(upbeat music) - This podcast is brought to you by Free Buddhist Audio, the Dharma for real life. Our work is funded entirely by donations from our generous listeners. If you would like to help us keep this free, come and join us at freebuddhistaudio.com/community. Thank you and happy listening. - So renunciation without pure body mind does not bring forth the perfect bliss of unsurpassed enlightenment. Therefore bodhisattvas generate excellent bodied mind. Swept by the current of the four powerful rivers, tied by strong bonds of karma so hard to undo, caught in the iron net of self grasping, completely enveloped by the darkness of ignorance, born and reborn in boundless samsara, carelessly tormented by the three miseries. All beings, your mother, are in this condition. Think of them and generate bodied mind. So the first stage of Sankharva's three principle paths is renunciation, as we've just heard. And renunciation is when we have a good look at samsara and we say enough of particular worldly things in my life. I don't want them anymore, they don't help. I don't need them anymore. And sometimes you can get this sense like I think actually I was born with this sense, that I've been traveling this road of existence for lifetimes and lifetimes and lifetimes. And if I wasn't so selfish, I'm just really bored. So it's that kind of thing where you just say enough to the old kind of foolish habits. And finally, here I am in this rebirth with the means to liberation, with the opportunity of liberation, and I'm not going to waste it. So Banti calls this the trend of wisdom when we decide to abandon the mundane and move towards the transcendental, move more in the direction of the transcendental. Which is quite a big thing, actually, in people's lives. It's quite a big thing, but as Sankharva says, we've got further to go. Because the spiritual life is not just about your own liberation, it's not just about releasing your own suffering, about seeing your own suffering, it's also about seeing the suffering of others. And it's very important that we do this. It's very important that we broaden our perspective in our spiritual life at every level to include others. Because there's an inherent danger with a spiritual life. There's a big yawning trap in the spiritual life. And it's the trap is called, in Banti's word, pseudo-spiritual aestheticism. (audience laughing) So I think it's one of my favourite little catchphases as I've got loads for Banti's, oops. pseudo-spiritual aestheticism. So this is when you're concerned with your own suffering about your own liberation and your own happiness in a spiritual sense. So it is quite, you've got a spiritual sense. You understand certain negative patterns leading to suffering. You want to be liberated. So you start to refine Samsara. Sudden Ali touched on this. They're actually, what you can do is you start to use the three jewels to refine your experience. So it's just that bit easier. You're polishing the wheel. So it's even, it could be even be true of tara-loka. You know, we get it quite easy at tara-loka. We've got all these tees that we can choose. A bit overwhelming sometimes. And we've got this beautiful shrine room, really comfortable surroundings, really beautiful grounds. And, you know, it's a very conducive to meditation. So you can go and meditate and you can feel pretty good by yourself and quite refined. You know, you can just get Samsara a little bit easier for yourself and then something happens. Something happens like, I remember, there was always this thing with tara-loka. You know, I'd get here and I'd get myself all sorted with the right cushions and everything. And I think, yeah, we have this great tiana, it's gonna be brilliant. And then they have these really buzzy lights. And I was thinking, Ashley, I'll have a better meditation at home because to be here is like being stuck in a room with a fridge. It's like meditating in my kitchen. Anyway, I think they've sorted them out now. But, well, it's interesting. So, you might have that thing where you get all your meditation sorted. And then there's someone sitting next to you who ruffles or has a tiki watch or something like that. And you get really irritated, you know, "Here am I trying to do the metabarbner." And then there's you with your russly, russly clothes and your tiki watch and your shuffling around. They're kind of just sits still for one minute so I can put you in your metabarbner. So, that's what happens. We get into this refined state of mind and then we get a bit precious about it. You know, and if it's okay as far as it goes, but if someone intervenes with our refined state of consciousness, we'll end the trouble really starts. You know, I have actually, for real, heard the comment from someone who was supporting a day retreat added. He said, "I'm sorry, I've just got to leave "because I've just found this pain in my side "and I think it's to do with my mother." Well, there's not a lot you can answer to that, you know. The call of the Sanger has asked you to support a day retreat, but if you've got a feeling, you know, I just feel like there's a subtle pain to do with my mother. Maybe now isn't the time to explore that. (audience laughing) So yeah, so we can get a little bit refined. We can get, start polishing the wheel, even in the spiritual sense. And it's a big trap. It's a big trap. Bunty was asked about this approach to the spiritual life and someone said, well, you know, it must lead somewhere. You know, he's quite good, at least you are refining some, sorry, at least you are moving towards, you know, your own liberation. And he said, hmm, no, it doesn't lead anywhere at all. So unfortunately, pseudo-spiritual aestheticism doesn't lead anywhere at all. And why doesn't it lead anywhere at all? Because the Buddhist path is about transcending self-preoccupation. It's not about refining your self-preoccupation. It's about transcending the difference between self and other, not just refining the self. So it is a big trap. And we have to be aware of that trap at every level, in every moment, the danger of pseudo-spiritual aestheticism. And in a way, this is the point that Sankra was making. He says, well, we need more the renunciation. We need more than seeing our own suffering. We need to unite that with seeing the suffering of others and cultivating a real desire to help others. Renunciation without pure body mind does not bring forth the perfect bliss of unsurpassed enlightenment. So this is quite interesting because it's something actually that Banti talks about in the survey of Buddhism, where he says, for the Bodhi Chitta to arise, the Bodhi Chitta is when your heart and mind are completely united behind enlightenment. You long for enlightenment, but it's not just for yourself, it's for the sake of all beings. And he says, the Bodhi Chitta arises when you have two opposing forces, the opposing forces of withdrawal and in engagement. So it's the two opposing forces of renunciation and compassion, withdrawal and engagement or wisdom and compassion. And he says, as a spark leaps up when two electrically charged terminals are brought into contact. So the Bodhi Chitta arises not from theoretical considerations, but from the conjunction in the spiritual life of the devotee of two quite different, seemingly divergent trends of thought and emotion. The art of producing the Bodhi Chitta consists in so stimulating these two trends that the mounting tension between them ultimately causes them to coalesce at a higher level of spiritual awareness. So I'll unpack that a bit. In a way, what he said is, you've got these two trends. So you've got the trend of wisdom and the trend of wisdom is when you start abandoning the mundane and move towards the transcendental. So that's the trend of wisdom or the trend of renunciation or the trend of withdrawal. So that trend meets another trend, which is the trend of compassion or the trend of engagement. And the trend of engagement is when you abandon the transcendental and start moving towards beings. Ultimately, you don't abandon the transcendental by doing that at all, but it's that kind of movement away from just settling into some sort of refined spiritual experience and moving towards other beings. So there's a movement away from the world and a movement towards the world. And what's really interesting about the way Banti talks about that is that it goes against this idea that we're ever going to achieve a balance. We're ever going to achieve a balance between self and others. Because I think what happens is in our life, we try and we have this picture that, you know, what I'm going to do is I'm going to manage my life really, really creatively. And then I'll have just enough engagement with other people and just enough kind of time on my own practice and time away from others. And that's what I look for in my life. I'm just going to get the right work life balance. Sometimes it's called the women's hour, at least. If you listen to women's hour. So I'm going to just get it all sorted. I'm going to get my spiritual life really nice myself and it's all going to rearrange self and other. It's all going to be equal. And then I'm going to have enough energy to deal with other people and enough energy for myself. And it's all going to be really greedy. But actually that's impossible. It's impossible because they're two divergent trends, withdrawal and engagement and two divergent trends. And actually you can't solve them on its own level, on their own level. You can only transcend them. And you transcend them by realizing there's no difference between self and other anyway. So what Banti is saying is that in a way, you have to make those two trends worse. You have to really struggle with them. You have to really, really, really feel your own suffering and want to be liberated from your own suffering. And you have to really, really feel the suffering of others and want them to be liberated as well. You have to intensify that conflict, not try and make it all work out neatly and not try and make it all kind of balance on its own level. He talks about those two trends being wrenched in both directions simultaneously. So what he's saying in ways is you've got to be wrenched. You've got to feel yourself pull apart. And out of that pulling apart arises the Bodhi Chitta because you can't solve those trends on their own level. So I think in a way, this is what Sankapal's trying to do. He's in the first part, he's got a very, very vivid evocation of the desire for withdrawal, the urgency for your own liberation. He's saying there's no time to waste, reverse attraction to this life, reverse attraction to future life, think repeatedly of the infallible effects of karma and the misery of the world. So he's really trying to push us into really feeling our own suffering and the urgency of liberation for ourselves. And then he goes into a very, very vivid evocation of the desire for engagement. So he uses very, very strong imagery to help us to see that it's not only us who are suffering, it's other people as well. So he says, swept by the current of the four powerful rivers tied by the strong bonds of karma so hard to undo, caught in the iron net of self-grasping, completely enveloped by the darkness of ignorance, born and reborn in boundless samsara, carelessly demented by the three miseries, all beings, your mothers, are in this condition. Think of them and generate Bodhi mind. So there's quite a few images in there which I'll just have a bit of a deeper look at. And the first one is of being swept away by the current of the four powerful rivers. So I don't know if you've ever actually had that when you've gone into a river and been swept away when actually the force of the river is more powerful than you. I've had that once when I was in Indonesia and it was absolutely terrifying because I had no control whatsoever. And, you know, I'm a pretty strong swimmer. All of these, I thought I was a pretty strong swimmer. But, you know, I thought, I'll just get into this river. And actually I was hanging onto the side so I didn't even kind of go out, my depth or anything. I was hanging onto the side, got in there as soon as my weight was in the water, I couldn't even hold onto the side. And it was only because there was something further downstream that caught me, but I was able to get out. It's a terrifying thing to happen to you. And that's what Sankapo is saying, that all beings are like that. We're all being swept away beyond our control in the four powerful rivers. So the first river is desire. We're always wanting something more. We're never content with what we have. And part of that might be the right part of that is actually because we know, you know, in our heart of hearts we might get a sense that we can be something much more. We could be spiritual beings. We could achieve limitless wisdom and compassion. And why be content with where you are now? If you can do that. Why be content with your unethical behavior? You know, it's rotten. It's absolute rotten. There's no excuses for it. So maybe in a sense, you know, there is an aspect of desire of dharma chanda to really want to be liberated. But a lot of that desire we end up putting in the wrong things and looking for satisfaction in the wrong places, even looking for liberation in the wrong places. So we end up in this situation where we're always wanting the next thing because the next thing is going to make us happy. Only we're looking for that thing in the wrong place and it doesn't, it doesn't work. Over and over and over again, it doesn't work. But we never seem to learn our lesson. We're just caught up by this desire. We can't find a foothold. We can't find anything to cling on to. It's just repeated desire again and again and again. A bit like a hamster on one of those little wheels, you know, always looking for the next thing and not realizing that actually you're staying still. So that's the first river, the river of desire and then the river of baba of existence. So we're always trying to confirm our existence. We're always trying to say to the world, I exist. I have these things, I live in this place. I have this boyfriend or girlfriend. Therefore I exist. Or it might be along the lines of, I really hate you and therefore I exist. Or this is what I like and this is what I don't like. You know, I am the kind of person who doesn't like barleycup and dancing on SWBO retreats and crocs. So therefore I exist, that's the kind of person that I am. You know, I've now defined myself. And I like certain things that I really like Sheffield. I've got such an identity thing about Sheffield, which is really peculiar because I didn't even get brought up there. I'm completely a southerner. So it's a bit odd, but in a way that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to create an identity for ourselves all the time. Create an existence. And it's very painful, it's very very alienating because what it means is that if I'm trying to define my existence all the time, I'm doing that in opposition to other people. So if I become the kind of person who doesn't like barleycup and doesn't like crocs and does like Sheffield, well what happens, what's my relationship going to be like to a person from Suffolk who wears crocs and drinks barleycup? That you might be thinking really nervously, "Oh my gosh, she doesn't like crocs. She won't be my friend." So in some sense, I mean it's all right, I've got over it, I drink barleycup now. Not crocs, yeah. Yeah, I haven't left Sheffield and I don't wear crocs, but I think possibly that's the next day, crocs, not Sheffield. So anyway, in a way what we're doing is by defining our existence all the time, we just get swept up in our own opinions of ourselves and it alienates us from others, it's very painful to experience because we separate ourselves off from others. And the third river is the river of ignorance, Avidya. So the way Banti talks about ignorance in this sense is quite interesting because he says it's when we see everything in terms of what we can get out of it, everything in terms of our own utility. So he uses the example of a tree. A tree becomes something that's just going to give us a load of matchsticks, which basically means a load of money, instead of being a manifestation of life, of growth, of beauty. So instead of seeing the beauty of the tree, you just see the matchsticks. And in a way, that's what we're doing all the time. We're seeing things in terms of what we can get out of it, what we can get out of people, in fact. So instead of people being this indescribable sort of crystallization of conditions, sometimes you get this sense when you've been doing them at a bar for a lot and the people are just absolutely fascinating. And you can't get to the bottom of them and you can't sum them up or predict what they're going to do. And you just love them for it anyway. You can get this sense of just loving the mystery of other. But if we're trapped in Avidya, it means that instead of seeing them as this kind of indescribably beautiful mystery, what we see them in terms of is, well, this person is going to comfort me when I feel down, or this person's quite practical, so they're quite useful as a sort of DIY handyman. Or this person can be my counselor, or my best friend, or my lover, or whatever. This person's going to be my entertainer, my home help, all those sorts of things. So we see people in terms of what we can get out of them, which is a great shame. It's a great shame because it really limits our communication with them. And usually, well, they don't conform to what we want them to be. They don't conform to our utility or our expectations. And we miss out on real communication. So it's swept away by this river of ignorance, of always looking at things in terms of what we can get out of them. And we're swept away by a river of views. So all we have is a map of reality that's completely out of date and unhelpful, usually, unless it's based in the Dharma, or Bandhi's teachings, more specifically, as far as I'm concerned. Our map of reality is just a bit useless. But the funny thing about our map of reality that's a bit useless is that we're really stubborn about it. And it's our map, so therefore, it's right. So if anyone else has got a different map of reality, we can get a bit annoyed about that. And if someone questions our map of reality, someone may be a bit wiser than ourselves, as well, really is Sheffield, north of Scotland? And you're going, yes, because it's north of everywhere, because it's the north. It's the best place, it's the highest place in the universe. So it's got to be north of everywhere, to use a slightly stupid example. But in a way, what happens is we get into these views. And these views aren't just thoughts. They're not just thoughts that we have about reality. They're real opinions, very, very deep opinions that we hold about our own identity and about the identity of others and our place in the world. And sometimes, in meditation, you can kind of, you start touching what your real views might be underneath it all. And you realize that you've constructed a life based on this view and that the view doesn't hold. And now, I've recently come back from a solitary retreat where I've uncovered a very, very deep view about myself, which goes something along the lines of, if I don't work hard enough, people are going to think I'm a slacker. So my whole identity is about me working for the Dharma. And that alone is going to do it for me. So that's a view, it's like, in any way, if you take someone and come to a field about that, they go, you not work hard enough. What are you talking about, you know? But there's a view underneath there about myself, which is my whole identity, my whole identity. And in a way, it's a attachment to rights and rituals. Because what it's saying about myself is that's enough. I've just got to work really hard for the Dharma and then I'll be enlightened. But actually, the work of the Dharma is much deeper than that. It's not just about constructing an identity. It's about really transforming your states of mind. So that's a little example of a view, but views are very deep, they're very deeply held. And most of the time, we're not even aware of what they are. And when we are aware, we do become aware of what those views are. It's very, very painful and very hard to undo. So we're swept away by this opinion of ourselves. And we're not in control, we're not in control. We're swept away by the rivers of desire, of existence, of ignorance and views. And we don't have control. And we can see this around us. It's not just ourselves, obviously. In this part of the text, some of us talking about other people and seeing it in other people. And it's not a pretty picture. Sankapar goes even further, it goes even further than just being swept away by a mighty river. We're also trapped by strong bonds of karma and the iron neck of self-grasping. So I was thinking about karma in these terms and thinking about our habits. The strong bonds of karma are when we get into a particular habit. And the more we act out that habit, the more we're likely we are to do that in the future. So we just go round and round, the same old habits. And the more we do them, the more they bind us, the more likely we are to do them in the future. We kind of carve out a groove in our being and we just go deeper and deeper until it becomes a rut. And we just go through that same rut every time. And we get trapped by that. But actually, there's one commentary on the Sankapar when it says not only you in this kind of powerful mighty river, all beings in this powerful mighty river, they're also tied up and thrown in the river. So it's not even two separate images. You're all trapped in your karma and floating down this river. Swept away by this river. And he also uses the image of an iron net, iron chains. And I don't know if anyone's ever actually picked up iron chains, but I just made a shrine on Tuesday out of iron chains, which I got out of the workshop in the Shekhel-Grusen. For some reason, we have an enormous abundance of iron chains in our workshop. I don't know why, but I was picking on these chains. And they're quite, you know, I was thinking, because I was thinking about this imagery of Sankapar. I was thinking, God, you know, imagine being all wrapped up in these iron chains. You can't pull them apart. You can't break them. And I've got to tell you, they're slightly dirty as well. You know, they really would ruin your t-shirt if you got kind of tied up in them. So it's not a pretty picture. So yes, we've got the iron net of self-grasping. We're trapped in this net of self-grasping. In another translation, it says, we're stuffed in a steel cage of grasping self. And I was thinking about that. And I was thinking, well, all of us have this opinion of who we are and our identity and what our kind of sphere of experience is going to be, what the condition of our consciousness is going to be. So we've got this really fixed idea about who we are and what we're going to experience. And then we trap ourselves by that opinion. So, you know, sometimes you can see it with a friend. They might get really upset about something. And maybe they have quite a lot of self-doubt. Maybe they don't think that they're worth very much. Or maybe they think they're not able to practice the dharma. So from their point of view, they're coming and they say, well, you know, I can't really meditate. I can't really ask for ordination. I can't get a no-one a lever all day me. And they have this, you know, they have all this self-doubt. They have this opinion of themselves, which is quite limited. And then from my perspective, what goes on is that I can just see that that's utter nonsense. And in a way, it's that view itself that's trapping them. It's not anything external. It's their own self-view. And I tell you, from my point of view, it's just tragic. You know, because what I want to do is I want to pick them up by their ankles and just shake it up and go, it's not true. You know, that is the only thing that's holding you back. It's your own kind of belief in your own limitations, your own self-grasping. Because what we do is we invent a self for ourselves and then we grasp after it. No matter how unpleasant it is, no matter how limited it is, because it's us, because it's our view, we cling onto it. And what that means is that it's very hard to move beyond. We're always setting up a limitation. We're always confining ourselves in a steel cage of grasping self, from which it's very hard to move on, because we don't believe we can. So one of the things maybe you could explore in your groups is just thinking, well, what is your steel cage that you're setting up for yourself? You know, is it I can't meditate? I can't get ordained. I can't study the Dharma. I'll never understand the Dharma. I'll never be able to read the survey, whatever it is. I'll never be able to enjoy a meditation retreat or a solitary retreat or something. Because all those are just views, they're just views and they can find us, because we start living a bit like having that image of the donkey, actually. You know, so the donkey is tethered and it goes round and round this well. And then if you take away the rope, if you take away the tether, well, the donkey probably would just carry on going round and round and round, because that's all it believes it can do. And we're all in this position where we can, where we've defined our parameters and we're just going to stick within them, no matter how painful or limited they are. So you watch people, you watch people strapped, trapped by the strong bonds of karma, going round and round the same old tendencies again and again and again, with the same old view of themselves, which is very trapping themselves in their own view, in their own self that they've created. And it's very painful to watch. I remember having a friend who is an abusive relationship and I spent a long time helping her to get out of that relationship. And, you know, endless conversations, endless talking to the man involves trying to get him away. And finally we'd managed it and had moved out the house and they were separated. And, you know, she was feeling a bit more encouragement about who she could be and we'd gone into the reasons about why she got into the relationship in the first place and all this sort of stuff. And it was also, I thought, oh, finally she's free of it. And then she's just kept on sleeping with him. And I'd kind of see her then she'd be away from home for a night. And I think, oh, no, where is she? And then she'd come back and then she'd say, oh, no, I just couldn't help myself. And it was really painful because I could see what was good for her, but she couldn't see it for herself. And in a way, because she was swept along by these rivers and caught in this net. And in a way, that's a bit of an extreme example, but that's what we're doing all the time. We're just going round and round the wheel of samsara. Swept along by these mighty rivers and trapped in these steel chains. And Sankbar goes further than this. He says, we're also trapped. Not only are we swept along in a river bound up by our own chains, we're also in the dark. So we can't see the truth. We can't see the way out. We can't even see what's real. We can't even really see what's a benefit. And this is suffering. This is a very, very strong evocation of suffering that we keep going back to samsara. We keep going round and round the wheel of samsara again and again. He says, we're born and reborn in boundless samsara, carelessly tormented by the three miseries. So the three miseries are the three forms of dukkha, which you might be familiar with. And which are actual physical dukkha, the suffering of suffering, so actual physical pain, loss, grief, hurt, all those things. The suffering of impermanence, which means that we have the suffering that even if we enjoy something, it doesn't last forever. And we're always anticipating that change on some subtle level. And even more important than this is the pervasive or existential suffering, where we're not living in accordance with our potential. So I think this is quite important, because when Sankarpa is talking about suffering, he's not just saying you've got to imagine everyone, you know, crying their eyes out or beating their brow or, you know, in this terrible dukk state. He's actually talking about something also much deeper than that. It's the suffering of a wasted life. And in a way, the suffering of wasted lives is even worse. And that's what you start seeing when you start to spiritually progress. That's what you start seeing when you start to release yourself from the wheel of life. You look back and you see that, OK, when people might be have on the surface of it, quite happy lives. It's not like everything's going wrong all the time. But actually, you can see underneath that, and you can see that they could be so much more. That actually, in some ways, they're not achieving their full potential in some ways. Well, it's OK as far as it goes. But in some ways, they're wasting their lives. And that's not OK. That's not OK when you've got the means to liberation, when you can see what you can really do with your life. You know, you might have found this treasure. It's like you found the treasure of the dharma. And you know that it applies to everyone. And that everyone could use it. And you still see that people are living in poverty. And that in some way, that's unnecessary. So I think it's that kind of suffering that Sankha is really talking about. There's worldly misery. But there's also just a suffering of a wasted life, of a missed opportunity, which, in a way, is much more terrifying than any other kind of suffering. And this is the vision of the Buddha, the vision of the Buddha when he became enlightened. In a way, my favorite descriptions of enlightenment are from Banti in the Adana Seminar, the one that was given in a tent on top of the hill in Cornwall. And he describes the Buddha's enlightenment very vividly. So I'll just read you a bit of what he says about that. He says, "The Buddha saw a whole vast process "of individual existence. "He saw how it comes into existence, "how it develops and how it passes away, "and how the whole thing is involved with suffering. "He saw it in one great direct flush, as it were, "and in a very sort of vivid and immediate fashion. "He started looking around and he saw how individual beings "came into existence as a result of what they had done "in their previous lives, how they perpetuated "the whole process and how they passed out into another life." So that's what the Buddha saw. He saw that we're trapped in the wheel of samsara, that we go round and round, the same old thing again and again and again. But the Buddha also saw how it can change. He also saw that there is the possibility of liberation. And that we can be free from the wheel of samsara, that we can be liberated, not just us, but all beings. So that's the vision of suffering. It's seeing people suffering, seeing their wasted lives and also seeing that they can change, that they can be liberated. And it's also realizing that you are implicated, you are implicated in other people's suffering because you're not separate from them. Their suffering is in some way your suffering. So Sankarpa talks about all beings, your mothers, our beings, your mothers are in this condition. So the traditional Tibetan view is that because we've been reborn again and again and again, everyone at some point has been our mothers. So I don't think that quite works for Westerners. Maybe it does for some of you, which is great, but I think some of us have to think imaginatively around this, also depending on what real relationship to your mother is really. I say mine is very good, just in case you ever use this talk. I really love you, Mom, and I'm really grateful for never ever disowning me at any point. Anyway, enough about my mother. Yes, I think we've got to work with our imaginations with this and see that in a way the principle is to not write other people off, is to not write other people's suffering off because it's not your suffering, or because they're not related to you or close to you. 'Cause I think sometimes it's also sort of overwhelming other people's suffering that we can think, wow, you know, they're in Africa, I just have no conception of what it's like to live in Africa. So I'm just gonna kind of close the door on that. And it's always, that's okay, 'cause we need to protect ourselves to a certain extent. But actually, when we're looking at other people's suffering, it's important to realize that it's possible. It's possible to really care about other people's suffering, even if they're not related to you, even if they're not your friend, even if you don't like them, even if they're not yourself. So I think the principle is to always extend the boundaries of your compassion, 'cause we've all got a limit somewhere. And in a way, that limit is a bit arbitrary. So it might be the limit of people you know, people you like, people you think deserve your compassion. But all those limitations, well, they're just slightly arbitrary. They're just a limit of your imagination. They're not really anything true about existence itself. So what Sompopo is asking you to do by imagining that everyone was at one time your mother, is he's asking you to extend the boundaries of your compassion just a little bit further each time. And maybe have an intimacy with other people's suffering, not just your own, but other people's. And other people maybe who you don't know that well, maybe other people who you don't like. Maybe other people who don't even deserve your compassion. It brings to mind Shanti David's very famous quote from the Bodhi Cherry Vittara, where he says, "I should dispel the sufferings of others "because it is suffering like my own suffering. "I should help others because they're living beings "as I am a living being. "When we all want happiness and all fear suffering, "what is so special about me "that I only look after myself?" So it's seeing suffering as just suffering, not mine or yours, but just suffering, and suffering that can be alleviated. And it's also longing for liberation. So you see suffering, you see the suffering of yourself, you see the suffering of others, you see that other suffering is no different from your own suffering, you see that it's possible to be liberated, and then you long for liberation, long for liberation for all of us, for all of us from this whole sorry mess of samsara, not just me, not just you, but all of us together. And in a way, just talking about it, it's likely less pretentiously in a sense, it's meta, that's what meta really is. It's wanting yourselves and others to be happy, and compassion, wanting yourself and others to be free from suffering, free from this mad world, and free from running around the same old circles again and again and again, longing for other people to be free of a wasted life, longing for people to use their lives well, longing for liberation. And in a way, I think that's why sometimes people ask me, oh, you know, I've been doing the phrases in the metabarbana for ages, and can I just not do them anymore? And obviously, what you do in your own minds is completely up to you. But I kind of think, well, I haven't got to the bottom of those phrases yet, and I've been meditating for 14 years or something. So, and I feel like every time I say, may you be well, may you be happy, may you be free from suffering, and may you progress? Well, I haven't really understood what that means, and I haven't really got to the bottom of that vision that all people can be free from suffering, and that they can all progress. Because if I really understood that, if I really believed those phrases with all my heart, I wouldn't waste my time. I'd spend every single moment of my existence to help attain the liberation of myself and the liberation for others. But I don't. I waste lots of time on stupid things, like foreign ball paint. So, in a sense, you know, drop the phrases if you like, but speaking myself personally, I don't think I've got to the bottom of what that really means. And I don't think I've really got that vision of existence yet. So, it's that it's meta and compassion. And Sankapa says to unite that with the force, with the trend of withdrawal. And when you stimulate those two forces, when you stimulate those two trends, you make a real tension, you know, a real kind of vivid experience if you're being, in your being of wanting to withdraw and wanting to engage, then the bodicitta can arise. And it also means that you can be a lot more used to everyone else than if you didn't have those trends. Because it's no good just, well, I've said before, if we just get into our own tendency to withdraw, if our own trend to want to liberate ourselves from samsara, then there's the danger of pseudo-spiritual aestheticism. And if we get too drawn into just trying to help everyone else, well, then we just become busybodies. And we don't really help anyone because we're not coming from a very kind of real place. So we need those two trends to really make a difference to a world where we really need to feel our own spiritual practice and really do it. You know, don't just pretend to do it, really do it, really take the dharma into effect in your own life. And then really engage with others and help them to be liberated too. And if you can do that, it comes down to, you know, there's lots of bodhicitta practices that we can do, like the puja and series of reflections and all of those things. But I think, in a way, the most important for us is the practice of sanga. That's the real bodhicitta practice. And because in a way, we're doing it together. We're doing it together for the benefit of everyone. And it means that we can engage with our own liberation, our own spiritual practice. But we can engage in that spiritual practice in the context of others. And I think that's a tremendous and exciting opportunity. But we were talking about what, I can't remember what the question was, but paraphrase it, something like, what's so great about the dharma. Actually, everyone just talked about the sanga on my little table. Because in a way, we've got this unique opportunity. We've got other people who we can do it with, who we can, in a sense, practice on, who are also practicing. Because I, for one, can't do it on my own. I need to do it with others. And the best experiences in my whole life of when I've been working in a team with other people. And we're really practicing. And even better, if one of those people in a team you really don't like. Fantastic. [LAUGHTER] So yes. So sanga is the unique opportunity. It's the unique opportunity for going beyond our self preoccupation, for relieving us of the danger of pseudo-spiritual aestheticism. I don't know why I've got to say it in that stupid voice. It lends itself. Yeah, but it's a unique opportunity because we can, I've completely lost-- I don't know what I'm talking about on those. It's a unique opportunity because we can do it together. And we can really practice together going beyond ourselves, going beyond self preoccupation, going beyond our own limitations, going beyond the iron net of self grasping. And in a way, it's our friends who pull us out of those strong rivers as well. I've just made that up, but I think it's quite good. It's our friends who pull us out of the river and untie us. So I just like to end with a quote from Aloka from a recent reporting in He Did in Shubder. And to instantly, I did ask because it was for all the members only. I'll have asked if I can use this and find it. But sometimes I really like the way that Aloka puts things. So I'm just going to finish with this quote from him. He says, "I think the primary function of all order members is the creation of Sangha. You can call it overcoming the subject object's dichotomy, or Caliana Mitrata, or realizing Bodhi Chitta, or seeing with naked awareness, the list is probably endless. But practically speaking, it means becoming less self-centred and realizing the world does not revolve around ourselves." Awareness of others and our interconnectedness and the necessary compassion to see that is the key to pretty much everything. Tall order I know. But again, practically speaking, you have to start somewhere. And that needs to be with others on the same wavelength before you can extend it to life, all life, everywhere. So yes, so practically speaking, these verses, to me anyway, are about being less self-centred and realizing the world does not revolve around ourselves. [APPLAUSE] We hope you enjoyed the talk. Please come and help us keep this free at freebuddhistaudio.com forward slash community. And thank you. 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