that whole final like action sequence where we get to see the two go to toe to toe that's something that was missing i think from the from the first movie but that's not what the first movie is about right the first movie was like a classic at 209 just gets blown up by a big gun because it's just a useless corporate product and it can't go downstairs and uh you know the real threat are the you know the corporate execs inside yeah where this one is like no we legitimately put uh psychopathic uh drug addict in a in a indestructible robot suit and thought that would be a good idea yeah it's it's just a different incompetent corporate decision but it still doesn't work out now i do like the fact that the fight scene is almost a consistent ten minutes where they don't interrupt that i mean that fights once it starts yeah keeps going which i do think that's the way to end this movie because it erases a lot of the problems you sort of forget that they dropped the whole you know murphy's wife like a lot of that goes away right because with these two things thrashing on each other it's so great because you're right you never got anything as you said anytime robo cops up against the human it's never even there's no concern right there is nothing at one point somebody isn't it that the coach says somebody shoots rubble cop in the bullet ricochets back and kills him that's how that's how inept some of these criminals are is the ricochet from his own gun kills him off robo cop and it's somehow none of these criminals it's not like robo cops brand new in detroit he's been around they've already upgraded him technically once with the new you know day glow armor and purple yet they keep firing regular guns in him at least bonkers gang got those big guns they were smart enough to say we need bigger weapons uh nobody else has thought of that nobody's developed a laser gun nobody has shot him in the mouth nothing knows that was the whole thing like the face like yeah like yeah yeah because you would imagine if a bullet went in there it would bounce all over the armor and it would just incinerate his brain it would have to unless they put his brain in his ass or something but there's no indication they've done that so yeah oh sorry criminals if you're going up against a killing machine or anybody and it's gonna kill yourself let's say you're let's say you're a nice person and a killer terminator is coming after you if it has a fleshy mouth shoot at it without surround that's how bullets work i feel like somebody you know how they always do like the 32nd version of a movie where somebody just like shoots you know like you're just like like the 32nd robo cop would be just shoot him in the face yeah just throw a bunch of grenades at his head and let them blow up and he'll basically have a big empty shell with a bloody stump in the bit i mean it it is somewhat ridiculous that he doesn't have a mouth guard or anything that they just leave that right even hockey players wear something you know yeah jason voorhees is smarter but again right nobody in detroit has figured it out so i guess everybody after bonnet was just a dumbass because nobody has thought of this they keep shooting at his chest which is easily the most armored part on him so he eventually manages to extricate canes brain right smash it and bring his and canes still somehow has a couple of moments where i guess maybe he's got remote connection to brain so he's screaming and going lawn mower man yeah and then basically robo cop has to double smash his brain and that kills him so now canes done he falls over and then we get the scene you were talking about where once things are bad enough uh now the corporate mentality kicks in and the old man immediately says okay it's time for some damage control yeah serious trouble sir so many of course there won't be any trouble from the deadlands and have relatives they always do be a feeding frenzy it's only money all about criminal proceedings well uh we're looking at major indictments sir prison terms what about me you know we'll do whatever we can't that's not good enough folks going oh sir what if this was all a work of one individually person who had our own agenda that wasn't in sync with the goals of our company well that usually works a woman who was 19 player violated all her trust well we need some evidence to support that sir whether it exists or not i know i can find it she did choose the brain sir good thinking but you're all right i was so worried i thought it was going to hurt you no it's over it's all over i failed you don't be hard on yourself everything's going to be all right Johnson about business we were talking about get right on it that seemed okay i'm not worried about the money we'll just pay it off but am i going to go to jail which is absolutely how corporations work they don't care about fines what they care about is wait a minute am i going to go to jail uh oh well who cares about the dead people they can't see us yes but they have relatives they always do you know can we pin this on i mean it's all feels like stuff you would absolutely hear in a crisis management corporate meeting right over it wouldn't be dead people from a robot obviously but let's say somebody put out a product with a defect and a killed a couple of children and so now the discussion is okay uh how do we fix this and let's make sure nobody goes to jail and you know can we pin this on somebody happens all the time the corporate escape code is built in or even like an even like an enran thing where it's not a victimless crime but they're embezzling money so they you know the the oversight has now caught them doing something illegal maybe not something you know where people are dying but something criminal and yeah the spin machine fires up um i also like it too because it's kind of like you're like why is johnson still in this movie like what like he made it through the first movies in the next one and you totally figure it out it's because like this is what he does he like waits in the back doesn't make too much of a noise doesn't isn't too isn't doesn't burn too bright doesn't uh doesn't sink too low but when it comes time he knows exactly he's like oh here's my opportunity we need to get rid of dr facts and he's like i'll be right back as the old man's right hand man yeah no this this is exactly yet the the just enough ambition or just enough brains to be useful without being too ambitious i mean it is the the perfect function of a second in command especially post dick jones so he makes complete sense so then we get a very brief scene where uh we get some you know we see the mayor complaining and then you know they're trying to get the the old man to say something he won't and then we cut over to robocop and louis are there and she's like well they're going to get away with its scumbags and then robocop says oh you just have to be patient after all we're only human and he starts to take his helmet off and then we cut the credits which is a weird ending i'm not sure what that was supposed to really be conveying i think it was like let's do the same i'm human yeah what's your name kid you know what should i call you because i call me murphy i think they were trying to yeah do the same thing but one thing i do just want to step back for a second i think the whole cane robot addicted to nuke thing i thought that idea was amazing and i feel like they didn't explore it enough because talking about the body horror stuff like the idea that you would be an addict and you would be addicted to something and basically you're a robot like that did that whole idea i was like wow that is just a fantastic horrifying idea that they would use your addiction to kind of like control you and like uh there's other there's azimuth things that kind of hit it this too that like the robots are like addicted to something that keeps them docile keeps them in control right you see this a lot in science fiction writing where these sort of centuries or these you know these robots or or you know it's like in the Michael Crichton book where the the apes are protecting the diamonds or whatever or the you know so it's like yeah so it's just like it's this idea that you would have a squad of things that were sort of addicted to drugs so the corporation has figured out a way to use the addiction to basically you know fund the new the new city or to protect the new city or to you know to be its be cops and so i thought that was fantastic and i feel like that just got like quickly because it was so long to get cane in the movie like you said like you know almost more than halfway through before we even saw the robot you know it would have been cool to see him on a rooftop like screaming like going through withdrawal that type of thing like just like it would have been cool to see him suffer a little bit because i think that would have played into this whole like the cyborg suffers the people that love the cyborg suffer the the bad cyborg suffers like it's it's like because they're lost their humanity and their control yeah the the clever way to do it would have been to to show that he was either to show that like the withdrawals would have been good to see him like malfunctioning because they right you know they they they don't want to give it to him and they're doing it they're talking like saying just so you know who's in charge yeah and then that gets him in the background to start to figure out how to rewire his pleasure center so he doesn't need it so he's faking going along with it and then at the end they give him the nuke and he takes it and he throws it away and then he just goes insane because he's like well now i hate all of you so they could have done more you're right they didn't do it up with the concept they played it very surface level as in we just want to have we want to have the classic kind of simple idea of an addict he's so handled by his addiction he can't do anything but want this so he'll do whatever we say as opposed to emphasizing that well the way that dealers do things is they want to make sure that you never quite have enough they want to make sure you keep coming back so the corporate angle would be just give him enough to get him through the one job and then let him suffer for a little bit so he knows who actually controls things and then he would be like okay i'm in a super body there has to be away from me not to need this stuff because i'm not a person anymore and so he starts to kind of work around it and then kind of at the end you figure out oh he hasn't needed this for like two weeks he's been fine he's been taking it and draining it out into the floor and pretending to you know take it in but he's not actually using it like he would eject a full canister that you thought he used and he'd be like yeah now it's over with it it just starts rampaging all over the place but yeah well it's like Congo where i guess the eventually the the the apes like rebelled against their masters and just killed all their masters and like you're left with now sort of the aftermath of that like i thought all of those i was like waiting for any of those science fiction tropes to kind of reveal themselves with it and instead we got the really cool battle royale um but really no other backstory and that and then that felt like too he didn't really cane didn't really have an arc he was kind of like flat in the start and then he just became the robot and um like i said he was great on the screen every time he was on the screen so having more of his character in the arc would have been would have been nice well it's also a failure where his his anger and vengeance don't make his rage doesn't make sense because if we had seen a scene of him as a human and he went to get nuke him was out and he suddenly had a temper tantrum like the one time he broke his cool he'd be like ah the minute he thinks he can't have it like he went to frank for some more and Frank's like oh i'm sorry we shipped out we just shipped out to the supplier i don't have any for you and he starts beating him up and saying you know i need to have it in its vows and you see that okay the one way that you can snap his kind of demeanor is he doesn't have nuke on demand well then the robot makes sense yeah but since all we ever saw of cane in human form was hey man let's go with the flow baby new universe oh wow yeah and that was all we ever saw of him suddenly now just because he's in a robot he's homicidal i mean i guess it feeds into the idea that yes murphy is unique you can't just stick a person in here but then again that's somewhat makes then it makes the doctor in idiot too whereas it's sort of made sense that a a drug kingpin might want to be a super like robot so again it's it's exactly what we've said all along there's these parts of the movie that seem clever and there's lots of parts where it's like you didn't do anything with this you set up something and either didn't really do anything with it or you dropped it immediately and it was more interesting than what you gave us and so you end up with a good start and a good ending and a middle that just goes all over the place in terms of one scene is great and the next one is what happened ten minutes ago i don't really remember i guess robocomp did something and that's it and i think you really hit it on the head it's the potential i think and and definitely you know uh next time when we talk about uh predator uh predator too it's the same concept of there was there's so much potential and there's so many great ideas and some were capitalized on and executed really well and others were just kind of like abandoned um i will say one last thing about robocop 2 um i did enjoy it i'll watch it again many more times i'll enjoy it as well too um but the one thing you know people talk about which is better is robocop 1 or or robocop 2 better and i think it's pretty clear robocop 1 is is its own separate film this thing that is really great and i think one of the things that we just alluded to with cane and then even with the old man the o c p president um is that in the first movie Clarence botaker and bob morton they were like these dynamic characters that had like a bunch of different angles and sides to them like even botaker Clarence botaker you're like this guy's a horrible criminal and he mutilated murphy's body and shot him in the head he's just this horrible scumbag and then halfway through the movie you see him in a shirt a shirt and a tie and he's he's meeting with dick jones as an executive and he sexually harasses it goes beyond that sexually harasses the secretary and then but then also can function in the executive world and so it just makes his character and then he looks like some like a like a midwest dad he's just like weird so like and by the way after seeing that 70s show and then going back and watching that you're just like what the what the hell is going on it's such a mindfuck so what i'm saying is i think if you were to say okay why is robocop one a better movie or why is it better executed i think it's those secondary characters in robocop one that are more dimensional or three-dimensional and are sort of fleshed out and they don't need to be to have the movie go from start to finish but that's what makes the ride more enjoyable because you do now have this stronger connection with them and i think in you know you know with kane and even with angie and even with hob like there could be a scene where hob like goes back and tucks his parents in who are alcoholics or something like that like i was waiting for that scene where he would like go to his parents home and like pay their rent form or something like that you know whatever or like rough up the landlord because they're laid on their rent but like none of that happened so we kind of were robbed a little bit because our secondary characters weren't as as fleshed out you know i agree it really is a movie where because you pointed us out earlier that robocop the first film is shorter and yet so this movie had more time but seemed to do less with the things it was playing with and that's the difference is yeah this and predator the thing i would say about them both is these movies absolutely never needed sequels they were going to get them because they were huge hits so we knew they were coming yeah but they function so well on their own because they know exactly what story they're telling that story has a beginning middle end and there is no room for anything else and there doesn't need to be so there is this hurdle in trying to follow up a great film which you know i'm sure these guys going into it knew uh we're never going to get close to that so i agree i think it's a lot of fun it's a fun movie but don't watch it right after the first one watch it way after the first one where you sort of go yeah that was a great movie you know what i want something different with the same characters roughly which is basically robocop and louis and the same kind you know and the old man still there so you get it's a nice kind of it's almost like the difference between oreo and hydrox where it's like ah yeah oreo yeah it's still a cookie i'm still gonna eat it because you know there's milk nearby and i don't have oreos absolutely you know i i i i ate a whole pack of oreos a month ago and i said don't do that again so i'm just gonna have four hydrox today still good yeah it's still gonna eat them but it's not the same thing so it is a lot of i think to me though here's the thing though so we say the thing about the sequel it's just hard to be better than the original it's just impossible and so we could start talking about these like lofty films but i always go back to Terminator and Terminator 2 because i always go back to it now this is james cameron territory so but the idea is Terminator was a fantastic film it's a great film it revolutionized things most of the stop motion still looks pretty good there's a little bit that but then Terminator 2 just was like wow this is great too and this just like built on all the other things that that the first movie did so i think it's possible to create a sequel that's similar enough to the first but expands on it and is still widely saying wow that's a great that's a great movie too i won't use the alien and aliens scenario because i think the first alien is a very good movie and i love aliens it's one of my favorite movies i think alien is like my favorite movie aliens is a great movie but those are two completely different movies and and right off the bat they said no we're doing something different we're going to take the idea but we're doing something different and it was great in its own way but they weren't trying to do the same thing where i think with robocop it was let's do something similar enough and i think there was that push and pull between like how similar do we want to be or do we want to turn it into more of a action movie you know an action superhero movie where the first one was science fiction satire just you know solid kind of dystopian sort of borderline cyberpunk you know body horror yeah it's interesting you bring up terminator because i'll say something that may be controversial for some people i almost never have watched the first terminator since i probably have watched the first terminator in 15 plus years because honestly you gotta watch it it's great but but it's not terminator two it feels like that's they did that's a rare case of the inverse where the first one is a great core idea and the movie is fine it's got good music i like scenes in it yeah but i don't want to watch it i want to watch terminator two front to back that's not saying terminator one is bad no it's just saying that turnier two feels like that was the movie camera was built to make that was the one where he laid the foundation one and then two went all the way and this is one of those things where predator and robocop one are so perfectly made yeah that could you have made a sequel equal to them in a perfectly the perfect world it's a fury road situation where it's a ten year development cycle and all the right pieces are in place maybe and now you have the budget and people will say oh yeah we'll give you we'll give you this ridiculous money and and mcteernan are so key to what make those movies work that if you didn't bring bear hovin back do i think bear hovin could have taken the same story and made a 90 minute masterpiece yes i do yeah it would have been great urban kurt or when cursed i'm not sure i was supposed to ask no he's very well known as somebody you bring in who can get a movie done but he's not really putting something personal in it so yeah but as we've all said it's a lot of fun if you've never watched it because you heard it's not as good as the first one well it isn't but it's still a riot if nothing else you got a swearing kid who's the message you just said the movie and that's enough to sell me on it i mean it by scene by scene is the kids robbing the uh the uh video store with the baseball team robbing the video store and that while the coach steals money out of the cash register that's my that's my reinforces why i think we're both saying you should watch it is there are really good scenes in it there is good acting there are weather scenes yeah there are also these other scenes we are going to go oh that's quite a shift from where i thought we were going and unfortunately the movie can't balance it that's its biggest problem is it doesn't have the balance right the mix is off it's just that simple but it's not like you can't watch it and have a great time just don't try to compare it i said the same thing when i did my fury ulcer review don't compare it to fury road similar thing you can't compare these is it function on its own is it entertaining even with its flaws yes it is shows predator too in fact predator too i like a lot i like it as much as predator for wildly different reasons we're not talking about that yet but no but as as a preview as a preview rewatching it within the last month um within the first 45 minutes i was like this is a good movie i at 45 minutes in i was like oh like this is all the things i would want it's like in an urban setting it's like predator in an urban setting you've got great actors you've got you've got this kind of cool futuristic world you've built like this is going to be good and obviously stay tuned for for the rest of that but as a short preview the build paths and rule holds if he's in a movie yes well that's what i'm saying he's in it he's great you've got you know lots of good people which yes we will talk about that at length so that's so what is the worst is the worst is the worst evening with robocop to watch all three in incense in secession so just start around four o'clock in the afternoon watch the first one have a good time watch the second one be a little bit skeptical of it and then watch the third one and i don't know what jump on bridge watch a bunch of frequent stories are really big so you can do it you can say okay watch a bit more smooth yeah one of these guys talk about the what's the third one to be like this is horrible like yeah and then the second one's like oh it's a little better and then wow this is a cinematic masterpiece it's a kind of situation where going backwards actually serves the whole thing better because by the time you do that prequel story like wow prequel stories can work yes they can but yes do not watch them one to three watch them three to one or if you're really smart just don't bother with the third one at all it is that table do we have to before we finish do we have to mention the new the new robocop the 2014 extravaganza that was put out okay i don't i don't hate the remake i just think it didn't add anything and so was ultimately pointless i think i saw five minutes of it i think i made five minutes no i watched the whole thing um but i did make a past test this is by the way that is worse the fact that it's just completely nothing robocop two say what you will but you have met the parts of it yeah and there's commentary and there's satire and it's all mixed in there however well is executed uh the other one was like a CGI extravaganza yeah i think you can show robocop two to somebody who liked the first movie and they will have a good time yeah they won't compare it but they will have a good time you show the remake to somebody who's only seen the first robocop and it's inferior because it it i think at times it has the same problem that robocop two does but it's worse because they remake it is they go way overboard on things they hammer these things with no subtlety and that's less forgivable when you are replicating a well-made movie robocop two try to incorporate bits of the first one and try to do something different it failed at sometimes but at least it was continuing not just redoing top to bottom it's not the force awakens or something like that where you just like you have no original ideas so actually that just makes robocop two better the remake actually i forgot about that tells you something i forgot all about it at least i remember the skin flying jetpack of three as stupid as that is well yeah yeah i think about that i that haunts my dreams the flying jetpack and it's so i don't think about it it hurts yeah it does uh i agree with you though a hundred percent the second movie that script was very good and if verhoeven had directed it it probably would have been it would have been a really great movie because i think this everything they needed in the script was there and i think verhoeven would have focused on the things that the things that we really liked about this movie i think he would have been drawn to those and kind of you know pitting the bringing up the satire and bringing up the the commentary on just you know politics and corruption and but it remains a fun movie it doesn't feel like two hours which normally inferior sequels feel very long i will say it didn't feel like two hours i actually had to look at the timer when kane appeared to realize how far into the movie we were so it it does move along there are good characters there are interesting scenes that will stick with you so it's it's it is not robocop three that's probably the easiest thing to say is robocop three is an insult period isn't that isn't that kind of a thing though if you're like hey whoa not as bad as robocop three like robocop two not as bad as three though so well i just i just mean that i i've heard people say well two and robocop two and three are basically equally bad it's like no they're not no no not at all not at all that's not true at all two just could not achieve anything close to the first one and i don't know how fair it would be to expect it without everybody from the first one coming back it almost never works i just compare it to the i compared to the mad max movies i compared to the mad max the first three i compared to that where the first one was one thing the second one was like was was a good thing and it kept kind of like diluting as as you went through it now the road war i feel like the second one that one is just like all the things that i i'd want to see and the third one was great but like the the action ramped down and the intensity and the violence went away so when fury road came out i was like oh this should have been what the third movie was this one this this should have been that it was short violent exciting done here's your movie yep people may have died in this film like people people people were put in mortal danger to make this movie as exciting as possible i talked about that that the right the reasons i don't think then we'll end in the second year but one of the reasons i say you shouldn't compare furyos in a few road is fury road was made at a singular moment where i really do believe that most of the people thought this is the last one we'll ever get to do like this so we're just going to take a risk that will be decapitated to make sure the scene works and that's not good that should not be what happens but if you believe enough and you think this is your one shot you do tend to go overboard so yeah it's yes no one should die from no everyone can die in the movie but no one should die from the movie yes yeah yes so i think both of us agree robocop to a lot of fun just say your expectations properly it's not going to live up to the first one if you don't expect that and you go in and you just want to see peter weller and company having a good time and then get that you'll have some memorable scenes and it is entertaining it up so i think that's the final word right anything else that i think you said it all well then that will conclude our robocop two discussion for the evening we will move on to predator to shortly for anybody watching a reminder that uh Doug's work can be found at doggbeomier.com there will be a link in the show notes or on the screen probably in the second or something like that and uh that Doug's latest album music for billionaires is still the latest album correct it's the latest one uh there's some other things happening uh we've got another synth fest coming up and uh we've uh i've got some other um projects in the work so probably not too long before i'll be trying to be on here hocking a new album so sure that's fine you can come hock whatever you want on here okay i'll make t-shirts uh chachky yeah it'll be a lot of chachky this time a lot of chachky yeah a little shaking old bobblehead of you that hangs on a cell phone and yeah sure why not you know put a DB on the hat and it's like yeah that's what they do now uh supreme do a thing with supreme the kids are in a supreme i hear something like that sure well i know about anything i'm too older to be into this stuff and now we're moving on to what i as an opening question for me i think of these two movies this is the one that is the more purely fun and i think is the more the better version of a sequel robo cop two is fun but not necessarily a great sequel to robo cop i think predator two which is what we're going to be talking about tonight is an exceptionally fun sequel that i think i have one air thing that later on i'll nitpick about this movie but outside of that i really love this movie pretty much beginning to end oh i should welcome back dr. Doug Bealmeyer teaching professor at Orpheus University musician whose latest album music for billionaires is available everywhere that better music is sold so dug your feelings on predator two as a sequel yeah better music and even you know kind of borderline music it's sold there too so you can get it get it wherever um yeah my that's i agree with all that i think it's a bigger budget i feel then robo cop two i feel like i feel like there was a little bit more there there was bigger stars there was there's a little bit more you know you got like morten downey junior in it basically playing himself as the you know um and a lot of great kind of known actors that were in it um from the time so um yeah it's exciting i have some i have some like problems with this movie but also i think as far as the potential of this movie and at the like first hour in i'm like this is a good movie i'm like why did i because i think when we first talked about this i was like i don't know Joe i don't you know i don't know about that one and you're like no it's good it's good and i'm like yeah you know i remember being good but what was wrong with it and the first hour is um it's great it sets everything up um and for me um and we'll talk about this more but for me it's sort of maybe the third act really um or maybe even the second and third act where it gets it gets a little murky but um man it's it's still fun like i saw it fun like from start to finish and there's so many cool things that happen um and uh Dan at least Danny Glover doesn't say i'm too old for this shit at any point in the movie so luckily he doesn't reprise his rigs role from uh the lethal weapon franchise so yeah interestingly there are a bunch of maktiran and regulars there's lethal weapon people sprinkled throughout this film there's Danny Glover there's the guy who plays i i don't know what what his the actor's name is but he's in that opening shoot out and he's the guy who was the lieutenant or the whatever their chief was in lethal weapon right Gary bucy of course he's just like a like a swat guy random guy yeah he basically he has a live dialogue here's voice it's very distinctive and if you see him you'll know him because if you know leave the weapon you'll recognize him right away so for a minute i had to remind myself that no maktiran didn't direct this one right no and he didn't and steven hopkins who did he did a number of well-known films this is not like a one-off type of director yeah but he didn't do like i think he did lost in space is probably for the sci-fi community that's probably the most other significant film he did but um when he did one of the nightmare in elm street as well yeah he did the dream child which i actually think is a it's a good nightmare in elm street sorry my screen just went suddenly very bright because i was looking at he's directing yeah okay yeah i can't take that anymore oh god shut that off all right so yes um so right off the bat though one of the first notes i have is the opening the opening is great where the jungle pans up absolutely so you think for it's like a fake out it's great and then comes up in its la yeah that is probably one of the best openings as far as the and they brought back the original score one of our criticisms of robocop 2 was that the score is completely disposable now some people might say that it was a cop-out to just reuse so much of the original predator score i disagree i think it was probably one of the smartest decisions they made that score is so dynamite that why mess with it i mean there are other parts where they do bring in kind of music that's more supposed to be reflective of like the voodoo gang and that type of stuff but they come back to the core music right and i think not changing a thing best decision you could make on a soundtrack because this one immediately when you hear that music you think yep predator we're in predator no matter the fact that it's la and it's a city now you know where you are it's great it's one of the best scores as far as locking you into what the movie and the the creature are i think they were great not to change it yeah and that's you know ellen sylvester he did a lot of films he did uh one of my favorite scores of his is the back to the future score um and um that one is uh it's kind of interesting you know especially like in the first back to the future there's so much of the period music of like the 50s and that but um that score especially in the like time machine scenes where there's all this like kind of like oh man are they gonna you know is he gonna get to go back home all this and that like those really great intense scenes a lot of the orchestration really helps that and yeah his score is great from the original because it's basically like two parts there's like the da da da da da da which is like when they're running through the woods like in the first or through the jungle in the first one and they're like you know hunting down these gorillas in the woods um and then there's like the hero's theme where it's just like a alone alone trumpet you know the lone hero you know prevails and so they mess around with that a lot and i think there's even scenes too where they like play around with it that there's like you know danny glovers in it so there's more of like a you know urban feel or like african-american feel so they have it like a little bit jazier and all this and that and uh so like there's a lot of uh it's great because i i'm especially has done a lot of movies he's done a lot of some of our favorite scores from some of our movie favorite movies and so you know they hired the real the real thing it's like you know there's john williams there's you know um some of these top names um hanzimer you know they're just like they've basically done the score for pretty much every movie we like you know hanzimer and the christopher nolan films i mean that those films are great but man those scores add a whole other thing um so i so i think yeah they had they had a real score and it was a real good one and um it works in both and yeah i love that opening you're just like oh we're back in the jungle so this one is gonna start with like maybe where the other one left off in the jungle and it's like oh no you're just in l.a during heatwave yeah and and that that is the the heat part they emphasize that everybody's always sweating everybody's clothes are so through i think that's a great way of just constantly reinforcing that uh unlike reality where there might be a heat dome that causes northern california have hundred degree plus temperature it's pretty you know two and a half weeks because that's normal now right you know but it is a really yeah but there's always this kind of visual cues over and over that yeah i mean they say it's hot as well but you just always know because everybody looks like they're about to fall down out of heat exhaustion and so we get this beautiful opening where l.a has just become a war zone it's it's i think it's supposed to be 1997 right is that the other thing come up i think seven it's nine yeah and l.a has just become the you get this great action pack shootout where there's just squibs and it's almost like heat level just people going crazy right that car blows up and that's when you get that jazzy bit when the car explodes there's this slow motion you get this really distinctive musical cue which i was like oh so yeah that's that's nice it's emphasizes it's great i love the opening of this movie it's so good and it felt a lot like by the way i was like wait so i'm like they're gonna pick up with the old predator or predator one they're gonna pick up in the jungle no wait we're in l.a and then i'm like wait did am i watching lethal weapon like what happened here like it's clearly a jole silver production right because a lot of the characters from jole you know like even you said some of the actors that would be in a jole silver movie like you know um lethal weapon like they were like in this scene so at first i'm just like wait is this like lethal weapon like what what movie am i watching yeah no honestly if if Mel Gibson had popped up in like an uncredited role dressed as as uh murtaugh it would not have shocked me because this does feel like was he rigs wait which one was he he was he was rigged oh did i mess up he was rigs i think danny glutton i think he is i always i always reverse him because honestly who cares what their names are it's not really important yeah but he would have had to by the way he would have had to have the mullet if he was oh that's no that's what i was saying is he would have had to look exactly the same what would work that's the gag so yeah we get this beautiful immediately tells you that this is uh you know the worst of the worst and they'll emphasize it over and over that this is like the worst place you could be right as far as drugs crime everything's gone to shit it's more hundred degrees outside right cops are outmatched they're getting shot down and then you get this wonderful thing where danny gluffer armors his car yeah basically drives it while hanging out the side yeah spins it around to get the cops out that are injured which is great because it does you know that's because he emphasizes multiple times it's about the team and so you see that right away even though he doesn't say that right you immediately understand what his his evaluation is he's not trying to be the lone hero while people get shot down his first priority is get these people out then we'll go after them and then you get the whole thing where he's like oh you know i'm not going to wait for backup whatever right but we get our first little bit of morton danny jr which is basically laying out what this what this uh what our la scene is and he is perfectly cast uh if you've never seen in younger people might not know this is not insult it's just reality you might not have ever seen the morton down in junior shoe show go watch it it is trash tv at some of its best it's right up there with uh richard bay in terms of oh like a jerry sprener yeah jerry sprener right but the first like the original warden danny warden danny was like the inventor inventor more danny was shoving women around on the stage while he was chain smoking i mean it was just such a such a time capsule type of show right but they put him in the role of a of a hard-hitting reporter for a hardcore which i'd love and uh here is his explanation of why la might not be the best place to visit in in 1997 tony home live with hardcore i've seen it in your face it's like dot he's held down here small fire oppressor beat as colombian and Jamaican drug phage once again transform the streets of LA into a slaughterhouse who the hells in charge down here the cops uh-oh they're outmaned outgun and incompetent mr mare on vacation to your home and like tahoe get off your butt get down here and declare martial law and the car crash you were hearing in the background that was basically danny glover's arrival on the scene but i do like the fact that he does reference a slaughterhouse in that opening and then our final confrontations in the slaughterhouse so there is these little kind of setup payoffs but that's just a real throwaway quick thing you might forget about it but he does say slaughterhouse and then our final big fight or one of them is in a slaughter house so this sets up that LA's in bad shape the mayor he constantly is complaining about the mayor being out of town doesn't care is it isn't there which sure it never becomes a big plot point but it's kind of funny but his delivery is perfect he he's playing that character which he played in real life or was yeah i don't know yeah and it really just sets up hey this is this is really bad and then we get our big opening shootout where they are fighting the jib the columbians i believe is this game because there's two gangs yep the Jamaicans and the columbians yep and and we get this wonderful you know they're they're fighting that's the cops they are forced to retreat after danny glover shows up and we get this great scene where the guy with the two oozy snorts coke and just goes like this and he's like all just it's yeah this opening is so great it is such a wonderful opening to this film because it just sets up how bad everything is and that the cops are barely able to even survive against just one gang of at least three that we hear about in the mood which is Jamaicans columbians and i believe kingly's voodoo gang are their own thing i don't think they're right or columbians yeah so they and there's different competing groups and yeah but those are the two major ones um i do love by the way the opening with uh Morton Downey Jr um i love that opening because um it's the same mechanism as robocop and both robocops really right where we're using this like newscast to tell us what what the hell is going on like what is the reality we're in but i love this one so much more because it it almost reminds me of Oliver Stone's natural born killers where you have Robert Downey Jr who is playing the same type of like you know sleazy reporter you know the Mickey and Mallory uh sort of uh over the top you know shock uh interviewer and um i think it works really great because it kind of lets you know like not only is this place like horrible it's hot it's horrible the mayor's checked out but then even the media is like part of the problem like they're just like they're they're filming everything right so it's not like everyone's checked out or scared he's like he's clearly like using this to get ratings um and there was another reporter we saw earlier a female reporter who's doing it and then she gets there's a bullet goes by and she's like oh fuck this yeah she's like i'm not doing this yeah yeah yeah yeah so again i didn't capture that because it's a it's kind of shortness a lot of noise in it but it does emphasize that you know everybody's fair game here but you're right this is and this is kind of how news is now it's if it if it bleeds it leads and this is literally them in the middle of it almost obstructing what's happening at at risk themselves but it does yeah like just right robo cop it lays out how bad things are it gives you an idea of it's so bad that the mayor's not even here and that the cops can't handle it because you know when he says the cops know they know they're outgunned out man and we do immediately then see that where if not for the fact that Danny Glover had a portable arsenal in his trunk and that they had laid all these kevlar vests on his car it's very likely that more cops would have been dead and and the ones that were injured probably would have died i mean these the the criminals are over powered they have guns and no limit on their clips just like most good action films nobody ever really has to reload no one ran out bullets no no nobody runs out of bullets uh you know they're their aim can be terrible when it needs to be that's on both sides by the way because we'll get to later how Bill Paxton somehow misses the predator who's 10 feet away from him with about 40 shots but yeah we'll get to that when we get to it so the gang is driven inside at which point the predator who we've seen and i also like the fact that there's no mystery with that they're not oh we don't see the predator for an hour no the predator is there immediately and is on the scene and it makes sense he's going after all these armed gangs and so he cuts these people two pieces immediately so i think uh i have predator shows up at minute eight so unlike the first film where there was a huge lead up to his yeah actually in the wind what what hour was it an hour in before we actually saw the predator and by that i mean when we actually saw him like that might have been the last 30 minutes of the movie or maybe the last 20 minutes of the movie when we actually saw the reveal yeah because we first only see him camouflaged i mean maxing the glowing eyes is really the first time we see him still right you know i mean there's the one part where he comes out and grabs the guy but that's all blurry and it's quick you don't really know what you're seeing and we don't see him and we don't see him unmasked uh without the masks oh it's the last 50 minutes or so yeah and that's terrifying no not even the unmasked is no that's the last maybe 10 minutes right so it like keeps ramping up where you're like seeing you're like what is that i can't see it then like wow this is this like very large alien and you you don't see under the mask and the under the mask is terrified like it's like half crab man thing like it's just it looks like a spider maybe it's it's horrible i mean in a great way like it's it's it's no it is no it is and and i don't think we don't even see him without his camouflage until he gets he falls into the water i think it's when he goes into the water and he comes out and he can't reactivate it so we see bits it the first movie it's definitely the mystery they're they're leading up to this monster and it's all about the terror of well you you know they have no concept of what it is and it's a horror it's more it feel it's more of a horror movie it's you know they refer to Schwarzenegger as the last girl you know like that idea in horror movies like the last person to survive forever so they often like refer to Schwarzenegger as like the last girl in this in the first predator it is in terms and it is a slasher film i mean that's what predator is it's a slasher film where the slasher is an alien but that is how it's played it's very horrific and when you see him he is grotesque the predator i mean is a grotesque creature and it's it's very low light so you don't really see much of it and you see enough you know what you know you're seeing a monster but it really is a slasher film with an alien monster at the end so it's they often talk about as being a great action film and it is but there's this low-level terror as these huge bulking men are being destroyed by something and they really have no chance against it until the very end where Schwarzenegger basically manages to hit him with a giant log i mean literally it is blunt force traumas the only way to reason that he wins it's not because the predator is really out he doesn't out punch him which is what a lesser movie would do where somehow you know he manages to knock him out which is i mean he hits him once the little thing just kind of goes like this and then he knocks him back about 50 feet it's great so yeah in this one though that's all gone it's just like nope the monsters here you know what this thing is you know how powerful is let's just get to it let's have this guy doing what we know he's going to do and they just get right to it and i think it's another fantastic decision dispel with the mystery and just give the people more of the thing they want to see and it's great because he still is threatening and powerful and he's still cutting people up yeah and he's lost none of the power of it there's nothing lost in in having more of him he actually works as having more sometimes that doesn't work it works really well here yeah you know and uh where the first film was like half an action like 80s action movie like it could have been commando like at first i was like wait am i right watching the right movie is this commando no but uh it's like an action movie 80s action movie like i feel like 80s action uh would that mean something and then it turns into this wonderful like kind of thriller horror slasher film um where this right off the bat i think it tells us this is going to be an action movie but this is a 90s action movie this is a this is a or or this is a you know post lethal weapon action movie this is this is a Joel Silver type of action film and so there's going to be people like hanging out of cars like you know bulletproof vests you know unlimited ammo and then right up like you said right off the bat there's the predator like right there and so i think you're like oh this is going to be a very different different film than the first and so when when the predator shows up he cuts down all the gang but one the gang member goes up the stairs danny glover follows him and the guy gets uh throw always shoots him because the guy sees the predator camouflaged and so danny glover shoots him we find out danny glover has a problem with heights and danny glover immediately sees the predator camouflaged and you know thinks that maybe he was hallucinating but he also is kind of sure he saw something but you could play it up to okay fear of heights the he you know i was imagining something uh the guy was on coke so maybe he was hallucinating but it's great because again there isn't Schwarzenegger and all the rest of them not knowing what they're facing until it's no no this is all up front because like you said the priority here is it's an action film it's an action film with an alien monster and they set that up really well and so then they go back down or danny glover goes back down they find the gang cut to pieces and we get a bit of a this movie is filled with little bits of recycling that are kind of massaged a bit but they are fundamentally the same scenes but done the way that i don't mind most of the time and this is one of them we're going to get an echo of the scene where they find the woman she's covered in blood and uh what's the guy's name not parker i don't remember what his name was whoever it is has been butchered and so this is a variation on that scene so what happened to this caterpillar oh he's out front having lunch what the hell is this i don't know taping god two pieces must be the Jamaicans this time but where the hell did they go okay nobody gets in here until forensic arrives nobody getting you know the trail so [Music] Mike up there must have been killed out here then someone that's about 35 40 feet no rope no ladder the guy waits about 190 195 pounds you couldn't carry him up there lieutenant deputy chief vitamins downstairs he wants you and your people out of the building now son of a bitch okay so a few things so this sets up kind of our analogs to the first movie again where danny is billy billy is the one in the movie who immediately recognizes that something is off and danny is that role here where danny is seeing things and doesn't necessarily jump like billy does straight to well this is no man that's hunting us or whatever but danny clearly is sensing that something's not right he gets the idea that how could somebody pick this guy up he's saying how could there be a team of people and we never see any of them they all managed to escape so danny immediately is the billy character who is picking up at least that there's more to this or potentially more and then we also have maria conchita alanso if i'm getting that right who for all intents and purposes would be the mac i guess of this team where she's kind of the trusted secondary yeah danny is too but i feel like she's the tough maybe she'd be the just even sure i don't know whatever whatever coralish you want to make or the two of them just mashed together and so this is our initial team that it's the three-person team billy bill i always said billy packs and bill packs then we'll come later and we will have a a clip of his introduction which is magnificent correct but i do like the fact that we immediately get a repeat of the okay what happened and this doesn't make any sense right and you know and it's a basic setup of the same thing from predator where we see a skinned person and you know the fact that it doesn't make sense with the way these gangs work so it is basically recycling that scene but it's fine it works and again just it reminds you what is going on if the characters aren't completely on board with what's happening but i don't think it goes overboard i don't think it's a bad case of recycling i think it's smart to reference that because yeah they don't know what this thing is and it's running around and cutting people up yeah because it is that maybe 30 minutes 45 minutes in the first movie where they find what they think is the old team the old i guess rescue team that have been skinned alive yeah yeah skinned alive up in the tree so i i think it's like kind of reminiscent of that but like you're saying we're like maybe minute 10 maybe minute 15 at this point and we're already sort of you know through that part where the characters are now even realizing this is beyond something you know that the Jamaican or uh clumbian cartel are doing like this this is this has to be another and outside outside group yeah 12 minutes i actually have the timestamp because when i do my clips i make sure i have timestamps so yeah 12 minutes in and we're basically at where as you said it's 30 to 40 minutes in because again that movie was all about the mystery of it where it has this whole portion where it does seem like it's command or any other standard Schwarzenegger film until a certain point this movie no no no we're we're getting right to it the predators here he's doing stuff people are aware of it and so then we get very similar to robocop too after this scene we get a well first we meet uh i don't remember the actor's name i always just call him the fratelli brother he's been in a million things oh my god yeah uh what's his name is uh it's uh robert uh robert davy dovey robert dovey yeah he was like uh he was the villain in one of the um yeah he was a fratelli brother oh he was in the best bond film yes i said it the best bond film the best bond film was the best bond and i don't know fight on that one over and over i don't know carryable is pretty is one of my probably my favorite bond girl so yeah definitely but uh otherwise that movie like no there's better bond movies is that there there there we'll discuss this at a different time that's all i think that's all my adoration for license to kill and i will i will go down i'll be able to do it is it a good is it a very good one absolutely absolutely yeah and dalton was the best bond but again that's not this episode looking back to that i don't want to hear contrary people i don't want to hear it whatever leave your comments in the youtube thing below i guess because that's what i'm supposed to say now right well what are your thoughts you know what your means you have to leave a comment like subscribe and hit that notification bell or whatever the hell it is yeah uh so we get this uh so robert dovey shows up it's clear that danny glover and i'm not going to even call my his character name he's just danny glover he is he's danny glover yeah i didn't even remember his name was mike until that clip so danny glover is chewed out and we get the idea that immediately he does not play by the rules he doesn't like authority he is doing he's essentially dirty harry that was by the way that scene where he gets chewed out by uh davi i i just i feel like that scene was just like i'm like what the hell is he wearing like like i feel like they were doing the future thing and everybody else was kind of wearing sort of futuristic clothing but whatever kind of like weird like urban soldier outfit that the the chief had on i was just like what is going on and then i'm like wait that's the bad guy from the bond film why is he was he the chief of police i'm like meanwhile the chief of police is on the swat squad from the earlier scene right yeah so i i just like in that the acting in that like it was just like it was weird like danny went way over the top and i was just like okay well that that's a little misstep there but by the way up until this point uh watching this movie i'm like man they're just like going right to it like we're getting right into it this is good and and and watching it back i'm like wow this has all all these great elements all these things are coming together well you're right the thing is the movie has tremendous momentum until it really gets to the third act uh but other than that this movie is just moving in groove in the whole time like there are no dead spots really there i mean there might be one or two scenes that aren't optimal but it's not like you're sitting there for ten minutes going okay we need to start doing it now this movie is constantly in motion it is that it's almost like that oppressive heat is driving the movie like it's it's fueling the whole thing so you're right the dovey is dressed as if he's from a different movie he's acting like he's from a different movie did you feel like super not super troopers but uh star ship troopers i felt like it was reminiscent of one of the outfits no he would have looked he would have looked perfectly in place there and he does feel like he's in a traditional police drama which is not what this film is so it is odd i do like him as an actor so i don't really care and he's got a beautiful singing voice i mean you know i may have mother problems with him as a person but i do think he seems beautifully and so he is perfectly cast as this type of character the problem is this character shouldn't be in this movie so it's kind of just he just felt out of place like he didn't even know like it just felt like he's like wait what am i doing now what what why am i wearing this outfit like yeah it does make you wonder was he brought in last minute and really just didn't get what the movie was it does feel like a strange character and performance now he's barely in it so it doesn't really matter but it is it sticks out now i might be mistaken but wasn't he one of the fbi agents in die hard didn't he come in later remember when later in die hard when the um you might be right i'm making the connection to predator by the way with the the same same director but um you might be right i don't remember off hand but you that because it was like the two agents and they were gonna like sharpshoot somebody or something like that like yeah i think we can look them up here but um i'm gonna look them up why not yeah i think he let's see he's done a lot of a lot of things but uh die hard right there you are correct special agent johnson you hit it so i feel like we're seeing him as a cop like there was there was precedent for that so i feel like it's like okay like oh yeah he's just like the you know the grizzled cop type thing but then i don't know why he's wearing a starship trooper's outfit yeah that just by the way they're like prior to this i'm loving everything i love it i'm loving all the action i'm loving everything that's you know it's just like okay and then it didn't seem to matter because the the movie just kind of pushes right forward uh onto some other really great scenes that's what i mean is he basically comes in gives this i guess default no no no you're getting out of the order type of thing and just checks out he's just immediately in and out so it doesn't matter because it's not he doesn't become enough of a character for it to really make you get annoyed but he's out of place he does feel like he's dropped in from another movie but that's the 90s somebody had computer inserted him you know that they moved him but that's the 90s action movie where i feel like the 80s action movie is like yaman america like we're fighting against communist here something like that or like the russians where like i feel like the 90s one is like we've got to change things up here a little bit guys like the captain like the mayor's on my ass for you know he's like the mayor just chewed me out or whatever and like you got a straight up or whatever like you guys got to stop you caused all this damage you know whatever like the classic lethal weapon setup where they caused you know like million dollars of damage or whatever pursuing uh perpetrators so i feel like that's what that scene was trying to be and i'm just like where where are we yeah it as you said it's it doesn't fit really it's it's almost like you had the habit otherwise right there is sort of a thing where well could Danny Glover just do all this stuff and nobody bothers to check on what he's doing but it but honestly if it wasn't there would anybody care no you could cut those scenes out it wouldn't make any difference to anything really so but it's a way for him to be pissed off at his superiors or his superior superior because he doesn't have a problem with his direct sergeant i guess i don't remember how it matters yeah yeah yeah he seems to be fine with him it's the guy above him so but it gets us into the the next scene which is the police station which i adore the giant concrete blockades yes that are out in front of the police station i don't know if that's true if there is an LA station somewhere that has those i'm assuming not because they look cartoonishly too large it looks like things are supposed to stop you know battleship not you know a car trying to ram that thing right but then we go inside and this is very similar to in robocop to when we get that opening where we're seeing all the crimes escalated right yeah in here we get this long sequence inside the police station of all the unruly people and the criminals and we've got hookers and we got a guy breaking out of his uh whatever custody we've got somebody complaining and we got oh i'll be right with you and it's just hot and steamy and people everywhere and it's miserable and it's great yeah it sets up the whole scene for you with the station how miserable everything is again always emphasizing that this is basically the what is it more than you said dante's hell yeah that's what this is and we see that the police station is no respite from all the chaos it's great yeah and you mentioned world building and one of the reasons we picked this movie is that we were talking about sequels that created a whole other world or like an additional world to the the first film and that's why you know just this whole scene and everyone's like sweaty like he said and it's just like it sets it up that like and there was so many there's like like three times too many people in that space even though it was a large space there was like too many people in it and it just felt like this larger than life scene and i keep going back to two so like at some point in the scene too like they're just going to like change their shirts so they like have extra shirts in their desks just because they're sweating through whatever they have on they're just sweating through it so even in the air conditioned police office we assume it's some you know police station is somewhat air conditioned you know people are just sweating through their clothing and yeah just i love that how it just continued everyone everyone's just sweating yeah i i almost wish that they didn't have any of the characters mentioned the heat because i think the visuals do it for you they do have characters that periodically say oh it's just so hot and honestly you don't need that information in here the movie communicates that through all of what's going on and how everybody is covered and sweat and you don't see a lot of movies where the hero characters are constantly sweating through their clothes and in this movie it's constant so that i could have done what that's a nitpick though i mean it's a minor nitpick but i i say that because i think the movie did a great job in visually communicating it you didn't really need that so then we get our first introduction to agent keys which is the Gary Busey character who you have on your monitor behind you in in one of his better roles that is towards the end of the film so yeah that's his death scene that's his death scene that is his next to death scene yeah yeah and so we get an introduction to him and we also have the sergeant or whatever captain basically telling Danny Glover and of course we know how this is going to end up that hey you need to cooperate because the feds are in charge and we have to we have to back them up but this is a great little scene that introduces keys and reinforces as if we really needed it at this point that Danny Glover does not like authority hey cap don't start with me Mike oh i didn't anyone's already been up my ass so far i won't be able to sit down for a week we're not winning this war as much as it's going to piss you off you're going to have to play the game on this effective immediately federal task force under the direction of special agent peter keys will be investigating criminal activities involving the trafficking and distribution of controlled substances you will extend him your full cooperation which means you cut it off my dick is shoving it up my ass god dammit mike the feds are calling the shots on this my hands are tied yeah captain pilgrim peter keys that's good to meet you ask to meet you sir turn him like arrogant special agent peter keys dea heard a lot about you i'm sorry for this jurisdictional intrusion don't mean to be stepping on your toes we're attempting to prevent king willies voodoo gangs from taking over and controlling the entire west coast i wish i could tell you more but we have a large number of deep cover operatives involved here you know how it is we all have a job to do i'm sure we can respect each other's situation and act responsibly well cooperation is my middle name i'll see you around beautiful scene again echoing the first movie where car weathers comes across at first as not i mean he knows what's bigger so it's a little different they were friends but still comes across as oh yeah you know what uh we're just going to go in there and we're gonna we're gonna rescue these people and it's no big deal this is just a standard thing there's no ulterior motive whatsoever and keys is the same thing i'm glad that they didn't overplay him as just hostile and villainous right off the bat he seems as if you hadn't see the movie before you might think oh no he's he's just a fed who's coming in and they they they have people in place and they have to be careful like nothing he says immediately goes no and he comes across relatively friendly enough although he does end with saying hey we all have a job to do so you know stay in your place but they play it pretty evenly which i actually like i think it's bucey can go way over the top way over the top and they don't do that with him at least at this point he comes across and presents a reasonable scenario and we get immediately i think Danny Glover thinks he's full of shit or just doesn't like feds we don't know which and so you know responds with oh i'm all about cooperating and it's it's a great little scene between the two of them yeah and honestly like you almost didn't need the previous scene where he's being chewed out by uh Robert Davy like uh adavi uh like you didn't need that because it kind of was all encompassed in there it's like the you know the mayor's been he's been it's so far out my ass i won't be able to sit down like i mean like that's such the 90s like action movie maybe late 80s 90s i don't know somewhere around that time where it was all about like every cop basically was do did the job did it hard and so it made it tough for their administrators but and the administrators kept them around because they got the job done but they were the bane of their existence and in any of these movies there's always like the three-fourths the way through where they like have to take their gun in badge you know and then they have to do it they have to do it on the streets on their own way or whatever which got a little bit of that happens in this movie but um but i actually heard a rumor and i don't know if you can confirm this but i heard that originally the role of Gary Busea and uh that character was going to be offered was offered to Arnold Schwarzenegger and the idea was it was supposed to be Arnold Schwarzenegger's character who we would now see in a suit and kind of be like so it's almost like you know the original character from the movie um now was more like the Carl Weathers character you know sort of you know working for the CIA or in this case that you know the d uh d uh d uh d uh dea yeah well there were two versions uh that i that i've read about that one was that that it was initially offered to Schwarzenegger and i i think he just didn't think it was the way that character would go the other version that they initially have played around with and there's no reason that this well the fact his name is keys would kind of make it not this but the another pitch was and i actually kind of like this idea that keys would have been dutch's brother and that after what happened his brother disappeared and never recovered from what happened and so he had a personal grudge against the predator that's not a terrible idea i don't know if it would have been done well but i don't hate it as a kind of connection to the first one i don't know that it needs that connection i think it doesn't so i don't care that it's not there but it's it's more interesting than Schwarzenegger coming back in that role because that doesn't make sense after his experiences especially losing his whole team and the whole thing about we're not assassins why would he go to work for the government i mean i guess if he wants the predator that badly but he killed the other one so i don't know that doesn't make as much sense as it being his brother and that basically he couldn't recover from everything that happened i could sort of see that um neither one i think is is something where i'm like oh we should have gotten that i think this functions fine keys is just the default fed guy and an overly arrogant and uh as we find out um not not as he shouldn't have been as confident in his plan as we as he thought he should be which uh i kind of like because it goes back to that robocop idea of well the corporation wasn't quite as clever as they thought well neither was the government in this way so i like this whole setup i like it obviously in the role uh it functions very well as kind of the non alien antagonist so i like how this was done you're right and once again you know you're talking about similar characters with like Ruben blades and maria conjida alanzo are similar characters to like billy and mac from the first movie um this is kind of similar to where maybe keys is similar to the you know carl wethers character who's kind of like the cia cia guy he's like the outside guy and so he has other motives behind um you know uh being out there and in this case you know being in l.a. but you know in the first movie it was like you know why was carl wethers out in that jungle was it really for the uh you know there was supposed to be hostages that type of thing or was it really because of the predator yeah so like i said yeah the analogs i think work because like i said i've seen criticisms that this movie recycles too much of the first movie and i don't think it does i think it just recognizes that this is one of those times where the printer is a creature that works well to just keep throwing in different settings with different people because again this is such a it's such a great idea to not redo the jungle to put this in a city and just have it be a heat wave and of course with a bunch of gang warfare that would attract him they do say later and there's a clip where you'll hear it where keys explains that the predators are drawn to areas of heat and conflict and it's such a natural idea to expand off of the first one because they lay that stuff they sprinkle that around where she says oh these creatures that the one in the first film is talking about how yeah they show up when it's really hot the hottest scenes you know yeah yeah and this year it's very hot and so this is i feel like unlike a lot of other movies where they start trying to bend the idea of the creature to other environments and it doesn't make sense right this one it really does they're lone hunters they want to test themselves against whatever is around and the gangs would be the strongest as we've heard and i don't know if the movie really necessarily intentionally does this but i always kind of read this as a as a subtext is the reason the printer is not hunting cops is because they're not the toughest guys in town the gangs are so the predator hasn't bothered with the cops yet because they're getting slaughtered it's the gangs that are running everything so of course he would go yeah i'll go over to the gangs because they're tougher but there was this weird thing too in the first movie and they play with it in the second movie too is this idea that the predator has some type of honor because he's a sportsman i guess a sports alien you know where he's like a hunter and so he has some you know morals or you know i only hunt prey that is worthy of being hunted you know like the idea of like holding a gun or not having a gun uh in the you know in the original film and of course there's a scene later in this movie too where they play around with the idea of you know is the victim innocent or or not yeah right well and and that feeds into if you if you want to expand it thematically and get very you know hoity toity film school analysis about it there is this idea that the predator represents machismo and so a macho man is not going to want he'll you know fight me like a man a fair fight you know you want to be on even ground and so i think that's just kind of something that you automatically map to it you don't think about the logic of why would an alien have the right concept of honor and trophies it doesn't matter because what you understand is that's a reflection of oh it's the toughest guy around he's the you know the big dick in the room and that's what the predator is supposed to be you know that's not really that because yeah that's a really interesting point because if you think about like Jason Voorhees and Freddie they don't like take off you know drop the knife because their victim doesn't have one they don't have this like kind of you know and if we're looking at it purely as like a slasher like the origins are a slasher movie like you don't usually have the scary monster or the you know the stalker sort of make sure that the tables are even or you know the playing fields even so that is a weird thing that that that for some reason the predator is like fights fair and it's like if you you know because even in the first movie he takes he realizes you know um you know sword senator's character doesn't have weapons so he takes off his armor he takes off his his mask well it's and it's a neat way to make the audience somewhat root for your villain because the thing is like Freddie is a child molesting murderer right that's what he does Jason is a mindless killing machine even though if you know Jason's backstory you somewhat understand why he doesn't like camp counselors they did let him drown Michael Myers become is the same thing he's just he's just a faceless almost I mean they tried to make him into something later but his initial idea was just random acts of violence and so there is no sympathy for anything but the people who are the victims the people running away whereas in this you look at the predator you're like yeah right I mean he's he's murdering people but he doesn't just gleefully kill anybody he's not gonna he won't kill a child like it's almost like they don't have to say that but you know that in fact we see in this movie that he goes up to a kid and yeah not one of my favorite scenes in the film that whole little exchange but yeah this isn't that third that third part we've been we were going to discuss it but even without that scene you you understand as the audience that the predator wouldn't kill a child right he wouldn't because there's no honor in it because we understand his coat of honor because it's a human coat of honor even though he's an alien like it's just inferred in his actions so I think that allows you to like the predator as a creature more and not necessarily want to see him die you don't want to see him win but you really don't want to see him get you know too battered around you kind of like the fact he's taking on especially in this gang's like fuck it it's gangs go ahead kill him you know they're criminals why not so unlike the first movie again you're sort of rooting for it's again it plays into that idea of I don't know you want to see the predator kill people because these are bad people until we get to the end of the standing lover then you that's the point where you stop right but up to that point yeah let it murder people they're just criminals whatever capital punishment americans do it why shouldn't the predator go for it yeah I just also it's weird then so he's like they're on vacation like he's just like he's like on vacation in LA like you're hunting he went on a hunting vacation we never know what the predators do on their home planet for all we know they're accountants most of the time and this is their smart yep they're punching numbers into a terminal that happens here is people are stuck in an office all day and then they pay two grand to go to african shoot elephants because they want to feel like tough guys yeah for all we know this again the macho thing is universal truly universal so I don't know we we never got a idea of what their regular lives are on their planet so who knows this this could just be safari for them i mean i think that's pretty much what i think they play it to me so we go from this scene where we get me keys and we understand what he's about pretty much is the audience i think we all know that there's more going on there and then we get our introduction to good old Bill Paxton a gem of a human being who live in anything that he's in and this is just a again the movie knows how to introduce concepts and people and we get all of it so this is the entire his his first real dialogue with the uh baria conchita alonzo character right up to danny glover sitting him down for his talk about what it means to be a cop in the war looks like he's putting the rules to me oh my god his first big mistake like your last one got shot you try that car bullshit with me fucking you can kiss this goodbye got it oh yeah well well i see that the three of you have met Lambert if you're feeling up to it why don't you limp your way in and go see the lieutenant he wants to talk to you god damn that bitch on the right or what she's screaming this is what i call the speech kid it's the only one i got i only give it once so pay attention till now it's all been fun to games cops and rivals don't condone us but you're in the shit now metro command is a war so lieutenant i paid my dues i had to bust my ass to get my transfer and that scares the shit out of me kid no one requests to come down there unless they're looking for a reputation there's no room for show boats anyone looking to prove themselves i won't stand for it they don't get me wrong we need good cops down here and they say you're good at what you do but the team comes first you live by that and you'll be okay and we'll all be there for you remember that door swings both ways that's it hey kid welcome to the war i love how the music comes up right at the end to emphasize like again the score is done so again the opposite of robo cop too not to make it like we're dumping on robo cop too we had a lot of fun with that movie but this is exactly what you lose when music isn't in the score and soundtrack are not used to emphasize where they're not memorable where they're not used correctly this is exactly a movie to say to watch this right after robo cop too just reemphasize is how important the music is to a film especially when music is so associated which robo cop one had that too the score is part of that movie predator the score was part of it and they were smart to go nope we're not going to try to redo it we're not going to try to 90s it or modernize it no we'll stick with what works because we know these beats work and people will recognize them and it's such a great thing that they and they don't overdo it they use it when it's important they use the right parts at the right times but also this is a great i mean the thing with his comment about is she on the rag it's this is such a action male macho action film that even the idea again we have we've now had the mentions of penises and they're they're the horror of having them put into places you don't want or torn off or grabbed right three times at least in just in these clips so you you understand what the point of this movie is it is an amount macho action film but it great Bill Paxton fantastic you know he's just great and he can't do a bad performance for me in anything really yeah you know it remind me of his character in true lies where he plays the you know um the maybe the adulterer who knows that type of thing and uh you know in that source enneger you know uh fantasizes just you know bashing his head in or whatever but he plays like you know a used car salesman type um and and this is a flavor of that this is a more nuanced performance but um i immediately i was like oh he plays this character so well and uh you know they they call on him to do it quite a bit um but yeah just going back to the music i mean that sort of rattle kind of the jungle rattle i refer to it in the first movie it always kind of uh it's a great dovetail what we would call musically so it dovetails that scene to go into the next scene and it for me it was always in the jungle scenes and kind of was when we were panning away from some dialogue you know looking out at the jungle and i think it does a great job in this because it's not kind of like l_a.'s the jungle you know now and this is the and the heat and you know the humidity um i think it's all wrapped up in it and then it also has something to do with the predator too i feel like it's it's a little bit of a motive for the predator we're gonna have a scene with the predator or the predator's coming back um so um wonderfully done and that's why i said like these composers like ounce of estuary and a lot of these other like kind of traditional composers that did a lot of the you know the film scoring for these movies um just knew how to you know how to transition from a scene knew how to accent of a piece of dialogue a beat and um so i just it's yeah you know and that was really on point and like you said yeah we missed that from robocop 2 which like we said after we we we talked to like three hours about robocop 2 we were like was there a score can you remember we only remember the one scene with uh the um the uh very adult child who had his kind of uh death and we thought the music was a little sappy in that scene um but that's about that's about as far as we went but here right away we've got these like quick cuts and and all this music that's helping kind of dovetail one scene to another yeah i always felt like the jungle rattle was the jaws theme for predator it was the indicator that there's a threat that's something you have to be careful because it always felt like it was the tension theme that was going on and it does immediately evoke the idea of the jungle and and and it is a good these are this what i mean is the movie is mostly very smart about its callbacks and its references and its ways of evoking the first movie it slips here and there but in general i think it does a good job of saying no no this is this is still a predator movie it's a different version but the predator is still the predator and he is i mean the predator is a character until we get to the third act where we get one liners from the predator which is not my favorite thing about this film really isn't but as far as his actions up until that point until when it gets a little muddy he is exactly the character and now he's enhanced because we go from that to a very intense sex scene which i have no explanation for i don't know what's going on in there i it's a lot of noise involved and a lot of movement which would seem to be in this type of heat would cause some friction burns well he probably they have air conditioning it's it seems like it's in this high rise type building so you know they probably it looks like a beautiful right it's like a penthouse i would you know this is this is like a bachelor pad right peak 90s i think i put yeah this is a peak 90s bachelor pad i would have loved to live in this place when i was younger the singer are you kidding it's great so we get this the sex scene with one of the columbians i believe or is it jim make it no columbians no it's columbians because then jim make-ins kind of the jim make-ins show up is interrupt is yes and so uh will these men show up and we get this beautiful scene where they're talking about voodoo magic and it's great and again it's this is a 90s voodoo gang top to bottom i love this gang yeah they're great you know that i had i had a cigar moment there i was like oh i haven't seen marked for death in a long time i'm like i gotta go watch the because i remember out for justice i think that's the first cigar movie i was like i remember watching it a few years ago and being like yeah it's a little cheesy but uh not too bad not too bad i wonder how well marked for death and then is it out to kill i wonder how well it was a age i'll have to kill holds up i can tell you how to kill holds up yeah so i mean it holds up as what it is right i mean i'm not saying that this is a great film that people have slept on i'm saying it's the best of cigar which is the best of a specific container his first three movies were like you're like okay this guy's doing you know he's doing a lot of fun yeah a lot of fun yeah as the weight as the weight increases as the weight increases i feel the quality goes down there's a as the weight and the ego ballooned yeah the quality deflated it's just that's there was an inverse relationship yeah there's like a formula there like how much belly fat equals how the quality of the movie yeah yeah it's watch the first three and stop and you'll have a good time and just and just and just imagine that it only got better from there it doesn't but in here we get the voodoo gang and they're getting ready to you know they they stab this guy and they're getting ready to do whatever voodoo ceremony they are when of course our buddy mr. predator dreadlock shows up and starts wiping them out we get the spear we get the awesome net that drills into the walls and cuts you with the razor wire right um we get his little launching dagger thing yeah whatever it is that gets washed in the wall so we see that he has with these in the first movie though were these in the first movie no none of it yeah so it felt like an action figure is the shoulder cannon the shoulder can it felt like an action figure like we need to sell more props for the action figure like it it just felt like that but but of course he would have other weapons to trap people like if he you know he would have more than just what he had in the first film you know i'm sure they were planning on selling figures there is a reason why all the predators when you see them at the end all look differently not only is that neat but it allows you to sell 50 versions of the figure i mean that's why at one point they had like a scuba diving batman i don't remember the movies ever having a scuba diving batman but i know there was a figure of it because i had it when i was a kid so yes there is definitely that but it does make sense that hunting in a different situation and with different enemies who had far more there's far more of them with more guns more firepower yeah you're going to start to use tools to be able in your own weapons and why wouldn't it and then meet their futuristic like a spear opens up it closes down it fits within the movie it doesn't feel like he's just using a random spear it feels like technology right or he doesn't have like a mac 10 or something and you're like wait what's going on like well exactly yeah so i like the fact that it's not just the shoulder cannon that we're seeing something new but something that makes sense and it all feels like it and he is wearing basically netting on his body so it the weapons feel like they're of his design they don't feel weird and just inserted they feel like natural organic additions to the character so of course he has no problem dispensing all them wipes them all out but again as an echo back to the first film we have one survivor who happens to be the the woman who was in the middle of a intense amore session or whatever you want to call that and i don't i don't we don't see specifically that he spares her but you have to assume he knew she was there but she was of course a civilian or you know unarmed but it could be she was just hiding we really don't know and so we get everybody showing oh i think you see she like runs behind something or something like that or she's behind a pillar yeah yeah yeah and this is the idea again of oh there's a witness who who saw something but what she's saying doesn't make sense you know she's not speaking in spanish this time oh no she is that's right because uh it's such a call back yeah it's such a call back to the first film yeah it is and again we see danny kind of looking around and being like this doesn't add up this doesn't add up this is this is not normal so key shows up says hey get out danny notices that there's something that's caught in the ceiling ac unit so basically when they're leaving he says all right i'm going to meet you back here we're going to see what that thing is but don't go in alone we got to go in together so then we immediately get this scene which is the clip where now danny glover is back in in hot water again with the let's say lieutenant whatever he is robert dovey once again doing a completely different role in a completely different movie but it does lead to a wonderful scene where danny glover is going to confront keys about the fact that uh danny has been killed because this is post danny going in he recovers this little piece of metal gets killed by the predator which again reminds me a lot of like the billy scene it's not quite the same but it's the one guy who seems to know something's going on and one-on-one and gets slaughtered um and then we get this scene where danny glover is being chewed out and about danny danny lieutenant michael r harrigan violence prone obsessive compulsive personality a history of excessive physical force throughout his 18 years as a los angeles police officer also responsible for the destruction of 11 patrol cars what about 10 commendations for valor and the best felony arrest record in the history of this department that in my intervention on your behalf of the only reasons you still have a job harrigan if it were up to the chief to charge you with detective archer let his death and suspend you as it is he left in my hands now this john wane attitude flake with this regard for policy is going to end now there's no one under my command is going to impede the progress of this federal task force headed by agent keys no one that's it it's missed mike you're too close to the stay out of it it's a police matter now they can't keep the department out of it no we'll find danny's killer captain danny and i came up together 15 years on the fucking street whoever killed me is going to pay i'm going to finish [Music] shit in i don't give a fucker who really are what you want with this asshole because not with personal and he's a dead man the concept of what you're dealing with is way over your head i'm warning you don't know what you're dealing with and i'm warning you stay the fuck out my way all right so multiple things the Robert dovey basically i love the fact that this is dovey's gone after this this is his last scene in the movie yeah we never see him again this is never seen again none of this has any impact on anything yeah and he literally the way he ends his little speech sounds like okay we've ended the mandatory similar he's like that's it dismissed i mean it is almost him saying okay we've gotten this out of the way my role in this movie is over painting i'm leaving and he just takes off then we get the essential uh now it's personal boss and i don't know this time it's personal thing and you know we came up on the street i'm going to find out and he confronts keys and we get a variation on max whole i don't give a shit who you are back in the world you give away our position one more time and i'll bleed you out here which also by the way Gary Busey in point break has this same scene with Ted McGinley jr where he punches him like i'm like this is such like i don't know what was going on in the 90s everyone had a boss they didn't like and no one could follow the rules i don't know what was going on you're losing cannon you had a control which is before hr existed i guess like people just basically like every employee did what they want and bosses were just like upset about it like that was the 90s i guess i don't know yeah i don't know either but it's it's something because like you said every movie had it and i do love the fact and in the video you'll see it where Danny Glover backs off and does this motion with his hands like he's gonna smack you heard it in the clip there's a smacking sound yeah he basically backs up goes like that to the air it's such a great i i dearly hope but that wasn't in the script and Danny Glover just did it to emphasize how the respect and care he had about what was going on because it is a wonderful little just physical thing that is like bitch don't come there me or you're dead right great and so did you notice to the music once again that was the donna da da donum which is the military theme so and the the other kind of heat theme we were talking about earlier that was sort of dovetailing that scene that's more the predator theme because it's like less rhythmic and it's a little bit more like oh what's what's kind of going on so i in the first movie they did a great job of that and they're doing it here once again like showing like when it's your main character kind of moving and doing action you have this really rhythmic very you know sort of accurate rhythm and then with you know the predator it's like a little bit more like wait what's going on the the rhythms are a little less on beat and it's a little more like amorphic well primarily because the predator too is i'd have been to say predator too sorry that was just an accident but the predator is there's no threat to him and so everything is more laid back there is this idea that his music is a little looser because there's never a point where he is not injured in any meaningful way until what in the third act he doesn't actually get hurt in any real way yeah until the slaughterhouse scene is where he actually shot a bunch of both films in both films though too because it's not until later that he actually gets mortally wounded where he has to go and like you know that's the whole like if it bleeds we can kill it you know that that whole you know one liner and one thing uh so after this we have a scene where basically the team which is danny glover uh mca instead of having to say her name the whole time so mca and bill packs the meetup and he says okay i'm going to go talk to king willy because king willy and i have the same problem this guy is killing all of our people so if i offer him help then maybe you know he'll give me some information because at this point danny is now dead danny the one who was seeing that there was more going on but as far as we can tell danny glover still doesn't really know and and kesus correctly says you don't know what you're dealing with well at this point danny glover doesn't he knows somebody's doing this and it's clearly somebody with ability and power but he doesn't know it's nailing like that this is not happening and it's but it's clearly not one of the gangs it's not either of the gangs you know that are have done probably horrible things they've probably seen horrible murder scenes where they've cut people up and stuff but not not to this degree yeah because even in the earlier scenes when they say oh this must have been the jamaicans and the clumbians nobody says well no this is too brutal they don't say that they just said well then why did they leave the drugs why did they not do this there's certain things that give away that it doesn't make sense yeah but none of them are no they wouldn't skin people no clearly they would skin people they just wouldn't then leave their boss hanging upside down that's the difference right so again there's little clues that it's not quite what they're used to but at the same time it's not the brutality that's throwing them off it's little things that don't make like business sense right which again is a subtle background reminder yes things are really bad here because they don't blink at skin bodies hanging from ceiling what they don't understand is why the guy they were torturing is still here why wouldn't they have taken the body with them well even in that first scene with danny where he was talking about how would they physically get that guy up there it would have taken a team of people to string somebody up that high you know and that's they play with that in the first movie too they're like there must be this rogue other platoon of soldiers that strung these guys up so we've got to be careful out here because there must be another platoon that we missed out here in the jungle yeah and again billy is the one who says yeah but they were firing in all directions there's no other tracks but uh Schwartz Nager's first think is oh they were ambushed somebody jumped them in the jungle because these guys are really good if they got ambushed then somebody got to drop on them and billy's the one who's like i'm not seeing signs of that that doesn't make any sense so yeah i i do like the parallels i think they're done the correct way for the most part so then we get what is probably one of the best this is by the way by the way this is where i start to have questions about this film the the the king willy scene i'm like okay okay okay king willy the king willy scene is the the very essence of two different ways a scene can be both amazingly weirdly bad and excellent because the meeting with king willy is hilarious i have the clip the accent is a masterpiece it is so bizarre and incorrect and ill-fitting and wavering that it it is it is entrancing there's a wonderful word that i learned from the west wing and sorsal this accent is an insourcing thing because you just sit there and you almost become dazed yeah and you just kind of and you wish you could hear this person do a whole movie in this accent because he might be an alien too maybe that's why the predator is fixating on him because he's also an alien well and notice he also has so there's the weird thing that the predator has dreads and so do the black characters in the movie there's this uh krit uh siskel uh or with siskel or ebert one of them they wrote during the time they wrote that they thought the actual predator costume was subtle racism that it was it was trying to evoke uh like a like a black character or something like that and i don't know i feel like that's very thin but um yeah there was this weird like you you say like maybe king willy is like somehow in in league with the predator or nose of them or yeah on saying is i could believe he was an alien based on this performance it's great and then it's just a bad actor it's one of the it's not terrible but then after that we have one of the best effects sequences that the whole movie has where the predator king kills king willy we have a great transition from a scream to a severed like the part after the meeting is among the best of any of the of even the first movie as far as the effects work i've watched uh videos of people who do effects talking about how they did those footsteps is really impressive in the way that the the scene where he you see him in the reflection as his camouflage but like it's very well directed after the king willy meeting yeah today it's old hat because we're like oh we can you know we see that in the best in in you know AAA video games i mean we see you know we see water reflection you know with ray tracing and all that but yeah in the you know early 90s i mean that's you know that's that's a challenge and following this scene it's all the more impressive because you have this terrible act let's let's just listen to it because let's hear what's right here you're gonna get almost two minutes of just magnificent dialogue so please enjoy there's a you are talk to me there's a you are for me favors tell me why babylon mr policeman i want some information information about the one that's doing all the killing i uh he killed your people now man i think you know who he is i want him i don't know who he is but i know who he is the odors i when he talked about the estimate word you see it's always the same there's no stopping what can't be stopped no killing what can't be killed hey make sense man this thing that's killing your people in mind it's from the odors i can feel him all around you can't see the eyes of the demon until him come calling this is dread man truly great nothing else for you here policeman time to go now i must give credit to danny glover who somehow kept his composure him acting seriously against this right and he's like hey man make sense no i feel like i want to take that clip i want to take that clip and use it for things like hey man make sense it really it really is and if you're watching the video you'll see it it really is a stand out performance because this is the only scene we have of king willy he's killed very shortly after but you hear a lot you've heard a lot about him and you heard what a like how theory is and like you know even by the cartel is like a you know kind of in fear of him he's this mythical figure so he had to be larger than life so did he have to be a borderline hate crime i don't know but he is it's a little over the top if the Babylon like why are you mentioning Babylon that's the best part but but you know what this is the thing this is and this is we were talking about this before we started recording about this idea that you can be good or you can be bad but you can't be anything can be true right this this is not forgettable no this is not a halfway thing where i'm like they didn't go far enough that's that's not for sure no and and it really is and this is at 45 minutes this is dead center of the film see and by the way up to this point i'm like enjoying everything that's happening i'm like oh the flow is good we have a couple scenes with uh morn downy jr and then you know there's a little back and forth i'm like oh this is the classic like you know he's got to do it his own way that type of thing uh Bill Paxton brings some really you know great comedic relief as well as some you know just 90s misogyny uh but uh so you're like this all works this all fits together right yeah it is up until i would say i was going to say the graveyard scene but the subway scene is good so it's probably post subway scene but the graveyard scene is your first indicator that uh oh well we're getting on some rocky ground we're going to be you know but but uh you did mention the morn downy jr or uh yeah morn downy jr scene and so after king willy's kill we do get a another beautiful morn downy jr hardcore segment which i'll play here because i just love hearing this guy's voice this is tony pope live from l.a. send me a fear the psycho vigilante killer continues his daily diet for murder bodies strung out bodies with the skins ripped off the hearts torn from the cadavers and just recently king willy the drug lord the vicious drug lord found in an alley just around the corner with his head cut off and his spinal column torn from the body of fitting demise to the prince of powder that that is a beautiful little segment it's great the prince of powder and that's not that's not reporting like that's the thing like i love how like they're like that is sensationalized just entertainment shock you know uh journalism i guess yeah it feels dirty saying that word with it but yeah and that's just great that's over the top and it's reminiscent of robocop where it's like the idea that you know in robocop the uh the commentators are a little bit more like flippant like oh those environmentalists they always do worry about the environment right um but in here it's just like man this guy's just like making a buck off of all the insanity in the war zone that is l.a. but it's great because it fits with this movie in a way where it's it is over the top and exaggerated and basically i think they're what they're doing is they're doing a current affair i think this is what it's supposed to be which i think is below riley started on that if i remember that was his whole show before he got his own thing so you can see the template and it does make sense it does add this kind of comedic element to things but after that is where we get this scene where uh denny glover goes to visit billy's grave and they play the music where mac is talking to jesse vincer when he's laid out the hero theme the the lone trumpet the lone trumpet it is it's yes it's it's great use of the music it's a shame that the scene is nowhere near as good as that because this is where the train starts rocking on tracks a bit because the scene of visiting danny is fine but then we see that the predator is there because and this is one thing i think the movie somewhat fails at but it it works and it doesn't which is to establish that danny glover is the super cop because if there's a point where they're like no no he's after you you are the lion that's what you'll hear keys talk about you're the lion and don't be wrong danny glover is shooting everybody in sight he did driving a car where he was leaning up the side to rescue people he's doing heroic things but he's not short snake or he's not a gigantic hulk of a man so i don't know the insubordination and reckless driving make you a threat from the predator but i guess in l_a_ it does which i think it's just a little terrifying thought like you know every other slash movie like michael myers is like you know attacking young women you know what i mean uh you know i think that has to do with he was he wasn't babysat properly he was a child right but but like so instead the the predator's not going after like week or you know traditionally weak people he's good he wants the alpha he wants the lion he wants the big the big prize uh and i don't want to give anything away about what he does with these prizes but um yeah he wants he wants the trophy and like i said i don't really mind it i just think they jump from it's just so happens these cops are running into him to suddenly no no now he's fixated on danny glover right and it it sort of works but it also could have used maybe a little more setup i don't i don't mind there was no there was no like seeing where all of a sudden now it became personal for the predator or like the predator realized now it's time to go after you know danny glover like there was there there wasn't that strong connection so all of a sudden now he's just at the cemetery there should have been or maybe it would have been good if there was a scene where he ran into the predator and wounded him and so he realized oh the first person l.a. who's wounded me well now i have to get you absolutely but whatever like i said it's not like it heard anything that came before the movie was jumping along and by the way with this scene so far everything that happens in this scene i anything you've mentioned so far i don't have any problems with i think the music is beautiful he's is uh you know meeting uh meeting or paying tribute to reuben blades character and the predator is there don't have a problem with any of that yeah and that's okay uh then we get a child however however what you're about to mention then we have a small child and i i always forget this scene because it's so stupid i i always forget about the fact that the kid is even there but then you hear this kind of this background noise of something oh mommy i'm gonna run around and play or whatever you're like what is this oh and then the kid goes up to the predator who is just standing there camouflage yeah hands and says would you like some candy and then he internalizes that vocal so that he can be like lots of candy wants some candy and then he just that's just over with the kid survives of course the predator is gone and then by the way is that the same kid is that the same kid from like dream warriors or something like one of the other nightmare in elm street movies i feel like there's like a son because yeah i think i had my head like this when it was happening so i don't know i actually saw the kid all that now i was i was stupid you were embarrassed for the for the production at that point i remember this scene happened yeah it was like oh see by the way just so no once again though loving the movie up to this point and just being like yeah there's a there's some weird things or whatever there's some 90s things there's some there's some racist thing there's some misogynistic things but i'm like this is just like a really nice world it's really well put together however then i was like oh okay there there were some there were some issues with this movie and then we see that he's hung Danny's necklace on a tree also that part i don't mind it's a sign it's like hey i was here yeah okay but then we get this dramatic thing where Danny Glover is whipping his gun around there that's one place where they maybe overuse the music where it's very very over the top yeah and then he says Danny's necklace okay we're watching the movie we know it's he was he was touching it the whole movie he's going like this like he's playing the instrument so yeah we know what this thing is we don't need the it's an adr line probably a studio head said hey you need to remind people i mean it just feels like it was inserted later because it's not he don't see him say yeah and that exact came into the came into the movie like an hour in or whatever like what is that i don't know what that is oh we are watching it where the guy looked like he was you know trying to play the flute on his chest yeah that's his necklace thanks yeah so we get that again not the best scene uh but but a mix of things still some good and bad that's okay it's fine and then we cut the concept though i like the concept because that's a throwback to the first movie where the predator is analyzing billy's laugh right where he like analyzes records it and then plays it back to in kind of a horror uh in a really horrific way in the first film so i was like okay well we're calling back to that this idea that you know the predator is able to not only use visual camouflage but also use sort of speech and sound to catch his prey so cool concepts and yeah but i think you didn't need the kid for it you could have had where uh denny glover said something and the predator recorded it to use later right like i'm gonna get him i'm gonna yeah i'm sure for this shed maybe not that but and and the necklace hanging i don't mind i think it's just the thing where he's swinging the gun around and it's whipping the camera it just feels out of place in yeah very mtv editing so it's not that the scene is a train wreck there's just some bad decisions in it but sure overall it's fine i i i didn't like the scene could have been cut out the scene could have been cut out it could have been or could have just stopped with him visiting the grave and saying i'm gonna get him like that's fine i i'm not a problem with it because i do like that music so it's it's a good use of the music and it's a nice scene uh and it does re it reinforces his thing where it's like well now it's personal yeah okay uh this is a reminder this is what i'm doing i'm fine with that it's just it went on too long then we get the subway scene which does make you kind of immediately forget the other one because the subway scene is great and so the subway scene is fantastic the only problem is if you're prone to seizures or you have epilepsy or anything you probably shouldn't watch it because wow the strobe lighting is not subtle it is all strobe light after a certain point but we start off got it's weird though because i think they were trying to do this like make it scary so like up until this point i feel like the predator is not really scary and so this scene felt like they were trying to turn it now back into maybe a horror film where your vision vision is being obscured so the the anxiety kind of builds and you're like where is the predator where is it on the you know where is it on the train and they're trying to do that but yeah there's just a lot of flashing light though at the end of the day yeah so there's there's two parts of the scene so we get this opening that's almost comedic where you see uh MCA and Bill Paxton are on the train and they're there and we see some tough some 90s tough some punk guys that are harassing a woman and then they go to uh a dweeb that is sitting down with a briefcase and they're like oh they've pulled a knife on them so the guy takes out a gun and he's like i'll shoot i'll shoot and then one of the punks pulls out a gun and then suddenly a bunch of other people pull out guns and then the whole train is just guns yeah which i loved i actually loved this camp i thought that was i thought that was great that called me back to the first robocop the kind of really campy sort of everybody has a gun like you know and and yeah in la in the way it was tracking la everyone would have had a gun in at that time you know by 97 you think of la story where they're like oh holy shit it's open cease not the la freeway and everybody's just shooting i mean this is is a 90s la thing where it was just like la is crime city right and so yeah i don't mind it but then yeah they they then shift immediately to like you said there's the strobe lights and the predator just randomly crashes i mean i do like the scene where he's climbing on the top that felt like aliens to me where he's climbing but it i don't know why he's there he just decided to go after the other two cops that were with Danny Glover whatever he was just at the you know what's the traffic like though because he was just at the the cemetery so i don't know how how how long of a drive is it from the actual cemetery to uh to the uh the the reported la subway system i mean that would you know well i suppose if you're it's kind of like if you have a motorcycle and traffic if you're going across rooftops i guess you make better time in LA so that's really the key if people are stuck in traffic go across rooftops you'll be much better you have to get good at jumping is that is that assuming he's traveling that way on foot like through the through the the building buildings the only reason i make the assumption is we do see him go up to escape to the roof when he's with Danny Glover that's right and in the original movie he was traveling in the treetops so if you just kind of yeah extend that out the treetops in LA are rooftops so okay i don't know how else he does it i mean so so we would have to ask somebody who lives in LA what the roof rooftop commute time is from uh from yeah from the feel free to comment in the comments below uh or if we got this wrong if we got this wrong we got a we got a lot of things wrong this whole thing is wrong this this lighting situation i have is wrong but uh so yeah so he's in the subway crashes through the roof and that's when we then suddenly get the strobe effect it's it's an immediate 180 to the comedic everybody's got guns thing and so i do i think it right if the idea was let's make it horrific and there is a horror element to it i just think it goes on a little too long like there's just a lot of it which again it's not a joke that certain people probably can't watch this part of the movie because i could see it inducing seizures it is so glaring and just constant that i know people who get headaches from that so it probably would even if you don't have a seizure you'll get a headache from it so i guess warning lots of strobe lighting um it's effective i don't mind it but i think at some point there could have been the thing where the emergency light comes on and it's low light and he's still scary i mean still he's still chopping people up and coming forward and so what happens is essentially we have our cops split mca takes the people to try to get off the train and bill paks to the size to confront the predator now the first time i watched this i thought he would survive because he just seems even though he's a complete asshole he does seem like the likable guy who maybe he gets cut up and he comes out he's bleeding or whatever he starts off as an asshole and they they spend that whole first hour kind of he becomes part of the team and even at that point him in um uh cantrell uh character they're they're starting to get along and they they start to they're starting to have this like copacetic sort of relationship where it's like okay he's not going to be a total misogynistic asshole and she's going to soften up a little bit like so like they spent all that time kind of developing that character um to kind of just have him get mashed up in the in the subway i mean it's a good scene because it is a major character dying so it does establish the stakes which i think after danny you thought maybe danny would be the only one who died that's typical movies like this like one main character dies the others somewhat survive although the first movie throws all that shit out because everybody but Schwarzenegger and the woman died so it's not like the the template isn't there for no no no more than one major character can die but a movie like this doesn't feel as serious for a lot of it so you could be forgiven for thinking okay danny died somehow Bill Paxton will make it out he'll manage to distract him and throw himself out the window and the train will keep going but no annihilated he basically but he shoots him at least 20 times at point blank range now i'm they build up Bill Paxton as a great cop so i'm assuming if they've made it where he'd never shot his gun and he got nervous like national lamprooms little loaded weapon one where he's twitching okay maybe but he's firing we see the camera angle he's firing right at him how did he miss it that part is one of the ones where you go hold on maybe there's a good chance predator armor that we don't know about i don't know you know sure apparently it doesn't work against shotguns but we'll get to that so apparently he's got armor against nine millimeter fine yes so whatever all around smaller smaller caliber smaller caliber no problem that skin density bounces right off so Bill Paxton gets wiped out a bunch of other people who are armed i do like the fact that they do at points you have danny glover starting to sort of put things together uh the graveyard scene he looks at trophies in the window and he kind of looks at it for a minute and it's like he's starting to piece it together which i like better than him just realizing it as oh light bulb goes on he's a hunter and he wants trophies no they they kind of or which i think is nice or keys could have just basically it told him everything you know because we're coming up onto the scene where we kind of like reveal what the hell keens is a keys is doing um but like it could have just been all from that where like everything where because you know danny's a good detective he's already kind of sort of putting the pieces together and there are these little things like the necklace why did he have the necklace why would he keep the necklace and serial killers take trophy so even within police work there would be things that might start lining up but i like the fact that they don't make he doesn't say it to the window he says he's collecting trophies because that's what a stupid movie would do right i mean that's instead you just kind of see him looking at it and he's like you could see the gears turning yep i like that that's there is a lot of good work in this as far even in the parts that are lesser it's still i think that's the like i said the even with danny glover he's a great actor and eruban blades is a great actor uh maria conchita and lonzo was in many films after this even more like kind of serious films so they got really you know bill paxon's great too i mean because these are actors that can act by speaking or just their facial expressions their eyes um so um that's what i meant like it was almost bigger budget than the first film in a way because they weren't just getting these like dudes who could be in an action movie they were casting like you know actors who can you know kind of portray roles not just through the script but also through you know just physical action and expression and we haven't mentioned this yet which we should i should have said this right off the top but the idea of it being danny glover is the lead i really like because they could have just gone with another muscle bound even though i made the comment that why would the the printer immediately fixate on him at the same time danny glover at no point seems like he's not in control and he's not the dominant force in the room he's great i remember that was a thing i remember that was a thing i remember people were like why isn't source and egg are in this one and why is it and i mean it was the early 90s so they're like why why is it danny glover and it might have been like why is it a black guy but um i think he already was known to be an action star because of the lethal weapon films so i think it wasn't so much that like why is it a black guy but like oh it's going to be murdock so then like what is this movie going to be is this going to be the thriller horror movie of the first film or is this going to be like lethal weapon part you know three or whichever one they were on at that point i think maybe only two had come out at that point but you know what i mean so like i think people were just like just like today when we're like wait who did they cast in that role oh that's the you know that that actor is going to be horrible in that role and sometimes we're right sometimes we're like it's going to be a different type of movie and other times we're you know like pleasantly surprised well i brought up many times my stupid comment of oh huge jackman is Wolverine there's a fucking dumb idea right and sure enough might as well just punch myself in the face because the moron was me in the room when i said that he was great so yeah it's somebody tried to get me to watch Tenant and i would not watch it because Robert Patterson was in it and i was like i'm not gonna watch that i don't need to see the twilight guy and sure enough i finally got around to watching that film that wonderful Christopher Nolan film and i was like dude he was he was amazing in that he was like he was the great like kind of buddy character and i was like fantastic fantastic acting so that was a case where i'm like wait this guy the twilight guy is gonna be in a serious Christopher Nolan movie like what's how's that gonna work and well people said the same thing for the batman and i think the batman is top three if not top two of batman films i've seen i mean it was spectacular and he was great in it so yeah this is he was great but for the time he was more like emo batman i liked i liked his he was but that that was great yeah awesome car yeah uh so um but you can see where people i mean i understand that reaction that that it would seem because it is a big difference from Schwarzenegger in terms but what what you do get and let's just be objective about it is you get a better actor i mean i love Schwarzenegger yeah yeah but he's not offensive yeah but he's not offensive but he's not offensive because like grand canyon or a grand canyon is a movie he's in which is just fantastic um oh he spitted a bunch of things that are really really i mean he's done theater work he's a serious actor and i mean you'd have to be to do the king willy scene and not just say no i quit i quit make sense man make sense man make sense man act better i feel like when he's saying that he's like act better man act but yeah it's is that a serious thing that they just left in right in the guy what what are you doing make sense man and they just were like no that fits we'll leave it like good we'll keep that thanks danny yeah that's that's even in uh yeah so we have the subway scene which also includes a a wonderful little bit where the predator catches up with mca and after having skinned half a train worth of people we find out that for all his murderous intent there's one characterless movie who's standing up for old style family values because when he sees that she's pregnant he says no pro life and let's her go so the big game hunter he is the big game hunter the guy who goes and kills the elephant i feel like it's the same type of guy yeah he's like pro life and all that yeah yeah same thing it's it is almost comedic yeah but again this is one of those things we sit there and go well he's not all bad he's not going to go no it's this weird thing where it's like michael meyers is a machine like you said like a lot of these other you know horror villains or monsters they just kill indiscriminately and um there's not there's this other agenda and that makes it like kind of intriguing and like you said likable but then maybe maybe even more horrifying because you're just like this is like a game this you know he's just like playing with his food like yeah well it what it does is uh the the terror of like the alien the xenomorph is that it is just raw instinct there is no reasoning right that there is no it doesn't care it's not going to you do whatever you want it's going to just chew right through you and it doesn't matter whereas the predator is the other side of that where it's like well this is this is essentially a Hannibal Lecter type of character where i don't need to know everything of the mentality i don't need to know all the rules i understand enough because there's a basic framework and what that tells you more than anything is this is not a creature that acts i mean we never up until the point where god i mean there's only a few instances where he even acts out of anger most of the time he's very calculated i know how to deal with this i have the tools i've got the talent we'll take care of it and there isn't a moment where it loses control until really he gets his hand cut off which is going to be coming soon and then he starts to kind of get a little angry and uh then he starts spouting the one-liers a little bit too much for my taste but the intelligent lethal predator is as scary as the alien because you can't reason with the alien but this thing's logic is all its own and it's eight feet tall and will just knock you right out and has blades longer than your arm and so that is an equal type of scary except it is what is this is what's going on in the brain and they do keep enough of an alien that yeah you understand the basics but you also really don't know what's going through this thing's head and so you can't really predict it except yeah it won't kill pregnant women so okay you know it's got some values i think it goes back to you know the the villains in in the superheroes and in the comics um you know there's always like the villain who uses his mind and is like the lex luther type character and then there's the villain who is just a beast of a burden i mean like going back to x-men and wolverine i mean you have magneto versus you know um some of the other villains that are just pure there to just like fight the main characters so i feel like predator is both right there's like this like sentient kind of plan mission going on but he's also pretty badass and pretty pretty dangerous yeah so after the subway scene we now have a uh danny glevver is tracking him and this is where we see him going uh you know bouncing around the city and eventually where they end up is in the slaughterhouse district and we've heard at points that bill paxon says at one point that when he was surveilling keys he lost him in the slaughterhouse area um and so when we wind up back here then uh there's a scene where he's so the predators going across the rooftops because that's the tree tops parale we've just we've established that as fact capital effect and so he's going across the tree tops of l.a. and danny glevver is following him in a car which is somewhat comedic to me but i also kind of like the fact the printer keeps looking down and just sees this guy and is beat up you know buick coming after him or whatever and he's just like i see you motherfucker i know you're up there and he's just driving in a car and you know the the unreality of being able to track anything through l.a. without running into a roadblock or traffic or like hitting a person or something like yeah ridiculous so he finally gets to a point where he uh is coming into a parking lot at the slaughterhouse and keys men t-bone him in a way that would almost surely kill him because that's a heavy impact it's just like and he wasn't wearing a seat belt i checked he was not wearing a seat belt like he's going for the windshield yeah it's ridiculous and the fact that that's how they stopped him as opposed to just pulling in front of him and making him slam on the brakes or like raising your hand like slow down or something like that or something but no we get this violent crash where they then drag him out and bring him in to meet up with keys and i do like the fact that we see keys is kind of getting gear on and adam bollwood comes up and says hey the the cost back he's like fuck really this guy again and then we get basically the exposition scene where keys just unloads everything and that's the clip where we're going to find out the whole backstory why they're here and also their brilliant plan that is foolproof on how they're going to catch them so oh he does refer to him as a predator which i both like because it's title check but it's done organically it doesn't feel like a don't don't don't don't line and they don't work in two like also or something like that no if only he's like wow it seems to be a predator as well also there was a predator as well a predator also he's not the only predator in this yeah so they at least had that restraint so let's get the predator that would have been frightening from gary bucie they're like gary that's not in the script i don't know why you're saying that he's just licking his teeth like those teeth yeah it would have been uh a whole different type of movie so let's let's play what we actually got sir the cop is back gary again don't you show up in the damnedest places come here i got something you might find interesting what is this how many times do i have to tell you you don't know what you're dealing with there's your killer wonderful in it pheromone signature left by his body these are sent molecules punch out three ten years ago one of his kind stalk and eliminated and elite special forces crew in central america there were two survivors they indicated that when trapped the creature activated a self-destruct device that destroyed enough rainforest to cover 300 city blocks a remarkable weaponry that's right lieutenant other world life forms huh a fucking alien evil jima kambodia a root drawn by heat in conflict he's on safari lions the tigers the bears oh my this is his jungle so why can't we see him defensive adaptations are astounding it's somehow able to bend light it's a perfect camouflage you admire the son of a bitch not what he does lieutenant for what he is for what he can give us a new era of scientific technology i've waited a lifetime for this and i'm not going to miss the chance mr garver we're picking up something on the pheromone scanners target one is on the roof it's taking this over two weeks to learn his patterns he comes here every two days the feed seems he has its ace for beef i am thinking vegetarian well we've prepared a little trap for this predator we are certain that this being can see in only one spectrum of light info red infrared he hunts by seeing our heat block the heat in his blind he suits insulate all body heat making the team invisible to the creature we flooded the packing house with radioactive dust we've also installed powerful ultraviolet lighting everywhere the dust adheres to his body making him visible hydrogen you're not going to kill his asshole you gonna freeze or we have to capture him he's moving finally grab a seat enjoy the show this is this okay so lots in here oh so much so much first off i don't know why danny glover suddenly is an idiot in this scene where he doesn't know what things mean infrared yes even i know infrared means heat like i understand that he's like he's like he could see our heat he has to explain multiple things otherworldly life form a fucking alien when did danny glover i mean i know he was just in the car exit so maybe he was kind of a little out of it but i'm pretty sure he's smarter than that i think it was supposed to be written that this is like this really intelligent scientist who's speaking in all this like scientific terminology so like danny is kind of there to like interpret for the audience like to put it in plain speak or something like that but like nothing about gary bucie gives me any type of like higher level degrees you know a crude sure enough well i'll go look on the wikipedia and be like he probably has a phd and something or whatever but well any might not in this scene not this character no not this character no but i do like on the screen it says oh wlf and honestly i've never noticed the letters before my last viewing and i'm like oh otherworldly life form yes that's really stupid but i adore it's great that it's on the screen why would it be on the screen yeah yeah yeah and we get a little bit of alien in here too where he's like you know where ash says you know i i admire its symmetry or whatever he says and then this whole this whole scene see we should do i'm sure somewhere on the internet there is a list of how many times aliens has been used in other films in popular culture i mean like it's pervasive you can go everywhere from like um uh what was the movie armageddon where like you know you know the jerry brockheimer film where they're like kind of doing something similar to the space marines that type of thing so this is like just a rip-off i feel like of aliens like the the scene where they go down in you know below the furnaces and um yeah i just uh but i was down for it all i was like this is great so the weird thing about this though it was referencing not only the first film predator film but it was also a call back to another science fiction film like the aliens films so just like wow man i'm like they're borrowing from the first film and now they're just borrowing from other films i mean almost to the point where the the actual uh the clip i should have pulled a clip because when he says you admire the son of a bitch Ripley says you admire it to ash his head you're not gonna kill this you want to take him back you want to take him back yeah yeah right that's that's the same scene with gorman where he's like you're gonna you're gonna uh Ripley's yelling at him like you were gonna manipulate different freezers on the way home to smuggle this back in so that it could be yeah you know the evil corporation yeah yeah oh burk yeah burk is still a line that we i still use that name to describe a corporate scumbag i'm like it's a burk over there yeah that movie really is career i think he was all in mad about you he would have a nice career after that but you're gonna have a great like you know do a bunch of feel good movies and like oh shitbag yeah i also i do like the fact like the plan as they laid out makes a ton of sense and would work except they hinge everything on this certainty that it can only see in one spectrum now look i'm not a tactical genius i'm not a military specialist i don't advise on special weapons attacked nothing i'm a nobody i'm a dumbass art student right even i would sit there and go wait he's wearing a helmet are we sure that the helmet doesn't have different modes because right played enough video games to know that headsets have different modes see the thing is gary bussy and the rest of the science team they had seen the first movie so they knew that he could only see in in one spectrum because they saw in the first movie when he takes the helmet off he doesn't quite see as well so they had actually seen the first film so that's that's the explanation for that so i also feel like it is an unintentional symmetry to robocop too where they have a terrible plan that they don't think through and they so they make a giant killing machine that's addicted to nuke and they don't think that might work out badly yeah let's put a cult leader addict in in in a robot that we can't stop in a super robot body yeah sounds like i was gonna put a giant gun on it that even can kill robocop let's uh it sounds good yeah i can't see any shortcomings there but by the way i love this scene i'm down for it i love this idea i love the call back to aliens and i love that like we finally get revealed like what gary bussy and his team's doing and i think this is a nice actually i like this in the film because at this point you're like where are we going with this because it's kind of like everybody's kind of dead now so i'm like oh is the movie gonna be over in 10 minutes like are we gonna have our showdown as it could be over and this kind of you know breathe some new life into the movie and like just another angle that there's actually this team that once again is you know kind of like Carl Weathers in the CIA there's you know they're they're trying to find out what this is there's some you know kind of uh they want to keep a sample take it home that type of thing or in this they want to harness the nuclear weapon or whatever the weapon they had uh you know from the first film also a nice little bit of uh unintentional symmetry robo cop two which starts off with a nuclear explosion in the amazon and he references the fact that the predator detonated himself in the rainforest which was a mushroom cloud so again right i don't know that this was planned but it's a beautiful little bit of mirroring so yeah i have no problem with the scene i i'm not i'm not trying to bring real world logic into predator yeah yeah but and those things by the way those things i can forgive like i can forgive like just logic that's maybe we're having a good time right it's you know the accents you know the king willy accent less less forgivable less forgivable well i gotta tell you if that accent wasn't in there i don't know that i'd like king willy as much i have to say i do adore that accent because it is so bad yeah how else would you have played it i don't know i guess he could have you know yeah yeah because i i doubt you could find any actors who had a realistic accent i just don't think they exist so somebody would have to make it up i i don't think there are any actors who have any type of accent they were going for it was weird because i think so steven hopkins is he's jamaican born british australian director so i think he's somewhat jamaican as well so i don't know what i kind of wonder was is it a jamaican accent through a british and australian accent what's the actor what's the actor's background is there any information on that actor is he'd only done this one movie i wonder i don't know let's see hold on i i would think his phone was ringing off the hook after this performance joe so i i would have to imagine this campy is is only filled this is the most authentic uh jamaican accent we never heard in our lives yeah they gave him the keys to the city yeah uh king willy was a bahamean born individual i don't know what a bahamean accent is he was in a lot of movies though holy shit he was in twin peaks firewalk with me he was in wild at heart he was in coming to america okay this guy's done stuff holy crap coming to america he is uh the character's name was the colonel the current oh so he's one of the soldiers so i don't know if he even talked about yeah yeah but this guy has extensive acting going back to 1961 yeah up through 2014 he well wait he died in 2007 oh because they released it in 2014 yeah so he was acting up until he died this is not a nobody so wow yeah that makes it even stranger this was not a a one-time only actor that knew the director had pictures of him and his wife doing something this was a real actor right yeah there had to be blackmail involved in some way well you would think based on an accent that's amazing i don't know say you know what maybe the guy was just collecting a paycheck he's like you want to make an accent all right here we go maybe this is how he landed the job in uh coming to america actually coming to america would have been before this film so maybe that's how he got this game maybe david linch saw this and said i loved your work yeah yeah uh well this would in a david linch film this would be great because this would be after like 20 minutes of just ordinary dialogue and then you would have this guy show up this guy would pop out of the corner and it would have stood all over him and beat the shovel and he'd be like oh babylon man and he would just go hot and we've been like david david linch genius david you're a genius you can do no wrong david unbelievable yet again pulls an above a performer performance out of a nope uh yeah by the way if there any jamaicans who can authenticate this accent please comment below please come and tell us what we got wrong tell us tell us all the things we've got but based on this movie please i hope there's got to be somebody whose whole life revolves around this movie please tell us all the things that we didn't understand it didn't get so now we get the big uh face-off scene between keysmen and the predator now i i did make a note because yeah this movie does have some really good direction in it there's at least three crane shots when you see the camera and this is prior to drones this is computer no a computer assist cgi and that stuff where the camera's moving from a very high perspective down and around in one steady shot and there's at least three of them there's one with danny early on there's one here i don't remember what the second one was but it is impressive that again this movie could have been a paycheck movie fine whatever it's it's the predator in l.a. who cares i mean the king will he see would if you only saw the king will he see these go oh yeah nobody cared well it's they're like it's going to make money regardless it's predator too and it's in l.a. and it's got some big actors in it like it'll it'll make its money back yeah and the and the concept when you hear it is great i mean yeah again we love this movie well we love this movie remember aliens three everybody wanted aliens three to be in a city like i remember that it was like okay aliens two was like the horror horror and then the second one was in space and was more action-y like could the third one be on earth and maybe go back to the horror kind of thing like yeah like pretty sure i am pretty sure there wasn't alien three teaser that was said it was going to be on earth and then they changed it because then they made it the prison planet as opposed to earth i believe there is a teaser trailer that exists that says on earth everyone can hear you scream which is free which is of course inverting the first line in space i want to hear you scream yeah it makes a lot of sense you would eventually want to have it on earth except that then it would be like the thing and they would just be everywhere so uh yeah we lose um so anyway now we get the big confrontation and we get a little bit more of aliens rip off here where there's a point where the alien is looking around and notices i mean if nothing else it sees particles in the air so it's not stupid again this thing is intelligent and it figures out this doesn't seem right so it starts shifting modes i like the fact that there's more than one before it finally gets the one that works right no cycles through no yeah no no and then it sees not them but they're light beams the actual ultraviolet beams and then it basically gets over them they all get into a circle because uh Danny Glover gets to the radio and says hey man uh it's going behind you it's flanking you like he recognizes right away no no it knows you're there and then we get the guy going it's right above you which is just one step off of it's it they're in the room yeah they're all around us yeah yeah yeah they're they're in it's that's in the room so it's like well give me a fix on it and then it drops down and wipes them out and we get my favorite weapon that exists in this entire thing which is the disk of death i love that yeah it's a cool yeah it's a really cool weapon and it gets used in a really fun way and even in the slaughterhouse with like the hanging meat and it just kind of slices through stuff um that was a fun addition and that of course wasn't in the in the first film no yeah the only thing yeah this all the tools in this movie are new if you've never seen the original only seen this one none of this stuff existed which is actually possible i don't say that it's a joke this was the movie i remember always being on the first one was not as much i'm sure because it cost more to license so i always saw the second one so if you've never seen the first one it's a much more stripped down version of the printer than this one where he does have a whole arsenal and we even get a we'll get later a much better look at how he heals himself so yeah he's in the scene he fires a missile that seems to blow Gary bc up and this is where we get what you might think is the final confrontation because now he and danny glover are kind of fighting back and forth danny glover is getting beaten up and danny glover takes out a shotgun and shoots him 12 times i mean multiple shotgun wounds at relatively close range where he is bleeding he's got perforations all over the place and then uh just as the predator kind of gets him and is about to kill him after delivering some terrible one-liners where he says you're one ugly and the predator says motherfucker which boy could i do without all of that but whatever that was where i crossed the line to okay i i don't need you to say the same line was that just like clip bait where like they could use that for the trailer like trailer bait or like trailer film so they could you know use that but with the swearing they couldn't use it i don't know remember like leviathan we're going back to like 90s like action or movies like leviathan like open wide mother like they just like that was a thing like even in jaws i mean say ah you know like like there's the that's gotta be that's like a whole trope right is like when there's that final showdown it's going to be where's the one liner it is but i i i don't think we need to see the predator talking up close that much i think that sort of takes away from the character right this is my biggest problem is this stuff with the movie i mean the third act is as rocket this is the worst of it is when the predator keeps doing one-liners i i that pulls me right out you know uh it just snaps me out i'm just reminded really scott talking about prometheus and talking about the ending of that and i always felt like the ending we were kind of shortchanged where there wasn't kind of like a fight between the sort of alien and uh the lead character at the end and he said there is a version out there where he had more of sort of a physical confrontation between them but he said it would just take away from it would just make the the alien or the engineer i guess you call that character it would just make him look too weak um that he even had to kind of tussle with um you know the the human character so i i feel like that that's what happens is like when you have the the when you have the uh predator doing one-liners it just turns into like like it just it diminishes the the scariest the authority of that it compromises the authority of the predator yeah because in the first movie the only things we really have other characters here him say is like he says the turnaround thing but he says it to nobody and it is creepy yeah and then he laps as billy which he has the thing sugars because Schwarzenegger can't figure out what's going on for a minute and he kind of goes oh that's a bomb and that's great when he's laughing yeah that is terrifying because it's really the only and he his face isn't moving much but we just see him kind of laughing and putting his head back because he thinks he's got him and that's great but this one he talks and so they were i think they were borrowing from the first film they're like what else can we have this what else can we have and say but yeah i also think they want to show off that they could articulate the face more and that's fine yeah i get it but it's hey at least he didn't say do you want some candy at least he but whatever it's still you know we get this uh keys then shows back up half blown up right and manages to distract the predator long enough for denny glover to escape um and then there's this whole fight sequence in an apartment building uh where denny glover is terrified of heights and manages to take the disc and cut off the predator's hand at about what like mid for arm or so which is great because that's we when the predator gets shot you don't really you know he's not dead i mean that's not a for this creature that is not a fatal wound you just know that oh mostly because the movie has like 15 minutes left so you know he's not dead plus it just wouldn't be the way you'd kill the predator but when his arm gets cut off that is a serious moment where this creature has been grievously wounded to the point where i wasn't sure if he'd grow the hand back when i first saw someone is he gonna grow it back well isn't that where the bomb control is too so doesn't that yes because he starts to activate it right so that actually neutralized that so you knew you weren't going to have an ending where basically there was going to be an explosion and you you know like it's not going to end the same way the other movie did at least yes you don't think it's going to end the same way so however i will give the predator like credit that he has the blades on one side and the bomb on the other that way if the arm gets taken off you have one or the other you don't well that's just makes that's practical sense i mean if you're going to hunt people for for sport like i mean you need to think about logistics like that like i mean you know listen the the predator is the embodiment of the two p's pro-life and practical that's what he is so we know that he's always prepared he's got a little prepper he's got a little prepper mixed in there too i mean we're this is a real uh three p's yeah because he does have his healing kit right and this is what we so after that he goes into the bathroom of an old couple uh which which is funny i do love the fact that the woman's like a uh a gary or oscar or whatever i think somebody's in the bathroom as he's and this is great when we see the tech that he's got where he spreads out this and we we he had done a healing thing in the first movie but it's very brief he basically just pulls a bullet out yeah uh it's very short and then he screams when he gets when he like puts something on his wound he screams so that's the first time we hear his roar and then the characters hear that in the jungle and it's really disconcerting yeah which in the first movie that is a very impressive sound effect it's great the way it's used it is terrifying it's very i mean it's like clears the whole jungle out type of thing so in this one he's got a little satellite dish and he basically breaks tile and he's smashing things and then he does some kind of superheating conductive whatever to it and it becomes a healing gel which another thing that who cares whatever there's an alien logic to it yeah so he scoops his little jello his blue glowing jello and he cauterizes his arm and yells he starts filling in the bullet holes and the woman gets a broom right there's this she's ready to go she's ready to go it's a police squad moment where you see the outside and then a broom comes into frame and then the printer just breaks the whole door down and i don't mind this at all this is great this is it is funny but it also makes sense i mean he's not going to just open the door he comes through the wall goes through the next wall and he's basically running and so then we have a another he's there's another chase scene where Danny Glover goes after him and when they finally end up is they're going down up what he called elevator shaft and they finally go down far enough that they land inside it just so happens that they end up going inside the alien ship and which is in the base kind of this building or it's like in the parking garage of this building or the sewer below the building yes yeah sure it was free parking it was free parking so yeah predator was like perfect yeah it was a nice empty space yeah so they parked it it fit like a glove it was right in that tunnel perfect so i love the inside of the predator ship absolutely it's got this nice patterning the walls are all lit up like it looks like an alien ship it also looks like it fits the predator it's beautifully designed and there's a fog floor the you know it's kind of nice you can't kind of see where the floor is yeah feels very obscured right yeah it is it feels very well designed for the creature so Danny Glover wanders in there and he looks over and there's a trophy case and inside the trophy case is an alien skull and this was put in there as just a funny gag and that then launched a whole series of things on its own comic books there were then movies and some of the comics are excellent don't judge the concept by the movies read some of the really good comics because the movies are terrible they're just they're they're not good in so many different ways but he gets inside a ship sees the the skulls which of course confirms the trophy idea right yeah and so then the predator comes out and he has slung the disc of death like a like a man purse yeah yeah it was what they call it whatever yeah like a little messenger bag yeah hanging off his side so I love the fact that he was like oh i'm gonna keep this yeah and and takes that and then starts to duel with the predator for a little bit where the predator is trying to use the blade and he's like arcing it off which is great I do like the kind of toe to toe thing it's not just punching and they do show yeah and they do show that like when one of those blades lands on the disc that Danny Glover has like it he's like thrown back so it's not like a true like you know he's actually standing his ground against the predator like which i think is good because they didn't diminish once again like you know how the predator is is probably about like ten feet tall is that what we're thinking like i'm just thinking something i mean he's yeah into ten feet i would say easily yeah i think the actor who played him is seven nine or something like that so he's these big but i do like the fact that the only reason he survives the blades is because he has metal that's the same right so the disc is how he's powering it off he doesn't have a pipe or you know some way that he just kind of defaults it off because any human material would be just destroyed so the fact he's got the disc allows an apparent and then there's a point where he now the only part is he gets him in the gut which seems like it should be a much more severe wound but whatever it brings Glover to his knees and this i like because this is kind of smart he basically looks like he's about to die so the predator comes over to deliver the killing blow at which point Danny Glover brings the blade up and gores him basically from i don't know crotch the neck or so is the basically driving the blade up and we get a couple scenes where he's driving it up driving it up and you know emphasis yes and then the predator falls back and dies well because that's the kill shot so we have to have like it can't just be like you know like nichdom or whatever like that and it's you know it's a paper cut or something yeah yeah the mortal mortal world mortal yeah it's just you know we get a lot of shots of day and Glover going ah you know that's fine uh it's for the ladies Joe it's for the ladies yeah yeah we'll suffer everybody we've had lots of misogyny let's just have a little bit of you know a sweaty glory man shots that's fine that's great it's for anybody in the audience who wants to enjoy it that's fantastic so i do like that after the predator collapses Danny Glover goes up to check him at the neck with the disc yeah and realizes no he's actually dead because that makes sense a lot of you know the typical thing in the movie is oh bad guy fell down oh he's gonna get back up and then the thing gets up so yeah Danny Glover's a cop he understands that he shoots somebody they're not necessarily instantly dead so he goes up and he checks him and he's dead at which point then a bunch of other predators materialized inside the ship and we get this great moment where where Glover drops the disc he goes all right who's next yeah it's such a great moment because it's it's both utterly just defeatist and pointless and yet it's so in character i love the idea that he says that even though you could tell he's like i'm dead yeah no yeah it's all over he's like all right who's next and so we see all these different predator designs different helmets different like skin patterning yeah which i love i think it's great that we see all the variety that they all look the same i mean they basically look the same but they have personalities and distinct looks which i think is fantastic for just a little bit at the end yeah i love this idea that it's like oh no this is like a whole group of people and like i i don't know this is like this is a weekend where the guys are getting crazy in the galaxy and doing some hunting together and um so i love this idea that there's all different types of them and and i love it too that it's just like he just defeated this thing that basically killed everybody knows and now here there's 12 more of them or you know eight more of them all standing there uh the one thing i did not like was the the CGI at this point because the CGI at this point was really bad and um there's a few other points in the in the movie where we're dealing with the the chameleon um you know effect and uh it kind of takes me out of the movie a little bit which i think they did such a wonderful job in the first film of limiting the chameleon stuff so that when we were seeing the predator we were seeing it him as a you know a practical effector as a you know a costume um which i think made him more terrifying so just to see them all like kind of CGI it just i don't know i i i have a hard time believing even at the time it looks good but i i you know this was like what early 90s so we talked about this with robo cop too i i mean for me watching it now 30 years later um it takes me out it takes me out of the scene but i don't know i don't want to start getting into where we go and like re uh you know re-effect every old movie till it you know uh till it's up to uh CGI standards but um that was that was that was a that was a bummer for me but i love the concept i love the idea that this is not just one predator on one ship it's you know a group of predators and somehow this is like a whole society yeah and and what i do what i'm glad about is that this movie was done when it was because today and they in fact did this with some of the later prayer movies where he's purely CGI so yes that the matting and that type of stuff it's it's and also they're doing fog and they're trying to blend them the fog and you can see the lines so clearly where they're you know the fog it's not good it's very glaring it's very noticeable but all the practical stuff still like the makeup work excellent all that is fantastic and today a lot of that would probably be CGI purely so it might look better but it would also look faker so i'm glad at least we have that that part still holds up but yeah the the ending does show off the limitations of the time and the effects pretty glaringly but like you said to that point in a more current movie they would have maybe done the scene completely CGI and that's for me that's the matrix reloaded in those scenes where they decided to just do everything CGI and you know these incredible mind-bending scenes from the first film where it was all sort of practical and some effects they now it was just really kind of core computer graphics and that killed matrix reloaded for me but there's so many great scenes in that anyways but we're not here to talk about that but i always think about that when people are like what what movie to you what suffered from CGI and there was that transition where they went from practical to have practical half you know stop motion you know green screen blue screen and then they there was a period when they went a hundred percent CGI and that was that was that was a dark time as well so it was you know and this is this this is much like music when it's done for emphasis and to to finish something that may not have been finished or to underscore something that CG is great i mean still one of the best if not the best demonstration of how CGI should be applied is Jurassic Park still yeah because up close animatronics so it's real it has weight it has effect for the scenes where it's not practical you can't tell because they shot it right they used it where it needed to be and no more than that and it is outside of one or two scenes which are out in the daylight where you can kind of tell that their CG dinosaurs all the night stuff seamless seamless you know it doesn't make any you know it doesn't make sense to me is because the way it was working those weren't like CGI predators so they had to use they had to have predators in costumes right yeah so why couldn't they just have had all the predators on the set on the same day just standing there like i i mean now you have Danny Glover so you have your lead actor in that scene too right so like when is he available and what does it take like two days for them to put everybody in costume and makeup and all that so maybe it's just like i i feel like the CGI was a a financial decision and it wasn't something because like there's no way we can have 12 predators standing in a room that's impossible you know like sometimes there's impossible shots where you're like we just can't have somebody doing that it's like too dangerous or something like that this seems like it could have just been done with a practical effect i actually have the video i want to look at something because i'm curious about one element now that you say that i didn't pay attention to it at the time but where okay here's where he's in the room so there is i'm just watching it no okay so i would agree with everything you said except that if you watch the movie yeah he is in a scene with like seven other predators they could have done it he he's in there where they're not being CG they're standing there there's no effect so no they made this this and i think what it is honestly watching it because i thought you didn't need to do this they wanted to have the thing where they all morph back into the camouflage why what did that add they could have just literally walked out of the room they're still intimidating and they could have just left the one leader there and they could have just walked out into the fog and just put more fog it's like they're fading into the fog it would have been just as effective the camouflage doesn't suddenly make the scene scarier it's just that yes they wanted to show the effect off except they showed it off badly yeah i guess right so that is kind of frightening though that all of a sudden now like 12 predators just like disappeared so you're just like where those guys go and like it's like you know like are they just gonna all head out to the city now for night out out on the town like in camo but well that would be yeah yeah predators of play there's your favorite place there's you go there's there's predators the predator three we all want it yeah that's the one we really want it was drunk predators just driving like you know just people the predators gone wild predators gone wild yeah so and then we get the final shot which is then also echoed far later in the wonderful prey movie where we see this gun that the leader gives to Danny Glover is basically like his trophy because he beat one i mean Arnold's blew himself up and there were no others so no trophy for him except for you know radiation burns uh but this because Danny Glover defeated him and there were others there to witness it i guess and he didn't blow himself up he was able actually to kill him because again the first one killed himself so i don't know if that really counts for Arnold i don't know if that's really a kill or if that's a i give myself up like a torpedo myself to avoid a deathmatch situation so he gets a gun and then they replicate the bomb going off where he's running away from the engines but now it's just the engine yeah the engine so yeah yeah and then we get a mirroring of the very end where he comes out and he's covered in ash and he's and he looks up and there's a helicopter for no reason because the guy comes out he says oh we were so close and then gets in and i feel like that's just because they wanted to replay the music and have a chopper and instead he's just looking up at the chopper as the cops arrive and then it just cuts the black and i think it's jane up in the chopper right so you're just like all right jane go do go go go do firefly now go do that exactly yeah go do whatever you weren't doing much in this film except looking really angry so go keep doing that but put on a silly hat put on a beanie or you know whatever those hats are called get out of here yeah and then we cut to black and we basically get credits with the wonderful predator at the same end score i mean it's the same music again so that's great and that's the movie so this thing's a blast yeah i mean our nitpicks aside the movie's a blast that's a great time so i think what took me out of it i think you know to be honestly like i like i said like the first hour i'm like oh man like i slept like i saw this movie as a as a kid and i was like there's something about it i didn't like or whatever but um it's a great movie i think it's just some of the things like some of the you know the predators talking there's some you know some weird scenes with um you know there's some extra stuff in there the king willy stuff kind of was a little bizarre you know what also took me out to be honest uh from my 2024 perspective was some of the effects the fact that some of the effects didn't you know um didn't age well and you know that one of the things we talk about all the spielberg films and like we i mean there's only one steven spielberg but one of the things we can talk about with a lot of those films is that the effects though they're limited and you can tell they they couldn't do things because of just limitations um a lot of times those effects still i mean the trench run just still looks good it just still looks good um and that's what 60 60 years ago yeah i don't know i feel so old now but you know it was a long time ago um so like so i guess like we can't hold every movie to that standard but um but yeah like bad special effects i mean i guess it's the same way in monster movies oh two when it's like we're like oh my god that's so cheesy or the you know the physical effect is is kind of you know i mean the thing has wonderful practical effects you know and that's a wonderful movie sometimes they feel a little you know they feel a little dated but um it's until you get to the very last part where it comes out of the floor and it's clearly stop motion so right but that even a classic like that it's not flawless so you know and before anybody goes in the comments the trench run with Star Wars which is Lucas we know it stills the point holds there's a difference between the trench run and jar jar binks that's the point we're making do not put that in the comments below keep that shit to yourself we got that right we got that right we know yeah whatever Spielberg did the trench run who gives a shit it's fine yeah we know what we're talking about yeah yes i mean that's what that's what you're right yeah yeah yeah yeah the effects have there but you're right everything else you could probably cut the the graveyard scene out you could probably trim down the slaughterhouse fight to get rid of the one-liners and the movie would be a lot better losing that five to 10 minutes would tighten it way up yeah i would not cut the king willy scene because yeah directly adore that yeah but then the scene after it though is kind of tricky with the some of the effects and yeah it just feels like a glory and yeah let's not pretend that that king willy actor and that that scene was not horrible it is horrible yeah but it is the type of horrible that i enjoy it is the awfulness that's good whereas the effect stuff is distracting that's the difference yeah you're right is hilarious you're right the effects at the end are distracting unfortunately you can't get rid of in that end scene you need those scenes but you could trim down some of the other stuff and you could tighten the movie up pretty pretty significantly by just getting rid of a couple little things you need like you said Robert Dobby scene excise it gone don't need it gone you know you can even cut the part where he says you don't even need the scene where he says the only reason you have a job you could just cut to where the guys like hey you can't go off on your own would you really miss the Dobby scenes no you wouldn't miss them at all because they don't feel like they're the same movie so there is and i would bet i don't know this for a fact but i will go find out i'll bet there's a fan edit that does tighten this movie up because there's fan edits for everything so there probably is a slightly shorter version of this that's a lot better but even so even with the flaws this movie is an absolute riot it is one of the best ways if you're going to do a sequel to a classic instead of just redoing it top to bottom another guy in a jungle just a different jungle different jungle somewhere do something wildly different and stick with it which they did they never at no point did they give up on the concept the concept was all the way through and it's a blast of a movie and they spent money on it they spent money on it and they they made it a bigger production they put some money into it they weren't just like let's put some other guy like he said like that that resonated when you said that like they didn't just put some other guy in the jungle and had something i don't know maybe it was a different jungle somewhere you know like South America or where you know or Cambodia or something like and then have like a Vietnam theme in it or something like that like they you know what i mean like they they put in a completely different world and you know to your credit show when you were talking up this movie i was kind of like mmm i'm like i don't remember it being that great but the world building and the fact that this feels like a real place and it feels very much of the 90s but then it also feels like a future that somebody like realized and saying okay this is you know this is how the media will be then this is how the you know the heat will be an issue you know and so i just that felt really really really well done i just think it was like a few lines uh some of the some of the effects and maybe Gary Bucy was miscast dare i say maybe a different actor in Gary Bucy's role maybe a more senior actor who could have kind of given it a little more gravitas like you know our you know talking about the carpenter films we were looking at you know Halloween you know just even the kind of the the silliness that's happening in that but um the the actor uh oh hurley he or you know hurley he brings who brings sort of this like credibility to just the the insanity that it's some kind of pagan ritual you know that is that is happening so it could have been something like that and it could have you know it could have that could have then changed that whole dynamic um but then they redid aliens too in that scene but i actually i like that whole scene i think it's a nice action sequence it's just with some really great craneshots like you said but yeah it is 90 percent of the way to being a really excellent sequel it falls short in a few places but again i i yeah uh certain parts of it seem very prescient the hyper over you know use of the media to just get people crazy and emphasize you know you're supposed to be angry you're supposed to be outraged that's definitely current the heat dome already been mentioned yeah that's real yeah uh you know the the thing that really sets it in its time is the fashion honestly it's the fashion and some of the jokes uh the misogyny is definitely a dated thing right right the action and then the and then the tropes that like the the the action tropes you know of like the captains coming down on me i got a clean up my act or like you know that that that was there but that you know that was in the first predator too it was a action movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger and like a bunch of like dudes with muscles and they were just like doing this like you know paramilitary type maneuver and then it turns into this other horror film um but there are no scenes i think could be cut out and the movie would hold up so when it's like that i don't really care because if you can easily get rid of it it doesn't affect the narrative who cares and that's but you're right there are these little things and they add up to just enough where you're like it could have been great as a as a really wild variation on the theme but it also does prove and this was one of the points i made early on was the predator is uniquely suited to be just redone in many different ways that's why i think they've redone it so many times even when some of those movies have been awful and that's they finally got to pray and pray was excellent even though you know there were times where the cg was a little overdone the digital bear was a bit much but they also did a lot of practical and they they dialed the story back to simplicity and it works really well as a modern version of it's essentially the same story it's not really all that different from either the from the first one but it's great and it works really well so you could just keep trying it and when it works it works and when it doesn't forget about it there is no aliens versus predator requiem no that never existed well but here's my question so why wasn't there and i know there's the you know alien versus predator like situation you know it's almost a separate franchise but why wasn't there a true predator three like there was an alien three right or aliens three why wasn't there a true predator three with either Schwarzenegger or Glover or just a third new actor why in a different setting different scene somewhere i mean i know there's the alien first predator did the movie no the movie made money so i i don't have an explanation for that i don't it was like uh almost double its budget so which is why which is why probably then the alien verse predator that all sort of continue was allowed to i think that's probably one of the motivations for those films to be made because they're like aliens were successful predator was successful you know let's let's put them together i mean the comics i mean obviously you know um in fan fiction have something to do with that but um it just surprises me that there's not this third movie out there i mean there's a robocop three there's an aliens three do you know what i mean like why isn't there why wasn't there predator three yeah i can't find anything that indicates why so my my guess is maybe there were things behind the scenes where yeah maybe some of the people who maybe the studios changed maybe there was some change in leadership and they felt like they didn't know where to go with it there have been moving i mean look fury road was in development for over a decade right so things do happen so it may have been that the people who most believed in the concept were gone or replaced or died or who knows what or there could have been there probably were pitches for predator three that either were deemed too expensive they couldn't figure out how to make it work so well think about there was a big there was a big a gap between uh temple of doom and the last crusade oh yeah there was so there's this idea that you know the the first movie comes out the second one i i think you know uh temple of doom is not the best one but um it i think it was still successful somewhat successful or probably pretty successful if i think so yeah so uh but i think it was so those are like 80s films and then last crusade is what is that 90s something i i don't know the exact date so there was like a period of time between that that third film so i don't know is it just something like the first film is like if it's a hit people like great let's make more money and then the second film has to do something uh to be able to get a third i don't know well it may also be again we we have become used to end the sequels and maybe at that time that wasn't the thing where they went okay we made two we we've done two different versions of this let's just move on to something new there's a concert like let's not just keep redoing the same thing yeah like let's come up with a new idea because audiences are hungry for new things and yeah yeah and honestly the uh was it predators that was the one where they were on the predators planet Adrian Brody was in that or something yeah yeah that's it that's a clever yeah so maybe so was that predator three was was that predator three then or that's what i mean is maybe it was pitched a long time ago and it kept getting you know somebody wanted to do it the money fell through the stars fell through who knows what they couldn't figure out the right way the right writer to do it or the right approach for it those development hell is a real thing where movies get stuck and i mean they've been trying to make a live-action Akira for at least 15 years now and i hope they never ever ever fucking do but you know that there that's that does happen where oh this is a this is a great concept we know how to make the movie we can't make the movie why i don't know but we can't seem to make it happen so and maybe we're better off maybe at the time that predator three would have originally been made it might have been a really real it might have been robocop three so maybe we're better off than that we didn't get anything new for a while and it let people kind of there is a value we've talked about this there's a value in when you're doing a creative work stepping away from it for a while and not looking at it and then coming back and saying oh okay you know something you start maybe it doesn't seem right or you're rushing it step away come back and see what it looks like so maybe that was it and is it the typecasting thing too like you don't want to be the guy the predator guy that does the predator movies or you know what i mean like you want to write other scripts you want to do other things um you know so you just want to be typecast as you can only do an action movie you can only do it here a movie i i don't know yeah yeah it's it's like i said i would be interested i did not i did a quick search i didn't i didn't do anything thorough but i kind of now that you say that i'm curious i'll look around see if i can find anything but there could be a lot of reasons to it um but i my hunch is because i didn't know if this movie made money and it clearly did it made almost double its budget which is what they would consider successful so the fact that made money does make me think that they probably intended for there to be a third one and there was probably either a development problem or something shifted there's many stories of things where there's a sure fire sequel cut and then the studio head leaves where somebody new comes in and says yeah i hate the predator i never liked that movie i don't care if it made money i don't want to do it or the opposite where the wild wild west producer was like no matter what there has to be a giant spider in it somehow right it's a why by the way because i like spiders isn't it another movie uh hopkins directed who's involved in wild wild west did i accidentally pick another movie back i think so because i think he did oh no somebody did somebody related to this so he did no no that was street it was that that was barry son and fell because it was the men in black guy that that was why they thought that was going to be a sure fire hit son and fell did that one yeah the man the men in black i did it and the honest family guy he did men in black oh i was family and i think it was wild wild west but Jim and that was why they were Jim Thompson the writer one of the co-writers of uh predator two did wrote not only predator predator two uh and then wild wild west in 1999 he also did executive decision with Kurt Russell speaking of getting rid of cigar early yes good idea right that was the plane good car i remember that was such a movie's gone that was such a shocking like oh man like they killed cigar that was that was that's the best part of that movie is that you think cigar is going to be around and he gets sucked out of the plane at minute 20 maybe i mean no he makes it that far in he's gone and then we just get to hang with Kurt Russell which is great we just get to hang with him that's fine with me yeah much better so well we have now talked about robocop and predator two and cigar a little bit of cigar in there too a little bit of cigar we got yeah we we kind of released all over the place but i think i would say is a kind of final summation of both films i think both films are wonderful sequels neither of them gets within a mile of the quality of the first one they just do not but i also don't i don't know that they really intended to i feel like both these movies were made with the understanding that to be able to get the quality of the first movie you'd have to get everybody back and if you can't then let's do something different and we'll try to get it to be at least a worthy follow-up i think predator two gets closer to being a where i legitimately would watch both movies back to back and be entertained the whole way and understand there's a quality difference but whereas robocop one to two you you are definitely going down a few rungs on the ladder and you just have to know that but as long as you're okay with that then you're going to have a good time so i think they're both fun i think they make a great double feature with their originals i also think they make a great double feature the way we've just talked about them one after the other they're great sequels to watch they're a lot of fun and i guess that's all we have to say about it so as a reminder a dog's album music for billionaires is available anywhere that you could buy any type of music that you'd like to spend money on so we make no judgments on the quality of your music choices yeah just buy the album just spend the money spend yeah it's hard work being a creator of making money just spend it buy it who cares where you buy it guy on the street with a trench coat itunes i would prefer itunes because i feel like the guy in the trunk or in the trench coat probably doesn't it has like a bootleg copy and i can't vouch for the mix quality if it you know who knows what's going on this trench coat he's overdubbed it with his opinion on the flatter theory so i know for a fact that there's a calo core the earth the reptilians are in there yeah and they've created a flat disc and you people are all suckers and then the track cuts in and he's like by the way tinfoil hats they work yeah you know that it might explain some of the feedback i've been getting on amazon actually about some of my theories on dead internet theory i was like i don't think i talked about it on the album that i'm sure we're getting underneath of this yes i'm sure what did we get wrong would it yeah what what did we get wrong how are we stupid what movies have we never washed in our lives you know do you do you believe in know what what steven spielberg movies are no we don't who cares so on that note thank you for sticking around for this rambling incoherent five hours i'm sure by the time i'm done oh yeah of talking about two movies that most people probably haven't seen and here's an article a lot of people probably haven't watched these in a long time go back to watch them because yeah you're doing a lot of fun i did i enjoyed myself and i went back and like i said there's some things that don't age well but uh if anything it just reminded me of the time when i first saw these in the early 90s and so it was a nostalgia trip uh but it was also there's a lot of good stuff in both of these films there is and just as a final emphasis to avoid anything down here we're not saying that either of them as good as the first one we're just saying they're a lot of fun and i'm like a lot of sequels that are just terrible and almost unwatchable and sometimes they're a lot of fun they like ruin the first movie where you're like i don't even want to watch the first movie now it's ruined well listen robocop three is an example of one of the worst sequels i've ever seen it's not bad this is not that robocop two is not robocop three and predator two is not a terrible sequel it's just if anything remakes and sequels should attempt to do something new they don't always get it all right but the fact that there was an effort to not just remake the first one again they didn't make gust van sant psycho one of the biggest waste of timeline entire life oh let's just shoot the same movie again because i'm an asshole and i want to waste whatever but with an ash and uh yeah some questionable uh norman baits casting yeah when the when the first decision was terrible nothing that follows it can possibly be good so remaking hitchcock shot for shot is not a good idea unless you're hitchcock so on that inspirational note thanks for watching please feel free to comment on whatever you want i promise i won't care and uh until next time uh go watch these movies they're fun they're easy to find they're cheap to rent i think they're on certain services for free so it's not like they're hard to get those beautiful four case i believe of both so if you dig them as much as we do you can get them in a pristine format but number one thing is go in have a good time enjoy what they are and i don't know what our next set of movies will be they might be as fun as this they might be more serious but dog as always it's been a blast i love talking about this stuff another great time and that's it everybody not going to shut up bye visit ozone nightmare dot com to subscribe to new episodes browse through our back catalog or to find links to support the show follow at ozone nightmare on twitter for the latest episode postings and other show information if 280 characters just isn't enough you can always email us the ozone nightmare at gmail.com music for ozone late night is provided by oger visit oger sounds dot fan camp dot com to hear and purchase his fantastic selection of music music music [BLANK_AUDIO]
