(upbeat music) - Good luck Central in the Kintec Studio, hour number two of the program. More reporting on Tyler Tofoli and his potential whereabouts after the trade deadline is done and dusted. Emily Kaplan was just on ESPN and she did link the reunion with the LA Kings. So a little bit of maybe conflicting reporting, but now that Jake Gensl is going to the Carolina Hurricanes, we expect going to the Carolina Hurricanes, teams that missed out on Gensl might shift their focus to Tyler Tofoli. Let's bring in our next guest. It is Greg Wuchinsky of ESPN. Thanks for this wish. The biggest fish is off the market ahead of the trade deadline day. So it's just another year in the NHL's trade deadline sweepstakes. - Yeah, well, the new wrinkle is that now we find out where they're going and then it takes like four hours to figure out what they're going for. Like that's the deadline for me so far. I spent most of my day yesterday confirming a trade and then waiting in a trinity to find out what the conditions on a pick are or what other team is involved to pick up salary. And tonight it's a different deal. Tonight they're just waiting for the hurricanes and penguins to get done with their games before they can hop on a trade call. But still the waiting game has defined the deadline so far. - Yeah, it was funny. We heard early yesterday that Mira Manov was going to be a piece going to Calgary and then lo and behold, that was the only name that went to Calgary. It was just about to fix after that. I was a little bit surprised, but let's focus on this one here. - I know we don't know the full details yet, but Carolina bending what we've seen their strategy be over the last number of years to actually go out and acquire a rental. - Well, do we know he's a rental is the first question. I mean, the idea that maybe he could extend with them, I think is something that's on the table and something that we're not privy to yet. But you're right, I mean, essentially if it is a rental, it's not something that they've done. And I would point out that they've also not done things like play for a family cup. So like maybe they're connected. Genssel and the player that basically feels like he was created in a lab for the hurricanes. He passes the analytics test. He's a guy that can drive play. Obviously that's a big thing for that front office. You know, they wanted to go for some help on the wing versus up the middle. And most importantly, as it's been pointed out by a lot of people, the hurricanes have been a team that has an inability to get that one goal that they need in a playoff series to put themselves over the top. You think about the Panther series last year and all those overtime games and things like that. I mean, Jake Genssel is a point-per-game guy in the playoffs. He's got I think like 34 goals in his career with the Penguins in the playoffs. And you know, obviously, he has a Stanley Cup ring to go along with it. So you think of everything they need and you think of everything that he is. And it's just an ideal fit, I think, between team and player at the deadline. The question I have about the Pittsburgh Penguins is what are they actually doing? And like, what is their plan long-term? Now, we don't know, you know, the pick and the prospect. And maybe that's all worth it and everything. But, you know, they spent all that money this past off season on all the players that we know who they sign, Braves, you know, go through list of players that they added. And a lot of them have struggled. Now you're adding another two years on top of that to Michael Bunting's contract on top of everything else you have. And he's a guy that's okay, but not really this massive driver for you. So I'm just not quite sure what the end game here is for Pittsburgh with their current core. Well, I mean, you know, keep in mind with Bunting, the most important thing is his history. You've kind of do this. Yeah. That's obviously the most important thing. It's a great question. Dubas had a press conference a couple of weeks ago where he tried to kind of spell out where he felt the team was at this point and said, you know, they need to get younger. That's really the modus operandi right now. And then when they get younger and maybe that youth can surround the veteran core and you end up with something, but he has to kind of thread the needle. And, you know, when he was hired, it was different than when Ron Hexdall was hired there in the sense of Hexdall was hired to build a winner around the veteran core. Dubas was hired to do the best he could to win with the veteran core, but also keep an eye towards what the next iteration of this franchise is going to look like. And so we all expect a return on this to kind of speak to those things. Spunching help now, you know, gives them at least something to replace the offense that leaves with Genssel. And then everything else is probably going to point towards, you know, the future of it. And that's kind of the balancing act he's trying to strike. I was racking my brain trying to, trying to remember if there was ever a team that threaded the needle like that, you know, like retooled on the fly, was able to go with a youth movement while also servicing a veteran core. And I couldn't come up with anything. I don't know if you guys know it, just do it. But what he's trying is a rarity in this league. - The only team to me is the Boston Bruins that were able to kind of transition their core, but they maintain a lot of those guys, right? Up until where they are now in Bergeron retiring. - No, I think that's true. But I think what's lacking for the Penguins is sort of the continuation from one generation to another. Like one of the reasons the Boston Bruins have been as successful as they've been in the last decade is that, you know, Bergeron taught Marchand, who then taught, you know, coil and pastranac. And, you know, Chara was a guy that they would stick every young defenseman with to learn from, whether it's McAvoy or Carlo or whomever. And so you had that kind of, you know, torch passing that was going on from year to year. And with the Penguins, it's more like, you've got to find those young guys, you know, and bring them into the thing. And that's really the trick right now. - It's funny in just two years of the Jim Rutherford experience, we've started to come to just expect when the Canucks get linked with a player and it seems they're being pretty aggressive on them. They're just going to get that player. And now Jake Genssel has kind of dispelled that theory. What do you see the Canucks doing from here? They've already made the one big acquisition. They've kind of been in on everything. Do you expect or do you think they should continue to be aggressive? - Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, the obvious they should be aggressive. I mean, I think this is a team that's still has designs on making a cup run this year. And there are still players out there that can help that end. I mean, you know, what's going to happen now for the Canucks and a lot of teams that we're hoping to try to reel in, Genssel is looking towards someone like Tyler Tofoli who was held out by the Devils tonight and looking for guys like Justin Zooker who was held out by the Coyotes tonight. I mean, there are guys in the wing that can still help your team. And Tofoli is the one that I think is the most interesting. I mean, they obviously know him pretty well and he's the double leading goal scorer. You know, he's been a playoff veteran, not necessarily the performer that Genssel's been, but somebody who knows his way around the postseason. So I think for the Canucks, for Vegas, maybe Colorado, maybe Florida, like these are the teams that were in the Genssel hunt that I think will probably turn their attention out of those two wingers. - And as far as, you know, how Vancouver stacks up against teams like, you know, the Vegas Golden Knights, even look at the Colorado Avalanche, is there anything they can do outside adding to Foli that puts them truly in that class? Or is it more about, you just kind of hope that once you get into the playoffs, you find a way to beat a team like that. 'Cause I'm not sure you can quite answer some of those moves and some of that high end power they already have anyways. - Well, that and also, you know, the experience deficit. I mean, you got a lot of teams in this conference that have played together for a long time and have been through it together. You know, like Vegas, obviously, Colorado, Edmonton. You know, I was talking to somebody the other day about the Canucks and the playoffs. And they kind of, they kind of thought, put the idea that, put forth the idea that maybe they're going to be like the doubles last year where the doubles come into the playoffs. They maybe take it on the chin at first and they kind of figure things out. And then off they go until they run into a Carolina team that really knows how to do this thing in the playoffs. And I think my concern for Vancouver is drawing Vegas in the first round or something like that, or drawing the Kings and then having these savvy veteran players that know how to do the things you have to do in the playoffs in order to succeed, be able to, you know, win a series against Vancouver that's still trying to kind of figure it out. So again, this is all your on paper theorizing of how things could work out. 'Cause it could easily go the other way, which is the Canucks are a buzz-saw and they're playing so well going into the playoffs that they don't care about the fact they don't have a Drew Dowdy out there or they don't have a Nathan McKinnon out there. - It's, you know, the way Rick Tockett has kind of coached this team from day one is like, this is how you have to play in the playoffs. So this is how we're going to play during the regular season. And the Canucks were like at such a rock bottom point when he took over, it just felt like every player bought in from day one. And all they've done is have success. I mean, what, they've won 60 games in the 100 games he's coached with the Vancouver Canucks. That even goes back to last year when he had some pretty ugly rosters towards the end of last season. So, you know, I think they are more prepared than maybe some other rookie playoff teams might be. - I think so too. And it's not as if they don't have guys that have been through it. - Yeah. - I mean, JT Miller and the players like that. I mean, they obviously have them. You bring up their success and I find that to be interesting, it would be to be the playoffs in the sense of like, it's not always just like how you have to play and figuring out how you need to score. I mean, that's the kind of thing we always talk about with the Tampa Bay Lightning before they started winning cups about like, they'd lose in the conference final because they quote unquote, didn't know how to play. And then Cooper had to teach him. The real challenge for teams in the playoffs, ones that don't necessarily have the long playoff run experience like Vancouver doesn't, is how do you handle it when adversity hits? That's really the key. And I think how you handle it is you have a coach in Rick Talkett who can keep them even keeled that can keep them focused that can, you know, address the details and not have them freaking out if maybe things don't come as naturally in the playoffs that they do in the regular season. 'Cause that's really the trick for a team like Vancouver is that when it doesn't come naturally, when it doesn't come easily, how do you handle it in the playoffs? And I'm pretty confident they have the players and the coach to kind of see their way through that. The thing is like going through the Pacific Division bracket is going to be pretty tough, whether it's Edmonton or Vegas or the LA Kings, even who've started to find their game. The 131 trap is Jim Hiller is executing brilliantly lately. But Vegas is doing it again. And I know it's the debate that rages every year around this time on hockey Twitter. But, you know, they've found a way to fit in Hannafin and Manta and maybe even a little bit more ahead of tomorrow's deadline. They, if they do get stoned back around playoff time, like, I guess maybe we should expect given the last couple of years, how do we see this team? Are they the cup favorites once again? - First of all, let's not call it around playoff time. It would be playoff time. Okay, he is not playing in game E2. We all know he's not playing in game E2. We already saw the movie last year. - Yeah. - Yeah, I mean, you know, listen, when you're top four is Petriangelo, Theodore Hannafin and Martinez, you're doing pretty well for yourself. They're pretty formidable quartet to be able to play, you know, more than two thirds of the game. They're good, they're real good. And again, why they're good is that they have this incredible attention to detail, you know, Bruce Cassidy really did transform the Manta defensive team and it's kind of carried over into this season. They know how to play, they know how to win. They are tough and only getting tougher and bigger. They're a very, very tough out. And I think a lot of us sort of wrote them off before the season. They weren't a glamor pick. You know, we were all hopping on Edmonton's bandwagon in other places when in actuality, you know, the Golden Knights bring back most of the people that are on that team, minus like Riley Smith. And the one, you know, question mark that we had about their goal tending for the most part has been answered by the Wade and Hill is played. Although he's had some, you know, problems staying healthy and, you know, there's been a little bit of a wobble in their goal tending lately, but they're still, I mean, are they the team to beat? I don't know because Colorado muscled up. Dallas has been maybe as good or as Vancouver in some ways during the regular season. You know, we're not even talking about the Jets. It's, you're absolutely right. It's an absolute meat grinder for whoever you want to play in the first round. Even Nashville might be a tough out. - When I also think what it shows is the type of mentality you have to have as a front office in the Western Conference and especially with what they're doing in Colorado, what they're doing in Vegas and of course, the Canucks have shown they're not afraid of making deals, but those teams right now have a different level of bold that they're willing to go to. And I think that's what you kind of have to do as a front office if you want to hang with these teams is you have to be willing to be very bold. - It's an arms race. I mean, you know, it started with the Linholm trade and then we saw Monahan and then we saw, you know, Middlestad and Tannos and it just goes on and on the amount of deals that all these guys were making to the play where even Nashville was a buyer today, like it is really remarkable. But, you know, to go back to Vegas, I know we all have our opinions about the way that they get their way around the cap. I think if you have a cap, you should applaud teams that find ways to get around it and don't get caught because I'm not really a salary cap guy to begin with. But the other thing they do is they manage to get these deals done without really having a treasure trove of prospects and picks. You know what I mean? - Yeah. - Like the Hanifen deal, and by the way, I think that Craig Conroy's done an awful job for Calgary and some of these trades that he's made in recent weeks, the Linholm trade I thought was all right and it's a bully trade was really good, but the other two, not so great. They managed to make the Hanifen deal while still having the ability to trade their first round pick this year or next year. Like that's nuts to be able to uphold that rabbit out of their hats and yet they did. So it's not simply just the bad luck/good fortune of being able to put guys on long-term as you'd reserve. It's also the way that they're able to kind of maneuver and make these deals. They're very short operators. - Yeah, it's, you know, and I think the league has kind of been in such a, I don't know if Stasis is the right word, but there hasn't been a lot of movement, player movement trades in the last couple of years, really since the flat cap. And then Jim Rutherford showed up in Vancouver and was like, oh look, a team can make trades, but you've seen it with Colorado and even Vegas. Like they, like the general managers that are bold and find ways to get deals done are seemingly rewarded by some of the success that they've had. - Yeah, and look, there's always gonna be cautionary tales. I mean, the year before Florida made their run to the cup final, they went all in on, you know, Ben Shurat, and to a better extent, Clodgeroo, and that didn't really get him anything. But there's always gonna be teams that take these swings and it doesn't work out. But, you know, I've always been of the mind that, you know, if you feel like you've got holes in your lineup and you think that they're a waste around you yet, pay the price. I mean, unless you're a team with a core of guys that are in their 20, their early 20s, like you have a finite window to win a cup sometimes. And that's why despite, I mean, I don't know what we're getting, what they're getting return-wise, Pittsburgh from Carolina, but damn, if I didn't think the hurricane should make that trade, like 10 out of 10 times because you the guy they've needed. And this could be the year that they finally breakthrough. - So we've seen a lot of the big teams in the West already make moves and they'll probably do some more or two by the time it's over. Is there a team you're keeping a close eye on here, the rest of the way that you think could really, you know, steal the show between now and tomorrow's deadline? - Well, I'm curious what the Rangers do because they were very much down the road on Gensl. He wasn't really a perfect fit for their lineup, to be honest with you as a left wing, but he was certainly somebody that they, you know, they could have used to get over the top. Now I wonder what they do, like Blake Wheeler got hurt. He's done for the season. They're still looking for a top line right wing. You know, is it Frank Fettrano? Do we broker the unspoken of deal between the devils and the Rangers to get to folate in New York? I don't know. But they're gonna have to do something and what they do could really dictate a lot of their success or failure in the postseason. - What one last one for you actually, Wish? Do you think Pavel Butch Nevich moves? Because in all of the Gensl sort of hype, he's kind of flown under the radar a little bit as a top end options for teams to look at, who's not only signed for this year, but also next? - I think he will. You know, Doug Armstrong tends to play things close to the vest and also tends to try to like, keep hope alive when it comes to their proceeds and prospects, but he's also a realist. And the fact of the matter is, if he's not in their plans beyond next season, we should definitely trade him now. I mean, to get him through the rest of this season and one more year is invaluable. And so then when you start to think about what the cost of acquisition would be and what a team like Vegas currently has maybe offer up is where you start to think that might be a fit. I've long thought that he could be a fit Vegas. I think he'd fit really well there. But there certainly will be other teams that are better in the market for him. He's one of the better wingers that could be available. A point-per-game guy when he's on his game. And, you know, if the blues continue to flounder, which it looks like you're doing again tonight, I don't know how you don't start to really explore, moving in. - Wish, appreciate the time. No, it's a busy time for all of us. And good luck with the deadline tomorrow. - Anytime, thanks for it. - There he is. Greg Wuchinsky, senior writer, ESPN, joining us here on Canucks Central. And that's kind of a theme here. Seeing Colorado and Vegas load up and who knows what else Vegas does, but. - Teams getting rewarded for being bold. I think Vancouver has had that success as well since Jim Rutherford and Patrick Levine came in. - Yeah. - Now, yeah, there's also being bold, like making an Oliver Echman-Larson and Connor Garland acquisition. And Dylan Gunther is looking pretty great for the Arizona Coyotes, but. - There's always a fine line between bold and reckless. - Yes. (laughs) - And I think that's kind of where it's at, right? - Yeah, it's a great way to put it. - Which side was too many wrong? (laughs) - Yeah, yeah, no kidding. But so I think that's kind of a part of it too. And I would say, what do you think the tenor of, would be in this market? Had the Canucks pulled off the Lindholm trade today or last night? 'Cause right now I'm seeing a lot of people text in and says, as much as I trust the regime's vision, I hate to say I'll be disappointed. I have to say I'll be, I'll be disappointed if the Canucks don't do anything of a note by tomorrow. Feels like the field in the West is significantly upgraded and I worry the Canucks won't be able to keep up. I mean, fair, but would the vibe be different? If the Canucks have the same record they had now and then acquired Lindholm, 'cause the Canucks haven't been better with Lindholm record wise, right? - No. - But let's say the acquired Lindholm had the same record right now. - Vibes would probably be different. - Very different. And I think it's hard. - They're gonna get better. - Yeah. And I think emotionally it's hard for you to feel that way because it's still in the moment you're like, you're hoping somebody's gonna make a trade, you're looked at Genssel and you daydreamed that of Genssel playing on Pettersson's winning. Now it's not happening, that's a disappointment. You see other teams doing things and it makes that golf seem so much wider now and bigger. But I would say, I mean, the Canucks made their big deadline acquisition already. - Yep. - They got ahead of it. - Yep. - If they made that trade today, everyone's talking differently. Like, look at Vancouver, like a Colorado, look at Vegas, look at these teams, what they're doing and everything. And it's like, so I think, and again, Vancouver will do more stuff. But the context of how these 15 games with Lindholm sort of tells that story a little bit too though, right? Not only has he not had success, but you imagined, we imagined, and what the first look was, Lindholm's gonna play with Pettersson. And he's gonna play on Pettersson's wing and it's gonna be great. And it hasn't worked. - Yeah. - Lindholm hasn't acclimated well to playing on the wing and Tock it likes him so much down the middle that he's like, I wanna play this guy at center. - Well, he's better than any other option you have beside Pettersson and Miller. - And we're gonna have one of the strongest spines in the league. We'll be able to plug and play wingers with these guys and be able to keep games tight because we've got three, four wingers or four centermen that play the game the right way, both ends of the ice. And that's how we're gonna have more success as a hockey team. So it hasn't played out the way, I think that anybody sort of envisioned, but Rick Tockett has decided how he thinks is the best way to set up this team. - For sure. And like he has had his struggles, but I think everyone's also assuming as soon as all these trades have made all these guys are gonna flourish. It's like, you know, little sats gonna go to Colorado and pop up, right? And if it's gonna go and be a top pairing defense man, math is gonna go and be a power forward, right? There will be some uneasiness too, you know? Like often how often do we see big trade happen? - Yeah. - And then it's uncomfortable figuring that out. It's awkward. It doesn't lose a little bit. It doesn't always work out. Like it takes time, you know? Like I think there's a sum to all these trades are gonna work out all the time. It's like it takes time for these things to, you know, happen and work out. And I think, you know, that patience, I don't think is there right now to let it play out a little bit. - I think for guys like Manta and Casey Middlestadt to a certain extent, like going from big pressure, like going from no pressure situations to pressure situations, it changes the equation entirely. - Yeah, somebody texted and said, I fully expect they all will pop off on their new teams. The Canucks are cursed. Well, I mean, if that's your mentality, the Canucks are cursed. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what they do, right? If they got Gensil, somehow he get hurt. I mean, if your mentality is the Canucks are cursed, there's nothing they can do until somehow, some way you are convinced that curse has been lifted. And let me guess, the only way that curse is gonna be lifted is winning is down the cup, right? - Yes. - So if you don't want to stay on the cup. - If they get a cup to put in the cup holders. - Man, that's a high bar. That's a high bar. - It is pretty high bar. - How to put in the cup holders. - They gotta get a cup to put in the cup holders. - That's why they're getting the cup holders. - To get a cup to, yes. - Or the chest, man. - It's the logical explanation. Yeah, like, yeah, if you do think the Canucks are cursed, I mean, sure. What are you gonna do? - Then what are you gonna do, right? What's the point? - Just pack it up the bomb. - Why are you gonna get out for it? You know, like, well, you're never gonna win. - I didn't even remember Rutherford, Rutherford when we talked to him some weeks back and we brought up the example of his Carolina Hurricanes team that won the cup in '06. And he's like, yeah, well, there were a couple of teams that I wasn't sure we were gonna beat. We went out and got Doug Wade, we went out and got Mark Recky. But man, I wasn't sure if we could beat Detroit. I wasn't sure if we beat Ottawa. Well, those teams got bounced. So the point being, you have to give yourself a chance, even if you're not the one or two top teams, you get there, you have a chance. Who knows how things align? Maybe you need some help along the way, sure. But show me a couple of people who did not get a little bit of help along the way. It's Dan Reicho, Satyar Shah coming up. We're gonna get ready for the Canucks and Vegas Golden Knights, the pre-pre-game show. Canucks get the first look at Anthony Manta and Noah Hanafin in Golden Knights Colors. Pre-pre-game show we'll hear from Rick Tockett and more on Canucks Central. - Big opinions and good bets. It's the People Show with Big Nizar. - Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. (dramatic music)
