DumTeeDum - A show about BBC Radio's 'The Archers'

DTD - 105 - Helen arrested special!

A special edition this Thursday to mark Helen being formally arrested with a wounding charge. Roifield is in sole charge conducting three interviews.DTD have consulted Matthew Scott, a criminal barrister with 30 years of experience, a detailed blog and a keen legal mind who has joined the podcast at great cost. He wisely predicted a formal charge of attempted murder and explains some of the legal processes involved. Henry could well be a witness, but not in the witness box - usually by video link.CPS decide on the prosecution, if Rob chooses not to give evidence this would seriously weaken the prosecution case. http://barristerblogger.com/Paul Trueman's fund raising has continued apace at https://www.justgiving.com/helentitchener/? and has now reached £108k and is looking to raise £125k and gift aid will add hugely to this. More contributions welcomed. Paul has spent some time with the Refuge team in London and finding out how the money will be spent. There will also be merchandise: "Free the Blossom Hill One" T-shirts and tea towels are on the way. https://helenarcherrescuefund.impacttrading.co.uk/Witherspoon is not sure Helen should be regarded as fragile normally but is in a "compromised emotional state" following the trauma of the last two years. He feels that the absence of Helen from Henry's life will be more traumatic than any events he may have witnessed, particularly if Helen is incarcerated for years ahead. Rob will completely deny any responsibility for the incident and blame Helen entirely (and potentially he was defending Henry from his mad mother).Miss Mid City reckons that the village will be divided between the two sides. But there are no character witnesses for Helen as nearly everyone considers her to be unhinged. Pat could be called for the prosecution. It is starting to get interesting she concludes!Kosmo

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Duration:: 52m
Broadcast on:: 08 Apr 2016
Audio Format:: other

Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. With the price of just about everything going up during inflation, we thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, which is apparently a thing. Mint Mobile unlimited, premium wireless! Time to get 30, 30, 30, ready to get 20, 20, 20, ready to get 20, 20, ready to get 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month. So, give it a try at midmobile.com/switch. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month, new customers on first three month plan only, taxes and fees extra, speed slower above 40 gigabytes of detail. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man, then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. Linked in, the place to be, to be. This podcast is a Royfield Brown production. Find others on iTunes. All right, here I know. Hi, I'm Sarah Smith. If you're the type of person that goes to Liberty as other people would go on Safari, and the fact that John Lewis doesn't have a funeral service makes you fret, Sarah Smith cleaning clocks are for you. Sarah Smith, available from Sainsbury's, for the posher washer. Proud sponsors of Dumpty Dum. This week's show is sponsored by Tracey Shevin, who is raising funds for her local cancer unit in Stoke-on-Trent. Her husband Andrew was diagnosed nearly five years ago with stage four cancer. He's been lucky to survive these five years. However, unfortunately, the cancer has spread further, and he's got to the stage where treatment wouldn't be effective. During the five years, Andrew has had several chemotherapy treatments, as well as operations. He's received fabulous treatment by the staff at the hospital, and Tracey would like to give something back to the unit, maybe a comfy chair for a patient or their relatives. If you'd like to donate to her fund, the page is justgiving.com/tracey-chevin. That's C-H-E-V-I-N. Thank you from Tracey Chevin with Dumpty Dog Nancy and Dumpty Mog Pooshk. [Music] So with the stabbing at Blossom Hill cottage the nation is all a quiver with what actually is going to happen next. There is the plot line, the storyline the script writer is going to give us and then there is actually the legal machine. So with that in mind we decided to reach out to Barista and general clever person of all things legal. Matthew Scott for some answers. Matthew. Hello. So before we get down into the meat and potatoes of this, Matthew, can you tell us exactly what your credentials are sir and why you are such a legal legal? I don't know whether I am such a tremendous legal legal. I am a criminal barrister with about 30 years experience and I blog regularly on legal issues but I wouldn't pretend to be one of the top barristers in the country at all. I am an ordinary criminal hack practicing in the west of England. Well wait a minute, when your agent contacted us he told us that you were one of the keenest legal minds in the country and we paid a good money to be on this podcast. Well that's very kind and that's what you have an agent for. [Laughter] Where do we start with this? A woman has been arrested for, I don't know, is it attempted murder? She was arrested for attempted murder. She's been arrested for wounding which is a pretty serious offense in itself but that isn't necessarily going to be what she's charged with for the decision for the CPS in the end when they've considered all the evidence they've got at the moment. My guess is that she's very likely to face a charge of attempted murder because the obvious intention that you stabbed somebody in the abdomen and she hasn't given any explanation to the police. So I think if I was prosecuting this case attempted murder would be very much the forefront of my mind. Okay so we all know as the listeners that she has been emotionally, physically and also raped in the last two years but to the outside world the evidence of this I think is pretty scanned would that be a realistic portrayal? Well at the moment the police and the prosecution know very little of anything about that. I don't know a huge amount about that myself. No it will be difficult for her to prove that history and even if there is that history that cuts both ways because on the one hand it might mean she's more likely to be afraid of him and more likely to be acting in self-defense. On the other hand of course if there's been a history of that sort it gives plenty of motive for her to extract revenge and revenge is no excuse at all for committing a crime. Okay so a crime of this magnitude how long would it be reasonable for the police and the CPS to come up with formal charges and what exactly how exactly does that process look. If you want to do it within I think it's 24 hours. They can get it an extension if there's needs for them to do so but normally thinking it will be within 24 hours. What will happen now is that the papers will be sent to the crime prosecution service and it will be the crime prosecution service rather than the police who decide what the charges should be. Okay and then with the situation with Henry because Henry was at least witness to something. He's a child who's what five and what's the situation regarding him and him being interrogated and even potentially you know can a five year old actually go into the dark how does that work. Well five year I can't go into the into the dock as such but certainly a five year old can potentially be a witness I think there's been cases of children as young as for giving evidence. It's not usually it's never these days done by putting the child in the witness box. It will be done by way of a first of all a pre recorded video interview with specially trained police officers. And it may then be necessary for the child to be cross examined at some later stage but we don't of course know what Henry is going to say it would be that he's able to say anything after such a traumatic incident. So in terms of gathering evidence and what is going to be seen as being admissible. You know when does some when is something evidence and when is it kind of tittle tattle so could David say. I had suspicions about robin culvert gate is that admissible could curse what what what evidence is a little more evidence isn't as miserable and that's that's really what's what viruses spend most of the training. Learning and even once we've learned it almost everything is is open to argument. Basically it is admissible for example if the defense is from hell is that she's terrified of a robin and it's all that she had to act in self defense. It probably would be admissible for her to say what happens in the past if that if that tended to support her. But equally evidence of motive motive that she might have for for deliberately stabbing rob that would probably be evidence for the prosecution but it's a very complicated subject it's always difficult to say in the abstract. Exactly what evidence is admissible and what isn't it depends what the issues turn out to be in the trial. But in terms of kind of character witnesses because on the face of it this looks pretty dark for Helen because she does have you know she had a public meltdown just a couple of weeks ago. Obviously Ursula is going to defend her son and let's say Susan Carter even said to PC Burns yesterday that Helen is notoriously highly strong and I think us as listeners will give that you know that view a certain amount of credence. And then Rob's character witnesses potentially are going to be much more of a mixed bag most people are going to think well he's a final upstanding citizen and he's been a devoted husband and father. So, how much is that going to play let's say on the CPS is mind as to whether there really is an archerable case that she was defending herself looking at just character witnesses. I think at this stage the evidence of character is a pretty minimal importance in the CPS is charging so they'll look at the evidence what actually happened and any forensic evidence things like that. It may well become character evidence particularly on Helen's behalf, could well become important standard missile during the trial, but it's a bit harder to put in bad character evidence against him I don't think they're going to be much of much of that because as far as I know she is not only criminal convictions she's never acted violently in the past. And just in general that sort of tittle title that she's a bit highly strong and used to have anorexia that wouldn't help prosecution anyway even it was a miserable which is it almost certainly wouldn't be. People who look at such as Sue or Ursula who may say truly or falsely but they may say that she's expressed a desire to kill Robin the past. That's not really character evidence that's evidence that she has a motive and is planning to kill him and that probably could be a miserable. Okay, and then lastly I have this flight of fancy that Rob is going to try and play the victim in all of this and he's the victim of a knife to the guts to be fair to the evil bastard. And he's going to try and one of the ways in which he will try and let's say win control of Helen again is by saying that he doesn't want this prosecution to go ahead. How realistic would that be in this scenario and if the person who's taken a knife to the guts if they said to the CPS no no no no no would they steal things still rumble on ahead. Well I think it would certainly rumble on it does it certainly makes the prosecution more difficult and without without Rob's evidence in some form it would be it would be pretty hard to see what it would be impossible I think really to pursue Okay so well that said murders are obviously prosecuted when there's no evidence from the deceased so it wouldn't be technically impossible to prosecute Helen without Rob's evidence. But yeah if he wanted not to cooperate with the investigation then I think that might well bring a halt to it but he'll come under a lot of pressure as he takes that line from the police and the CPS he's a compelable witness they can put him in the witness box and ensure he comes to court. So even you know more about Rob's character than I do but I think I'd be a bit surprised if he just refuses to give evidence at all. Well as I said it's probably a flight of fancy of mine. Mr Scott if somebody wants to read your musings on the legal state of Britain and how can they do that where can I find your blog. Well the website my blog is Bass to Blogger.com and you couldn't sometimes read my musings in the daily paragraph as well. Never heard of it is that one of these new startup websites. Yeah it's a fairly popular website that says getting more popular a lot of readers these days. Brilliant. Listen thank you for agreeing to do this interview and let's hope that Rob Tichner gets everything he deserves. Yes. OK thank you very much. Thanks pal. Bye bye. Thanks a lot, bye. With Rob Tichner lying in baucets in general things in the fictional and real world of the arches have sped up a pace this week. It's with issues of coercive control and domestic violence in mind that we catch up with friend of the show Paul Truman. Paul how are you? I'm very well thank you Roy Field how are you? I'm all right I'm all right. So the last time we spoke you would only raise the paltuary de Riserie about 50 grand. A piffling a piffling. So tell us kind of what's happened since you last came on the show and possibly how the events of the last week have kind of sped things up for you. Sure so I think after we spoke there were that was probably what would that have been with that probably a couple of maybe two weeks in I think and then and then you know the money kept coming in although it sort of it's slow. We got to 60 grand which I thought was amazing and then I put it up but then I think in my head I just kind of I thought that's probably it now isn't it I mean how many people can we really. Can we really reach without being sort of really trailed and all the rest of it on radio four or really much more kind of up to it I'm not sure how much more juice there is left and I put it up to 62 and a half and I got a friend of mine and old friend Matt from unico I never seen anymore but we have a kind of a relationship on Twitter and Facebook as is sometimes the way now and he tweeted me and said is it really bad of me to say that I I hoped you would just say after you hit 60 fuck it and put the and put the total up to 100. I kind of laughed and looked at his tweet and thought yeah I gone what's the worst that can happen you know what's that can happen is we don't make 100 grand but we still make 70 or 80 maybe even maybe even as much as 80. So I put that up and it was it was a bit scary because up to that point I'd always kind of slightly gamed it and you never went more than sort of you know I never really went more than a couple of grand more than we've got because I wanted to encourage people to donate. I went up from 60 to 100 days a hell of a leave and if I'm honest and I genuinely didn't know whether we'd get to 100 and if I thought if we do get to 100 it will take months but you know that's cool. Sure Paul you weren't in cahoots with the script writers you knew about the next three months of the scripts yeah exactly me and Kerry Davis we are like that. No I genuinely you know and I spoke to refuge and I went to so in the meantime I had an amazing day with the refuge team with Lisa and Sandra and the wonderful people in London at their their office there. And also the wonderful Helen warns you Johnson who came along as well and we spent a really amazing day just talking to people there and finding out more about what they do and how the money will be spent and it was it kind of really fired me up if I'm honest I kind of came away from that I put the total up already I think we were on about 65 66 at that point and I came away from that day thinking right you know however long it takes we are going to get to 100 grand this is this is going to happen. And it just kept money kept coming in money kept coming in and then I went on holiday last week the storyline you could feel the storyline couldn't you kind of get you know picking up and picking up. And I went on holiday and I think it was at about 76 77 grand so this would have been I went we went off to Switzerland took my kids on a on a cheap and cheerful will certainly cheerful anyway skiing holiday and we got to the mountains and I remember celebrating 80 grand somehow we got to 80 grand the money started really coming in. And I tell you I remember actually when it kicked off it kicked off with the Good Friday episode which I think resulted in her ringing a helpline which we kind of meant to assume is refuge although obviously never mentioned. And then it kicked off because they had the woman's hour interviews and as I knew as I've known all along and slightly had to kind of bite my fist you know with some from radio for the just kind of up to the call out the bottle and the money just started pouring in and we went from 77 grand I think we put on almost 10 grand while while I was away for a week and I got back just in time for the for the big you know the big Friday night and everything else since. And we just you know it just sawed I mean we did we did something like 20 grand I think in a week. So where are you at right now. We are at 107,000 pounds crumbs when you add in gift aid which I don't try to talk about because I'm trying to fool anybody it's it's all there on the website you can see to the penny how much money has been taken. But equally it's not what people donate people donate their cash and then we get the the largesse of kind of George Osborne kind of giving them money back. But with gift aid it is something astonishing like 130,000 pounds which is just saying out loud feels kind of mad. We're also I'm very excited to say I've got almost an exclusive you know I don't know what time I don't know when this is going to go out. This yeah okay this is going to go out. Maybe tomorrow. Okay well that's really interesting was tomorrow being Friday the night of a yes yes. So in the next 24 hours we are going to start selling. We are reviving the free the average one and we have some free the blossom hill one. That will be coming out now that that was the the instigation of a chat called Michael Moran on. You made it off Twitter yes the Michael Moran I know. Yeah so so he contacted me tweeted me during the last few days and said what about t-shirts would you be interested in t-shirts. And I just thought yeah why not I think it's great you know it's it's all obviously all proceeds will go to refuge. We're going to do tea towels as well which I'm quite excited about I do like a good tea towel. And and yeah it's going to be you know all the profits will go with we've teamed up with this fantastic little company who are going to produce the stuff for us. And yeah and all the money will go to refuge so that that is fantastic and that is literally that is I'm we are kind of on any moment now will be going live. So hopefully by the time people are listening to this hello everyone. It will be it will be live and people will be able to go and there'll be links all over the place to go buy this stuff and for anyone who wants to kind of commemorate the events of the last week. So your partner as you become a fundraising widow it sounds to me like you know with the exception of this little holiday you took your family on you've devoted mind, body and soul to this thing in the last couple of months. There was a wonderful moment when we were on holiday where I got tweeted by a lady from the press association a journal from the press association and she said, could you do an interview and I said well I'm on holiday but I can yeah I can do an interview that's no problem down the phone and I was at the bottom of a ski let a ski run with a with a van show talking to this journalist and I swear to God I felt like it's the closest I'll ever come to know what it must have been like to be Michael winner. Kind of ridiculously poncy kind of person being asked to pontificate on the news of the day while skiing it was I just wanted any the only way it could have been any better if Joan Collins had a being there with me and we could have pretended we were English start or something like that it was wonderful. And my wife is taking the piss out of me quite quite rightly to she's been brilliant she's called Emma she's fantastic and she's put up with me. Yeah I mean it's it's it's a fair amount of late night tweeting but to be honest you know it's not I am not putting this money in the bank it is the amazing generosity and kindness and good will of everyone else I'm just showing people the way it's the power of it's the power of an amazing storyline which is managed to touch educate inform and entertain which will come on to in a little bit so many people and then it's your bloody clever you know page so it's a confluence of all of it sir. Well thank you it's a yeah I mean definitely you know without obviously without the idea and the page there'd be no cash but you know equally as we said before I think the last time I was on it. You know without the show without the community without the goodwill there would be no money in the bank so it's this lovely virtuous circle you know everything has to work for it to work and I'm just like you know so happy that it's worked out how it is. So I've been on the on the Twitter's today in between doing a little bit of design work you know Twitter's been chuntering away and somebody started to beat me up and you decided to spectate and have popcorn and take taking the entertainment. Tell me how you think the story has played out vis-a-vis Helen stabbing Rob what's your take on it. So I listened to your listen to your episode the last one and when you and Lucy were discussing it and I heard yours just wonderful kind of five minutes of of inductive. Very you know very very well thought through and you said you were very you were very keen to kind of give all the credit so that the amazing and the amazing team that put together but you had a real issue to the end. You know I don't have 100% black or white answer to it I suppose I open it this way the first thing I would say is for me Rob touched across the line when he put that teddy bear in the bin. Now I know this is completely different because I'm a bloke right I'm thinking about it as a bloke and I'm six foot three I weigh quite a lot and for me that at that moment I would have torn that guy's arms out of his out of his sockets. You know if a man touched my kids teddy bear or mine that would be it I would end him so so for me he's already he's already dead to me right you know what everything else he's done that was the icing on the cake. But with that so with that in mind I I I okay so here is I bought what happened at a I thought it was an astonishing 13 or 14 minutes of radio. I mean I genuinely I've said this before I felt I could feel my my my heart in my throat while I sat there I felt sick and I just was like everyone else you know 20 minutes later I was still sat there kind of staring at my laptop that I listened to on kind of going oh my god and and reaching for a whiskey. So it's problematic in that for me you know statistically the vast majority of times that that that confrontation happens it is the man who will kill the woman. You know we all know that thankfully you know now we have to think people are generally more aware of terrifying stats like you know to to women killed every week by their partners in Britain. However I did buy it partly because and I understood what you said in your episode of the day where you said you know that they've they have a duty to kind of portray the way out. Now I would disagree I would say it's art and I don't think art has a duty to be 100% it's not a public service announcement it's it's got to do its own thing. Now I think they and I think they've done that in parts and I think at this point they've said we are going to this is going to take a route that we as writers and and actors are going to decide. I agree with you that this is art and there and it's there not necessarily is there primarily to entertain there's absolutely no two ways about it. It's just that when you look at the extremely sensitive portrayal and the detail portrayal and the fact that they said things very clearly in all of the press. We're trying to play this out in real time. Yes. So let's just forget the fact that Kenton basically had financial meltdown and depression alcoholism and that was dealt within like three months. Right we're going to play this out in real time to show that we can realistically portray this. Then if we're going to realistically portray this the woman tries to leave on several occasions or the statistics say it's up to seven times he tries to leave before before she leaves. And I would say that the public service remit of this whole storyline has been rich so large with the writers telling us ad nauseam and I don't mean that to sound in it's all negative that they've gone to refuge and like minded organizations and we're also told that a lot of the lines that Rob came out with a verbatim lines that women have actually used. So I would have thought that at the denouement apex, whatever the word is climax, there's the word I'm searching for, that we would have had a more representative portrayal of that moment. However, as you know as I very clearly said, it was an amazing 13 minutes of drama which needs to go down in the annals of not just the archers radio drama. Yeah, drama or whatever medium. So you see now for me the reason the reason it worked is because they maintained the truth of her character in that moment. So, Henry's a breaking point for you it's the deady bear. So what I loved about the way that it worked for me is that do you remember when when they had that amazing moment where she talked to Henry off camera off camera. You see I've done that thing that you mentioned in the other day about saying camera and seeing off of air and found out about the school and came in in a in a in a Shakespearean kind of rage. She went from 0 to 60 in seconds. Now, but still hasn't at that point taught acknowledged to anyone even really thirsty that she's married to a monster. I think she's buried all this. What I found really interesting was that they made I got the sense that they've made it clear with that Helen is buried this rage that surfaces occasionally, but she is still processing it out loud to people. She still hasn't really I can't miss anything. No, she's she's she's completely in. No, she's not completely in denial. She's in the most part still in denial. Yes, we've had that. I mean, why she said I'm going to give him dinner and explain things to him because she still wants him to be the kind of person that would say, yes, darling, that sounds like a perfectly, you know, if you need time and space, you should have time and space. Whereas Kirsty saying get the hell away from him, but because of this denial, but buried underneath all that denial, she knows. She knows, you know, she has known since she had that amazing episode where which was the day I came up with the idea for it because it was such an astonishing bit of radio then that that weird episode where she took him out of school without saying to anyone why yes, it was such a cry from her subconscious and I always think she's been this amazing mix ever since of boiling rage at what's happened that her subconscious knows exactly what's happened. And her conscious, which is still, he's a wonderful man. You don't understand him. I need looking after. And that's why I think in the moment I totally bought that her subconscious took over and she thought, I've got to end this and I've got to end him. Not the only way it's going to work. You know, one of the things I said very clearly last week is that they picked the perfect character for this storyline, because, you know, you couldn't have believed if it was literally any other woman in in ambridge, you literally would not have believed it. They would have to have been another element to let's say to have a Jolene worn down to the point where she accepted some, you know, her partner to, you know, to not only emotionally controller but then to rape her. So, so yeah, we're very close in this. It's a case of I just, I just believe that considering coercive control is still the term and actually what it is is still so new to people with always known bullies in relationships. But now we realize how insidious it can actually be, how 100 years ago, it was totally acceptable for a man to hit his wife, except a lot more recently. Well, yeah. But, and let's say that by the, by let's say 50 years ago, and the police would still turn up to domestic to a domestic. And there you go. It wasn't seen as being violence. It was a domestic. And you would just, you know, maybe have a little bit of word with the husband and then you'd walk away. So, in terms of physical violence, of which for the most part men are the perpetrators not wholly but for the most part attitudes have changed in what let's say a generation and a half. I think that's fairly safe to say with coercive control. This is something which we are, for the most part, a lot of people kind of really learning about now that it, you know, it can be as bad and is as terrible as physical violence. But of course, Rob's even crossed the line there. Just so before people say, "Oh, no, no, no, he has, you know, he has struck her at least twice now and raped her twice." Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely. And actually, just before I completely forget, I slightly disagree with you about the point where Helen really understood the monster that Rob was. For me, it was the evening after he collided with drink after the cambered from the honeymoon. She's never been the same since. That week, when she came back from the Isle of Wight, she was telling everybody what a stallion in bed he was, et cetera, and what an amazing man he was. That was when she first absolutely realised, but she's buried it away, even though she'd had nagging doubts before. So the whole thing about the fatherhood of Ethan, she did question that. She absolutely did, but she went, "Okay, I'll give you the benefit of that." And of course, honey, I believe you, et cetera, but she wasn't quite sure. And when that paternity test came, she went, "Okay, the little nagging doubts I have about this man, they're not valid." And that's partly the reason why then she went through with, you know, kind of getting married and having this, you know, an open, et cetera. But, you know what, you're doing Lucy's job. And you know what? No one could do Lucy's job. You know what, Paul, I love you dearly, but you're not as good looking as my Lucy. So we need to wrap this up. We need to wrap this up by you telling people how they can get on to your Just Giving page. Where is it at and anything else you want to tell us before we go? Thanks, Roy Field. And thanks, everyone, who has donated, and thanks, everyone who's told their friends, who shared it on Facebook, who's tweeted it, who's Instagrammed it, whatever it is you've done with it. If you've passed it on, you've podcasted it. If you've podcasted it, thank you very much. And if you haven't heard of it, or you haven't been there, what the hell have you been, didn't know? If you haven't been there, it's justgiving.com/hellintitchener. I've said it before, I say it again, I wish I could go back two months and change it to Helen Archer, but I made it Helen Titchener, and I did not know this was going to become a national thing. So it's justgiving.com/hellintitchener, and please, you know, if it's too quid, if it's 200 quid, which... So last night, I came on this morning on the page, had a look, and someone has written this very sweetly. We were all out for dinner last night, and we decided we'd have a whip round, because as sure as eggs as eggs, they wrote, Helen's going to need some money, and they donated 130 quid. So I can only assume a bunch of people are out of dinner. A, talking about this, which I love. B, talking about the thing, and then C, actually doing it, and giving me the money. It's amazing. So go and have a look. I mean, if you've donated, please go, thank you so much. If you go and have a look at the comments, they are amazing. I mean, every day, someone posts, writes something incredible on that page. We've got to do something with those comments at some point, and thank you very much to everyone for putting up with me at the last two months, cocking on about this all the time. And thanks to you all, you feel that Lucy, for having me on the show. You know, considering this is only supposed to be a little five-minute addendum, you managed to string that out for a good 20-plus. Mid-afternoon coffee always helps. Hey baby, I hear the blues are calling to salads and scrambled eggs. Massive. So the events at Blossamill Cottage have not only now scarred, robbed physically, Helen emotionally, but also little Henry. So with that in mind, I thought it'd be quite a wise thing to speak to friend of the show with a spoon as to how each of those three characters might be feeling. So Lonnie, hello. Hey, how are you? Not too bad, not too bad. Now quickly, first off, Helen has been arrested. She has stabbed her husband. From listening to the show this week, could you give us some idea as to her mental state? Well, right now I think she's in a state of emotional shock where there's a great deal of denial, lack of connection to her feelings, which is probably a good thing for her right now. So as you're seeing, there's a sense of flatness about her and even a lack of recall about her emotional state and that's probably the best way to protect herself. Otherwise, I think she would curl into a ball in a state of profound depression. So an interesting yesterday, PC Burns was trying to gather evidence and he spoke to village Tittle Tattle Susan Carter. And Susan said, "Oh, what, she's always been highly strong, et cetera." And she had anorexia. Now, I know next to nothing about these things, but it seems to me that Helen has always been somewhat emotionally fragile. Would that be a fair assessment to make? Well, I think she has had her share of emotional problems. I don't know if fragile is the right word to describe her. It's a bit condescending. I think anyone who would have undergone the chronic nature of emotional and somewhat physical trauma that she's been through over the last two years will be in a compromised emotional state. And I don't think it has. So even though she's had anorexia and other emotional problems in the past, putting that aside, she'd be in a very bad off state because of all the trauma she's had. So even a very healthy person who's been in a long term abusive situation would have broken down. Just so we clear, I was really referring to her pre-Rob. So don't get me wrong, the what she's been through in the last couple of years. And her response, whether I think it's served the drama well at all, was actually understandable. Her response when her son is actually been physically threatened, or at least that's what she felt at that point that Henry was in mortal danger. So really it was the Helen beforehand. It was the Helen with Greg. It was the Helen who actually, and this is something which Andrew Horn pointed out, has always been wrapped up in a certain amount of cotton wool by her parents because of her traumatic birth. So obviously there are another two characters who were witness, shall we say, to the events on Sunday. Little Henry, I kind of semi speculated in my five minute rant along on Monday show that we've now set Henry up to be this deeply scarred wounded, potentially kind of psychopath for the next 50 years. I think that's a little unfair. Good, because I don't want him to be, but we are dealing ultimately with a drama and things always happen, but you know, characters are always the way they are for a reason, for a discernible reason. So I'm wondering, you know, this child is going to grow up and we don't know if he absolutely witnessed his father being stabbed, but at least he's seen him on the floor in a pool of blood, that we do know. Could a child say young or how would a child say young be coping with what he's seen at the moment? Well, actually, I'm more concerned about her separation from Helen, whether it be her mother, his mother, whether it be just for the short term, or God forbid, for a long period of time, that's going to be much more traumatic for him. And what he may have witnessed in the blink of an eye for him, kids have different defense mechanisms for something that may occur in a very short period of time. He could have quickly formed a different impression, a different fantasy about it. As he said, he thought his father was asleep, and that fantasy may very well be one that he keeps. But eventually, he will need to be told the truth and some fashion. So that's when the certain amount of trauma will occur. And again, if Helen goes to prison for a number of years, you know, this separation will be a much more traumatizing episode for him than what he may or may not have witnessed. OK, and we don't want to have too much sympathy for Mr Tichner, but he has, if not nearly lost his life, he's temporarily lost the use of his bowels anyway, he's had some kind of colostomy bag. So, let's say that that's an appropriate punishment. It does feel somewhat somewhat apt. Let's say that he's going to make somewhat of a recovery. Knowing the character of Rob, how do you think he's going to react to what's happened? I think he will react in a rob-like fashion. He is a narcissist. I think he will completely deny any complicity in this. He will not accept any responsibility for his abuse. He will put the blame squarely on Helen and portray himself to be the victim. And at the same time, he'll spin it in some heroic fashion that in fact he was bathing Henry's life. I wouldn't be shocked at all if he actually threw that one up. I think you're right. And I've said this on the Twitter's. I think he's going to use this as a way of further portraying Helen to be a crazy woman, but him to be the concerned husband and doting father to Henry and also to the unborn son and actually to try and have these charges dropped. But that's as wild speculation from me. Mr. Witherspoon. What's weather like in New York today? It is quite miserable. It is, as my Scottish husband says, it is quite the week. It is chilly and rainy and gloomy. Perfect for Scotland. Sounds like a typical London day as well. However, that would not be correct today because it's actually quite lovely today. But Mr. Witherspoon, thank you for your time and thank you for giving us a little bit of an insight into the emotional welfare and state, shall we say, of the three inhabitants of Blossom Hill Cottage. Thank you, sir. You are very welcome. Take care. We'll speak again soon. I look forward to it. Hey, baby, I hear the blues are calling to salads and scrambled eggs. Merci. Hello, ambridge 3962. Hi, it's Miss Mids City. Thinking about it as someone who's been an arches fan for ages more than 30 years now, is somebody who is by professional training a lawyer and even though I don't do criminal law anymore. I'm just thinking about my knowledge of criminal law and how all this stuff's going to pan out and my knowledge of family law. I'm thinking that this is going to divide the village. And by the time this case gets to trial, I assume it's not dealt with before, whether Helen, Helen's going to harm herself and do away with herself, and I don't think the police are going to drop the charges. I think the people of ambridge are going to choose sides, and it's going to be like the OJ trial in ambridge. So prepare for writing. If the verdict goes the wrong way. Thinking in terms of who I'd want as my prosecution witnesses, definitely Ursula after Wednesday night incident, I'd have called her anyway, but definitely Ursula and P.C. Burns, they would be my prosecution witnesses straight off. And then who for the defense if I was defending Helen, obviously Kirsty and possibly Jess. And then if it came to character witnesses for Helen, then I'd be a bit stuck. Pretty much everyone has positive things to say about Rob, but you don't need that as evidence. What you want is to build your case for Helen and defend her. And you're not going to be able to do that where people are describing her as neurotic and highly strung and troubled and telling you that she's been through a lot. Where are you going to find her supporters, even in her own family. I'm really dubious about Pat. And I wonder if there is a possibility that Pat could be called as a witness for the prosecution, because she heard this conversation, this outburst of Helen's in which she said she would kill Rob. Now I know what prosecution lawyers are going to do with that. I'm laughing for it's not funny, but I know how these people work. I know what we're going to do with that. And Pat was present and they're going to use Pat to put their case over. So I wouldn't be surprised if Pat ends up having to give evidence against her daughter, because Pat didn't know there were any problems. Nobody apparently knew there were any problems in that relationship. Everybody has thought that Rob is a nice guy. So who I don't know if it's impossible to try and get all the people who have the negative thing to say about Rob. Would they? Let's talk about something that's not always top of mind, but still really important. Life insurance. Why? Because it offers financial protection for your loved ones and can help them pay for things like a mortgage, credit card debt. It can even help fund an education. And guess what? Life insurance is probably a lot more affordable than you think. In fact, most people think life insurance is three times more expensive than it is. So with state farm life insurance, you can protect your loved ones without breaking the bank. Not sure where to start? State Farm has over 19,000 local agents that can help you choose an option to fit your needs and budget. Get started today and contact a state farm agent or go to statefarm.com. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. 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Have anything useful to contribute to a trial? I don't know. Shuler and the incident with a hunt saboteur? No, because when it comes down to it, didn't she lie to cover up for him? So she undermines herself. Charlie, easy to undermine him too, because of what happened with Adam and the circumstances in which he lost his job. Jenny and David with their suspicions about Stefan and COVID-gate. There's nothing concrete there. So I don't know where Helen's going to find any comfort or solace in all of this. And in terms of the village, there are obviously going to be people who just don't accept what they hear. And as the truth gradually comes out and Helen's story is told, if she's put on trial and by the time you put on trial and the details of abuse starts coming up because it's going to be a matter of public record by that. And the details of the abuse and the rape and the assault start to surface and the controlling behaviour. 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