Shopify grows with your business no matter how far or big you grow. From the launch your online shop stage to the first real life store stage, all the way to the "Did we just hit a million order" stage, Shopify is there to help you grow. Whether you're selling your fan's next favorite shirt or an exclusive piece of podcast merch, Shopify helps you sell everywhere, from their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person POS system, wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com/income, all lowercase. Go to Shopify.com/income to grow your business no matter what stage you're in. This is Pop Culture Confidential and I'm Christina Yerling Beru. Hey everyone, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so pleased to get to visit with a previous favorite guest of the show, Mr. Paul Racey. Racey was Oscar nominated for his work in Sound of Metal, where he played the leader of a sober living community for The Death, which was very personal to him as he himself is a coda, which means child of death adults. And a sign language interpreter in the Los Angeles County Superior Court System. Since then, you may have seen him in Jennifer Lopez' Netflix hit The Mother. Now he's back in another memorable role in a fantastic new film called Sing Sing. Sing Sing, which also stars recent Oscar nominee Coleman Domingo, is about a group of prisoners trying to stage a theater production inside the maximum security correctional facility Sing Sing through the RTA, the rehabilitation through the arts project. Unique to the film is that the majority of the cast are former convicts who themselves participated in the rehabilitative theater program, and they are incredible. Behind the film is writer-director Greg Quider and his longtime co-writer Clint Bentley. Paul Racey plays the real theater director and group leader, Brent Buhl. This is a clemency hearing for your conviction 25 to life. Since you've been in custody, you've been involved in the theater program. Gentlemen, let's go. This has been a program that was established to help people who wanted to do their feelings and it fully gets some rehabilitation. I am Vladimir Goliath, the life of Stormtokos. I'm Prince Hamlet, Co. Didn't want to create a film. And it's turned into something, I don't know, wonderful. What part do you play? From time to time I do act, like we all do. So are you acting at all during this interview? We're here to become human again and enjoy the things that is not in our reality. I think you guys are becoming real with each other, vulnerable. Listen, I really know what you're doing, know who you are, what you're about, bro. What? You don't get to tell me what I need in prison, you don't get to do that. And don't bring me in those dark corners no more. The world expects brothers like you and I to walk in with our heads held down. Now what you got to walk in is like a king. Everything is yours. I'm divine now. Yeah, this is my fear. Now give us a hug, give us a hug. Go to your most perfect spot. Do you hear anything? Are you with somebody? Are you outside? Hold that feeling. Let's go! You've got to admit that I've murdered that hamlet. You know, Shakespeare is in his grave right now. He rolled over. You did your thing, beloved. Paul, Racey, thank you so much for joining me again. My pleasure. It's very good to see you. Listeners will remember that Paul was with us for his great performance in Sound of Metal. Since then, most notably you were Oscar nominated for that. You had some huge films, Jennifer Lopez, Sing Sing Now, which I walked out of so moved that I emailed you like walking on the street because I thought it was such an incredible film and incredible performance all around. I want to go back a little bit to that conversation we had last time because I was so taken by how personal and close Sound of Metal was to you. It was about your parents were deaf, you spent decades working as a courtroom American Sign Language interpreter. When Sing Sing came your way, did it feel as personal and how? Well, it did. I'm really blessed that at this age, I'm able to use various backgrounds and situations that have been involved in. For me, my whole Sign Language interpreting career, which was connected to the court system in Los Angeles and in Chicago, I would be involved going to prisons, places of incarceration, federally and state to do interviews with deaf inmates. So, it wasn't as though going behind the walls of Sing Sing or the place that we filmed the movie was anything new to me. I was very used to it. In my case, all of my clients were deaf and it's just a whole system back there. You got the bailiffs to deal with and they've got to protect themselves. My clients who were deaf were chained to their chairs for the interview and I'd ask, can I get his hands free, he needs to be interviewed by the attorney and it says you right hand or left handed. You know, as a young man, you caught up in the system and you go, well, are you right hand or left handed? But as an older guy, as I got toward the end of my career as an interpreter, I'd say, listen, I need this guy's hands and I'm going to go tell the judge because I've known the judge for 25 years. So, you learn how to become an advocate in a way for the people that you're working with, not for, but with. So yeah, it wasn't new to me. And that Sing Sing movie was filmed in a real facility that had just been decommissioned kind of Katie corner to the real Sing Sing, you know, up in the upper state New York. So, the gravity of the situation was always with us, Christina, all the guys that were there, this is a place that they actually did plays and we're serving that some of them 25 33 years. This movie is about the RTA the rehabilitation through arts program and there's so much authenticity in the movie, you and Coleman Domingo course seasoned actors but you have Clarence Maclin right and Sean Johnson, they're playing version of themselves. But teen actors, the majority of the cast are former convicts who themselves had been participants in this RTA program, former inmates. What was it like for you seeing them coming back and stepping into this, literally going back to the place where they had been incarcerated. So, you know, we only had about 21 days of a window to shoot the movie for and you know, as was the case with sound or metal, another small indie project but to watch these guys work was inspiring. Just brought home what they had gone through, and all the years they had spent there so it was very real to us. It was hard for them psychologically. Yeah, a couple of them were expressed that it was hard for them you know Clarence Maclin said it was hard to put the greens back on and had a certain itch to his skin. Clarence is a highly intelligent actor and he really has a way with describing things he was describing how his cell. And at night in the middle of July the walls would just sweat. And from the ceiling the sweat would come down him in the face and it was almost a relief from the heat that they were all suffering together. Now these guys, they knew where they were, and it just brought her home all the more every day that we shot it was, it was a beautiful experience it really was. And what did they teach you that they give you notes, we wouldn't have done this or this is what it would look like. The guy that I was playing Brent Buell was actually on set and I watched him interact with all the guys at lunch. They were really good friends. The thing that I learned really was just that this was their territory. I guess the number one thing that comes to mind is patience. Can you imagine? I'm always in hurry to get to the next project. I want to be working I want to be doing this when I'm doing that and these guys just were in the moment very, very much so, which is what you need to do. Honest to God, all I really had to do was be present and listen, that's a big part of acting that you need to understand and I've got that note. These guys were a joy to work with, very present and patient. And how did they express how theater was such a good part for the rehabilitation process? Well, here's the thing, more than three or four of these guys who we have lunch every day, they told me that if it wasn't for this program, if they had only met their teacher Brent Buell when they were 19, it probably wouldn't have ended up in syncing. And here's another statistic, the recidivism rate for syncing. And within a three year period after getting released from syncing is 67%, something like that. If you have participated in the RTA program, the acting program, the recidivism rate is 3%, 3%. Wow, that's amazing. It's amazing. These guys in the act of becoming actors and studying themselves and going with them, it's almost a tragic or ironic discovery, they find out their own humanity on a deep level. Hey, when I was studying comedy at Second City in Chicago, attorneys would take classes there because they wanted to learn how to be fast on their feet in front of each other. You know, acting is a very cool tool to have in your work belt, even if you're not really a professional actor. But these guys take it to another level, all these guys. You're talking about how fantastic this program is and afterwards, is the prison system, are people taking it seriously, will there be more of this kind of thing? Well, that's seriously enough. No, there are, I think in the state of New York, there might be three acting programs. Listen, Brent Beal, the guy that I play, his friends told him, don't do this, don't take this in. They're going to take advantage of you and make a long story short, he made the best friends of his life in syncing. Anyway, across the country, there are people that have the will to do this and bring them into places of incarceration. I don't know what that statistic is, but there certainly is not enough of it. And that statistic about the recidivism should be a, it should be a wake up call, it should be an eye opener for people. It's all about being devalued in that place of incarceration. And so it's a power struggle and it's between who and what, whatever, you even see it in syncing with a guy says, at the very beginning, no cigarettes, you know, it's like, there's this power struggle. Instead of devaluing dehumanizing and dehumanizing, you know what they do in these indigenous cultures when somebody makes a mistake, and I don't know which ones but they'll take them, they'll put them in the middle of everybody in the tribe. And they'll say, look, I remember when you were a young boy, you were seven years old and you were grand, you were nice to my grandmother. I remember and you used to carry the water or whatever the stories are. But they certainly don't do what we do. It's almost the same when I, when I got indoctrinated into the military, they shaved my head and made me, you know, they took all away my dignity. I was a prisoner, I was drafted to go to Vietnam and didn't go there voluntarily. So in a sense, I was this country's prisoner until my time was done. I wish I had the patience that I witnessed on this film set with these men. Hey, it's Kaylee Cuoco for Priceline, ready to go to your happy place for a happy price? Well why didn't you say so? Just download the Priceline app right now and save up to 60% on hotels. Whether it's cousin Kevin's kazoo concert in Kansas City, go Kevin or Becky's Bachelorette Bash in Bermuda. You never have to miss a trip ever again. So download the Priceline app today. Your savings are waiting. Go to your happy place for a happy price. Got your happy price, Priceline. Tell me about Clarence Devine and I, Macklin. What was his story? He was, he was, he's only recently gotten out the last couple of years, I believe, but he was there. He was a yard dog, so to speak. He was a really tough guy running drugs in and out of there and he, that story is pretty much true to life. The relationship that he has with Coleman Domingo, Coleman plays Divine G, not John Whitfield, who also has a cameo in this movie at the beginning there, but their relationship was that kind of a thing. And Clarence, he doesn't have a remarkable job for his first product. I mean, all of them. It's incredible. So moving and tough. And I have to say him in particular, his eyes. He's tough, but he's so vulnerable. There's some sadness back. He's locked up a long time. And that's his message. He wants people to know that there are human beings in these places. And we should think of them as that. Yeah, Clarence is an inspiration. I can't say enough about him. And Coleman Domingo, also another inspirational force on the set was all business. There was no time for any nonsense on this set. We all had a task. We had to do it in these two young director. Well, Greg Wheat are the director and his partner, Clint Bentley, are serious filmmakers with a lot of heart, a lot of soul. One of the things that I think that they do so well is that the filmmakers have really foregone, so to speak, the usual tropes and cliches of a prison film, right? It's concentrated on the theater group and the psychology of the guys. And you feel what you were speaking to, the inhumanity, the violence, what they're going through, both from the prison system and in theirs, but you don't actually have to see those, the violence in the sense that we're so used to in prison films. And I think that that makes it very beautiful as well. Well, that's another thing that Clarence had told me was that he said, you know, Paul, I've never seen myself depicted. I've seen every prison film there is. I've never seen myself depicted on that screen ever. He said that this is stuff, all the good, that is that's not what it's like in prison, it'd be insane thing. He saw the plays that these men were doing for the population. And sometimes they had to hire in some female actors to come in and fulfill some roles on stage when they did Shakespeare. He wanted to get in it because there was some women on stage you want to get next to a female. That was original intent. And he ended up becoming the Clarence Mackle that you that you're going to witness in singing. Amazing. But he said, this is the first movie we were actually going to see what it's like. And I think what he's what he means is, instead of the tropes, you don't you feel the desperation that's going on back there. And that beautiful line. We're here to become human again, which sort of is the whole idea, right? Absolutely. And another thing. I've studied it a lot of spiritual centers here in LA as I've searched for my own spirituality. And there was one place that I went to, where they call we everybody called each other the beloved. I never heard a man call another man beloved in a prison movie. But when when you hear, they do that in this film called each other beloved. And that comes from divine gene divine gene divine eye will consider themselves and it all starts from within in this horrendous situation. I am the beloved. And you are the beloved. And when he says that to him, he said, when he says, I don't want to run it, but it took calls him the beloved. It's precious, man. It's beautiful in a prison like same thing. It's great. Let's talk a little bit about Brent Buell, who, of course, I'm assuming you had lots of conversation with and he actually wrote this amazing, pretty crazy manic play that you put up here, which has, which includes everything from Roman. Gladiators to Shakespeare to comedy. Is it true that he wrote it in four days? Yes, it was like 140 pages. And well, Brent's all in. He's all in on being a teacher, him and his wife, Janice, they really walk the walk talk the talk. I mean, when a lot of these guys were released from prison had nowhere to go, they would put them up in their home until they could get back on their feet. That's the kind of guy that he is. It's very peaceful, loving man. And he would be in some of the productions, many of the productions. As you see at the end there where they're showing the credits of the various productions that he's up there, he's got the long flowing hair. Very, he's a good man. And yeah, that whole thing is true that he wrote it in four days. And they, somebody wanted to have a nightmare and I'm street nurse, he got Freddie in there and he got all these things. And it is a comedy. Yeah, because these guys could go from like a really serious Shakespeare, very traditional to something like this. They did 12 angry men. So there were various things that they did was beautiful. I mean, you do so much good work for so many people and your life has been dedicated to that also could Brent teach you anything. Well, the thing that the Brent teaches me every time I get together with him is just that his, he's totally full of love. And I, it's weird how this hierarchy goes but some people look to me as their inspiration because I tell them, my, my advice is always that somebody told me because I've got a, I got a heavy day today. And I got to work with this person. And it's going to be, I said, well, be loving. Just try to be loving. That was the best advice that I'd ever gotten. And sometimes it doesn't sink in until you're an older person because I'm thinking about how I should have been loving other times in my life. So my point is about Brent, when I'm together with him, he's my reminder Paul, be loving. Because I'm sure there must have been times for Brent. I mean, not during the movie, but for real when, when there was a struggle and there were prisoners who difficult. Well, he, he's told me about one section where, where he was directing a play and he got up and got in this guy's face. I don't care who you are, this is my play and I'm directing it. And everybody around him thought the guy was going to do something to Brent. Brent was so passionate about the work that this big, burly guy just looked at him and kind of, you know, was down with it and respected that. He does have a temper, he does have a temper, which is kind of there's there's one part of it in same seeing also the movie where I've had enough with Clarence, and I just wanted to do the work. And then of course Coleman intercedes and gets him to see what's going on. And something that's unique and unusual about this project in Hollywood and quite beautiful it's a parody project. So everyone is getting paid exactly the same from Coleman to Mingo to you to the production assistant. What do you make of that and would you like to see more of this in an industry which is as difficult as it is right now. Yeah, I say why not. And it's about time, these two young guys are Clint Bentley and the great fed are, they want to stay, they want us to be a parody thing. And imagine now, in this particular case, these 13 guys are telling their own story on screen, and in the real world of Hollywood we would have shot this on a set. This is shot in a real facility. So there's an air of realism. It was less expensive by the way. And they're going to get to share in their own story, rather than being day players or whatever it is a five and under, or however these guys are now. That's got to be hard. That's a hard life when you're aspiring to do a whole day of work as a speaking actor. I know what that's like. See, that's what I did my whole career. I totally get that. Now I'm now at this tier where I can look back and look at the hungry years as they say, with gratitude, because of where I am right now and the things that I'm able to do right now. I certainly don't take it for granted that's for sure. So, am I for this? Yes. Everyone has the same and then everyone gets sort of if there is a back end, everyone has a little part in it right. Yes, yes. These 13 guys that that are playing basically themselves do you know what they want to do? Do you want they want to continue to do several of them want to keep acting or what are they doing with life. All of them are already Dino, the big guy with the big eyes, you know, we just here to become human. He's an actor, JJ, the guy who talks about his mother across the river. She can see him in there, JJ's acting pursuing it. And of course, Clarence is his manager. We have the same manager here in common with my management company and GMT. So these guys are already out there pursuing it. And as well as they should be, they're perfect. And on set, very professional. Catch on very quick. It's not rocket science. You know, all you gotta do is have some heart and have a relationship and they're great. Let's take a couple minutes here at the end to talk you have another project as well. At the semi you're everywhere. Tell me about this. The secret art of human flight is my other movie it's out right now it's on a smaller theatrical release, but it's about a young couple who writes children's books. Life dies and this young man is a widower, and he's grieving. So it's a movie about grief. And he runs across on the dark internet he runs across a man who swears he can teach you how to fly like a bird. That's me I played the guru who has written this manuscript, and for the mirror talking about $5,000 I can come out there and teach you how to fly so it's, it's a movie about grief. And the guy that I play is kind of a mixture of these. The gurus that I met out here in Los Angeles, life coaches, if you will, every actor that I know I hear, not everyone but almost all of them are life coaches. It's a good way for actors to make money. Although looking for the next gig. So that's what my character is like. And this is just a small movie. It's got a lot of heart, it's light on its feet, and the ending will make you feel satisfied. So if you haven't seen it right, please check it out there. What's next for you. Do you have big projects, small projects. My producing company, Coda Hart, I'm producing right now, a documentary about deathheads. Back in the 70s, Jerry Garcia from the Grateful Dead, allowed there to be a death zone in front of a stage where death people would come, have interpreters and watch the Grateful Dead production. I've got a Coda brother of mine who has a lot of footage from those days, and we're producing a documentary about those days when there were deathheads attending the Grateful Dead concert. So I've got that going on. It's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's, it's visually stunning. Come back on and talk about that. I love it. Yeah, yeah, when I finished this. Well, thank you so much for taking your time with me again. Thank you for this movie and all your projects. I so appreciate it. And, and again, I hope that this has a huge life and many people go to see it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much to Paul Reising. Don't miss Sing Sing in theaters now. And thank you for listening to pop culture confidential part of the evergreen podcast network. Please subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time. Are you looking for a podcast where you can learn about the juiciest historical events and people, but it really feels like you're just gossiping with your girlfriends over a glass of wine or two? Well, that's why we created right answers mostly for what you didn't learn in history class, but you really wanted to. I'm your host Claire Donald and I'm Tess Bellomo. Join us every Monday as we dive into the most iconic people and events and get ready to laugh along the way. We covered all from Titanic to Chris Jenner, Studio 54, Marie Antoinette, even Colts and crimes such as Charles Manson and Jonestown every Monday, wherever you listen to your podcast because history is just gossip. Follow us at right answers mostly for more.
