Pop Culture Confidential

Episode 29: Susan Sarandon on Hedy Lamarr - Actress, Rebel and Inventor

On this weeks episode we are honored to talk to Susan Sarandon - Oscar winning actress, producer, Ping-Pong enthusiast, social and political activist, and passionately committed to human rights. Together with her production company Reframed Pictures; Susan Sarandon now embarks on a documentary project about one of her real inspirations, actress Hedy Lamarr! Lamarr was a Hollywood superstar know as the “the most beautiful woman in the world” but she had a secret life – as a brilliant inventor. Lamarr’s World War II invention changed history and our lives, and today is a technology that we use in cellphones, Bluetooth and Wi-Fi communication, but Hedy Lamarr would not get the recognition she deserved. Because of her storied career, Sarandon was in a unique position to understand what it was like for Hedy Lamarr to fight hard for roles on screen while fighting harder to change the world off screen. In this week’s episode we talk to Susan Sarandon about her new documentary but also why Hedy is an inspiration to her, how Sarandon has survived the pressures of Hollywood, why she is endorsing Bernie Sanders, the Oscar boycott, and SO much more!! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Duration:: 26m
Broadcast on:: 03 Mar 2016
Audio Format:: other

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(upbeat music) This episode is brought to you by Skinny Pop Popcorn. Perfectly popped andlessly delicious. Oh, so light and crunchy. Skinny Pop Original Popcorn is the snack you've been searching for. Made with just three simple ingredients, popcorn, kernel, sunflower oil, and salt. Snacking never felt or tasted, so good. Perfectly popped andlessly delicious. Give yourself permission to snack and pick up Skinny Pop Original Popcorn today. (upbeat music) Actress and activist Susan Sarandon is producing a new documentary about one of her inspirations, the glamorous Hollywood actress, Hadi Lamar, whose secret life is an inventor, influenced history, and all of our lives. This is Pop Culture Confidential. (upbeat music) Hi, I'm Kristina Yerling-Biro. Thank you for listening. Today I get to talk with and about two incredibly talented bold and fierce women whose mark on the world cannot be denied. Susan Sarandon is one of America's finest actors. She starred in films such as The Rocky Horror Picture Show, Bull Durham, Thelman Louise, and Deadman Walking, for which she won the best actress Oscar. And throughout her whole adult life, she's been strongly committed to social causes and to being a force for good in our world. Starting with the Vietnam protests and then the civil rights marches, she protested the Iraq war and advocated for LGBTQ and women's rights. And just now, over Christmas, she spent a week on Lesbos Greece meeting refugees and sharing their stories. Susan Sarandon seems to have an abundance of energy and curiosity, whether it be working at her New York City ping pong club, acting, producing, or shedding a light on an issue important to her. And then Hetty Lamar, born in Vienna 1914, who fled from her Nazi collaborating husband. And as the story goes, negotiated herself with MGM boss Louis Mayer for the pay she found acceptable. Hetty Lamar became a huge Hollywood star, known as the most beautiful woman in the world. She was a free spirit and married six times. But she had a secret. As it turns out, she was a brilliant inventor who in the midst of World War II, co-invented a radio control technology meant for 1940s era torpedoes. The invention would ultimately pave the way for secure cell phone communication, Wi-Fi, and so much more. But as is the case with many famous women inventors, it took decades for Lamar to receive the recognition she deserved. But now, in what seems like a sisterhood across decades, Susan Sarandon will executive produce and narrate the documentary Hetty about Hetty Lamar's amazing life and fate. The movie is produced through Sarandon's own predominantly female-driven, reframed pictures and directed by Alexander Dean. Mr. Sarandon, it's such an honor to talk to you. Thank you so much for being here. - Well, I'm just thrilled to be able to talk about Hetty. This is really the first interview I've given on this project. So thank you for having me. - Well, thank you. You say that Hetty Lamar is an inspiration, why? - Well, here's a woman who was honored and revered for how gorgeous she was. And it turns out that she did closet scientists who, you know, was so well-intentioned when she gave her invention to the lady that she didn't even ask for credit and didn't even put it in her name. And I think she just, you know, what came of it? It's the most beautiful woman in the world. It's also the secret inventor and used her pre-time to co-inventor radio control technology that now we're using in our cell phones and everything else. And, you know, I think it's extraordinary. And it ties in with the fact that, you know, she didn't get credit and the fact that everyone is surprised that you can have a brain and be gorgeous. Ties in with the fact that we don't have role models for young girls who go into science. You know, considering that women represents 47% of the US workforce that are really underrepresented in the sciences and engineering with only 25% of the jobs in those industries, says that we have to really look and encourage girls to be able to imagine themselves in these fields because that's the only thing that really stands in the way of them succeeding in these areas. You know, if you can't imagine yourself doing something, then it's really never gonna happen. And so being able to tell this story, which is so full of, you know, she was married five or I think six times. - Six times. - Yeah, and she was wild, you know, just a wild woman and absolutely gorgeous. And from the very beginning was going against convention and removing herself in situations that were toxic and going to Hollywood, which may not have been less toxic. I don't know, but anyway, gave her more options. - And she was controversial for the beginning. They're her first movie, Ecstacy. She was one of the first women to show a female orgasm. - Yeah, I mean, I gotta look at that movie. I haven't seen it, I have to find that movie. - People are pretty spooked still about the female orgasm, right? - I know, I was very disappointed in 50 shades of gray or how many shades of gray that was that they just did all of the dyeing and you never once got one orgasm. I don't understand how that was going to be true. So yeah, the fact that you can have all this, I think it just opens up the perception for women and men to understand that we're really coming up short when we don't open those doors to women. And it's so, so sexy, I mean, some of the quotes that I've heard are just crazy about where was it there? - The Nobel laureate, Tim Hunt, advocated for gender segregation and science labs because in his experience, quote, "Women fall in love with you "and when you criticize them, they cry." - Oh yeah, well, gotta get way past that. It's so shocking. It would be as if, you know, Angelina Jolie in the midst of, you know, the war on ISIS suddenly took out a pad and scribbled down so formula for something that would have changed the course of the war. And so it's really a fun story, you know. It's fun, but it's also sad that, you know, what happened to her at the end and that she didn't get recognition and that she ended up alone and unrecognized and unrecognizable because of bad plastic surgery. - 'Cause that's a very sad part of her story. It seemed like her beauty was her fall and aging was incredibly hard for her. - Well, I think that when you, you know, I live in New York and I think that that really helped as you're getting older in that business because there's so many different businesses that exist in New York and, you know, at a certain point, you can focus on what's on the inside and not just the outside. And when you're in Hollywood or, you know, when you're living that life and you're scrutinized, you know, while you're buying ahead of lettuce at the grocery store, I think it's very hard to hold your center. I understand, you know, she came in, she became famous, not as an actor, but as a beauty. And so that was so much of her identity. And since the science part of it was still in the closet and no one was really capitalizing or rewarding her for her intelligence, so much of who she was, was tied up in the way she looks, which makes it so much harder when inevitably that starts to change. I mean, it's just, it's actually your basket, you're putting all your eggs in, you're gonna have a downfall at some point because it's just, you can't fight gravity, you know, you can't fight it. - How have you made appearance not define you as an actress? - Well, I never saw myself as a great beauty to begin with. I was always saw myself as a character actor and I had a sense of humor about the business because I never really, I never studied acting, I never thought that's what I was in. I kind of fell into it and I always saw my career as a mean to an end, but not a defining, not an identity definer. Now, this is not to say that I didn't have my ups and downs and disappointments about, you know, not getting parts, but I wanted parts to challenge me more at a certain point and I was drifting further and further out of the business and more into hands-on politics. I mean, out of the late '60s and '70s, it was that was part of my DNA and then I was blessed with a child at the end of my 30s and that was kind of, it gave my life more meaning just at a point when I was kind of had demystified the business and, you know, felt as if I wasn't really getting challenging parts and I was okay with that and focused on her and then both Durham came along. Every time I did something, it should have ended my career somehow and managed to stay afloat, but I never really saw my career as something that defined me and I was determined to use it rather than be used by it. So in that sense, I had an advantage as I started to get older. I mean, I did full Durham when I was 40 and that was, you know, the first part that was really bigger than I was and I was so happy. That was a career changer or maybe not a career changer, but a life changer for sure because it restored my faith and what could happen in the museum, of course, I met Kim doing that and that changed my life. So I think that seeing myself as a character actor and not as an ingenue and then a leading lady gave me a broader base to build on than somebody who played themselves over and over and, you know, was really a gorgeous person. I never really saw myself. I thought I was passable, but I never thought of myself as a great beauty. - Well, that's hard for us to see 'cause you really are. One thing I really appreciated in your career, which seems to be what you appreciate, heady as well, if I'm not mistaken, is a strong woman, but with a very complicated life. I mean, life costs something. You're not just strong. Are you drawn to that type of character? - Well, I love women and, you know, it's funny to me that people think I play strong women because when I'm playing them, they feel very vulnerable. I mean, you know, Dan DiPhelman, Louise, she's vulnerable. And I think vulnerability is a strength to be able to be on screen and be open and allow for possibilities is, I think, what sometimes people read as sensuality. I mean, I think of myself as a really good listener and that shows on screen, but I think that all of these parts, sister Helen, we work very, very hard to make sure that all along she's pulled in and pulled in and pulled in. She doesn't start the movie saying I'm gonna change the death penalty. She doesn't, you know, that's not what heroes are about. They're ordinary people who in extraordinary circumstances go towards the life, go towards the truth. And all the films that I have found, I always see as love stories. I always see as people who are choosing to be the protagonist in their own life, but it might be White Palace, you know, if she finally has to leave the guy and stand up for herself and in what seems like a strong move that will cost a lot. And I think all the women that I really admired on screen be they Don Moreau or Sylvana Mondeau or, you know, all of these European actresses have that kind of vulnerability which is not to be confused with being a victim, but I think that's what you have to go for in your life. It's some kind of authenticity mixed with kindness, mixed with, you know, something that says I say yes to life. And if you're paying yes to life, then you're definitely making yourself vulnerable. But I think that's the choice. And I say that having burned and crashed and the number of times. - Which is what's so interesting with heady's story, of course, that it's, I mean, it's the truth that none of us are just strength from the beginning. We have to go through things to get there. - Absolutely, once you, the people that I admired have all fallen and risen again. And because they have, they become, you know, somebody to admire. I think hey, you had a problem because also she, someone I can glean from the story that we've seen so far, she didn't have a lot of female friends. I mean, she didn't have, you know, I'm not core friends that I've had for 40 years. They're not all in the business. I don't see all of them all the time. Some of them are women, some of them are gay men. I don't find that there are many guys that I've actually been, you know, in relationships stick around once you split. But in terms of my gay friends or my women friends, I've had these people in my life forever, you know, through my decision to have a child out of wedlock in the beginning when nobody had kids that I knew, you know, they stood by me. And I think Hetty suffered from first of all being in that town and secondly of all being herself as only accepted for her beauty. It came from also being in that town. And I don't think she had, you know, a really great group of, a group of friends that she could really count on. And I think that made it much more difficult for her as she, you know, aged. - Looking back, you were talking about before that part of your strategy for survival and not even strategy, part of your survival has been your passion for social causes. When you look back today, what has been some of the most controversial cause that you have had, that you've led, the biggest shitstorm? - Well, of course I came of age at a time when, you know, the news still showed you what was going on. And so, you know, the civil rights movement in the south was obviously something you should be part of. Vietnam was obviously something you should be against. And, you know, you didn't have the internet but you had some images. And so, you know, if you had half a brain, you were against the war. It became, I think, more difficult as we lost information and media became more corporate. And I guess, the one that, you know, there have been two things that have really put me on lists where my life became quite difficult and definitely the objection to going into Iraq the first time and the second time especially because there was such a psychic wound in the United States and to try to slow down the march to war was seen as being anti-American and that was definitely part of the administration's strategy. And so, to be set apart from the herd, from your tribe, and getting death threats and having my kids being picked on in the news and having, became very lonely and kind of scary. The other time at the Academy Awards on the Haitians at Guantanamo were dying because they'd been there and have been deserted there and have been promised to get out the HIV patients. And we did the thing at the Oscars. That got me banned from the Academy Awards until I was nominated again. But that did a nerve with people who were racist and homophobic and who felt that somehow these people were gonna take their bed in the hospital or something. You know, it's always at the heart of it, some kind of ignorance. The getting arrested about the Diallo shooting had a ramification in the city with a lot of the police that were here. You know, I found a lot of harassment after that. But I guess the biggest one at that time when everyone was so frightened was definitely the lead up to Iraq when you're called it the modern mother and everything. But even in the early days of AIDS, before anyone was talking about it and everyone was so frightened because no one understood it. And I think I was one of the few women that went to the early demonstrations. And even that was, you know, when people are afraid, they have a tendency to attack whoever is standing in the front. And so any of these issues where people are coming and encouraged to come from a place of fear because that's how, you know, we have a culture of fear now. That's what's going on in the United States. Anytime that happens, then, you know, if you're standing up, you're gonna be the first target. But the problem, I mean, for me, you know, it's always harder to live with myself when I don't say something, when I don't take advantage of my position connection and the media. And I've always felt that I'm just a little flat by trying to give out some information that I don't have the answers necessarily but that I can ask questions which other people would like to ask but don't have the opportunity. - You just endorsed Bernie Sanders. I get the feeling that people are kind of disappointed that you're not going for Hillary? - There are some women that are disappointed, not all. Hillary Clinton lost me when she voted for the war and if she doesn't, her ties with Monsanto and with Wall Street and a lot of other corporations signal to me that she doesn't really reflect my position on important issues. She was very, very late to get behind gay marriage and she's been very wishy watching on abortion. So I'm insulted as a woman saying that other people expect me to just vote for her because of her gender. I think women are smarter than that. I would love to see a woman in the White House. I believe we will have a woman in the White House. Had Elizabeth Warren run, I would have definitely been behind her. But if Hillary Clinton, for me, is business as usual. Bernie Sanders has a record that's just impeccable and he's been in the House. He's been in the Senate. What he did when he was the mayor of Burlington is amazing. So for me, issues count and your record counts. And I want somebody in the White House who has a moral bottom line that holds up when it is not the politically advantageous thing to do. And if you Google his speech on the Senate floor when we were voting to go to war, he was right on in every single point that he's made. And I know that he, I've spoken, I'm about to go on the road with him for four days. And I'm going to Iowa on Tuesday. And I know that the millennials, women, are not intimidated by the pressure to vote because he's a woman. They're listening to what's going on. So there are people who feel that they owe it to her. But I feel she owes it to us to be in the right place all along the line. And I'm more concerned with what that symbol will do once they're in the White House than getting that symbol into the White House. - Well, hearing you talk, you're so energetic and you're so passionate and well-read. And then several interviews when I was doing research, you say, I'm a little bit lazy. I don't know why you say that. - I am passionate, but I have to say like, you know, the idea of giving a 30 minute speech and writing something, I'm just, I'm stomach-spy. I'm not a, I'm not someone that's comfortable as a speaker. - Well, not as a speak, but you do everything else. You shine the spotlight on so many things and give your voice to them. I mean, you don't have to give the speech to be, to have the energy. - Well, for instance, when I went to Lesvos, I mean, for me, it was important that I not go affiliated with any group that I went and wasn't talking about me, but Judge was there to be a conduit to let them speak, to let them explain who they are, to clarify, you know, all the different kinds of people that are there and why they're there and what they left behind and what they hope. So I can do that, you know? I didn't want it to be about me and what I was feeling and everything else, and I'm happy that, you know, some press was able to get it out there, but it was important that I didn't have an agenda because I was trying to learn too. And I hope that my curiosity continues, you know, that I'm open and into my golden years or grades or whatever they call them because I think that was the secret to all the people I know who have it, you want to get back to aging, who have aged in a way that I respect how to continue to be engaged, you know? And I think that's what we want, even with my ping-pong club, the whole point is connection, connection, connection. Communities where people can connect. So in that sense, I am very passionate and I think that with Bernie Sanders, you know, if he doesn't make a run for it, this will be, it'll be another 30 years before we find someone who has gotten so far without taking any corporate money because in the United States it just is impossible. He's, I mean, there's nobody else, you know? He's managed to do it his entire career. - You were talking about your own, what happened at the Oscars in '90. Did you have any comment about the Oscar, what's going on now that the diversity issues? - Well, the body of the Academy definitely needs be younger and more diverse. I mean, that's been true for years. And I think that if we all pay attention and, you know, nominate other people to come in, that it's definitely doable. - Do you think there should be a boycott? - Well, I don't know what a boycott's gonna do. You're not gonna notice, you know, you never notice he's not there. I mean, I think Chris Rock can do more with his humor and his perspective by going. I mean, I, you know, I don't know who it's gonna hurt to boycott the Oscars. I mean, I don't usually go, I'm going to the Stag Awards because I'm nominated and I'm presenting the immomorium part, but I'm not going, I never go to any of these things unless I am nominated. So, you know, I don't know about the boycott. I think that we need to change the makeup of the Academy. - If Eddie would've been in your group of friends that you were talking about, would it've been easier for her, you think, today? - Oh, yeah, yeah. I think so, absolutely. You know, because also my friends are really funny. (laughs) - Sure. - I think that's a sense of humor because what happens would always be downfalls all about life is all about how you frame it, right? You know, and very, how much of a sense of humor you have and what your perspective is and it's so easy to lose perspective, especially in that town. It's so easy to lose perspective. So, if Eddie had had, you know, my friends, they would've, you know, they would've said, "Oops, I've lightened up a little bit," or something, you know, "Miserated with her." Or, you know, "Let's go get high and dance our asses off her." (laughs) - Thank you so much, Mr. And this is so interesting. I'm so excited to see this project and thank you for your time. - You're so welcome, thank you. (upbeat music) - Thank you so much to Susan Surandon, her documentary, "Heady," directed by Alexandra Dean, will be out later this year in theaters and on television, winter 2016 or early 2017. And thank you for listening. Don't miss next week when I talk to Mark Ruffalo, director Tom McCarthy, and Boston Globe journalist, Mike Resendes, and Walter Robbie Robinson about the Oscar-nominated spotlight. And follow Pop Culture Confidential on Twitter @PODPopCulture or visit the website popcultureconfidential.com. This show was edited by Tom Hansen, theme music by Carl Bohr, and produced by Renee Vystet and myself. I'm Kristina Yarlink-Biro. Thank you so much. (upbeat music) Hello podcast fans, it is I, Bruce Vilanche. For over 25 years, I worked on the Academy Awards, so you didn't have to. In that time, I've seen and heard things that should not be seen or heard or certainly felt. And now, for the first time, I'm sharing all my behind the scenes stories and firsthand knowledge about the Oscars, the blood, the sweat, the tears, the slap, all the things you didn't see. So join me as I use humor and insight to break down the Oscar Awards of the past to explain how and why your favorite movie didn't win, why some actors and some directors had to fire their agents and how the whole process works or sometimes doesn't work. This is the Oscars, what were they thinking? Available wherever you get podcasts. [BLANK_AUDIO]