Pop Culture Confidential

Episode 8: The Geopolitics of Funny - Aasif Mandvi, The Daily Show to The Brink

As correspondent on The Daily Show or on HBOs hit series The Brink, Aasif Mandvi is tackling bigotry and Islamophobia one show at a time. In this portrait of his life and career he shares the immigrant journey that brought him eventually to New York, the importance of The Daily Show and the unique opportunity he has today to change the perception of Muslims with his Funny or Die parody series Halal In The Family. Since Jon Stewart steps down this week from The Daily Show, after hosting the Emmy-winning program for the last 17 years, we ask Aasif about what the show, and Jon Stewart, has meant to him personally and on a larger scale – geopolitics in comedy today. We also speak to Amy Mitchell of the Pew Research Center in Washington, Department of Journalism, on the impact and influence of The Daily Show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Duration:: 1h 0m
Broadcast on:: 05 Aug 2015
Audio Format:: other

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I take a look at his legacy. This is Pop Culture Confidential. Hi, I'm Kristina Yerling-Biro and you're listening to Pop Culture Confidential. On this episode, I'm honored to speak to actor, writer, comedian Asif Manvi, probably best known for his work as a correspondent on The Daily Show. We talk about his life as an immigrant from India via the UK to the US, surviving stereotyping as an actor in Hollywood, and what being the senior Muslim correspondent on The Daily Show really taught him about racism and the people in power, but first. On Thursday, August 6, John Stewart steps down as host of The Daily Show. For the past 17 years, Stewart has not only made fun of the news, but elevated political satire to a whole new level, a watchdog of both politicians and leaders, as well as the news organizations that cover them, be it Fox News or CNN. His political comedy legacy is felt everywhere today, from Colbert to John Oliver, Larry Wilmore and Asif Manvi, who will be speaking to in a bit. I wanted to know more about the real impact of The Daily Show in John Stewart, so I called Ms. Amy Mitchell, the director of journalism research for the Pew Research Center in Washington, DC. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm happy to join you. The Pew Research Center's project for Excellence in Journalism has conducted many studies on The Daily Show. You even followed the content of the show for a full year in 2007. When did you realize, "Hey, that show over on Comedy Central, we should be studying that?" Well, we did start finding from our survey work that people, especially young people, were considering The Daily Show as a source of news in their day-to-day lives, so as a way that they were immune-informed about what was happening in society. And so, as those numbers began to appear, we felt it was important to understand the ways that people are relying on the show and the degree to which it's a part of the flow of news and information in our country today. What were some of the more interesting findings of that research? One of the things that we found was that we looked again, as you said, at a year's worth of episodes and found about half of the content was devoted to government and politics. And that was about the same percentage of content that the cable shows devoted to this kind of news. So, you know, it very much is a part of what The Daily Show was focusing on. And one of the other things that we saw was that when we looked at the frame and the kind of information that was in that government and political content, we found an interesting nuance to it. And in many ways, it relied on its audience coming to the program, already having some knowledge about the day's events. So, in many cases, in other words, you wouldn't get the joke if you didn't know what was going on around government news and political news. You needed to be fairly educated about what was happening in government and in politics that particular day or, you know, in that time period. And when we've done more recent research around the kinds of people that rely on The Daily Show, we found that it does tend to be those that are more educated, 44% that have a college education or more, which is above the national average. So, 12% of web using adults overall rely on The Daily Show. They tend to be younger. The median age, we found to be 36, which compares to 52% for, for example, NBC Nightly News, 54% for The O'Reilly Show. It is about 62% male. And it also has an audience that is more liberal in their political values than the nation overall. How about in terms of political journalism in The Daily Show, I'm going to be interviewing, for example, correspondent Asif Manvi. He had a segment where he actually got a republic and a GOP official to step down because of racist comments. The Daily Show's election coverage is always really massive and talked about, do you think the show has had any real journalistic political power? Well, it's absolutely a part of the mix. And I think that's what these numbers suggest. As the ways that people are being informed have proliferated, the kinds of things that people think of as their news providers has expanded as well. And clearly, not just The Daily Show, but some of these other late night comedy oriented programs, Colbert at the time, and others are feeling that role as well in terms of being a place that people are thinking about the day's events, perhaps having a dialogue with somebody else as they're watching the show. But it is also about what's going on in our government and in society. So it's a way of having news and information be a part of one's entertainment activity. Thank you so much, Amy Mitchell of Pew Research. That was really interesting. Thanks. Thank you. For more now on the South Park controversy, we are joined by our senior Islamic correspondent, Asif Manvi. Asif. What do you make of the South Park controversy? Well, I mean, what am I, John? Every Muslim in the world. I mean, I represent all Muslims. Come on. Well, in this building, actually, I mean, for you, what a depiction of Muhammad? In some form, upset you. John, look, I'm a pretty liberal Muslim, meaning during Ramadan, every now and then, I'll sneak a diet cook before sundown. But, yes, it would make me uncomfortable, and I can understand people being upset about it. Even though it's a cartoon. Yes. But here's what's more upsetting, someone in the name of a faith that I believe in threatening another person for doing it. Well, that's, what? Why is that? Why do you think that's so? Well, A, it's just so 12th century, and B, I don't like having to walk around wearing this suit. Wow. You had to have a special suit made? No, it's a Tommy Hilfiger, but I, I, I had to buy it. Thank you very much. Asif Manvi, everybody. Asif Manvi. So. I'm very honored to speak to my guest, who I just can't figure out how he has time for everything he's doing. He's writing, plus producing, plus acting, and plus seemingly totally plugged into geopolitics and being hilarious all at once. Asif Manvi was born in India, he's a double immigrant, raised in the UK, and moved as a teenager to Tampa, Florida. A classically trained actor, he's been on Broadway, done one man shows, had roles in movies like Spider-Man 2 and TV series Oz, Sleeper Cell, Sopranos, to name a few. He's written and spoken honestly and sharply about the totally stereotypical experience it is for the South Asian actors in the industry today. His critically acclaimed book, No Lands Man, is about his life as an immigrant, an actor, and his work is a correspondent on The Daily Show for the past 10 years now. There, he is the senior Muslim correspondent, the senior foreign correspondent, the senior terror analyst, et cetera. His segments have been incredibly eye-opening, satirizing the American establishment from an outsider's perspective, often exposing Islamophobia and racism. In a 2013 Daily Show segment, Asif Manvi's interview with Don Yelton led to Yelton's resignation from the North Carolina Republican Party Office after some outrageously racist remarks. Lately, Asif Manvi has been busy with his own web series Halal and the Family on Funny or Die. It's a parody of an all-American family sitcom with a Muslim theme. And, he is a writer and actor on HBO's new hit series The Brink, starring himself, Tim Robbins, and Jack Black, and it just got picked up for a season two. Asif Manvi described the show as "Dr. Strange Love Meets Veep," a show about a military coup in Pakistan that leads to American intervention in the region. Asif Manvi, thank you so much for being here. I mean, wow, do you get any sleep with this schedule? Wow, that whole introduction actually makes me sound far busier than I actually think I am, so I appreciate that. It's surprising that I wake up so late. But it is all true, everything I said, right? So it's not. It's just in different times. Yeah, you know, I mean, look, I, yes, it's all true and I guess, you know, I work with a lot of terrific people. I want to go back to the beginning of your life, really, because so much of your career and comedy and the daily show segments is informed by your life as an immigrant, your parents, your religious background, and it's such a important part of your work. So I'd like to get started there. You were born in India, but you moved to the UK. Why? It was all my decision. A one-year-old, I was like, "I am moving to the UK now." My parents just did whatever I told them to do. No, but my dad got a job in the UK and it was, you know, it was the '60s and there was a lot of the immigration from India, from the subcontinent to England, and my dad was part of that wave of immigrants that came to the UK. And so I ended up being raised in the north of England. I mean, that was my early childhood. What do you remember of your early childhood being an immigrant, so to speak? Do you remember being other? Sure. Yeah. I grew up in the '70s in England, and, you know, I was there until I was about 16. And so definitely, I mean, it shaped me in a way. You know, I think that they were my formative years. And so, you know, I often describe myself as a turducken, which is a, I don't know if you guys are aware of this, but like in America, at least there's a turkey that's stuck through the deck with stuff for the chicken, you know, and it's a very American, only Americans eat that kind of stuff, believe me. So I described myself as sort of a weird way as a turducken, like, you know, I'm an American wrapped in a little English school boy wrapped in an Indian, you know. And that is kind of how I ended up growing up, like it was, they always felt like there's this little English school boy inside of me, you know, this kind of kid who went to boarding school. And also, like being brown in England, you know, being a South Asian at that time, you know, dealing with the racism and the bullying and all that stuff that happened being a brown kid in that environment. So did there was a lot of bullying? Yeah. So I think that when, yeah, as a South Asian kid, you know, as an Indian immigrant, I dealt with a lot of racial stuff growing up, you know, I went to, you know, my parents sent me to this very, this excellent boarding school educational wise, you know, but it was also mostly white and it was, you know, there was definitely a lot of racial stuff that I dealt with in terms of. So I think that my relationship probably even to acting and to wanting to perform and to want to get on stage and to do, to be seen in that way was probably a reaction in some ways to being marginalized in the culture in some way, you know. And then at 16, your family moved to Florida. What was that like? Well, Florida was a whole different place, right? So Florida, I mean, in every way, like I came from the north of England to this, you know, the life of son and, you know, high school in America, which suddenly felt like a completely different world and for one thing, there were, you know, girls in my school and I came from all boys, like sort of British boarding school, you know. And suddenly there were, you know, we were sort of, there was a commencement of freedom and girls everywhere and it was, you know, I always wanted to live in America because I just, I grew up on American pop culture, you know. And so for me, it was, you know, it was a way out of my sort of Northern English boarding school, kind of, you know, life to come to America and sort of, I was, I was game for it. I was sort of like, yeah, this is going to be where I get to explore, you know, I was doing, I think it was, I was doing theater and stuff when I was in, in the UK as well as a kid, but I, but then when I came to America, it really sort of took off for me because I got to perform in high school and stuff, like in my, in my school in England, there was no real drama theater program or acting, you know, it was all extracurricular. And so, you know, in America, again, like, you know, it was like, I got to sort of be doing drama and writing, and my writing took off and I think, you know, there was a lot of, I was, I was really excited about Tampa and, you know, not, I'm not now, but that's not what this guy here I was. Yeah. But so did it, it turned, I mean, it fulfilled what you were thinking it would. I mean, the sort of vision of the American opens, it was, was it as good as you thought? I mean, you didn't experience the racism or anything that you did in England? Well, you know, there's a different kind of racism in America and I've talked about this in my book, actually, which is in England, you know, there's this kind of the racism exists in the sense that like, you know, matter how long you live in England or are British or whatever you as long as you are not British quote unquote, you will always be considered an outsider, you know, and you will never be considered truly British, you know, English or whatever, like you'll always be an immigrant and, and America is a land of immigrants and America is the opposite where you come here and people are like, oh, where are you from? That doesn't matter. Now you're in America. And so there's a, there's a kind of disregard or a disinterest in your ethnic and cultural background in, in, in really getting to know what that difference is, you know, like everybody gets sort of baked into the same American pie, you know, and, and that's what you're expected to do. You just sort of pledge allegiance to the flag and, and now you're in America. And you know, and so there's a, there's a kind of willful ignorance about other cultures and other places that I think everyone in the world is aware of except Americans sometimes. European racism, right, has much more to do with kind of like, we are true and you are not, you know, where the true, true bloods and you are, you know, and America is kind of like, America kind of disregards all of that and you won't, you know, like I said, you end up being sort of put into this melting pot, but then there's a, there's a downside to that as well, which is that you have to reengage at some point with your cultural and ethnic difference. And you know, like everything gets sort of like labeled as like, if you are Indian, you are Indian American, you know, you are Indian Korean, I mean, sorry, so American, Korean American, you know, you are Chinese American, you know, that kind of thing. So in that, and, and as great as that is, there's also a tendency to sort of disregard the, the, the, the difference, you know, you've written and spoken very honestly and sharply just regarding this about your acting career later and, and, and that you were very, it was a very stereotypical ride for you where you played Doctor on CSI and a Doctor on Oz and on Sopranos and, and, and was that, um, did that sort of break you? Did you, did you feel disillusioned? Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean, the, the business of being an actor is, you know, it's, it's in the, the, the business of show businesses is on some level, like openly prejudiced and sexist. You know what I mean? Mm hmm. In, in that you can get away with telling someone like, we actually want a white person for this. You know, which you couldn't in any other profession, really, you know, um, so, uh, you know, or, or we don't see you as the hero, we see you as, you know, the cab driver, you know, because you're Indian and, you know, so, um, there's a kind of weird, like, art reflecting life, but then also, uh, influencing, uh, life, you know, um, because people watch it and so then it, so then forms the way we think about people. So I think that, you know, the roles I was getting offered when I first met in New York, uh, were mostly sort of, you know, stereotypical, like, you know, doing the accent and wobbling the head and being, then playing into an Indian stereotype of what Americans thought Indians were, or, you know, the Swedish actors are often playing the Russians by, you know, here. Right. Exactly. And that's what happens. And you know, like, yeah, if you have any kind of, you know, it's your, your, your name is Boris at all, you know, or anything like that, you end up, you know, playing sort of like some Eastern European bad guy, you know, um, and so these kind of stereotypes exist in show business and they exist in Hollywood, um, you know, so I, I got most of my work actually the most interesting work I ended up with was on stage because it was, it was where I could break free of those sort of like ethnic stereotypes and kind of do more interesting work. And so really, and that was good for me in a way, because I think being an actor on stage actually made me a better actor. And so I think, you know, when I got to, and it's probably why I went to New York and said LA originally, you know, because LA never seemed like a place that was going to give me opportunity at that time, because I came out to LA and I would just sit around and you'd really get like a part on television or something where I'd just play like, you know, one line as a, you know, waiter or whatever, like, but, but in New York, I could actually do plays and actually, you know, do Shakespeare and was doing legitimate roles because, you know, also, also like Shakespeare is a place where you can get away with like non-traditional casting, because nobody knows what's going on anyway. So it's kind of like everyone's just like, I guess, sure, yeah, why not? You know, you know, actor is black and his mother is white and it's what we accept it because we don't understand what anybody's saying. Has anything got better, you think, the past years as you've been working in terms of ethnic stereotypes or is it just the same? No, I think it's gotten better. I think that we see definitely more diversity on television now and Hollywood than ever in its history, you know? There's definitely more, you know, brown people, for lack of a better word, on television today than there ever have been, yet we still, you know, we, other than like, in maybe a couple of examples like Mindy Caling or something, we don't really see like, um, uh, heroes, you know, uh, that are non-caucasian. We don't see the driving narratives in film and television in Hollywood is still, um, uh, the point of view is still the lens of the white Caucasian nap, you know? And that is still true, uh, and that's changing in terms of like, we have more female driven shows now, but still it's like, still white people are the kind of, are the norm, right? The else is still considered like, you know, um, adjacent to that. So, uh, you know, it's still that like, uh, you know, the story has to be seen through a white person. It has to be through the perspective of a white person. Otherwise, you know, how will Americans relate to it if it's not white people that are experiencing it, you know? That kind of, uh, it's so good. Right. That would be possible. Right. There's no way. Like, you know, like, like I just can't relate to anybody who is a different ethnicity and like, well, they just don't feel the same things I feel, you know? But, um, so in 2006, you got called for an audition to The Daily Show and, and it seems like you got that job on the spot. Did you, you were this classically trained actor? Did you know you were funny? Well, I'd always done comedy actually, uh, as well as dramatic stuff, but, you know, I, I worked at Disney and Jim studios when I was, um, right out of college and I did improv comedy there, you know, and, and so I don't, and I was in the sketch comedy group in, uh, in New York, um, in the, you know, late nineties. And so like I've always done comedy and even given the hand that stand up, you know, for a while to where it was a departure was I had never done, uh, political satire before. I never focused on news and fact, satirical comedy in that way, uh, but the comedy part of it, I, I had been doing for a long time. What was the first segment you did? Do you remember? The first segment I ever did on the day, so actually, yeah, I actually, I mean, it changed my life. Like it was, it was, uh, this piece that I did, uh, in 2006 about, uh, the Lebanon, uh, Israel war that was going on. It was all about like, um, you know, the, the stories, it was all about the birth pangs of democracy in the Middle East and, you know, all the story. It was a very, very powerful, um, sort of, um, uh, it was, it was, it was pointed to say the least and it was actually a line in there about 9/11, um, at the end of it. And nobody made fun of September 11th and, and, and not, and, and we weren't making fun of September 11th, but we were, we were pointing out the hypocrisy of like how when, um, people in the Middle East react, uh, to their houses being bombed, they're supposed to just accept this as the birth pangs of democracy, you know, this is what happens, you know, you're supposed to accept these, supposed to like, you know, roll with it and the idea being that like in the, you know, in my, in my response, I think John was like in the same way that Americans just rolled with it when September 11th happened, they just accepted it as part of what was going on in the world, you know, and this kind of idea that the, the pointing out of that hypocrisy and, and attitude brought a audible sort of gasp from the audience. Um, and, um, some people applauded, some people gasped, and I think it was like one of the most powerful sort of moments for me on the daily show, and I think that, that changed, uh, my life in a way, because I, I sort of saw that like, oh, there's a platform here to be able to say something that, um, that I've never gotten to say before. Were there big reactions after the show aired? Uh, well, the reactions were mostly positive, we'd thank God, uh, you know, there was an article in the LA Times, which basically, and, and so because the reactions mostly had to do with like, who's the non-caucasian guy on the daily show, like I was the first non-white correspondent on the daily show, yeah, so it was like that thing of like, you know, wait, there was a non-white guy on the daily show, like, you know, and so, um, it was, uh, that was, there was a big article in the LA Times the next day about like, uh, written by, uh, a South Asian journalist, who was basically like, who's this, uh, brown guy on the daily show, you know? Uh, so that was interesting, and, and that also was, uh, you know, it was, it was like, oh, there was something happening here that was, um, that was bigger than just me being on the daily show, me getting a job, you know? What does the daily show taught you about people in powerful positions around the world? Um, that, you know, they don't really have all the answers, and they don't really know much more than we do. Um, and that, um, they are, you know, that, that, that, you know, I mean, look, it's easy to become incredibly cynical after you work at the daily show for nine years, because you end up talking to politicians who are mostly just, uh, towing the party line, and, you know, there's very little sort of individual thought that goes on, and people who do have radical ideas, people who do have, like, actual, like, interesting, radical ideas get, um, pushed down or pushed away or pushed aside because they don't fit into the, um, uh, larger narratives and the larger sort of, um, investments of money and power and all of these things that, that run countries, you know, that it's not, it's not ideas that run, that run government. It is money and power that runs government, you know, um, the best idea doesn't win. Kind of depressing realizations. Yeah, it is, you know, and it's definitely, you know, it's, it's, it's who has the most money and who has the most influence and who can do the best marketing campaign and who can sell you the best, uh, who can sell it the best, you know. It's not really about who has the best idea ever. Uh, how do these pieces work? Um, do you do when you call and, and, and book a guest for one of your segments? Do they know about The Daily Show? Did they know why you were coming? Uh, yeah, they know, we never hide the fact that we're with The Daily Show and that we're a comedy show. Often they know about us and they, you know, either they have never heard of The Daily Show, which is, which is more, more rare, you know, uh, but there are people, you know, who have never heard of The Daily Show or don't watch it and don't aren't familiar with it. And then they're actually, you know, I think they're really talking to a news organization or they are totally, uh, familiar with us and want to be part of it. And you know, this is the thing is that like, even if you, you know, I don't know if it's a sad reality or what it means, but like the reality is that if you, you know, people want to get on television and if that means that they're going to get made fun of, that's okay. As long as they can, they can sort of feel like they get their point across, you know? So like often the people that we end up talking to, even though they know that on some level, we're going to make fun of them, it's worth it to them, clearly, to get come on the show and speak their point of view, you know, sometimes you're talking to people who no one else is talking to. So that's kind of, you know, a favor as well. They're not getting a lot of media attention, but they want to be on television and they want to say the thing that they pass and the more passionate people are about what they believe, the more it works for us on the show because, you know, the last thing, the worse people are to talk to our politicians, because they actually are just going to stay on their talking points, you know, whereas you want real people who are actually going to speak from their passion, you know, and those are the moments when you get off the record kind of things. People just say things because they are, you know, what do they believe? Because, I mean, you've talked about this a lot and it's basically TV history, now your segment on the North Carolina Republican who had to step down. Let me tell you something. You don't look like me, but I think I've treated you the same as everybody else. Right. Matter of fact, one of my best friends is black. It's the one of your best friends. What about those friends? Is black. Yes. And there's more. When I was a young man, you didn't call a black, a black. You called them a nigra. I had a picture one time of Obama sitting on the stump as a witch doctor and I posted that on Facebook. I was making fun of my white half of Obama, not the black half, and now you have a black person using the term this and it's okay for them to do it. You know that we can hear you, right? Yeah. He knew what that you, who you were and what the show was and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he didn't, the, the, the, the crazy thing about that interview was that even after he didn't believe he was being racist, he felt that he was speaking what other people are thinking. See, it's a thinking like Donald Trump right now. He said Trump is out there and what, what he thinks, he's saying all the stuff about Mexicans and whatever, you know, and he thinks that he's saying what people are too afraid to say. Like he's thinking like, I'm the truth speaker here. So and, and, and on some level, he is because there are certain people who do believe what he believes. So he's kind of galvanizing this kind of like, you know, rape wing sort of racist sort of, you know, yeah, those Mexicans are rapists. And the same thing was true with this guy from North Carolina, right? He was actually speaking this thing that he thought, well, we're all thinking this. And you know, it backfired on him and when it backfired on him and primarily it backfired on him because not because people, the GOP said, oh, you're wrong. I think what they said was you can't say that on television. Right. And we are, you know, the reason he got fired was not because of like, that is wrong and no one should believe that or say that. It was that you shouldn't say that out loud on television and you're undermining our cause because we are out trying to reach out to African American voters in your county and trying to get them to vote Republican and then you're coming on TV and saying this. So you're actually hurting the cause. And so that's why he ended up getting fired because he became a liability to them in that way, not because what he said is wrong, you know, so. And so like, I think, and the famous, you know, but you know, so he said this much and even after they fired him, he was like, he doubled down. He said, you know, look, they're all proceeds and they, he was like, they just don't accept the fact that the tent is big enough to include in people like me, you know, like. So it was just kind of this crazy thing where he, I don't think he ever really understood why he was being thought of as being racist when in his mind, he was like, I'm just telling the truth. I'm just telling, I'm saying what a lot of people think, you know, I read that you said at one point in an interview that for most Americans when they hear the word Muslim, it's like hearing the word cancer. Is it still like that, you think? I think, yeah, I think there's a big percentage of people in this country who, who can't separate Muslim from terrorists, you know. And so it does become something that people have an emotional reaction to, you know, and that's, you know, I think that gets galvanized and, and sort of, you know, inflamed by the media and by politicians as they need it to be, you know, it becomes a tool that they can use, you know. Has anything gotten better? I actually think it's gotten worse because I think that after 9/11, you had this sort of questioning going on. You had this sense of like, you know, on September 12th, or even October 12th, 2002, you know, you had this sort of questioning going on of like, of like, who are Muslims, because I don't think a lot of Americans really had even knew what a Muslim was or what they believe or any, you know, and they were like, well, you know, why did this happen? What happened? You know, what is, I think there was a lot of people were buying the Quran and they were reading it. Now they're buying the Quran and they're burning it, which is very different, you know. What happened? But at least they're buying it, which I think is that that's ultimately good. But I mean, what has happened to make it worse, you think? I think what's happened is that the media and the government, well, not all, not the government, I should say media and politicians have realized that Islamophobia and the fear of Muslims and that using that is a great way to fight people and to, you know, make people afraid. It's very, it's also is a way, if you're worried about, if you're worried about Muslims and terrorists and all that, then you don't have to think about the economy. You don't have to think about gun control, you know, you don't have to think about police violence in this country, like, with all these things, you get distracted, you're distracting from all that. But we have white guys going and shooting every week. Right, right, but like, that's the crazy thing, right? Like more white people, more Americans have shot other Americans than any member of ISIS or al-Qaeda. Right? Yet, we spend an older amount of money to fight terrorists and, you know, obviously part of that is economics, which is that those people over there are potentially threatening oil, you know, and our economic interests in that part of the world. So that becomes our overriding interest, and it's much, but you can, you know, as long as the Americans aren't going to go fight because there's oil over there or, you know, they're going to, because those people are evil, that's, you know, that's what has to be the narrative, right? Like, you're going to fight people because they think they're evil and they're going to get you and they're going to, you know, they're not because you have money, you know, you can't get, you know, so any war I fought using those emotional pressure points, right? So, you know, you can't, but, you know, you try to, like, get gun control and you, you know, you'll see how much resistance there is in this country, even after children have been shot in the school, you still don't have, you know, real gun, gun control in this country. And that's the crazy thing, is it like we don't see the terrorism that is right under our nose because we're so worried and media and politicians are complicit in this idea that, like, terrorism only exists over there and those people are the people to be afraid of those towel heads and muslims and, you know, ARabs and that's those are the people that we have to be afraid of. Not the white guy that's going to walk into your school and shoot, you know, 15 children in the head, right? So, and also there's this whole idea that, like, you know, that when white people do things, so when, you know, white Americans commit crimes, it's an anomaly, right? Like, in other words, like, most white people are good. Right, and so, and this is just some, like, abnormality, you know, this is just like a weird thing, but, like, what that doesn't, the other side of it, it's like, when muslims do something, it's a, it's a, it's a legitimization of their inherent evilness, right? So, it's like, oh, this person did something, it's not that they're all bad, they're all evil. Everyone's in on it. Yeah. Yeah, like, if black people do something, it's because they're all inherently criminals, or white feeders, or whatever it is, you know? And so, therefore, when the few, you know, so, but white people, they're good, it is just like some bad apples, you know? Right, right. How difficult is it to do comedy about religion? Well, I mean, you know, I, you know, I mean, how hard is it to do comedy about religion? It depends on religion, you know? I've never gotten threats in that way, no, I mean, I've never, I mean, I think probably because I speak about this stuff, you know, one of the things I've been able to do on the daily show is that I have been able to sit on that fence between cultures. So, you know, I can talk about America as an outsider and as an insider at the same time, you know? But the places where I've gotten the most pushback is whenever, like, for example, more like on Twitter or social media, if I talk about gun control, or if I talk about Israel Palestine, those two issues create the most vehement, ferocious responses from people. You know? Not, not the stuff that I do on the daily show. Tell me about halal in the family, which is a very interesting project, which started as a crowdsourcing project, right? And what was the, what was the idea behind it? Well, it actually originally started as a sketch on the daily show that we did based on something that Katie Couric said about how that we do what Muslims, this is before Bill Cosby got into office trouble, but it was sort of said, like, the middle of what American Muslims needed was their own Cosby show type show, you know, and to change the perception of American Muslims in the same way that the Cosby show in the 80s changed the perceptions of African Americans. So, you know, there was that kind of, that we took that, I should say, and because we're a comedy show and we do what we do, we took that literally and created this sort of parody sitcom of American Muslims, you know, acting completely white or completely like all Americans and trying not to scare the white people and, you know, and that parody that was done on the daily show, sort of appeared on the daily show and then nothing happened to it in a few years later I was approached to create something in the area of social good or to say something about it's fun for me if I wanted to. It was nice to have a real American in the neighborhood to hang out with. Why don't you step for dinner, Wally, we're having Austin's favorite deep fried pork chop with bacon sauce? Oh, yeah. Well, that's not exactly on my diet. Besides, I can't stay anyway, I'm volunteering at my mosque's food bank tonight. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you said mosque. I did. You know the Darl Isla mosque over on Main Street? Yeah, well, enjoy your mosque, Wally, that's your real name. Actually, that's my nickname, always felt Wally was a little bit too formal. Flaw. It was nice meeting you. Okay, I can't believe that guy lied to me. What are you talking about? Well, he never said he was a Muslim. Did he say he wasn't a Muslim? No, but he's white. Austin, what has that got to do with it? Out of all the religions out there, why would he choose Islam? I mean, Mormons are very popular with white people right now. What do you think he's hiding? Maybe he's spying on us. We took that format and created four or five-minute episodes that basically deal with Islamophobia. But we went much harder into the idea that, like, we worked with a lot of organizations, like, you know, organizations who did a fighting Islamophobia and Pakistan bigotry in the US, and we sort of got their feedback on what are the issues that they're dealing with. And we took those issues and we sort of folded them into a narrative, a parody of this sitcom parody. So, you know, as much as we are funny and entertaining, it is also like a message in there about racism and anti-Muslim bigotry and stuff. So we kind of wanted to get that message across, but using this format of a parody sitcom. It's been very successful, like, we've gotten, like, I don't know, 55 million media hits or whatever, and, like, you know, tens of thousands of people have watched the episodes now. And I think it's, you know, what was most -- and we did crowd -- like you said, we did crowdsource it to get some of the funding to shoot these episodes. And so, what's been really interesting for me about it is that, like, how much people have responded and said, like, you know, we need this, we have been waiting for someone to talk about these issues. And to use satire and to use comedy and to talk about these issues is very, you know, very satisfying, especially for -- and not just, I think, actually, for American Muslims, but, like, I think for -- because as much as it deals with racism and bigotry towards American Muslims, it deals with racism and bigotry in general, you know? And so, I think that -- I'm very proud of it. Congratulations on Season 2 of "The Brink" on HBO, where you play Rafiq, he's a driver for the U.S. embassy in Islamabad, and you're also a writer on the show. Tell me a little bit about Rafiq and how you wrote him. Were you integral in writing your own character as well, or did you come on, and he was already there? I didn't create the character. I auditioned as an actor on the show when it was a pilot, and then did the pilot episode, and then was brought on as a writer subsequently after the pilot had already been shot, and we got picked up to Season 1, the show on a Roberta Benedict, and Jay Roach called me and said, "Hey, you know, we would love for you to come into the writer's room and help write the season." And so, it was really exciting for me, you know? What's going on in Pakistan? Smells like a coup d'état. Ain't better information than we have on the streets. Rafiq! We're going on a mission. Boom. Nothing to worry about, that's to inform you that I'm an employee of the U.S. State Department entitled to all diplomatic privileges of the -- or not. Tell me, let's just take a breath here and tuck our tongue a little cartridge back into our pants. Bullsey. Or a suicidal. I always get those two things confused. What's wrong? Just fine with the mint. Two hundred million dollars. That's a lot of money, isn't it? Well, we can print as much of that shit as we want. What do I get feeling you're about to do something really stupid? So, I got to, like, be in the writer's room and also, like, obviously influence the character of Rafiq, but also write the story in a way that, you know, because I mean, the first season takes place a lot in Pakistan and deals with the geopolitics of that part of the world and so to, like, bring whatever I knew from my work on the Daily Show and my work just as a writer and to that world, you know, it's great. On Thursday, we have Mr. Stewart leaving his position on the Daily Show. What has he meant to you, John Stewart? Well, you know, look, there are huge inflection points in a person's career and life and the Daily Show was one of the biggest for me, you know, like, sort of -- it changed my life. And so, and John, you know, gave me a shot and I was not -- I didn't come into that job as being the kind of pedigree that they would normally look for in a Daily Show correspondent and that I didn't come from a traditional sort of stand-up comedy or comedy background. I was an actor and John gave me, you know, he was the guy that, like, basically hired me and gave me a shot and allowed me a voice on that show and allowed me to talk about things that I felt like I wanted to talk about as well. So, you know, it was -- it's been a huge, you know, I think it would be -- him leaving would be a huge loss for the world of political satire, in spite, no matter who -- no matter who -- how successful Trevor is, John still almost will be a huge loss. And he will be a huge loss to me personally because he kind of gave me a place in which to hone my voice in some way and -- and can say things and talk about things that I cared about and not play into the stereotypes or the typical kind of, you know, Hollywood reductiveness of what you end up playing, which I was talking about earlier, but, like, actually, an expansive space where I could talk about things and actually using comedy and satire and pointing out hypocrisy actually point to those things that were actually racist and reductive and hypocritical and all that stuff. So, for me, he, you know, was sort of, like, in a weird way, you know, gave me the biggest career opportunity of my life, you know, and also one of the most important jobs that I've ever had is, you know, because he said to me once, when I first started the Daily Show, I remember him saying -- I said to him, you know, I was like, actors don't usually get offices, but I had an office for the first time in the Daily Show. And I said, you know, actors don't usually get offices, they get trailers. And so, it's kind of new and really exciting in a weird way for me to actually show up in an office in a weird way. Most people would not feel that way, but for me, because I'd never had an office before. And he said -- and he said, well, if that's because you're not just an actor anymore, you're now a creative force. And that, you know, was a really powerful -- he said it, you know, while we were walking from the Fair Line to lunch to, you know, but, like, in that moment, I was like, oh, he just said something to me that I think I should carry with me, you know. And so, you know, I think he gave me that opportunity, and I'll be forever grateful to him for that. And his legacy, how would you describe that? Well, I think he shaped -- he helped us see the news through a lens that no one else was willing to do, you know, no one else had given us this framework with which to look at the news. And I think we're forever culturally changed by it, that, you know, this idea of pointing out the absurdity and the hypocrisy and challenging the media and of politicians, you know, in a way, the satire has always done but had not done in many, many decades, I think, you know. And so, we had lost sort of the art of satire. We had banished the court jester, and John allowed the court jester to come back in, you know, if you is the truth teller, you know, the clown is always the truth teller in every one of Shakespeare's plays, so, you know. And so that was -- it was a reinvention of that character. And I think it allowed us culturally to say, yes, that is the lens that we should be criticizing these people through, and we should be looking at them and asking those questions and holding their hands to the fire, you know. And I think satirical news comedy was forever changed once he, you know, took on at the daily show, took on his role there. And I think just in the same way, and that one he leaves, I think the world of satirical comedy will never -- he'll never go back. He's created a sort of a standard now that you have to meet, you know. So now what happens is, like I think the world of satirical comedy will open up in the same way that Carson, Johnny Carson left the world of late night television so that it opened up. But nobody could beat John Stewart at his own game, you know. He's fostered these talents, I mean, yourself and John Oliver, and all these people that have, you know, come that they're -- I know what you're saying, that he changed the standard. Right. Now there's a different standard that you have to reach. I mean, you know, John Oliver's a perfect example of sort of, you know, the offspring of the daily show. John Oliver wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the daily show, you know. So neither would Stephen Colbert, neither would, you know, Larry, neither would Steve Carrell, you know. Neither would I. Right. Well, in late September, Trevor Noah's going to try to carry on the mantle or do his own thing. And he's bringing on some producers, I understand. Are you coming back? I'm, you know, I'm going to continue in the capacity that I have been in for the last couple of years, which is really mostly as a sort of contributor coming in part-time, like whenever I have time or they need me, I'm not going to go back to being a full-time correspondent of the daily show. But I will be popping in now and then, you know. And are there any major changes you know of that you can talk about or bet Trevor's bringing to the show? You know, I don't know. I mean, other than the fact that Trevor is going to be hosting the show, like that's the biggest change, I think, and I think it'll be totally, it will be his or his voice, you know. I think John, what was great about the daily show was that it was John's voice and it was what John wanted to talk about and the stories that we covered were John wanted to cover. So now we're going to have a different host and he's going to talk about things. You know, one thing I do feel like might happen is that because Trevor is not American and he's South African, that there will be a more international approach to the daily show, you know. So we'll go from like, you know, CNN, domestic to CNN, international, you know. The Daily Show, domestic, Daily Show, international and you know, I think that it might have a more global conversation about things in the way that actually John Oliver does, you know. Because John Oliver is not American because he's British, he covers FIFA and he covers Indian elections in a way that the Daily Show on a regular nightly basis does not. So maybe with Trevor there, there will be a more global approach and that might be interesting and new. So hopefully, yeah. Well, before I let you go, I want to ask you just about one more person because John is leaving, but I'm sure, I mean, he'll still be doing amazing things, but someone who actually left us or left us, Omar Sharif, who I know was important to you, you wrote and read, you met him once, right? What did he mean to you? Well, when I say I met him, I shouldn't, we didn't sit down and have coffee. It was more like I was working as a waiter and I had a momentary conversation with him about, you know, Omar Sharif for me was the first, you know, I'm going all the way back to my childhood and I write about this in my book, No Lands Man, where, you know, I sort of grew up, like I said, I grew up in American pop culture and American television where all of the heroes that I watched on television were white, you know, the fawns and, you know, white movies and whatever, like television, all white, white guys and Omar Sharif was the first non-white guy that I saw in a movie and there was a Hollywood movie that wasn't a Bollywood movie, you know, and I thought to myself, wow, this is something, you know, because I at that time wanted to be an actor and there seemed to be no space in the culture for me unless I wanted to go to India, you know, and so, like when I saw Omar Sharif, I was like, there's a brown man and he's playing a man, a gentleman, like he's not playing like a dung-a-din or, you know, you would see like servants or slaves or, you know, Indians, you know, carrying water on their head or whatever, you know, and so, but this was a gentleman, he was like playing a hero, he was playing, you know, and Dr. Shavado and Robert Subarabia, you know, like those in those movies I was like, oh, this guy is a man of stature and, you know, and it sort of, for me, as a little brown kid in England thinking dreaming of being an actor in Hollywood, like it gave me a possibility, it gave me an inspiration, it gave me like, oh, there's this guy out there and as long as he's out there, then there's a chance that there can be another one, you know, so it sort of, in that way, you know, as a cultural icon and instead of an image in the culture, he was, he's loomed large for me, you know, and then I got to meet him as a cater waiter in New York when I was waiting tables and he was attending a banquet and then I went up and spoke to him very briefly and so that, you know, but you have to read the book to find out what he said. What did he say to you? I said, Dr. Shavado, it changed my life and he said, really, mine too, you know, and so it was, you know, it was a nice little moment that, you know, obviously, you know, yeah, it meant a lot to me because I, you know, I was talking to somebody who was sort of like a cultural father figure in a way, you know. Well, thank you so much. This was so interesting and I cannot wait for season two and everything else you're going to do and hopefully more halal in the family and thank you for taking your time with me. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much, Asif Manvi and congratulations for getting the brink renewed for second season on HBO. We'll look forward to that and thank you everyone for listening to this edition of Pop Culture Confidential. The show is on Facebook, on Twitter, on Instagram, or you can follow me, Christina Yerling-Biro. And this show was edited by Tom Hanson, the music by Colbour, produced by Renee Vitistet, and myself. I'm Christina Yerling-Biro. Until next time. Hello, podcast fans. It is I, Bruce Valanche. For over 25 years, I worked on the Academy Awards, so you didn't have to. In that time, I've seen and heard things that should not be seen or heard or certainly felt. And now, for the first time, I'm sharing all my behind the scenes stories and firsthand knowledge about the Oscars, the blood, the sweat, the tears, the slap, all the things you didn't see. So join me as I use humor and insight to break down the Oscar Awards of the past to explain how and why your favorite movie didn't win, why some actors and some directors had to fire their agents, and how the whole process works or sometimes doesn't work. This is the Oscars. What were they thinking? Available wherever you get podcasts. [BLANK_AUDIO]