(upbeat music) - We're back in on San Francisco, Dan Reicho, and Satiar Shah. In the Kintech Studio, Kintech, Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Store feet, what are you waiting for? Knox Central is for Enzahn Pacific Vancouver's Premier Chrysler, Dodd-Ramm, and Jeep Superstore on 2nd Avenue between Canby and Maine, or at Enzahn Pacific Chrysler Dot C. A, our next guest will join us via the Hotline, and it's brought to you by Dispatch Plumbing, Heating and Air Conditioning, the first call, the only call, and he is Knox Insider Irfan Gafar, as we get to some trade deadline spice go, and trade deadline day on Sports at 650s coverage, brought to you by AJ's Pizza on East Broadway, in Mount Pleasant, try AJ's traditional New York Pizza, or sink into their famous Detroit Pizza, only at AJ's Pizza, order online at AJ's Dot Pizza. It's Irfan Gafar, Knox Insider joining us on the Dispatch Plumbing, Heating and Air Conditioning, Hotline, what's happening on Earth? - Good pizza, AJ's. - It's delicious, man. - And the crust, the garlic crust is just insane. - It's very, it's fire, that is some good pizza. - Now the Detroit Pizza, it's a little heavy for my like, it's tasty, it's tasty, but it's-- - You gotta know what you're getting into. - Yeah. - You know, like if you're in for that mood, it's delicious, for sure, but you gotta know what you're getting into. - Yeah, but reach like fancy pizza, Italian. You're like, you know, it's gotta be all pretty, and some spinach on top, or basil out of it. - A little bit of prosciut and some mozzarella, you know, and then it's pretty good. - Yeah, reach is pretentious about his food, and may I say? (laughing) - Wouldn't be the first time to agree with that. (laughing) All right, so there's quite a bit going on here. We've got a lot to talk about, we'll get into the rumors of today, what else could happen ahead of Friday, and also wanna get your take on Philip Pronik, 'cause he is now the next big contract, the Canucks may sign. So everything that's happening around Jake Genssel, the idea of the Canucks flipping Elias Linholm to the Boston Bruins. What are you hearing about how these talks are developing right now? - Oh, I think they're just that right now. I mean, they're talks. There's no secret when we talked about it on this show weeks ago that the Canucks still believe that they were in on Jake Genssel, even after they made the trade for Elias Linholm. They still believe that that was very much a possibility that if they could go out and acquire him, they would. And now obviously, you know, Chris Johnson reporting that, you know, the Canucks have, and Boston have talked about potentially maybe moving Linholm to the Bruins. Obviously, you know, that would have to involve three teams if that ended up happening. But the interesting thing there is, is that, you know, the fit, right? Well, as Linholm was brought here to the Vancouver Canucks, basically, to be a little bit of an insurance for Elias Petterson, 'cause they didn't really know what was gonna happen there. Obviously, the Canucks got what they wanted, signs an eight-year deal. And then it just hasn't worked out. Now, you can fault, you know, Rick Talkett and him not playing to, playing him where he believes, where Linholm believes that he should be playing. But it's also on the player, too, right? I mean, you know, the players gotta play better a little bit. So that leads us all the way to today where the prize of the NHL trade deadline is Jake Genssel. And you know the history of the teams and the management staff, obviously here in Vancouver in the relationship that they have in Pittsburgh. And, you know, he's a player that a lot of teams are definitely in on. So is it Vancouver and is it Edmonton, right? Are those the two teams with Vegas going to get Matta? So those are the two teams that are pretty much gonna be fighting for his services right now. - Well, and I think part of the question here with the Linholm stuff is, is Vancouver actively trying to move him or listening to teams? 'Cause I've heard teams have called them. The question is how active are they in trying to move the player? Or are they okay with keeping him? - Well, I think that, I think, look, if a move doesn't happen, you know, you judge a player based on their playoff performance and he hasn't played that here yet. So that's one of the things. I don't think that they're actively trying to move him. I think that when you look at it and, you know, if there are the talks with the Boston Bruins about that because they want to get against those, that's the move that you're going to do, then you have to seriously consider it if you're the Vancouver Canucks. If that's something that, you know, has to happen for you to go and get a player to play in your top six, then you have to go and have those conversations. But I don't believe that the Canucks are calling teams, you know, that aren't the Boston Bruins or are calling other teams saying, "Hey, will you take a life with nobody?" I don't think that's happening. - Well, yeah, like if you thought, like, yes, I'm not ruling out the idea that Linholm getting traded could happen, but if you thought Linholm was a good fit for your roster a month ago, I'm not sure, you know, 13, 14 games is going to sway your opinion all that much. Now, you know, do they think that they can ultimately be better by making something like this work? That's possible, but I just, I still have a hard time feeling like the Canucks are completely out on a nice Linholm at this point. - Yeah, I don't think that they are. I think that, you know, you brought a player in at that point in this season, you know, just before February, you know, you're going to want to judge him based on his playoff performance. You're not going to want to judge him based on, on 13 games and when the games really matter. Even though the games have happened now, obviously the fit hasn't been there and just hasn't looked good. Now, that's on Linholm as well, as Rick Talkett trying to find a spot for him, but I don't believe for a second the Canucks are completely out on him. I just think that as an organization, they have to look at every opportunity and every possibility they have to try and improve their team to at least make a run at this thing. - Exactly. Now, I think, can they also get Gensil and keep Linholm? I think that would be the interesting thing. - I mean, that's the difficult part, right? Someone's got to go somewhere. - Yeah. - Right? And you obviously, I mean, the easy names would be. Mikayev, we've heard that the, you know, his plays obviously declined a bunch this season and then you look at, you know, there's been talks about a guy like the Doroz, he's going to be an interesting name for some teams and even maybe a Tyler Myers or things like that. I just, I don't know if they're going to be able to pull that off with those types of moves. There is a world that obviously if they figure it out, they're able to do it. I mean, your mother from the Patrick L. Bean has made some pretty good moves and they're tenured here at the helm of the Vancouver Canucks. So in all honestly, nothing would shock me with those two. - It's, I mean, it is interesting. You know, you think of what it would take to get Gensil, right? And it's going to be a similar package to what you gave up for Linholm, similar package to what the Canucks got for Bo Horvat or the Clodgeroo deal. You're like, that's the template for a player of that caliber at the trade deadline that is a rental and, you know, ultimately I just, I wonder if that's a price too high for the Canucks to get to. - Well, I think Barry Trot said today in a press conference or he did an interview. He said that the prices are ridiculous for players out there, right? And they are, right? I mean, teams are willing to improve. The NHL has a lot of teams right now that think that they can go win this thing. There's no clear-cut team there that really believes that if they do X, Y, and Z, that they're the team to beat. So everyone really thinks that they're in that position, right? You look at the Vancouver Canucks, you look at the Florida Panthers and what they're trying to do. And, you know, time of a lightning, maybe you can be able to acquire a guy like Noah Hanifen and sign him to a big extension. So there's a lot of teams out there that think that, you know, they're one or two moves away from being that good. And I think that that would drive the prices for some of these players. Yeah. And as far as what Pittsburgh is asking for right now, it seems like no team is obviously because the trade hasn't happened. Nobody stepped up to meet that price. Is there ask going to have to come down here if they want to make a deal in the next 24 hours? I mean, maybe. I just think that, you know, they are selling very high on this player. And, you know, as they should, I think a lot of it has to do with the extension for the player too, right? So is there a team willing to give up so much if they don't know that that player is going to extend in their city? And I think that that's a discussion that you really need to have. Like, are you good enough to give up this much for a player that's a quote unquote rental? And you don't know if he's going to be back. You, A, better make it to the Western Conference Final or Eastern Conference Final or B, the Cup Final, and then win the thing if you really don't know. And you're willing to, you know, mortgage a lot of your future. Yeah. And as far as Canucks assets go to make re-protected first for next year, you'd probably, you definitely want a lot of re-protected. We know Nils Hoaglander isn't the trade asset. He was earlier. I mean, he's got a lot of value, but a player that they'd clearly be reluctant to move. And you're talking about like Romacki, Willander, Podkolzen. I just, you know, I wonder if the Canucks are willing to move off of their top assets to make this kind of a deal? Well, I mean, for sure. I, like, credit to Podkolzen. He's played good in the American League, but I really do think that he's up here for a reason for other teams to watch. Right. Right. I mean, there's no secret. And he's played well. So if there's a situation where, you know, he's a guy, but are the Canucks willing to move on from any of the guys, those guys that you just mentioned, right? Elector Macki, Willander, Podkolzen, Ratu, Podkolzen are all those any of those players going to be able, and you have to look for the picture point of view. Do they even want any of those guys? And who is it going to take for you to acquire this player? Yeah. I think that's going to be the big question. What is Vancouver willing to do? And if you're not willing to go down that road, and maybe they don't end up getting Jake Genssel, the other guy, you know, we know we talk about a lot in this market is Tyler Tofoli. I think the big question that we all have is, Will the Devils make him available or not by Friday's deadline? I think they will, right? I know that their GM came out and said that, you know, they aren't actively shopping him, but that doesn't mean that they're not taking phone calls on him, right? I think that you'd be very careful when you look and listen and hear and reach up, especially this week about players and things like that. Tyler Tofoli could get dealt at the deadline. They're holding on to him for now. Yeah, absolutely, because today's Tuesday, right? The deadline's not so Friday afternoon. But what if they lose against against the Panthers today? I mean, they're losing right now. We're going to lose this game by the end of it. Yeah, I mean, they're they're playing terribly right now to be completely honest. But as Travis Greenbump didn't work to all, we get into that later if we want. But like, I mean, look, I think that there's a very real possibility that that he's a player that could get moved. But another guy that's going to need a contract, too. Yeah. So if Anthony Math is going for a second and a fourth with 50% retained, what's Tyler Tofoli worth, right? Tofoli's worth the first round pick by that assessment. Yeah, I mean, you're probably right. But then you look here. You can't do that here. You don't have one. And I think that's why we hear them looking at guys like Zucker. And what's the price going to be for a player like him? It's not-- I mean, it seems like the coyote is asking for a lot, because right now everyone's asking for a lot. Yeah, and there aren't a ton of guys available. But it's not going to cost you nearly as much as it would cost you to get those other high-end guys. Yeah, Zucker, Zucker would be an interesting one. Because I don't know how far along those conversations got if they got anywhere with the Arizona coyotes. But like, he plays that game in a pretty nasty style. Like, he's a tough guy to play again. So you know, even if they end up not getting gantled or not trading a guy like Eliza Nomina, and they could end up acquiring a guy like Zucker, I just wonder if, you know, he ends up playing with on a third line, Whistling home. And then they make that like a checking line. It's, you know, I know there was some thought about Jordan Greenway. The price was high there, too. I mean, it's just-- prices seem to be high everywhere, as you mentioned. And, you know, that's not a good spot for any buyer to be in. But there's only so many sellers to go around right now. And that's part of the issue. It's very clear, though, the Canucks still want another forward to add to this team. And it's trying to figure out which one makes the most sense for them. And, you know, given that they don't want to pay this high price for a rental, you know, could we see them try to target somebody with term? Like, they haven't really been linked to Butch Nevich at all. But, you know, I wonder if there's names out there that we haven't really talked about all that much. Yeah, in Butch Nevich, I think they were. But I'm not entirely sure if anything got anywhere with him. But I'm not asking twice again. It's going to be really high. I think a player with term-- if you look at any of the teams that are cup contenders right now and believe that they can go and win this thing, a player with term is probably something that you'd want. Especially if you're the Vancouver Canucks. Like, you look at your window here of opportunity in the next year, next year, maybe the year after that. And then you look at your prospects coming up. Like, how far along is the guy like Lecker Mackey? How far along is the guy like Willender? Like, those guys might come in. And you know, there's a couple windows already closed for this organization, right? So if your times go to win now in the next two or three years, you want to try and get a guy that has some term. One thing that I'm hoping to see here is a team coming out of the woodwork. Because what you hear is, you know, teams being reluctant to move prospects. And they're like, you know, we'd move this guy, but not for a rental, for instance. And then sometimes when that happens, you see teams that are on the outside catch wind of that and be like, hey, we have a guy with term here he may like. And sometimes we see that happen. There's always a surprise or two at the deadline where a player you didn't imagine became available and got traded or something like that came along. And that's one thing you can't put past this Vancouver management. We saw it with her own last season, different situation obviously, but still a player that were able to pry away that nobody thought was really available at that time. And that's something that I wonder if we all get surprised here in the next 24, 48, 72 hours, they pulled something out of left field and acquired somebody that has some term left under contract. Yeah, I mean, that definitely can happen. I mean, you look at the teams that are kind of playing themselves out of it right now, like the Kraken still might believe that they're in it, the wild. Coyote's obviously duck sharks and black ox. I mean, the ducks have a couple guys there that are going to be an interest to a lot of teams. We haven't even started talking about their players yet. And then obviously you go, you go to the East, the Penguins, no secret, the Devils losing today. The capital is just traded, Manta, or really want anyone from the Canadians, I'm not sure. Now, Jordan, go away at the Sabres, then you look at obviously the Ottawa Senators and Columbus Bluejacks, if there's anyone that you really, really like on those rosters with some term, you can go and try and make some moves there. But again, I think right now the target probably is gentle. I think that, you know, with Pittsburgh coming out and saying that they want to get something done by, you know, tomorrow evening, I think that's obviously, you know, Kyle Dubas kind of wanting to get it done and this to be over with. It's very ambitious. Yeah. Well, having a deadline before the deadline. Yeah. Is a flag. And you know what, he probably is going to get his wish to be completely honest. So we'll just see what happens. Well, he knows he's got the best player on the market, right? So yeah. And generally, like in past years, the best player on the market gets traded before deadline day. So I wouldn't necessarily expect it to be any different this time around. So Canucks get Elias Patterson done. And that contracts in the books. And then we hear that Alan Walsh is meeting with Patrick Alven yesterday in LA. Alan Walsh happens to be the agent for Phillip Ronik, the other prized restricted free agent. Well, now the biggest prized restricted free agent on the Canucks roster. We've always heard that the number is at least early reports have been. The numbers probably going to start with an eight for Phillip Ronik, which has always felt ambitious. But what are, what are we expecting and how this plays out with Phillip Ronik, who's been integral to the Canucks success this year? Yeah, I think, well, the ask is going to start with eight for sure. Yeah. And if you look at it by his is comparable around the National Hockey League, he's probably going to get that on paper. But I think that when you look at it, if you're the Vancouver Canucks, you obviously can't afford to pay a guy like him that much money. Can he? Well, it's also like how much do you believe is he worth that, right? Well, that's the thing, like, can he drive his own pairing? Yeah. Or is he going to be a product of Quinn Hughes? And how much money is Quinn Hughes going to make, guys? Well, and that's the thing. And I think what's going to be really fascinating is, I view her own it to kind of be in that Mackenzie Wieger range. You know, perhaps even we saw Damon Severson now. Severson's better defensively, I think. Her own it's better offensively. But both can do a lot of, you know, things across the board well. Severson struggled this year. But I think it also shows that those guys aren't true number twos, right? They're more like number threes, maybe twos on some teams. But they should be in that 50 million total money range, which is anywhere from 6 to 6.5 million per season over a long term contract. If you can get her own exciting, even 6.75. I think that would be my max, like 6, 7, 5. It would be in line with maybe a bit more inflationary price on them Wieger Severson types, right? Anything above that, I think you're paying too much. Because I think you're paying for a player who's not as good as the money you're paying him. Because a lot of that stuff is inflated. And that extra $500,000 or $1,000,000 over 7,8 years, I don't know. That's kind of tough for a guy who may not truly be, you know, the type of difference maker you're hoping him to be. Yeah, 6.25 for Wieger, right? And you look at the guys that are just in around that range. Overall, 6, 7, 5. Camp Fowler's making 6, 5. Hands with Lindholz making 6, 5. Yeah. That's the range. Yeah, like I don't think he's as good as Morgan Riley at 7, 5. Vince Dunn, I mean, I'm not entirely sure. X-flat, obviously, when he's healthy, he's one of the best defense in the league. Yeah. Or he'll all got overpaid, right? But also, Orlov didn't get term, right? You know, just like the couple of years versus this guy getting a 7,8 year contract. Yeah, I don't know. I think that for a guy like Philip Roanek, you just have to really look at and say, is he going to be a guy that we have to pay $7 million to you? And he's just going to be alongside Quinn Hughes. Like if you're paying that much money to a defense man, they can't both be on one pair. Like you need to know and trust that he's able to drive his own pair. Do you know how many defensemen have more assists at 5 on 5 than Philip Roanek do? Does this here? I'm going to assume it's 0. Yeah. Yeah. It's 0. And in total, there's only three defensemen in the league. One of them is teammate and line mate, Quinn Hughes, that have more 5 on 5 points than Philip Roanek does. Josh Morrissey and Victor Hedman are the others. Yeah. I mean, he's having a terrific year. Yeah. I mean, look, they're connecting a ridiculous job. Banking all these points at every point of the season by just destroying hockey teams, left, right, and center. Like driving prices up for their guys. Quinn Hughes was making Philip Roanek a lot of money this season and vice versa. And I think when you look at it, obviously a lot of that stuff comes into consideration. But from the Canucks point of view, like if they look at it and say, OK, if we put him on his own, what can he do? Yeah. And I think that that's where they're going to start. Well, it's how much is Quinn Hughes? Well, it sounds almost disrespectful to Roanek, but how much is Quinn Hughes inflated Philip Roanek's value? And they have to be cognizant of that. I think Roanek has helped Hughes get the best version of Hughes on the ice, too. But it's probably less of an impact than Hughes has had on Roanek. I think this is one of those things it comes down to, ultimately, is Roanek going to play ball and essentially show that he wants to be a part of the Vancouver Canucks? And if he does, then you'll probably sign around $7 million. And if he doesn't, then maybe he ends up getting traded in the summer. But here's the thing, too. I wonder how willing he is to go somewhere else on as an RFA, right? And they're willing to give him the money he's looking for. Or does he have to go there and play the year out? You know what I mean? And is he going to say no to a $50, $52 million contract thrown in front of him? And that's what I wonder about ultimately. And if he says no to it, you move on. That's how I view it. Yeah. Yeah. Tough spot that the Canucks are going to be in with Roanek. Erf, we always appreciate the time. Going to be an interesting couple of days. Thanks for this. Yeah, gentlemen, fuel up. There he is. Erfon Gefar joining us. Canucks insider here on Canucks Central. And the Roanek thing is wild. He does have our brights, too. So that complicates things a little bit. If he were to get to arbitration, he could probably, you know, he'd have a lot of arguments in his back pocket to make. Because generally like raw statistics help you a lot when you get to an ARB case. For sure. But it's a one-year deal. Yeah. You know. So it's like, yeah, fill your boots. It's one year. You know, even if you get seven and a half or something, right, you know, we're seven and a half versus the $50, $60 million contract you're looking for. And that's a risk. You go, let's say you go somewhere else and he takes the ARB, takes into ARB, takes the one-year deal. How likely is he to have the type of year that's going to not only keep his value where it is, but even potentially inflate it. And I think the chances are low. And that's not to say he's not a good player. He's a really good player. He's just, I just think you've got to be careful with that contract. And I wonder if ultimately he's happy here. And again, like if you, like the Uyghur contract, $50 million and $52 million, like that's a lot of money. Like, let's not act like it's not a lot of money to put in front of somebody. JT got $56. Yeah. You know, Josh Morrissey, who I just mentioned is being one of the players above Veronica in five on five points as a defenseman. And he's getting six and a quarter. Generally, like, defenseman contracts have been pretty, I guess, repressed in comparison to forward contracts. I mean, if Queen Hughes were to be up for a deal right now, he'd, I think, easily be the top paid defenseman in the league and probably be able to command around the same that Pedersen just commanded. Probably around $12 million if he wanted to. So it's more about what you can negotiate. And I think Ronik has earned quite a bit of negotiating power. Yeah. And that's sort of the sticking point for the Canucks right now. It's Dan Riccio and Satyarsha. We'll get to a bunch of your texts here in the next segment. We get a little bit of a pre-pregame show going on as well. We've got Justin Born joining us at 5.30. We've got an extra half hour at 6 o'clock and a pre-game starting at 6.30 with the Canucks puck drop in LA being a 7.30 puck drop tonight. It's a lot still to get to here on Canucks Central. The most opinionated Canucks show out there. Canucks talk with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Grams. Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC] Stan Riccio and Satyarsha here in the KinTech Studio. Hour number two of today's program. You can tune in on trade deadline day to Sports at 650s coverage brought to you by AJ's Pizza on East Broadway and Mount Pleasant. Try AJ's traditional New York pizza or sink it to their famous Detroit pizza. Only at AJ's Pizza. Order online at AJ's dot pizza. We're all in agreement. AJ's makes one hell of a pie. Yeah, fantastic. And now I'm hungry. I am very hungry and I already had a snack. So I came prepared today lots of food with me. And I'm like right full 20. Sat not prepared. Has anybody ever seen sat not prepared with food? Because I've never seen it. It would definitely be more notable if you were like, "Oh, I didn't come prepared today." Or like at least fix it somehow before the show. Yes. As you were reading that, I turned to Josh and said, "I really want pizza." Yeah. I want pizza right now too. Pizza. Does anybody not like pizza? Everybody loves pizza. Everyone loves pizza. So yes, trade deadline on Friday. We'll see how busy the Canucks are. Hopefully they make deadline day fun, you know? Because the history of the NHL in the last couple of years is most things get done before actual deadline day. But this is also why AJ's is smart. They buy deadline week. Yes. Right? Because we're in deadline mode right now. The Canucks may be all out of trades by Friday. Yeah. This comes from Gordon Locke, a loyal listener. Also, I'm sure very sad that Anthony Manta was treated by the capitals of Vegas instead of Vancouver. Yeah. Anthony Manta, big guy. Soft. Guaranteed, he's about to be the best power forward in the league now that he's a Vegas gold tonight. Gordon Locke with this tweet. Speaking of defenseman and trade, you guys think Canucks would look at Justin Schultz, seeing the price for 50% retention. He's 3 million. Might need a third to get him at, might need a third team to get him at 1 million bucks. Yeah, please. Welcome into my office. We can have a discussion about this. Yeah. I'm all for Justin Schultz if you could get him relatively cheap. And, you know, he's been on my watch list for righty defenseman, especially if Tana was gone. And the cost probably would not be anywhere near. Yeah. Would have also acquired Tana. He's playing under 17 minutes with the crack in this year. More of a power play guy at this stage but can play 5 on 5. Moves the puck decently. Gives you decent depth. Can fight for a spot on the lineup. I'd be all for going after Justin Schultz. It's interesting how the focus, you know, after they traded for Lindholm. You know, the idea was, well, they'll probably still look at getting a defenseman. And ever since that, the way the team has played, it seems like the only, like, they are a lot more focused on getting a forward into this group right now than even adding a depth of defense. Yeah. I think obviously the priority, and especially when you look at the market, Manta's gone off the board. The Genssel stuff is heating up right at the very least. Dubas is trying to expedite a market around him with timelines that he set out or, you know, deadline he set for next year. Hope that finishes it off by tomorrow even. So that's the big focus right now. But I do think you can still be focused on multiple things. And I do think this front office does have multiple lines in that they're working on. And it wouldn't surprise me that you do see a few trades, you know, and I don't think they're going to be sitting there so focused on trying to get a forward that they missed out on other guys. Yeah. I think that the way their front office structured and how they have people set up for responsibilities, that they can do multiple things at the same time. So I wouldn't be as concerned about that. But yes, the focus right now very much is, especially with Genssel, his market being what it is, you have to be on top of it right now. Yeah. Is Vancouver going to be the team that tips over the scale? Again, like I mentioned the first segment, it's a standoff you're in right now. It's a staring contest. It is. And honestly, like the more I think about it, and I mentioned this to you off air too, like how is Pittsburgh going to get their ass? Like are they going to get something? No other team has gotten over the years. The horror bad trade, we all talk about being one of the better ones. Yeah. Because the Canucks got a relatively good first round pick. It was top 18. Well, and it was at the time of the trade, the Islanders were very much on the playoff bubble. Yeah. And the pick was top 12 protected. Yeah. And there was a chance it could have been unprotected next season, big year afterwards. So it had a lot of value. And you know, both the Canucks and when they traded it to Detroit, you know, they were playing on the idea that, hey, this is the potential of being a lottery pick, that like it had extra value than what, you know, the current Canucks first round pick had in the Elias Lindholm trade, for example. Is that equivalent in value to a top prospect? That's what they're asking for. Yeah. And it's still not. Because you're, you know, you were still looking at a most likely, most probably a mid first round pick last year. Yeah. So I just don't know if they're truly getting a Lakerimaki Willander from anybody else. So the other, Pierre Lebron mentioned the trade comps for, for Jake Genssel are probably the Bohor of that trade. The Clodgeroo trade and to a certain extent, the Lindholm trade made earlier this year by the Canucks with the Calgary Flames. So if you're going by that, yeah, Pittsburgh's going to end up with a first round pick, a decent prospect and probably a roster player of some kind that helps make the money work, but not as much a roster player that is, you know, somebody that really necessarily moves the needle for you as somebody that really works for your team in the long run. I mean, maybe it's a younger roster player that you have hopes for, but generally, like you don't get that for rentals. So you look at the Clodgeroo trade and who was the prospect included in that? Oh, it's good. And he's turned out great for the Philadelphia Flyers, but at the time of the trade, he was a prospect that didn't have a ton of shine on him. He was a prospect that was more of a depleted asset that Florida gave up in the deal than he was, you know, this big shining prospect of their prospect pool. Yeah. And Florida had a little bit more leverage in that situation because Clodgeroo was like, yeah, I'm only going to the Florida Panthers. So, you know, that's, that's kind of the way I, you know, you're right about that. You know, if Pittsburgh gets more than, you know, the generic formula we've seen for a top-end rental in the past. Yeah. And, you know, maybe the prospect's going to be slightly better. So that, so that whole idea of, you know, first a high-end prospect and, and a good roster player, to me, is unrealistic. They're going to have to bend on one or two of those things. Yeah. And we'll see what ends up happening on that. But Genssel is the prized, prized asset right now in the trade line world and still trying to figure out, like, who's, who's really in on Genssel? Yeah. On the Canucks. Yeah. And I mean, all the reporting's been Vancouver's is very active on it. I've heard they are, of course, you know, but I think it's very obvious, too, that they're not at this point looking to jump ahead of the market on it. Yeah. You know, they're not desperate to go out there and overpay to get a deal done. You know, like they've made the Lindholm acquisition and you can still, you know, make a couple of additions around the edges, whether it's a sucker type, if it's not him. Yeah. And Justin Schultz type on the back end. So you're talking about, what are you trading away a third round pick? You're trading away like a B minus prospect or something. You can live with that. That stuff you can live with to make those types of acquisitions. It gives you a bit of a boost. It gives you a chance to have a bit more depth. Is that wiser than going out and overspending on somebody you may not even be able to keep? And I think that's the thing with Genssel, too. If he's not talking contract, you don't know what it looks like for to keep him even, then are you going to be paying the price? One thing that is scary is the Vegas Golden Knights, they could still make a Genssel trade. Even after making the Manta deal, they are projected to have per cap friendly, just under four and a half million of deadline cap space. So with retention, they'd still very much be able to make a Genssel deal. Should they be able to put the package that wins the Jake Genssel sweepstakes? I want to get in more on the Dunbar Lumber text message inbox. 650, 650, if you have a question, comment on some of the trade discussions that have been going on. Ricky with this text. Did the Canucks create a seller's market by starting the action with Lindholm so high? Now, this ties into the discussion we just had. But when the trade was made, it felt like a very normal sort of package for a top end center as a rental. Now, I'm sure because of the way Lindholm has played, it feels high for everybody because Manko scored another two goals last night, although it hasn't been so rosy for him and Calgary by any stretch of the imagination. But did they pay a higher than normal price for Elias Lindholm? I don't feel like the Canucks did. No, and I think ultimately that's, did they maybe trade an extra pick, like the fourth round pick? To me, your mole wasn't like, I don't even think the Canucks would have signed him. So to me, that's not somebody you lost. It's the extra pick. It's the third or fourth, right? But the Canucks are also offloaded because Manko's contract, just like the Canucks took pavilier's contract on. Yeah. It felt like Calgary settled for quantity over, you know, a real, like, Bristevich is among the league leaders in the OHL. Yeah, he's a scorer. He's a solid prospect, but he wasn't one of the Canucks top prospects at the time of the trade. No, he was, you know, arguably outside their top four, five, even, depending on how you rank the guys. And when you looked at the trade on paper, it's like, oh, they got a first round pick. They got Andrei Kuzmenko. They got this prospect. They got another prospect and they got a fourth round pick. So it looked like you got a lot just for Elias Lindholm. Yeah. And, and I think that's part of it. Now it also comes down to what Kuzmenko is. Kuzmenko being really good and all that. So I think part of it comes down to, you know, what does Kuzmenko do? He's got a couple goals. You know, he's had some ups. Some downs. He's been sick too with Calgary. So it's been a mixed bag overall for him there, but it depends on how you view that as, in terms of an asset. But overall, I was very much in line with your traditional package for one of the top centers available on a trade market. A couple more texts coming in. This one, how good, really, do we expect Genssel to be on a new team? He's played his whole career beside one of the greatest players on the planet. We're not going to find out until the Canucks, or if somebody makes that move, right? But I think he, when you watch him play, like it's, I see a player who can shoot the puck really well, goes to the dirty areas, is smart and can play off talented hockey players. Yes. Sydney Crosby is pretty good, but anytime he's played away from him, he's still been pretty good. So I think there's a lot of standalone value in him. Is it fair to ask if he's going to be quite as prolific without Sydney Crosby? I suppose that's a fair question. He's been Crosby's best winger of his career, right? You can talk all you want about Chris Coonitz, who, by the way, made a team Canada. Maybe Mary and Hosa the year they played together a little bit. Was Hosa really Crosby's line made all of that? I think he played with Malk in a bit too. But the thing when Pittsburgh's always been they moved the line mates, right? Like they never had, like, set duos. They always kind of shifted guys around. Genssel has played with Crosby now for a while. Dupuy was like his, really. Dupuy was one of those guys. Yeah. And Coonitz. Yeah. Were the guys you, at least I most remember playing with Sydney Crosby. And, you know, I guess you never know until you get a sample size elsewhere, but I've always just felt Genssel is a really smart player. There's a reason why he scores as much as he does because he knows which areas to be in. It's a re-broll in a way of how he plays the game. And I think that could be a really good fit with some of the players who are high IQ players, especially at the top of the lineup, whether it's with Miller or, or Elias Petterson. But also, like, playoff success. I mean, how many guys out there have the type of playoff success that Jake Genssel does? Now, a lot of it came in his first two seasons, but, you know, he had 21 points in his first ever playoff score, 13 goals. They won the cup. He had his next playoff in 12 games. He had 21 points. He had 10 goals in 12 games. That was a year Pittsburgh did not win the Stanley Cup. So, you know, you look at his playoff track record and the guy's got 58 points and 58 games in the playoffs. I mean, it's a pretty unbelievable playoff track record to go along with it. There's a reason Genssel is as prized a possession here at the deadline as he is for a lot of the teams looking to add a score. Like Rick Talkett reminded everybody. He scored a lot of big goals in the playoffs for the Penguins. And he mentioned that when talking about the Penguins and coming into town, you know, a few nights ago, we know he's a player that has produced without Sidney Crosby. He scored a lot of big goals without him. The ultimate question just comes down to is he able to be a 40, 50 goal guy elsewhere? Yeah. I would say he's able to because of, you know, how good I think he is. But yeah, that's the question. And as far as Marion Hosegoes, I pulled it up in the postseason. His most common lineman was Sidney Crosby. All right. 2007, 2008 played 264 minutes together in the playoffs. That's a long time ago. I just remember them being together that playoff. They didn't win the Cup that year. But you know, the reason I remember is because I was an Edson Alberta work in doing radio and games and sports and trying to cut my teeth, covering the oilers and everything. And my roommate at the time was a huge Pittsburgh Penguins fan. A huge Pittsburgh fan. Huge Penguins fan, Harrison. Okay. Yeah. And I remember watching every one of those games with a die, die hard Penguins fan, which was quite a bit of fun, I would say. So the Canucks have the LA Kings tonight. It's going to be an interesting match up. Is there? So you lost 5-1 to LA last Thursday. And it was not a great game. Rick Talkett's been asked about it a bunch. And his assessment is more that the Canucks made some uncharacteristic mistakes, gave them some easy chances, gave them some freebies, two-on-ones, break away, those kinds of things, and felt like, you know, they played a staring contest and LA kind of won the staring contest where the Canucks ended up making the mistakes and LA didn't make too many mistakes. One more puck battles on the night, those types of things could, especially with the Kings being a potential first round opponent, could what you see tonight sort of guide you as to what you might look at at the deadline, traits-wise in a player, like, hey, if we can't get Genssel, then we need to find a winger with speed or we need to, you know, help find somebody that can help on the forecheck rather than a scoring winger. Don't you think they probably have the answer to know the answer to those things by now? They probably do. That's kind of how I feel about it. If we're this far along, is any of these games going to change, you know, what you view about, you know, what you know about this team already or don't know about the team? Would you, I mean, it's not enough of a guarantee like the way, you know, we've seen it play out in other divisions where it's like, you're at the trade deadline, you already know who your first round opponent is going to be. There's a chance it could be Vegas, there's a chance it could be the LA Kings, there's a chance it could be the Nashville Predators for the Vancouver Canucks. But I just wonder, it's probably not the most responsible thing to do, but do you look for somebody that would help you match up with the LA Kings more? And is there that much of a difference between the LA Kings and there would be the Edmonton Oilers or the Vegas Golden Knights? Do you at all even think about the trade deadline as, who makes us the best team or who helps us match up against this team better because we know they're a probability, they're probably going to be our first round opponent. Yeah, I think we already know the Canucks are looking at some, some gritty players too. You know, Brandon do Haim's names come up, they're linked with Jordan Greenway. I think that it tells you already that they would love to add, you know, a player with some upside and some, some, four checking abilities, some size, some snarl to their game. So I think they're already looking for that. Does anything that happens today put them over the top? I guess you can always look at that way. But that's why we mentioned, I think the Canucks make a few deals here. You know, I think that things are looking to add and it doesn't have to be big. Like Dan from Van says, aren't you guys nervous after we lost key games? Actually, I'm not. But I'm worried about giving up too much and getting squat results. I know you only get here so often, but I want a year after year, the market seems a bit too super optimistic, big thinking error, that's Dan from Van. And I mean, that's why I say don't trade away your top prospects unless you can keep a player. Yeah, I'm not a fan of trading away. Ho Glander or like, like Haramaki or future first or whatever to get Genssel and then you need to walks as a free agent. I don't like that. Yeah. If you keep a guy, then you're, you are doing it a year after year. And I think that's where we're at. And if you're looking at adding Jordan Greenway, well, he has a contract beyond this year, right? If you're adding depth, defense, you're not paying a big price for it. I'm not worried about paying, you know, the middling prices. Like I'm not. And I know Cam mentions important Moody does a trend with this team would ground you down teams. LA, Blues, Philly, and the Canucks haven't fared well, but they've also played other, I mean, they beat the Blues five nothing at one point this year. Don't the Canucks profile is a grind you down team sometimes when they play their best? Aren't the Boston Bruins a grind you down team? Yeah. I mean, one game they came back. I think the Canucks can play in those games at their best. Are the Canucks the best team in the National Hockey League? Probably not. No. Yeah. They have some holes, right? But they have a chance. They do have a chance. And I do think the recent stretch here has people scared, you know, you know, to the point Dan makes about being super optimistic. I think a lot of fans are very pessimistic because of the recent trend here. This text says you guys talked just as highly about Lindholm when the Canucks acquired him. How's that working out? Management has effed up all the chemistry on this team. It changes lately. I mean, it's one trade. And the other part about it is because Manko was already not part of the team chemistry really with things, how things were going with him and had the uneasiness with his relationship. And you are going to have a losing streak. Yeah. Were you not expecting the team to have any struggles all year? Did you expect them to get 140 points or something this season? Like even, you know, almost aren't an optimist as soon as they played well. Were you expecting 120 points this year? Do you have the stomach to go through the ups and downs of a season? I'm going to jump the brakes. Let's see what happens here in the next couple of weeks. I 100% agree with that. You know, things were just going way too well earlier in the season. So, you know, it's not always going to be that great. I'm sure the Boston Bruins that are recently and the Tampa Bay Lightning when they had 127 points, both those teams had first round exits. So there are no guarantees. But this little stretch here for the Canucks is a little bit concerning. And I think the only thing it's done is and why the trade discussion and rumor mill has gone this way is show that they could use more scoring through their lineup. They could use more guys that help them generate offense at five on five because, you know, that's the thing that seems to dry up most when they aren't going well. And sure, that can happen for every team, but for the most part, the LA game last week, although LA scored a lot on a few chances, the Seattle game where the Canucks were really loose and played nothing like we've seen for most of this season. Outside of like outside of a few anomalies and the fact that you can like pick them out and remember them because they were outliers on the season, like this team defends well. It's not defending as a team that really plagues them. I think, you know, Ian Cole has had some struggling moments lately. Zadorov hasn't always looked like the greatest fit. But when he's played third pair minutes, you're fine with it. They're getting Susie back tonight. He's been a great fit ever since he came in at the start of the season. Defending hasn't been an issue for the Canucks. It's more and why things have trended this way. Like their five on five chance generation has tended to dry up lately, and that was the biggest reason for the slump. Yeah, and you know, I would say, I mean, some of their chance generation has been all right at times in recent games. They, however, I think have been giving up bigger, bigger chances. You know, in soccer, they're talking about big chances. Yeah. I think the Canucks have given up some more big chances at some of these games based on breakdowns, like the two on ones, the turnovers or the bad pinches or something next thing, you know. Well, they've pressed. The two on one. Exactly. They've pressed a bit too hard, right? Yeah. I'm far less concerned about their chance generation stuff. Not to say that they don't need to generate more. Of course they do and they need to generate better chances, but come playoff time. The games are going to get played that way and how the Canucks play may line up towards low scoring games and how they can eke out some victories, perhaps, and play through details, but you can't be making big mistakes. If we're talking about creating more chances, that means you're trying to maybe play a higher event style. And I'm not quite sure that teams, this team is built for that with how their blue line is built and the types of players they have. And it's built to play that all around game. And I think when they're at their best, they can get back to that. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. I think tonight's game against the LA Kings is one to watch for a lot of reasons, but also how they bounce back, how they learn from last Thursday's loss to this very same LA Kings team is going to be something I'm looking forward to and also the possibility of this being a first round opponent for the Vancouver Canucks. Coming up, Justin Bourne is going to join us, host of Kipper and Bourne on Sportsnet 590, the fan, his take on the Canucks right now and what could happen ahead of Friday's deadline. That's next on Canucks Central. [MUSIC] >> We're back in on Canucks Central and San Richo and Satyar Shah here in the Kintech studio. Kintech, Canada's favorite robotics provider powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. >> Soar feet! >> What are you waiting for? [MUSIC] We're an hour away from free game. Remember, it is a 730 start so that people can make their way through LA traffic to Crypto.com Arena. Can't confirm. LA traffic is that bad. >> LA traffic is not great. [LAUGH] >> Seeing a lot of these texts over the last couple of days, this team barely beat the ducks. >> Going to be ugly. I'm assuming going to be ugly in the playoffs or tonight. >> Tonight, probably. >> Yeah. >> This person always texts in doom and gloom. >> Yeah. >> Every day. >> Multiple times a day. >> It was sunny out today. >> Generally, I have a more positive demeanor when it's sunny out. >> It's sunny but cold. >> Yeah. >> But it's still nice. >> It's still nice. I mean, I enjoyed walking in today. >> Did you? >> Yeah. >> I went for a nice long run. >> 8K? >> Yes. >> Well, are you getting ready for a marathon or something? >> No, just a 10K. >> Okay. [LAUGH] >> Very slow with short strides. 10K. [LAUGH] It's Dan Reichow and Satyar Shah. All right. Let's bring in our next guest. You hear him here on SportsNet 650 in the afternoons. At two o'clock. He is one half. The good half of Kipper and Born. It is Justin Born. What's happening? >> Not too much, fellas. I would ask but I know lots is happening. Can I scroll? >> Okay. What was your reaction to the idea of the Canucks flipping Lindholm in order to help get assets? I presume to make a move for Jake Genssel. >> My initial thought is that I love Jim Rutherford. >> Yeah. >> And also just like I love that they are actively trying to win and affect their own fortunes. I really detest GM work where it's like, "Well, if we pick where draft picks are and wait long enough, eventually we'll have players." It's like try to win. Try to win. And I love that the Canucks are actively trying to get better. It makes sense when it comes to asset management, what they're doing. I like it. It works for me. >> Well, one thing I also think is really fascinating is we always talk about how hard it is to make deals in the National Hockey League, but Jim Rutherford, any regime he's been part of and now Patrick Alveen, they don't make trades look very hard to make and we know they are very hard to make. So I mean, how big of a skill is it to be able to make trades at this volume even? >> Well, I think you have to be accepting that you're not trying to fleece the other GM every single time, but that trades are often made out of actively trying to exchange a player who helps your team, who helps the other guy's team. I think those are possible and they exist and Jim just has these relationships with people and I've interacted with Jim a little bit. He's a very straightforward guy. I don't know if you went through his track record and you'd say that, "Oh, he fleeced every GM he ever dealt with." But I think GM's know that his word is good and that he's genuinely just trying to improve his club. >> Yeah, I think there's a lot of relationship politics that gets caught up and who can deal with who and what kind of-- Jim seems to just kind of be on cool terms with everyone and that seems to make it a lot easier to make moves. >> Yeah, and you're right. The idea of just like, "Hey, how do we make our team better and what are we going to have to do to do that?" We've got maybe three, four, five untouchables on our roster. Other than that, everybody is expendable in the right deal and that's essentially the way they've run this team since they took it over and look at the turnaround they've had in two years. It's been remarkable. >> Yeah. >> One of the things-- oh, go ahead. >> Well, I was just going to say, I don't know if you guys listened to our show at all today, but Kip was talking about how Lindholm was kind of Patterson insurance. And now, if you don't feel like he's the best fit, you don't really need to risk losing him for nothing. And yeah, I just kind of wanted to reiterate that this is what asset management looks like at night, so it works for me. >> Yeah, and I think Lindholm's a good player, right? He's always in the right spots defensively. He's really smart along the walls, wins a lot of board battles, good penalty killer, wins a lot of face-offs. The scoring has dried up the last couple of years, but I test-wise, it's been a lot better for my estimation right now born than what we've seen the numbers suggest with Lindholm. It's been a weird fit. And because Miller and Patterson both play center and are going to eat up your top six, like Lindholm's just kind of been dumped down to the third line. And that's just not the best use of the guy you made a big deal for. >> I think that's the best way to put it. If you look at how you allocated your dollars and whatever, if it's not the best use, then yeah, maybe you want to find a better way in the form of a winger to use someone who costs X amount. When I looked at the Canucks and what they needed, Lindholm did and does make so much sense to me, like he's a guy who provides a sort of two-way steady hockey and you trust. And I felt like the Canucks have a lot of goalscores and creators and all that. And I just thought this guy fit to me. And sometimes it's better in theory than in practice when a player isn't playing how you imagine them. You know, I still see the best of a life Lindholm in my head playing with Matthew Kuchok and, you know, Good Row or whoever was on that awesome line in Calgary. If he's not playing like that guy, then suddenly, you know, the best-case scenario I had in my head. Maybe it doesn't make as much sense. >> Yeah, and I think sometimes too, like it takes a bit of time for things to come together. And I still wouldn't be surprised if the Canucks hold on to Lindholm past the deadline and we see it come together, but still a lot of games left to be played. As far as Jake Hansel is concerned, one thing I really find fascinating is the ask right now that's reportedly out there by the Pittsburgh Penguins, which is a first-round pick, a high-end prospect and a good young player. And typically teams ask for those things and they get those three pieces, but they're never as good as you would imagine. It's like a late first-round pick. It's like a B prospect and, like, say, Anthony Bevilleier or Chris Mankel type, as we saw with Lindholm going the other way. The question is, can Pittsburgh truly get that blue chipper they're out to get? For a rental, which oftentimes doesn't happen. >> No, I don't know. Like, you guys know, like the wavy insider market, you know, in sort of arrangement works with these guys. Like, what are they getting inside information for? Most guys, even our own guys, generally. It's because sometimes they have to share information about what teams are looking for that sets a bar really high, and that helps the team, right? You know, that's kind of a mutual -- everyone uses each other sort of thing, and that's kind of the gig. So I think sometimes, yeah, you put out this, yeah, like, they're not going to be able to pry this guy loose for anything less than -- and you set the bar really, really high. And then, yeah, you end up getting knocked out high, which we even saw a report today that Pittsburgh, like, wanted quality, not quantity. You know, you just mentioned they're rumored to be asking for these three pieces. If any one of them is really high-end, I don't know that the other two -- the quality of the other two even mattered. So, yeah, I get why they have to set the bar where they do. But no, I don't think the Pittsburgh is going to recoup something massive for Jake Genssel. You know, a good return, but I don't think it's going to be some massive haul. Now, a lot of our listeners ask, what's the hype around Genssel? Is he not just somebody that's benefited a lot from playing next to Sydney Crosby's whole career? How do you feel about Jake Genssel? Oh, man, I think he's so smart. Like, I wrote an article early in my days at the Athletic, which I haven't looked up in a while, but I think I said he has, like, immense a level hockey IQ. I think that's in the title, actually. And I just broke down video of his ability to get to the right spots. You know, one of the things, watching Austin Matthews score goals all the time, it's like, "Oh, Matthews got an easy one tonight." And it's like, "Oh, what? Came right to him." Another easy one for Matthews. All of a sudden, it's, like, three months later. And you're like, "Oh, they look easy." 'Cause he knows where to be, right? He knows how to time it. He's in the right place at the right time. And that's Genssel a lot where you don't watch him and go, "God, this guy's fast." Or, "God, this guy rips it," or whatever. It's like, "Ah, he got an easy one tonight." It's 'cause he's just one of those guys who just knows where to be to score goals and knows for the net. Yeah. And I think, you know, we just mentioned, you know, you have to be careful sometimes applying theory to practicality 'cause they don't always go hand in hand. But in theory, a smart goal score that goes into the dirty areas, goes into the soft spots to score goals. In theory, it could work really well with another cerebral center in Elias Peterson, right? So, I mean, that dual in theory could make a lot of sense. Yeah, totally. Like, you know, it's one of those things where, like, you can see a world where they just have this insane chemistry and someone else who thinks it on each other's level. And it's able to work. And that, you know, in that sort of scenario, you've got lightning in a bottle. And I think the Canucks kind of look at the season a little bit like lightning in a bottle where a lot has worked. And, you know, if given the softness of the league and how it's not really anyone running away with it, if all of a sudden one of these sort of moves clicked, you know, they tried to blend home, maybe didn't quite click. We'll try the next one of that one clicks. You know, maybe this is a year that the team just completely shocks everyone. So, again, it does make sense. If they keep going home and go forward with that, I still think it can work and I still think it's a good fit. I wouldn't blame them for thinking, maybe we can better allocate this money and put it towards a different position. I wonder how much of the Canucks interest in Genssel, too, is not only from, hey, he upgrades our roster, but it also keeps them away from Edmonton and Vegas because the Oilers are already scary as heck. And if you add Jake Genssel to that top six, okay, even more scary to the best offensive team in the league. And Vegas just added Manta. You add another top six forward to that team. And good Lord, you find them in the playoffs. It's going to be real tough. So, like, there's two parts to this, I think, Barney. Yeah. Oh, I mean, you're at the point where you're starting to look at playoffs and going, okay, you know, who do we have to contend with and how do we improve our situation? Edmonton is definitely rumored to be in on everyone. And if you can keep him away from them, steer your guy to Boston, makes the least life harder. Thanks. That doesn't help my show. It does, you can see how you start thinking about your opponent, not just your old roster. And so given what you just said about Edmonton, too, if Edmonton is able to get a Jake Genssel, I mean, that firepower just becomes the scariest in the National Hockey League, having those three players dry settled, McDavid and Jake Genssel. Not to mention the way Hyman is going and Nugent Hopkins and Evander Kane. I mean, the list goes on when it comes to firepower with that team. But, like, if you see that upside, why don't you go all in with these guys? Like, if you're Edmonton, you're in Ken Holland's last year, and, you know, like, is it not time to perhaps do something bold like this? There's a chart. Yeah, no, there's a chart on like in the back end of sport logic, you know, sports that has some arrangement with there. And you can see by expected goals against and expected goals for, there's like the good quadrant where the good teams are. You know, it's an underlying number sort of thing when you're talking expected goals for and against, but the Oilers are head and shoulders above the next best team. Like, they are easily the best team in terms of process. And to me, it would be like, how do we then focus on not trading chances? We know we can score at such an elite rate. You know, for me, Genssel, yeah, he's another piece of them offensively, but they definitely need someone on defense. So they don't have those sort of brain parts. We know it tightens up in the postseason. Yeah, it wouldn't be where I would allocate another something too, because they're so, so good offensively. But this team right now, the Oilers do look like a legitimately formidable favorite in the West to me. The way they looked early in the season was just absolutely wild, right? Before they made the coaching change. I mean, they were just giving up odd man rushes, like, like candy on Halloween. Couldn't get a save. They couldn't get a save. They gave up way too many grade A chances. And now like they're a lot better at both ends of the rink. And we've seen what seven coaching changes through the course of this year. Most of them have helped their teams turn it around. Like, does the coaching change, we've seen it in Vancouver too. Like, does it really make that much of a difference? Well, it's crazy because the implication with the coaching change, I think, is a big part of its effort, right? In the early going, when you get a new coach and all of a sudden, everyone goes, "I gotta impress this guy in my ice time and my line mates opportunity is on the line and never really pushes." And it does just kind of make you go, "Wait, were you guys not trying before?" It's not that guys aren't trying necessarily. It's that once a coach has you pigeon holed and do a certain spot, everyone feels like it doesn't really matter what they do. They're just kind of stuck where their coach sees them. And I think a new coach is a new opportunity to prove yourself again. And you would say, in most cases, yeah, maybe it's systems that this change does whatever. But by and large, it is sort of an effort thing. You definitely get this new boost. And then when it lasts, you can say that it's systems and it is accountability. And all the things that Rick Talkett has really been different from Booze Boo-Drow who came in and also had a ton of success. But once that wore off and the system's play wasn't there, it started to, it was reflected in the outcomes. And I think for the Canucks, I understand it hasn't been awesome in the last couple of weeks, but generally the process of the systems and the accountability is there for this team. Well, I think we've seen that in Ottawa a little bit where Jacques Martin is trying to get them to play and make sure they don't give up so many odd man rushes, trying to get the young guys to, as the buzzword is, buy in. And I think that's going to be Travis Green's duty in New Jersey as well. I know we look at a lot of the teams that make coaching changes and generally the goaltending always sucks in those situations. But I think part of it is, yes, the goal tenders aren't making a save, but when teams, the term Rick Talkett has used a lot, you try to hit a home run on every shift. So you're pinching in spots that aren't ideal and you're giving up the odd man rushes when you just need to sort of move the game along and make sure you don't give up the big chance going the other way. I think a lot of these young teams around the league, that's the problem they have more than anything else. I love the idea that it's like the best teams to me are just patient to play the game and wait for their opportunities. They trust that they have the ability to score. They trust that it'll come. If they keep the puck out of their net, when they get their looks, they're going to handle their business at the other end of the ice. And just hang around in close games. And this is something that I have been critical of as I cover the least closely all the time. Is that anytime they start to push and score and doesn't go in to get frustrated and they start to, you know, the deer suddenly pinching and all of a sudden everyone's all the way up the ice and they give one up the other way. It is a big thing to convince a team that we don't have to go score this shift. We want to win this shift and if we get our opportunities handled the business, but yeah, I think that's a really good analysis. How concerning should it be for the Leafs if they do match up with the Boston Bruins yet again in the postseason? Yeah, it's really concerning. But it's not just like if it's Boston, like if it's Florida, the Leafs are a flawed team. You know, the contention I think a lot of people are making is that pretty much everybody is. It's been three years of a flat salary cap. You kind of have to make a sacrifice almost, you know, somewhere on your roster. No one is solid top to bottom. So yeah, the Leafs definitely have a weakness and it would be defensive play. You know, they can't PK and they don't keep the puck out of their net very well. So, you know, could a couple of bodies help them? Sure. But right now the Boston Bruins culture and the way that they just kind of do what I was, we were just talking about, like they hang around in games and they kind of know how to just out wait the Leafs. It would be a, yeah, they'd be considerable underdogs even if the betting odds wouldn't claim that they were. I think Florida is the class of the East and everybody else is a bit of a tier below. You agree? Yeah. Oh, 100%. I mean, their D is great. Babrowski looks like, you know, the best version of himself. And then beyond that, they're so tough and mean. But then, you know, Ryan Hart's going to score 60 plus times and get chucks unbelievable. And bar coffee saw the play he made last night. You kind of go through this team here and got there really solid all the way through. Yeah, there's no doubt that they are, even if they're not that far ahead of the East and points or anything, they are head and shoulders above, you know, what the Maple Leafs look like at this point, just as an example. I just love every Panthers game that I watch turns into a bar fight somehow. It's just like... Yeah, it also seems like Nick Cousins is kind of a jerk. Yeah. He seems to be at the bottom of every pile. I know I think that would get tiring being like, "Hey, Nick, did we not have to fight at your behalf anymore?" Like, give us a night off. Well, maybe they just love it. I don't know. Born. This has been a lot of fun. Thanks for this. Yeah. Thanks for having me guys. Talk to you soon. There he is. Justin Born. The good half is some of our listeners have... Poor Kipper. Also expressed of Kipper and Born here every day at 2 o'clock on Sports at 650. Born is great though. Always provides great insights. He's a game so well. It's always a lot of fun talking to him. You know, on that point too about teams this year and how flawed they are, like Florida is really good. They look very complete. But even them, they're not perfect. Yeah. You know, like every team has some sort of hole somewhere, right? Now some teams may be built better than others still, but every team has somewhat of a fatal flaw that could be exposed, right? Yeah. So I can see why even Canucks fans sometimes are concerned. That's not to say, you know, you shouldn't be concerned that, you know, that they can't get better or that they have, they don't have to up their game or whatever. But it's not like we're talking about end goal being building the perfect team because nobody is perfect. Yeah. And there is going to be a level of, you know, whichever team has fewer holes is going to win, not that whichever team doesn't have any holes is going to win. I mean, the Leafs have $97 million on their payroll. Tampa's got over $90 million. Vegas does. Colorado does. Like all these teams are spending well into LTIR and they're still flawed teams. Yeah. It's the, the flat cap is really showing its effect. There's going to be a little bit of a reprieve this summer, but I think it might be this way until we get to the $95 million cap range. And teams finally start to have a little bit of breathing room sat because, um, you add that to the addition of two extra teams in the league. You know, that's, that's why you're seeing a little bit of a more parody laden national hockey league than we've seen in the past. Um, you know, the, the whole discussion around, uh, the Canucks and Jake Genssel and I know it's, it's been the focus today given some of the news and some of the reporting that's, that's gone on. It's just, one of the things I really like about the way Jim Rutherford has set up this front office and he's been this way his whole career. I find a lot of general managers, not just in hockey, but other sports have this issue where they make a move and then they're committed to that move. Yeah. They're too married to it. You don't, like, if something's not working, move on, you know, and I, I, I feel like this, this club has that sense of when something isn't working out, they're not afraid to move on. Like, has Zadora been the best fit? No, he hasn't. You've heard his name pop up in trade rumors now and again. So at the very least listen. Yeah. They'll always listen on something and end of the day, your goal is to make the best hockey team that you can possibly put together and, you know, that seems to be the thing that guides everything that they do in the Canucks front office right now. And when we look at this team and I know people mentioned sometimes, you know, why do, do names pop up like Hoaglander comes up and these guys come up is because this is a very active front office. Yeah. Involved in a lot of trade talk and guess which names are going to pop up when you're involved in a lot of trade talk, right? And they will listen on things, maybe other teams wouldn't listen on. Mm hmm. And I think that sometimes, I wouldn't say get some in trouble, but get stuff out there. And I think that's what poses questions about what are they willing to do. And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I know people say people with somebody texted and asked, is it a bad thing that Hoaglander's name is popped up? Is it going to distract him and hurt him? Unless there are like real reports saying this guy is being shopped or he's available. I don't think those things bother guys as much. And if anything, they can act as a motivator. If you want to stay somewhere, you know, having your feet to the fire isn't the worst thing. I've talked to a lot of GMs where sometimes they'll use tactics while putting a name player's name out there. They're not really willing to trade them. It's more about waking the player up a little bit. And I'm not saying that's what the Canucks are doing, but I'm saying the by-product sometimes of names popping up, unless it's like really bad, egregiously bad rumors that are nasty or whatever, sometimes act as, hey, stay on your toes, you know? I just don't think the, at first the front office wasn't completely sold on Hoaglander. And you know, he was down in the AHL for the rest of last season. And he's worked his way up through the ranks. He's earned himself every minute that he's gotten every goal that he scored this year and really upped his value within the organization, but also around the league. You know, does Vegas necessarily want to trade Brendan Brisson? Probably not. But if they're going to be making a move for a big talent like a Jake Genssel, guess whose name is going to come up? Yeah. Brendan Brisson, right? Dylan Holloway. Do the Oilers want to trade Dylan Holloway? Probably not. But if they're going to trade for Jake Genssel, you got to give up something, right? And at the end of the day, that's usually why, like more so, and I think Hoaglander's name came up in the past as maybe change of scenery type moves, but now it's like, well, he could be a big asset in order to get a big piece that the Canucks feel makes them a better hockey team. Now you have to pry him out of anchor. Yes. Now it has to be something that really moves the needle for them. Yeah, to consider it. For them to consider it. Yeah. So it's a little bit of a different context when it comes to Hoaglander right now. Yeah. And I think that also shows too that they're willing to change their mind on more information. Yeah. And that's not to say that the player will not get moved. But if it does, it would have to be, I think if it happens, it would be a move we'd all say, okay, well, look at the player they're getting back in return. Yeah. And generally, that's how it should be. It's Stan Riczio and Satyar Shah coming up more on your Vancouver Canucks, getting ready for the Canucks and LA Kings tonight here on Sportsnet 650.
