Adventure - DeliveryScene - Wrap Up Discussion
The crew talks about their impression feelings on fate and Dresden Files RPG in general and the Delivery story line in particular. Plus feedback from the final episode from the fans!
Knights of the Night
KOTN Actual Play Podcast 100: "Delivery - Wrap Up Discussion"
[Music] Hello and welcome to Nights at the Night Actual Play Podcast. This is the Dresden File discussion and feedback of the final episode 99. [Music] And now please enjoy episode 100. [Music] All right, before we get started on the 100th episode, we have a little bit of feedback from 99. From the RBG Cross Talk forums, from Mad Mjolnir. Well done, insert round of applause here. If you hadn't hinted at it in the feedback a couple episodes ago, I never would have seen the great kerfuffle between the warden and the fallen angel vessel coming. That was a kerfuffle you had, John. I thought it was. It sounded like one. Is it a kerfuffle or a kerfuffle? It's a kerfuffle. I thought. I just wanted to make you a weak kerfuffle. Right, kerfuffle. Whatever. Dude, you had a kerfuffle. I'm not done yet. You goes on. I would have called Alan on why he was walking away as well. That's the point where you should have had a plan within a plan to take down both big beds handily. Alas, next season. If Mike was here, I was like, "Damn it, Mike. Why didn't you have a plan within a recursive plan?" I'll try to be Mike. Mike had one plan. He had one plan. He went the magic went away. He went... Aww. Guys, it was the one plan I had you. You guys screwed that one all up to begin with. What's another plan going to do? Yes, thank you, Mike. He was very, very disappointed that our plan failed. But to Mike's credit, he had a lot of disparate elements underneath his command going... Oh, you're sticking out for Mike this week, are you? Well, no, I'm sitting into his spot trying to pay from Mike's point of view. I hope he doesn't like the advocate, too. Yes, I think he did his best under the circumstances. And I would put forth that we may now cause more trouble by attempting to kill Constance and failing than had we stuck with the plan we had originally. That's what Mike would say. We actually have a worse situation now with Abigail pissed at potentially at least one of us, maybe more of us, and a Constance who was completely unhinged and angry due to a bash to the head from a sludge hammer. I would say that potentially we actually have a worse situation than had we just gone with the first plan. I had to go with John's plan and actually killed her. Abigail wouldn't have allowed it. That's what Mike would have said. I'm sure that the whole thing and whatever between season banter goes on will make the family events this year interesting. He thinks that's what we will be talking about. Right, but we do occasionally talk. Yes. So, have you jumped straight back into World of Darkness, or is there something else in between? Yes, we have jumped right back in the world. Jumped right back into World of Darkness, and then after World of Darkness there may be, well there's, you can go one of three ways. Another World of Darkness, a sideline venture, or back to Dresden. Yeah, we might try one shot or something else. We had a bit of Facebook feedback. One was all the way back in episode 90, which Ed North said, "Just listen to episode 90" and that he had stopped listening so that he could get a backlog of episodes. Depressingly enough, I googled pretty orchids because of this episode. That was a pretty orchid episode. Actually, it was a lady slipper orchid or something? Yes, it was, but it was a pretty... Now I will admit also, I googled lady slipper orchid. Just see what they would look like and if they actually existed. I made this shit off of your mind. I did google it because I don't know that shit off the top. London would know it, I would not know it. Good enough. Also on Facebook, episode 99, Jaina Stockton said, "I finally caught up through all 99 episodes." Thank you so much for sharing your story with everyone. My group and I really enjoy them. Dresden has an awesome finale and I can't wait to see the hunters begin their run again. If you're still looking for questions on your big 100, I'd love to hear what everyone's favorite moment from delivery is. And of course, we did cover that. We'll be running questions right after this. Right after this conversation, from our sponsor. That was a wonderful time to catch up. Let's just get right there and oh it's done. That was a good time. No waiting. Yeah, I think that's why Ed was built in a backup. Because we do tend to do cliffhangers and maybe he wanted to not wait and be weak in between the cliffhangers. We didn't really end. Yeah, that's true. He kind of ended on a cliffhanger. Also on episode 99 Richard Watts said, "Wow." Wow. I'm trying to take it all in and I'm having a hard time. Brilliant moves, sudden betrayal, displays of raw power and sweeping changes. A fitting end to a great story. Thank you so much for letting us sit around your table with you guys. More importantly, thanks for listening. Yeah, absolutely. But thanks for the confidence as well. You know, I think it should be said and I think hopefully it's obvious when people listen to it. We were all stunned by the switches and you know, I don't think anyone saw London's pull. Well, first of all, no one saw the match was going to go out. We just didn't plan for it. It just, it was a total curveball. I think London's was a complete curveball for the other players. And I think John's, Roberto's move to strike curve was a curveball for, if not all the players, certainly for myself and Mike who had said, "Don't you do that." And he still did it. So I think it was for us as well as the listeners. So you guys keep saying that. You said don't attack her unless you attack. She did attack. He had every right to do what he wanted to after. You know, you have listened to it better than I have. So you may know that. I thought I said, as an employee, he said, "We are not going to be." I think it was implied that you guys had control of it and it was all done. And it was, I don't remember. What was it almost? When I clocked in the morning, we played really late to finish it. And Mike was, I had already packed up his keys and he was ready to go home. When John blew it back open and Mike was like, "No!" We talked to death before we started into the whole pending plan about what we're going to do and what we're not going to do. But I really don't remember when listening to the last two episodes and they're kind of fresh in my mind. If anybody's saying, "If this happens, stop, don't attack her." If we could get her, we're going to just let her go and walk away. Again, it wasn't implied. It was not implied, but it was not said. It was never said. From London's point of view, I don't think we had a plan where she was. She was overtly implied, but I think from Roberta's point of view, it wasn't. And Roberta took a bullet for you. She dipped in front of the floor. And the only reason I didn't believe in him, I don't know. I don't know what it would have done to Roberta on the spot. I don't know, but I do appreciate the fact that he took a bullet for me. And it's probably, I think, going forward in the story, going to be one of the things that brings London back to Roberta because London feels betrayed right now by him. But I think the bullet thing is going to help even out and hopefully mitigate some of the discord between them. He also posted on episode 99, and his first post was just frustration because he had downloaded it and was ready to listen to it. And then something happened and he was unable to, so he had to wait a while. But then he said, "Don and well worth it." In a way, it was quite a different episode as it had a lot more crunch being mostly, well, only combat. But that made it good for me as it was interesting to hear, and though most likely more than less editing, the workings of the fighting actions, both magical and mundane, with a little social thrown in for good measure. Biting my lip here, not to blurt out a couple of memorable moments, must resist, but no spoilers for those that come here after I am. Go and listen to the gaming goodness yourself. Next up, the reviews, looking forward to it. Excellent entertainment from your group. Congratulate all of them for me. Ari, thanks so much for listening. We appreciate the feedback. We're glad you enjoyed the ending as much as we did, and we look forward to your continued comments as we go through our next round of World of Darkness. We had one last comment from Taylor McClure on 99. We just said, well, that was certainly something. Which, maybe, and I'm actually in chatting with some of the people on Facebook, Danny wasn't for everybody. We got a lot of positive feedback. Sure. Some people didn't like that it didn't end with a resolution of the Big Bad, being dead. I think it bothered some of them that it was left as a cliffhanger. Right. Well, really, really agreed with Roberto. Well, there you go. In addition, we had some chat on Facebook regarding Episode 99. DJ Allen said, if I was in that group, I would have finished a job or died trying. I don't let Hostel's room free like that when you got them dead to rights. London's idea was nothing short of brilliance. I was awed by the plan and wanted to know if he was going to get attacked when he did it. And I'm glad you sent the others out of the room so that the listeners could hear. And then driving away, nope. Hammer upside the head. Which is exactly what happened. Well, I can't believe how things ended and I wanted to hear more. But I'm really amped about getting back to the world of darkness. I'm torn. And I asked him what he thought about the fake ending in the middle where you were walking away with her and I started playing our own music and then did record scratches. Right. He came in with a hammer upside the head. And he said, no, it wasn't too cheesy. But he did do a double taste when he heard the music. And it was funny. And he thinks that in the future he might want to employ something like that. Okay. Well, I want to say thank you. So that's really cool. Thank you for the compliments. And I'm glad. I mean, I think a lot of people agreed with John and Roberto to finish the job. I don't know if it was a 50/50 split or in our listenership or how it broke down. But I think a lot of people just enjoyed it for what it was and didn't have them both one way or another. Right. But yeah, it would have been fun to see you go either way. For me, I think the ending was ambiguous. I kind of like that because it leads to the next story. I think Abigail wasn't there. Oh my gosh. We would have took her out. Yeah. I agree. Oh, you would have. If we did not. Absolutely. She was even pummeled by you guys. Yeah. I mean, John was putting some heavy smack down. I know he was disappointed in the first shot that he gave her. It didn't ring her bell. But it still had a secondary armor that took most of it. Yeah. And you still did. You did six physical stress. That's pretty damn high. Yeah. Without that armor, I would have done like 60. Well, without that, if someone would have hit her with a light grenade. Before that, she wouldn't have had the six stress. You would have definitely laid some serious consequences on her. Anthony Ertmer said, "I just wanted to say that I had a great time listening to The End of the Dressing Files game. The ending was a masterpiece and I feel sorry for the party when they have to cross paths with Abigail again." Yeah. So does London. Richard Watts said that was epic. It was a period after each word. Awesome. Nice. So any hurt feelings at the table, the players' conflicts seemed pretty intense. And all I could think when Roberta was charging in was crucial to your sudden but inevitable betrayal. Which Scott would know what it means if he would actually watch Firefly. But I would have to say no that there wasn't. No. Mike was hot. Mike was hot. Yeah. It was so funny listening to the podcast. You'd just tell his team. And I'm so glad that you did not edit out his deep size. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Every time you did that, it started to laugh. I had to leave those. Yeah. And in Mike's defense, you know, there was a lot going on there. There was the fact that he had a plan that again was implied. Oh, there was many, many things. And it goes all the way back to when we started making any characters. Yep. He didn't like you being a Blackboard vampire. No. He thought that went against everything in the game that you guys were supposed to be on the same team. And so that's set out on the wrong path. You know? And then that's why a lot of times he was confrontational legitimate. Right. It was a league confrontational of the players. Yeah. He really was. These two. And London too. Well, yeah. I was socially in the ass. I was a pain in his ass that entire story. Yeah. Yeah. And so. And Roberto and Maxwell were as well. Yeah. I mean, really Jim was his really, his best ally if he would have cultivated it. But he just wasn't there. That's right. Even though it was said to him time and time again, he never registered the fact that. Yeah. Yeah. You were a Blackboard. He wasn't gonna, it just, yeah. He actually did it in the fucking feedback last week. Like after. He's like, and you, you're a human who's doing this after 18 weeks of playing. He still would not acknowledge that he knew that you were a vampire. But to Mike's defense, he made a plan and people. He thought he was gonna, he thought he was gonna die. Yeah. He was going into that, into that thinking. People did myself. Followed through. It was late at night. Very late. Very late. He had had a very long weekend. And then. I think he was going camping with his son. Back today. He had to lead to go camping. Yeah. There was a lot going on. I'm not getting any sleep. Yeah. It's just not gonna happen. So anyways. I think there's a lot going on there. But no. To the point of, it never, well, I shouldn't say it never, but the group's been playing together for the longest time. I haven't. But. Well, no, but I mean. That's an R group. There's two here that have been playing together for 30 plus a year. Oh God. Yes. There's someone else here that hopefully may be coming back soon that's been around for 30 years as well. Up until you. Dog 32 for Doug. Nineteen eight. Really. Junior high school for Jim, probably a good 28 to 30 years for Jim. Now we're all. Bob. Fifteen to 18 years. Yeah. Probably. John. Two months. John, you've been here a year. A whopping three months. You know what I found out? Somebody asked me about the breakdown of, they thought it was all 100 episodes, one adventure, which it's not. It's to its world of darkness. World of darkness ended at 50. And Dresden ended at 100. You're exactly. Quits of this. Yeah. I think not. So just to get back to that point, we know each other so well that even if things do get heated in the moment, and maybe there's something even a little out of character that's kind of affecting our personality at that time, I think that literally five minutes later, it's gone. It's gone. Because we're all friends or family or family and friends. So no, it never got personal. Even when it got personal. Didn't stay that way for a minute or two. Some of the fans had the same question when you and I got into it as Tayden and Jay. Yep. I mean, we were going at it. Going at it. Going at it. And it was right. Okay. So I think it was a little longer to get it to cool down. But again, it was probably less than five minutes and he was already like off of his high. Richard went on to say that when I asked him about his favorite character, he said that Alan is still the most interesting, but London man, Scott's move was just genius. That's at least a second vote for that. And he said he realized after the last episode that several things had changed in Cleveland already. The most significant was the balance of power is gone. Abby wins, Constance is out forever after that curse, which is primarily true. Yes. Now I'm looking at an ash heap of victory that feels emotionally so hollow. I think Roberto is more isolated, making it easier for his demon to influence him and Ellen's is going to be a wreck from guilt. London just blew all of his cred with Abby and a new power structure to navigate. Maxwell is the only person who comes out of this relatively clean salt. Well, maybe an admin too. Like I said, it was epic and immensely enjoyable. It lived up to the hype. And now I just have to face the fact that it will be a while before I see these characters again. Oh, probably. Yeah. A heck of a ride. Thanks for pulling it all together for the fans. Thanks for listening. And that was really a really good synopsis of how it ended, or at least a way that it could have ended. But I think the thing that he's saying that the fans actually care that much. Yeah, I'm sorry, but it is. It is. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying. No, not at all. I mean, it's really cool though, right? I felt after that battle, and that's why I'm kind of speaking to the point, it did feel like an emotionally hollow victory after that, and maybe because I had envisioned it a certain way. And I think Mike had envisioned it a certain way and reverted. Oh, no. But at his own, it was a compromise in which nobody got what they were doing. And no, but exactly what I'm going to say, no one got a happy ending of far as the character of an Abigail. I mean, she got her power structure. She's on top now, but her sister is mad and hollow. Right. Oh, she got it. It's Jill, and Abigail got two people that she can experiment on if you're on one door. And to me, it's Abigail, but even she lost a sister. And she got one hell of a lily. She did get it. It's working, man. Get it right. Flour. Later on, Richard and I had another conversation, and he said in that conversation that I definitely want you to tell Thomas that I'm impressed with how he did hanging out with his teammates and enemies that could shred him. He completely took her caster out of the last fight almost single-handedly. Maxwell Edison is a badass, and you do not mess with a man who routinely grapples with supernaturally strong monstrosities and then walk away under their own power. Well done. Well done. You got a fan. It's hard to say I want to switch my character now. I know. He just told you it was all good about it. I asked him about the cheesy break in the middle, too, and he said, "Well, there was a moment where I went what?" Well, that's it. And then the break hit, and we come up with Roberto's crisis moment, and I thought, "Oh, I see what you did there." It broke up the angst a bit. It was pretty well placed to lighten the mood before things got dark again. So too cheesy a bit. Did it work? Just fine. Which I hadn't thought about it. It wasn't my intent. No, we were going really heavy and dark, and then there was like, "Why aren't you planning going with old-time carousel music?" No, that was when you-- Was it somewhere else? Yeah. I was saying, as you were walking away to the car, and it was like, that could have been the end. I was confused at what you were talking about. So I placed in our end music, and had it go for a bit, and then cut it short, because Roberto said, "It ain't over." Richard Watts also had a couple of questions for the 100th episode, and he said, "I thought I have a couple additional questions. For all the players, what was the moment when you figured out who your character was?" I've noticed in relistening to the podcast, he actually listened to it twice, that it took a few sessions before people started to feel comfortable with the characters, so to speak. Yeah, maybe with the system even more than the characters, because like I said, I felt like I-- But you were probably the only person who didn't, you have to-- I felt like I knew London the second he came off the-- But I had-- Because of the character creation. I had no idea what London was, and where he was going, and what he did, and what he can do, and what kind of a person was. Yeah, but what about your character? I mean, how do you feel-- And that was weird about it, is because of the way they made the system, and we made our characters. We're all supposed to have a relationship, and know each other, going into the beginning of the adventure. Yeah, it didn't really work. But we really didn't know each other until halfway through the adventure, who they were, and interlinking with aspects is not supposed to be that your best friends forever. That means you had an adventure in which you were in some way related. And in some cases, it could be in the background, you did something to say, "London," you were in the same story, and you do have a tentative link, but it doesn't have to be that close. But in any case, I don't think any of those links worked very well for us. Yeah. And it probably could have been our fault, I could see how it could work, but not for first-time players, it would be amazing that it did work. I would say, when I was in the hotel room with Mike, and we made some crude jokes about the wine, or the champagne, and the serpent turf, it really started to form for me. Because London could have been any kind of fence. But the fact that he really liked to hire things in life, I think I had a quote in that scene where I said, "Listen, I like my champagne from France, my women from Brazil, and my chocolate's from Bell," or something. He had a line, and all of a sudden, it solidified me, "Oh my gosh, he sticks his pinky out when he drinks a wine glass. He is manly, yet somehow, effeminate, or certainly a metrosexual." Yes. Right. That was a description. So I found him in that scene, I think I had a statement where I said some things that he liked, kind of by accident, and it really crystallized who he was for me. Anyone else? Find the character? I found it yet for me. I haven't yet. I originally thought my character is going to be more like a Hulk-type character, where he's a pretty mellow guy, and every once in a while he'll be able to get strong, go crazy, pitch things around. And I tried doing that when I first started with my character, and he realized that he wasn't the pick up and throw things around as much as he just walked up and punched things. Yeah, I mean, it's as strong as his weapons, and you had no weapons skills whatsoever. Yeah. So it's like you were really strong. You almost ended up being pretty diplomatic. Yeah. And I wanted to charge you into combat first guy for maybe at the beginning of the story, but not in the middle in the end. Yeah, and then I ended up having my character kind of had more resource power than his stats actually stated he had. Now, Jon-- Because he provided a lot of cover, a lot of equipment that he will, when I judge my character before the next adventure, it'll make more sense. But that's where I kind of, in the middle of it, said, "Okay, this is the kind of character he is, this is what kind of resources he has, this is where I should have had my character when I started." And I tried to be lenient with that for you guys, you know, I mean, it was the first time you made your character, so. I want to say that Jon is leading the voting, and there's probably a lot of people out there who want to know when Jon found himself with Roberto. He's a little bit when I snapped the vampire's neck in order to get answers from the other his partner. And the-- That's during the eye gouging? Yeah, I stuck my thumb in his eye, and then he was still in answering, so I was like, "Here, look at your body." And the snap does neck, so-- Right. --and then I realized that my guy didn't care about supernatural people who threatened the public. He just used them to do whatever runs he thought would work for him. And so he knocked off the ghoul king and became the new leader of the ghouls. Right. And that's when I thought that I knew about Roberto, that he would use whatever ends to end. That fits in your character very well, because you're-- Yeah. That's how I rid him up. But-- You're a good person, but you're trying to use evil to be a good person. Evil to fight evil. Yeah. That never ends well, by the way. We're great for this episode. We nearly knocked off-- Yeah, that's true. --conscience, except we had to make a deal with the-- You know what I was saying? And quarterly reduced the amount of ghouls that are in the-- Oh, they're gone. They're all but-- No, all of them. Yeah. So you would say it was the neck snapping, out of gouging incident that really kind of shims-- Interview with a vampire? You kind of turned the corner there. Yeah. This is who I am. Yeah. I'm going to be-- This is what I do. I'm going to be that guy. I was like, no going back from there. No. I was-- When you snap someone's neck, there really is no going back. I did it already. I can't apologize. I'm not allowed back on Jim's car now. I was the one who-- Did he run through the wall too? Yeah. He was a good man. He was a good man. He was a good man. Yeah. He got that in their head. Somebody actually posted a picture of the Cooley man running through a wall. Right. But anyways, yeah. So that's cool that you found your character there. And one last question from Richard Watson. He says, "I have a relatively new group of role-playing players who are listening to you as a hero for their own Dresden adventure." Homework. Homework. Yeah. Listen. Yeah. Do you have any tips or pointers for character creation process that will really help them get a handle on role-playing their characters more effectively? You know, take caffeine? Yeah. Take caffeine because it's a long session. But take those aspects seriously. I mean, put some thought into how they fit together, not just with yourself but with a group, but more for yourself. Because I'll say it for the 85th time, when I was done with the aspects, I knew London better than any character I was ever going to get ready to play. Which still meant I wasn't, I didn't know him inside now because as you said, I didn't know really who he was until that apartment or hotel room episode. But it really gave me a framework. So if you just throw those aspects out there, just trying to make them so you can use them in every situation, you're not going to know your character that well. But if you really pay attention to your aspects and really try to put some thought into them, you will know of your character pretty well going in that first story. You know, when I was going for aspects, I was really looking for something that I could use. Something I could use and I realized I had several aspects after I started that I couldn't use. That I would rarely ever use or didn't even make sense at all and I really wish I would have picked something more. Nothing difficult to do with fate. Yeah, it really is. I wish I would have thought of something more and I kept trying to think of things as I was going along that could switch them to and nothing was really coming to me until midway to the adventure. I did not change one of my aspects the entire story. I changed a lot of mine. Mike, who played Allen and John, who played Roberto, both changed theirs a bit. Right. Hopefully the GM will be clean enough to let you change your aspects, plus our character better in the year a lot of months. Every time you start a new session, you can look at your aspects and change one another. Right. But that shouldn't take away from the fact that you should really try to get to know your character. It's not something you did. I had five good ones, but you need seven. So when I was playing through the game, I was looking for ones to replace it and they threw action. I think I was a bit uncomfortable playing it first with a new group and all. So after a while, I was more comfortable with my character and I said, "These are things I need to know and do." Right. So I changed aspects to reflect my character two or three of them, but those changed after character creation. I wasn't entirely sure. And after that solidifying moment, I don't be afraid to have a couple that aren't solid yet. Yeah, exactly. Try to fly shop as you can, but leave a few open. Yep. If you can't. Don't force something in. Just leave it blank. My high concept fueled the rest of them. I mean, I had the character who was going to protect his neighborhood but was doing so with the force of evil. That's what was confusing me about my character. My high concept of trying to hide my identity just didn't make sense by the adventure. I wanted to say, "Tell everybody who the hell I was and do my own thing." Yeah, I was going to say that if you have a really good high concept, your other ones usually, not maybe not all of them, but a certain group of them will fill themselves out. And what I would suggest as a GM is to try to make some that can be used against you. That aren't just for you to be positive and to use your points, you need to earn it. You just got to be a way for you to earn them as well. Right. And new players sometimes forget that. That you got to give something for the GM to put you in a little bit of trouble. Besides your points. So that you can earn the points. Yeah, I mean, a lot of them, if they're well phrased, can be used either way. And those are the best. And Tom, I think that's a hard to do. I think that's a statement that really needs to be said for role-playing in general if you're playing the fate-based system and you're not playing D&D or some other more tactical-type game that's a little bit thinner on role-playing is fuck yourself up sometimes. Give yourself problems. Give yourself situations. When you get in trouble, that's when it's fun. Exactly. When you are in trouble, your backs against the wall are some of the best role-playing sections we've ever had. You know, I think that's really important to say is if you try to make the perfect character, you're really not going to have a fun time role-playing in the fate system. If you give your character flaws and things the GM can use against you, then by all means that. Sometimes you want to remove yourself almost from role-playing and do it almost as more as storytelling. Oh, yeah. So you're not all wrapped up in your character and what's good for your character. It's what's good for the story. And that's exactly the point. And that's Doug, by the way, who's been role-playing with us for about 30 years and hopefully stepping back in. And that's a great point, Doug, is it's not about, especially in the fate system, it's not about leveling up, it's really about the story. There is not a fantastic leveling system in fate that I'm aware of. But it's about telling a really great story together and if you do, that will last so much longer than my character made it to 20th level. There's things for character growth, but as an advancement system, it's not the greatest. Right. Or maybe it is, because they're trying to tell stories. They're not trying to get you to focus on the leveling aspect. So, yeah. So, cause yourself trouble. I mean, give yourself flaws. Give yourself weaknesses. That's a buzzed by speaking. We have one bit of mail from the feedback at kotnpodcast.com email address. This was from Pegasus who says, "Hello, my honorary Australians as I have dubbed you." Loving the show so far, like I have stated before, you're like a very, very good TV show except somebody rolls a dice. I have some questions. The first one is, "What made you start the podcast?" And I think I may have covered that in our Honda episode or not, I'm not sure. I started doing it because two of my son's plays, as many of you know, Roberto and Maxwell. My youngest son is 11 years old and he wanted to know what was going on, so I started recording it and now he's not allowed to listen. We swear too much. Yes. But that's why we started recording it. It's rated MA. Why? He named it Shindlok. I mean, come on. There's that too. The first story. But he could have been S.H. Exclamation point to you. No, it couldn't have been. Okay. Look. You can make two versions of the podcast one with beeping. Oh, yeah. What's up, Megan Wong? Duty luck. I won't have a censored version. For each of you, who do you enjoy playing the most? For you and I, it's really easy. I enjoy Jay. Do you enjoy London? Because we only play one character. You have this all right, right? Yeah, it's the only question. Yeah, I think for these guys, it's mine and it's Maxwell and Roberto because they're their only characters and you. And Mike's not here tonight, so you can't pick. Yes. When I was playing Tony, I liked playing him and then when I was playing Kate, I liked playing her. Right. But what about your vampire? Oh, you mean out of the two dimensions? Yes. The systems, I think, is what his question is. Which one did you prefer? Yeah. I like Tony. Tony was fun as character. I was playing. Okay. I had fun playing him. Tony was a fun character. Yes. And you have a memorable quote from Tony. Yeah. I got this. Yeah. I got this. I got this. I got this. I got this. Boo. It burned, literally burned into a forehead. Trying to abuse a bomb in the bottom of a building. Their enemies had let carbon monoxide leak throughout the building. That didn't kill them. So then they had people stationed outside the building to keep them inside. That didn't kill them. And so then they found a bomb on the basement that was going to blow the whole building around it. It has to be something you heard to you. Yeah. Absolutely. I heard there were the demolitions experts. That's one trap. That's one trap. That's one trap. Traps within traps. Mike, I don't know what he would say. He certainly, there were times when he really enjoyed playing Michael Floyd. I said this one before, and I think Michael played was more preferable than Alan. Really? I would have thought he would have said Alan. And I thought he would have said Alan. It might have been before the end of it. Sure. So no. Okay. Pegasus continues for my deep questions. What is humanity? Is it worth saving? What is salvation? And is it worth waiting for? Is he talking about in-game? I'm going to assume he's talking in-game because primarily we're not going to discuss our own. Well, right. I mean, I wouldn't think he's asking him anyways. I mean, he really can't carry that much. Now, he may be referring to humanity as in how Thomas, his character is Maxwell was. Every life is sacred type of reality. Well, right. I'm going to go with. That's what we're exploring here. Yeah. That's absolutely what we're exploring. Well, I'm going to explain to him that we're learning this point of view, and- London's 100% human. He doesn't have any super anything going on really well. Well, he's just a guy, he's just a guy, just a guy, you know? He's a dick, but he's a guy. He's a practitioner. He's a focused, focused practitioner. Yeah. I actually had that right. I can't believe it. Without his toys, he can't do the stuff he does though, right? It's more his toys than he does. Yeah. He can do that. He's searching me. Yeah. I got a little bit I can do. What we're exploring is, you know, what makes Cleveland infected with darkness right now? He really involves stories. And how much are we willing to give and sacrifice to save that? London? Not a hell of a lot, to be honest. He'd just move on to the next place for him, and it wouldn't really mean that much to him one way or another. Well, will that be the same answer that London gives in story three or four or five? You know, as he goes along as character arc and changes? I hope not. I mean, I hope he has a different answer at that point. Otherwise, he's static, and that's not very interesting. That is more of a question for both Allen and Robert. I think Allen is an excellent choice to answer that, and I think Allen absolutely thinks Cleveland is worth saving, and absolutely thinks that humanity's worth saving. But just in the few days he was in town, he changed. Yeah. I think Allen would think that Cleveland's definitely worth saving. That humanity's worth saving, that humanity's worth saving, that's definitely what grounds us all, what we have in common. Roberto saw that humanity was any person with superpowers who had not yet betrayed the public. I'm not sure exactly what he qualified as the public, but he was a soldier in the past, and he was defending his country in Afghanistan, and after he picked up the coin, he realized there's a whole bunch of supernatural shit that's preying on his people and his neighborhood, and that they have no knowledge of it. Now he's learned that there's wizards who do have knowledge of it and are doing nothing to stop it. So he's taking it upon himself to protect these people, but anyone who sees this evil and aids it or does nothing for it has lost their humanity to him and is not worth working with. That's why he disobeyed, blatantly disobeyed. Why are you looking at me? London, who made a deal with a wizard, who was experimenting with, you're accusing him of making a deal with the devil? Yeah, pretty much. And he did. He says that he watched you know, he's carrying around a coin that contains a fallen angel. He's ignorant of the fact. Oh, you're ignorant of the fact. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Roberto has no idea what it is. He's actually holding him. It's just a source of strength that enables him to protect his people, which allows him to continue on with his righteous faith. Even if that he has. I mean, that in a mean way, that allows him to have his righteous attitude. I built him in that frame of mind, but I played him well. Even if Alan confronted him, he wouldn't be able to say he's harboring an evil angel. He's harboring a force for justice. And that's all I see as it as. Right. So as long as you can sleep in me, I just don't throw it in there. Mike's not here to say it. Two last things. Peg has a set in his email. If you ever do a video podcast, I can add it very well and we'll be happy to do it for you. Everybody wants a video. I know. We're not doing a video. I think I have no problem with the video, but I don't need what I do. And the problem I have with it is that if we did a video, we would need one person who was recording and he would, at best, he or she would videoing whoever was talking and it's just, it's a whole production that I don't want to do. Well, see, we'd also, we appreciate Pegis's, Pegis size offer, but we would run loose control in a sense of the editing process, which the editing is, I think, very important part of what makes the podcast as popular as it is. I think it's appreciated. But we're not quite ready for it. Wouldn't it remove some of the magic? Yeah. I would have to think something like this and the discussion, like, actually one thing I thought about doing, one thing I thought about doing is when people were talking, put up a picture of their character, instead of, you know, showing your eyes, your hair or the farm. Because we talked about it all the time. I think I had a lot of work and I'm not doing it. Yeah. And once they're a part of a computer, you know, you can get pictures of Cleveland and the area. A lot of that stuff at Facebook and I did that, but I mean, I'm not, so yeah, for each one. Well, what happens is you have to do it as an MP4, instead of an MP3, and not everybody can play that. So that means we'd have to do two releases. And that means. I got a. It's not happening. It's not happening. I got an idea. Well, and the production time would go. Yeah. This guy, right. You have an idea to go. The guy who said he'll do a video editing for us can take one of our audio and do his own thing. And then go download all the pictures on the website and then just make a video and just clip different pictures and go out on the internet and try to find pictures of what we were talking about. I think that'd be cool. Someone wanted to go out and do that. Go for it. There's actually a podcast I listen to that does that. Yes. It's the DICE tower. They do board games and someone comes in after and creates a second one in which they show a picture of every game that they're talking about. Right. They got it from board gaming. That's the one I listen to. And you would trust that? I would allow them to do it. I'm still going to put out my version of it. And if they have to take a week or so later to do that, then sure. Go for it. But I mean, a lot of the pictures are already, to be fair, like Doug was saying, I mean, we don't have every picture out there of Cleveland like where you're going. Oh, no. It might be some map of Ohio City because where the world of darkness took place, but we don't have like coffee shops and things like that, which would actually be pretty cool. I mean, you guys were eating breakfast one day at the Big Egg and you left yours at the Big Egg. Yeah. Or I think it's just Big Egg. I'm not going to say that. What do you want to say though? What do you want to say though? Big Egg. You say Patrick's where you left your sniper rifle in the bell tower of the church. You're never going to have to let it down, aren't you? No. You're just a sniper of the bell tower of St. Patrick. A little sniper rifle leaning in the corner. If he can add that in, that would be even better. What's this, brother? Do you think it'd be more interesting if we threw pictures of the local places we were going to like the West Side Market and the Coventry and... But potentially. Yeah. That means like a Google street maps view, like... I did do that for some of it. When they were fighting it and they had a theater, I took a picture of the balcony that's on the side. Oh, there's like a picture of the subway out there. I got it from Google. I got that too. Tell me. And what's this last question? Well, thank you for reading this rambling email. Oh, and before I go, there's always a calm before a storm, but it takes a man to turn around and face the storm. Salute. Yeah. I also asked him... Was that me? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I also asked him who his favorite character was, and he said from shit luck, it was Michael Clay and Jay. And from Dresden, it was Alan and Maxwell. So... Oh, yeah. There you go, Robert. Over there. I'm facing the stores. I'm a man. Damn it. I was going right into the frickin' storm. We'll wrap up quickly. And now with two iTunes review, one from Sylvester, who said a great actual playgroup. What? Yay, iTunes review. Yes, two of them. Remember the part right bagged? Yeah. I don't like that work. Not bagging anymore. See if that works. Yeah. But you picked the Amazon link then. Oh, that actually worked. Amazon, we got flooded. So whoever was out there ordering the next. We appreciate it. All right. Two iTunes review. The first one was Sylvester, who had a five star review, great actual playgroup. He says, "I really enjoy listening to KOTN and look forward to every episode to drop." All the negatives you experience and other actual play casts are completely missing here. There are no eating, lip smacking, disgustingness. The language is controlled without being forced clean and the hosts are personable and the characters are well-rounded. Yeah. I really like that they're exploring different systems with some degree of depth. Give them a listen. You'll like what you hear. So thank you Sylvester. Yeah. Thank you very much. And we also got one from Wattspot, who said, "Gather around the table" another five-star review. The podcast is far and away the best of the actual play sessions I've heard. Players are longtime friends and very respectful of one another with a minimized amount of crosstalk. In addition, excellent editing of the session serve up an almost radio-like play quality. Complete with theme, music, and sound effects. As an added bonus, each session begins with feedback and discussions of other systems, stories, and news involved in the greater role-playing world. If you're a fan of good role-playing and looking for inspiration for your own gaming group or just miss the fun of sitting around at a table with your friends, you really enjoy gathering around the digital table with the nights of the night. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Good stuff. Very much for the iTunes review. And as I mentioned before, the more reviews we get there, the more likely our podcast shows up, which means more listeners. Right. We appreciate the effort of getting us more listeners. With that, we'll wrap up the feedback and we'll get on to the actual episode 100. All right. The dress and files game is over, and what we left on a bit of a cliffhanger. We don't know whether or not we want to go forward and play at least one more session or we want to leave some of the things that were unresolved for the next time we play. There was a lot of definite hot button issues going on between Mike's character Alan and Roberto, not to mention London. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Does that do aspect? We'll get the idea that he's got powers that he didn't tell anybody about. He was starting to really warm up the fact that hey, I'm also working with a guy who's got black court powers and that's something I've been fighting and do I want to hang out with these people or do I want to hang out with these people or, you know, it's just. Yeah, well, if it's the first part of a trilogy, you know, the middle act is always the dark act and that's what I feel like we have, we've introduced everyone, we've encountered stuff. We're now moving into the dark middle act, in which case things will be tested and tried and I don't know if you want to play another session. I think it left at a nice kind of what's going to happen now. From Alan's point of view, whatever the group that was assembled to meet this immediate situation, you know, he's less than two weeks in to Cleveland and he came hoping to prove his master innocent and he got tangled up with some not one, but now two very powerful beings that aren't going to be happy with us. We knew, I knew it was going to be tangled with one, but we got two in the mix. People who I thought was. It still isn't resolved how she's going to respond to that. She being navigaled. There's a lot of dangerous questions and dangerous issues, not the least of which. So do we play one more round to get that or do we say this is where the Dresden book ends and then we come back to another book in which a month has passed and things have changed, but how have they changed? I think it is storytelling wise better to stop here and start a new book. Oh yeah, I couldn't agree more. Thematically needs to end right there. Or everybody parts on either good or bad terms and then we get thrown back into the mixture. I'll crap. I got to work with these freaking idiots again. Well, but see, I think that that takes some of the from the end. My personal opinion is you just let it end. Yeah, let it end. And when we come back, everyone's intrigued to see how the players have why and how the players have come back area. The players have come back together again. Well, and I think that's going to be a major challenge is jump in Scott, but London's employee win against your plan. So as an employee, employer relationship issue one, issue two is okay, as the de facto captain or the employer of everyone, no one was listening to the final commands or ideas or something. No one. I'm sorry. Because I had her right where we wanted her. I don't. But it's like, okay, as an employee, not forget your powers and what I've seen. I'm like, would I want to work with these contractors again? Probably not. However, events have happened based on observation in the game that I watched what I thought was a normal human physically beat down a goal. Later on, throw Hellfire ding, ding, ding, ding. Morning lights are going off over here. Well, not until he threw it at the car. Did you know that it was him? I mean, it happened. The pocket thing happened, but I know that there was Hellfire, but then I then you saw him physically throw Hellfire. Yeah, so I know that okay, Hellfire, which I only know as a wizard has only one source. So you're raising alarm bells here. Right. And so I would I would know that. Same thing here, normal person who ripped off a, you know, a bolt to down theater chair from cement and then use it to, you know, beat on a don't don't do that. Please, please God don't do that. I'm so confused. No, he's a black Ford vampire. He said it four times. No, but I it's a little like that. You know, he's a black court vampire. That's never in question. Though I would tell you, I am not a black court vampire as they are. I just have, he doesn't feed on blood. I have black court vampire powers. So I think we all agree, except for, yeah, it's a great place. But that's the best place to stop. Okay, I'm sorry, everybody. You misunderstood. I mean, we're saying when we come back, we might not be on the best. I, I, but how we would all come together, it's gonna be the fun fun, again, would be a challenge. And I would think it'd lead it to me. Yeah, and the obvious thing would be, you know, hey, these might not be the people you want to employ again to do something again, but they might be the only people who can handle the job. It could very well be the judge and who we took down and how we took them down or probably the I think people will keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I'm going to be observing, although I would want to get a bunch of spells in place before I talk to you guys. You need to hide out with like safety. I need, I need so many things. Yeah, there's a number of things we'll cover in the end room. We're going to do a dress and books tend to do, which is the story ends. Then there's a period of a few months that happen in between the beginning of the next story in which a lot of things get resolved off camera. I'm not saying the important things like the relationship between you guys kind of resolved off camera, but I can't and shouldn't happen. But you finding a place to Roberto finding a new job. I definitely going to change my character around his business is his top thing that he has. Yeah, he's got these really has resources that he was. Well, the mom is still after him. Right. He's got to find a job and he's got to have money. So there's something that's going to happen. In fact, I think you're still in the hole for 45 large. Right. Okay. But now you have, but now you have means that you didn't have before. And maybe you don't like being pushed around by Tony. So I was going to kill all the ghouls attacking this casino in the mob boss, but I blew them up a little prematurely. So I'm going to do something else. You know, I read a really neat quote. I'm going to paraphrase it, but it's eagerness for battle is a merit to a soldier, a dangerous quality and a captain and a outright crime and a statesman. So in a way, it's like, I acknowledge and agree tactically, yes, opportunity, but bigger, more important, other resources, other issues. You know, the whole need to know type of thing. Not the least of which when you act on your own, you're a loose cannon played by your own rules. And I don't want to become the police, the police commissioner who's doing this. We haven't gotten to the part about Dresden as a role-playing game in general, but we, and we will. No, I'm not saying your statement is bad, but I think in the creation of John's character, Roberto, there are other games where people do dick things, not to say that he did, but they'll do something that's dick like steel from the party. And they'll say, but that's what my character would do. Right. In Dresden, it's a little- It's not like you don't agree with that. No, I doubt. It was a voice, wasn't it? In Dresden, it's a little different because your character is defined by the aspects. And John's characters was defined by those aspects. Yes, he had an aspect that said he was a boss. I mean, he was employed by London. That was an aspect, but he had a much bigger one, which was his defining aspect, which was- He was guardian of Cleveland. He was defender of the people. And there's parts of it. And he did what? He didn't seem like doing that job. He's like, "Oh, good, there's a warden that can do that now." Yes, Michael was doing that job on a larger sense. Yeah, well, he didn't see it that way. Well, that's not- But, right, you can't just say, "Gary of Cleveland, he's right." Because- No, I'm sorry, "Gary of Cleveland, he did what his character would do." Yes. So Verteau's introduction to Abgail or Constance was that she was an untrustworthy enemy that we could only convince because we had leverage. And for us to be placing a hostile vampire in her care was not a step forward in his mind. Right. Hostile severely weakened cripple. No, you are using the wrong hug, though. Adjectives here is bloodthirsty, vicious monster, positively feral. She has lost all sensibilities. I mean, there was- Right. The two things that I saw was that if she got away in her crazy mind with Abigail, Abigail could maybe, since she's powerful, find a way to put her back together again and set her loose again with her mind somehow. Because she's got- Competition with her. She didn't want to- It's attacking her. It's also family. So you never know. You never know what she could do. Well, if she died, that she was not coming back to myself, but at that same time- And now you knew if she died, that we have an Abigail against us for the rest of our lives. Exactly. So that's where I was torn, and I was holding on to her at the end, saying, "What do you guys want to do? Do I kill her or do I let her go?" I told you exactly what I wanted to do. But you chose not to do it. No, I messed things up, and then he was trying to- I was trying to get things back under control. I know. And you just said, "What do you want me to do?" And I said, "Hit her as hard as you can. We all have to follow through." Which I plan on doing. Which you didn't do. But you hugged her. You hugged her. He said, "Hit her as hard as you can and you hugged her." But no, by the time I had a chance to do that, you were talking about it. I just didn't understand what you wanted me to do. No, no, no. It is. Don't joke. This isn't a joke. Good. You're telling me to kill her, and at the same time, you're telling me we can't kill her because Abigail is here. I guess I'll have to listen to how I said it, but I thought I was extremely clear that, "Okay, once it's torn, it's torn." Once I saw that the group decided to let's try to end it and kill her anyways, she got ripped out of my hands and thrown. Abigail stopped. I can do about it. I can't remember if that was just you diffusing a situation that was escalating or what. I don't remember, so... So you'll be equally interested in what you think about it? I'm really looking forward to it because I'm trying to remember how things went and like, "Wow, it's like..." I think about it. I just see red for it. Whenever you try it, I think the last three episodes were '98 was phenomenal. '99 took a dip. It was kind of good, but it wasn't stellar as '98 was, the one that just came out. Oh, '99? And then a hundred that's kind of come out to five. Well, '99 is going to be back up to the top. '99 was good. '99 is taking the deep breath while the big thing is... Okay, everything's under control, right? No. If you really wanted to piss people off you and have a short episode and have it end until we were just walking away and he says, "Okay..." Actually, what I'm going to do, and this isn't going to release until after the episode does, but what I'm going to do is when you start doing the thing where you're walking away, as you're walking away, I'm going to put the clothes off. Music starts to fade in slowly, and then you go kind of drop out. No, we're not that. We're not going to do it. That would be hilarious. So cute. But that's, you know, that broad stroke is what people like. You got to do the right stroke. If you didn't, they'd be disappointed. I finally do it, so that'd be cool. Yeah. You could compare the thief who steals from the party and say that you're not driven by your alignment to the same degree as you are in D&D, as you are with Dresden, being an aspect. My aspect is the same, so I don't know what it'll do. If you had a character who really role played his character and he was really trying to play chaotic good, then it's his high concept. It's his defining feature. Right. But how many different ways is there to read the audio? Sure, sure. Is that the way he read it for his characters? What? More part for you. He's going through a struggle where he is trying to remain pristine and using evil power. And you know that never ends good, but it's the beginning of the arc. Don't tell me Frodo, but here he is being pristine and doing the right thing. In his mind, she can't leave. And it was something interesting because I went back to... Does it cause us a lot? Sure. What cost is expected, she can't leave. I went back to read some of the source material and it's not clear, but I think he's still considered fully human, even though he's possessed by the demon. So, like the knights, usually when there's, you know, denarian activity, the knights are pinged about it. But the role is now... We have a disagreement on that. I mean... You can't say we don't have a disagreement. I disagree with you, so we can disagree. I don't think you're really disagreeing with me. I think if you go back and listen, you can go back and listen to what is inside your head. I think you'll find that you actually do agree with me. I think... Go to the tape. That's all I'm saying. Go to the tape. I think that you have this interpretation of the knights that they know where all denarians are and they show up just in time. No. They've got works and mr.s way in points in points. I think there's only three knights and there's 30 denarians, so they're spread thin. Here we have a denarian that is extremely low key. Right. Up to this point, the very end of the story, you would have had no indication that he had it. My point is that Hellfire has been thrown. Well, maybe that's a ping on God's radar and he's still got to convey it to the knights. If God works in mysterious ways and kind of pushes them, he might have went, "Okay, this is getting a little eye control." But this is getting a little eye control. I would also like, I think it was Jim that came up with like, "Well, we're inside the bubble that is the emblem." That's a good point. And one thing I want to avoid as running the Dresden... I don't want Dresden to show up. No. I don't want the knights to come walking in and solve your problems. I don't want the warden's to come in. So we actually just got... You're the warden of Cleveland. Yes. At this point in the story, we're still before the red... Well, we don't want it to spoil it. But we're still about in the middle of the books. There are plenty of warden's around and there is a warden over your sector of the coast of the United States. That you report to. There's got to be someone you report to and we should flesh that out next time we play. Okay. Yeah, I don't want it to be hairy. No, it wouldn't be. Well, this is the stuff I want to avoid. Okay. It's something that the person in Cleveland and the person in Chicago would report to. Right. Right. The North East Quadrant. Well, he's in the White States. My opinion on the knights is that they wouldn't address me until I became like a threat. I don't even... I'm sorry. The other people I've used my power against have been black court vampires and ghouls right today. Well, my... My view on the knights of the cross is that if they knew you had a demerian, that they would want that back as soon as they found out and they would press you and go after you. But you wouldn't want that coin back. No, the reason there would not be dangerous now. You might not be dangerous now and you might not be high on the list of... If they were having areas that were going to break. We're going to call for sure. Maybe. People want that coin and you don't think you should have it and it's going to eventually... Right, but my point is I don't think they know he has a coin. But they don't know. He hasn't done anything to trip any traders. Even if they did, I'm not using it to slaughter civilians like other denarians are doing right now. Maybe they have higher priorities. And then they have to have a list. But... The reason why I was in the book of the knights is how they approach a denarian or what their role is. And the role is he's still considered a human and he's still technically, even though he's tortured and he's being seduced and corrupted... He's capable. He still has... He's got a free will. He still has a soul. He's got a soul role. So, but my point is that I don't think I can use combat magic against him because I think he's so technically considered human. Oh, okay. I see your point and you definitely agree with him. So you didn't disagree with him. Oh my God. He's right. I can just agree with him. So you can use magic against humans. You can't kill them. But that's what I'm saying. That I can't use combat. He wants it. And then I have to... Oh. Oh. That's where he was going. They want to kill him and I'll have to use my sword. I'll have to... He can't use magic. He's going to have to kill you. Oh, I can still kill you. I can still use hard. You can run you over the car. If you can teach him to laugh and then have him break a law, then you can chop his head off. But a huge theme for the next book will be, I think, that decision. Now he... I mean, our story. Yeah. I tried it with the next Joseph book. I don't know what this decision will be. I think the gameplay will affect that decision. But a climax I foresee for the next book will be trying to bring about a crucible where that decision, his choice, has to be made. Can he shake off the demon? Do we give him the... We have to give him a chance to do it. And if he does, then there's consequences. I'm sure we'll have to play out. Yeah. And if he doesn't, there's consequences that we'll have to play out. But I would imagine that would be a common thread through the whole next book. Not just not the only one, but a main one. Right. Which I think would be very rich and full of really neat crunchy drama. I'm not giving anything away. No. All right. We have your general, like, how we finished the story. So we'll go into the actual questions. I had a list of six of them in which I wish to discuss about this. Something we probably should have done in the world of darkness. We'll try to remember that moving forward. But the first one is, what did you guys think of the Dres and Fals RPG? I mean, it's the first time the majority of you have played fate. And the first time we played with two new players. Let's just start on the left. John, what do you think of Dres and RPG and fate? I could have written better aspects, but I liked how the ones I had pushed my character forward. After I had a character development, like I became rule lord, that became one of my aspects. And I was able to use it in pushing my character's agenda or just in developing overall. I mean, you haven't played a lot of different role playing games. You've played savage worlds and being briefly. Very briefly. And now Dragon Age, how would you equate Dres and how does it fit into that? I had a world of darkness. This is the first one I've played where character development was easy for me to play out personally. A character arc helped define your character more fully. It was easier to envision it in my head and to bring it to the table, acting it out. Okay. It was the first time you've ever played a fate system game. There were things I liked and things that I still think I'm a little rusty at. The character creation, I think. Yeah, you did struggle a bit and I think part of it was the openness of it. You prefer a little more choosing from a list. More structure, yeah. More structure. You wanted more. Well, more examples. Aspects you really can't choose from a list. They should be unique to your character. I think I also, to be expedient, I constructed the character with a power of power. Just like two stats all the way up, I think up to exceptional or high. And if I were to do that again, I'd build like more pyramid where I can do maybe one or two things good. But have more options. You lack of physical stress. Yeah, I think it's just my... Who was that? There was a total disbelief from a number of us. Why don't you have two? You don't have a third stress back? Right. So I just, I think that was just my ignorance of how the characters could be worked. One thing that I liked, but I liked the storytelling aspect of it. I liked how the fudge dice came into play and very belied some of the event or the actions. However, I'm not sure if I liked the scale of the dice. You know, because I had, we would see these efforts and the effects. Too many effects. Yeah, and just, you know, like, okay, how were you so quickly recovering from my epic attack? Right. Or didn't I just do something epic? Shouldn't we all be sitting and watching it off? I was kind of upset when I hit Constance when she was under London's spell. And she had some cloak of bullshit that she wasn't damaged at all. I threw, like, 16 fake points into it and I'm like watching it go down the drain. And I was like, that was epic epic. It's stacked. There was a 14 there. How did that fail so hard? Well, first of all, she was close to God's status. Yeah, and she almost did all those fake points. Because there's five of you going up against one, which means she's got to take five hits through all the stuff. And I threw all the things out there. And I didn't bump her up. I made her intentionally very strong because I wanted it to be a very difficult combat. However, when you throw a epic epic. Yeah, an epic squared punch. And she shrugs it off. Then my next move is... I'm going to hold it now. There you go. I was like, that was all I had. Good best shot, guys. Montgomery out. So... Scott, what did you think? I know you're not a huge fan of Dresden to begin with, but... The books? No, not so much. But that's just personal preference. I mean, everyone has... They're obviously wildly popular. So I'm obviously in a minority as far as... And the convention I told some people that you were not a fan and you couldn't get past like the first and second. Couple books. I just couldn't do it. Oh, no. You should have went to the third or fourth one. To start off. Yeah, and I may actually... Yeah. So I thought that you guys are hearing in your head that you're never going to recover from it as well. You're not. And I don't know if that would color, because I'd like to think that could at least put it to the side. Yeah. And I'm sure he got better as he wrote them. So I don't want to piss off the entire... Absolutely. That reads, like, universes. First one reads like a novice artist. Well, I think he was a very young person when he first published it and he grew as an artist and as a writer. But anyway. Yes. And so, yeah. I mean, depression. And I do it almost for comic relief during the story, because, I mean, somebody's got to be the contrarian. And that was London for this particular story. But yeah, the fate system, I would probably place it just right around the same level of World of Darkness that I enjoy playing to be slightly below that. Or the Darkness is your favorite. I would have to say, if the systems I've played so far, World of Darkness is my favorite. I get what John's saying with aspects and forcing you to role-play them because our first World of Darkness story was very heavy on role-playing. But we also played with a very veteran group on that first story where I think people knew their characters or knew how to explore their characters and grow them. Whereas, you know, I think a couple of younger players would have a harder time in World of Darkness because you don't have those aspects driving your character development. So I think they're really useful. And I think I said... You could still role-play bad in Dresden. You could create more aspects because aspects are not easy to create. But I think they are helpful. I mean, to help you define your character. I never knew a character better than I knew London where I sat down at the table the first time because of that grueling, you know, city and character development which I found... Which is the next question, John. But yeah, I'll just... Before we get there, Luke. Yeah, I'll just go off over that real quick. So from a system I felt like we were overpowered. I didn't feel in danger enough. I didn't feel a sense of... Well, and again, I think it's different. World of Darkness, you're supposed to be feeling horror and drag and fear. This is more of a mystery being... Well, that's how we played it. Yeah, being unraveled. You know, we're unraveling a mystery. So there wasn't the same sense of fear or foreboding. I think the fights in particular that you were not scared of... Yeah, it was due to the fact that a lot of our group is melee or fight-oriented. And I had some fate dice. I just felt like I could always get out of a situation by throwing some fate at it. That is not... As a GM, that's one of the challenges... I'm sure. ...of dressing is if the players want to do something and they have fate points. Yeah, they can. They can do it. Right. And I found myself, you know, having to almost undercut myself sometimes so that we found ourselves in disadvantageous situations where I couldn't just... And we might have started at a too high of a level. Maybe. I think we could have started at much more human levels and there'd be more... Yeah, but you're supposed to be able to start at a high level and then play a game that's along... The two starters. And that's fine. Maybe I'm supposed to... The starters that we did before this were at a lower human level, so I think this is a nice devil level. Yeah, it was a nice change of pace. Right. I just mean, I never felt that panic. Didn't care for the starter adventures. Oh. Not at all. I thought they were crucial in learning the game for most of the game. Absolutely. The question is, how do I feel about fate? I think it does an excellent job. To help people role play. To tell a story, which is what this group prefers. That said, we don't have a couple of number crushes. Yeah. A couple of statisticians or what kind of who enjoy that aspect of it. But really, we like to tell a story. We like to be intrigued. We like to be in some other games. We like to be scared or horrified. We love the mystery. So, it did a really great job of people role-playing. The combat. Eh. I didn't tend to agree with that. Yeah. Yeah, I just, it's kind of mushy. There are times I liked it and times I didn't. Yeah. And I'm trying to think of what was it the final engagement I felt was a little bit better. And the first fight I had, or we had with the dogs and Megan and crispy brews at the-- Oh, you have to be crispy. Soon to be crispy brews. Soon to be crispy brews. I kind of liked that one a little bit more too, but some of the middle ones just felt like-- I thought the Hannah theater dragged on because we had three factions. Yeah. I was trying something there and it kind of failed. Eh. But again, that all goes-- I think that combat was more of a pace situation, which of course is the hardest-- I think it's the hardest talent or a skill that is-- But we got to agree that fate handles social combat much better than any other system. I have not found any system that handles social combat better ever tries than the fate system does. That's one of the things I did, comparing this combat system to the other combat system. It is nice sometimes to know that I can look at my character. I know I'm hitting-- I'm rolling this number on this dice. GM knows he's rolling this number on this dice. I'm going to hit the guy. Here's the number I'm rolling. Here's the number I'm rolling against. Boom, boom. It's done with the fate. Let's see. I got an ass back. Let me see if I can make up a reason why I can use it. Let me see if it makes sense. It takes a lot longer to get to the point where you actually can roll the dice and just go where some of the other games you just boom boom. I know what's going on. Here's the numbers. I hit them or I don't hit them or the other one. You're forced to put a story into it into an aspect just so you can swing your weapon or punch somebody in the face. I guess to wrap up my thought is just that there's four E on one side of the equation. To me, there's-- in the games I've played, I've probably played maybe just five or six roll playing. Well, no, it's not true. I've probably played closer than 10 in my lifetime. Fate is on one end. History is on the other, and world of darkness is to me somewhere in the middle. And I enjoy that middle ground the most, but I also like fate as well. So we come in probably second as far as all the systems I've ever played. The scale goes from crunch to hand wavery. To fluff? Yeah, and crunch to fluff are not really fluff. It's that way. It's that way. But hand wavery as a verb, I guess. Well, I think you're too social. You're too social conflicts with constants, and we went into their office at Clinton Clinic, and then the phone conversation at the end. And I think there was a few in between there that were pretty decent, too. Those are pretty well done. I agree. That's why I rate the system as high as I do. Because combat-wise, not really thrilled with the combat system for fate. I really love the social aspect. Characterization, social combat. Yeah, character does. Social combat. And just, I wonder if that conversation could have occurred between you and I and another system. And those? Because we had, for those of our fans who've listened to The World of Darkness in our first story, Winston Tate, you had a couple of... But in there, I don't think there was any mechanics supporting that. That was simple role playing without any mechanical consequences. And there are definite consequences in this social comments, things that you can tap, come back to, and use. Yeah. Which is why I think it handles social combat better than anything I've ever seen before. I guess I was just saying I think it could still do it in other systems, but it wouldn't have the same punch. Which is why it's ranked as highly with me as it is. I would say it's my second favorite system at this point. And that's saying a lot for Jim to jump into it with very low expectations. With that, your example of the two conversations that you had and how well they want. They did something pretty good when they're edited, but when you're not part of that, and you're sitting here playing it out, and you put all the roles in, and all the discussions about the roles, and what aspects sometimes it can get a little long, a little winded, and it's been like, yeah, it's been an hour since, an hour and a half of this conversation. I'd like to do something too, you know, how many times they have to say, I'm trying to win this conversation. You're trying to win this conversation, and how many ways can you try this? It's also the feeling of playing with five or six people. Right. Because you've got to give each person a chance to shine, and that-- I'm trying to do a better job of letting people go off and do their own thing. Yep. But that means people are sitting around while they do their thing. Right. I think it's going to happen to you, or any system. Yeah. You're going to have six people who are going to have different ideas. You've got to let one of them shine each night. Maybe hopefully two or three shine each night. Right. Maybe three people who don't shine that night. You sit around twiddling their thumbs. That's going to happen in pretty much any system. That's true. And lastly, Thomas, you're probably in the hardest spot, because everyone's discussing anything about fate already. Ah. Come on, everything. I guess I'll go back to something. I think Mike said it about just how often majorly high value successes happen. That's grammar-tastic, but I'm going to stick with it. It doesn't seem hard to get them in this always. Your high role is always matched to their high role, so it's-- Yeah. It's almost a thing I like. Like, there are parts of it that I very much enjoy, and that is that when your character is good at something in fate, they're good at it. They're unmistakably good at that skill. I have a five athletics. It's the best thing on my character, and I can't be touched in combat because of it. It's difficult for you, I'm sure, but it makes my character good at that. Just the range that your dice allows, only negative four. You can't even get a negative number. I do, in fact, like the fudge dice aspect of it. It's a very small swing, and one of the things I discovered as we tried other systems is I don't like D20. It's too big of a range of numbers. I can roll a one or a 20. That's a massively different thing, and it's totally random, whether it happens or not. Dice pulls in World of Darkness. The more skilled I am, the more dice I get. The bound to get a success and all I need is one. That's a good mechanic. Even when you do get a success. D and D is the fact that I'm rolling something that has a huge range of numbers that, okay, this thing has an armor class of 35, and I've got my magic, my situation, my strength, and I get plus 18 to a roll, but it's still a range of one to 20. Well, that's what I mean. It's like, I did like the, okay, I just need one number versus I have to do this quick math thing, and then you have to roll a range of 16 to drag it in. You still have to roll within a range of-- Right, but in Dragon Age, you're all three six-sided dice, and you add them together. You've got a curve. You've got a bell curve. What's normally going to happen? Faith, you're only rolling four dice. What's normally going to happen is you're going to get-- Yeah, if you're super good at it, and you roll a lot of minuses on your fate, you're still going to be good at it. And then you still have the option to throw faith points in to make yourself back up to good. But anyways. What I was going to go on with that, just the wide range of applications every skill has, you often end up with situations where people are rolling ridiculously high successes every time, and that's not necessarily how the system works. I'm sure there's people who play it closer to the rulebook and pay attention all the time to catch stuff like that. We ended up rolling, I think Scott was able to use-- Presence, presence, everything, probably too much. Just about everything. And we can discuss that later on. I think it even hits the better. My presence. [laughter] I know someone hit you because of your presence, but that's a different-- Yeah, but as far as the fate system goes, it was the first time I played it. It was a little hard to get used to. I think the worst part about it decides the city creation, which is good to have and to know all that and to put all that into the city and know the city ahead of time is a grind. But the hardest part, I think, was making the character and trying to come up with aspects when you had no idea what to think of and how much farther it is. That's true, making another character now would be much easier, I would imagine. Bob's going to have it so weak. I came up with aspects that would be better than the ones I had as I was playing my character rather than my character. In the time between two adventures, I got no problem. You guys totally agree. I think time has been an important point that you're going to be much stronger the second time around, Tom, in saying, you really need to use diplomacy or whatever-- I don't know, I learned my character cheating from me. Whatever skills might be, not present. Right, not to allow you. Would definitely fudge the skills around. Which would maybe answer-- But again, that's part of my style. Part of the problem. And perhaps I'll let that one get a little-- Well, but it was, again, it was your first time with this group. So I think it's kind of natural to have that happen. The second question I had was, in fact, on city creation. So I'll start, go back to Thomas, what did you think of city creation? Well, the city creation? Well, we're going to go back to this because he has an easy time. Yeah, I'm sure everyone will be all up and ready to tell you how grueling it was, because it was. Yeah, I left with a headache. We focused too much on the vampires. And that is now a problem because we're not even going to be dealing with them, but-- It's not a problem. Well, the city is a living city. It's like your character's aspects change. Constance is no longer a major aspect in the city of Cleveland. Right now. In the same sense that she was. But the aspect has to change. City creation on its own, I really thought was an important part of it because, I mean, it's very different from other systems. In D&D or anything, you're playing in a place that's already been made up or it's all set in stone. But when you do city creation here, the entire group gets to add input on what they want to see, what they're going to be seeing, even if they don't want to. And what kind of places are going to be important in the city? No, I think it was good at generating venues that we were going to interact and have access to or do stuff with. My point goes right into that. My aspects were that I was a guardian of Cleveland, but never was there a face where we had somebody who represented how Cleveland was suffering under the heel of vampires who preyed on them or ghouls that ate them. And I couldn't ever point to that and say, "This, Warden, this is what you're failing to protect." But I thought that's not something. I don't want to step a note between that. But that's my guy's moral delight and there's no word to it. You're failing already! You just got it. No, I just got it. What? It sucks. I'm in D2. What's happening? This is my bus ticket. This is my bus fault. Got to stay him. Welcome to the city. I think John Brooks is up a good point, but again... He brings up the point after the game's over. Bring the point up in the middle of the game and I throw something, and then we change an aspect. It was never brought to my attention. I don't have a problem. I'm not making stuff up. You failed. You suck. No, no, it's just me. The next time we play, we need to revise the city. It's all safe for me. The city is a living, breathing character that can change its aspects as session to session, as same as a player. Yeah, that's one of the neat things I like about the World Darkness, which is that kind of puts me back on track. I don't think you have the same thing when you're telling a story in fate. Of course, I'll have to tell a story in fate someday to know for sure. But what I have in each story I make up is a theme and a mood. And whenever somebody says, "I'm going to do this," I immediately think about, "What's the theme of this story?" And how can I bring that theme into action with what somebody's trying to do? So, if the theme for the shitlock story was losing, what is home? How important is home? And can you lose it? And can you find it again? Kind of thing. So, with Side Street Billie, you know, he's living on the street seat. The fireworks have lost their home because blah, blah. Anyways, if someone came to some sense something or someone brought something up, I would always tie it back into the main theme where I don't think this particular system had that little reminder that tapping and sort of like, "Hey Tom, show people suffering. Show just the popular show. Give me a diorama, a quick picture of everyday Cleveland and what they're experiencing." Not from a supernatural lens, but from just a regular lens. And maybe that's what John was potentially referring to. And I think that's just something you have to self-govern yourself in your own head because you don't have that same mechanism in this case. Well, I'm not going to say what I think, John. But it's a good point that we have places in the city that were never used and never visited. And that's not to say we have to ditch them. But as the game goes along, it should mutate. You should have, you know, giants to be more important to defending his neighborhood. Well, who's the face of his neighborhood? Is it a priest? Or is it a rabbi? Or, you know, is it someone, a gang member? Definitely a religious person like that. You can be a gang member who's fighting to keep things out. He's got his own agenda, but he's trying to keep the neighborhood free of supernatural. I like what Scott's saying or suggesting about the diorama. However, I think it's a significant gameplay challenge with us. If you present some of those details or that information... You're going to chase them. It's significant enough that he told us about it, so what's going on? Well, but Mike, couldn't it just be like you guys wake up in the morning, you see the workers getting onto the bus, heads hung low. It's just a picture of what's happening, I think, is what John was looking for. But I also think it's unfair because you were one character out of six and you're dead. I mean, there was a central theme to this story. And to me, the theme to this story was Cleveland Corrupts. That would have been mine, if I had been. It was, and then I didn't think, I mean, what you described is an interesting way to do it. I did not think of it that way. But my major thrust on my story was, here comes a new warden. How far is he going to follow his own mentor down the same path? He's got a choice here. Can you save his mentor at the cost of a child? Or does he save his own life at the cost of a child? Or does he save the child at all costs? What decision does he make along the way? He was the main focal point of the story. For sure. But it's not to say that, obviously, on a one morning when John was being the focal point, or one evening when he's going to the casino. Again, always been back in my mind, just theme, theme, whenever I'm running the story. Talk about the people who are desperate to get their money back, who are losing, and some bump being thrown out the door because, and that bump is something I've lost, this money screaming young, and losing everything he had that moment. Those are probably little things you could do to build up the story and focus on each person's personal theme. But there was an overriding theme that certainly was white for this school. And that's a good idea, and I'll keep that mind in the future. But, again, our styles are a little different, where you do put a lot more into preparation for a game, and I am more of a at the moments for... You are, but if you have a theme, John is down for each character. A couple sentences might make John feel like he was protecting the city more, I guess, as what I was going for. I wasn't just sticking to my theme, although I want to face for what I'm trying to protect. It was just what came to mind because I'm me and this guy. There is also needs to be a contact trial, just to tie his organization into their interests here. And, I don't know, FBI for... Potentially. Yeah. Something on it. Each character has their own little theme that they're working on as well, their own character and theme. But, yeah, I didn't want to take over with a bunch of theme stuff. But I just think it's a really great way to keep, if you got a question to the story, what's the theme supposed to be? How do we like the world creation? This started with the city creation, and I'll wrap it up with this unless anybody's got another point. Horrible, horrible, long, long, long, horrible. It was really horribly wrong. And it's very valuable. It's vitally important because, A, it gave you all an investment in the city. You all got to put stuff in, and you automatically said, "Okay, this is my city." You got to put in the cemetery, you know, everybody got to put in what they thought. It was pretty cool when I came down to the goals and I managed to take over there that I was the face for the under city at that time. Not only that, but it gives you a place for your characters to fit into. Now you can start tying in your own characters into the city that you helped create. I always, in D&D, in any other system that we've played, liked when the players helped design the system that we were going to play in. Because I thought there was an instant buy-in that was in trust because they helped make the setting. Do you think Bob then should help to change up the city a little bit? Maybe he just fills out an aspect, or he contributes a couple things. However, I think the most painful process for me during that was to make four connections to other members in the group. That's the next question, character creation, and go. That's what you found difficult, and I see why they did it. That's obvious why they did it. I see why they did it, but... Was it necessary for a seasoned group of roles? If it was supposed to establish bonds of camaraderie and friendship, I don't think it depends on the group. If I hadn't chosen this character, we might be best bothered. This is something that has happened for 15 years. This isn't something that is unique to this system or this. It was hard to come up with the effects, and then I couldn't remember them once they did. One thing that bothers me about fate is there's too many aspects for your character. There really is just too many. If you say you take that out of the loop and say I don't have to have a relationship with everybody else, I'm just going to make up my own aspects, there's a lot of them. There's seven of them, eight of them. I would say seven. As a storyteller, as a GM... Trying to remove five fucking aspects. You've got six players. Didn't you have six players? No, this is you five. Bob, I have one. One, two, three, four, five. I am kind of Bob, sorry. When I was really... So there's 35 different aspects that I've got to keep in my mind to somehow make them relevant. That's not going to happen. Unless you have a key aspect, your high concept aspect, which is... Maybe one from each of you and try to intertwine them, but you've got one or two. Then you've got six aspects sitting there or seven aspects sitting there doing nothing. And you can build them in such a way that they could be useful. For the most part, I had a bunch of aspects that did nothing. Right, right. Which is one of the things I hated about my character when I started out. But it's kind of fun rereading the books now. Is I'm reading them? The signing aspect. I'm almost like... He just said it. He does like bullies. There. There's his aspect. You know, I've found it. He won't... He'll nail them. And it's a little bit of distress. He can't say no to a woman in distress. Boom! These are beautiful when I start writing them down. Oops, did I burn that down? It's almost... When you play your character and you figure out who he is, you find aspects that he would have that are way better than what he made during character generation. Right. But it hasn't happened yet. The way I hope it is every time we start and the way I wish it is. You want to go home and try and get in my car. All of our governments should have an aspect where he likes everything neat and orderly. Well, I'm not trying to make my personal anal return that has come into play. It's just part of it. It's one of the things, though, that the hardest part of launching any type of role-playing game is why the hell is this diverse group of people together. And I prefer you tend to go with just the expedient, and let's just accept that boom. You look like I trust worthy individual. Well, you know, believably. Because you're trying to role-play, like I said, my character at the end of this last adventure is... And I think I had this conversation with you. Why would I happen? I'm having a hard time envisioning any scenario why I would ever call upon these people again. Like I want to like you. You just have to protect humanity better. You're not doing a good job. I am the moral authority here. That's my idea. Yeah, I know, I am the... Who inside your moral authority? For me. Who the weather does? You don't respect anyone's authority. Or at least not mine. Yeah, pretty much. So, like I said, there were these moments where I felt like... Didn't we have like three connections that said that we work well together or something that... Just that we knew each other. I necessarily worked well together. I'm not saying that I don't want change or that it evolves. But it's a challenge not unique to Dresden. But again, in general, I think we all liked the characters. But there was definitely some problems with the character creation. For instance, I still think that there's too many aspects. I think if you could like give me three. Your key three. Two of them are your high concept and what troubles your character. That's the funnier character. They can't be there. All right. Troubles load. And then I'd say maybe one or two more. See, I didn't find the seven too much because I was a player. And as a player, the seven weren't too much. I felt like I used all seven on London. Okay. I felt... Really? 'Cause I heard I'm London a lot. But I'm London. Was it your high concept? I'm London. In front of your name. My high concept. London. However, I did like concept in London. I did like how I kind of gained an aspect that kind of find a lot of things by the whole... I think the mother's ghost possessing my hands. The dynamic came in with it. And that also gave you some leverage, a handle on me to make things happen. Well, I found it humorous the way you phrased it. I liked the way you gave ideas. You said, "I'll even allow you to do this to my character." But you would give ideas on how I could use aspects for you. It just seemed humorous anyway. I would allow permission to go to the game. You want me invested in my character? No, you know what I said. It was really... 'Cause otherwise, you're just telling me what you want me to do. Yeah. I like that. I'll send my monitor. I can pay it home. And honestly, I gotta say, I like the way these two guys, Jonathan and Thomas, they knew the rules cold. Better than any of us by far, including me. Never had a problem saying, "Hey, this is wrong. This is the way it should be done." Often to the detriment of the group. Or even them in particular. They have no problem. It's a genetic quality. It must be because we... In general, we... Right. It's more about the story. No, I don't think anybody tries to lawyer the rules. Yeah. Or hurting themselves. You didn't notice that, so I'm not going to do that. Yeah, well, we're not trying to out-compete each other. We're not trying to munch in the greatest character in the world here. But I thought I had some fans mentioned. Where did you guys look at me? I had some fans mentioned. You're both different. You're both different. No, I was considering my character. I had to lower my weapons, 'cause we're just too good at fighting as a group. Well, that's what I mean, like the tower of power. You need more constitution. I would like to almost revisit the whole character. Yeah, I'll help you with that. You're not sure about magic? I'd like to say that as far as you know. Do you know it well? No, I don't know it well. But I'd like to... I'd like to... I'd like to have a pyramid. You should have a man on the tower. A fake character for you. There you go. To get back to the question at hand, I felt that the character creation was actually a strong point for the system. As I said before, I knew London about any character I was ever getting ready to role play, because he had seven aspects that I believed in that I knew that I formed. Now, the ones with other characters wasn't particularly compelling, but I felt like I knew how London was going to react to every single situation that came up without a ton of forethought or dilemma inside my head. Or artificially constructed personalities. A lot of games, it's like I have a strength of 18. I'm the strong man. That's the defining feature. Right. The defining things in fate are aspects which are sentences that describe your character. Right. Your character is defined. I don't know how you could go into this game and not at least have a pretty good idea how you're going to role play your character. Yeah. Unless you're really actively trying not to role play your character. I mean, just because London was London, he had the aspects he had. I mean, there was still things like orchids and wine and Brazilian women and bubble baths with... A man. With some Roman shoes. Yeah. But, I mean, those are all add-ons to just kind of like ornaments on the cake. But you had the cake and you just had to kind of fine tune it with a couple different elements to really make the character pop that weren't aspects, right? Like, again, him knowing about orchids and bringing that new conversation with Abigail, that just, to me, it just came to my head like he would totally know this. It wouldn't be like, "Hey, let's talk football." It would be orchids or wine or something ridiculously fufu because he's London and that's just what he would do. And without those aspects to build that cake, I would not have known necessarily... I don't think the ornaments would have fit on quite as well if I hadn't of built up the characters. I'm very impressed with the character generation. Alright. Next question. What worked in the eventual delivery and what could I have done better? I think one of the things that we've always come up with is pacing. Pacing. So hard. Pacing, pacing. So that's one of the things I could have done better. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't always there. Meaning, it wasn't always negative. I mean, there was very few times actually when you're pacing needed help, but... There was a couple. There were a couple and the goal fight was... It was a glaring one. As a GM, I would have watched it. It should have been crazy and that's interesting and fun is that should have been... It wasn't. I also felt it was starting. It was an interesting idea that it didn't really can. Don't do it next time. To foreshadow the ending. It was entirely wrong. I think to compel aspects to know the player's aspects better on your sheet, you should have... I did. It should be hanging up there. It was. It should be rules and stuff and then everybody's aspects. This is the first way you started it that you would have known if it would work on it unless you tried it. Maybe you could even... I know you don't prep a lot. I don't think that I do. I'm spending like five hours. I don't probably spend maybe two hours a week maybe prepping if that. But you could save yourself. I know there's going to be a scene this week with Abigail and the group talking at a restaurant. You kind of look at the aspects and kind of pre-think about some things you could bring up. Okay, I didn't know if you did a few occasions looking and go, "Oh, in the coming scene that's coming up, these are ones that I can likely trigger." I sort of have a problem with forcing players to do something. Right. It feels railroading to me. Yeah. But I mean that's the way Fates designed and you're telling me by writing those aspects that that's what you want to be told to do. Right. That's not what we are. Right. And it's not so bad but still a concept I have to work on and I know I can get better at it. Yeah, I think everyone said it but social combat. It was my character too which makes it seem like it's a slanted angle but I think I would respond to this for anybody. I mean, I think that the fact that John and I, if we wanted to, could get into a social disagreement and I could compel him to do something. That sounds great. Yeah. That sounds great. Let's go back. I think that that's kind of a really huge plus for the system. Of the things that didn't do well, it equally did social combat exceedingly well. So anything that failed at, it certainly compensated for that failure in social combat. The story, the twists at the end that were both player driven and GM driven I think worked. It was a strong story. To me, I didn't think it was going to be as strong as it was by the time it ended. You know what I'm saying? It started off slow and it got building and by the time we got to the middle of the story, I think everyone had found who they were as a character for the most part. And the story got a bit more complex again through both our interaction and yours I think. And then the twists at the end and it was a really strong story. And I think you'd have a hard time topping that story. You could maybe equal it, but I think it's a really good story. The story went really well. I liked the way it started. I like where we went in the middle of it. I like how you... I will credit my daughter on a drive to Upper New York, dropping her off to college. Her and I sat and discussed the whole plot before it started. I hired a writer as well. There you go. This is what I'm thinking. What do you think? And she would get ideas like, "Oh yeah, I like that. How about this?" Yeah, and it was just a little organic. Yeah, something like that. I did enjoy the resolution to a point. The part that really kind of sang for me, because I don't know why it was a stupid inexperienced thing in my part, but I was hoping that Donovan was just a wrongly accused. And when that whole thing in the Cleveland Clinic came down and I'm bracking my brains trying to collect the evidence. Seriously, I thought you were going to kill Donovan. I was prepared to. And I'm like, "Oh fuck, where does this go now?" But that's what I... He's in the final scene. Right. Right. But I was at this point where I'm like, "Well, it was a great moment for me where I was growing." You know what? It's going to be a disguise or he's going to be a seeming of someone else, because... I'm going to kill him. I mean, but I also felt I didn't want to kill him. I was looking for a way out, but there was no way out. And even after that point, when you were doing an investigation, you were like, "No, no." No, he didn't do that. I did. It was a really strong role-playing performance around the table. We're talking about things that went right. The only people there are you and Mike's. No, no, I meant around the table. The entire game. The aspects. The story really lent itself to some really good role-playing. We have good role-players. And a part of that is the group is really comfortable with each other, whether because we're all close in real life. We're throwing a bunch of people together here. Some of the fans have complained about the story, the way we play in general. That is something that's probably never going to change. Man, I don't think that's going to change. I think it's something we enjoy. And if they don't as fans, then I'm sorry. The only reason it's going to pick up in it may is when we get more comfortable with the system you're using. But you guys are going to poke your nose into every corner and you're going to sit outside of a door and discuss whether or not to open it. And you're going to research every fucking clue. All I can say is thank God we weren't recording the address that we spent weeks on. How do you cut that? Talk about being slow. I attribute some of our slowness, which again could be attributed as a negative by some fans who may listen to it. I contribute the slowness to everyone being really invested in their character. I don't fucking want to open that door. I really don't want to open the door. I'm going to try to convince you not to open the door. Not because I'm being a dick. But because I thoroughly do not want that door open and I'm going to role play it. So instead of just saying, okay, let's all open the door and move in, we all play our characters. That's going to be the indie characters which we probably get in the indie too. Do we want to open it or how are we going to open it? We don't want to bust through and kill everything and get all the treasure. We all want to live to see the next day and not get our characters killed. Yeah, I mean, I think the genre itself lends itself to a little slower pace. Mysteries aren't really known for being unless they're an action mystery. It doesn't really lend itself to a quick, quick story. One thing we have to be careful of is that it'd be okay with losing, not necessarily dying. Just losing a fight or something. Sometimes I'll sit there and say, hmm, we get these aspects but they aren't really relevant. I'm not going to be able to throw a fight point at this. Your aspects aren't relevant to the fight you're fighting for. Maybe your character doesn't want to win and give that extra effort to win. Right. So, yeah, I've sat there and done that and I'm like, I guess I want to lose. It's not going to never, never. Can I have the aspects for that? Exactly. Oh my gosh. There's no reason for us to do that. We've got what we wanted and where we want to go. What are we supposed to do? Yes. What are we supposed to do? That was London's point. But again, that's just role points. I think it's going to never go fast but I certainly can say that people who think it's too slow that, you know, we're sorry and maybe there's another podcast for you out there. But we certainly appreciate those who stick it out with us and we definitely enjoy it. We definitely have a loyal fan base. Last question. Since we will be playing another adventure of Dressing's filing Cleveland, what would you guys like to see? I kind of doubt that it's going to be vampires. I'd like to see the horrendous death of Roberto. Does that count? Does it work? What do you want to see? Or maybe we've got the horrendous death. The comeuppance. I was thinking more of redemption. What kind of world do we want to be about? We want our characters in it. That would be what you would think though. I often ask people. I would think comeuppance. You would think redemption. Redemption. I always like to ask one running an adventure, you know, what is it you guys want to see? When I'm running it for the kids like it, what do you want to do? You want to fight a dragon, you want to storm a castle. I mean, what would be like the coolest thing for you to ask? Let's do that. So, in Dressing Files, you got a little more to choose from because we've got a story moving forward. You don't like to see? What things would you like to see more involved in the next story? Because we didn't do it and we're so paranoid about it, I'd like to see us go to the never-never. From my character in particular. Right down my guy considers himself the moral superior to the warden. You want to see the warden's redemption? No. He's riding high on this buzz of superiority and he's going to be that for the next couple of months, pleasing people. But for him to discover that he's not such a moral authority himself or to be for the coin to take its toll. That he is an evil source. So, you start to see the cost of corruption. And for Verdo to be aware of it. So, for that to be obvious to him. So, are you imagining kind of like the road to hell approach where... Yeah, he's doing all these things. He thinks he's trying to fix things and then he looks for what he's done and there's like... You know what we might need to do? Just as an inspiration, I don't know if you've seen it. The Torchwood episode, The Children of Earth. Oh, that was... I did watch that summary that would do. And that was... if you haven't seen it, you're going to have to. I'm going to have to. You're going to have to because, first of all, it involves killing a killing. Which you know I love to do. No, no, no, not killing them. Making them, well, spoilers. Oh, well, those are spoilers for me because I'm going to watch you. This is actually something I don't know. But, you know, it was compelling an A+ science fiction and it was a great story. But it was also like, oh, this is how it would go. And this is just not good. It would go so much worse. That's one of my favorite disagreements of our discussions of the whole adventure was saying, yeah, we're just going to take this baby in and secretly switch it out and make everything right again. And those of us saying, we're not taking that baby anywhere near that situation. It doesn't need to go there. We don't need to put that baby in that danger to begin with. And then when the magic goes away, he's got to just snap it's neck. It'll make work her death. Just snap it's neck. Go hand it to me, I'll snap it's neck. That, to me, was an example of, all right, then why did we bother having connections at the beginning? Because if I'm trying to play where, like, there was really only one magic user in the group, then that was my guy. So it's like, all right, this is kind of-- Well, that's my point. That's my point. As far as I knew. And like, okay, well then, yeah, I am the magic. And this is the magic approach. And this is the trick that I'm trying to pull off. And I'm trying to tap dance down to the knife's edge between the oath and between all these different factors in order to try to achieve a strategic objective for everyone's benefit. Maybe not, you know, everyone's a compromise. And I just thought you tooth a day along the way. And I was just like, well, that's-- At one point, I'm like, all right, great, fine. I'll be down at it in 2.0. And fine, and then blast, blast, blast, blast, and I'll set myself up as a king. And that was kind of my, just being an infant and a baby kind of reacting to it. But I'm just like-- That's what made me laugh about it. This also is where-- I know it's frustrating to you. I don't have a good role playing for me. That's the last one. That's the last one. I have so much conflict in my life that I just exhausted when my chosen recreational activity involves the same kind of concept and stuff that I deal with on a day-to-day basis. And that's where I don't have the power of magic. And I can just-- All right, I don't have a giant warden sword that can-- Right. With a level five-- It's like not all these situations. It's therapy. If it helps, I want to see my character fail next time. I'm not behind my character. I don't need to win, or I don't need to-- It's not that. It's just an example of-- I'm not disagreeing with you as a person. It's just Roberto just doesn't like your guy because he's like not the moral authority. He thinks humans with power should be held to a higher responsibility, and you're not meeting it. That's his gripe here. Sure. You're limited to human opinion. And your masterful wizard opinion is so much better. So that's the conflict there. I'm here to protect people like you, and I will-- Okay, and I'm doing a better job in his opinion. Well, like you said, I've only been here, what, in actual game time, four days? Yeah, yeah, okay. You could have jumped to conclusions. You're also-- My character doesn't have history of fixing things, either. He just stuff this-- And did not pay off part of your debt? I did. No. Well, indirectly. Oh, indirect. Yeah, indirect. Anyways, getting back to the question at hand, what did you want to see, Mike, in the next chapter? Or an exterior mix? I mean, fuck me, no. It could be something-- Besides less stress for your character. No, no, no, no. And that you-- Adventures in this-- It's going to be strong. I mean, obviously it's got to be. How about the story? We've got a new-- We've got a new-- What I would want to see is that we're all in the same boat and rowing in the same direction. Up should creep. You know, and-- Even if we-- Even if that led to disaster or failure-- A good common cause. Common cause. --the things that I enjoy, the things that excite me and make me, you know, just go, right? That's awesome. Is the cavalry charging over the hill, the assembling of people coming together to account-- Hold it. [Laughter] Excuse me. [Laughter] Yes. We had a similar view. I mean, I don't think you could ever get London on board with anything like that. No. Well, I guess you can. I can be part of-- Hey, him enough. Hey, him enough. There you go. Sign up for anything. And I'm fully prepared to call in the one favor that I've got over him which he has to fulfill. I thought that was right. I thought he did that. No, no, no. I came to the end. I negotiated for a separate favor to be deemed later. Damn, I don't remember that. Yeah, I do. Must've been drinking that. When you were fucking me over for all my cash. You mean the money? It doesn't really exist. I'm sure if you go back and listen to the recording. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. Is that going to be the thing? I think you need to go back to the tape. I think you'll find-- Do you think I'll be surprised? Actually, it's going to be my thing that I was going to say. So I'm actually agreeing with Mike. Which, for Scott, isn't all that unusual. But for London, that's very unusual. So we all agree. Maybe the next story. See, I don't think it has to be 3x where this particular story-- These characters are pretty complex. We really have to go three stories now, necessarily. Unless the story you want to tell is the game master. This was a sandbox I created for you guys to play in. There is no end in sight. Now, if you guys want one, we can do that as well. Because sometimes, I don't mind watching a series that there's an actual end to. Yeah. No, there should be an end. Well, I think I don't want to just put it back in. I told you when I want to see Roberto mess some stuff up in the mind that it would be a three story. Yeah. Well, it could be a three-act for your character. Doesn't that have to be for the part? Well, just because you mess up doesn't mean you can't exist. I don't even know what he would happen after he did just the coin or blows up, not ditching the coin, whatever happens. Well, yeah. If he does survive, drips the coin or whatever, what happens to him then? I mean, he lost all his power. He can't defend Cleveland. Well, I mean, I guess my point thing is you're getting your comeuppance in the next story. It doesn't have to be the middle act of a play. It could be the second of five. And you could lose even more in the third. And then make a decision in the fourth and then have your final conclusion in the fifth. It doesn't have to be the same. I don't necessarily see his redemption, however you want to whatever word you want to use to describe it. What redemption? I see. That's why he's doing the right thing. Well, that's what I mean. I see the goal of our next book to be him getting to where that choice is made, where he's got a choice to make. Right. See, that's where I was going was. I would like to see the next story. I don't care what supernatural creature we face. That doesn't matter to me. Obviously, each has its own flavor, but that doesn't matter. What I'd like to see is by the end of story number two that Roberto, and to a lesser degree, London, who already has realized that he needs friends based on Constance chasing his ass all over. I see you'd be horrible. You'd be dead. Right. And that as well. But, I mean, London certainly never said I can go this alone and do my own thing. He knew he needed these people. London started out. It's as tasteful as that was to him. London started out the adventure knowing that he needed people. He thought he had it all. And then it was all take one from the beginning. I'd like to see his little coal heart turn to a little bit. You know, I'd like to see London start changing a bit and grow a bit as the story goes on, but that's not really what I care about. What I care about is by the end of the second story, there is a compelling driving force that brings this group back together despite its differences to make us move forward. A little bit more in story. The conflict that doesn't end. It's something that we have to be, you know, in the future. We have to be, you know, for more than just one story. That doesn't end. That's my all vampires. Three cents. There's always been a bigger story going on in Cleveland. The vampires are just nasty. I think the circle is reflecting all the negative energy. People are collecting that to what end. That's what's holding the city back. That's what's holding the city back and maybe getting rid of it would be the way to get the city started to compete again. Yeah, but our characters aren't aware of that as of now. So that would have to be part of the plot. But there's a bigger story. What I would hope is moving forward, there was still the hidden records of Donovan's research that we're having found those, whether it's in this home or whatever. So either find out, you know, have the time to do that research with this home or all this hidden records. I can't remember. Did Megan get fixed? Megan and Kristi Bruce are supposed to be-- And Abigail is so weird. We're the chief thinks now. And, you know, start seeing these events not as, you know, bigger events, but get a little perspective. I'm like, hey, this is actually, there's connections here. So-- I think it's where all good second stories do. Let's take all the disparate parts of the first story and kind of pull them together. Oh, I do have a plot for the second one. Do these fit into it? And there were things sprinkled in the first one that were definitely-- Sure. We never won two. Darn. I mean, like you don't want to explore-- Well, what's his name? What's his name either played as for a fool or I'm fucking Nelson? Yes, Ryan fucking Nelson is either-- I do remember that Ron Nelson is a star in Australia and the soccer is-- Boy. Yeah. Every time you say that-- Good day. Whatever. One Australian loses his wings and dies or something. He never won. Well, they started out with the Pito County there. Oh. Oh. I don't even that in. Of course. No, I'm not. But then, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things here that, okay-- There's something bigger. There's-- Yeah. There's bigger-- I think what was our on doing there? Our on? I don't know the father's name. We don't know it. He showed at the exchange. Oh, it's his baby. So that's why he's here. No, I think there was deeper. I think there was deeper issue. Oh, yeah. There was deeper story. That's uncharitable. Yeah, I mean-- I'm going to have a dental care and health plan. I'm going to try to see what's going to happen next. He lives in the short tree. But as a heads up for my character, I plan on putting his resources at the very top. Okay. What he has in his organization? He's-- I think he's going to sub-- make a subdivision. Subdivision? Oh, underneath the agency. He had the agency as a front. But his real company is going to be more of a security and-- Security consultant? The consultant type thing where he-- He deals with the security-- sells weapons and things. Are you doing research? We're trying to help them out. He tries to help-- he's trying to help the city give them protection. What they need to defend themselves against. What they need to defend themselves against the crap that's going on in this-- So he's a mobster. He's a mobster. It's something predation. Okay. Exactly what it sounds like to me. You mean he's doing research as well on what kind of attack can be used by humans? You know, whatever it's-- Whatever it's attack in the-- Maxwell had. He's looking for what can be used as a defense against that and get it out to the people-- Maxwell had the UV grenades that knocked out the vampire powers. What? Not for free though. Right. It's like the Obama phones. You know. What? What? The phone's away for anyways. Sorry. Never mind. We're not going into politics. Okay. Obama phones. He's talking about charity to the public to get them on their own team. Or buying a vote. But hey, you looking-- Right. It's politics. Okay. Well, with the discussion of the actual adventure over, we will then go into the feedback from our fans. Okay. That concludes our discussion of Dresden and our Episode 99 feedback. In order to prevent the episode from being over three hours long, I decided to break it up into two parts. The next episode, Episode 101, will include all the answers to the questions submitted to us by the listeners and fans of KOTN. Thank you for your questions. And I hope you enjoyed listening to deliver as much as we enjoyed playing it. And as always, please remember, send in your feedback and questions we love to hear from you. Thanks for listening to Nights at the Night at Actual Play podcast. Visit kotnpodcast.com for more information on this and other adventures, where you will find character stats, photos, storytelling props, and even a forum for comments and suggestions, where you could email us directly at feedback@kotnpodcast.com or contact us via Twitter or leave a message on Facebook. All music for this podcast was created and performed by Zen Audio Smith. If you'd like custom professional music created for your podcasts or business, please visit ZenaudioSmith.com and please join us next episode for more vistory and adventure. [music] [music] [music] (gentle music)