(upbeat music) Back in on Canuck Central, we're in the Kintec Studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Goober review. Sorefeet, what are you waiting for? Canuck Central is for enzyme-Pacific Vancouver's premier Chrysler, Dodd-Ramm, and Jeep Superstore on second avenue between Canbe and Maine, or at enzyme-Pacific-Crysler.ca. Lot's still to get to, still waiting on details of the Noa Hanif and trade as he is headed to the Vegas Golden Knights from the Calgary Flames, but we know the deal is done, just still awaiting the particulars of what is heading where and who is heading where and what Calgary is getting in return. We now go to the hotline. It's brought to you by Dispatch Plumbing, Heating and Air Conditioning. The first call, the only call in joining us is Kevin Woodley, a presentation of White Rock Hyundai. Thanks for this Woodley, how are you? - I'm good, I'm just trying to figure out whether I need to jump back in the way Rock Hyundai and rely on my EV status to get me down to Roger's Arena with only one late. Like, that's what happened last time, right? Only got there 'cause I had EV status, so I'm thankful for that. I'm at the madness of trade deadline and very short notice press conference. - So what I do know is I feel like, if nothing else, the White Rock Hyundai, the Hyundai can, it can break down the LA Kings 1314mation through the neutral zone, that's what I do now. - Oh, she's zippy, she's zippy. No worries, she would just dart in and out of everything. They got a lot of pickup these that leave you, they're quite fantastic, I gotta say. - So with that, like, we're all watching the LA Kings and they didn't play that way as much last Thursday, they still played a pretty boring style here at Roger's Arena as well, but last night it seemed to take it to another level. Is that just what Jim Hiller feels like he has to do with the team not having maybe as good a goaltender as most of their opponents have? - Yeah, but they've been this way for two years, right? Like, I mean, this has been the focus, take care of your own end first. It's why they thought they could get by with the goal-turning they had because they didn't need, you don't need a Jacob Markstrom, like you do in Calgary where you're a bottom five, the team, you can be one of the best teams in the NHL, they have been for a couple of years now in terms of not giving up high-danger chances, and obviously the system is part of that, doesn't hurt when you got to no one, copa tower one, two down the middle, and the way they sort of stick with that system, then, you know, that's, it's what works for you, right? It's, or at least it has to a point. Obviously in the playoffs, when they started giving up power play, that's where, I mean, if you look at it, last year, even missing arbites them against Edmonton, it was the power play, and everything was basically 50% on the power play. At even strength, they were fine. So, I'm not saying whether or not this is the way to win a cop, but for the Los Angeles Kings, this has been a way of playing that, you know, seems to be somewhat, or you could argue, quite effective for them for the loss of the loss. - Well, and I thought the way the Canucks played outside of making some critical mistakes, is certain aspects of the game. They were really good in combating how the Kings played, 'cause when the Kings sit back the way they do, you can't try to create rush chances at a nothing. You can't force things into the middle when it is in there. You kind of have to just pick away Adam, the way the Canucks did. Did you like the way the Canucks were able to take over control of that game? What would you like to see better in terms of chance creation? What did you think of the way they played? - I mean, I don't know that you do take control of a game like that, and I would maybe argue a little bit whether they did. What I liked is that they ended up finding a way to not break their own structure for the most part, right? Like, this is a different conversation if Demco doesn't make that statement. Hey, you're allowed to have a great goaltender, but I think the fact they gave up that chance and then plump, we gave up another that left, you know, a wide open net and a post was hit. Like, those are the mistakes that have turned a tie game against Winnipeg into a 4-2 Winnipeg win in the third period, right, going in the third tie. Against LA, you know, when LA was here, obviously the Kings had a lead going into the third, but trying to force your way through their defensive structure just allowed them to widen it because they counter punch. I would argue in Colorado, close games against good teams with a defensive identity. They found a way to win one against Boston, but let's not forget, six on five in an overtime, just like the Oilers did in Boston the other night. But in some of these tighter, tougher games where they're not scoring five and eight, where they need to get by in a 2-1 or 3-2 win, we've seen that third period sturdiness that we saw when they were leading kind of break apart at times. And yeah, like you're gonna have mistakes, you're gonna give up scoring chances. It's part of the game, your goalie bails you out on some, you get a break out on another last night. But I think the fact that the break-down type of key times and they've created chances off the rush in the third period was a little concerning. There were moments where it was also concerning last night, but it didn't continue, right? Like you can't force things, you can't shove that round peg into a square hole against a team like the LA Kings. And I thought as the third period went on, there was a willingness to sort of just not try and open up and sort of take what you can get and try and create off a four check and do something like that. Those are all positive. It's like this team after winning by large margins earlier in the season, the margins are tighter now, whether it's the opponent, some of the injuries, all the power play not going like it was earlier, all of these factors at once, the margins are tighter. And in those tighter moments, as Rick Talkett meet pressure with pressure, we've seen them sort of fold in some of those key moments against really good teams, against Winnipeg, against the Kings here. And they didn't completely last night. The one asterisk being they got away with those two bad moments early in the third period. The fact they didn't completely disintegrate and they stuck with their game after those mistakes, those are positives. The mistakes themselves that they're still happening and I thought it was worth noting, I think Lindholm had already been moved to the wing on the Blugger line with Garland at that point. But I mean, the way they sort out that rush on the one that goes off the post or the outside of the post where Demko stranded is frankly baffling. I don't know if that's a center moving to wing, but both the fencemen end up over on the right side of the ice and Lindholm with a guy to his left wide open, pursues in the same direction as the defensemen. They both go to the same guy. So breakdowns like that in the playoffs can be the difference in a series. We saw a couple of them last night, but only a couple and they stopped the bleeding at that point. I think if they can continue in these tough games to learn these lessons, that becomes a positive heading into the playoffs 'cause the last thing you want to do is have to try and figure it out there. - Well, yeah, and that's playoff hockey, right? It's 1-1 midway through the third period and you're sort of just moving the game along until somebody makes the big mistake that turns into the go-ahead goal, right? And that's-- - Right, and too often lately, they've been the team that made that mistake against other good opponents, right? - Yeah, and that's the thing that Rick talk, it just keeps hammering home, right? You can't hit a home run on every shift. We can't be all in. And he talked about this a lot after last Thursday's loss to the Kings, where you had a bad pinch from Quinn Hughes. You had a bad pass through the defensive zone into coverage by Elias Patterson. You had a bad change from J.T. Miller. I mean, those are the things that plagued this team in the past that they've mostly cleaned up, but it seems like they're going through a period right now where they're working through it again. - Yeah, and I think the other thing too is defensively, like even with those breakdowns, they're still not, like even with those two, they gave up three high danger chances all night to the Kings and an expected goals of one and a half. - Yeah. - Right, now they only generated two expected themselves, including overtime, but even you look at the Anaheim game and I know much lesser opponent, but four high danger chances in 1.4 expected against against. And again, a bunch of those were sort of with the Ducks having the goalie pulled. Generated more than enough chances to win that game three to one just didn't, they ran into a bit of a, I would argue good goal tending at the other end. So some of the defense, as much as they have to learn how to play the third period against these types of teams, overall, and avoid those sort of momentary lapses that lead to free goals, frankly, which is probably what should have happened on the one that went off the side of the net, like yawning cage, right? If that's a right shot instead of a left shot, that's a free goal, and that's what they've been giving up too many. Other than those moments, like overall, they're five on five play, especially like they're not giving up much at all. And that is also an underlying profile that has throughout talk its time here and continues to bold well for the playoffs. It's just, do you stick with it when it's tight in the third period? You're trying for something, pinch down the wall, like Zidorov did to lead to the one, two on one. Are you able to stay patient or do you lose that patience and try and make something happen and open up the other way? - Let's get to the save. It's, I mean, we waited long enough, it's been, you know, 10 minutes into this conversation. Was that the save of the year? Thatcher, Demko, and Alex Turcotte. - Oh man, there's been some absolute dandy season. It's on the list, right? Like it's on the list. He's not fully extended, two on one. And if you watch where he starts on that two on one, like he honors Copitar shot the whole way. He's not cheating past, he's not even flattening out. Like he's square on Copitar, he doesn't flatten out his backside leg. He's edge of the crease, maybe even a little bit beyond to sort of get rotation, load that push and be able to get across it and watch, like going through the frame by frame, watch the eyes, watch a visual connection, watch the realization of the need to build vertical coverage over the pad. Like it's all there. This isn't just push, flop, and hope. It's funny. We ran a series of drills at anglemag.com last year with Ian Clark and Thatcher, Demko, and a little bit with Marco Torrhenius and Artur C-Lobs in habits for doing the same drills. It was called Hand and Support. And it was a series of drills from basics, right up to big complicated movements like that, where everything was about emphasizing that it's not enough to get a pad there, you have to have that hand in support. It's all about building that vertical coverage across the ice above the pad. And there are so many technical details that go into that, as much as it looks athletic and sensational, spectacular, all the deserved adverbs or adjectives that go with a save like that. The reality is this is practiced, it's purposeful. There's a reason some goalies come across on their belly and don't have the ability to build vertical coverage like that to get that hand in support. And the Canucks' goalies typically do because they practice and they work on it. And it was funny, I was reminded of that series of drills we have on the website after watching that save last night 'cause it goes part and upon, but hand in hand. - You know, and we've seen Demko take a lot of the starts, but he did get a little bit of a reprieve on Sunday. You mentioned how Canucks played really well defensively as a team, but it felt like Casey Dismith needed that bounce back performance after the way things had gone for him lately. - Yeah, he lately is only two starts, right? Like, you know, I ran the numbers, I had this discussion with Thomas Tranz up in the press box sorta coming off of that Minnesota loss. Like really, it was the Minnesota and the Detroit game where his numbers were under water. And obviously a night like he had in Minnesota will destroy your entire season statistically. When you're a backup that doesn't play much, you don't recover from that. Like, there's not enough games. There's not enough rope to sort of overcome a game like that. But as I remember saying to you guys a few days later, didn't give up a bad goal in the bunch, has still only given up two low percentage goals all season. The best numbers on that particular metric of anyone who's faced as many shots as he has. And his numbers from sort of early December up in two of those previous starts were actually top 15 in the league. So I wasn't overreacting to the Minnesota one or trying not to, but I'm with you at the same time. It felt even amongst the coaching staff like he needed that one in order to get more looks. And we all remember when he was at his best, all the surprise and questions about why were they playing him so often? Why were they starting him ahead of Demko? But that's when you got your best out of him. So if he earns a few more in short succession here, obviously with the next few you expect it to be Demko, but earns enough to get Demko's rest and maybe get a little bit of a rhythm and confidence himself that bodes well, both for resting Demko. And, you know, 'cause frankly it's gonna be tight. And with the Vegas trade you guys mentioned as you welcome me into the show, probably even more important to stay atop the Pacific Division and avoid the possibility of the Vegas Golden Knights in the first round. - One, and the other thing here too, is, you know, we mentioned a team playing a lot better and, you know, we know the team is looking to improve the Ford group and the Jake Genssel rumors are out there they're trying to have to forward. When you look at that blue line though, and you look at what Vegas might be doing here, getting Noah Hanifen, looks like that's gonna get done. Alec Martinez at some point will get healthy. That blue line's gonna look like an absolute terror to become the postseason. Do you think the Canucks' blue line, should they be, do you think exploring ways to make that even better should be a priority you think? Or, what do you make of what they have on the blue line mix right now? - Well, I mean, if you look at how they, how Rutherford and company won Cups in Pittsburgh, it was about sort of having a defense that was greater than the sum of its parts, so to speak, right? And part of that is system and buy-in and all the things we've talked a lot about and stock it got here. And if you look at who that like, to me, Sat, you'd have to move guys out to do that, right? Unless there's something we don't know about Myers' injury being more serious and nothing I understand would point in that direction. You know, I think they have the mix they have. I think with Myers back, you have the Doroff and Myers on your third pair, which, I mean, I know everybody loves Noah Jules and he's a great story and he's really come a long way this season. But like Jules and his Doroff right now are where a lot of the, you know, they're on the ice one, a lot of these breakdowns are happening. And when you're seeing a lot of these scoring chances against. And so does they get better with Myers? Is the guy on the other side of the ice a bigger part of the problem? I don't have the answer there. But if you're looking to make changes, you're obviously not upgrading the high end. You probably have to be moving one of those guys out. I don't think you make the acquisition and spend the capital you did to get Zidoroff to have him in the press boxes, your seven or your eight. And given the sort of more glaring need for wingers in the top six with some finish, I find it sort of as much as it's easy to look at Vegas and say, oh, we got to come. I don't know that you want to get into a defensive arm race with the Vegas Golden Knights. I think there's a, I think you've got enough here if you've got everyone else buying in. I just talked about how great they're underlying defensive numbers were all season. And that's with this blue line, even with some of the injuries to Susie who at this point is probably their third best defensive men and maybe their most important defenseman in terms of shot suppression. And they're just getting him back. So if you can create all these numbers defensively with the existing group, I find it hard to make the argument that that's where you need to upgrade even as you watch a team like Vegas load up on the back end. - Well, that's part of the other equation here for Vancouver. It seems like they're going to add something. They've looked at the top of the market as far as Jake Genssel and Tyler Tafoli. And also the, probably the bottom of the forward market too. But I guess my question here, Woodley is, do you want to get into the arms race with everybody else here in the West? You've already spent a pretty good amount of assets to get a lives Lindholm in here. How many, like do you want to save some bullets for the next couple of years, especially now that you've got Patterson done and dusted on a new deal? - Yeah, it's a fair question, Rach. Obviously the focus is on Patterson and that's solved, but how many of the other UFAs do you think you can bring back? Whether it's Dakota Joshua or Teddy Blooger. Like I think that's one of the things with Lindholm, right? Like we can all see what happens when Joshua's back. That's going to be a line again. There was just too much chemistry there to ignore. Unless all of a sudden it evaporates with Dakota Joshua's injury. That's your third line. And so if Lindholm's not centering your third line, and you don't think he fits as a winger on your top two, and neither one of your top two centers want to really be wingers or seem to be comfortable moving themselves to the wing. Like it's kind of, where does he fit? And I think answering that question, and if you don't have an answer to it potentially, as we see these rumors maybe moving on from it, 'cause that's the one thing they've done. When they make a mistake, they cop to it and move on from it pretty quick. And there hasn't been many in fairness, but that's been the MO when they can. Can you sort of upgrade on him as a fit? Because right now it's sort of hard to see how he does fit in with this group. They've tried him with Miller, they've tried him with Patterson, they've tried him on the third line that, like I said, frankly, can't be the third line when all three of the, these third line are back and healthy. So to me, it's more about the mix and the fits. And like I said, to this point, they haven't missed very often in terms of bringing guys in that they know will fit their system, their preferences, and somewhere in the lineup they've got them penciled in that hasn't been the case yet with Lindholm. And I think how you solve that sort of answers in some ways what your other needs are. - Last one for you, Woodley, on Jacob Markstrom. He had some pointed comments for those in the higher up of the organization with the Calgary Flames and how his situation has been handled. Was there a trade in place? Did he, was he asked to wave his no trade clause? I mean, it's been reported in a couple of spots. But it just feels like that relationship almost like, if it doesn't end now, it's might be broken by the time the summers come around. - Well, my understanding is it wasn't just once that he actually did agree to wave his no trade twice. And that's where some of the frustration that you see. Now, I don't know if that was twice to the devil's or there was another team involved, but that he actually agreed to do it twice and nothing came to fruition. And that's where your frustration lies. Yeah, I mean, things change. I think we can all see the need in New Jersey. I've talked a lot about the fit, both in terms of what the devils give up and what Markstrom is excellent at. I don't think Markstrom solves their defensive woes. I don't think teams with their underlying defensive profile do much in the playoffs anyways, historically. But if that's how you're going to play, you need an acrobat. You need a guy who plays it as a level. And behind a team that's actually even worse defensively, Markstrom has been all those things for the Calgary Flames this year. The fit just seemed as much as there's no perfect fit and you can never predict how goalie A moves into teams, X, Y or Z, exactly right. He checks so many boxes for them that it's really hard to see, even if it doesn't happen now, that it doesn't happen to see it not happening at some point in the summer. And yeah, we'll see. I mean, my understanding was they got between one side and one at half retain. The other agreed to 25. They split the difference somewhere in the middle. I'm not sure where. And that got shot down at an ownership level. So I understand his frustration. I hesitate to say that things are broken to the point they can't be fixed. Relationships can always be repaired. He settled there. He has a young family. So I think in some ways, the same level of frustration he has with how the process went might also be things that if you were to sort of smooth it over a little bit, might be the same things that would make him content to stay in the same place as long as a plan for the future was presented. - Woodley are the best. Thanks for this. - Thanks guys. - There he is. Kevin Woodley on Sports at 650. Brought to you by White Rock Hyundai. Visit the showroom on King George in White Rock or whiterockhunday.com. And he joined us via the dispatch plumbing heating and air conditioning hotline. - Pretty interesting there on Jacob Markstrom. - Yeah, I mean that further explains why he's so frustrated. - Yeah. - If you've come up to him, he has a no trade clause. - Yeah. - You go up to him once, he said, okay, nothing happens. Then you do it again. - Yeah. - And nothing happens? I'd be pissed too. - Yeah. - So what are we doing here? - Are you making a trade or not? - Yeah, and if you're not, like clearly you don't want me, but then now you do want me. - Yeah. - Like what's going on? - Could you not go to ownership first before coming to meet a way of the no trade clause? - I will say this, Calgary's ownership is notoriously known to be very... - Fickle? - Very fickle. Perfect word for it. It can be very fickle. And it can be very hard to manage and deal with. And they can change their minds quickly. And you know, Murray Edwards is known to kind of get upset at times, emotion takes over and everything. So it's a very tricky situation to be in, but it's also a bad thing that it's getting out. - Yeah. - And I think Conroy's got to be careful because the more it starts coming out that somebody above him, how he's managing, he looks impotent. It also looks like, hey, the owner or the guy in charge is hard to work with. It's unstable. It's a bad look. - Yeah. - It creates a bad vibe. So I can understand why it's going to be an irritating situation. I think they have to trade him this off season at the very least. - Interesting spot. And a lot of interesting things to continue to discuss. Still awaiting more details on the trade for Noah Hanifen and the Vegas Golden Knights. He looks to be headed there. So that's another Calgary player out the door. And word is that Vegas could still be in for a forward on the trade market beyond the Anthony Manta and Noah Hanifen deal. There's going to be some retention that's been reported from the Vegas Golden Knights here as well. So expect Vegas to still maybe be in on some things before Friday. - Now it has been mentioned that they may not be in on Genssel yet. - Yeah. - So because it's a bigger deal, but maybe Gasek Tofoli, maybe lesser players they're still looking at. - A couple of details on Tyler Tofoli and both from Darren Dregger. Amid all of the action today, be clear Tyler Tofoli is in play. The devil's open to return in the way of multiple picks or a pick and a prospect. As you mentioned earlier, Sat, that might be part of the reason why it's not the best trade fit for the Vancouver Canucks who are aggressive, but also wary of spending another big price on a rental. And Dregger also reporting to Neil Miramannov will be part of the trade that is going to the Calgary Flames from the Vegas Golden Knights. So I have more on that and overrated, underrated next on Canucks Central. - Catch up on what happened in Vancouver's sports with Halford and Ruff in the morning. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music)
