(upbeat music) Canucks Central Tuesday. It's Dan Reicho and Sati Arshah here in the Kintek Studio. Canucks Central is for enzyme-specific Vancouver's premier Chrysler, Dodd-Ramm and Jeep Superstore. On second avenue between Cambion and Maine, or at enzyme-specific-crisler.ca. Oh boy, a lot to get into. Yes, it is a game day, but it is Trade Deadline Week. And Silly Season is definitely upon us as the rumor mill keeps churning and churning and churning. The Canucks very much involved in a lot of things, but we do have one tray that was just officially made and announced. The Vegas Golden Knights getting a little bit bigger on the wing, Anthony Manta at 50% retained from the Washington Capitals in exchange for a 2024 second round pick and a 2026 fourth round pick. So yes, the Capitals trading away 15 year olds today. It's great. Yeah, so you're paying your future prospects to get a deal is done today. And I mean, what is it? A little Buschkin trade? They made the least trade it for him again before the pick they got for him last time has even been selected. So trading into the future. That's gonna happen a lot with so many contenders having their assets depleted. And I wish I had something more clever to say, but you know what? Things, so many things are happening right now that we just need to get straight into the open here on Canucks Central. (upbeat music) Welcome to the Open. Oh, that's your home. Are you too good for your home? Answer me. Yes, this is the home of the Open. And this is where we bring you the latest and greatest on your Vancouver Canucks, whatever it may be on the day. Our takes inside info, whatever we have in an open segment to start the program. So a lot's happened in the last couple of hours, Sat. Yeah, it's been pretty wild. Let's just put it that way. A lot going on. A lot of reporting by the insiders. The last say two hours. And there's been a lot of buzz in this market, I'd say. It seems like I thought it was gonna be a normal-ish game day. Carson Soussey coming back to the lineup. Thatcher Denko back in goal. L.A. Kings transfer. Little revenge after the 5-1 beat down that L.A. gave you last Thursday at Rogers Arena. And then while Chris Johnston decided otherwise saying that the Canucks believe to be among those pursuing Jake Genssel, word is they've had discussions about potentially flipping Elias Lindholm to the Bruins as part of the machinations to make it happen. Nothing concrete in place at this time. Still lots of moving parts. That was a whopper. And now I'm wondering what are you hearing on the situation? So we talked about this yesterday. We've gotten a lot of questions about it. Could they flip Lindholm? And it always just seemed like too outlandish for me to actually believe it could happen. Yeah, and Elliot broached the topic too on his podcast a couple of days ago and said, you know, it doesn't seem like it, but something a rival GM was wondering about. So what I can gather is that Lindholm isn't necessarily tied against all. OK, so I don't know what's going on with Lindholm exactly. And whether Boston called them or they called them, I've heard that it wasn't Vancouver initiating the Lindholm stuff, like people have called. And you know, these guys don't listen, right? But I don't know if Vancouver's been aggressive calling. I've heard that teams have called, right? That that's as far as I kind of know on teams are saying, oh, Lindholm hasn't gotten off to a great start in Vancouver. Maybe let's check in and see what's going on. Yeah, and Vancouver obviously will be listening to it. What I did here was it's not necessarily tied to Genssel. So it's not like they're waiting to make the lindholm move to get Genssel. They're not necessarily tied to one another. They could be, but not necessarily. Like there is a world where the trades for Genssel and still keeps Lindholm. Well, I think the way CJ, words is tweet, you almost feel like, OK, so what are they working on a three team trade of some kind? You don't believe that's necessarily the idea here. Oh, I'm not saying that can't happen. Yeah, I'm not saying they're not looking at multiple possibilities. All I'm saying is there's a world where Lindholm stays and they still trade for Genssel. Which ultimately is the way you get at least the most talent on the roster, right? It's not like you're finding a player that's more talented than Elias Lindholm. You would just be essentially finding somebody you think is maybe a better fit right now than Elias Lindholm is. And the other thing is the ask is very high. And that's also been reported by Pittsburgh. And I do think Vancouver isn't quite willing to pay everything Pittsburgh is asking for. Right. Which is interesting. Now, Darren Dragor mentioned it earlier today as well before Chris Johnston had his note about how the Canucks could possibly make a Jake Genssel trade work. And Darren Dragor essentially said, sources say our penguins are hoping to have a trade in place for Jake Genssel by tomorrow evening. Pittsburgh is open to quality over quantity in return, but would like a first young NHL player plus prospects. Flexibility comes in the caliber of prospect or roster player. I think we're in a bit of a standoff phase too a little bit. Where you're hearing Edmonton looking at Henry. CJ I think reported that or there's reported that. You're obviously seeing Anthony Manta getting traded through capitals. Now they still retain salaries so they can still be in on it. You're hearing all these teams that have been around Genssel. Also looking at other options. I know Dollywood mentioned Zucker. We talked about him yesterday as a guy to keep an eye on. And today, reports surfaced. The Canucks have had some discussions with the Coyotes about Jason Zucker. So I do think the Canucks aren't just waiting for Genssel. So I think there's a bit of a standoff going on here too. A little bit about, hey, we have a price we're willing to pay. There's a price that you want until you come down. I'm not sure it's going to work here. The question is, who's jumping to make that deal? And Colorado, I guess, is a team to keep an eye on because they haven't done anything yet. But as much as Vegas traded a second and a fourth, they didn't trade any of their quality products. They didn't trade anything that Pittsburgh wants anyways. Pittsburgh is looking for a first round pick. Or at the very least two very good players. A second and a fourth don't meet the criteria. So Vegas can still do the Genssel trade. You know what I mean? So the question is, which team is going to be willing to jump to queue and make the trade? Or is Pittsburgh going to have to come down on their ask? And I do think as teams are looking at other options, that's going to be the question over the next 24 hours. They do, though, have-- they did get Manta at 50% retained for a second and a fourth round pick. It feels like pretty good value for the Vegas Golden Knights. I'm not the biggest Anthony Manta fan, but they got a 20 goal scorer at 50% retained for a second and a fourth round pick. You would imagine that getting that much retention would cost a little bit more on the return, but apparently not. So I am curious because we are sort of-- well, we are a couple of days away from the deadline. This note that the Penguins would like to get a Genssel deal done by tomorrow night is a way of Kyle Dubas trying to force teams to get their best offers out there right now. And that way, he doesn't get into Friday with his back up against the wall. And then he's just accepting whatever the best deal on the table is then. So-- He's trying to smoke out a desperate team. Yes. I think that's what it seems like here. And ultimately, you're kind of playing a game of poker right now. And Kyle Dubas knows he's got the best chip on the table in Jake Genssel because there's just right now on the trade market outside of guys that maybe could come out of left fields that aren't expected to be traded before Friday. Like Jake Genssel is far and away, the most valued, the most talented player that's out there on the trade market. He is. And we know the Canucks obviously have a real serious interest in bringing him. But it's not a come hell or high water. We have to get this player situation, especially when you already have Lindholm. And I know the fit has been great so far. But you still added a significant player to your group. So there isn't a desperation out there to do it. But the other thing, too, is there's word that Genssel right now doesn't want to talk contract. Does that kind of quell some of Vancouver's interests, cool some of their interests? Because if they're going to have to pay the price, which is a first and that high ask, are you doing that for one more rental? It's becoming clear that with Lindholm, he may not end up signing an extension. He's one rental. They said they don't want to do two rentals. They don't want to do two rentals. Anybody they sign that want to at least feel like they can sign that player. So if Genssel isn't willing to talk or there are no discussions, how far along are the discussions anyways, trade-wise? So I do think Vancouver obviously has a big interest in him and wants the player. But like I mentioned, a bit of a, I think, standoff right now in terms of the ask and also the overall situation with it. And that's why I think Vancouver is still very much looking at other options. And that's why you can't just assume they're trading Lindholm. Because if they trade Lindholm and don't get Genssel, like, what are you doing? Yes. Then you're in trouble. And again, there may not be a link. They could be in some way. But like I've heard, I think Vancouver's wanting to get Genssel. The price right now seems somewhat prohibitive. Something's going to have to change. Either Vancouver moves up or the ask comes down a little bit. It is an interesting sort of process. We talked about Lindholm yesterday. The fit hasn't been great. But I always pegged the nine game homestand as probably the moment you start to see the best out of Elias Lindholm. I think the fit part of the issue here is Lindholm's playing third line center right now. Rick Tockett really likes him playing the middle of the ice. Are you going to move Patterson or Miller off the middle of the ice in order for Lindholm to play top six center minutes? Don't know if that's necessarily the case. Does Rick Tockett in his mind want to build out as good a top nine as he possibly can, knowing that's how Vegas essentially won the cup last year? I think a lot of these things are still very much top of mind when I think about this. And trading Lindholm in a way to get assets to go and then get Genssel, ultimately it doesn't really add up for me because you're still one top nine forward short. Yeah, you're still kind of playing the musical chairs game because you move Kuzminkle for Lindholm. Then you're moving Lindholm for Genssel. Now you're going, it's the third guy that you're just kind of swooping in and swapping in and hoping that one guy works. But again, does it solve your issue of having one more guy for a depth and having one more guy to move up front? And that doesn't mean, I think this is what's going to be fascinating. This is not me reporting. This is just us kind of talking here about what could happen potentially, that if they are moving Lindholm, they're adding two guys, you know what I mean? Like, we've heard they've looked at Zucker, for instance, could it be Zucker and Genssel if they remove somebody out? So I think Vancouver's open to a lot of different things. And I think when we look at on the roster right now, how many untouchables do you think they have? It's the guys we always talk about. It's Hughes and Patterson. Hughes, Patterson, I'd say Miller, I'd say Demko, right? In season. Now, off season, maybe different discussion. You listen to everybody and all that. But right now in season, those four guys, right? Would you throw based on how much they like Blueger? Probably throw him in that list. That makes it five players. Yeah, Besser's probably not moving in season. Make that six. Ronik's not moving in season. That's seven. Yeah. And then you're probably not moving Soussey. Make that eight, right? At this stage, it doesn't look like they're moving Myers, right? Yeah. But there's no defensemen available to even consider it. So say nine. So going through the guys, either guys they can trade or guys they won't trade, it's like six, seven, eight guys. Yeah. The rest, I'm sure they listen to it. It's all about whatever equation they have to say, does this make us a better team? Yeah, and you've had some struggles recently where the chemistry's not fantastic. So you're not really as concerned about shaking up a great thing. 'Cause ultimately, to your point about having the three centers, how confident do you think they are in Blueger and Garland still as being your third line that's gonna match up defensively? Yeah, William Carlson or whoever it might be in the playoffs. That's why ultimately, I still think Lindholm could have a big part to play here. I know it hasn't gone the way they had hoped, but he's still cut above what Teddy Blueger is. Well, and even with LA as a potential first round opponent, they've got Co-Pitar, Deno, and Pierre-Luc Du Bois down the middle of the ice. Now Du Bois hasn't played all that well, I get that. But if he finds this game, that could be something that is difficult. One thing I did on this note, so we discussed this yesterday and how much Nils Hoaglander is somebody they would very much be reluctant to trade, but they understand he probably carries a lot of value. And I look at the Manta trade, and Anthony Manta has what, 20 goals, 14 assists so far this year, so a little bit more production there than what we've seen out of Nils Hoaglander this year. But he was at 5'9". Capital's had to retain 50%. Nils Hoaglander's got 19 even strength goals that's top 10 in the league. Plus, he is 23 years old, has a year remaining on his deal at 1.1 and has team control beyond that. So you add all of these things together, and I'm like, well, if Anthony Manta's worth that, then how much value would Nils Hoaglander have? And when I hear Darren Dreger's tweet about, yeah, they wanna first a roster player and prospects, but that could change depending on the value of the roster player and prospect. Well, Nils Hoaglander is kind of a trump card of, maybe you don't have to give up a first round pick if you're throwing Nils Hoaglander in a deal for Jake Genssel, let's say, because he should carry a good amount of value right now. Yeah, his value has skyrocketed, there's no doubt. And I think it's skyrocketed for Vancouver in two ways. One is his value on ice, 'cause he's got 19 goals, and he's on a cheap contract next season as well, but also on the trade market. The question is, is what you're getting so enticing right now and worth it for you to cash that chip in? If it's a rental, I don't think you do it. Yeah. 'Cause either way, I'd rather take Hoaglander into the off season and either make the bet on him to be here or cash that in then, when you're gonna have a lot more teams potentially looking at it and different moves happen, guys, there isn't a robust free agent market this year. And as much as the cap is rising, there's still gonna be a lot of teams dealing with cap issues. Like his value could be a lot higher in the off season. So I don't cash in Hoaglander, unless I feel like I'm getting somebody who can stay here. That's why with Genssel, if he's not signing an extension. It doesn't. I don't know if the team makes that then. You know what I mean? And that kind of thing kind of comes back to, is Vancouver willing to make that risk, take that risk, and then bet on themselves to get the player signed? Or... And Pittsburgh is not, as of right now, Pittsburgh has said that they don't plan on giving teams permission to talk extension with Genssel. So whether it's Genssel doesn't want to really talk extension right now or Pittsburgh isn't going to allow, similar to the stance the Canucks took last year with Bo Horvat, you're not gonna get a chance to talk contract with Genssel unless you acquire. Now, there are ways to kind of figure out if he's going to be willing to talk or not. The question is, has he signaled for sure that I'm not going to talk? Yeah. Or, hey, if you trade for me, we'll have a conversation. Yeah. There's a lot of moving parts on this trade market right now. And of course, the Canucks are very much in the mix on all of them. But, look, I get it. I haven't been the biggest fan of what we've seen out of Elias Lindholm yet either. I just... You're a better team with Lindholm and Genssel, if that's the route you're going to take, or Lindholm and let's say another winger of some sort rather than one or the other. That to me is fairly obvious. How the Canucks are able to make that happen. It's another question mark. Again, people are asking us, how are the Canucks going to make this deal? What do they have to give up? That's what Pittsburgh's asking for. I would imagine. And again, I'm not saying Pittsburgh, it's explicitly asking for Niels Hoaglander, but I would imagine they are. And that's the question the banker is going to have to answer. Like, if you're in the market for a guy like Jake Genssel, who do you think teams are trying to pry away from you? Yeah. It's Willander, it's Lakerimaki, it's Hoaglander. Like, those are the guys they're trying to get from you. Yeah, even Podkolzen. Like, yeah, Podkolzen's a 10th overall pick from a couple years ago, but he just doesn't have the same kind of value as the other prospects do. And that's your third best prospect, essentially, in your system. So that makes it a little bit more difficult. Vegas could still be in the mix for Genssel, right? 50% retained on Manta means they've still got, I think close to $4 million or just above $4 million in cap space. The only thing is, can they truly meet the criteria that Pittsburgh is looking for? They still have a first round pick. First round pick and a prospect they can give up, but they want also a player. A roster player. What's more important to them, the first round pick or the young player that can help them? Because I don't know if they're trading anybody off their roster, what, Genesenko maybe? Yeah. Based on some of the rhetoric, it would, I would imagine a roster player is more important to Pittsburgh who wants to be good next year. You know, they wanna make the most of Sydney Crosby's, whatever they've got left of Sydney Crosby. So they're just sort of recalibrating right now to be as good as they can next season. Yeah, and I mean, do they rate any of these guys? Yeah, I'm not sure. Like, Genesenko's has a potential or whatever, but it hasn't really actualized anything in NHL level. Brisson is a recent first round pick, but he's, he would be the prospect. Yeah. And there's a first, so I wonder what player do they have to move the needle for Pittsburgh? Yeah. And because I don't know if they're willing to trade one of their, you know, one of their players off their main roster to get Genssel. And they don't even have, like, they're not young players. They're all kind of guys who are in that age range where you're winning now, late 20s, early 30s. That's where all their guys are at, age wise. The other interesting part about this, from Rob Rossi, he mentioned he covers Pittsburgh Penguins, covers them very closely, covers them very well. There's, from his knowledge, there doesn't seem to be a boatload of teams in on, on Jake Genssel right now. Now, we know the Canucks, we know Vegas has been said to be in on Genssel, the Edmonton Oilers, questions about what they could offer, maybe Dylan Holloway or something along those lines, Philip Broberg, another young player in their system that maybe has some value. But beyond that, like, who are we talking about here? The Carolina Hurricanes, who never trade for rentals, essentially, at least don't give up big packages for rentals, the Colorado Avalanche, who don't have many high-end prospects to give up in a trade, maybe, like, they have a first round pick. But I'm struggling to see what other contender here has a huge package to give up Jake Genssel, to give up for Jake Genssel. - If what Pittsburgh is asking for is legitimately one of your top assets, top young assets, who's giving that up for rental? - In recent years, nobody really does. - The only team that did it was the Islanders last year, but in the reason they did is 'cause all two were all two, as good as he was. - Yeah, he's a late second round pick. - Yeah, he was their best prospect, but in most prospect pools, he'd be in the top 10, maybe, you know, five, six, he's like their fourth best prospect. - Yeah, or fifth or something, depending on how you want to rank him, right? On some other teams, he'd be like, seven, eight, nine. And a lot of teams will be willing to trade that at the deadline, sure, you know, on a first for a guy, but are they legitimately trading their top two or three prospects? - And teams sell them due for rentals. They sell them due for rentals. So what is Pittsburgh, that's why I think what Pittsburgh probably is looking at, and they've, you know, admitted this, I think, based on the reporting, they value the young players more, and like you said, than the picks. - Yeah. - Which tells you, they're after that one asset at the very least. - Yes. - So I don't think at the end of the day, they're gonna have to be, they're gonna get what they want. I mean, what they're asking for now, it's more about ensuring they get that one piece. - Yeah. - It's like when we talked about bow two, and we talked about other trades, we're like, hey, if you're trading JT, like I don't care about a volume trade, give me at least something tangible. Oh, like, okay, you know, a decent first round pick? Okay, fine, decent prospect, okay. But, you know, at least get something of value, not a late first round pick, and another pick, and like a B prospect, like who cares? - Well, the best asset that the Canucks got in the Horvat trade was the Islanders' first round pick. Now, it was top 12 protected, but what did Alveen say after the trade was made, or what was reported, was essentially, they wanted to get the best available first round pick that they could get. - Yeah. - And that was the Islanders' first rounder, and they eventually flipped it to get Philopronic. So, that one asset, it's going to come down to what Pittsburgh imagines is the best asset to get for them in exchange for Jake Genssel. The other part of the Canucks side of it is to get a Jake Genssel deal in place, you know, you do have to trade a little bit off of your roster in terms of money. Now, if you can get a third party team to collect some salary, then maybe there's ways you can do it without giving up a ton of money. - Now you're trading more assets, but could you get Pittsburgh to retain half, if they want their ask? - Yeah. - You know, make it part of their ask. - Yeah. - Like when the Canucks traded Horvat, ultimately they took back a contract. - Yes, they took back Bovillier, you know. - And they also retained for the rest of the year on Horvat. - Yeah. - To make it work. - Yeah. - So, that would have to be a part of the deal for the Canucks or whoever trades for Jake Genssel. We're gonna keep the trade talk going. Irfan Gafar is going to join us. Quick Canucks Central Roundup, what's happening today? They've got the LA Kings tonight. It's a 7.30 start. We'll have pre-game starting at 6.30 and join up with SportsNet Pacific after the Edmonton Oilers and Boston Bruins tonight. Carson Sousie returning to the Canucks lineup, Thatcher Demko getting the start in goal. Stan Reicho, Satyar Shah, Irfan Gafar next on Canucks Central. - Discussing the biggest stories that matter to Vancouver Sports fans, Halford and Bruff in the morning. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. (clicking)
