Pop Culture Confidential

Episode 3: The Art of Game of Thrones and the Swede who conquered television.

Guests: Rob Feng & Henrik Bastin Whether it’s from Westeros or Stockholm, all roads can lead to Hollywood. In this episode we discuss Game of Thrones, The Comedians, Bosch and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Duration:: 31m
Broadcast on:: 15 May 2015
Audio Format:: other

Guests: Rob Feng & Henrik Bastin Whether it’s from Westeros or Stockholm, all roads can lead to Hollywood. In this episode we discuss Game of Thrones, The Comedians, Bosch and much more.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hi, I'm Kristina Yarlink-Biro and on this episode I interview the executive producer who made Michael Connolly's iconic Bosch into an Amazon TV series. He got Billy Crystal, Larry Charles and Josh Gad together for the comedians on FX and has more shows on air and in the pipeline. And as several U.S. friends have pointed out, did you know he was Swedish? I do. I interview executive producer Hamdrik Bastin on what it's like to go from the Swedish industry to working in Hollywood. But first, picture a map, three-dimensional models of Westeros, fortresses and cities rising from the ground. The buildings made from thousands of da Vinci-like gears and springs. Okay, wait, this is what I'm going to ask you to do. Press pause and go to our web page, popcultureconfidential.com. Look at the opening sequence of Game of Thrones because we're about to take a pop culture dive right into it. Ready? I'm really happy to be joined by art director Rob Feng. Rob is directed award winning commercials for Apple and Microsoft. He won the Cinema Eye Honor Award for his work on Errol Morris's feature film tabloid and he also served as creative consultant on 20th Century Fox video game division. Together with Oscar winner and creative director Angus Wall, who himself won for editing on the social network and The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, in their team created and won an Emmy award in 2011 for their spectacular work on the title sequence for HBO's Game of Thrones. I had heard that the first idea for the title sequence actually was presented to them by the series creators themselves, Dan Weiss and David Benioff. A raven flies from King's Landing to Winterfell. I asked Rob Feng if this was true. Yes, you're totally right. That was months before I even was on the project and that kind of went a certain path. It's like any creative project. It has many lives and iterations before it lands on something. Well, I understand that Benioff was super happy with your work because he later said that his biggest contribution was getting out of your way. Those guys are so cool. I mean, it's so great that the show's done so well. They're great people and it's awesome to see it, see it continue to grow. Tell me how you ended up in this project. Well, I was at a company working on something else and I was working with Errol Morris on a documentary. I was helping him with the documentary I was working on and they came to me with the project and when it first existed and the first initial idea, it was really just a map a little bit more like Lord of the Rings. I think that was the main reference or something like a Harry Potter or artist map type of thing. Kind of a flat, more genre specific type of approach, still very good and interesting and effective, but the task was, "Hey, do you have any other ideas?" So then we went down this path and started just trying to take little tangential pivots in things that are still related to the world or the time or the genre but could maybe be a little bit interesting and give us a different spin. Tell me what is the role of the art director on a title sequence like this? On this, I was more of the concept guy. I was the guy that was trying to find visual glue or different perspectives or ways of looking at the ask, at the challenge and in this situation, I think I brought a lot of different reference points together and then we tried to glue it all into something cohesive and different. So in that sense, I was more of the visual mad libs guy for this type of thing. So when we landed on something that everyone seemed to gravitate towards, the filmmakers were interested in, there were a couple of different reference points. It was Automata, the early robotics that were basically glorified, ticker toys type of things. And a lot of Leonardo da Vinci's drawings and sketches and his very interesting designs were very progressive at the time. They just happened to be more simple and basic materials. So those were the two big factors that kind of drove a lot of the concept thing. And then there was a lot of sci-fi interest on a totally different project that we found this really interesting concave map and that became the sort of genesis of the space or the canvas of the titles, the sort of inverted type of thing. Could you read all the books? Yeah, we started with just finding random images. There were just pieces of things that were interesting. We all talked about it. We looked at it. That sort of just exchange of ideas and interests and seeing where things were sort of collectively resonating. And then from there, I went through three phases. I brought in some of my starboard artists that I worked with just to kind of come up with just cues on how things could move in space, just blocking out cameras and seeing how things could flow and how we could maybe follow something, whether it be the Raven or not. We really went down a lot of paths there. And then I had a couple of other guys. I mean, I really cast a wide net. I had some just straight up designer designers that were just kind of doing collagey type of things just to find sort of color keys and moods and just general exploration. And then we had CG just kind of tinkering and playing and just making stuff and there were constant check-ins. And so we would do this sort of rinse and repeat of seeing what's there, mashing stuff together and then doing it again. And it wasn't very long once we started getting all these artists on board, just because it was so expensive. But that was really fun because you really got to see what was bubbling to the surface and grab the little pieces that were feeling right. To have you read all the Game of Thrones books before? No, I had it. You know, I'm perfectly honest. I did not. But I did read it. I read the first book and then I got hooked on it and I was sort of reading the book as I was working on it. I am one book behind. So I'm one book behind right now. But I'm very entrenched in the world. I've been lucky enough to meet George Martin a few times and I'm always gushing to him about the worlds he's created. It's been fun. You created something really iconic. But what title sequences now or historically have been your personal favorites? Film or TV? Wow. That's a, you know, title sequences have, just with my background, that's something I've always really, really appreciated and, you know, collaborating with Angus on this project was really fun because, you know, the seven titles was something that he had cut a long time ago and, you know, was it was a part of that whole, that last big run of amazing title sequences that, you know, to this day are still referenced. And I love True Detective, which, you know, Elastic did as well. I work with that group a lot on design, design oriented jobs. Yeah, I mean, oh, gosh, there's, there's so many, but it's always interesting to see. You know, it's a shame these days with TV shows in the States. A lot of the title sequences get less and less time, you know, if they're getting eaten in a little bit. So you very rarely get the, get the running times that you used to for, for that sort of thing. It's interesting because either they're really spectacular and long or they're like nothing. They're like just a title and like a text. Extremely simple. Yeah, exactly. And it does kind of swing both ways. There isn't much of it in between these days. But like the older stuff, like like Hitchcock, you know, those sequences from way back. Sure. I mean, you know, it's interesting too, because like as far as the way just in general, the zeitgeist of graphic design, that sort of super flat look is very, very right now. But you know, the way it's sort of recontextualized for today's audiences, it's interesting. You know, and then you have stuff that's, you get this explosion of data visualization as well, that sort of changes the whole mindset and how you approach, approach design and how you approach visualizing something as change dramatically as well. So we're in interesting time right now with all that stuff. What would you say is the most innovative thing about the title sequence? I don't know. I mean, it's hard to talk about all your own work that way. I mean, it was just, it was a, it was a really fun way of looking at, at something that we've all seen before, you know, we were just wanted to try to give it a little bit of a spin. So I feel like at least in that sense, you know, Game of Thrones is such a large universe and this like massive world of people and characters. I mean, the hardest thing is to give people a cipher and to at least a tool in helping them understand what, what, where everything is, you know, and so I think that was what I feel really good and at least feeling like we were able to give a sense of the scope of the world. And I think that was, that was the, the, the big goal for that. And, and the fact that it was organic and it changed between episodes, how, how difficult was that? That was hard. You know, our, our producer, Hamid, I mean, he, again, he, that wasn't a person I forgot that, you know, he, when that idea got thrown on the table, I'm sure I'm sure he lost a few years of his life because it was very complicated, you know, and into this day, right? It's not normally when you do a title sequence, you do it and you're done. But you know, every, every year they come back and they ask for revisions. You know, I, I was only involved in the first season, um, since then I've kind of moved on to the things, but, you know, they, they're still a team that comes in every year when there's new paths and new locations. They, they make, they make it and they, they change it and they redeliver it. So every, every season, the title sequence is different. And, and there's always these rumors that there's, there's little Easter eggs in the title sequence clues, you're going to, and, and I'm thinking, maybe you can tell me one if I promise not to tell anyone. There's little loose hints, you know, like in season two when Winterfell got, was it season two, maybe season three, I'm missing all of them, when Winterfell got destroyed, you know, that, that, in those, in those episodes there was, it was smoky and on fire. Right. There's little, little bits in there. I mean, it's very subtle. It's never over the top overt or very, very obvious, but they're, they're little. In that sense, there are little tidbits like that there. Well, it's spectacular. And, and what are you working on now? There's an animated feature, I'm a producer on that is just finishing up, it's called Rock Dog. And that's, that's really fun or, or work, we're kind of just wrapping that one up. And then I, you know, I, I direct commercials and, and I, I do just a lot of other, a lot of other things. So I definitely keep myself busy. And, and you guys won an Emmy for this title sequence. So, so that was pretty amazing. Congratulations. Oh man, that was so awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much for talking to me and taking your time to do this. It was really, really exciting for someone who doesn't know anything about this world. Well, thanks for your interest and, and for having me. Thank you. Please check out the amazing concept designs that Rob let us put up on the site. The American Dream is alive and well, at least for my next guest, Swedish executive producer in Hollywood, Hendrik Bastin. He seems to be involved in like half the shows on TV right now. The very successful Amazon series Bosch, it's based on Michael Connolly's books, is ready for its season two. The comedians on FX with Billy Crystal, American Odyssey on NBC, and the just-announced sci-fi drama The Terrestrial coming up on the USA Network. You break the rules, disobey orders, think I'm coming apart, focus detective. Your future is on the line of this spring. The comedy is like heart surgery, and it gets botched all the time. Go forget. Okayda took millions of dollars from an American corporation. You can prove this. Yes, I can. I want to show you something. Hendrik Bastin's resume reads like a classical Hollywood story, but in his native Sweden. He worked his way from production assistant to his own production companies with very successful Swedish shows, and his work and collaboration states side with his company Fabrik landed him in the US. He's a fellow Swede, but we'll be speaking in English because this show leaves no one out. There's a rumor that Hendrik Bastin was pretty ballsy right from the start and lied to get his first job as production assistant. It depends on which lie you've been reading about, but it seems about right. What was your first job? Well, in this business, it was production assistant for Don Yalbarman, Ingmar Bergman son who did a commercial for the Swedish dairy brand Kilda. It's quite clear that you had a knack for entertainment early. How quickly did you go from being assistant to having assistance? I came, this is Sweden in the early 90s where commercial TV was just about to really take off and explode. I know, and I know, but very few outside of Sweden know that until '89, we only had two public broadcasters in Sweden. From that point on, '89, '90, we got commercial TV in Sweden. The whole business took off at that point, and I was in the midst of it. I was a production assistant on commercials and a couple of TV shows, and then this is the same time where digital editing came into the world, like Avids and Lightworks and stuff like that. I realized there was a niche where you could get in, so a year and a half after being production assistants on different shows, I decided let's buy a digital editing and start a company around it. That's what we did, mid-90s, '94 or something like that. From that point on, it grew into production and production companies and so forth. What exactly do you do as executive producer? I see being a producer as a person that initially comes up with a concept or an idea or sees a potential in something, and then nurtures that idea up to a point where he or she can let it go to people who are better skilled than I am to take over the creative brains on it. The comedians, for instance, was a Swedish format produced in 2004 in Sweden by people that I knew I always was a big fan of a show. When I moved over here in 2009 to 2010, I got the format rights for it and started putting together pieces of a puzzle, meaning Billy Crystal after some twists and turns, meaning Larry Charles, adding these people and getting them to love it as much as I do. At a certain point, the show was well enough packaged, as we say, over here for it to take the next step and we could go into FX and set it up. I think I add value to an original idea or a thought or a book or something like that. That's my job. How much are you involved in the creative process afterwards in scripting and such? My strength is definitely not in writing or those creative arts. I think I'm fairly good at seeing what a show can be at an early stage, see past certain things that might be weird or hokey for someone. I can see the potential in an underlying idea. But when the creative team like Ben Wexler was the showrunner on comedians and Matniks and all the great guys started doing, they take it over and that's their job. I'm happy with it. Then I read and I have ideas and comments, but I never let myself or I shouldn't be telling them what to do. That's also part of a job finding people that are smarter than you and letting them run with it. I want to do a little experiment here for my non-Swedish listeners. Can you describe working in the Swedish entertainment industry? Today, I would say it's in many ways the same and in many ways it's very different. The same being a TV production or a movie or a TV show, a script or a non-script, the basics are always the same. It's about telling a story, getting to get a great people, fighting a budget that you always think is too low, a network that you always think is wrong in some capacity and keeping people from killing each other and having a great time. That is the job in any, I think the same is true for Albania as in the US or Sweden or France. The biggest difference I would say is scope and the scale. What I love about moving over to the states is that there's always a buyer. If you have a great idea, if you have an idea that is truly good and you add a great piece of casting or a great showrunner, then it's up to you to make it happen. Whereas in Sweden, because it's a very small country, with a very small language base, there's very few networks that has the resources to really pull off. The instances where you've had this idea that you know would be a great drama or a great show and it doesn't happen because next year is the Olympics or next year is an election. All the money went to that. That would be the biggest difference in the US as well. It's not a problem that you have a show that's going to break all costs records for a pilot. It could actually be a great pitch. This is going to be the most expensive show ever and people, wow, that's cool. So the resources, the budgets and the level of it, that's the biggest difference. Whereas the craftsmanship is the same. But here we talk a lot about something called the flat organization. Do you feel that there's a difference between that, meaning sort of that everyone's a decision maker? I mean, yes, I mean the, I would say the difference is very, it's different before you get to the point of actually doing a show. After you start producing it and you're in production, you know, a grip is a grip. That is true here and it's true in Sweden. But yes, everybody in the US loves to have an opinion because they think that's part of the, you know, the job description to always have an opinion in a notes meeting. For instance, even if there is like the script is perfect, I guarantee you people will have opinions on the script just because they think that is what they should do. Versus in Sweden, it is a bit more, I wouldn't say flat, but it's definitely different in the management situation and also like the fact that Sweden is a very, we don't have agencies in the same capacity and managers in the same capacity as we have in the States. I think that is a very, even in the UK, it's a very different situation. Whereas in the US, the business is very much driven by the big agencies and the powerful managers. They really control the creative landscape and you have to, you know, you have to deal with that. That's a big difference. And craft services is better in the States, right? It's way better in the States. Which means it's, that's the food that the guests and crew get on production. I would say. Yes. The spreads on even like the smallest of shows are fantastic. So what was the biggest change or shock or difference for you when you came over and did your first American production? Well, I think many things I moved over here. I had been here doing shows for Scandinavia and interacted with the US, you know, entertainment world. So I had, and I especially thought I had a pretty good grip on it when I moved over here wasn't just like being dropped in here. But I would say the biggest aha moment is when you realize that agents are not like erigold. How are they not like erigold? Well, you know, there has definitely been moments where you think of agents as someone like sharks that go through, break down walls for you and make things happen. And I think the biggest aha moment is when you realize that you really have to do all the hard work yourself and the agents will engage once you have really done everything. And then they'll feel the blood in the water and then they can become that sharky figure that really makes a deal for you. But it's really up to you to make things happen. You can't just call your agents even if you have a great and you know, it's like kind of pitch an idea to them. It's too non tangible for them. It really has to be all these different things in place, otherwise they won't act on it because they're driven of what is their next deal, much more than what can be their next deal, you know, two years from now. So that was one big thing. And you know, I thought I could change that and, you know, work more like you did in the Swedish world where you interact with people and sit down and kind of break down an idea and stuff like that. But you know, that didn't work. So that was a learning curve and also realizing how big of a control that you can't really being used coming from Sweden, I could pick up the phone and call basically any producer any head of a network, any head, you know, or I could get big stars to read a script just by giving them a call that short of being Steven Spielberg, that really doesn't happen here. You have to go through the motions. You've navigated several industries. You have, you know, five or six shows on the go now. What is your greatest assets, your quality, being a good producer, would you say? I think it is, it's hard to look at oneself and say what you're really good at or so forth. But I think my biggest asset is that I can see a very, an idea at a very early stage and I can add elements in my head and see what it can be. And like, if I do X, if I, you know, get Billy Crystal to watch this format, I think he will be interested. And if I have him, I can make that next move. I can see kind of a chessboard and make the moves in my head and see what the end product will be. I think that is, that is something that makes my job easier and also that I think I have a personal taste, my personal taste buds are very broad and I can see shows both, I can see where a show will be a broad show or this will be a niche show, but very high quality. Yeah, there's something that I think my personal taste caters to a broad audience and therefore I can pick up on ideas that will work for many people. Talking about reviews, you've had some incredible reviews on your shows and you've had some bad ones. How important are critics in the US to the continuation of a show? I think good reviews always helps because it creates a bus around it and you can use that in marketing. I honestly think that reviews for ratings doesn't really move the needles. I don't think any big show has been driven by reviews in LA Times or New York Times or Hollywood Reporter or something like that, but it certainly helps when you get them because it gets the client, the network, a bus. If you have really bad reviews, but if the audience finds it anyways and loves it, it doesn't really matter that you've been panned. That would be my take on it. How are the reactions back home? Well, I think most people think it's very, very cool. There's probably people we have something in Sweden called Yum, the login, but I really don't explain that. Yum, the login is the Swedish saying or almost a natural law that you shouldn't stick out too much. And boast your success and you should remain in place and not tell people that you made it. They were good and bad things with that. I have to say, I haven't really experienced anything of that. I think most people I interact with is very happy and they think it's cool. I have had a very good experience so far. Every murder is the tail of a city, but I don't believe there's a better world than this one. This is the police. And if this is the only one we got, how about I buy you a drink? Call me. I know that line. Yes. Do you have any idea what kind of position you've got this department in? We'll never know how many others he's done. This is a child's bone detective. No doubt about it. I believe you find the justice again in this way. Not the next one. I'm Detective Bosch, L.A.P.D. Hollywood Division. This is the work I do. What can we expect from Bosch Season 2? Well. And congratulations to the success on That's a great show. Thank you. Thank you. I'm very, very happy with it. I'm very proud of it. You can expect more of the same in the best sense possible. Harry will be Harry. We are basing the second season on Michael's book to Trunk Music with some strains also coming in from the book The Drop. We'll take Harry from the Underbelly of L.A. to the Underbelly of Las Vegas and back and forth. I think it will be, maybe if anything, it will be slightly darker. It will go even down, down in the past some more and put his family in danger. We start the rightist room on Wednesday here in L.A. and I'm very, very excited about it. Cool. And is it the same people coming back? Pretty much. It's pretty much the same. And then there's a couple of really nice, juicy guests roles. We have a fantastic female character that's going to come in. So we're excited to start that part of the casting process as well to see who we can have this time around. What is your big picture? What do you want to do after now? Well, I really don't have a master plan or something like that. I think the company that Fabrique, that I run, is the only kind of create or model mission statement is like we find shows that we on a personal level would love to see on air. And if they are 10 in development, if they're one in development, it really doesn't matter. Right now we have a number of shows that I'm really excited about. You mentioned Terrestrial that is put in development with USA based on a pitch from Gary Dohman who wrote Annabelle, which is just like one of the best pictures that sort of horror thriller picture. No, it's very different than Annabelle. It's a story about a man getting, I can't tell you because then I would spoil it. But it's one of the best pitches I ever heard and Gary is like one of the nicest guy ever met. So I'm very excited about that. We actually have a script call in a couple of hours about it. Do you know anything about casting yet? No, it's way too early. We're just turning in the first draft and we don't even know if it's going to go or not. But it's a project I'm very, very excited about. We have a number of projects that are in different stages of development. We just finished up a pilot for NBC called Love is a Fort Web Leather Word that's based on a Danish format called Nikolai and Julia. That turned out really well that George Tillman directed and Diana Son was the showrunner for. So I saw the final cut of that yesterday. We take the best they come, that's kind of like, that is the game plan. I just love doing what I'm doing right now. Thank you so much for talking to me and we'll definitely keep an eye on all your things that are coming. Thank you, Henry. Good luck with everything. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening and make sure to visit popcultureconfidential.com where you'll find more content from this episode and you can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Sound Engineering and Editing by Tom Hanson, producer is Renee Vittesstedt and music by Call Boy. I'm Christina Yerling-Biro and listen to us next time. Hello, podcast fans. It is I, Bruce Volanche. For over 25 years, I worked on the Academy Awards, so you didn't have to. In that time I've seen and heard things that should not be seen or heard or certainly built. And now, for the first time, I'm sharing all my behind the scenes stories and firsthand knowledge about the Oscars, the blood, the sweat, the tears, the slap, all the things you didn't see. So join me as I use humor and insight to break down the Oscar Awards of the past to explain how and why your favorite movie didn't win. Why some actors and some directors had to fire their agents and how the whole process works or sometimes doesn't work. This is the Oscars, what were they thinking? Available wherever you get podcasts. [BLANK_AUDIO]