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Knights of the Night

235_WoD3_KotN_Sin_Eater_Wrapup_Pesky_4th_Dimension

Duration:
1h 37m
Broadcast on:
15 Jul 2015
Audio Format:
other

The adventure has ended and now it's time to ask the players questions. 

 

This is part one - there is still time to submit questions for part 2.

[Music] Hello and welcome to the Knights of the Night Actual Clay Podcast. This is the world of darkness, Sin Eater Wrap Up. And now please enjoy episode 235. Sin Eater Wrap Up, or that pesky 4th dimension. [Music] We will actually do the 80-pack from last week before we get into the actual questions for the Sin Eater storyline. Over on Facebook, episode 232 Hell is the Land Without Marbles. Sean W. posted some comment about he didn't enjoy Numenir, and it was where he was at the time. I don't know if you have another comment. We discussed it a bit. Yes, I think so. To that Luke G posted and said, "Yeah, well I have to admit that this chapter is not as grabbing as shitlock or chagrin." It was still fun to listen to the game and better than any AP out there that I've tried. Sean W. responded to Luke with, "I think the only reason that it doesn't seem as grabbing is just that the episodes are slipped into smaller bits. Even if you wait until you can listen to a whole bunch in a row, I think there was more commentary and reader questions at the beginning, so it isn't as easy to get pulled into the action before it pauses the gun. I was running a game that had similar situations and themes in it, so I found a lot of the concepts and ideas here extremely interesting. Unfortunately, my players split up one moving about 700 miles away, and a couple of others who were in the group literally splitting up. The group pretty much just fell apart, since I was the only experienced player and used to playing through when life's pick-ups strike. So Sean, sorry, here. My group disintegrating, and it does occasionally happen. Yeah, and I think the shorter episodes too are part of our, just what's happening in all our lives right now, which is hard to get started. It's hard, but too. I mean, we're only playing for an hour and a half or two hours a night, and it's really hard to get as much critical mass or momentum going with that, with the story, and even around the table, I think, to some extent. But anyways, both points are very valid, I think. Luke commented one more time and said, "I primarily think it's because there's a less focus of direction here." In the first chapter, they were pretty quickly locked in on the B people, and in the second while the flashbacks dealt with a variety of other things, the main focus was the battle on the farm. And in this one, there are several elements that could have been interesting all on their own, kind of jumbled together. We were jumping from binary hacks to the shattered man to the white bishop, and while there are clear connections between these elements, the nature of the connection itself is rather murky. I'm suspecting that this chapter is being used to bridge to chapter four and introduce some things that will be heavily important in other chapters, but it feels like we were jumping around a bit. As a game, it's still awesome, though. Thanks, Luke. And again, I couldn't really disagree with that. This was a bridge story, bridging time and space. In addition to the story itself. And I felt like that's the best way to put it. I knew where I wanted the story to end, but I wasn't sure how you guys were going to get there. And I think based on my understanding in my enjoyment of the fate-based system, I probably tried to let you guys... I let you guys... I didn't rein in the tempo and keep it flowing. I let you guys try to make your own path and kind of investigate what you thought was important. As opposed to having a more streamlined story. And that's not to blend me on faith, that's blend me on me, saying I think I was just too loose with the reins. And let you guys... founder a bit more than providing direction that I should have. I wasn't overall pleased with the... Even though I knew it was a bridge story, I wasn't pleased with the pacing of the game. Not on a night-to-night basis and certainly not overall for the story. I think it could have done a lot better job of kind of narrowing the focus, narrowing some of the outside distractions, making the connection slightly more obvious, although there was some uncertainty because there's supposed to be some uncertainty, but I think it was a little too murky in places. And so I think that Luke feels a lot like I feel at the end of this story. Of the three, it was my least favorite. Although going into it, I had really... I was really pumped for the story and I was really excited about the bridge into the past. And you guys really understanding how the past was going to start to affect present-day Cleveland. But I don't think I pulled it off quite as well as I could have. And I think that's really on my shoulders, not on yours, anybody, any players. Go ahead, Mike, sorry. Yeah, just wondering how much you think that had to do with the number of players, because in Chagrin, that's one of the clear things we can point to the difference. And I agree the pacing was not... Yeah, it was not. We had two new players. Right. And what did you have last time, four, five? I guess you're right. We probably had six full-time players. Right. We had Greg in the first story. I remember the three of us. You remember the first? Not the second. Yeah, but either of you. Chagrin, you're saying? Or the first first one? Chagrin. We had Greg for his bat. And we had Ryan. So we had the big guy with Ryan dropped out after like two weeks. Right, it wasn't his cup of tea and life got busy too. And Greg was hit for most of it. Yeah, that's a big change. So it could be... I don't know. I know the stuff that when I go back and listen, that worked really, really well, was almost a one-on-one kind of thing. Right. Like that's the one everybody points to one of the key moments. Right. That was basically a one-on-one, right? A flashback. Yeah. And not that you're going to do that the whole time, but the smaller, the tighter the group, I think, certainly the easier it is. Well, I think people don't play with eight or ten people. Right. I think, Michael, that that's eight players is a legitimate point. I would say, if I was to answer it honestly now, and I might have a different opinion after the fourth story with eight people again, if there is. But I think it's the combination of eight people and a short recording session. I think if we played for three hours, or three and a half hours, and you had eight people around the table, you could get everybody a chance to shine for part of the evening, potentially. And there might be a week or two where, you know, somebody doesn't get their moment in the sun. But I think you can do eight. I just, I don't think it's just the number. I think it's the number combined with the time. There's more than a whole factor. Yeah. What is our typical recording time? About two hours of a recording time for a play time, a night. Honestly, it's less, it's like an hour or ten minutes. Right. Which is ridiculous. That's before I edit. Yeah. Right. And that's been the last five or six times. But I got something else to mention, but I will save it for the feedback later on because I think it's equally important as what you said to many players. But we'll discuss that in a bit. Okay. Back to the feedback. Sean W responded to Luke by saying, "Good point. I guess instinctively allowing some leeway since adjusting pace and focus in a role-playing game is pretty difficult or sometimes impossible when you don't have much feel for the players involvement and how they'll shape the narrative." But it seems to me that Scott had a good grasp of his players, which he should since I think they've almost all known each other for a good long while. Very, very true. Very. As a player, I suspect I had found a reason for whatever character I was playing to pursue the shattered man plot since that story hook interced me the most, though that likely would have led to such a character's demise, pursuing the white dish that makes sense, though, since that will almost certainly lead them to who or whatever is pulling the strings here. At least providing some answer for who got the shattered man involved and nudged grace, time-powered his son back into time, which I think we know that answer by now. As for binary, I suspect he/she is a bit of a red herring at the moment. Important, but not directly related to what's currently going on, or at least not going to be accessible for the players until the next chapter. I think Scott is mostly doing something I also do in some of my games, providing what appears to be several complete story hooks, which will eventually turn out to be connected, or even between chapters. We'll have to see how things eventually wrap up in a year or two for now. Sorry. Yeah. That's probably true, Sean, because someone -- and we'll discuss later on in the story feedback with someone to ask how many chapters you have planned, and we can go into length at that time. Sure. 13. We're not even halfway. 12. One for each of the missing members. Seven, it is. But it also can change because you roll with what happens. Chris N posted and said, "First off, yet another great episode. This story is haunting, dark, and dare I say a little creepy, not to mention a whole ton of fun." My reason for commenting on this episode, however, centers -- yes, I'm from Canada, and that's the way we spell it here. It was with an E. Right. I love the way they spell it. Around the feedback given by Anonymous at the beginning of the episode. I was very proud and impressed with you all for taking the high road on such a pretty harsh and troll-like comment. The product you produced is fantastic, and just because someone doesn't like the story, it does not give them the right to be as rude as they were being. Quite frankly, I don't think their feedback serves any purpose either and should have also been deleted, but I leave that decision up to you guys. I think actually you've said that point, Scott. Yes, but I think I was out of voted as well, but for good reasons. You and Michael had very strong reasons for wanting to read that feedback, and in retrospect, after I listened to your viewpoints, I thought, "Okay, you know, that does make sense. My nature is to not feed the troll." Right. And in two, to me, they could be perceived as hurtful comments. I mean, we're doing something for free, for fun that we all enjoy, and if you don't like it, you don't have to leave a nasty comment. You know, so those are kind of my things where I didn't want Rachel to feel hurt or upset that someone was trolling her. This wasn't the red comment. Yeah, well, that's really not even this. Well, he's saying I read the second comment. He would have deleted even that. Right. And my point with talking, as Scott said, was to bring up the fact that we don't delete them. We're big boys. We can take criticism or a lot of people don't like this. Yeah. Right. But I think we all got a little bit defensive because Rachel is a new player who's never played before. And she was put in a difficult situation with this character. Absolutely. And I think she did a fine job for what it's worth. It was a difficult thing to play. Yeah. And to have someone, and a lot of the comments were just, in my opinion, ridiculous. If anybody listens to us for any length of time, they know we're not going to kill her just because she's an annoying teenager. Right. We kind of play realistically as much as you can in such a world as this. You don't kill somebody just because they piss you off. Well, it's certainly not the person who probably brought you here and the only one. And you have no idea. That can bring you back. Right. You find a way to deal with them. Right. I just want to say, you know, we're going to talk about this at length in the rap section so I'll keep it very short, but she never stopped being annoying. And that's going to, hopefully, elicit some laughs from our listeners, but the truth is, that's hard. Yeah. She knew that the players around the table were frustrated with her teenager. Not just a play at length. She got a little bit hurt by some of the comments from the literacy. Right. And she never stopped playing a teenager who she believed in that situation would act exactly like she did. So from that perspective, bravo for her performance, but teach their own as well for, you know, people who didn't see it in the same way we saw it. Chris and I had a few more comments, so we'll finish with those. As for what was said regarding Silver Bell, well, they couldn't be more wrong or obtuse. I would suggest they go back and listen to the entire arc and see just how much she has grown. I, for one, enjoyed every facet of her play. Thank you, Rachel, for doing such a great job. And recognize how much she has brought to the story. It's unfortunate that anonymous hadn't been able to see the same. Yes. And again, to each the round anonymous can just wait until another story comes along and hopefully enjoy that. As always, you guys and gals continue to impress with both your play and your willingness to address the feedback. Carry on and don't let the trolls bother any of you. They are most certainly in the minority. Chris. Thanks, Chris. Chris, well said. And I wish that Rachel was here to hear that. We'll make sure she gets it. Yes, sure. Make sure she hears it. Episode 233 on Facebook. The gun was persuasive. REJ said, "Ooh, cool intro. Can't wait for the drive home." A little winked face because... Right. Because the word drive, if it's not contained in one of RE's posts, I feel like a make-out. It's the other arc. It's always on the move. It's a keyword. Miles Essett. No. This is in reference to the feedback in which we discussed him going to many different countries and therefore must be a member of the CIA. Miles said, "No, I do not work for the CIA. I work for a library software company." Right. Oh, yeah. Put a wink in there. I'm just saying. That's what he'd want us to believe. That's just what a CIA agent was at. It's always about information. A library. The science is right. What was that, Michael? I said we're some of the three letter agencies. That's exactly what they would say. We are on some watch list. Well, I don't work for the CIA. Or the NSA. Maybe I read that wrong. I work at the CIA, not for the CIA. Just mess with you, Miles. Mike O posted and said, "This may be coming out of nowhere, but just a suggestion for Tom and the upcoming Dresden games. I'd like to see you write some major players into the story. But your stories are all about the small guy unexpectedly taking down a giant deity from any and all mythos. It would be awesome to see the ragtag crew go up against something that truly has them scrambling for their lives with the resulting stress and clematist comedy. I have faith that you guys are leading up to something big there and I wait with anticipation. Keep up the good work, guys. I feel like we did that. Yeah. That's what I'm against. Yeah. I think he means big, big. Yeah, no, that wasn't a god. Right. This is a deadly god. But still. I'm sure it is bigger than us. Yeah. I'm sure it's leading to something spectacular. There was a lot of lead-up in the books until he started taking on things that big. He had two whole stories. I mean, give us two stories. Well, he said anything. He hopes that he starts introducing some elements. So he's not asking for it immediately. Maybe aliens. Oh, yeah. Far away. Theron posted on 233 as well and said, "First thing, sympathy for poor Jim who is playing nobody." Secondly, that's for scary dolls. If you have the guts and don't need to sleep any time soon, then he posted a link to some... Where is that? Yeah, that was actually kind of disturbing. Third thing, I think somehow I'm responsible for the idea of this special musical episode. We curse your name if that's true. My conscience will no doubt be biting me after it returns from the void. Because he introduced a musical episode? Well, look at the thought that the 250th should be our musical episode where we have to sing everything. We're not doing that. Just so anybody in the audience... Who ever brought that up? Really think we're going to do a singing... Be careful enough. It would be fun. Maybe you can. I've been asked... I'm the only one at this table that could sing. You try that? I know of. Is Rachel's to carry that? Can you say it? Can you carry it too? No. I can carry it out to the garbage. I can hum. All right. Bob humming Rachel singing. Rachel singing. Oh, we got it for 250. Very short episode. All right. Jason M. Posten said, "I'd like to applaud Mike for using the Leatherman for the first time." Okay. First time. First time. I think it's actually the first time. No. We used the Leatherman in episode. No, no, no. He used it at Chagrin Farm. He used it to... Cut the wires. Cut the wires to the fence. In the first story of shit luck, he used the Leatherman. He did not go through the fence. We had... No, no, no. But it was part of... He started all of it. Right. His plan. He had a flashlight on it. I thought he used one in Chagrin too during one of the later story episodes. That was for a chapter then. You got it in. Yeah. Maybe it's one per chapter. It's like my little cameo. I have to... But again, our listeners know our story is much better than we do, so... Who are we? Let's do a little more than you have. Yeah, exactly. He probably knows exactly when it happened. Check the wiki. I'm sure Jason will put it. And episode 14. Yeah. On your beautiful Leatherman. We compare it into episodes every time that we mentioned. Can't be able to kick back for that product place. No, we should did. Anyways, he finished. We all know what happened eventually after four years of anticipation. It was almost too much to bear. So... Call B posted also and said... Yes, there are such things as female bishops. They're called bishops. We have them in the UK. Excellent. Well, yeah. That's so... Hold the UK. They show up. They show up. They show up. They show up. What was it that... It was the one that didn't like... That was not even age. Yeah, listen to me. Because they wouldn't... The Pope wouldn't give him a divorce. So he's saying... Fine. Oh, fine. I guess what. Church of England. Now. Now. Pope. Can I have a divorce? Yes. Okay. No way. Absolutely what happened. Luke G posted and said... I'm surprised that the second mouse gets the cheese wasn't a title option for this episode. Because I don't get respect. That's why. Come on, you cannot deny that the final episode of the scenario being titled... I'll see you in 80 years. Does not kind of fit. That's not the issue. The issue was it was even an option. That's true. That's true. Which really goes to his point that he just doesn't get back. He doesn't get back. I don't mind that it didn't win. I just say... Let's see here. Let's go around the table here. Flanagan? Flanagan. Flanagan. Whatever. Flanagan. Flanagan. Flanagan. Not a Flanagan. I know. So you're only outnumbered six to one. That's why he spent two years with a sniper shot and bleeding to death for two years. I think he's the only non-shambling member. You should get more respect. You're holding your own with the others. You're preaching to the choir. I mean he wants the respect and I don't know who the editor... Oh wait a second. I had a week from hell. The fact that the episode got out of time was amazing to beginners. And I have often rushed the picking of the titles. And then later on listening to, "Fuck." And this is one of those cases, Luke is absolutely correct. That is a brilliant title of an episode that should at least... It wasn't Luke. It was not true. I think we should name... No, I'm not a policy bishop. Oh sorry. In honor of respect for... Mike. Mike. I think that we should... It's not worth it. We should name the feedback episode in his honor. The second mouse gets cheese. That should be the feedback episode title. 'Cause you're the second mouse clearly. That's a good thing in this case, because the first... He got the cheese. I like your one before about it. It's a big club. We have jackets. But you had to know it in context, knowing it up front. It's tough to pick it up front right there. But it gets better, because Luke continues with... I'm also surprised that the second mouse gets to claim the credit wasn't used. And this was said by Grace when she claimed, once again, the success in opening the gate. As a note, the Trail of Cthulhu RPG has published an adventure based around the torso murders. It is as horrible as you would expect from a game with Cthulhu in the title. Are you horrible bad or horrible? He means horrific. Horrific. I believe in that. No, it's a good way, I believe. I think so. I don't think the Cthulhu games are terrible. The first time I read the... The first time I read the... Call of Cthulhu? Call of Cthulhu is the original game. It's a rich one. It's a little rough. I think we did play that way back line. I think it was a paper boy or something. You had a little cap on? Yeah, a little cappy. Yeah. And that's the one where Greg was playing a newspaper reporter and he chased after a god. No, that was your group's adventure, actually. That was a group's adventure that you ran. Well, he actually caught the god. Yeah. And he's like, "Oh, okay." No. What did you do? What did you do? You thought you got it. You forgot. I apologize immediately. Yes. Sorry. I'm just going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. I'm going to go through a little bit. Thomas played Edgar Montes. John played Daniel Morgan. I'm missing Grace. Hopefully, she'll join us later. Rachel playing Grace and Jim playing Sister Katie for most of the episode. Oh, God, John. All right, most of the story. Best case scenario, they'll both be your for later questions. Let's see what happens. Mike brought a wine. Do we want to, like, toast around? Yeah, I'd watch Sin's in. Oh, absolutely. I'm all about the wine. It's tradition. So, before we start it into the questions, Michael brought a bottle of wine, it is... Let's take a picture of it. Absolutely. What's it called? Yeah, that's right. The last time we brought meat, wasn't it? Yeah, Sin's in. Sin's in. This is a red thing. I would assume nothing more of you, Mike. This man is born a king with plants. Mike? Well, you're not lying. Holy cow. I saw that. Is there a goat fucker in there? It looks more like a plant fucker. Don't have goat. He's taking out a treat. Wow. It's like he's drinking out of, like, a elk's horn or something. Yeah. Or a bouquet or something like that. Or bouquet? I mean, he's naked, but he's just drinking upside down. It's foreplay. Is that, like, a reverse 16-digit seat? He's authorized to be... He's not me. I haven't seen the picture yet, but... It's kind of hard to figure somewhere. Why do you know that, though? I'm waiting. He's like, "Are you just thinking of the law school up for cutting out the numbers?" So it's called "sin-sin." Which is a red. That sort of reminds me of when I was staple to a tree. Ooh, there you go. Oh, yeah. Chew. Yeah. Yeah. It looks like some type of... ...for waiting is going on with between the individual... He certainly is cupping it in a way that suggests that. I think you guys are all playing in your own little reed into this. Oh, cinema. Let's get porn. All right. Did you say porn? Right. No. You definitely said, "By the way, I've seen you're bringing this in on your own." I didn't say that. Have you seen any of the episodes of the Doctor Strange and Mr. Joe? No, I have not, but I really anticipate watching it. Is they even good? I haven't watched them yet, either. Okay. I'm interested in seeing it, but I'm probably going to binge-watch it when it goes in that... That's kind of what I was doing for as well. What do you call? It's a mini-series based on a book called Doctor Strange and Mr... Mr. Strange and Dr. Norrell? No. Mr. Dr. Clay. I've heard of that book. Can you miss Doctor Strange and Mr. Norrell? I think it was. The Strange case of? No. Something like that. Couldn't you start with something or was it just the... What author is this? Can't even rename. Can't even rename either. It's like during the Victorian era. It was a Victorian? I would say. Yeah. It's not as real and it just is controlled or... It's the story of two wizards in England who have very different styles about what magic is. And it's a very good book. Okay. Thank you. I saw it in the library. I saw it. All right. Borders when you had a borders ed. And actually, they're a trail of the... The Fairyland or the Feywild or whatever it was. I thought... Beautiful. Just awesome. She did a very good job with that. Oh. It's official. It's official. All right. I'll suffer this. All right. Did you just lose one? What are we not having on? It might get disrespected again. Okay. No, he's fine. There's seven of us. Bob. Oh, right. Just trip from the bottle. I take four responsibility. I apparently did not count myself. Well, that's just selfless. That's what J is. Here's to another adventure. So lose. Over what we hit. Episode 200. During this story. Yeah. We're up to two... Two hundred and thirty-five. Two hundred and thirty-five. That's what we made to run this story. And another story. I think this is our... That's coming up like... Five years. Wow. Let the sin begin. Fucking in. And to our listeners as well. I love a good red zen. A little warmer. Yeah. Is this anything like a good red zen? I would say something. I don't drink wine all that often. I mean, I'm not a wine snob, but it's for its imagination. That's a good... Obsertive. It's lasset. Okay. Never mind. Let's move on. Okay. So to the feedback. From our listeners. I think it's going to be drunk feedback. Our first bit of feedback is from Jason M. What do you, Scott and Tom, think about GM's refreshing players on details their characters would know. You seem to both have a history of stuff like that since you have campaigns where not much in character time goes by, but when years go by in real life so people might forget important details. You want to start that one, Tom? Sure. I think it's important and I think it's twofold. One is like Jason mentioned. The players have a real life that they have to go about throughout the week and they might forget things that happened. So a little refresher on what their character would know is useful. The other one is that it's often helpful for the players to listen to. What the GM determined should be highlighted because that sometimes gives a hint to the players on... Right. ...important information that they might not have thought was as important, but if the GM is mentioning it or the storyteller is mentioning it again. Sure. Okay. Apparently it's pretty important. I should pay a little attention to that. Is that too much metagaming or is it just enough metagaming to make the story interesting? It depends on the style and the... I think the players are still... ...the real skill of the GM. The frequency as well. If you're doing it all the time then you're probably pushing your story down their throats or your version of their story down your throat. So we've done somewhat sparingly and I think it can be an effective tool as well. Like you said, it kind of accentuates like, okay guys, so this is, if you remember, any kind of like package it in a way where you try to get them to see what's important. And of course there's Tom Wellnose and Mike and Michael. And when I was here who's GM, they're studying storytelling. Sometimes it goes right over the player's head. So even when you articulate it, it doesn't quite strike home and they focus on what they think is important. But you try and I think you try to be subtle. And again, I think you've been a good point Tom where it really depends on the skill of kind of how you play it back to them. As to how effective it can be. Because something can be over, you can over indulge it, you can over use it. And I think that's... As you guys remember, you were heading north. North. North. North. You. Right, remember? Right. So yeah, I mean interesting question about that use. And he is right. I mean, it's interesting because a lot of times it does go by at the table. Like we all are adults and we all have various jobs or children or spousal responsibilities so it's not every week that we can get together. And it's easy to forget the fine details of what happened last time and right things fell through. Plus I occasionally like not necessarily in the beginning where he's saying, you know, do what happened last week type thing. But when playing, I like to occasionally give a player more information than they know personally but a character of their type would know. Correct. For instance, Michael Clay or a soldier. Yeah, I mean you're not going to know about ammunition. You're not going to know about weapons in real life because... I felt like I'm a programmer. That's why I felt like I came up a lot in this particular story because we were back in 1935. There was a lot of, but I'm a cult or I grew up in Cleveland or I'm a military guy with a gun. Or I'm an FBI agent. I should know at least a little bit about handguns or whatever the case might be. By all means, I mean it's all about the story and moving it forward and hopefully everyone has a decent time. I think a few times Grace was like, I know this building because I've been here before. Right, yeah, give me some details on it. Right. Okay, great question Jason. Moving on to Christopher F. I like how I'm a sheet of paper. You actually have a little picture of Christopher F like his little phone. I just literally copy and paste it from first book. And then I said, well normally I would put it into no pad first and it would strip out all the extra stuff. Right. That's right. I just want to point this out. It's surprisingly how large a number of rainbow background listeners we have on Facebook are meaning that's cool. Liberal and in my mind progressive before we're thinking. Excellent. Christopher F. said, what happened in Scott's childhood that made him hate his players so much? Did they steal his tricycle? Did a player give him a wedgie? Did he know this is a vicious cycle that only he can break? To be read white heartedly with a smile tongue. For the listener, the eldest of the brothers, which is Michael, was shaking his head to yes to all those questions. Right. He's the youngest child in his family. I wasn't shaking. He said yes to all those. He's shaking. Not yet. Notting. Right. I was the youngest of six but. I'd like to point out that you spent most of your youth without your own bedroom. There were a few occasions that the father of us all go to your bedroom and you said I don't have one. Go to bed. Go to your wife. Yes. He was still a hard child. But I will say the scars still linger. In a non-lighthearted response to Christopher F, I actually have wonderful memories of childhood. Even though I was the youngest of six, both my brothers, who were, you know what, Tom? Five years? Michael? Thirteen? Michael, in some sense, was really like a second father because he was so much older than me growing up. And Tom was a great brother to have. The sisters on the other end. No, I'm just kidding. But overall, I really didn't have a great childhood. And I do not know where my darkness comes from. I had started working at a place as a programmer in which Michael was working at. And the guy who interviewed me said, "Your brother works here." Which, of course, I knew, you know. But, you know, shit, he didn't really. But he said, "Is that going to be a problem?" And I was like, "Why would that be a problem?" And he's like, "Well, occasionally with siblings, brothers, they might argue there might be animosity. It might be problematic." And I'm like, "Could God know?" And I cannot. And I told him this. I cannot think of it in a time that Michael and I ever had an argument. And I don't know that I still remember a time that you and I actually had an argument. It was kind of weird. It was kind of weird. And he just told me, "My brother." That is possible. But I was being 100% truthful. I do not remember. 'Cause truthfully, our age differences was pretty big. And it's not huge. Well, wait, are you guys, you're what? So many years. Eight years apart? Yeah. Right. I could have been the annoying younger brother that wanted to hang around, but I wasn't. And in fact, sometimes they brought me along when I was a candidate at the one time. I think it was like 10. Oh. And you guys were 18 and 19, and Bob's like, "No, come here, go ahead." And I had a great time, but I didn't ask. You guys invited me along. So he's my skylight, I guess. You guys never... We are a slurf fighter. I know what magic you guys have. Okay. Sorry. We don't hate each other. I've never gotten into a fight in my life. Okay. 'Cause you don't... Argyed all the time with my brother drawing up over two years apart. No, I'm talking physical... Never. In case you bought... I honestly can't remember a verbal argument. But we have a great relationship now. I mean, we grew out of it. Right. But we still... Grout of your relationship? No. No, we... Yeah. I'm out of the argument phase. That's a pretty typical... And it's pretty typical for... But usually, siblings are so close and... Yes. To have that. I hate you, I hate you, I hate you. Well, you're my best friend. You know what I hate, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah. You're the wrong way as you're growing up, which is... However... To this day, he's one of a very few number of people who can make me extremely angry very quickly. He knows exactly what buttons and switches to... Right. All right. That's a great question. Thank you. Thank you very much, Christopher. I mean, it was a fun question, which is some pretty interesting feedback. The next question is from Argy. Jay. And son of a bitch, he doesn't have drive in this entire thing. Uh-oh. This might be my regular question, but I feel I must have asked this or something similar before. But here goes. Scott, what didn't go the way you planned and why? How did you make a saving throw for it? Players. What took you by surprise this adventure? Also, what would you have done differently now that all is said and done? How are players first? Because I'm talking about... What took you by surprise and what would you do differently? Can we change it or what didn't take us? Yeah. It would be much shorter answer. Right. Yeah. Probably. Nothing. Did anything take you guys by surprise. Going back in time, the way we did. So, when you were fleeing from the chagrin homestead... That's a cool starting spot. Yeah. Because that took me by surprise. I thought we were just going to cut right to the home base and everyone's rested and healed. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Sorry to interrupt. So, that surprised you. Receiving the telegram from Bunery Hooks caught me by surprise because at least before you could say, okay, he's a hacker and there's modern technology that can be hacked. And now he's hacking time and space and getting telegrams to us. And as an extension of that, when we texted him, when we went back from Future's Ghosts. And he was just like... I watched it. I didn't contact you. Yeah. What is your take on that? He clearly hacked the time machine and sent it back after we told him where we were. Well, I mean, there's a couple theories. Either he has either foreknowledge of what we've done because our present is his past. So, our exploits are written about? So, he knows or can somehow react. He has the ability to communicate with us through various time frames so I don't quite understand that. And also the ability that it seemed to happen with people that he or he or she... We thought there was two entities doing that. He sent one telegraph. And then other people were sending messages on trays and shit. Yeah. And I think that ended up being the... Or in person. Or the one... The one at the... Not down the door. Okay. I want to make a point about the time stream, how the time travel seems to work in this world. When we went back and talked to Bunery Hex, he said that six days have passed. We spent six days in the past. They seem to be parallel... He said something along those lines. I don't know if it was six. But it was the same number of days. There we go. The time stream seemed to be running in parallel lockstep. Now, if future binary hex talking to our effectively passed past selves... I don't know how to do that. Maybe it's a different... Maybe binary hex has been an entity since that age. That would surprise me. Things we just... But how's in the future one not know what the past one has done? Maybe it's a name... It's a different type of strawberries. It has to be. It doesn't look like that. It doesn't look like that. That was the main thing I was going to bring up. Well, that skyscrapers didn't exist in our story. I suggest that we're in some alternate world because it's none of our history. I'm not understanding of time travel. The theoretical time travel. When you head to the past, it veers off in a different direction from where your future was. You create a new brand. You create a new brand. No, this place was already different. So we went to one that separated a while back. And separated from that one again. But I would argue that Gretz created this brand earlier. Right? That's possible. By sending the 12th through. If time travel to the past is impossible, so obviously this is just... Oh, shut up. Why is the game? You're here. Well, that assumes that the ability to create a time machine didn't exist in the past. I've read books about this, so go ahead. Let's talk. Are you a red wine fan? You're not. I don't like wine. I just take wine. It's a sipping thing. I know. I don't like it. I don't like sipping it. I just want to go out of the way. If you try anything besides red... I guess not. A little with maniac regs wedding. I promise. Take the knife away from his stroke. He doesn't have to drink anymore. A reason. A reason. A celebratory. No, it could be either. It had the word sin in it. It usually is the... And I have the alcohols of sin. Just pick anyone. Yeah. Thank you for red, myself. It tends not to be as sweet as the white, the reds. On an average. You certainly can have exceptions. And the red goes great with ham. What was the question? Ham. The question was... I don't know why. What took you by surprise? And what would you have done differently? So you've got some surprise thrown out there. Does anyone else get surprised by anything? Oh my god. Yes? You said Michael? Yeah, virtually everything. Right. Yeah. So for Ethan... I mean, not for Ethan, your character. I think he's talking more from a player standpoint where... Like, how to set... He thought you were going to start off back at the safe house in 2011 with the whole chagrin thing done. But there you were, all of a sudden driving down a country road or who they were, driving down a country road with sirens going off and in a police chase off. Well, everyone else had context and I didn't. So I think I was legitimately surprised by everything. Right. I was surprised that I was expecting something else. I just didn't know what to expect. Right. You were at disadvantage. As I've said before, this is my fourth new system. Yes. You haven't ever played one twice, I think. C&D is pretty similar. Yeah, this one is the Andy before. You see, the only one I've ever played. Chew before. It seemed like you had something either that surprised you or you would do different. I think Chew has been surprised since the farmstead is the... Quite tired of it. The zombies, the vampires. Right. The flashbacks. What was the first adventure like that it wasn't so crazy magical? Oh, no, it was magical, but... But it was just bees. Yeah, it was just a lot happening in a short period. There were pocket universes in that one, too. We were in a weird place. That's a headshot. Yeah, are you sure Chew has never not been surprised? Never. So an odd way of asking that question. No. Because you made it sound like... It was fine Chew was not surprised. Right. Because you made it sound like the second we went to chagrin, everything went crazy, but apparently it was always crazy. No. It was pretty fun. It was extremely crazy. Yeah. I think with... I have the zombies thrown in. Yeah. And the vampire. The crazy guy shooting at the spirits. He had the spirits coming out. And then the black ops. Yeah. There's a lot of shit to go down in one night. In one night. And then it was shitlock took place over weeks. The theater demons took place over weeks. Yeah. Shitlock took place over weeks as you investigated a series of happenings in Ohio City. And there really was, as far as the supernatural went, especially since it was the first story, I pulled back a lot. There was a couple of instances until the grand finale of out and out where you saw supernatural. Like, I think your character, Jay was actually scarred when Jay was playing Tony Bonadillo at the time. And he tackled that. The dude who was having the shitlock and reading Jacobs, I think. And he spun into a whirlwind of bees. And that was like the very first supernatural thing that really happened. And from there you had some other things. A lot of it was explainable in some sense or another sense of that's just weird, that's just strange. Yeah. But when you got to that fire instead, man, I mean, that was a lot of shit in a two hour period. And then after that, that night going back in time. And you go back in time. And alternatively within a couple of days, you're a whole world. You turn the fight back. To the shattered man, to the bishop, to getting stapled to a tree. Right. With a bad tree. Dying. It's been a rough week. It has been a rough week. What would you have done differently? I think it's a really interesting question by Ari in a sense that if you could go back. It implies we had a choice. No. That's what it is. It does. But it does. I mean, would you have pursued the shattered man more? Would you have done anything differently? And it looks like can you raise your hand, Jay? Yeah. Okay. I think everyone can agree. Changed a lot of my aspirations, especially the long term ones. It's been something that I knew was within the scope of our bridge. I do not like that game mechanic at all. The aspirations? Yeah, really. Absolutely do not like that. Okay. Do not like aspirations. Do not like aspirations. Anyone. You want to change. I threw a shit fit a couple of times you asked me a little my aspirations. Or I do not like aspirations. Aspirations not like Thomas? I'm pretty neutral. I understand why people dislike him. I do not like me too bad. Tom? I understand the concept of him. And it does. Well, actually, maybe it's conditional because it kind of feeds into the question of what I do different. And it's also a slice of a bigger issue than I think we have. Which is what I'd like to do different is I want to solve one of the threads before we move on to the next one. And I think the reason being is that we have been collecting clues and issues and mysteries since shit luck. And we are kind of, I feel, groaning under the weight of all these different directions. And in fact, in this chapter, we finally got our first tangible clue about what we started in shit luck. Which to me, I wanted to pull the rope on the train, stop everything and say wait a second. Right. Holy cow. Well, that was Grace said that she had sent Valkyrie members back through time. Right. And I feel that, well, I certainly like that you have options and we have the ability to go in directions. We need to kind of get some of this stuff off our plate. And maybe not even resolve, but at least off our plate so then we can handle or be free to handle some of these new paths. Right. Because I really got bent out of shape. It's like the shattered man just was such a big part, a big slice of this pie. And then all of a sudden, I feel like we just completely dropped him or he somehow became a non threat when he had been the major threat to go to the white bishop as a bigger threat. And it's almost like, okay, we're leaving a bad guy behind us and we're rushing to face a guy who apparently was even worse. I just, I never, we were never done and we were never finished. Right. We're never done with that. Right. You didn't resolve that issue. And maybe that's what I, like, what I would like to go back and say, let's fix some of these things or at least resolve them first. So then we are clear to understandable. Yeah. That's hard. We weren't explaining the rationale for why we went after the shattered man. Was that we knew he was being summoned by the white bishop. White bishop. And we didn't want him to be able to report back that he had failed. That there were people who knew what he was doing. I understand that that's what happened. But it was extended. It was a part of our, we want the shattered man to stop being summoned. Let's go after the bishop. He's the guy who knows how. After that. Nobody knows how. We can hide the knowledge. Well, it's not exactly like we went after the white bishop. He showed up in our fucking hotel room. We were talking about going after the white bishop. And then he was like, oh you, I heard my name. Imagine telling a story though, like, I'm going to give you a rock to carry around. And sooner or later we're going to resolve this and then you can put it down and carry on with your journey. But if I keep on handing you different rocks, you're carrying this bundle that's weighing you down and just causing the pace to slow down. All right, choice is to slow down. To consider how it fits into every single puzzle. No, but. No, I'm not, I'm not trying to get into an article. Because when we get into a piece of saying that. We have to see which one it fits into. I'm just saying that, and actually maybe because maybe, let's see, there's only Bob Tom and myself who have information from the first episode. So it's like, when these clues are coming out, it's like wait a second. Yeah, and Jim, you guys, maybe that wasn't significant because you weren't a part of that story. But I'm just like, well that, hey, finally we got something, we got a lead here. I forgot we were here for a reason. Yeah. That was the final missing members of Tesla. Yeah. And it's like, wait a second. And I think it goes back to the farmstead. We were just throwing into that. Okay, you're here. You're not sure why. And, you know, you're, you're stuck in this, this combat. And it just felt like, you know, I want to come back to this. And, but then I'm being yelled at for not moving fast enough. So like, whatever. Right. But that would be one thing you would change. Yeah. You could. I'm sorry. You try to focus on resolving the shadow man without the white bishop. Well, again, I want to juggle so much because I don't know if you can. That you can. Right. Because for one thing, like, was mentioned, we started in chagrin, which in game time was how long ago? Six days. Stays apparently. Mm hmm. I don't think Jay slept in those six days. That we did. I went to that shitty hotel. I think it has been fucking virtually nonstop. But it has been nonstop. There's been very little sleep. And very little. And the option as far as what we want to do hasn't really been up to us. And I think what Mike was saying was a very valid point, which is, in a situation where we're playing that's stretching over now, five years, that some of the finer details of the mystery can get lost easily. Absolutely. And it's going back to the original question that was asked about recaps and stuff. It's vitally important. When I was running Dresden, when I wrote mysteries, I stripped the shit out of them down to the bare bones and kept them as simplistic as possible because of that thing that happens when you're playing in a situation where you meet once a week is that the players don't remember all the details. So you've got to make it pretty simplistic. And this story isn't simplistic. There's a lot of already layered onion. And sometimes it takes a long time to get to the satisfaction of finding, oh, this piece fits here in the puzzle. Yes. And to be fair, to Mike, that's where the storyteller should come in. And where I felt that I lost my forward motion, some of my momentum, is that I could have focused you guys in on what I thought was important. Coming off a Dresden game, I was trying to be a little bit more open and say, okay, well, you can go chase the shed or ban any one. Okay. You want it. There was three points. You could chase the shed event. You could try to figure out what was going on with that telegram from binary hex. Or you could eventually find out about the white bishop and kind of pursue that angle. And, of course, the obvious one, how the fuck did we get back? And I think that was a little bit too much on your plates. And I think that this particular episode, although it was a bridge episode, and that's always a dangerous episode whenever you're going to have a bridge. But I tried to make it a little too much like Dresden in the sense of here's some options. Go play. Go do what you want to do. And you guys didn't actually feel that way. You felt like you had to follow. I was going to say it's a pity that Rachel isn't here because we can ask her this question. She shows up in the second half. But I guarantee you, she did not feel that this adventure was that. And I don't understand what you're saying that you're trying to make. What I'm saying is I failed more player narrative driven. Right. I think I failed in that by trying to open it up to player narrative and yet having some very serious tension within the group, it wasn't the right combination. It needed to be a world of darkness story that was streamlined and had a point A to point Z. And I'm glad a lot of listeners said they enjoyed it and they listened to it. But as any author of any story or any, you know, and this is a story and author is being used kind of freely here. But the idea is I authored this story and I'm not happy with it. I would go back and I would change things in the sense of I would take away some of the new mechanics. I would definitely have streamlined some of your choices that you realized that things were kind of tied in in a certain way. And if you follow that thread without getting distracted. But you live and you learn. And even though I've been doing this for a very long time, I make mistakes too. And I feel like I didn't have the proper alchemy of ingredients in this story. I added a little too much freedom in my own eyes. But obviously didn't translate in some cases to you guys feeling you had the freedom to do anything. But I gave you too many choices in the sense that there was too many threads to follow. And as any good role players are, you want to solve the mystery and you want to solve all those threads. And they were obvious threads. It wasn't like it was some little small herring that you could go chase if you wanted to. It was who the hell sent us that telegram? That's kind of important. You know what I wanted to do was buy an airy hex. What is he in 1935 or is she in 1935? And Rachel, how did you send us here? There were just four really major things that were going on. And I think it was too much with new mechanics, new players. And for me to drive the story forward the way I normally do with the first two stories that made them a little bit more memorable. In my eyes. And maybe as your eyes. Was it new mechanics or was it the system? I'm not a big fan. Right. And I don't know darkness. Yeah, I would like to, and we probably should talk about that just briefly. Ari, thank you very much for the question. I think we answered that pretty well. I didn't answer the word what curveballs did you throw me, but there'll be plenty of time to answer that throughout this session. I have to say that when you said that, that you're not a fan of the system and it's like the complexity of it or to me, I guess I'm sure our listeners can give in and our players as well. I feel like it's not any more complex than Dresden. You have an attribute, you have a skill. You add them together, you get plus if the situation is advantageous, you get a minus that's not, you roll your dice. You need one success. I just look at the weight of the books involved. Right. So there's lots of different options that you can choose and that certainly is the case. But I actually find the magic system of Dresden more daunting, but again, maybe it's because I know the system. So what about that particular setup of an attribute in a skill and make your role? Is that something you didn't like or is that because it doesn't like you like the system all that much? Again, I don't see it as being more complex than the others. Yeah, no, I guess at the end, I got to get the hang of combining for a role. There are exceptions to those rules that sometimes you add two attributes together. Right. Whits plus composure for perception. Different ways to calculate armor, I think, defense involved two stats as well. Or maybe not. Whatever the case, exceptions are confusing. And then there's this many successes versus one success versus sure. Success versus a spell and what happens if you succeed and whatever. Do you know what a chance die is? Where what going was? Yeah, it would happen if you were really watched. Yeah, the one vertical failure kind of threw me off a little bit with the rule changes there. Like, I'm not sure how wounded I am. Yeah, there's like, I'm not clear on how many different stats damage there are. Well, they're still bashing, but yeah. I'm just saying there's a totally different systems out there, more modern stuff that I would like to see put in play. Having seen how this works and not liking it. Maybe I can give it a sure chance. Well, maybe saying there's a lot of others. Time and I were talking about some other systems that we'd like to try not necessarily place them. Right. Nice black agents. What I want to suggest is maybe it's not necessarily the mechanics as so much as how the mechanics, well, let's see if I can put this clearly. Great is heavily driven by your skills. The dice is a very small modifier. And I know we've had listeners that said their group hated that. Right. I love that. That the skill that my character has is going to be a big part in determining whether he's successful with doing the skill that he's supposed to be good at. Did you not feel good with your rifle though and your guns? In the last couple of weeks of the scenario I was rolling 15 dice and I'd be fucking lucky if I'd get a single success. And something that should have, and other times when I roll 15 I get 10 successes. That's wonderful. We talked a lot about that when we talked about die 20. Exactly. Please don't mistake in the fact that I love a dipole system over a die 20. Any day of the week. Any day of the week. It definitely has its advantage. And still it's such a huge random factor where if I have a fake skill and that skill is at 5 I'm plus or minus 2 at most. My skill is going to be a determining factor. Now that's a whole different way of doing a game. And I don't know if that's what Mike is referring to. That it isn't just that the mechanics are confusing or difficult. But that he doesn't like how they fit the game. I don't know. That's much to Michael's. I think the die part is, has ever been a game that we've all really, really enjoyed the die roll? It hurts. It was awesome. I don't think all of us would agree but I think majority of us would because I remember one of the complaints about fate. The very first story that you told delivery was how many... Epic. How many epic successes can you have in one story? So it seems like dice rolls for whatever detriment always seems to be new. In the end we beat that die 20 thing. Yeah. World of Darkness has, like you said, you're rolling 12 dice and you got two successes. It's fairly friendly. You need an 8, 9 or 10. No, like I said, Jay was off and on. The randomness is a factor because your skills do give you a big dice pool but it doesn't guarantee that you're going to actually roll a success. And again, is that life? Can you have an excessive amount of skill and still fail? Obviously. Of course. Obviously. As long as it's not happening with the frequency that was happening in New Manira, which I think that was one of the big drawbacks. But I think I will absolutely agree is one of the things I actually hate about the World of Darkness and it really pisses me off right now is they're fixing it but it's not yet. There's not just one book, like a chord book. There's the blue book and then there's the new rules that are on top of the chord book and then there's the splat books for everybody. So I get your idea behind the volume of everything Michael. If you just buy all their products then you'll have all of them. But one of the really annoying things is that they can't put the God machine chronicles, which is basically World of Darkness 2.5. The blue book is 2.0. So it was this idea of let's add aspects on and let's add all these different things for other systems that are kind of in Vogue right now. We try to make the system a little bit more up to date and try to modernize it. But let's not do an entire book. We're just going to tell you what's different. Yeah, this is kind of laid on top. So this changed on page 42 and this changed on page 46. Which is great if you're intimately familiar with a system all later. And if we're playing five different systems, none of them can really give you the original book on page 47 and then see the exceptions that are on this book over here. Yeah, because I'm not going to give you the whole rule. I might tell you what changed in the rule. So they're actually putting out a 2.5 or whatever the hell they're calling it. They're putting out a natural core book that will be it. I don't know that will solve any of the problems or make anything better, but that's something. But yeah, I mean that's definite. Well, I think I tried to explain Michael's issues with World of Darkness. And you did. Perhaps we should ask Michael what his problems were. I do. Yeah, I'm not really clear on exactly what it is other than the system. You talked about dice and I didn't like the Die 20 at all in Numenara. But I enjoyed Numenara much more as a game system than I did this. So I don't know because it was new, it was all in one place maybe. All the rules. You talked about the number of books and the changes and looking, not being able to go and find an answer in one place or not knowing where to start. Right. It could just be daunting and pressing in books I have to look through to get this one. Starting with four or five character sheets, I thought was ridiculous. Yeah, particularly for Numenara, when you sat down and said, "What kind of character can I make?" They had, "I'm a blank that blanks and blanks." And there was a list you could pick. For this, if you want to find out all your options, you have to read 24 books. Yeah, because they did. I mean, my compact, it's in Hunter, but there are new merits that I could buy in every fucking splat book. Right. And... I was in the core book, but my profession was outdoorsman. And that was in Hunter's. It was some subset. I guess your professor will ask him. Yes. I guess if you look at it, it's not particularly surprising that I had a hard time with the system given all the limitations. Right now. If you know the system intimately, or if you've played it for years, coming in cold is a whole other thing. If we have the most friendly system to do that with. If we haven't talked about it yet, their index and reference to find information is horrible. It is a joke that you'd have an index because it's worthless. Or even trying to figure out the crunch out of all the fluff and all the story that they build into it, that you almost have to interpret the role that you're looking for. The spirit of the role. I think it was the whole package of playing a dungeon world where you could quickly get up to speed. It's all one sheet. You hit your hand with the fucking rules of a dungeon world. It takes you an hour to do your character thoroughly and get started playing. Yeah, but it's also a fundamental different design. Oh, absolutely. And then you go and then you want to dress in fate, which is the characters have so much fucking power. And then, yeah. And then to the opposite of both of those in the world of darkness. It's not my cup of tea. Let's put it that way. Complex weakness. Complex weakness? Yeah. Okay. It's the rules of the world of darkness. Well, horror game. Here's a question from Barbara F. Really? Oh, well. Yeah. Sort of female fan. We have some female fan. So your wife? Her years? Mother? Go on that one. I don't know how I forgot. I forgot. Come home. Stop playing this game. Where the hell are you? Barbara asks for the new players, which will ask Rachel when she's here for our next session, hopefully. How does world of darkness system compare to the Dresden version of fate? And obviously you covered that. I kind of talked about that. Right. That you enjoyed. But I guess the question I would ask on Barbara's behalf is, is Dresden in fate your favorite system we've played so far? Or would that have been new menera or would that have been dungeon world or would that have been, well certainly not the world of darkness based on your response so far? Right. Yeah. I don't know what the favorite is. It's one of those three. It is not world of darkness. Right. I could play any of the other three instead of world of darkness. I guess that would be last on my list. I don't really know. Dungeon world does things easily and it's fun. I think it's a great con game. You know. Play at the conference. I'm not sure that it has long term story. If it's a player campaign model. All right. And there's a strength and weaknesses to the other three. But I think I'm going to be clear with my. Yeah. What's your favorite is? What's your viewpoint is? Right. Absolutely. And then Barbara has a question for the rest of the players around the table. Which is, how do the repeat players compare this adventure to sugar in chip luck? So starting with, let's go with John on my left. This particular story, the sin eater. Did you like that more than sugar in? Because you weren't here for shit luck. Either was Thomas. But which story did you prefer playing in this particular chronicle? It may be a brief blurb as to why for her as well. There was a lot more interpersonal interaction. Aside from flashbacks than there was in sugar in. And that's a good thing or a. I think so. But right. I got kind of drained towards the end. Right. But wanting it to reach its climax. I was dying for months. Oh. Right. Let me tell you. In real life. Right. Okay. That happened to Thomas in the previous one. If you had to give a definitive answer one or the other. Which one was the more preferable story for you? As your character. And you as a player. I don't know. I never rank things like that. I don't know how people do. It's tiring when people do all the time. Mark, what's your favorite book? What's your favorite movie? What's your favorite? Right. So, okay. I guess it would be fair to say that there were things about this story that you enjoyed. Yeah. Or the interpersonal. I would be better to say if you were given the choice to play one or the other. Which would you prefer? No. No. It would make it easier for it. Thomas? I like both of them in their own ways. They both had problems. Towards the end of the Senator we ended up kind of scrambling around trying to figure out what we were supposed to be doing. And like you said, it was a combination of things. You tried to give us more freedom. And we weren't thinking in that mode. Because we're used to playing World of Darkness. Right. Yeah. Exactly. So, we got to thinking in a certain way and we acted like we do in World of Darkness. Which is we try to figure out what's going on in one direction. And it seemed like, I was looking at it in a very broad spectrum. Where the shattered man was certainly a problem. And then we found that he was probably being caused by the white bishop. So it seemed like the problems flowed together. So I didn't have a problem going out to check the white bishop. Right. And then we kind of faltered at the end while we were trying to recover from being ghosts and everything. But honestly, I can't say it was worse than Shagrin. Right. Because right now I'm looking at Shagrin with rose tinted glasses. Because I can't remember what it was like sitting there for four months leading out. Right. All we do is talk about all the cool things that happen in the trailer. And blah, blah, blah. But you said Shagrin were definitely awesome. Right. And yeah, I'm having the same problem, John's having. But I'm trying to be more articulate about it. I certainly enjoyed parts of, that wasn't an insult to you. No. I certainly enjoyed parts of Sineadir because I got to showcase my character more with my abilities and how he would have. Especially you enjoyed the scene. Spiritual. And that's why by a snake I forgot to mention that. Right. The heroine and the cigarette scene. That was good. I enjoyed that. And there was more, well there was more opportunity for me to play my character than I was in Shagrin. Right. And Shagrin held itself together better because you knew how focused it would be. It was streamlined. You were moving forward the entire time towards a destination which was the house. Yeah. With rose tinted glasses I'd say Shagrin was better. Sure. But if I remembered every aspect of it, I'd probably say that I enjoyed the Sineadir better. Okay. Bob? He was only in two. He wasn't in the first one either, was he? Yeah. He was not. I've been in it for the long haul. Yeah. She was there. I have years. You're a vampire? Do I get a pen? I'm going to have to say shit luck. The very first one, right? Yeah. Right. And you're the first one to actually answer that question of all three stories because of the Thomas and John were just the last two. Yeah. I think it was slower paced so I got to use my abilities a little bit more I think. So by slower pace you mean it was more investigative? Yeah. I think we had more time to kind of stop and examine things. And your character is an investigator for sure. What was the player number for the first one? The number of players. Ryan. But well Ryan cut out like Tom said, Ryan cut out pretty quick. So if we don't count him. What about Greg? Do we count him? I think he was there probably for a good 2/3 of the episodes. Greg, do you know? Jim. Jim. So one less than we had in Chagrin. It went up slowly. 678? Yeah. Okay. So 6 for that. Would you rail it? No, it's interesting. Yeah. It's interesting point. So for you shit luck because there was more chances to highlight the investigation and Chagrin certainly felt like you were being. I think Chagrin and this most recent one kind of ran together a little bit just because of the whole timeline. I think we had like three months between shit luck and Chagrin, right? The story itself took several weeks and then there was a gap of six months before we started. Right. So we got time to kind of get our shit together to kind of figure out what exactly we wanted to do. And with this most recent one it seemed like there's a bunch of things kind of throwing our way. Right. We've got this binary hex now. The white bishop. I'm not sure if that's been taking care of that all. I wasn't here for the last episode. Right. That's right. I don't know. No. Okay. I think it's clear that chapter four is going to be a similar situation where there's no time in between because I don't think there can be given where we left it. If anything, at least... At least he's right below us. I kind of... Oh, no, no. I want to interject really quickly here. That might be a slight misconception, just slight in the sense that he actually was walking towards where you guys were hiding. There was footballs from behind of someone chasing him. And they said that the first torso murder had occurred. They found the lady of the lake is what the voice said. And he said it's been on lines of oh, so it's begun. And then he walked away so the torso murders have started. And the fourth story without giving away huge spoilers, the torso murders were horrific murders that took place in the 1930s in Cleveland. Where 12 individuals were killed and dismembered and they never found the killer. The fourth story will obviously have that as a center point. So I think that there was time between the murders. So depending on how you guys do and trying to thwart it or stop it or encourage it, it all depends on what you think is the way to go about these murders occurring. There could be actual time to sit back and investigate. And I think it'll have a different feel than the last two stories I've had, which have been a little bit more, you know, go, go, go, go, go. Even though they may enter a bit. So anyway, so I just wanted to throw it out there. The white bishop is not an issue as far as threatening you right at the second. He has moved away in pursuit of the first of the torso murders. Yeah, I think in a flashback in chagrin, we addressed some of the torso murders. Right, we were in a museum. Yeah, there's a museum show facing this. What the heads were missing? The heads were missing. Do you steal that head? No, it was missing. It was stolen and you were thinking it was Silver Bell's father who had taken it. Who had it? Oh, okay. Right. The head that she was carrying around. The teddy bear? Well, it was a big doll. It was a little teddy bear. Mike and Michael Clay, favored of the three stories. Which one would that be and why? I think chagrin was very interesting. Just personally, I spent the entire time bleeding. You did as a character. Yeah. You found the story itself interesting. The storming of the farmhouse, the interaction with Velkery, the trying to figure out what the hell was going on. I mean, it had a lot of the flashbacks were really interesting, to be honest. I am relieved Michael Clay did not have one. Right. Because I was very impressed and also choose backstory and flashback I hold in my list of terrifying media. You know, there's a couple episodes. There's an episode of X-Files and there's like Exorcist. And then there's that flashback of choose that I think of myself as stuff that I've read or media have consumed. That I don't ever want to hear or see again. Right. That was one of them. Yeah. It is childhood. In a positive, in a sense, but yeah, it was cool. It was striking. You don't need to revisit this. I have no desire or need to revisit it. I liked, I think, shit luck more because I think we were, as a group, focused on a particular adversary. Right. Whereas, like I mentioned before, I think we have so many irons in the fire right now. I don't know where to be. Which is why I think the four-story action might appeal to both you and Bob. In a sense that there's a serial killer and there's an investigation and it should be, I think, a bit more streamlined. But you never know until you get in play. I also feel like in, so shit luck for you before you continue on? Yes, shit luck. I feel in Sin Eater that we were always rushing to catch up and that our choices really didn't dictate action. Or we were always either reacting or trying to adjust to forces that were, I don't know how to say it, not outside of control. I mean, Grace was involved in a lot of them, although it's kind of unfair to even say this because I don't know how much of it was her role playing or your direction. Right. Because she kind of played a character that is kind of a foot in both worlds here. She is a function of you as the storyteller with intimate knowledge and inside, kind of the inside track. But just to her, she was actually throwing for a loop a couple of times because she doesn't know the whole story. She knows her version of the story which is vastly different than yours, but yes. Right. But it's one of those things where it's like, okay, I don't know how to proceed with her because how much of that is, okay, she has to tell us this. Or basically, like, how it ended, I'm not particularly a fan of it because it felt like we really didn't have any input. Our actions didn't even feel like it mattered because we didn't really solve or do anything. We just found ourselves brought back together again by your agent. The only thing that succeeded was getting back to where you started in a way. Right. I can understand that. So, it just kind of like, okay, well, but then that's also, you know, you can say world of Americans. So, it is, but you want the players to enjoy the stories as well. Well, it's not just about the dark. Right. It's about the players on the table enjoying it as well. And I think, even to me, it was the week, we haven't given time a chance yet, but to me, it was also the weakest of the three stories. Okay. From my own perspective, but I won't delve into that all the time. I'll talk about it. I'll always tell you before anybody's told what I was going to say. Ooh. Almost. I'm nothing if that's derivative. How could you be derivative? You said it first. I'm going to derivative. Yes. Because you're going to edit it. That's rude. Absolutely not. Because my actual comments are similar, but not exactly the same. And I would rank them the same as I believe you did, which was one, two, and three. Shitlock, should grin. And the last one, the Sin Eater. But the reason I would rank them that way is because as a player, it felt like my options as a character within the game became more and more limited as we went along. We went from shitlock where we had days to make decisions to decide we're going to go investigate over here. We're going to go investigate over there to starting in a meteorized in the middle of a battle in Shagrin where there was still the option we could run off the field, get in our car and drive away. It might have been the illusion of an option, but it still existed. And then we get taken into the last one where we're pushed back in time. There is no exit here. Right. We're in a haunted house with all the doors locked with only one person as the key as we understand it and that being grace. That is the only way we're getting out of here. And our options are getting more and more limited as we go along. And I understand it's the horror genre, but it also, as we go along through each one of them, the tempo and pace is picked up quicker and quicker and quicker. So when we get to the very end, we're driven to the point where, like you said, Mike, we aren't in control of making any choices here. And even to the point where we're in the last few episodes where we actually said, "Don't go back to us. There's nothing we can fucking do. We're waiting for Grace to open the door." Right. We already did everything. You dialed it in until she turns the other key, the two nuclear keys for the launch codes, we're fucking going nowhere. So why are we even bothering to come to us? Right. Which was not true, but... That was a feeling. That's the feeling that you guys had, which is my fault. My fault is a storyteller for making it feel white, so desperate. Because really when I took it, like I said, the horror genre and the way you transfer that fear and dread to is limit options and limit actions and limit. But there's also the respite. There's also the rap. Yeah, it's the roller coaster ride where you're doing that slope. And that's why I clicked up the hill. Right. That's one of the ones. One was the respite, then it was run, run, run for two and three. And I think it would be really wise of me as a storyteller. You know what? What you just said, I think, is really key. No, but that breathing space. Yeah. The negative space is almost as important as the content of an image. So that the silence between notes. Yeah. It feels like, yeah, we do need a moment to stop, come together, change where nothing is so urgent. Because, and this is where, I mean, I really, we all wish Rachel were here so she could respond to some of this. Right. But some of it, I was wondering where, okay, is it a, like, is it a directive that you've given her that she just will refuse to answer any question that she deems? Or is that her? Scott is now shaking his head. Right. Right. She had no directive at all. That was her playing someone who had been in a bad situation. She had something really bad happen to her and did not have any trust to put forth and actually started withdrawing her trust. The more aggressive the people who wanted her to trust them were attempting to, but she was so afraid to put forth that trust. Again, frustrating from, probably from a lighter standpoint. Well, it wasn't just from our standpoint, it was frustrating from right away. That was one point she says, but I want Grace and Jay to like each other and it's like, I can't. Right. Jay's character would not accept the answers that she's giving. She can't give any other answers. Right. Which makes me feel like almost like this is the only door to go through. This is the only, it's a bottleneck. It's a, it's a bottleneck in a story that at one point, I'm like, okay, guess what? I can make a life here in 1935, alternate universe Earth. I will go find. As long as you have to make it with race. Right. And I will go find a young Wilson Tate and kill him because I don't want to be a part of this. And I'm going to write a sense of note to the Order of the Sword about what to do with Grace, you know, in the future. Right. So, you know, girl, she's coming up, she's very young. Right. She's like, she'll be born in this year. Right. So look out for her and take her out. And that's my job as the Order of the Scroll where I just document it. I would say the only fact to, because your timeline is cease to exist. No, no. That had to do with her playing her character the way she thought it should be played. And again, the same as me. Because you weren't, and you were playing your character the way you thought to be played. And as a storyteller, I could have interjected into that, but I think that really, that was how she wanted to play that. There have been a number of listeners who have made comments saying that they think it's unrealistic that I trust Silverbel as Jay. And I don't necessarily agree with that assessment simply because, as we've explained before, in Jay's mind, she's why we're here. The only way we're getting back is her. Now it's understood that Ethan is involved in it too. Right. That wasn't known to any major extent. But Ethan wasn't adversarial. Ethan was in the same order as Michael Clay. They spoke with each other. Michael Clay vouches for him. And the entire time, Silverbel is antagonistic. Refusing to answer questions, answering them one way and then reversing them and answering and information that comes to light later on. Right. I'm not wanting to reveal some antiques she was playing there rather than. And I guess it was Rachel playing the character, but I think she was really trying to play true to what she believed that scared 16-year-old girl would do. And that's great, but then there were times where I realized that she was the way home, but there were moments where I had true crisis where I'm like, "Okay, she is doing things that I met again. I know she's creating a healing or protective spell, but in the game, all I know is that she disappeared magically before my eyes. Or is drawing a circle and is incanting a spell after half my team have disappeared apparently through magic means." And it just felt like, "Okay, she is starting to incant a spell again, and I already don't like magic uses, but that's a whole other issue." So in the context of this situation, I'm like, "Do I shoot the wound to stop what I think might be an imminent attack?" Or what? And that's why I think I even was starting to maybe met a game a little bit where I was like, "Okay, Scott, let me use my occult. Can I detect anything that tells me that this is not destructive magic or this is not -- I think you even kind of threw me a bone where I'm like, "Okay, it's a healing or it's a protective." So that would give me something in game to hold on to say, "Okay, I'm going to take a chance and say it's going to not go my way." And even when we got to the house, she is making choices that I'm like, "Alright, well, have you just led me to my own death?" And if so, just fucking kill me already and let's get it over with so I can go home. Or it's just like, "Okay, you're doing exactly what you said you wouldn't do." And I don't want to turn this into another conflict argument, especially when the answer is always, "I'm not going to tell you, it's a secret." No, it's, "I can't tell you." "I can't tell you." "I can't tell you." "I don't know the answer." "I can't tell you." It depends on your definition of "is" is. It's like, "What?" Romulus P has a question for us, and maybe this will be, what time is it? Yeah, it's come at a minute. He pimped us on the subreddit, now ours, just a regular RPG subreddit. It was Romulus P and I was like, "I don't know any other Romulus P." Is this a new reason? Yeah, they make a thread every once in a while, and so they say, "You haven't got APs?" And they say it was like, "You have the cartoon." I was like, "That's probably him." He gives a shout out. How many Romulus's? I mean, come on. Okay, actually, I'm going to, I'll answer, Romulus is actually for me, mostly, to do a wrap up with that question, but I want to wrap up for the players with Eric Bee. How was the player's enjoyment of the game affected, positive or negative, by all of the intraparty secrets? And by that, I can only assume that he's referred mostly to Silver Bell, although there were others as well. It seems that there were more in this story than in the past ones you've done, and that's absolutely true, because we introduced a brand new character who Task Force Valkyrie was looking for as she held the key to, supposedly, to this mystery of the 12 missing agents, and obviously you wanted to go as well. So, with that being said, I'll open up the floor for players. I think we got an idea how Mike feels about... Go ahead, Mike. Negatively. It negatively impacts your enjoyment. Yes, absolutely. Okay. But then this is an old issue with me, where it's like, "Okay, well, I appreciate and understand the need for conflict and our stories. I want to be a team focusing on our threat. I don't want to descend, is she a part of the party or not?" It took us a while to even establish that. Right. So, I would say that, and not that you can't have them, not that stuff that can't be revealed, because I think everyone still has secrets and things like that, and that's cool, but I want our energies and our focus to be solving the mystery. To be going after the enemy. Right. I don't know if it necessarily fits under this category, but one thing that bothered me deeply about the secrets was that I don't think Rachel had a full understanding of her character, and there was many occasions she had to ask you questions. Right. I can't blame her if she doesn't understand how her character works or what her character knows. She's got to ask those so that she can roll play. Right. But there was more than a few occasions, and I noticed them... We had to go off the side, right? Not just that. Right. So, what are you doing on your turn, Daniel? And he would start to explain, and there's whispering in the background, and he would explain, and you'd go, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear any of that, could you do it again?" Right. And it was just... Right. Because we only have an hour, we're wasting 15, 20 minutes of you guys whispering back and forth, which has nothing that is any value to anybody except for the two of you. Right. And there's eight of us sitting around here going. Okay. Here we go. And then she gets her turn, in addition to taking our turns when that whispering's going on? Right. That was extremely frustrating for me. I think that does lean into the intraparty secrets, because obviously she had to send me text, so we had to whisper back and forth, because you could tell someone what their character's background is, but how it applies to the numerous situations that occur during a story totally different. So, there was no way for me to give her everything. She did it like we did it with John and Dresden. It was an open secret. Right. That everybody knew. And retrospect. Right. In retrospect, that was probably the way to go for everybody living with you. Well, there is a plus and a minus to that. I mean, the big reveal has more impact if nobody knows. That much is obvious. I think it was too much of a detriment to point out. To be the big reveal. It seemed like a good idea, but that was it. Go ahead, John. I think for the reduction of the podcast, it would have been a good idea for her to have her own time after the sessions where you talked to her ghosts. Right. That is actually one of the ones that is frequently cited as their favorite part of Dresden, when you and I sat together and I was the coin in your head talking to you and you were talking to it, because you were driving in a car and we did it separately at our house. It was at a totally different house because it didn't, in fact, anybody except for John and the listeners as far as, you know, what was going on. They loved that because it was kind of like a little secret that they knew and no one else did, but yet they all knew it as a race too. That's what was brought up before with the choose one-on-one episode. I think those are... They can be very interesting. Largely compelling. Yeah, very compelling. And Michael Clay in the Heart Cook Spring. Yeah. Yeah. In the first story. So she's going to continue being a character, you might want to consider that? Yeah, I think I'm going to change the way... No, that's an excellent feedback from all of you, and I think it's something that will change. Not only does it not take away from our playing time, which is, as we mentioned before, extremely limited, it extends the playing time because, you know, you're spending half an hour of usable material outside of the hour. I mean, of course, I won't always be able to talk to her about Sweeney after the session's over because there's not going to be that necessarily all the time that drive in a car alone by Roberta. Right. Because sometimes he's talking to her right when things are happening, which is what was the problem, I think, in this particular story was things are happening. Hey, Sweeney, talk to me. What's going on? And I would have to answer it through text. That's a planner that you tend to be. You might be able to plan some of those ahead of time so you could just pass her a note rather than hold on. I'll consider it because my imagination is to... That's what I'm saying, then go back and record it to fill what you had written back through the other. Right. No, that's good. I'm worried about the times when we can't do that. Right. And then we're going to dissolve into the same situation. I'm sure. Intro party conflict? Oh, everything. I wanted to say I already got said in one form or another. I did the bitch ago and last. Or not the last. Not even last. Two more. You have to go. Damn, what kind of circle do we do? It was a very crazy start. Outward. No, you're right. It skipped me. So basically the intro party conflict from your... It wasn't as annoying to me as everyone else, but they have a better ear for the taste of the podcast. Yeah, it might be the anal-retentive editor in me. So, I was a little bit annoyed by it. But I'm not as thoroughly as everyone else. I would prefer moving forward, given that we all sort of know what's going on now. That it'd be a little more open secret. And after session recording, that would be neat for the fans as well. Yeah. I think John actually had a really good point that... I mean, if Richel's going to be a character that you almost have to set her free because she's kind of in this player character NPC. Right. That you have control over. If she is going, you almost have to, I am imagining, give her full autonomy. Yeah. Let her have the... Well, she did, to be fair, she did have autonomy. She just didn't... Okay. Every single aspect of her character... You can't tell everyone, you know, the first 16 years of their lives. Are we talking about the wider issues? Right. But we didn't talk about every single detail. So she'd be like, "Well, what about this?" Well, okay. That's something we didn't talk about, but it certainly is a legitimate question. And so I think that's when we need to have it as an open secret. Right. I just think to integrate into the party successfully, you're going to... She almost has to share the same knowledge, or the same not her knowledge, the same information that we all have, and it's going to be kind of us and you. Right. Some of the... Because I wasn't sure how much of her is she driving plot points that you need us to get to. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. No, I understand it completely. Bob or Michael, either one you want to fit or everything else? Yeah. The conflicts, I thought, were pretty interesting. Did they add a lot to the story? So you thought Rachel's playing of Silver Bell was something that was actually beneficial for the contest more than that's mental, or just... Yeah. I mean, it did add a lot to the story, but I think there were so many other things going on at once. Right. I think it was just a lot to swallow. Right. Just everything. Too many distractions. Yeah. Right. Going back in time, the shattered man, the bishop, binary hacks thrown into that. Right. There's just a lot going on at one time. Okay. I think all of it added together. Made it more overwhelming. Yeah. I understand. And Michael. Last but not least this time. That wasn't particularly bothered by much of anything. I was equally bothered by those who had problems with her, you know, trusting her and whatnot. Not having my character not having had the history that there's... Right. So you're not talking about my metagame example, you're talking about my characters. Yeah. I was... Yeah. I was like, yeah. Right. Okay. But yeah, I thought it was interesting for the story. Sometimes it got annoying, waiting for the, he said she said thing to stop. Right. It was a good part of the story. Okay. And a really good question by Eric B. So thank you, Eric. I'll end it with one question that's storyteller-specific, but you guys can also chime in if you'd like to say anything about it. It's by Romulus P. And Romulus says, "I'm not that familiar with New World Darkness." Scott, when you are subtracting dice, are you trying to bring the players to a certain dice count? Also, when a player announces what they are trying to do, is there a target number of successes needed, or is it one success as the same as three or five? It seems that most of the grief you get is storytellers based around the difficulty of the roles paired with the nightmare situations you create. By the way, World of Darkness should be deadly, just saying, "I got this." Mm-hmm. What is interesting there is, no, I'm not looking for a certain dice count. It's a situational modifier. Yeah, it's a situational modifier. It's part of the game. You put your attribute with your skill. You add in any specialties you have. And then I say, and it's not always a negative if you listen to the story, it more often than not as a negative darkness, or rain, or... Usually the tensions. But there can be positives as well. You should work somewhere over when the ground's wet. It's really easy to knock them over. Plus, too, because it's wet, or you really know this subject very well, or it's something you've talked about in the past, plus 100 plus, dude. Rather than trying to reach a number, he's just trying to put numbers to the things that already exist. Right. Often the positives will be brought in by us, and that's not to say that you're not giving them to us. No, but you have the first positive. You're seeing it, like, "Hey, by the way, can I have a plus for this? Can I have a plus for that?" And the story teller always tries to make it, like, a chance die for you. Right. It's best I can't. Is there a target number of successes that the players need? No, Romulus? That actually depends on the role. It does. In almost every situation where it's an instant action, so that it's happening, can I shoot someone, can I open the door? Whatever. It's a die role, and you need one success. One success is as important as three successes, or two successes, or four successes. There's only two exceptions to that. The first is five successes, or above, is called an exceptional success. Which, as a story teller, you're supposed to be as lenient, and as positive as you could be in horror genre by granting some bonuses. I believe there was a time, Michael, when Ethan was deciphering his scroll of some sort, and you rolled the exceptional success. And then the next text you tried to decipher, I give you a plus two to the next, the role because of your exceptional success. And then Romulus, the only other time that is not the case, is when it is an extended role. So you either need ten successes to rebuild the car engine. Because you can't just walk up to the car engine in three seconds, rebuild it. I'm going to put a target number of dice. It's going to be extended roles where each role takes half hour a day. I as story teller decide how long each role takes, and I give a target number of successes. So someone who's very good at it, and has a higher diet pool, will succeed at that task, usually in a shorter period of time than someone who is rolling just several dice. I disagree that those are the only two, because there are times when I'm doing something spell-wise that has a significant difference based on the number of successes. And an exceptional role, for instance, would give me something exceptional. But two or three successes would give you something more than just one success. So there are cases when it comes to arcane knowledge. And how much you said you had a fourth lamest? Uh, contested roles, though. When you're competing against somebody, exactly three or four successes could be more important than one success, because you need to beat someone. We saw instances of that towards the end of the story, when John's character was trying to drop the rifle, and the rifle was trying not to be dropped. It was trying to convince him to keep it in his possession, so we saw contested roles there. So I guess there's actually four times when it's not the case, but if you take all the roles in a campaign, I would say that 80 to 85% of them are one success, and you succeed. And so I want to thank the listeners for such fantastic questions. We didn't get a chance to really delve in. We've got it. We've got a lot more questions. Yeah, a lot more questions. Hopefully, when we cover them, we'll have great. Great year, and also Sister Katie Jim here as well. Hopefully, if things will work out for him to be here, and that is all for tonight. So once again, thank you for your time, and thank you for your questions, and we look forward to talking to you again next week. Thank you for listening tonight to the night's actual play podcast. If you'd like to send us questions, comments, or feedback, you can reach us in a number of ways. From Twitter, @KOTN_podcast, or by email feedback@KOTNpodcast.com. And don't forget the iTunes reviews or our Facebook page, facebook.com/KOTN.podcast. Speaking of Facebook, join like-minded folks at our Facebook fan page. And lastly, there's our blog page, KOTN_podcast.com, where there's an Amazon link on the right-hand side. Thanks to Zen Audio Smith for the intro and outro music. Get your own music at zenaudiosmith.com. And join us next week for more mystery and adventure. [Music] And that Mercky, but Mercky? As for what was said regarding silver belt? Wow. As for what was said regarding silver belt? It's great. Right. Well, all the RAs. No, Jim again, huh? No, he is having car trouble. Car trouble. Car trouble, yeah. It almost sounds like he's in a hard trouble, which is- or car trouble, which was- I don't know. Car trouble. In his company, I finished trouble. He wants his tub spilled. They're all over. The very invasive species. Sure why he's keeping them there. Off topic. Did you- I'm turning it up. I didn't realize we're on the last episode. I was going to tell you the end with the same song that you began with. But you probably didn't. No, I definitely didn't. Like I said, you had a- like you said you had a bad week. So, son of a- You're starting on mine? You were our storyteller. You're done. Yeah. Full more storyteller. You've full more storyteller. No. Just- You're going. Good silence. So, if you had to- What? What? We should be electronics. No, there's a plastic underneath there. We're good. It's kind of like 9.40. Is it okay if we compare and contrast it with Dresden secrets or that might take too long? It's 11.47. That's what you meant. What I say. You said 9. I think if you go back and listen. Here you go. It's fine. I think you should go- I thought it was 49 maybe? I don't know. No. I think you should, if you want to, then you should go ahead. Okay. But go ahead, Tom. It depends. Almost like it. A lot of skins don't kill people. Guns that are possessed. Kill people. It's a less episode online. Yeah. I'm sure there's like six other times when we all hold this and we just don't know about it. Right. I'm sure there are other. Those are the four that have ever come into play. Right. By far the most common. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You're marking all these down. Just a quick question. We're not done with questions. No. This is part one. Next time. Yeah. We're going to. Yeah.