The Jordan Syatt Podcast

The Eight Grade Pregnancy, Tony's Intervention, Optimizing Steps and Cardio, Lifting with a Nagging Injury, Flexibility Training, My Favorite Non-Fitness Books, and More...

In this episode of The Jordan Syatt Mini-Podcast, I shoot the breeze and answer questions from the listeners with my podcast producer, Tony. We discuss the story of the eight grade pregnancy, optimizing steps and cardio, flexibility training, lifting with a nagging injury, my favorite non-fitness books, Tony's intervention, and more.... Do you have any questions you want us to discuss on the podcast? Give Tony a follow and shoot him a DM on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tone_reverie/ . I hope you enjoy this episode and, if you do, please leave a review on iTunes (huge thank you to everyone who has written one so far). Finally, if you've been thinking about joining The Inner Circle but haven't yet... we have hundreds of home and bodyweight workouts for you and you can get them all here: https://www.sfinnercircle.com/ .

Duration:: 1h 2m
Broadcast on:: 30 Jun 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

(upbeat music) Antonio. - Good morning. - What's up, brother? - I don't know, man. I don't know what's wrong with me. I think I'm getting sick again. - Oh, geez, I'm sorry. - Yeah, it's like very annoying. - To be honest, that does make me a little bit happy just because the way that you looked and sounded, looked like you're about to deliver devastating news, like, and don't you? And then you're like, oh no, he's about to give me really bad news and you're like, I might be getting sick, which is not good, but my mind went catastrophic. So that's better than what it could have been. - I do think that you have more than the normal share of empathy, which is why I think you're a good coach. I mean, when I listen to your inner circle member podcast, it's like very clear that you're thinking about where they're coming from and how they're feeling when you're asking questions. And so I just saw a glimpse of that right now and you're like, oh no, what's wrong? What's wrong, Tony? - Does it just feel like a head cold coming on, something like that? Just like a little coffee. I just kind of woke up feeling slogan. And I've always gotten sick a lot and I'm trying to think about things I could do to not get sick as much. I just attribute it to sleep schedule, which I don't have the most control over in the short run at least. And then I'm interacting with people, like strangers, coworkers, like every day. Like I'm curious, how many people do you like shake their hand in a day? - In a day, dude, I'd probably be better if I went by like the month. - Yeah, I feel like that's gotta be part of it. Like if I'm doing a different event at a different venue and there's, you know, I'm shaking hands with the client and I'm saying hi to the coworkers and I'm, you know, that's got account for-- - To be fair, that also does strengthen the immune system. You're exposed to so many more things. So like long term, I think it's better. Short term, it might not be as fun or comfortable, but long term, I actually think it's better for you. With that being said, I mean, you're doing late nights. Like you're up really late at these events. - I think that's the biggest thing. - I think that's it way more like sleep, way more. And then what's sun exposure like? Are you getting out in the sun at all? - It's very uneven. Like honestly, one of my favorite things to do, especially this time of year because it's not so hot yet and the mosquitoes haven't shown up yet, which is that's a real thing in DC. - Yeah, it's just sit outside for an hour or two and just it's so restorative. But dude, that's like a luxury. Like if I get to do that once or twice a week, that's awesome. Isn't that crazy that that's like the world that we have where like being able to sit outside in the sun is a luxury, you know, it says a lot. But I think sun exposure, vitamin D in general, sleep, those things are really hard to beat as you're like your major priority. Sleep is absolutely, I would put sleep and sleep has to be number one, but like sun exposure, vitamin D is a close number two. So, and then also to be fair, those are things you can control. Genetics plays a factor in it as well, right? Like genetics plays a factor in literally everything. You know, it's funny, like it plays a factor in literally everything. We could talk about this all podcasts we wanted to, but I have a buddy who is meticulous with his teeth. Like absolutely meticulous with his teeth. But he has cavities like no one's like, you wouldn't believe it. And it's because of how many cavities that he's had that he's gotten even more and more and more meticulous. He's learned about teeth like he's not a dentist, but like the dude could be like he works so hard to keep his teeth healthy, but just no matter what, he just keeps getting cavities over and over and over again. And that is, I very much believe is a genetic thing, where it's like, no matter how much he tries, no matter what he does, oral health wise, nutrition wise, whatever to try and maximize his oral health, just like genetically, he's more predisposed to it. I think people are like that with, there's literally everything, and I think the same thing with getting sick. So, that could also be something that you're more predisposed to is getting these little colds. Yeah, new fear unlocked, you know. (laughs) But suddenly I'll be prone to it. Poor dental health. Dude, there's always, there's always something worse, right? That's like, that's why I was a little bit happy and you were like, yeah, get in a little bit of a head comb. Okay, good, it's not something like super serious. I also have a huge catastrophizer. I'm not doing therapy right now, but when I was doing therapy, that was something my therapist told me, he was like, you're a catastrophe. You just immediately go to the worst case scenario, which in some ways is good and in some ways is not good. In some ways, it's good because I sort of get an immediate perspective shift where it's like, just like we just saw where I thought it was going to be really bad and then it wasn't, okay, cool. It could be worse, but on the other hand, there's a lot of fear in my life where it's just like, oh my God, worst case scenario, we're losing everything, it was like, it's gone. And so being able to manage that is important, but I'm sorry you're not feeling your best, dude. - You know, the story about the eighth grade girl or something and she comes home to her parents and she has like, guys, we have to talk. - No. - Just sit them down and her parents are like really, kind of like you, they're like really concerned 'cause she looks really serious and they're like, okay, honey, like what's going on? - Well, I think she's pregnant or something. - And she's like, I'm pregnant. - Oh, geez. And like the look on their faces, it probably only lasts like a couple seconds, but like for them, it's an eternity. And they're like, oh my God, how did this happen? Is it that guy, Jerry? Like what, you know? (laughing) - Is that guy Jerry? - And then she's like, actually I flunked out a geography class. - Oh no. (laughing) - That's genius. That's genius, I love that. And then they're like, oh, thank God, you just. (laughing) - No, that's not that bad, right? - Oh my gosh, that's actually super funny. I really like that. It's not a good strategy used consistently with people 'cause then they'll just, you know, as the prime wolf. - Boy, you cried wolf, yeah. - Or girl who cried wolf in the situation, but either way, yeah. That is actually hilarious. - Dude, I feel like I haven't seen you in a while. - It's been, I think, two weeks, two weeks. I mean, when people are listening, it won't seem like that just because we have so many backlogged. But it's just been crazy busy, man. Got a puppy, toddler, a pregnant wife who's like almost an her third trimester. This pregnancy is going by so fast, dude. The first one, it's funny. The first one felt like it took forever because you don't have a kid yet. And so you're just, everything is based around when is the baby coming and trying to get everything ready. And you're just always thinking about it. It's all you think about. But now, when you already have a kid, it's crazy enough, never mind a puppy on top of it. It's like, this pregnancy is flying by 'cause like, we don't have as much time to think about it. It's very interesting. So speaking of like catastrophizing with the puppy and the toddler and the pregnancy, do you just not have time to worry about stuff now? - Oh, dude, I've got plenty of time to worry. (laughs) I've got plenty of time to worry. It's the thing about, I think that's important to distinguish is I worry, but I also manage my worry very well. I think it's two, they're two different things. Some people, they view worrying as like, you're worrying, you're anxious, and you let the worry and anxiety paralyze you. It doesn't paralyze me. Like I can simultaneously worry and also get shit done. And just like, I don't let it stop me. And I think that's probably the best way I'm able to manage it where it's like, okay, like this is a real concern regardless of how likely it is to happen. It's a real concern. I'm experiencing this emotion right now, but I still gotta do this other shit. So it's like, and I also think it does help me manage the anxiety and the emotion because when I'm doing stuff, I'm not just thinking about that anymore. I have other stuff to take care of. But yeah, I mean, there's all that. And then by the time this goes live, it'll already be live, but we have the Inner Circle Mobility Programs, which are, we designed three new mobility programs and each program has three individual phases, which is just like an insane, insane, insane amount of work. So each phase is like four to six weeks. So it's nine total programs for mobility, one for toe touch, so like bending over your hamstrings, your low back mobility, one for your squat depth, so for your hip mobility and one for your shoulder mobility, like reaching overhead and just shoulder health. So they were launching that soon, making obviously constant changes and updates to the Inner Circle app. Susan is actually here right now. She's here, we're doing the Inner Circle stuff this whole week. Yeah, dude, it's crazy in this house. And we're building a house. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Well, yeah, man, let's jump in. - Let's do it. Are you getting a bunch of questions for the podcast? - Yeah, yeah. No, I know you asked. I just try to engage sometimes. - Yeah. - Like, you know, I'm not that. - You're not the most active social media. (laughing) - Which is honestly probably good for you. I think it's better. - I think if I had, especially like having tried to be more active at times, like I think if it came more naturally or if I felt more like excited about it, it would be good, but it's just for me. It's just, it feels like work. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel you. - I mean, it is work for sure. - Yeah. - Actually, really quick, before we get into the questions, number one, anyone listening, everyone listening, if you have not left a review for the podcast yet, it would mean the world to me. If you could, if you could leave a five-star review, and especially if you could leave a written review explaining what you enjoy about the podcast, what it's helped you with, why you would encourage someone else to listen to it, they really help a lot. I tend to ask at the end of the podcast, oftentimes by the time people have finished listening. So I wanted to make a note like, please, please, please leave a review, especially if you haven't done it yet. It means the world to me and it helps a lot and the written reviews really help the most. So also, if you have any questions that you would like us to talk about, you can DM Tony on Instagram, his Instagram is in the show notes, shoot him a message, anything you want to ask, it could be anything, it could be fitness, health, nutrition, strength training, mobility, it could be personal, it could be, I don't know, business, finance, personal training, family, relationship, whatever you want. But if you have any questions, DM Tony, and make sure you follow Tony as well. - Right on, thanks y'all. So this question is from EatPlateLove. I've got a question for the podcast, apologies in advance for being long winded. I've seen Jordan respond to Instagram Q&As about do steps in cardio count with a strong yes answer. I agree, obviously, that steps done during cardio count as steps, but I'm curious on Jordan's opinion on altering step goals on cardio days. There's nothing magical about steps they're used as a proxy for daily movement. So if steps during cardio are included towards a daily goal, you run the risk of reducing your overall daily movement. For example, let's say my daily step goal is 10,000, and I do 1,000 steps during a weights workout, 7,000 steps during a schedule zone to run. On run days, if I still aim for the same total step goal, I'm going to be significantly less active outside of those workouts. I personally will increase my step goal on cardio days. So my daily steps outside of my scheduled workout is relatively constant, but I would love Jordan's two cents. - Yeah, so it's a great question. I also love your handle, by the way. This is honestly a very classic case of overthinking it. It's overthinking it, it's over stressing it. The overall daily step goal is the most important. So yes, like if you get the same steps on a cardio day and non-cardio day, then you'll probably be less active outside of that cardio that you've done. So in your normal day-to-day activities, but that's okay. You still hit the same relative amount of movement because the same number of steps have been achieved throughout the day. So it really doesn't matter. It really truly doesn't matter. Not to mention, if this is the amount of activity you're getting, and this is how like, you're in the top 5% of people period, like you're incredibly active. I can't say whether or not you're healthy. I don't have your blood work in front of me. I don't know that, but your habits are very healthy habits. You move a lot. You don't need to be, you're missing the forest for the trees, you're focused on the minutia. You are majoring in the miners. I wonder how many of these I could say, right? You're focusing on the things that are so small and minuscule that you're actually, you're missing the forest for the trees here. You're putting the cart before the horse, right? (laughing) Keep it going. (laughing) It really, it doesn't matter. It truly, truly, truly does not matter at all. I would say, if, at this point, if you have a cardio day and you're doing, you're getting 7,000 steps during your zone to run, I would say what it would probably be better than trying to spend more time getting extra steps in outside of that is, I would say like, I don't know, maybe go spend time with a friend or a loved one and have a meaningful conversation. I would say, maybe read a book or like, sit down and relax or sit down and get some sunlight. Just, if we really look at health factors that really impact health, the reason that I brought up having a meaningful conversation with a friend or a loved one is because your community around you is among like the most important things. So that's like the number one determinant of health and longevity long term is, do you have a meaningful loving community around you in person? So, if the choice is like, okay, spend an extra 45 to 75 minutes getting steps in alone or sitting down and having a meaningful conversation with a loved one or a close friend or trying to make new friends, that's the no-brainer for me right there because you're already getting plenty in, like you're getting 7,000 steps in zone two, a thousand steps during your strength-turning session, like you're fucking good, go do something else. Your fitness is good for the day, that's it, you're fine. - Yeah, and I could see where, you know, if you always got all of your steps in like one 45, one thousand, or one hour session in the day and you just sat there for the other 12 hours, that it might be good to like mix it up, right? Like there is a spectrum there, but you know, that's an extreme case, right? It's an extreme case, but even that it's, I would still say like, you're at least getting your movement minimums and ideally I would like it in an ideal world. Yeah, I'd like it to be a little bit more spread out, but even then it's like, I'm not gonna nitpick, you're still getting the movement in, it's the most important and same thing like with protein intake. It's very similar where it's like, listen, if you get most or all of your protein in at the end of the day, is it ideal, like optimized? No, like I would like it a little bit spread out more throughout the day for a number of reasons, but like the most important is that you get your total protein in, period. And then from there, you can focus on other things. So if someone has a crazy job where, or a crazy lifestyle in which they can only get their movement in in one single block of movement and then they have to focus on other things or they're gonna be super stressed out, the stress that they have and that they take on without being able to change that or without like doing everything they can, maybe reducing their sleep in order to try and get more movement in later in the day to space it out more. It's like, the stress is gonna do more harm than they will get positively from making that change and maybe having to do more at a different time in the day. So for me, the most important thing is total movement. And I think that's, once you have that movement checked off and that box checked off, we can focus on other things. - Yeah, I'm sort of imagining like, like there's lowest hanging fruit in any given moment. And once you grab that, go to the next one. 'Cause that's gonna make the biggest impact correct. - That's exactly right. - Carp before the horse, lowest hanging fruit. - Missing the forest for the trees. - Majoring the miners. - Yeah, yeah. - Killing it. - We should have a bell and every time we use like one of these. - Oh, I like that. - We like bring the bell. - I like that. (laughing) - So speaking of wisdom, this question is from Andy Hayes, 1985. What are some of your favorite non-fitness specific books for wisdom, mindset, et cetera? For example, some of my favorite reads in recent years was The Obstacle is the Way, Atomic Habits, and Think Like a Monk. I can tell when I hear you to speak or Jordan with Susan or Mike on other episodes, there's a lot of wisdom there with a vast majority of it being from experience, 100%. But if any books come to mind, let us know. Thanks. - That's a great question. Also, those are great books as well. Atomic Habits is a phenomenal book. Yeah, they're all great. So what I would say, my genres of books tend to be two different genres. If we're talking outside of fitness. So I have my fitness, but then outside of fitness, I've got two main genres. Number one is history. - I knew it. - And you learn a lot from history, right? So I love learning a lot from history. But the other one is, I really like books that focus on behavior and speech. So, and specifically how you behave and speak to other people, that to me is very interesting. And it makes sense, if you think about number one, my job, which is number one, first and foremost, coaching people, how I speak to them and how they interpret what I'm saying is absolutely essential to get the best possible outcome. So the way they're, it's not just what I intend to say, it's how they interpret what I'm saying that really actually matters. There are some people who say your intent doesn't matter, it's how we interpret it that matters, like, well, that's wrong, of course your intent matters. If intent didn't matter, then there wouldn't be different forms of sentences in prison for either manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter, right? The intent absolutely matters. But what's most important is how the person interprets what you're saying. And so that for me is one of the reasons why I love learning about speech and tonality and how you phrase certain questions because it drives their response. So I love that stuff. I think that the classic book, and this is an old-time book, I don't like the title. The title is a little bit-- Yeah, how to win president influence people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, by Dale Carnegie. It's funny, I read this book when I was 18. Did I tell you about this? Did I tell you someone, you know, the story? I'm not sure, tell me again. So my buddy was like, oh man, you've got to read this book. This is an amazing book. And I was like, OK, fine. So I started reading it. And as I'm reading this book, everything that I'm reading, I'm just like, I don't understand why this is revolutionary. This is one of the most sold books in the world. It's one of the most classic books that's ever been written. It's an old book. But to this day, it's one of them. It sells more copies than many, many, many other books. And everything I'm reading, I'm like, this is obvious to me. I know this. I do this. So I haven't read it. Is it like when you shake someone's hand, look at them in the eye and smile? No, no, no. It's much more practical than that. And it's things that most people wouldn't understand. But what I found interesting-- I didn't realize this until my buddy Mike figured this out. So I took a Myers-Briggs personality test and I'm an ESTP. So that's-- do you know the-- I remember it from Psych 101, but-- Yeah. So extroverted sensing, thinking, perceiving as the ESTP. If anyone hasn't taken it, it's very interesting. I encourage you to take it. But I'm an ESTP. And the author of "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is also an ESTP. And there are 16 different ones you can follow under. So generally, ESTPs are naturally good at that type of an interaction. They're good at perceiving what other people are feeling. That's where the P comes in. You're very good at perceiving what other people are feeling. And you're able to adjust based on not just like their facial response, but their tone. And generally, you are very good at number one. Empathy comes more naturally to you. So you are very good at perceiving other people and adjusting how you present yourself to make them feel more comfortable and to help them make a change, which I think helps make me a better coach. But it's funny, because that book, everything in it-- I was like, I do this. I do this. I do this. I do this. Like, this isn't difficult for me. But all of my friends and family members who've read it who are not like me, it's helped them dramatically. Interesting. It's helped them understand people better. It's helped them structure conversations better. It's helped them in general. And it's also one of those books that you can always go back and reread it. So if someone-- I read that 12 years ago, read it again. It's a very good book. Another really good book, I'm almost finished with it right now, which is actually very similar to it. And in a different way, it's called Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. I'm almost done with it. I've been listening to it while I work out. And Chris Voss is a famous hostage negotiator. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I heard a podcast with him, I think. Dude, it's so funny. Actually, let me see. I'm going to go with this right now. Chris Voss Myers Briggs. Let's see what he is. If I recall, I think he says he's an ISFJ. What are you? This is just the string of letters in my memory. But I think I'm I-N-T-P. I-N-T-P-I. And I don't even remember what-- That makes total sense. The N is intuition. I believe it's intuition. That actually makes a lot of sense. So introverted, intuition, thinking, perceiving. Yeah. But Never Split the Difference is-- it's a phenomenal book. And he uses instances from his hostage negotiations to get these points across. But so much of it is about how to structure a conversation. The types of questions to ask people. I think these types of books are-- especially Never Split the Difference, but both of them are great, especially for people with social anxiety. I think it's funny if I go to a social event or something. I know many people get very anxious. They're like, I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. And what's funny for me is when I go to a social event, I never struggle with that just because at any point in time, I know exactly how to phrase a question to get any other person just to talk, just like tell me. Because that's the most awkward part of any social situation where you don't know someone right. And that's why people end up standing in the corner pretending to look at their phone awkwardly being there. Once you know how to frame questions and engage a conversation and get someone else talking, immediately the ice is broken. And you can start to feel more comfortable. And so a lot of it is just about-- it's less about what you say and more about getting someone else to talk and being a really good listener and being able to ask questions. So I'll give you one of my favorite questions that I'll ask someone when I first meet them, especially in a social event, you're at a dinner party, whatever it is, rather than just saying, like, where are you from? Because it's just a one-word answer. It's like, I'm from Ontario. OK, cool. You could start with that. It could be the leading question where you're from. And then they say there. And then the follow-up question is, oh, well, how'd you end up here? Number one, any question that starts with how? It's inherently not a one-word question. Yeah, it's a process. It's not a one-word answer, excuse me. It's a process. And when you get people to-- when you ask the question how'd you end up here, they'll tell you their whole fucking life story. And now your job is just listen. That's just listen. And I want to say, listen, I mean actually listen. Don't be looking at other people on the table. Don't be pretending. I mean, really listen. Is my wife, when we first started dating even now, she regularly talks about how I'm very good at asking questions. But being very good at asking questions comes from actually listening to people. What are they saying? And then as they're talking to you, coming up with more questions, oh, how'd that happen? Where'd you get here? Why did you say that instead of this? Whatever it is. So I think Never Split the Difference is a really, really cool book, number one, from a social anxiety perspective. I also think if you are trying to negotiate a raise for yourself or get better job opportunities, it's a really cool book. But overall, I think those two books are just-- I think everyone should read those books. Never split the difference and how to infringe and influence people. Because what they really do is they just make you more aware of what other people are feeling and thinking so that you can have more empathy and also lead better conversations. And it's funny, when you get someone to talk-- like, for example, if I can get someone to talk and just tell me about themselves, and I say literally nothing, I just listen. By the end of the night, they're going to think I'm the best. I could say literally nothing. You just be like, oh, wow, just like little like active listening phrases, but I could say nothing. And they just feel comfortable enough to tell me about them. By the end of the night, they're like, that guy's fucking awesome. And all I did is listen. And so if you can just get people to feel comfortable enough to talk, life will be much easier for you. And I think most people have this idea that it's the reverse. They have this idea that in order to get people to like them, they have to do certain things or say certain things. No, just get them to feel comfortable enough to talk to you. And as long as they feel comfortable enough to talk, boom, you're good. And it's a way more comfortable situation. So I can relate to that a lot. One of the things that when I started getting on the podcast, I realized was it's like, man, I love asking the questions. But it seems to put the microscope back on me. I'm like squirming. I'm like, oh, I don't really want to-- I don't know. It was just like-- and I realized that in my daily life, that's how I am, too. I'm interested in other people. I don't really love talking about myself. Do you think that you're interested in other people because you're truly interested in them? Or is having the microscope on you, having the microphone on you, is that just so uncomfortable that it's easier for you to focus on other people? That's deep, man, because my first instinct was like, yeah, no, I am genuinely interested. You're actually interested. One of my favorite things about any relationship is the process of really getting to know someone and how they take. And I mean, friendships and coworkers and not just romantic relationships, right? But that is, to me, one of the more interesting, exciting things about life. But when you say, but is it possible that it's because you're uncomfortable? And I'm like, there's probably a lot of truth there. And one probably reinforced the other. What is hard for you about having the microscope on you or having you being the one putting your thought? What's difficult about that? That's a good question. I mean, to be blunt, probably just insecurity, right? Like probably just, am I really that interesting? Or am I that-- do I really have something to offer in this situation? So I think, for me, I've found a strength in bringing things out of other people and talking to other people and helping other people. And so it's like, that is the thing that I can do, right? I don't know. You're very good at asking those questions and getting people to feel comfortable enough to talk. And you also, whether it's with me or with Taylor or whoever it is, you interact with people who are very good at speaking and who are like, that's our job. And so then maybe in your mind, you're like, oh, man, I'm not as interesting as them or I don't have as much knowledge as them or whatever it is. So then maybe in your head, you're wondering, why would I be talking when they could be talking? Is that right? Oh, that's a lot of it. I mean, when you're speaking to a subject matter expert on something like you're not a subject matter expert on it, it is like the gap in knowledge is very obvious. Yeah. Even in just the vocabulary, like using the correct language to discuss something, an idea. But I think it's like in my personal life, too, I think I feel that same. Do you feel like in a relationship, like a romantic relationship, it's difficult for you to fully express or have to fully let your guard down and feel like what you're saying is worthwhile? No, actually, I think in that context, this is where like I'm a Virgo, you know? It just takes me some time to open up, but yeah. So is it mostly in like a public facing context? Yeah, I think so, or like people I'm not as familiar with? Mm-hmm, that makes sense. That makes sense. I mean, slow to open up, fast to ask questions. Have you received any bad feedback from either our podcast or Taylor? It's like from people like, "Hey, Tony, you sucker." I've never gotten that yet and I'm knocking on wood. Yeah, that the small amount of feedback that I get is generally very kind and encouraging and makes me smile, so thank you for that. Dude, you're great. You're so, I mean, listen, we've been doing this for how long now, like if you were bad, I wouldn't be, I would have been like, "Hey, brother, this isn't working." Like you're very good at what you do and I love when you have your input and I love when you inject your own thoughts. Even like, obviously if it's fitness, like I'm obviously happy to take the lead, but when it's just life and chatter and shooting the shit, like I love hearing your thoughts and opinions on stuff, so I think you're great at it and you have, but I think a lot of people don't understand about, like when I share my stuff on social media, not the fitness stuff, but the life stuff, it's a very normal life. It's like super normal life, right? Like it's, and for some reason I think when people watch it on their phone, it appears as though it's, I don't know, there's something, it's not different. It's a normal life, so I think we all have the exact same things to offer. It's more just about being comfortable telling your story. That's what it boils down to is like, and storytelling, I think, is a skill. I should take the, I think, part out. Storytelling is a skill. My buddy Mike, for example, we were just talking about this recently, where he has a tendency when he's telling a story about himself to cut the story short, where he'll just start telling the story, and then in his mind thinks like, I'm gonna leave out these details because the details don't matter, I'm just gonna get to the end. That actually makes the story worse. A story is built on the details and generally a longer story, and there's a limit to this, but a longer story generally is better than a shorter story. The details make the story. So, I mean, if you're gonna tell a story, and it's like, I don't know, if it ends with my dog jumped in his poop, that's the end, which he has done, and it's devastating for so many reasons. If I was like, yeah, we went out, my dog jumped in the poop. Like, that's funny, but if I was like, oh yeah, we were playing, and I tell all the details of like, yeah, he was sniffing around the house, and I thought he was gonna poop in the house, but then I had to pick him up, and as soon as he did that, my daughter threw her milk, and like, you build it up, but if you just jump to the end, because either you think they're not necessary, or you think people are getting bored, then you actually create a shitty story, 'cause you stop giving the details that are really important, but the only difference is a good story is built on your details, and I think you need to have the confidence to be comfortable to tell the details. It's the details that really make a good storyteller, and that, I think, comes with just knowing what you have to say is worthwhile, and we all are worthwhile. We all have a good story to tell. You just gotta be comfortable enough to tell it, and that's it. - Yeah, yeah. I feel like you gotta write another book, man. - No, I don't know, man. That process was awful. (laughing) That was a terrible process. I don't think I ever wanna do that again. (laughing) I don't think you're the only person that I've heard that sentiment from. - Yeah, it's not fun. It's really not fun, and I know a lot of people who write, not all of them, but a lot of people who write many, many books have ghost writers, and they don't actually write the book, and so, again, there are some people I know who didn't use ghost writers in huge prop to them, but most of them who write multiple books have ghost writers, which I'm just, I'm not gonna do that. - Mm-hmm. Next question. - Let's do it. - I feel like I should pay you for therapy right now. (laughing) So this is from Mama Thistle and Bird. Hey, Tony, I'm an inner circle member, and have a question I'd love Jordan to cover in the next podcast. First, I play tennis in a few times a week. I get tennis elbow flaring up. Chin up, bench press, dumbbell press, and even push-ups can make it worse if it's flared up. Any tips from Jordan on continuing to lift upper body when a nagging injury persists? - Oof, first and foremost, thank you for being an inner circle member. I appreciate it. It means the world to me and my family, so thank you. This is a tough one, because it sounds like you're very active, and the thing that you need to do when you have especially something like tennis elbow is you need to rest it. It needs rest. There's inflammation, and the only way that inflammation will subside is if you give it rest and do nothing that causes any pain or discomfort. If you persist to work through it, it will only make it worse. So if playing tennis makes it worse, you gotta stop playing tennis. What I would do is I would challenge you, let's say, like, listen, I'm no tennis player, but I've played tennis, but I'm not a tennis player, where, like, generally I would use my right hand for my forehand, and I would challenge you to try and get good with your left hand, try and become more of an ambidextrous player, which you're gonna look goofy as shit when you first start doing it. It's gonna be really, really difficult, but if you just love tennis and you don't wanna give tennis up, play with the other hand. Give that a shot, and then, after, I don't know, two, three years of that, you're gonna be a way more dangerous player when you can play with both hands, even if you're, like, let's say you're right handed, if your left hand only gets to 70% of your right hand, that's still a dangerous player, and you'll actually end up putting less stress on your right arm, because you'll be able to use your left arm for more hits and for more things, and so you'll actually end up accruing less overall volume and stress on that arm through playing tennis. So I would recommend, if you don't wanna give up tennis altogether, try getting better with your other hand. As for the lifting, whether it's the chin-ups or the bench press or push-ups, when you have a flare-up, stop all of that. There are plenty of exercises you can do that aren't gonna stress the elbow. Chin-ups will absolutely stress the elbow. That's, like, the number one thing that comes to my mind is, like, if I had to pick one exercise that would make it worse, it would be chin-ups. That's just a lot of stress on the elbow, completely suspending all of your weight, and it's not a good idea to do that. I would recommend doing things that are a little bit more isolation-focused, rather than compound exercises. So you could do things like face pulls or rear delt raises, which are a little bit more focused on the rhomboids and the rear delts, obviously. I would focus on, I would not do any direct bicep curls that probably wouldn't feel good on your elbow. I probably also wouldn't do much if any tricep work, because that's like, they're both just elbow flexion extension, but you could absolutely do shoulder work. You could do back work. Obviously, legs feel free to go crazy on legs and core. That's no problem whatsoever. But anything that puts stress on the elbow, take it off until there's no pain. And I know it's not fun to hear, but I would rather you take two to four weeks off from lifting stuff that stresses your elbow and then recover and be fine, than to keep trying to push through it and then have an injury that's gonna take six months. So when you have a flare-up, take time off and switch arms. And also, I should have said this at the beginning, I would encourage you to see a physical therapist. They do have some modalities that they can use to help get over it maybe a little bit more quickly and to help prevent it happening in the future. But in the meantime, especially if you aren't seeing a physical therapist, you've gotta give it a rest, because if you try and work through it, it's gonna make it way worse. - So you said a cool word, you said inflammation. And I know, based on your answer, that sounds like rest is king when it comes to letting that subside. Are there other things that people can do to reduce inflammation? I know in the fitness industry, there's a lot of things marketed to bring down inflammation. What do you think, is there anything worth doing? A supplement, an ice, you know, anything like that? - No, so it's funny, for when I was coming up in the industry, icing it was seen as like the best thing that you could do. And for many, many years, icing it was seen as like this is what you have to do. In recent years, icing has recently been found to slow down the healing process. An inflammation is seen as a bad thing, but it's actually your body's natural response to healing. It's not a bad thing. It's just when it's very inflamed, you don't wanna be aggravating it further. So icing it actually prevents the inflammation, but the inflammation is there to help heal it. So I would prefer you don't ice it, and everyone's gonna have a different opinion on that, but I'm not a big fan of icing it. I would rather you just let it heal and rest, and like sleep and eat, and then do any exercise that doesn't bother it. That's literally it. That's my go-to on that front. Obviously eating whole minimally processed foods is fantastic, like lots of fruits and berries, I think are great for a number of different reasons, but keep everything normal. Just don't do anything that hurts it. That's really it. And the cool part is when you look into the research that if you look in there, especially around tennis elbow, these things tend to heal themselves over time, over about four to six weeks, regardless of the training regimen that is used. So the common denominator is just not continuing to aggravate it. People are like, what exercises can I do to help heal it? What can I do to help heal it? The major thing is just don't aggravate it. That's really it regardless of the intervention that is used, just don't aggravate it. That's really it. Give it time to heal. If you keep aggravating, how the fuck is it gonna heal? - She goes on with the second question and says, second, regarding flexibility, do you need to do a warm up for stretching to either prevent injury or improve outcomes from stretching? Thanks much. I see has changed my life. And at 43, stronger, leaner than ever, also helped me overcome years of restrictive eating and over exercising. The tendencies love the podcast too. - That's awesome. I love that. Thank you so much for saying that and a huge, huge congrats on all of your progress. And again, thank you for being a member. It means everything to me and my family. So thank you for the support. It's a great question and it depends on the type of stretching you're doing. So there are, man, I've gotten so, so, so, like down the rabbit hole of the stretching and mobility. Like I'm really into it. It's just, I'm really enjoying it. Actually, you know, so I'll show you, it's funny. I'll, no one's gonna be able to see this because this isn't a video podcast. Tony will be able to see it, but we'll be able to describe it. It's funny 'cause Susan is here right now. We're working on the inner circle and she was watching me do some of my mobility work yesterday. And I'm gonna show you this video just really quick. Like look at the intensity, Tony, of this video. And so basically for everyone watching, what I'm doing is I'm sitting on a box and I'm holding a barbell in the crook of my elbow and my legs are, yeah, holding in a zercher position exactly. My legs are straight out and I'm sitting on a box and I'm essentially doing a seated good morning but holding the bar in the crook of my elbow so it's in a zercher position. And your toes are pointed up, your heels are planted in the ground. So it's like more than 90 degrees almost. Yes. And the intensity on my face is, fuck it. Like I'm, I'm not comfortable at all. Like, and all I did is six reps. So six reps of these seated good mornings with essentially like what you could imagine me sitting and trying to do like straddle my legs out as wide as possible with my legs straight and then bending forward and trying to get as much range as I can. So that's what I was doing there. And here's actually, here's another one where I'm lying on the ground in my feet are in the air and I have a kettlebell on each foot and I'm essentially doing a weighted split where I'm literally lying on my back. My legs are up and I open my legs into a split but the kettlebells on my feet are acting as a weight. So I have to resist it on the weight down on the way down and then hold it isometrically at the very bottom and then bring the weights back up. So it's like doing a fly, but with my legs, right? Is that terrifying at the bottom where you've got the weight pushing you down in the split and you're like, oh my God, am I gonna be able to? Yeah, it's definitely not, it's definitely not not terrifying. That's for sure. But each kettlebell is 26 pounds with my legs completely straight. So like that was a personal record for me yesterday but I talk about this and explain this because it depends on the type of stretching that you're doing. There are some types of stretching that are a little bit lower intensity, not even a little bit. They are significantly lower intensity that I would say those types of stretching actually count as a warmup for more intense types of stretching, right? So what's interesting about what I'm doing in stretching right now is it's really dependent on my goals. My goals right now are side split, front split and pancake split, those are my goals. And so when we're talking about about maximal strength development, squats, deadlifts, bench press, chin ups, those are the things you do first in your program. You do them at the beginning 'cause you don't wanna do them when you're fatigued, right? So you first do the exercise you want to improve. And then after that you actually reduce your intensity throughout the remainder of the workout and maybe go a little bit lower weight, higher repetition. Flexibility training is the exact opposite. You flip it. So you start with the lower intensity work and you build up to the most high intensity because through that lower intensity work you increase your range of motion. It all sort of counts as a warmup preparing yourself for that highest intensity biggest range of motion drill or technique at the very end of your session. Which by the way is a separate conversation. It's super difficult 'cause the whole session is just getting harder and harder and harder and harder. It's building up to a way more difficult movement. But either way, I say this because yes, if you are doing a type of stretching that eventually gets very intense, which for whatever it's worth, this is what we have in the new mobility programs that as of recording this, it hasn't launched yet. But by the time it's published, they'll be launched. You'll notice in these mobility programs in the inner circle they start off with lower intensity mobilizations and stretches and build up to higher intensity mobilizations and stretches. So yes, you should do a warmup but in a great stretching protocol, the warmup is already included. The warmup is part of the actual program is what I should say. So the first couple drills you'll do, like for example, the first drill that I did yesterday, the very first movement I did, it was just side to side lateral squats. So basically a lateral lunge type movement but for 60 seconds straight, body weight, nothing crazy, just side to side warming up. Then I did a pigeon stretch, right? And so I just held that for 90 seconds. It's a great for your glutes, it's a stretch for your glutes. We have it in the inner circle if you wanna look in the exercise database. So I did side to side lateral squats, then I went to pigeon and I just progressed from there. But the first two exercises were light mobilizations just to warm my body up and start getting into a bigger range of motion. So it's a long round about answer but yes, you should warm up but a good flexibility program includes that warmup as part of the program. - Yeah, the thing that strikes me is it depends on the goal. Like if your goal is to improve your bench press, you might pick a different exercise order, your warmup might be different and more catered to that. Whereas if your goal is the splits, that's a totally different sequence, right? - Correct. So I mean, those are two entirely different goals. And the cool part is you could chase those goals simultaneously. And so for example, with the mobility programs that we have, these mobility programs for the inner circle, they're like 15 minutes long a few times a week. And so we designed them to do them in conjunction with the strength programs. It's not one or the other. So you can either do them on the same day of strength or you could do them on your rest day, but you can do them simultaneously, especially because they're very, very brief. They're only 15 minutes. And as you get used to them, maybe it'll go down to like 10 to 12 minutes. But you can chase both simultaneously. I think it is a little bit more difficult. And if you don't have as much time, then it's probably best to focus just on one. But everything is goal dependent. Your goal determines the methods that you're going to use. So absolutely. If your main goal is increasing your bench press, then it's probably better to focus on either slightly improving or maintaining your flexibility. But if your main goal is improving your flexibility and mobility, then maybe your bench press just should be focused on maintain air, slowly, slowly improving, but nowhere near as rapid as if that was your main goal. - So one thing that was interesting to me was you, mentioned three mobility goals. They were all different types of splits. Are these movements that are complementary to each other? Like is working on one healthy other? Or are you training for three, like very distinct goals simultaneously? - It's a little bit of both, right? So there are three very distinct goals. Like so, for example, in the front split, the two major factors are the hamstring mobility. Obviously in the front leg and the hip flexor mobility or flexibility in the back leg. Those are the two main things. There are obviously other things at play here, but for a front split, hamstring mobility or flexibility, and then hip flexor mobility, flexibility. For a side split, obviously the hamstrings are a factor here, but also it's the adductors play a major role here. And not only just the adductor length, but also the strength of your glutes in order to pull your legs apart. So but adductor length is the major limiting factor in terms of mobility, flexibility. So we have adductors for the side splits, hip flexors, and hamstrings for the front split. And the pancake split is all of that plus your lower back. And that for me is my biggest limitation. Have you ever like sat down on the floor, spread your legs open and then tried to like reach forward? - Mm-hmm, sure. - And you know how like your lower back just rounds like a motherfucker? It's just, it's, it's, it rounds like-- - It always feels like you should be able to do it way better than you can, or at least not him. - Yes, yay, a hundred percent. So that lower back is, that's the hardest part for me and I think for the vast majority of people. So they all play into each other and they also all have very unique and distinct differences that make them challenging that the other one won't help with, if that makes sense. - So is there a trade-off for you going for all three at once or do you feel like with mobility or in this specific case, it's, it's hunky-dory? - You know, for me, I think it's better than I'm doing all three at once because I'll give you, I'll tell you why. I have one day per week devoted to each goal. So one day for front split, one day for middle split, one day for pancake. When I get focused on a goal, I just, I'm very obsessive with it. And my main goal, and my main goal was and still is the side splits, the middle splits. But when I first tried doing it, I only did the side splits, like that's all I did. I didn't care about the front split or the pancake split. And because I only had the side splits, I trained that three times a week and I ended up injuring my knee. And I think it was because I went so hard and just focused on that one that it put too much stress on my medial aspect of my knee. And I ended up really hurting it for like six months. Whereas now, because I'm focusing on all of them, it's more difficult for me to over train. It's more difficult for me to put as much stress on my knee because I have other things I need to train in order to achieve the other ones. It's also been cool because even though my main goal is the middle or side splits, I'm the closest to my front split now. My front split is like almost there. My middle splits still have a way to go. My pancake split has a long way to go. But I think that by establishing these other goals, it's actually helped me prevent injury because I'm not over training. - Yeah, cool. That makes sense. - And as long as I can prevent injury, then I can keep training and have better longevity. So well, I think that I might be able to achieve the middle split potentially faster if I just focused on one. I don't know how many injuries I would accrue. Well, I don't know if I would, but I think that this is probably a safer route to go. It's a more balanced route for sure. - Awesome, man. - Well, Tony, I feel like this was a good podcast. What do you think? - I think so too. I think you encouraged me to step up a little more. So I'll be expounding on my love for greens powders more often and more deeply. So thank you for the push. - Do you take greens powders? - I don't have them right now, but I'll get them every once in a while. - Stop it, stop it. - Every time now, I'm just like, I'm just pissing money away. I don't know. - As long as you know it. - It's like I need that greens, man. - And you just decide not to eat vegetables and instead to get this greens powder, that gives you like none of the benefits of actually. Which ones do you get? - If you tell me you get AG1, I'm gonna fucking lose it. - No, I was gonna try that next. - No, I've gotten Legion and then a long time ago on it had one that I had tried. - Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. - And then there's this other brand that I'm forgetting that my buddy told me to try, but I'm blanking on the name. - Do you feel better when you take them? - I think placebo effect is real. I think it's not even just placebo effect. It's like, oh, I'm doing something for my health right now. Like I feel good about that. - I'm the pinnacle of health. I'm taking these powdered greens. - Oh man. - No, but no, I know deep down that it's, you know, it is what it is. But it's like, I look at it like it's a multivitamin, you know? - Do you take a multivitamin? - Yeah. - So you take a multivitamin and the greens? - Well, I'm very inconsistent as you can tell. So sometimes I'm taking like a multivitamin and fish oil and then sometimes I have greens, but like I feel like I should have something. Bro, just do the multi. - Yeah. - Like just take the multi. Don't waste your time and money. Your hard earned money on greens. Just take the multi. - Yeah. - Seriously. (laughs) Dig the multi and then have a salad. - So you know, I brought this up mostly to just make a joke. - I know, but then I got actually curious. (laughs) And then I was hoping you were gonna be like angry. And then I got like, oh my God. 'Cause I thought you were gonna be like, no, of course I don't have greens, but you were like sometimes. (laughs) - Sometimes I'll have. - When was the last time you got greens? - That's been a few months probably. - Months? - Yeah. - I was hoping years. - Yeah. You're like, why aren't you listening to me, man? (laughs) - Oh man, just get the, get legions, yeah, get legions, multivitamin. Just do their multivitamin. - Yeah. - I love legion. I take their multivitamin. - I got their fish oil. It looks pretty good. - Their fish oil is amazing. The fish oil is, in my opinion, the best in the industry in terms of the quality, in terms of the ratio that they have like, their fish oil is phenomenal. I've tried their greens because I feel like I should try stuff before I just talk about it. And it's disgusting. Like, dude, did you enjoy it? When you drink, tell me honestly, did you actually enjoy drinking it? - So whenever I've had greens like just, you know, with water, you look so disgusted by it. For those of you who can't see, he's like sighing and like holding his head, like just looking down with worry, like my wayward son. But yeah, no, but like in a smoothie, where there's like milk and there's, you know, banana and there's protein powder and like little greens powder gives it, yeah, I think it, I think it actually kind of tastes good. - I never, I never tried that. I never tried putting in a smoothie. - Oh yeah, no, don't, I just would, I just put it in water and I like almost, I felt worse. I felt like I felt worse after drinking it. For every time, dude, look what I have right here. - What? The age you want? - I have, dude, when I say I like, I don't just say shit to say shit. Like I, if I'm gonna give my opinion, that's why we're doing this fucking, my wife and I are doing this whole thing on like the frozen food preparation stuff, like the meal companies. I don't just give my opinion on something without trying it. And like in case you didn't, anyone didn't notice, like I have age you want right next to me. Like I've tried everything that I talk about. That's why I did the carnivore diet and made a YouTube video and like I wanted to try it. Like I feel like, yeah, you can know a lot about something just by understanding the research, but you know a lot more by actually trying it and by actually doing it. - So here's the thing about like supplements and stuff. It's like, how do you know though? Like I feel like the only way that I know what to get is based on listening to people like you on like what's worth the money and what's not, right? - Yeah. - But like if just trying greens, like what can you learn from that other than like how it tastes, you know? - So I personally am like, I like to look at the packaging. I like to look at the marketing. I like to look at how they send it to you. I like to look at, 'cause it's an experience when you get AG1. They sell you on the experience, right? Like, you know what I mean? They really do. And that's one of the reasons why it's so expensive is, you know, it's the packaging and it's the, it's making you feel like you're an elite, healthy individual. That's what, they're so good at it. Like they're very, very good at it. It's getting you in the mindset of like, I'm in, that's why they rebranded themselves. AG1, I would imagine, it's, it was athletic greens for many, many years and they just rebranded to AG1. I would imagine they did market research and they did focus groups to figure out like what, I don't know, I would imagine, I don't know, this is like, this is, it's a legend, but I'm like, it's an insanely successful company from the perspective of how much money they bring in. I would imagine that's, this is all very deliberate. The packaging looks amazing, the font looks amazing and it looks like a healthy font. Like there's something called in the research called a health halo where based on the packaging and the coloring and the font style and the names, it makes you think that it's healthy just based on how it looks. That's why you go into certain grocery stores and people will think if something has brown packaging that it's healthier for them than if it has like colorful packaging because it looks more organic, right? It's like, it's, it's called the health halo, it exists. It's fucking real. So I like to go through the whole experience and then yeah, I can get the taste as well and all of that which I haven't had a single greens powder where I was like, I've never felt good while I'm drinking it and I, yeah, I've never tried to get in a smoothie, like, like a good smoothie. I would rather, but I would rather, and I'll do it. I'll try in this movie, but what I would rather is just take a big fucking bag of spinach and put that in this movie. So in my defense, this is spinach and blueberry. Dude, that's perfect. Do that, that's better to do that. Take a multivitamin, fuck it. Like, you're good, you're good. You're good. Put the spinach in your fucking smoothie like you do. Take a multivitamin and don't, don't waste your hard money, your hard earned money on fucking greens. - This is like the Tony intervention episode. - Yeah, dude, it is. I, when I ask you that, I, I didn't expect you to say that sometimes you get greens, it's more of like, well, of course I don't get greens, Jordan. And you're like, yeah, I do. - What am I, a loser? - Oh my gosh. - Ugh, well, thank you everyone for listening. If anyone is getting greens powders, I'm gonna lose my shit. If you could leave a five star review, it would mean the world to us. If you could leave a written review, it would mean even more to us. If you wanna join the inner circle, the link is in the show notes. If you wanna get those mobility programs, they are live and thank you for your support. Thank you so much, please DM Tony any questions you have and tell him to stop buying the greens, 'cause his hard earned money deserves to go elsewhere. Have a wonderful week and we'll talk to you soon. 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