The Jordan Syatt Podcast

How to Lose the Last 10 Pounds, Tummy Tucks, Building Muscle in Maintenance, Israel, and More...

In this episode of The Jordan Syatt Mini Podcast, I speak with Inner Circle Member, Rachel, about: - How to lose the last 10 pounds - Tummy tucks - Building muscle in maintenance - Israel - And more.. I hope you enjoy the episode. And if you do, please leave a review on iTunes (they really do help a lot). Finally, if you've been thinking about joining The Inner Circle but haven't yet...we have hundreds of home and bodyweight workouts for you and you can get them all here: www.sfinnercircle.com.

Duration:: 1h 0m
Broadcast on:: 28 Jul 2024
Audio Format:: aac

- What's going on? - What's cooking? - How are you doing? - Good, this is so fun. - I'm very excited. I'm very, very excited. How are you? - I'm good, I'm good. - So, just so you know, we are recording. Just so you're aware, we're recording it right off the bat 'cause all like the best stuff happens right at the beginning. I'm very excited to speak with you. So I've read the whole email. But I wanna hear everything from you regardless. I just wanna hear you break everything down. But before we even get into your fitness questions, like I just wanna get to know you better. So tell me about you, Rachel, who are you? Who is Rachel? - Well, hmm, I don't know if that would be appropriate for a podcast, but I'll give you some snippets of who is Rachel. So this is actually very out of my comfort zone. - Okay. - Because I grew up Orthodox Jewish. - Okay. - In a town that's very private and we don't typically do public things like this. So it's a little weird for me and I'm sort of hoping that nobody will ever come across it. I'm doing this very selfishly because I wanna hear your opinions. I want your advice. So I'm like, fuck, this is what I'm doing. - And you need to be selfless so that you can be selfless. Like if you would have to be able to fill your own cup before you can fill other people's cups. So it makes sense, where did you grow up? Was it in New York? - I grew up in Jersey. - Jersey, got it. Okay, you've got that accent, I get that. I wanna have coffee with you. (laughing) - Are you still in that area? - Yeah, yeah, I live nearby. - Okay. - At the town that I grew up in, but I live nearby. But I'll just leave the name out for now. So I grew up Orthodox Jewish. We didn't really do like a lot of organized sports and school or things like that. So movement was not necessarily a thing that was so focused on. Like my dad always worked out. Like since I'm a little kid, I remember him running, biking, we had a gym in the basement, but he didn't really talk about it much. Like it was just something that he did. And then as I got older, I think it was probably maybe around ninth grade, something like that. Like 13, 14, I decided to go on the treadmill a lot. So I would treadmill a lot. I would bike, I would do things like that, but didn't know anything about weights. Didn't know anything at all. And then I wanna say, after I had one of my kids, I think it was, I think after my first, I started doing a lot of yoga. That was really fun. It was also like the first time I had really gone to like a mixed gym. And it was just a nice experience. There were really nice people there. And I really, really enjoyed it. And then after my second, I joined, I hired a trainer and she herself was doing CrossFit. So she would train me and then, she turned me on to CrossFit. And then I joined CrossFit, I wanna say like, there are seven or eight years ago. - Okay, nice. - Yeah, and I, I mean, I love it. I love it. It's so much, I'm also an occupational therapist, which is one of those boring jobs on the planet. For me, people love it. I did it for like 14 years. Oh God, I hated the actual work, but I loved the patience and the people that I worked with. So that was amazing. And then a couple years back, I, I got certified as a personal trainer, but I more focus on, you know, pelvic floor type of exercises and, you know, more with people from my community who are being introduced to getting used to exercise. So it's nothing really, you know, hard for, but I like mixing the occupational therapy and the personal training bit. I also have three monstrous children. My oldest is 13. We just made a bar mitzvah last week. - Oh, a nozzle tub, that's amazing. - Thank you. - That must be crazy stressful. - It was ridiculously stressful. I think actually the original time for the podcast was going to be around then. And I emailed Kat and I'm like, "Hell no." (laughing) Like, I can't please give me another time. Please, we got to get this kid to be a man. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was his portion? Do you even know what his portion was? - Dude, he didn't even read it. - What? - Nah. - Nah, he didn't even want to read it. We just did like a night event. Look at your face. - It's so funny coming from the Orthodox to then be like, yay, he didn't even read his tour portion. - Yeah, you know, it's weird because in the Orthodox community, it's actually less of a focus than in like the modern Orthodox or conservative. - Really? - Yeah, it's important, but it's changed a lot over the years. - Yeah, I didn't know that. - Yeah, again, it depends who. Some people, it's a die art, and don't you fuck with that. But it's definitely gotten better. So he wasn't up to it. He can read from it. I mean, the kid is adorable, but-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he had fun. It was a great experience. - Dude, he had a blast. He had a blast, so yeah, so he's 13. My other son is turning nine. They kill each other all day, it's beautiful. And then my daughter's three and a half. - That's amazing, what a blessing. I love that, that's incredible. - It really, it's a huge blessing. It really is great. - And you want more or are you done? - You know what, I don't know. I'm so undecided, like if I could press the button on the soda machine and get another girl, I feel like I'd be so excited, but kids are, I mean, they're amazing, but they're a crap ton of work as you well know. (laughing) - And I only have one so far, so yeah. - Well, you have one that's half baked already, so you're-- - Yes, yeah, easy. (laughing) - Yeah, it's a lot, man, it's a lot. - Yeah, so you have three kids. - Yeah. - And that's where the story is currently, right now. - Yeah, yeah. - Okay, awesome. So the story is currently. - And so now it talked to me about what I can help you with. You wrote an email and you explained some of the questions that you were having. Let's dive into that, and if you end up having other questions, we can dive into those as well, but let's just start off with that. - Sure, okay, I'm gonna pull up the email because I already ended in my head like 40 times. - Honestly, whatever questions you have, it doesn't even have to be from the email. I was just like, I reviewed that before the call, but any questions you have, anything you want to discuss, it doesn't have to be from the email, anything you want to talk about. - Okay, perfect. So I think at this point in my life, so I'm 34, I'm turning 35 soon, and I love movement. I mean, some people say, you know, movements, way of escaping this, I don't give a damn. Movement is the best thing on the planet. I love it, it's great. That being said, I've definitely slowed down a bit over the years because I probably took it too far at certain points, and I didn't really know what my body needed, what my body didn't need. But I'm at the point now that I enjoy CrossFit, I really do. Aesthetically, it never really gave me what I wanted. It was a blast, it was fun, it got me into fitness. I mean, you sort of have like a dysfunctional family, what could be better. So, I mean, it gives you a lot of that. That being said, aesthetic suffers. I was tired a lot. I would push really hard on them, and then I'd be very drained. And because it's so random, now again, every gym is different, and I love my gym, they did a great job, my box. But it's just such randomized programming, and that part's difficult. I also recently started with a push-pull leg split around seven months ago. That was before I joined the Inner Circle, so now I sort of mix and match. 'Cause I have to keep things exciting. So I've been doing CrossFit three days a week, and then a push-pull leg, let's say Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, and then after I finished that, I would go and do zone two cardio with quotes because I think I'm doing it, but can't really talk so well when I do it, but I'm from Jersey so we can always talk well. So I do about like 40 minutes of that, like a 3.2 to 3.5, and then the incline's like a 13 1/2, 14. So I think it's pretty much there. - Yeah. - And I walk a cramp ton. I mean, there are days that I'll walk like six miles, there are days that I walk three miles, like I don't even go by my phone step counter just because I don't wear a watch. So it's only counting when I'm on my phone. So that's that. When it comes to food, I didn't do an official cut. Like I've done official cuts with macro coaches, blah, blah, blah. I sort of just did whatever the fuck I wanted, but within a certain calorie amount. - Yeah. - And I lost a lot of weight. I really did. Now I'm in that weird spot where you have, you know, podcast and things where you're like, should I lose the last 10 pounds? What am I gonna give up? What am I not in? - Yes, yes. - You know that whole spiel. Okay. - Yeah, so I know the spiel, but I hadn't experienced being at the only 10 pounds to go. - Yep. - And I was like, I went down to like 115 and like, I was like two, yeah, but I'm like two. So I was small. It's certain areas, my muscle definition was fantastic and other areas. It really wasn't. Grand did I have three kids. So one day, tiny tuck. (laughing) And I know that that's real. I'll give you a minute there. (laughing) - I miss the East Coast. It's just so, it's just so fun. I love it. - We're such assholes. (laughing) Cause you know what? We don't bullshit. - Correct. - Just bless your heart, honey. It's like I'll fuck you and get out of my way. (laughing) - It's true. It's very true. - So yeah, like when I hit 115 and I would bend over and I had to like pick up my belly and tuck it back in. It's like, dude, that's surgery. Like it was a reality check and also very validating because I realized like there ain't nothing I can do for that. - Correct, correct. - And I'm working on building up my core and blah, blah, blah. But I would love to be at a place where I can figure something out with food without feeling like I'm gonna die and get movement in but sort of know what I need to do. Like I would love to know, listen, three days a week rage. This is what you're doing. Anything more is great, anything less, fuck you. You know, it would be nice to have that balance but it's almost like I've done macros. I've counted, I've done calorie counting. Thank God I've never done keto or any of that shit. - Yeah. - I've done like the 17-day diet and only eat hot dogs and then have ice cream after a few days. You're like, I did a lot of that in my 20s. I'm over that. But I really would like the knowledge. I don't want to sit with calorie counters anymore and weighing things but I also want someone to be honest with me and I think that's what I want to talk to you. Like if you tell me rage, if you want to look a certain way, that's what you have to do. Then I'll make a decision. I'll say either yes or I'll say no but I'll have the knowledge. I feel like I've read so many books, spoken to so many people and I just get more confused. - Mm-hmm, yeah, it makes total sense. So to break it down to its most concise form, tell me if I'm right or wrong, how much do you weigh right now at five to? - I would say around 124 but I've been fluctuating between 124 and like 129 depends. - Okay, so 125 to 130 pounds, perfect. So you're already a very lean, very petite individual. You just are, period. Like that's like a very lean, especially like in this day and age but in general 125 to 135 to. So we're talking about in your very active, I would imagine like after this many years of crossfit and doing push, pull legs, like you're strong, you're athletic, like you're not a beginner by any means, you're at the higher end of an intermediate closing in on advanced, if that makes sense. The thing that's, the way that I differentiate intermediate to advanced here is if you had a background of competing potentially or like where fitness was your main focus and that was like, 'cause you got three kids, you're an occupational therapist, like that's where I'm thinking it would be very difficult with that to also achieve an advanced advanced level but you're on that teetering between intermediate to advanced, you're very, very close and it might actually be advanced but I'm obviously, I haven't seen you train yet. Either way, your high level is what I'm getting at, your very high level and the higher level you get, the harder it's going to get to achieve an even better physique or better performance or whatever it is you're looking for. So correct me if I'm wrong, it is the main goal right now, aesthetics, it's how you look, okay, cool. - Hell yeah, I mean, I'm gonna be bored, I don't wanna eat grass all day and feel like duty but I feel like to feel good. - Cool, and I would imagine it's a combination of fat loss and more muscle definition, is that right? - Yeah, 'cause I mean, there are some areas that it's like, there's some back fat and no matter how, yeah, like it's just chilling there and I'm like, maybe I can fill that up with some muscle, I do struggle with building in certain areas. My shoulders jack up so fast and then my back or other areas really struggle. - Yeah, yep, all of this makes total sense. And again, you're at a very high level and even how you are right now, it's important to say the vast majority of women would look at you and be like, I would kill to look like her. Just, I think it's important to say and it doesn't take away from your goals, it's important from the perspective of what my next recommendations are. If you want to achieve this high level of an aesthetic, which is what you're going for, you're gonna need to be strict, you just are. There are some people who just, like naturally, they've just got it, they don't even think about it too much, which is actually funny. I've found the more someone educates themselves on this, the less likely they are to be able to do this. It almost is that ignorance is bliss, mindset where they don't even fucking think about food. It's not even something that is a conversation in their head. They're just like, yeah, I just eat whatever I want. But if you followed them around and tracked their calories, you'd be like, you're actually in like a mild deficit to maintenance level, you're not eating that much, you're probably walking a lot, they do strength train, but it's just, they're genetically, psychologically, it's very much just like, it's easy for them. And they're a very small percentage of the population. So there's that aspect to it. The other aspect, and this is, I think, probably the other, this is probably the biggest thing right now, especially with everyone on social media, looking at other people, oh my God, how do they look so good? They've got no back fat, they've got this, they've got that. This is really, really important to understand. First, the number one thing is, aside from marijuana, anabolic steroids are the most commonly used drug in the United States. And when people hear anabolic steroids, they think, get jacked, but there are many different types of steroids, and they're not all about getting huge. They have steroids that help you lose body fat, they have steroids that help you literally dry you out so your muscles look more defined. They have steroids that do anything you could imagine, they allow you to eat more and still lose fat, but like steroids, anything you could imagine. So it's very important if fitness influencers are among the worst people, partly because it's like their job sort of, in quotes, depends on it, but it only depends on if they bite, but fitness influencers do this all the time, 'cause it's like, well, if I look better, then I'll get more clients, so I'll make more money. It's a terrible, terrible cycle. So people are then made to believe that anyone can look like that if they just work out like that person or eat like that person. So long story short, if you're going to want to achieve a lower body fat and more muscle definition, you're gonna have to be more strict. And we can talk about specifics of what that might look like, but just the no bullshit answer is to lose those last 10 pounds and get more defined. It's not gonna require more time in the gym. In fact, I would say it would probably require less time in the gym from you. It will require more time with nutrition tracking, and it will require less crossfit, that is for sure, and more dedicated heavy strength training. So like, this is actually really important because you were saying how, you know, you work so hard with crossfit, you get drained. I remember, I used to be able to do those style workouts in my early 20s, no problem, the rest of the day wasn't an issue. But now, wife, daughter, puppy, next kid on the way, running a business. It's like, I have to be very careful with how hard I go in my workouts or else, I'm sort of fucked for the rest of the day. And so, crossfit, depending on you get, there are many smart ways to do it. But if your goal, I would say if your goal was to be good at crossfit, then do more crossfit. But if your goal is aesthetics, either mix it or limit it, and do just focus on going heavy with the strength training, 'cause that's where you're gonna build the muscle. That's where you're gonna like get the most muscle definition. And then lock in your nutrition, dialed nutrition. And that's where you're really gonna see it. And then the only person who can say whether or not it's worth it is you, you have to ask yourself, is it worth it for me to really lock this in? Shabbat dinner is probably aren't gonna be as fun. Definitely not as much hala, right? Like that's for me to be, that's my number one thing right now. Like hala, like on Shabbat and then all Saturday, it's like, no, I'm not reducing that yet. One, eventually I'll go into another mini-cut, whatever it is. And now I'm eating the whole hala, that is what it is. (laughs) So it's, you're the only one who can answer that, but just to be blunt and honest, you're gonna have to lock it in, if you really wanna get there. - I actually love that you said that. Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate that so much. It's like, I've asked so many people, it's like, oh, maybe do this, maybe do that, I don't know, not just tell me. (laughs) And then I always thought. - Just the truth, just as long as you have the truth, then you can make that decision. And yeah, I think, sometimes it's worth trying it, just so you can, number one, see how you feel. I was talking with a buddy today, I think fitness and money, fitness and finances have so much in common in terms of how you achieve a certain physique or performance, versus how you achieve a certain level of wealth, like very much, very similar, and a lot of analogies go hand in hand, but him and I were talking about money and how so many people think that having more money is gonna make them more happy. And there was a guy who was on a podcast recently, very famous, very wealthy, very well known guy, I'm not gonna say his name, I don't wanna call him out, but he was on a podcast just talking about how sad he is and how like, how just things aren't good. And he's not, and this is like one of the most famous guys in the world right now, very wealthy. And from outside looking in, you'd think he's got everything. And never mind this, if you look in the research, it's very clear that adding more money doesn't necessarily make you happier at all, especially after a certain point. But going back to why it might be important for you just to try it is because you might get to, who knows, we'll call it, 112 to 115, and you might have the most killer fucking physique. And then objectively, you look at, you're not eating as much kala if any at all on Shabbat, you're being way more meticulous than you wanna be, and you could be like, you know what, fuck it. I would rather have a little bit more body fat, and for whatever it's worth, that's where I am in my life right now. It's just like, I don't give a shit about being super lean because I've been there, done that. I know how I felt, I know what my life would look like, not worth it. So for you, it might actually be worth it just to be like, you know what, fuck it, I'm gonna try it, see how it goes for three, six, 12 months. And then you can decide, decide you know what, I love how I look, and I can do this sustainably for me. So I'll stick with it, or I won't, and I'll just say, fuck it and leave, right? - Yeah. - That's literally it. - Those are awesome options. I love that, that's so great. - And that makes sense, do you have any questions about that? - Yeah, I mean, it makes sense, and I think I've shared, you know, I've been to several macro coaches, I've tried different things. I think the hardest part of it all, I mean, there's two pieces. One of the hard parts is the tracking and what it does to my brain. I do have a history of disordered eating from when I was younger, so I'm always, like, is this a normal one able to eat? What do normal people do? Like, I always have a story in my head sort of happening, and I mean, I've been in recovery a long time, but it's real, like, you know, the body dysmorphia is real, obsession with food is real. There were points that I tracked and I was totally fine. There were points that it was really, really rough. And I think the hardest part for me about different coaches also, and I'm not blaming any coaches, it's just, I feel like I didn't get the knowledge. Like, anybody can go and start counting up protein fats and carbs, but there were times that I'm like, just tell me, try this yogurt, this amount, this breakfast, this dinner. But then again, I also don't want to be told, like, you've got only these things, so it's such a hard balance with that sense of tracking, you know? - It's very difficult. - Yeah, that can be a little crazy making. - It's a fine line, it's very difficult. I know some coaches who are like, I remember the first coach I ever hired for nutrition, I was 18. He made it very clear, he was like, don't ask me for recipes, don't ask me for food suggestions. Like, I don't do that shit, I'm just gonna eat macros. And like, I get it, but also I was like, I would like something, but then I know other coaches who do the exact opposite, where it's like, you have to eat this food, this has to be, and it's like, where is the fucking middle ground here? And so I think a little bit is helpful. What I will say, and the history of disorder eating is important information. Now what you really have to ask yourself is, 'cause now it's not just about you, it's also about your children. And people often leave boys out of the conversation, but disordered eating is actually about equally as common among boys as it is girls. I just think the causes are different. I think young girls are more likely to be impacted by their mother's eating than young boys are, whereas young boys' disorder eating will often come from a different stimulus. So specific to your daughter, she's, you know, your kids are watching everything you do, especially your little girl. And then you have to say, okay, I have a history of disorder eating, is it worth the risk? And again, you're the only one who can answer that. Is it worth, 'cause you know, your daughter's gonna love you regardless of whether you're 130 or 115. She doesn't give a shit. Is it worth the risk of potentially reigniting disordered eating behaviors, thoughts, any of that, not only in yourself, but also in her in terms of what she considers normal. Any long time list for my podcast, well, no, I've spoken to many women who've had disordered eating, and a lot of them will say it stems from their mother. It happens all the time. Happens all the time. My mom was always obsessed with this. My mom was always obsessed with losing weight. My mom was always obsessed with calories like all the time. And so there is a balance to be struck there. And again, the only person who can decide whether or not it's worthwhile is you. Maybe you do it and you decide to, you decide to, you know, maybe you're not going to weigh and measure foods around her, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but like if it's something that we're like, there's a lot of discussion we had around it. But again, the only person who can decide is you. I think that's just an important consideration to take in mind. Like, is it worth the risk? - Yeah, and you know, it's interesting in recovery. So when I first entered recovery, my 13 year old was probably two. So it was about 11 years ago. And I had to force myself to eat ice cream with him, keep popcorn with him to do all these things because he'd be like, oh, why are you two eating that? And I'm like, I'm going to eat it now because I'm not going to fuck this kid over with the stupid B&I member as a kid, wanting my mom to eat with us and wanting her to relax with us. And she, and I don't know, you know, where her part was and all that, I think that type of stuff is complicated and it was a very small piece of it. But she, and now is a mom. I understand why she didn't want to eat ice cream with us 'cause she was eating in her room later on. (laughing) But that was part of it too. But I remember it being something that I noticed. So I agree with you that with these type of things, I really, it's something to consider and also I'm not a foodie. Like I don't, I'm just not. But when I started tracking and when I started weighing, it definitely made me enjoy food less. But then again, there are times now that I'm like, I just wish I knew what to eat because I have more frustration with trying to figure it out. So there's two sides to the coin here. - Makes a little sense. Is there anything that, do you have questions around? I mean, you've worked with macro coaches. I'm assuming you generally know where your calories should be and all that. Do you have any questions around specific foods or anything like that that might be helpful? - So at this point, I don't even know where my numbers would be. Like I've used your calculator and things like that, but I haven't been this way in a long time. So I'm not so sure like how much protein, how much carbs, how much fat, or do I just do protein and then let the other numbers go where they may. And even like we're in the day to space them 'cause I'm a bit, like I love lunch. - Yup. - Like I'll eat a really, I'm Israeli in that way. Like I love a good lunch or a good breakfast. Well, not good breakfast anymore, no. But I love a good like meat or chicken type of lunch and then a smaller dinner and a smaller breakfast. - Okay, okay. - So sometimes, do you know, did you put your info into the new app and did the app give you the calculations for your calories, protein fiber? - I think it did. And then I just didn't walk after. - Got it, okay. Well, we can just do it right now. - Okay, yeah, I'm looking at it. - Oh, 1380, fuck you, app. Now. (laughing) - What did you say your goal weight was? 'Cause that's what it was based off of. - I'm not sure, let's go in there. Oh, 115. - Okay, so 115. - Yeah. - Jesus. Bless. - Yup, that's it. 'Cause at 115 by 12 is 1380. So what we are gonna do is we are implementing in the new update range. So it would probably stay closer to like 1350 to 1400 or, I don't know, 1450 or so. But either way, when you wanna get lean, this is the hardest. This is the hardest population. - Oh, depressing. - Small, petite women, the hardest population. It's the hardest. Like getting to 115, like, it's not a lot of weight. So you don't need as much energy in order to fuel your body. That's literally what it boils down to. And so that's where you gotta be like, is this fucking worth it to me? - Now, the other component here is you can increase your activity. The issue with that is you're already doing a fuck ton. And you're, I would imagine you're busy with three kids and just like everything you're doing. Like the cool part about increasing activity, this is, I often call this like the college girl effect where it's like often when we'll say, oh, when I was in college, I could eat whatever I wanted. And they would like, I'd work out and do that. And like oftentimes, you see like young college girls on campus, they're eating Skittles and like, there's whatever, but like, they'll go to the gym for like two hours, they'll be in the elliptical for two hours, then they're walking all over campus for hours all day. They get like 30 to 40,000 steps in a day. Nevermind, then when they're out drinking and partying, they're bar hopping, they're going bar to bar, going to people's apartment. Like they easily get 30 to 40,000 steps out of the day. Of course, you could eat whatever you wanted. And you also had a ton of time throughout the day to just walk and move and exercise when you are a regular person outside of college and you have real responsibilities, that time goes away. So the other option here would be increase your activity, but that takes time. - Well, that's the thing though. I have the time and I do it. So I mean, again, I don't wear a watch. So my steps are not accurate, like I do a lot more than it says, but like yesterday I had 26,000 steps. - Shut the fuck up. - Yeah, and that was without wearing a watch. That's not every day, but there are days that, I mean, I walk a lot. I talk on the phone when I walk. - Yeah, so you walk a lot and where do you think your calories are right now? - If I had to guess, I would say anywhere between 1800s to 2200 depending on the day, 'cause there are some days that I have 1,500 and there are some days that I'll have more. It really just depends. - So what I would say is this, if you're consistently getting an insane amount of steps which is with everything you do, your deficit, I would try bringing you down to like 15 to 1600 consistently. Try that, stay in that like 15 to 1600 range. It's much better than a 1300 range. And if you do that for four weeks, you're gonna be in a deficit. You will be, especially if you're walking that much consistently. It would be, I would be remiss not to mention like, I want to bring this up in a way, like in a very loving way. Like that's an insane number of steps. I'm saying, 'cause I care about you. I get concerned hearing that because I don't want you to be doing it out of a fear of gaining fat. I don't want you to be doing it with a disordered mindset. If it's just because you're running around after your kids, they've got whatever it is. Like that's fine. But if you're deliberately spending hours a day just walking for the sake of getting steps, that's when I get concerned, especially with the history of disordered eating. So, do you just clarify that for me? - Yeah, no, I, again, it's not every day that I'm gonna get something like that. As soon as the weather's nicer, I like to walk a lot, I'm out for sure. It's for hours, so I have a three and a half year old. So I'm running back and forth with her. I have a big, running up and down the stairs. And then there's like a path that's about like four miles. So I don't do it every day, but I'll do it like a good four times a week. But I'm not doing it to burn because as much as I know about walking and running, my old mindset would have been like, you have to run, you have to run. So walking is very calming for me, I'm a little ADD. - Okay, that's good. - There's a smidge. So I do find that it helps me. Do I sometimes do too much in the back of my mind? - Yes, but I have enough knowledge at this point to know that those extra 5,000 steps or 2,000 steps or 3,000 steps are not making me jacked. I see that they're not. So no, it's from a good place at this point. Yeah, I just, I really enjoy movement and walking is improvement because I used to, you know, do a lot of other stuff, but yeah, now walking is just a chill for me. - Okay, and I don't do that in the winter. You know, I'll do three miles or two miles, but I, it's stinky outside, so I'm not interested. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, that helps, that makes the more confident in my suggestion still. I still think bringing it 15 to 1600 consistently is probably a good deficit for you, along with however many steps you're getting, just chasing your three-year-old around and all that stuff. So I think that'd be good. And then I would go into like, do you like the push-pull leg split? - I do, I really enjoy it. There are some times that I would like to change it up or like mix, push-and-pull or upper body and lower body, but I really enjoy it 90% of the time. - Would you prefer to do a four-day a week upper lower split? - Uh, I would if I started limiting the crossfit, but right now I'm still doing like two to three days of the crossfit. - So are you going to limit crossfit based off of what we spoke about or no? - Well, here's the thing, a couple of months ago, I think I harassed you on one of the pulls about crossfit, and I say harass 'cause I like harassing you. And you told me, you know, you gotta focus, what's important to you? You want the aesthetics or you want the crossfit. Crossfit to me is just a way to have a good time with my friends, lower the weight. - Oh, good. - And stuff as hard. It's more just to have a good time and to learn a little bit, but I'm not dying anymore. - Okay, good. - As long, okay. So it's not to the point where it's overly stressing. - No. - Okay, okay, cool. So the cool part is, as long as it's not overly stressing you, you can still tremendously build more muscle, get more defined from that three-day-week push-pull legs. The thing that I really want you to focus on, which can be difficult if you're changing it up a lot, - Yeah. - Is progressively overloading. So every week, if I ideally stick with the same exercise as week to week, so let's say you're doing the inner circle push-pull legs, or you're also doing the other push-pull legs, whichever like push workout you choose, stick with that one for the month. And then whichever pull workout you choose, stick with that one for the month, whichever legs workout you choose, stick with that one for the month. And every week, try and get better in your movement. If that means adding one more rep, great. If that means adding a little bit of weight, great. I want you to get a little bit better every single week of the program with the same exact program. That's where you're going to get the most out of your muscle growth. That's where you're going to get the most in terms of feeling it more muscle, getting more muscle definition, getting stronger, all of that. And since you're not killing yourself with CrossFit, you're going to have the energy to do that. If you continue to do that, that's going to be the biggest impact you can make on your muscle growth. - Okay, and am I supposed to be training to failure every time? - No, not to failure every time. Generally, listen, I've done training to failure every time, it's devastating. Like, it's really mentally and emotionally a fucking issue. I think occasionally training to failure is fine, but I would say one to two reps left in the tank is a good goal to shoot for. So you finish the set, you could have gotten two more, that's fine. If you could have gotten one more, great. If you're training to where like, I couldn't have gotten any more, that's training to failure. And you don't need to do that. I'd say like one to two reps is a really good goal to shoot for. Okay, okay, that sounds realistic. Let me see what else I were, and then let's say I just wanted to stay in maintenance right now. I didn't want to cut, I'm tired, I've been doing this for a while, what would I do then? Just put the numbers back in and see what it comes up with. - Yeah, so if you want to stay at maintenance right now, you would let here, let's see, I'll do it right here. So that would say, well, I'll just say 128 for the sake of 128 times 12. So that would be between like, it's 1536. So that would be between that 1500 to 1600 that I put you at. But because you're walking so much, it could be more, right? So if you hit that between 1500 to 1600, I think it'd be in a deficit with how much you're walking. But I think if we put you between that 1800 to 2000 range that'll be closer to maintenance for you, everything like training can stay the same. What I would say is if you decide to stay in maintenance, that's gonna be incredibly helpful for your muscle growth. It's gonna be an absolute fucking game changer for your energy in the gym and also for your physiological capability of building more muscle. So if you wanted staying in maintenance nutrition wise and just crushing your workouts for the next six to 12 months, could do absolute wonders, life changing wonders for your physique from the perspective of building more muscle. So if and when you do decide to lose body fat, you don't need to get to 115 anymore. You could get to 120 with that extra weight coming from muscle and look more defined and leaner at a heavier weight. - Okay, I mean, that would make sense because I've seen what I look at at 115. And it's, I mean, like I said, certain areas are great and others are skinny fat. So that would definitely make more sense. What was my other question? And when people do these calorie counting or you know, calorie counters or if you just put it in, like it's fascinating to me that I move so much and do so much and I still need such low numbers. - Yeah, people really-- - Why aren't people more obese? (laughs) I'm serious. - Yeah, so there's something called, have you heard of homeostasis? - Sure. - So it's your body wants to stay exactly where it is. As people are eating in a caloric surplus, so I'll start with this. Usually we see people, they slowly gain weight over the course of their life. It's rarely some, and not say it's impossible, but rarely does someone just go from skinny to fat overnight. Usually from about post college onward, we see a slow gradual incline of people gaining weight into their 40s, 50s, 60s and so on. What happens is as you're eating in a caloric surplus, your body wants to stay exactly where it is, so you get more energy, which makes sense, 'cause you're feeding it more energy. With that more energy, you end up moving more, you end up, some of that energy will go towards muscle, some of that energy will go, you'll be used by your brain for thinking, even for debating, for having conversations, like everything we do burns energy. So your body will do everything it can to burn that extra energy off. So even though people can be eating in pretty significant caloric surpluses, usually their body is adapting to it and doing whatever it can in order to burn that extra off in order to stay where it is. Same thing happens in reverse. When you start trying to lose weight and be eating in a caloric deficit, your body wants to stay where it is, so it increases hunger. It makes you more tired, so you move a lot less. It's the exact same thing. So we see people, they're still gaining weight. It's just much more slowly, which is why I always laugh when people get worried about going on vacation or taking a weekend off. It's like, it's not gonna make a fucking difference. It makes a difference when you just keep quitting and you don't get back on track for a long period of time. So yeah, it's a, and then the other confusing part about it is, and I see men doing this, but I really do see women on social media being the culprits of this more often. You have these insanely lean women on social media who are often very small and they're saying like, look, I eat 4,000 calories. - Yes. - Right, and like, look, I eat like, whatever it is, and you're like, how on the fuck do you eat that many calories? Number one, there's a real chance they're on some form of anabolic steroid performance enhancing drug, even if they're not. First of all, I've never seen a woman in her 30s or 40s or 50s saying this. It's usually very young women in their 20s. I've never, I've just never seen a woman in their 30s or 40s saying this stuff, or beyond. Again, what's the time difference that someone has in their 20s versus in their 30s, 40s, 50s? Assuming you have your children, a more intensive job, whatever it is. Well, a lot of these young women in their 20s are doing hours of cardio, hours and hours of cardio. So yeah, you can eat 4,000 calories after you did two and a half hours of cardio every day. Yes, you absolutely can. I remember like, there was one woman who, when I lived in New York City, when I would go to New York Sports Club, like she was an influencer, and every time I go to the gym, hours of cardio, the whole time, hours of cardio. It's like, it's very, but they're not mentioning that in their post. They're not saying, yeah, I also do compulsively two to three hours of cardio every day. They're just saying, look, I strength train and I can also eat this many calories. And everyone watching is like, well, why can't I eat that many calories? It's like, well, 'cause you're not doing two to three hours of cardio every day. Which, by the way, I don't think you should be doing that. It's a very disingenuous way about it. Okay, I mean, that makes sense. We hate social media, but I lose my gut to meet you on it. You know, I got to meet it right after. I don't do Instagram, man. It was fun for a while. Smart, smart, it's bad right now. It's really bad. It's for crazy starts. It is, I agree. New Jersey, I'm offending people already. But Jordan, so here's us. What is the ideal? Now, again, ideal is different for everybody, but we just spent 40 minutes discussing me, which was so much fun. And what do you think would be the ideal of level of activity? 'Cause I'm telling you that I'm doing, you know, CrossFit, I'm doing walking. And sometimes I run also. I forgot to mention that one. Just a bit. But, just a bit. Okay, go. So, yeah, so like, what would be an ideal for a maintenance or, you know, for body recomps, something like that? Because I also don't, I feel okay now, but I don't wanna run myself ragged for, like, zero purpose. So, the question is, how much movement is ideal? For me, yeah, I don't wanna say it for the whole audience. 'Cause I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ideal from a aesthetics perspective, still chasing that goal. Yeah, baby, all aesthetics. Yeah, so it's difficult to say what's ideal. What I will generally say is the more movement, the more lower intensity movement you get, the better. And there's obviously, I have to be very careful saying this to you, especially with a disordered eating history and all of that. But if we look at the greatest bodybuilders of all time, 'cause really, that's what you're trying to do is bodybuilding, like, physique development. It's what you're doing. Even if you're not competing, like, you're still bodybuilding. If we look at the greatest of all time bodybuilders, they would walk and walk and walk, like, famously. There are famous pictures of Arnold Schwarzenegger just on the treadmill walking, like, of him quoting, like, like, walking, walking, walking, walking. It's so helpful because it's so low intensity. It's very easy on your joints, your tendons, your ligaments. It's very easy on your central nervous system, so it's hard to get burned out from it. And you still can rack up a pretty significant caloric burn over a longer period of time. So from an aesthetics perspective, more lower intensity, the better. And keep in mind, when I say this, because it's purely aesthetics conversation, I'm not taking into consideration time with your family, time for yourself. Like, I'm just not taking that into consideration just based on the pure question of aesthetics. But generally speaking, more low intensity movement, the easier it's going to be for you, the more you're gonna be able to eat, the faster it will go. Obviously, there's a point of diminishing returns in which, you know, you're doing so much that you're, maybe your feet are aching and you're getting tired and you're not able to go as hard in your strength training workouts, which will diminish how much you're gonna be able to do there. But from a health perspective, an aesthetics perspective, low intensity movement is really, it's the king. And what I would say is I wouldn't add any more to what you're already doing. I think you're getting enough. I really do. I think that you're getting more than enough, especially from a health perspective. But yeah, low intensity movement is ideal. - And when you say low intensity, do you mean zone two or-- - It can be zone two. Zone two is the maximum of what I would recommend there. So let's say, for example, you have an elliptical or you like to go on the elliptical that you could do zone two on the elliptical. That's my personal favorite because it's even lower impact. And it's just like, that would be my personal favorite on a machine. Outdoor walking, I think is my ultimate favorite. But when I'm outdoor walking, for example, my wife and I went on a walk this morning, it was not zone two. It was very much zone one, leisurely walk just outside. So anywhere between zone one and zone two, going into zone three, four, five is fantastic from a performance perspective, heart health perspective. It's fine. But you're already doing CrossFit two times a week. You are running now that you just told me. Like you, I think you've got plenty of that higher intensity in there and it has the drawback of the more you do it, the greater stress effect it has on your body. So it's just the lower zone one zone two is you can do a lot more for far less stress on your body. - Okay, one of the reasons why I'm asking that is as I mentioned that I go on the treadmill and do zone two three times a week after lifting. - Yeah. - But I see I don't know that that's necessary. And if it's not, I'm very happy to go walk outdoors or-- - It's not necessary. It's not, I mean, it's great if you enjoy it, but if you'd prefer to be outside in the few months of the year that it's nice in New Jersey, then yeah, just get outside 'cause we're coming up on that time of year that it's nice in New Jersey. - Yeah, okay, okay, that makes sense. You know, I'm okay with cutting down some of what I did. - Good, good, yeah. - It's more like, I don't know, so I sort of dabble and do five million different things 'cause I don't know what I'm doing. - Yeah, and I feel like that's also your personality, like a little bit of this, a little bit of that, yeah. (laughing) - Why be boring when you can be fun and crazy? (laughing) All right, now, let me see. How much more time do we have, Jordan? - About 10 more minutes, 10, 12 more minutes. - Okay, here, let's put a wrench in the whole conversation. So, do you work with people who have done tummy tucks? - Yeah, of course, I mean, as of right now, I'm not doing one-on-one coaching, but yes, I have many times, yeah. - Okay, did it really enhance their lives? - It's a really good question. That's a phenomenal question. - From a fitness standpoint, dude, that's why I'm asking. - From a fitness or mindset, like-- - Both. - It presented a unique set of challenges, fitness-wise, especially early on, and it's funny. This is a really wonderful question. I am very much the kind of guy, like I spoke about my story yesterday, like I'm not gonna try and get my hair back. Like I just like, I love just naturally who you are is who you are, but if I'm being honest, I've never met someone who got a tummy tuck who regretted it. And that's just, I'm not saying you need to, and it's like against my, like I like just being you are who you are, but I've never met anybody who's regretted it, and I've never thought about that, but when you ask the question, that's just the truth. Everyone I know who's gotten it has been much more confident in themselves and very happy that they got it. Now, boo jobs are different. I know many women who regret it, right? So there's, who regret it, they get the X plans, they take them out, but tummy tucks, I've never met one who regrets it, and I've worked with the fair few. Like it's not an insignificant number. It's almost immediately improved their confidence. So it's something worth considering. - I love that. I ask that because I have this discussion with my girlfriends and one of my friends actually got one really recently, and I feel like I would be fine with my weight, my size, and so many things if my stomach was flat. Like I would have no problem with it. I think I spend so much time on this because I just really dislike my stomach, and I spent many years trying to love it anyway, and then do, yay, therapy, and do all those things. And honestly, I just think sometimes there are things that you do, and it really enhances your life, but I was curious because you've worked with people who have done it, and-- - Is your friend happy with it? - Well, hers is fairly new, but I know she's done it. And my friend is not, she's not a size zero. She's a beautiful, healthy size. Size zeros are beautiful and healthy too. And it was just something that always bothered her, and she's dieted, and she's exercised, and she's at a certain point that she's like, you know what, I just, I want to feel good. I want to feel good in my body. So it's just something that I was curious about. It just came up for me now. - Yeah, no, I'm really glad you asked there. Very rarely do I get asked questions that I haven't been asked. That one I had not been asked, and it's the truth. I've just, I've never met someone who regretted it. - I love that. Good, good, I'm glad I asked it. - Yeah, yeah. - One of the GP topics can we cover? - Whatever you want, I'll talk about anything you want. - I honestly think I'm pretty good. Yeah, I mean, going forward, I think I'm going to continue with my CrossFit workouts about two or three times a week. I'm going to continue walking, and I'm going to lift. - And are you going to reduce your calories, or you're going to stay in maintenance? What do you think? - I think I'm going to maintain. - Okay, good, I love that answer. - I don't know, I'm just going through it in my head now, and I don't really want to be so strict. I do want to figure out how to learn more about when to have my protein, how much, and some other knowledge. So either I'm going to have to read some more books, or I did email a couple of trainers, just to see coaches, I would say, just to see if I can learn something, 'cause I would love to. And I'm going to go from there. I'm just waiting on a couple. - You're in the inner circle, right? - Yes, yes. - You know that there's a ton of courses that you can watch in there, right? Like that will teach you this stuff. - So I've watched a few, I don't know if I'm just stupid, or if I almost need that therapeutic emotional aspect of flocking it out with somebody. - That makes sense. - I think that's it for me. - That makes sense, just to have the conversation, not just have the video course. - Yeah, yeah, and again, I'm happy to continue watching them, but I've watched a couple, and I'm like, and I've seen a lot of your YouTube stuff too. And I'm just like, I don't, maybe I want someone to bitch to, I don't know, but I definitely want a little more support with that. - Cool, I love that you know that about yourself. That's amazing, that's perfect, and that makes a lot of sense where you want to have the back and forth, the communication, let me ask you this, let me clarify this, I totally get that, yeah, perfect. - I love that, I love that. - If you want, I'm more than happy to refer you to one-on-one coaches that are wonderful, that if you'd like to work with them, or reference some books if you'd like, but that I think would be wonderful for you, you know, there's a really great book, if you want to get really deep in the science of protein, it's called The Protein Book, or The Protein Handbook by Lyle McDonald. It is the most in-depth book on protein, that's literally ever been written. It is very scientific, he's a great writer, he's one of the godfathers of the fitness industry, very unbiased, straightforward, just tells it like it is, dude. If you want to get into the science of protein, that's definitely the best place to go. - Okay, awesome, yeah, I wrote it down on my handi paper, and as for who to refer out to, you did say on the podcast the other week, like a couple of names, though I did send out emails to some of them. - Oh, good. - Yeah, yeah, I'm waiting to see, I also, the personality has to match, and I want some, you know, around my age, a little bit older than me, it was somebody who's been doing it like a long time, but some of the names you gave me, I spoke to them and they were fantastic. - Good, okay, perfect. - Really fantastic people, so yeah, it's awesome, but shame on you for not doing one-on-one, I'm prioritizing your business and your family, how dare you. I think I was yelling at Kat in one email, like you're sure? Listen, you're allowed to. - Maybe one day, maybe one day, you know, it's funny, like I really do, I love the inner circle, and I love one-on-one coaching. I really, I like in-person coaching a lot, it's just like, I really do, so I like to have people come over to my garage and just like, we'll work out together and it'll help them out, just like, just for free, it's just fun for me. Yeah, maybe one day I'll get back into the one-on-one online, for right now, if you're ever in Dallas, you can always come work out with me in my garage. - Do it, man. I'm gonna come like that way, man, at all. (laughing) Yeah, there's nothing like in-person, it's so nice. - It's fun, and like you said, especially with CrossFit, CrossFit is the best mainstream company in the world for fitness to create community. Like, I don't think anyone does it better than them. - Yeah. - It may, SoulCycle has done very well in the spin world, but in terms of like strength and conditioning, I think CrossFit does it best. I don't know anyone that does it better. - Yeah, yeah, we have a good time. You gotta be a little crazy to do CrossFit, but we do have a- - Yes, you do. (laughing) - I've never met anyone normal there yet. (laughing) - And I bet you hear a lot of crazy nutrition advice when you're there. (laughing) - Even though I have to say at my gym, it wasn't bad. Like a couple of members who were macro coaches, and I feel like that whole paleo, whatever type of way of talking, definitely not in Jersey. Nobody's promoting any of that. We just, I feel like in CrossFit, be closetators to everybody. - Yeah. - Really get everybody. - Yeah. - So, you know, you have people who will come and meet garbage, myself included in the beginning, and then think we can outwork the garbage with 25 minutes. So that took me time to really understand, but yeah, now my gym was very good about that. - Good. (laughing) - Yeah. - Well, Rachel, thank you so much. I hope this was helpful. It was fantastic. - Good, good. - I liked it. - Do you, you're not on social media. I was gonna say if you want people to follow you, they can, but no, you're, okay, cool. Okay. - No, no, no, not anymore in my life has been simpler. I mean, to be honest, after October 7th, is right now. - Oh, yeah. - So I went on Telegram, and I went on Instagram, and I just, I mean, I watched some stuff that I still have to be from. - Yes. - So, yeah, I think it was a mind opener, just the stuff that, you know, you see people posting in nasty comments, and it was like, why am I getting my blood pressure up for what it is? - Yeah, what's the purpose? - Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of good that comes out of it, but I think sometimes the bad outweighs it. So, as a nice little Jewish girl, I'm gonna stay off of it for now. - I think that's smart. I think that's very smart. Maybe one day, hopefully sooner rather than later, I will join you and stop it. (laughing) - You can do it for life. Best thing on the planet. - I will say, and this is, I'll keep this in the podcast. I don't add the podcast, but one day, I would really like to do more advocacy work, especially around Israel. And, you know, it's funny, a lot of people don't realize that Israel is home to over two million Arab citizens. - Of course. - That will equal rights, that they serve in parliament, they have their own political parties, they are full equal citizens. And so, when they say down with Israel, it's like you do realize you're saying down with two million Arabs as well. So, it's, I would like to do more advocacy and education around that, because it's just stuff that I don't think people understand. - I love that, and you might need to edit this, but I think my attitude at this point is, you know, Hater's gonna hate. So, you know, people wanna judge Jews or judge Israel. I think advocacy is amazing for the people that are uneducated, but we want, but unfortunately, there's so many people that just have this view of Israel, and it's just so. - It's an all uneducated view. It's all uneducated. They've been brainwashed, they've never been, they just believe whatever they watch two TikTok videos, and they think that they're an expert. It's really, it's crazy. For me, you know, I think about something like the Holocaust, and people hear about the Holocaust, and they think of the Holocaust and isolation, but if you understand history, this has happened all throughout history. It's like, it's every 100 years, there's another Holocaust. And even like, that's just talking about Jews, obviously it happens to other groups and people all the time, but historically it's happened to Jews over and over and over and over again. And so, in my mind, the way that I think about preventing it is when we look at the Holocaust, so much of it happened from a lack of education, a lack of knowledge. It's just like, there were some people who were, you know, vehemently against the Jews, but a lot of people who were more just like, "Ah, I don't really know, I don't really know." And you don't need a majority of people to hate another people in order to wreak havoc, right? I mean, I think a mass shooter is the perfect example. You have one person, one person can cause extreme carnage. You just need enough people with bad intent, and then everyone else to be more passive about it for something really horrible to happen. And so, my thought, and I've spoken about it, like this is my passion outside of fitness is this type of stuff, education around this type of stuff. So, I would love to spend more time, and I would like to lead groups, bring them to Israel, like teach them about it. Like 'cause I don't know anyone who's been, who can say a single, who, everyone who goes is like, "I had no idea about any of this stuff." Like, which is why like, you need to go, you need to be, or you need to see it. Like you can't just watch these, is people don't realize that they're seeing propaganda. They don't realize that it's, that they're being fed propaganda. - Well, I think also, you know, after October 7th, a lot of, I think a lot of Jewish people understood how the Holocaust happened. You know, I grew up post Holocaust, my grandparents went through the Holocaust, and the propaganda was the biggest, biggest, biggest piece, because exactly, it had, you know, lack of education, or again, you know, Germany went through a lot after World War I, it really was a shit, though, and here was a skate bone, it was easy to blame, and I mean, have you seen some of the posters, or the things that used to be put up, and it's like, oh my God, but you know what, I've gone on TikTok, and I've gone on Instagram, and there's the same crap, and it just sucks, because we come in all different color, shape, sizes, Jews. I mean, and it's just, it's frustrating, but all we can do is-- - It's funny when they say, like, these, like, white colonizer Jews, I'm like, you do realize there are-- - Had to be the Opians. - There are Ethiopian Jews, there are Jews from Iraq, there are Jews from Africa, there are Jews from Spain, there's like, what do you mean, like, just white? Just-- - My friends speak Arabic, they say it's from up. I ran, I ran, Syria, like, all the internet. - Yemen, exactly. - Yemen, it's like, are you kidding me? - Yeah, it's actually wild, it really is, it's incredible, just the lack of knowledge about it, so anyway, I think you're amazing. I'm gonna hit Stop Recording, I'd love to talk to you for a few more seconds, but thank you so much. - Thank you, Jordan. [BLANK_AUDIO]