(upbeat music) This podcast is brought to you by Free Buddhist Audio, the Dharma for Your Life. Our work is funded entirely by donations from our generous listeners. If you would like to help us keep this free, make a contribution at freebuddhistaudio.com/donate. Thank you and happy listening. - Hello, very nice to see quite a lot of people that I know, some people from away back years ago, haven't seen for a long time. And some people I don't know. One of the problems we've given a public talk at a Buddhist center, you get at least half the people at Buddhist already, so the jokes and the stories that you would tell to complete newcomers, everyone's heard them already. And I'm gonna begin with a story of the Buddha, which half of you in this room will have heard already quite a few times. Come on in and make yourself comfy. Sorry about that, Graham. I just left the, okay. Actually, it's not a story, it's not much of a story. It's more a conversation that the Buddha had with a king. And I don't know if it's true. I don't know if it actually happened, although the Buddha did know a couple of kings, so maybe it did. What happened was they were talking and they got talking about happiness. And I think the king must have said something that made the Buddha think that the king thought he was more happy than the Buddha. So the Buddha stopped him and said, "You know, actually, I'm more happy than you." And the king said, "No, I'm happy than you are." And he's one of those kind of conversations. And so the Buddha said, "Okay, should we put it to the test?" So the king said, "Yeah, let's put it to the test." And so the Buddha said, "I can sit here for an hour, "doing absolutely nothing and be perfectly happy. "Can you do that?" And the king was a bit taken aback by that. What a strange question. More people coming in. I've just realised as those three people came in that I've missed a bit of the story out, so let's go. (imitates buzzing) The king said, "Let's start again while they..." Why don't you come in and make yourselves comfy? And I can begin with a story of the Buddha and the king. I'll start again and get it right this time for you. Good. So I was just saying, I'm going to start with this conversation that happened between the Buddha and the king. Apparently it happened. I know we're talking about happiness and the king said, "I'm happier than you are." And the Buddha said, "No, no, no, I'm happier than you are." And they had this kind of ping-pong conversation. And then the king said, "How can you be happier than me?" I mean, look what I've got. I've got a kingdom, number of palaces. I'm fabulously rich. I've got a number of concubines, dancing girls. I can eat whatever I want when I want. Got a massive treasure chest full of gold. And I can get Benares silk whenever I want to. In the old Buddhist text, Benares silk was like the heights of riches. If you could afford Benares silk, you were very, very rich. So I must be happy than you. 'Cause look what you've got. And you laughed probably. You're standing there in your robes. Actually, there weren't robes, there were rags. You're standing there in rags. You've got an old bowl for begging people food. And you've got a razor to shave your head. And you've got a water strainer. That's the only things you've possessed in the whole world. So how can you possibly be happier than me? So the Buddha said, "I'm happier than you are." So you put it to the test. So here we are. We come back to this place again now. Just as you came in, I was at this point. Let's put it to the test. Can you sit here for an hour, do an absolutely nothing and be happy? And this took the king aback a bit. He wasn't expecting this. So he said, "Yes, I think so." In a keenly way. You know how they do, yes, I think so. And the Buddha said, "Can you sit here for a day and a night? "Do an absolutely nothing and be perfectly happy?" And the king had to admit defeat at that point. He said, "No, I couldn't see her "for that long, do an absolutely nothing. "I'd have to go and see one of my concubines "or get on a horse or something. "You know, I just couldn't sit here and do nothing." So the Buddha said, "I can see here for seven days "and seven nights doing absolutely nothing "and be perfectly happy." Now you might think so, what? But we'll come back to it later. I just want you to remember that story. So yes, as Sirica said, the talk is called "Avert Climate Change." Stop buying stuff and learn to be happy. It was a much longer title at first. We had to pair it down. It began with recycling is not going to be enough to avert climate change. Stop buying stuff and electronic gadgetry and learn the ancient art of happiness instead. But that's a very, very long title, isn't it? That's the actual title. So to be serious for a minute, our situation is actually very, very serious, isn't it? If you've done any reading around climate change at all, it is very, very serious. According to most scientists who are looking into climate change, there's not complete unanimity on this. There are still some climate change skeptics. Some scientists think that there isn't actually a climate change, it's just the temperature's gone up. It's going to go down again soon. Don't worry about it. Others say there is climate change. It's got nothing to do with us humans. We're not really at fault here. It's just going up because it's going up, in which case we're completely stuffed. But most scientists it seem think that there is climate change. It's got to very, very serious proportions and it is our fault because of burning fossil fuels, et cetera, et cetera. But that's not the only problem we've got. There are also dwindling Earth's resources. We've seen some have got to peak oil and gas now. So that's going to begin to run out. Not only fossil fuels, but also fresh water, fish, stocks, phosphate for agriculture and topsoil is dwindling apparently. Not only that, we've got this continued population growth. So that in not too long ahead, there are going to be so many people on the planet who won't be able to feed everybody. And of course, going along with that, there is declining per capita food production. So we are in a very serious situation. So what am I going to do in this talk? I am not going to use this talk to try to convert people to Buddhism. I'm not going to say all our problems will be solved if everyone became Buddhist. That probably won't happen anyway, even if all our problems could be solved by everyone becoming Buddhist, not everyone is going to become Buddhist, are they? So that would be a useless thing to try to do. It would also be a little bit dishonest and manipulative, I think, using a very serious theme as I have chosen to convert people to Buddhism. It would be somewhat manipulative. Anyway, it wouldn't be a very good motivation for you to become Buddhist. Hello, come on in. That's okay. (audience member speaking off mic) Ah, buses can be horrible. Yes, it wouldn't be a very good motivation for people to become Buddhist because you'd have an ulterior motive for becoming a Buddhist. The only reason for becoming a Buddhist is because you want to become a Buddhist. That's the real reason for becoming a Buddhist. Buddhism is too serious a thing to use for something else. So that's not what I'm going to do. So what am I going to do? Well, the basic message of the talk is in the title and I have mentioned the title two or three times now, so I won't need to say that again. Recycling is not going to be enough. We want to carry on living in the way we are, don't we? Driving our cars around and having loads of electricity on in the house and going on holidays in airplanes. We want to carry on doing that and we hope, but by recycling loads and loads of stuff, we'll be able to carry on in exactly the same way. But that won't happen. No matter how much recycling we do, it cannot offset our carbon footprint. So we need to do something else. We need to learn to live simply, more simply, probably, than you're doing already. I'm guessing, I don't know many of you, but I'm guessing we all need to learn to live more simply. Relying on inner abundance and riches doesn't only lead to greater personal and spiritual happiness and fulfillment, but it's also very, very good, even essential for the future of our world, our planet. Not only for ourselves, but everything that lives here. This idea actually is not original to me. It's not something that I thought up. I have here a really nice little book called "Timeless Simplicity" by John Lane. You smiled there, do you know it? Yeah. Chapter one is called "Why Voluntary Simplicity?" And it gives two reasons. The quest for personal contentment and the global picture, both those reasons. Chapter two is a short history of simplicity, going back into the ancient, you know, the Greeks, the Christians, the Buddhists, the Taoists. Chapter three is called Obstacles to Simplicity. The first one is the fallacy that money can purchase contentment. Chapter four, laying the foundations for a simpler lifestyle, rethinking your belief systems. Chapter five, the gifts of simplicity. Lovely chapter this. Living in the present, savoring the ordinary, the gift of place, the solace of companionship, the pleasures of listening and seeing, the gift of nature, the fruits of play and creativity, the gift of laughter, caring for the soul. And the chapter six is "The Sacred Arts of Life." Very nice book. And that isn't the only book. There are many, many books actually, recommended reading here at the back. Anthony Bertram, "The Pleasures of Poverty." Mark Birch, "Steping Lightly, Simplicity for People and the Planet" is another one. "Dwayne Elgin, Voluntary Simplicity, Toward a Way of Life that is Outwardly Simple, Inwardly Rich." That would be a good title for a talk, wouldn't it? Wish I'd have thought of that. Not only are there books, there are movements. There is a voluntary simplicity movement. You can go on their website and read all sorts of things and get involved with the voluntary simplicity movement. There's also the, if I can find it here, amongst all my mini books. The slow living movement. You heard of the slow living movement. Slow food as opposed to fast food. Slow travel as opposed to fast travel. Slow living, slow cities. And then there's the idle movement. Who's come across the idle movement? I don't know if this can be actually called a movement, actually. I think that might be just a bit too idle to get themselves together. But the leader is the wonderful Tom Hodgkinson who takes a different approach. His first book was called "How to Be Idle." That speaks volumes, doesn't it? We have to learn how to be idle. Where do we forget how to be idle? His second book, which I consider to be better than that one, is "How to Be Free." And here's a taste of him. I've tried to bring together three stands of thought into a philosophy for everyday life. These are freedom, merriment, and responsibility. It's an approach to life that is also known as having a laugh. (audience laughs) Doing what you want. The Western world has allowed freedom, merriment, and responsibility to be taken from it. From ourselves and substituted with greed, competition, lonely striving, it's wonderful, that isn't it, lonely striving, grayness, debts, McDonald's, and GlaxoSmithKline. (audience laughs) And you just have to read the chapter headings to cheer cells up. The tyranny of bills and the freedom of simplicity. Reject Korea and all its empty promises. Yes. (audience laughs) Death to shopping, or fleeing the prison of consumer desire. Stop moaning, be merry. (audience laughs) Live mortgage free, be a happy wanderer. Stop worrying about your pension and get a life. Et cetera, et cetera. I just have to pick this book up sometimes and have a look at it and I just feel so much better. (audience laughs) Okay. So, this is not a new idea. Many people have cottoned onto this idea that we really do need to change the way we live, the way we think about life. And this talk is my attempt at a Buddhist contribution to that project. The Buddha. The Buddha is not his name, it was the title, and it means something like the awakened one, or the enlightened one, but he had many titles, many, many titles. He wasn't only called the Buddha, he's called many things. Some of them not very complimentary. He was also called the happy wand, Sugata. Now, if that name would have stuck, that would be very interesting, wouldn't it? This wouldn't be the Manchester Buddhist center, it'd be the Manchester Sugata, Sugata center. And we would all be Sugatists. We'd be happinessists. He was also called the man of naught, or the man of nothing. I can't give you the parley for that, I'm afraid. I haven't looked it up, but the man of nothing. And those two titles are very much interconnected. He is the happy wand because he's the man of nothing. We'll look at that a bit later on. Refer back to the story of the king and the Buddha. The Buddha was happy because he had nothing, not in spite of the fact that he had nothing. Now, in those days, two and a half thousand years ago in India, nobody knew anything at all about climate change, and peak oil, and all that kind of stuff. Even the Buddha didn't know anything about that. But we can be pretty sure if he was alive now, he would have things to say about it. And we can be pretty sure of that because in the Dharma part of one of the most famous books of Buddhism, of the Buddhist sayings, it's just a book full of the Buddhist sayings. There's a lovely little one here. Let the silent sage move about in the village as the bee goes taking honey from the flower without harming color or fragrance. Now, he said that in response to something that happened. The Buddha was a wanderer, he begged for his food. Many of his followers were also wanderers who begged for their food. They were going to the village, stand there with a baking bowl, probably get filled up and they go away and eat. The Buddha got to hear that a few of the monks kept on going back to the same village because the food was pretty good there. So they kept going back and the villagers began to feel a little bit put upon. It began to eat into their resources. So the Buddha said, don't go into the same village twice. Just go there and move off. And then he said, let the silent sage move about in the village as the bee goes taking honey from the flower without harming color or fragrance. That's one translation, but I've come across another nice little translation which brings it right up to date. It takes it out of its Indian cultural milieu context. I don't know what milieu means, but it's something like that, isn't it? As a bee gathering nectar does not harm or disturb the color and fragrance of the flower. So do the wise move through the world. So it's kind of an up to date translation, isn't it? The Buddha said, on many, many occasions, that he only taught his teaching, what we Buddhist called the dharma to alleviate suffering. That was his only reason for teaching. It wasn't intellectual stimulation. It wasn't to explain the beginning of the world or the end of the world. It was to alleviate suffering. In other words, to make people happier. But what is happiness? What is happiness? It's actually very hard to define. Quite easy to describe, but hard to define. What I don't mean by happiness is a superficial, positive emotionalism, what's been called happy clappy. If you come across that idea, happy clappy, it's used of certain Christian groups, isn't it? Where you see them on the street sometimes, and they're singing with an acoustic guitar, always in the major key, and they're clapping. Really, really happy people. So we're a bit suspicious of that kind of happiness, aren't we? We wonder how deep it really goes. I also don't mean positive thinking. I don't mean a determined kind of cheerfulness. I'm sure you've come across people who are determinedly cheerful, always looking on the bright side of life. I don't mean that kind of thing. So what do I mean? So, let's refer back to slow living. This is actually a very difficult book to read. It's written by a couple of academics. (audience laughs) Sorry, the academics in the room. But I'm not gonna quote you from the academics. I'm gonna quote you from a much easier book that they're quoting from. And this book is by Jane Bennett, and it's called The Enchantment of Modern Life, Attachments, Crossings, and Ethics. What does that mean, I don't know? But anyway, The Enchantment of Modern Life. She says enchantment is a feeling of being connected in an affirmative way to existence. It is to be under the momentary impression that the natural and cultural worlds offer gifts. And in doing so, remind us that it is good to be alive. This sense of fullness, what the Epicureans talk about in terms of Ataraxi, contentment with existence, encourages the finite human animal. In turn, to give away some of its own time and effort on behalf of other creatures. A sensibility attuned to moments of enchantment is no guarantee that this will happen, but it doesn't make it more possible. In other words, what she's saying is when you're in this state of enchantment or Ataraxi, contentment with existence, you're more likely to be generous and to help others than if you're very unhappy. Do you want to come in and make yourself comfy? There are seats down here. You'll have to sit on the floor, I'm afraid. There aren't any more chairs. (clears throat) That's a pretty good definition or description of happiness, I think. I'm going to quote from the Damapada again. I can find it. Here's the Buddha again. If by renouncing unlimited happiness, one would see an abundant happiness, let the spiritually mature person have in regard to the abundant happiness sacrifice the limited happiness. So here the Buddha's talking about two kinds of happiness, a limited happiness and an abundant happiness. But he doesn't say what he means by that. He leaves us in the dark. Luckily, on another occasion, he goes into this. In fact, he goes into some detail into happiness. In fact, he talks about three levels or depths of happiness. One is worldly happiness. The second is unworldly happiness. And the third is still greater, unworldly happiness. Unworldly, strange word, isn't it, unworldly? The word, of course it's a translation, English translation of an ancient Indian language, the party language. The original is Nira Misa, which always reminds me of Tiramisu. But it's the opposite of Tiramisu, Nira Misa. It literally means having no meat or prey. Pray, P-R-E-Y, predator, pray. Having no meat or prey. It's quite an interesting idea, that is the happiness that has no meat or prey for its object. Kind of suggests a happiness not dependent on other beings, a happiness or lack of happiness. It also means free from sensual desires. It means disinterested. Disinterested is one of those words that is beginning to lose its meaning. But very often, when people say they're disinterested, they mean they're uninterested, but that's really not what the word means. The word means not self-interested, yeah? You haven't got a self-invested interest in something. So impartial, that's really what it means. And it also means, the word Nira Misa also means not material. Each of those three levels or depths has four levels as well. So now you've got 12 levels of happiness. I'm gonna try to go into them all. I have to say that I haven't experienced all these 12, so sometimes I'll be talking somewhat theoretically. And other times I'll be able to talk much more from my own experience. So each one is divided into four. The first level is joy. Second level is happiness. The third level is equanimity. And the fourth level is freedom. Joy, the original word is pity, which means a kind of an excitement. Sometimes it's translated as rapture or ecstasy. It's that kind of happiness, which is very excited and excitable. It's the kind of happiness you have when you've just asked someone out and they've said yes. And you're like, whoa, fantastic. I know all about that from my recent experience. It's a kind of really excited happiness. It's very hard to sleep at night. And stomach goes funny and it's that kind of yes. Or maybe when you win some money and go and do the lottery and you win 100 quid and go, yeah, I've got 100 pounds, let's go out tonight. It's that kind of excited kind of happiness. So joy in worldly happiness, first of all. What that means, worldly happiness is it's happiness based on your five outer senses. I say your five outer senses because in Buddhism, there are six senses. One of them is the mind. But in Western terms, it's happiness based on the five senses, senses. Things that you can see, smell, taste, touch here. In other words, it's pleasure. There's a difference between happiness and pleasure is they're not, everyone knows that. I know everyone knows that because very often when I'm teaching, I ask people, is there a difference between happiness and pleasure? I say, yeah, there is. And they all come up with some wonderful distinctions. Skilled children, really, really good on the difference between happiness and pleasure. We all know that. So worldly kind of happiness is based on the pleasure that you receive through anyone or a combination of the five senses. And that's fine. The Buddha once said, you know, if you get what you want, you'll be happy. If you get those sensual desires that you want, it will make you happy. No, no, no doubt about that. It really does work to a certain extent. The trouble is with that kind of happiness, it's dependent on things outside of yourself. Things outside of yourself are not under your own control, at least most of the time, they're not. And so they can go away without you having any say in it whatsoever, you've had this happen yourself, I'm sure. You've bought something new and you're really pleased with it and it gets broken. Or somebody steals it or you lose it. Mobile phones, you get this new mobile phone and you can't find it anywhere. So it's the problem of the umbrella. It's the umbrella problem. You've got an umbrella, you're really happy with your umbrella but you keep leaving it at places and you have to keep buying new ones. And modern psychology, positive psychology has done some really fantastic research around this. It talks about the hedonic treadmill. You come across the hedonic treadmill or the hedonic adaptation or habituation, which is you want something, a new partner, a new job, a new home, a new car, a new iPhone. And you really want it and it takes you a while to get hold of it because you need the money or whatever it is. And then you get it and when you get it, you really do feel happy. There's no doubt about that. You feel this sense of uplift and inspiration and life's great, isn't it? And you feel happy. How long has it last though? Anything between two weeks and three months. And then at the end of that three months, you're right back to where you were before. You've still got the iPhone but you're as happy as you were three months ago before you had the iPhone and you've gone back to your base level of happiness. And they've done lots of research on this. Lottery winners, those people who win millions of pounds. They interview them immediately after they've won the lottery and they're deliberately happy. What, oh! A year later, they interview them and they're no happier than they were before they've won the lottery. In fact, some of them are unhappy because all the network of friends that they had before was gone. They've moved on to something else. They're probably living in Spain or somewhere like that and they've got any friends anymore. So it's okay. It's not that going after central desires is bad or evil in Buddhism. It's just that it doesn't work in the long term. It doesn't work. So the three, the four levels of this level of happiness are joy, the excitement of getting what you want. Then a more mature kind of happiness. Succa, succa, which means it's a kind of more even deeper sense of fulfillment, happiness. And that comes, you know, not when you've just bought something but when you're happy with what you've got in life. It's a kind of comfortable happiness. Then the next level is equanimity. A word not much used in our language but it means, I looked up in the dictionary this morning, it means the quality of being undisturbed by good or ill fortune. What a gift. What a fantastic thing to be able to have as a quality. The quality of being undisturbed by good or ill fortune. So at this level, even of so-called worldly happiness, you don't really mind. It's okay that things go wrong. You're not that bothered about it. There's something to strive for and there's something that I think Buddhism can offer the world. Fourth level is freedom. And here you are completely free of any dependence whatsoever on sensuous pleasure. Completely free. Not that you don't enjoy it sometimes but you don't depend on it. You don't rely for your happiness on that kind of pleasure. You can take it or leave it. You don't mind. Freedom is the highest kind of happiness for Buddhism. So that's the first four of the florists level of happiness, worldly happiness. Unworldly happiness comes about mainly through the practice of meditation. And here we enter upon something that really Buddhism can offer. Those people who want to learn to live simply but develop their inner riches because the art of meditation is the art of learning to develop your inner resources. You could say that when we start to meditate, we switch from dependence upon, how can I put this? Our happiness being dependent upon the outer world to the inner world, to our interior life. Now I've been reading a very, very interesting paper report. It's called Common Cause, the case for working with our cultural values by Tom Crompton, who is a changed strategist at the World Wildlife Fund UK. And the report was published in partnership with Climate Outreach and Information Network, COIN, Campaign to Protect rural England, the Friends of the Earth and Oxfam. It's a very important report, I would say, and you can download it very easily. You just Google this. In the report, Tom Crompton talks about the difference between extrinsic values and intrinsic values. Extrinsic values are dependent on the perception of others. They include envy of higher, and vertical, as social strata, admiration of wealth and power. Intrinsic values are sense of community, affiliation to friends and family, and self-development. We're back to the king and the Buddha once more. The king, with his extrinsic values, is dependent upon his wealth, the Buddha, intrinsic values, dependent upon the sense of community, affiliations of friends and family, and self-development. Apparently, according to this report, experimental studies show that a strong focus on financial success and extrinsic value is associated with lower empathy, more manipulative tendencies, higher preference for social inequality, greater prejudice towards people who are different, and less concerned about environmental problems. Now, this idea of extrinsic and intrinsic values is not Tom Crompton's, it comes from psychology again, but Crompton uses it because he says that progressive causes are failing because of the assumption that information will persuade people to change their behavior. If people just knew the truth of the matter, people would change their behavior, but people aren't changing their behavior, and governance are not changing their behavior, at least not quickly enough. Research has shown that people reject information that does not conform with their values. So, progressive reformist Tom Crompton says have to try to change people's values from extrinsic to intrinsic. I was very amused the other day when I read part of an interview with the chief executive of Ryanair, Michael O'Leary, about climate change. Here's a snippet from what he said. It is absolutely bizarre that the people who can't tell us what the effing weather is next Tuesday can predict with absolute precision what the effing global temperatures will be in 100 years time, it's horseshit. (audience laughing) I don't really know much about Michael O'Leary, I don't know, but it might be that he has done a real study of climate change and talked to the scientists, and this is his considered opinion, albeit in very colorful language, or maybe not. This is a very good example, I think, of extrinsic values. You can give all the facts of someone like Michael O'Leary, and he will not accept them. Something to do with the fact that he runs a very cheap airline, I think. Referring back, though, to what I said earlier, about not wanting to use this talk to convert people to Buddhism. From the point of view of the very real and serious problems that we are facing, we need not to try to convert people to Buddhism, what we do need to try to do is to change people's values from extrinsic to intrinsic values. It's absolutely essential that we do that, and this, I think, is where Buddhism can really help, because Buddhism is all about intrinsic values. The Buddha was a wonderful example of intrinsic values. His teachings are just wonderful explorations, and encouragement and inspirations to embrace intrinsic values, because, in the end, they make us happier, more fulfilled human beings. How long have I got? Okay. So, I could, I think. How are you doing? If you had enough? No, okay, let's go a bit further in. So, the Buddha spoke in terms of four different levels or depths of meditation. I'm not going to go into it. It can be very, very technical this, but basically, the first level is joy, the joy of meditation. Even meditation can be exciting. You can get ripples of ecstasy and rapture all over your body, honestly. Fabulous. And it feels great, but it's still very excitable, and, after a while, you get a bit fed up with it. You want to move on, so I'm told. And then you move on to a deeper level of happiness, which is quieter, more considered, deeper, stiller, more beautiful. I have actually experienced that, to be honest. I have gone a little bit way into these levels, and it really is a very, very lovely experience when what is often our experience is often one of being a bit fragmented, a bit fractured, a bit fractious. Our day at the end of the day, you know what it's like at the end of the day, you're sort of half at work and half home, and then your kids start talking to you, you know, you just don't feel very together. But when you start to meditate, when you hit this second stage of meditation, happiness, it's the happiness of a deeper confrontation with yourself. And it's hugely rewarding. It's like coming home to yourself. It's like coming home after traveling, and you've had a good time, but you're so pleased to come back to your loved ones and your bed. And it's just a wonderful sense of homecoming. That's what that second depth or level of meditation feels like, quite wonderful. There's a poet called David White who describes these kind of things very, very well. I'll just recite you the first few lines of one of his poems. It's called "Sweet Darkness." Well, Nick, you're watching me. I won't be able to remember the first line. (audience laughing) Just talk amongst yourselves for a minute. (audience laughing) When your eyes are tied, the world is tied also. When your vision has gone, no part of the world can find you. Time to go into the dark, where the night has eyes to recognize its own. Just remember, the next bit, the dark will be your home tonight. There, you can be sure you are not beyond love. There, you will find a horizon further than you can see. There is one thing you must learn. There is one thing you must learn. The world was made to be free in. Give up all the other worlds to which you do not belong. Sometimes it takes darkness and the sweet confinement of your aloneness to learn. Anyone or anything that does not bring you alive is too small for you. You are the whole poem. (audience laughing) David White with a "Why." Where was I? Oh, yes. Then the third level or the third depth of this meditative absorption is equanimity. And when you get to this stage, you're no longer experiencing the world in terms of pleasure or pain or happiness or unhappiness. You've gone beyond that distinction. Your happiness is not happiness in any way that we at the moment can really imagine. It's gone beyond that. And the fourth level is freedom, complete and utter sense of freedom. Then we come to the next level of four, the still, greater, unworldly happiness. I've got absolutely no experience of this. It's enlightenment where you're completely free of greed, hate and delusion. Or in other words, greed being the wanting things, hatred being the rejecting and confusion being, you don't know what on earth you're doing. So I can't really say anything about that from my own experience, but there are plenty of Buddhist sages who can. And I'm going to read you from Miller Epper, who was Tibetan, Yogi, lived up in the mountains in Tibet, had a tiny bit of cloth to where, that's all he wore. He ate nettles, that's all he ate. He had absolutely nothing, nothing. He sang once, I am a Yogi who lives on a snow mountain peak. Cleansed of vanity, I am not unhappy. I feel naught but joy. Renouncing all turmoil and fondness for my version, I reside alone in perfect ease. Forswearing the bustle of this world, joyfully I stay in no man's land. I practice virtuous deeds, I feel no shame of heart. Since I have no pride or vanity, I renounce with joy the saliva splashing debate. Hypocrisy I have I not, nor pretension. Happy and natural I live. Without forethought or adjustment. Since I want nor fame nor glory, rumors and accusations disappear. Wherever I go, I feel happy. Whatever I wear, I feel joyful. Whatever food I need, I'm satisfied. I'm always happy. The yoga of joy ever feels my hermitage. So although I don't actually have the experience that Miller Appa had by a long chalk, I have some faint reflection of it. So I've written my own song of happiness to finish and I'm going to inflict it upon you. But before that, I need to show you something because I refer to something in this song. I'm not going to sing it. That you need to know about otherwise you'll misunderstand. So I've got something here behind the shrine. (audience laughing) Okay. Well, have I done that? There is a reason. I don't have a car. I'm happy to say I do not have a car. And I travel by walking and I used to travel by cycling, but I just feel it's too dangerous on the roads. There are no cycle routes between where I live and here. It's just far too dangerous. I'm just waiting to get hit. This weekend I had the bright idea of I'll buy a scooter. I can go on the pavement. So this is my new mode of transport. So this you need to know. (audience laughing) Here's my song of happiness. I am a Buddhist who lives in a small flat in Salford. (audience laughing) Having everything I need, I am happy. Not hankering after things I don't need, I am happy. I have no TV, so I am happy. I have no car. I travel by public transport. I walk. I scoot. Using my fin, but adequate legs. I have learned to love solitude, so I am happy. I have a few lovely friends and a sweet-natured lover. Listening to music, reading books, meditating, doing nothing and reflecting, I am happy. Eating simple, vegetarian food, I am happy. I am so happy. The yoga of joy ever feels my flat. (audience applauding) Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I don't want to go on a suit then. (audience laughing) Thank you very much for having me with it. For a wonderful talk. And he said to me, he got to small at the end and said, "No way." "I am not going to turn to small flat in here in this pot, "but I will say that if you talk to me and you call it, "I do want to know if it's a very sad set. "You can listen to it over at the end of the day." (audience laughing) Which I am sure I can't put on some of you. Might want to do that in a few different taking notes. So thank you very much for your talk. I am happy to take a few questions. So please make the most of your attention to ask what we've been able to think about it. Before we begin, I just say that I know if I'm in a talk and then we have questions, I think I've had enough now, I want to go. So please leave if you want to. (audience laughing) Okay. (audience laughing) Okay. So any questions? No. Oh, okay. (audience laughing) Yeah. (audience laughing) (audience laughing) Yeah. (audience laughing) (audience laughing) (audience laughing) To a certain extent. (audience laughing) Have you come across the Hungarian psychologist, (speaking foreign language) (audience laughing) (audience laughing) No. Okay. He is famous and he spent moments in his life exploring a state which he called the state of flow. Which is the state that we often get into actually, I'm sure you recognize it when you're fully involved in something, fully engaged in something. It might be reading a really good book, watching a really good film, making love, plain tennis, gardening, whatever it is that you really enjoy doing. You get into it and there are some conditions for it actually. One of the conditions is that it has to involve some skill, the skill of reading, for instance. And your skill has to be exercised. So if the activity you're engaging in is too easy for you, get bored. So you won't enter the state of flow. If it's too difficult for you, you all feel stressed and you won't enter the state of flow. But it has to sort of be enough to make you really concentrate. And then when you get into that state, there are eight characteristics. I won't go into them all. But just two or three of the characteristics. One of them is time and future drop away. So you're no longer aware of, you're no longer thinking about time and future because you're fully involved in what you're doing. There's no room left in your mind for thinking about anything else. So you, and when passing future drop away, all your troubles drop away. All our troubles is due with the passing and future. There's no problem with being here now, is there? Where's the problem? The problem is what happens tomorrow or Monday morning. You know, that's where all our problems lie or something that we shouldn't have done yesterday kind of thing. So that's where all our unhappiness lies in the past and the future. I think one of the ancient Greeks said that, didn't he? I think it's Epicurus who said that if we could just live in the present moment, we would be happy. So that's one of the characteristics. Another one of the characteristics is that this distinction between you and the activity, no longer is the distinction. So it's a whole experience. You're fully engaged and you're not thinking, I am reading this novel. You are fully in the novel. Do you see what I mean? So do you recognize that? That's very similar to the first stage or maybe the first and second stages of meditation. But then the third and fourth stages, your mind withdraws from the five senses, the five outer senses, and you're completely involved in mind. So you can't really play tennis, or you can't play tennis at all and do that, or make love or anything like that. So you can get so far with other things, other interests and so on dancing, all those kind of things. But it won't take you as far as meditation. That's why meditation has such an important place in Buddhism. Happy with that answer? Okay. Any other questions? One of the sort of questions that just I've created when we were talking about what happiness was. I think he says something like when you are happy or in this enchantment state without a level of enchantment, did you say you're more likely to help others? Yes. This is what this-- You can explain a bit on that, obviously. I don't know if the school card just didn't screw it. A lot of people thought to say they're not quite lucky, you might say they're not that happy, but they can still help others. So-- I'm sure people aren't happy. I think it's easier to be in the murder of thinking of helping others if you've got less worries yourself. I think that's what the author was saying. Let me just try and repeat that question because some people may have not have heard it and if they're going to listen to this somewhere or other on Facebook or whatever they want here, I've heard the question. So is it really true, what I said earlier, quoting from that book about Epicurean living, that when you're in this state of enchantment, the state of fulfillment and happiness, you're more likely to help others. Is that really true? I think it is. That's not to say that when you're very unhappy, you never help others. Of course, we do help others, no matter what kind of state we're in. But I think there's a certain limit as to how much we can do when we're unhappy. There's that idea of compassion for tea, isn't there, that old burnout that sometimes Buddhists get into, where they're just helping, helping, helping. Then it gets to the point where they can do no more. And it's very often because they haven't been taken enough account of their inner resources. They haven't been inner resourcing themselves well enough, I think. I know because I've done this a couple of times myself and had to go away for many months to recoup. So in the long term, I think, I remember I was, when I left Manchester for the first time, I didn't quite know what I was gonna do next. And I had two opportunities. One was to go to Wales and live and work in a Buddhist study centre. And the other was to go to Norfolk to live in a Buddhist retreat centre for men helping them to get ordained. What I wanted to do was go to Wales. But I felt I should go to the one in Norfolk because they really needed people. I knew they had a great need there. And I was wondering what to do. I went for a walk with a very good friend and he said, "Rattnaguna." He said, "Where do you, where do you think you are?" I said, "I, I plant, I'm gonna go to the place in Norfolk." And he said, "Rattnaguna, don't do it. Don't do it. You'll get stressed out." What the world needs is a happy Rattnaguna, not a stressed out Rattnaguna. And that has obviously stayed with me ever since. That was many, many years ago. And I think sometimes Buddhists, when they sit and meditate, they think, "Oh, this is very selfish, isn't it? Sitting here and meditating for an hour and I could be out helping people." Or going on a treat for two months or two months. Yeah, great, two weeks or more. We sometimes get asked this and be, "Isn't that selfish to do that?" Yes, it is selfish. In the sense that you need to be selfish sometimes. You need to feed yourself. You need to build up your inner resources so that you're able to help others. So that's my rather long-winded answer to that. I need to warn you, don't I, that I should have warned you as another thing, but when you ask me a question, you don't get a simple reply, you get a... Another talk, ah. - Say if I get a simple reply, does your lover have a scooter? - Does my lover have a scooter? No, she doesn't. She doesn't, she's a walkout and a bus rider. I can't quite hear you, Martin. Could you speak up a bit? - Yes, we have a certain level of happiness in spite, not in spite of him. - But because of? - Because of? Yeah. - Does that mean we're going to submit a certain level of expression? Because most of us are not in that position. - No, no. Okay, I'll just repeat that question. Martin was just saying, I was saying earlier, that the Buddha was happy not in spite of the fact that he had nothing, but because he had nothing. So how does that work? And it was to do with, does that mean many of us are going to be frustrated? Well, we are, aren't we? We do get frustrated. Is anybody here completely and utterly happy? I do, I do, yeah. So, are you rich? - Are you quite? - I'm outside. - Are you quite poor? - Poorly. Okay, so at least, your happiness at least does not seem to depend on, on extraneous things, yeah, yeah. And you've been practicing for a long time. And so have I, I've been practicing for over 35 years now. And I was, I was doing a class for people, students who were learning how to be school teachers of religious education. And halfway through the afternoon, somebody asked me, one of them asked me, so do you ever, you know, feel like you really want something, like a car or something, or do you ever get frustrated, do you haven't got certain things? And I could very happily and honestly say, no, actually, I just not interested. I'm not interested in cars or computers or mobile phones. I've got a mobile phone, but I'm not interested in it. Yeah, I don't sort of do things with it. When I went to get a mobile phone, the guy was just saying, you can do this. And I said, I don't want one of those. I just want one that does texts and phones people. I don't need to take photographs and things like that and go on the net. I just, and he didn't let me have one. Didn't let me have one. So he had to get, anyway. Coming back, you can be serious now. Coming back, I said something quite shocking in a way. It doesn't, and quite radical. The Buddha was happy, not in spite of the fact that he had nothing, but because he had nothing. And it's not that if we have things, that's going to make us unhappy. But it depends on our relationship with our ownership. Unfortunately, possession often comes with attachment. It's very hard to possess something without also being emotionally attached. And what do I mean by emotionally attached? I mean emotionally dependent on something. And what that means is, if that thing were taken away, once happiness would drop, you would feel low and somehow diminished. That is what emotional attachment is. You need that thing for your continued happiness. And the Buddha simply didn't need any of those things. He didn't need anything for his continued happiness because it came from within. It came from that sense of inner abundance that he spent many, many years working on. I was thinking of saying this in the talk, but I'll say it now that I am not a naturally happy person. I'm prone to depression. I've had many episodes of depression in my life. And it's taken me a long, long time to learn the art of happiness. It is hard one happiness, I must say. I know some people are just naturally happy, aren't they? Some people are just naturally happy. I know a number of people like that, and I used to feel very, very envious of them when one of them how they did it. But they didn't do anything. They were just naturally like that. But it's taken me a long time, many, many years of practice to learn how to be happy. Yes? Well, well, you can't speak. As you talked about, I feel, yeah, I don't own my songs, but you make me happy and you make me a young happy. When you don't know? Yes. You don't own your loved ones. If you start to start with me, you stop being happy, doesn't it? That's true. That's true. Yeah. So the chances are more than being happy. And if that's what's going to happen, you know, what you're thinking about. And you've got fun in a year, you know, and that's something, you know? It's a very good point. So I'll just repeat that. Yes, but, what's your name? Kate. Kate was saying yes, but she has a son, your son. I have a daughter also. And like you, if my daughter was to come to some kind of injury, it would make me very, very unhappy. It's actually very, very hard to love without attachment, isn't it? Very, very hard. Buddhism gives us a very, very big challenge. And I'm nowhere near meeting that challenge yet. My girlfriend, my daughter, my close friends, my family, it would make me very, very unhappy if any harm were to come to them. You know, I'm pretty sure it'd make the Buddha unhappy if anybody close to him was harmed as well. So maybe we can make a distinction here between different kinds of happiness. I think the happiness that I'm driving at is a deeper kind of sense of deep fulfilments and sense of purpose in life. It's not a kind of, it's not anything dependent on such things as well being of oneself and one's loved ones. So I think it's possible to feel deep grief. I can't really say that you can be happy the same time as feeling grief. So yeah, you've got a very good point. I'm not quite sure how to finish off my answer. There's something that we can reflect on there is that I will reflect on that now. Thank you. So how would you think they would like to reject the world or maybe other worlds? How would you recognise what your needs are and what your desires are? How do you recognise the difference between what your needs are and what your desires are? Yeah, because obviously, you know, we live in a modern society and we have need because we depend actually on the economy, we've got to have a job, and thanks to survive. So my question is, how would you recognise what you really need and what is your desire? How do you recognise what you really need and what is your desire? It's just literally needs and wants really, isn't it? Yeah, it was. Once. I think you just do, after some years of practice, you begin to realise that I don't need that and I've never really needed it either. Or maybe at some point in your development, you did need that, but now you've grown out of it and you don't really need it anymore. And sometimes it takes us a while to recognise that. I did have a car until about nine months ago and it's an old car and it didn't pass its MOT and it would do cos far too much to get it for its MOTs, so I let it go and I let it go so easily. If I was pleased, I thought, oh, good. I can let it go at last cos I didn't have to think about selling it or anything, I said, just send it to the scrapyard and that's the end of it for me. And there was this sense of freedom, which I would not have done on my own, which was a meme, so it was as it were taken away from me and I thought, you know, I don't need that car and I probably never really did need it, but I kind of thought that I did, you know. So, I don't think there's a definite answer to your question cos I think it depends on the person and where they're at. The more in the abundance you have, the less you need things. So, it depends on where you're at in terms of your inner resources, really. I think it's more how we relate to things. That's like, for example, obviously I need my computer to do some work, but it's my need, but probably I wouldn't if I didn't have to do work and I don't have to write, maybe myself, et cetera, it wouldn't be a necessary thing for me to be happy. Yeah, but on the other hand, if it was taken away from you, how would you feel? Well, I would talk to you about it when you were... LAUGHTER OK, cos I've got a computer and if it was taken away from me, I wouldn't really care very much. Hi, I would just think, OK, go and get a new one then. I mean, I need one for my work and I'd be very happy not to have one in my home. You know, I'm just not interested. I think I live in a very simple life, actually, at first. You do? You do? Yeah. But I think that I've got fully things which I wouldn't necessarily in my life. I live in the world, I wouldn't cover my measurements like a little in the box. I haven't got very much stuff on from quotes and I can't be done a few books. And, you know, when I don't need things, I just give them away. I just give them to charity shops. But I think there's some things in my life which I really genuinely need. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People are drifting off, aren't they? I wonder if we should bring this to a close? One last, yeah. Can you speak a bit louder? I've got a comment, so I'm going to take about a week and have a week and a week. I've got two friends with mine, they're both going to be very nervous. One of them is very focused in terms of using their own resources to cope with that. The other one is actually going very much after she's gone out and she shops to grow up. I just wonder whether that might be a code thing which really is really about hand-drawing the window of my notes. Oh. I just want to start this English family thinking partnership with the relationship with others because they've been searching for it externally and creating your something to fill the gap. Yes. And Kate is nodding. You agree with that? Are you Kate? I've seen my dad, you know. I'm not probably the end of the talk that I have. I'm not familiar with his book. Is that his and I, in my own way, you know, are you the fact that he's, you know, sort of the knock of the game? And I think he's still with me. Yes, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad you've revisited that. So try and summarize because people won't be able to hear you on the recording. What's your name? Lynn Marie. Lynn Marie. You were, Lynn Marie was saying that to come back to this issue of happiness and grief, and isn't it human in a way to feel grief when someone close to you dies, would you want to be the kind of person who didn't feel grief when somebody dies? And you were saying that you think there's different ways of experiencing grief, depending on ones in abundance. Yeah. Some people can feel grief when they're okay feeling that grief, and other people, the example you might go shopping until they drop kind of thing. Yeah. I have something to add to that, but I can't remember what it was now, but that's very well put, I think. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So it's not as if we're going to try and be happy all the time, because there are certain things that happen in the world which are bad, which are downright bad, which we really do not want to happen. Which are very bad for us, not only us, but other people too. And it would be a bit funny if we were just happy all the time, you know, in the face of death and disease. It wouldn't be quite right, would it? It seems natural and human to feel grief when it's the time to feel grief. Yeah. So happiness isn't always about feeling cheerful. I think I mentioned that, didn't I, when I was talking about happiness is not happy, clappy. It's not determinably cheerful. Yeah. But over a long period of time, it's what in psychology is called a trait rather than a state. A long, over a long period of time, you feel a sense of deep happiness. And the way that author put it was a deep connection with life, wasn't it? That's the way she put it. Yeah. We hope you enjoyed this week's podcast. Please help us keep this free. Make a contribution at freebuddhistaudio.com/donate. And thank you. [MUSIC] [BLANK_AUDIO]
