This week I have a discussion with Mark (age 10) and Megan (age 16) about their RPG gaming history. Which games they like best and why.
Knights of the Night
KOTN Actual Play Podcast 61 "Teach Your Kid to Game Week"
(upbeat music) (dramatic music) - Hello and welcome to the Knights of the Night actual play podcast. I am your GM and moderator, Tom. And now please enjoy episode 61. Teach your kids to game week. (upbeat music) And before we get started tonight, we have a couple bits of feedback, both of them from feedback at kotnpodcast.com, our email address. First one is from Brandon. And it's some positive feedback is the title. Do your KOTN team. Hey guys, I just wanna leave you some positive feedback and tell you I really enjoyed listening to your podcast. I live in North Texas, so there's nobody around that would like to play the Dresden File RPG with me. Or read the Dresden File books. So I'm happy to tell you that y'all fill a void as a big Dresden Files fan. I'm happy to say y'all definitely struck true to the overall theme of the Dresden verse. I also think you guys have great character development, which is essential for me. And we're extremely hilarious. I walk to work and home and would sometimes burst out laughing, only to scare the people going by me. It's too bad Mike's not here for the hilarious comments. - Yes, hilarious. Back to the email. Overall, I just wanted to tell y'all are excellent and I hope you keep at it. And I also downloaded the episode of No Means No Woman that you recommended from your other project to see if I like it. But I honestly don't know that much about white wool for World of Darkness stuff. I only played D&D 3.5, but we'll see. Sincerely, Brandon. - Well, hopefully Brandon has listened to the episode of No Means No Woman in it. - Yes. - Enjoyed it and gone back and got the rest of the World of Darkness. Because I don't think you necessarily have to be. - No, I mean, if you like a good story and you can get into the characters, which I think is really the essence, Brandon, if you can, go ahead and give it a listen from the start because the characters really develop over the story. And I think that there is really, I think it sounds like you're somebody who really enjoys good character development. And that was, it's a little darker and a little spookier maybe than addressed in files that particular story. - I think, you know, they're both modern day horror. - Right. - But, Dresden tends to be more cinematic and adventure. - And a little lighter in the story that I'm telling you a little. - All those acts bashing in the head of one guy, you know. - Right, so yeah, there is some darkness. - Oh, yeah, heard the end yet, sorry. - But yeah, just, I didn't give it a listen 'cause I think it's really worth it for the character development. And the story seems to be pretty, got some positive feedback. But thank you for listening to Dresden Files. And we're happy that you're enjoying it. And we look forward to getting more feedback from you in the future as to how you like how the Cleveland story progresses. - And now for the other emails, gotta read that. - Oh, all right, this one is from Justin. Hey guys, I started listening to the podcast a few days ago to kind of find out how the Dresden rules play an actual game. And I can say if thoroughly enjoyed listening to your groups run through on neutral grounds, I started out listening for educational purposes, but I stuck around for the entertainment factor. I specifically love the Emo White Court Virgin's character. For all the despairing quips, he really made me laugh. And I hope you guys are able to get another adventure together soon, which we are. In my quest to better understand the rules, my group comes from a three, four, E, D, and D background. So I have to really know the rules or the game grinds as you look things up. I have also been reading some of the play-by-post games on various forums. And one interesting thing I noticed with your guys game was the distinct lack of declarations. On the play-by-post games, in almost every scene, there is a declaration made by somebody. Be it something as simple as I pull from my bag of feather that has been specially prepared to aid the spell. Roll resources or lure to make declaration or perhaps rolling guns or resources for the declaration of I load the weapon with rounds composed mostly of iron and steel that I carry specifically to combat the fey in this area, all the way up to rolling alertness to say that your character notices and unlocked window to the house, the burglary inept group is trying to break into. The cool thing here is that not all of these things have to cost a fate point, see your story page 116, nor are they action so players can really be doing them quite often. On top of that, these are great ways for characters that are not particularly good at something like the burglary inept group to utilize a different skill in a way that lets the story continue instead of the GM meeting and manufacture ways for a group of characters to succeed on something they normally wouldn't be able to succeed on. Just figure I'd mention this for a couple of reasons. Firstly, to get your group's thoughts on the mechanic and secondly, because I love the idea of the mechanic and would like to see how it pans out in an actual game session around the table. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it. Thanks for a great few hours of edutainment. Justin, well, thanks so much for that email, Justin. I mean, that's some dedication. I mean, you wrote like five paragraphs and that's pretty cool. - And so I think that's cool. I think that someone sits down and would write us an open letter that is that detailed, so thank you. - At least two things I'd like to discuss. One, first off, is we actually, and I wasn't sure how this was gonna go across, but the first game I'd left in editing, I left a lot more of the roles discussion in there than I normally would in World of Darkness, we almost chucked all of that out unless it was relevant to the game or important. Well, in actuality, I think we had less roles discussions because we had played World of Darkness before. - Right, wasn't the first time. - It's also a somewhat easier game system to get-- - More intuitive system to get the grasp of, I'd say. So Dresden, I had intentionally left that in, and this upcoming one, I don't intend to leave as much in, and I don't think we're gonna have as much discussion on roles as we so, Justin's gonna be sad that we don't have decorations. - I don't, no, I'm not saying that. I'm talking about rules discussion where he was listening for educational reasons to learn how to play the game. - Right. - I don't know that we're gonna leave the mechanics in, I'm gonna try to go more story-heavy so that it's easier to listen to. - The flows, yeah. - Yeah, there's a more flow in it. - But there will be rules discussion in short. - I think you can't avoid them, and I don't wanna take them out if they're relevant to the story, and also if it's a very important point in our learning process, then maybe we assume that someone else will learn also. - The story won't have a good grasp of this game anyway, so I'm sure there's gonna be some more discussion. - Sure, yes. - Well, not declarations, I know. - All right, so declarations, first of all, I'd like to defer to John a little bit, because he probably knows the book a little better than I do. Thank you. - Thanks, Deus. - You don't know about declarations? - No, very well, no. - Okay. - That makes sense. - Well, before we get into the actual discussion with declarations, sorry to pitch it off, John, but it would come from D&D background. That was our game for many, many, many years. - Sure. - And that is as traditional as you can get. - Right. - This mechanic of players making up part of the story, declaring something to be true by spending a fake point, or not spending a fake point, is new to all of us. But the fact is also that the Dresden system as a whole is new to everyone, including me. I read it reasonably well, the entire world book, but both Thomas and John read it way more than I did, and the rest of the group like you, Jim, I think-- - Spotted. - Spottedly. - Spottedly, if at all. - Right. - More so now that we use the second story. - No, just when I'm making a character and going over a page of something when I'm trying to find skills or, you know, description of vampires coming to make one, or something like that, it's about only really looked up. - So I'd say declaration is one of those things that when you're the only one that knows the board, the game rolls, and you're explaining the game to someone, and you just forget to really mention a point of it until it comes up better for later, usually, and they curse you. - I have more about how to play the game by doing what the other guy did as you-- - Listening to listen to another podcast of other people playing it. - Done reading it. - So it slips through the cracks. - Part of it is that it slips through the cracks, and the other part is that it's just not a type of mechanic that we're used to having, which is the players having so much control over the story that they get to declare things into existence. I mean, we had some a little bit of discussion on that in World of Darkness, where one of our listeners commented that it seemed like the characters would do that, like the players. - Right, as long as if it didn't-- - It wasn't egregious, you know. I grabbed a club that I keep in my golf clubs, they keep in the closet, and bashed the intruder over the head. - Oh, okay. - Yeah, it makes sense. I guess you could play golf. - It's probably even doing that with this too, is where we don't declare something like, I'm making the declaration that this is the way it is. We just say that the way it is, assuming-- - That might be part of it as well. - That's true. - In some ways, yeah. - You know, we haven't played a whole lot of it, but when things happen in the coffee shop, there was a few times that, you know, people just assume things would be there. Whether I described them there as not or not, they just assume they'd be there, so use them, and we're okay with this. - But certainly a soft declaration. - A soft declaration. I think certainly now that I know it exists, Justin's brought to my attention as a player in the system. I'm certainly gonna try to utilize that in the future, so when Justin, when you're listening to the Cleveland Adventure, which I don't think we have a name, it's just starting out. - Yeah. - Now, you won't hear it for another two or three weeks, but-- - Yeah, hear the Cleveland, soon we'll be coming out with the development of the city, and the follow-up by the character development, and then we'll start the story. And I got a couple different thoughts going through my head. Delivery was one of the possible titles. - Right. Our take two, I thought it would be, but we'll see which one I want to go with and the title of the story. - So I think it will definitely be hearing some of that, I guess, as well as going for there, Justin, now that you kind of brought to our attention and rattled the hornets nest a bit about this rule that we're not using, I think it kind of piqued everyone's interest to look into it, and we are looking into it, and you probably will hear it being used in future games. - Mike did use it at the very end of the adventure, and it was to make the declaration that his van was not signed in his name, and then he lies in the plate. I mean, that whole spiel, which kind of got you guys out of a mess, he actually spent a fake point to declare that that van was not in his name, and it didn't matter if he left it in the middle of the park and let him walk away from it. - Right. - There was no connection to him, and I remember that now that you mentioned it, right? - So it was used in one of our games once, other than the soft declarations, but I think it's something in the next one that we're gonna see more of. - Right. - Also, the fact that we have a bit of a problem with I, GM, I'm not necessarily comfortable with the whole fate economy things, giving you guys enough points that you feel freely to spend them in such a way. - We tend to hoard, at least have the first story. - You tend to hoard them because I'm not feeding enough. - Well, and again, you're learning in making this adventure specific to all of your aspects, I'm hoping that that'll come more freely and easier. - Did you have anything you wanted to mention on declarations in general? - I think Mike did it right when he used a fake point to make a declaration based on his aspect, but skills can be used that one example he said about the guy having iron bullets that he could fight for, that's more a role of his gun skill, so that he's prepared to have that because he uses these guns to do this and that. - It's not a fake point, it's a skill. I'm not sure where the distinction lies though. - So you're making a declaration that you would have had the skill to be pre-prepared, so therefore I don't have to spend a point, but that requires a role to see if that is true or not based on your skill. - I believe so, and it also seemed from Justin's viewpoint that it was an action that didn't take any time, so you could do that in addition to other things, so it's kind of, you're not spending a fake point, you're not using up an action in your turn, because you are making a role, but you are making a role to see if it's true or not. - Right. - Another example in here is a fire breaks out and someone rolls their alertness and says, you know, there was a bucket back there with a janitor, he was mopping stuff up, you could just go back and throw that on there, I noticed it right back then, and he makes up that fact and then rolls his alertness, it's not quite a knowledgeable, it's more of an awareness and then making up the details. - Right. - And I'm not sure when it comes to a fake point, because if it's an office building, it'll have a janitor, and couldn't you just take a fake point and say office building aspect, and then... - I think it comes to a fake point when, like the declaration is, like Mike's, his character Sean, doesn't have his cart registered in his name, and it's not something that would... I mean, I guess it fits his character, but I mean, that's a pretty bold declaration that you've been driving around in a legal vehicle the whole time, and it's kind of outside the bounds of normality, in my opinion, and I guess that's how you differentiate between whether or not something is going to go off a fake point or not, a fake point or not. If you're saying something, at the very beginning of the story, you said, you know, does Dana have a gun, and I might even say, yeah, for a fake point, she does, but in your situation as an office worker, that's just not the norm, you don't go packing a gun everywhere, but maybe you say... - But she wouldn't do it. - Once I got raped, and now I never without a weapon, and okay, yeah, sure, but that's a declaration, because you just made up something about your character to justify something, so that cost you a fake point, in my opinion. - Yeah. - If you're walking into the coffee shop with friends, you're not probably gonna be packing heat. - Right, something's going down. - Right, not in your average every day. Now that something's going down, you want one? Okay, you gotta pay. - Yeah, I think that's reasonable. - All right, with that being covered, then we'll go on to the rest of the episode. All right, this week, we're gonna try something a little different. We're gonna have a short little episode in which we honor the Teacher Kids to Game Week, and then doing so, we're gonna discuss role-playing with my two youngest, Megan, you're 16, where's the hi, Megan? - Hi. - And Mark, who is not 11, but 10. - They said it wrong, it's 11, it's not 11, it's 10. - Last week, we were afraid it was 11, he's not quite 11 yet. - I see, for you, it already did something. - He's 10 and a half, no, that was someone else's fault, not mine. - No, something bad. - At 16 and 10, both of you have played role-playing games before, correct? - Mm, D&D. - Yeah. - Is that your first one? - I think you helped with Star Wars, but I don't know. - No, you didn't play Star Wars. - I was like four. - Last Megan first, so your first game was D&D. - I helped with Star Wars back when you and Erin did Jon, Thomas would play. I played Yoda once, and I played Yoda some bad guys. - No, I almost died. - Yeah, so I stuck to Yoda, but I was an awesome bad guy, I rolled like 20s and-- - So was it D20 version of Star Wars? And in addition to that, you played D&D, what edition? Do you remember? - Something about three, I know it was before or whatever. - So we started with three. - Yeah. - And you played through 3.5, and then fourth edition is the latest one. - So it was before the fourth edition. - Which one of those do you like the best? - I like the one before the fourth edition best, because we had a whole bunch of cool weapons and stuff that we customized, and it was more powerful in the fourth edition, it was a lot more thinking of what I want to attack instead of explaining how I'm going to attack. Like instead of saying, I want to run up and slash this guy, I'll be like, I want to use Cleve on both of these instances. - So you didn't like the little cards? 'Cause they were more too constricting. - I like to be able to tell a story when we're playing role playing games, instead of to tell you exactly what I'm doing. - Okay. - So the story is basically the premises of a game. It's a role playing. - That's true. What was your first game? - Probably, it was D&D, 3.5 edition. - So what was the tree? - What was that? - That was awesome. - I actually split the tree with the power in 4.5 edition. - Yeah. - I know, that's what it was first time. - I was an archiver, I was an elf. - I use this lame action every time I got an attack. I don't know what it's called. I use two arrows, so I shot two arrows every time I attack. So it kind of doubled my damage. - Which was okay, but it got boring after all. - Yeah, it was like spam, spam, spam. - That's why I didn't like Cleve 'cause I didn't do Mario action, pull, pull, pull, pull, pull, pull, pull again, again, again, again, which it does do damage every time. - I like being able to use the ice in my axe and the, there's different things. - So you played D&D, 3rd edition, 3.5, 4, any other games? - We've been playing Dresden and I've sat back and watched you guys play other games. - And you played? - Dresden. - Dresden as well, any other game? - What about? - I know one of you are forgetting. - Zombie. - And? - Savage World. - That makes sense, right? - See, I've watched that, but I never-- - I didn't like that game that much. - No. So, which, let's start with Mark this time, which one was your favorite? What's a favorite gaming system out of anyone you've ever played? - Probably Dresden. There's more storytelling, more than I attacked this guy with this attack and so on. - Dresden isn't too complicated for you? - No, I like the easygoing fudge dice. - Mmhmm. And you? - That's bad. - I really could do better with the dice. I don't like the dice at all for Dresden. Personally, I like the game we're playing right now, but that's because we're playing it right now. And I would have quit if I didn't like it. I'm a quitter. And I'm transitioning. - You should have played gaming not enjoying, so as long as you're not letting everyone down. - Well, Mark took over for me last time I quit, but in Dresden, you have the dice and the use. Always bad. My first way. It has to deal with the dice, so I'd rather get a 20... - But you can respect the dice. - I'd rather get a 20 sided dice, because I just feel like it's more up to chance instead of... - I think it seems negative. What's your favorite gaming system then? - Uh, Dresden, because we're playing it currently. - Mmhmm. What are you like best about Dresden? - Um, social combat, I've got to say, I can socially corrupt someone. I'm like, "Oh, well, I think this is important." And then I can break their minds with my Nikki Hammonix, which is really hardcore. - Yeah, that's true. - I mean, our girls die from social combat. I was like, "And why are you doing that, Mr. Ghost?" He's like, "I just don't know." He just died. He went away. - I didn't even have to hit him. I'm like, "Yeah." And he was like, "Let's hit him with a screwdriver." And I was like, "Oh, wait. Give me a second." - He had a shovel. - And that character was our first game, Candadventure. When you play kids, then you convert that over and play her as an adult in our current adventure, right? - Yeah. - And character. Still very social. - I own a book, sorry. And I help with those. - No, it's called offline books. The game they were playing was called "Nidger Rounds." No, I mean, I own offline books, which is a newsroom around. And it just isn't your favorite because it's the one we're currently playing, but also because it has a lot of social matters. - Come on, tell me. I like that part of it. A lot of times Erin wouldn't be able to do a lot of things when we were playing. Callie, she would be like, "Should be arrows and then the four, do-" - Do you need a four-part one? - Yeah, that one. It got harder. And then she was also a talker. She talked to us for us, but it seemed like she wasn't doing a lot of combat and talking. It was just her telling you what's happening. And this one, I feel like I'm more- - Actually, in Dresden there's mechanics for the social interaction wherein Dean Nia was more, "You were just talking." It's like whoever talked to us would be the talker for the group because they talked to us. There was no built-in mechanic where your character could be good at something that you weren't necessarily good at. - Like a line. Are Johns better at- - The Johns character is Monty. - John, John's Monty and Thomas is Miles. So Monty's really good at logical and things, and I'm really good at rapport, making people feel how I feel. - Your favorite system on all of them? - Probably Justin. But one thing I don't like about it, most of us had individual jobs. See, she was the talker. Thomas was the combatist. So I'm using the water. - Combat expert. - Fighter. Yeah. - John was a scientist. - You were the beef. - Detective. I was the medic. Slash. Attackist. - Yeah, you got my bomb good. - And about friends. - And since Justin's your favorite, what's your favorite part of Justin? - Probably the skills, I like putting together the skills. - So making your character? - No, the aspects, right? The aspects, because it adds stuff to your character. - You said something about aspects? - I said, I like the aspects. I like how you have little things for your character that I can call it a whole bunch. I made it over my head and tapped an aspect. Oh yeah. I enjoy that. - Yeah, it helps to define the characters much more than D&D, I think. I'm going to do it. All right, well, one last question, since a lot of people like to argue that you should teach role-playing games to kids because it's good for them, what do you think, starting with Megan, that you get from role-playing, that is a good thing, that other kids should play because they'll learn it too. Do you have anything, or is it just fun? - I'm a Megan nerd. I think that's fun. I think I enjoyed being a Megan nerd. I was watching an episode of Simpsons for the first time they talked in every reference I understood. So, I thought it was pretty cool because then we were like, "Oh, I roll my plusade dice." And I was like, "Oh, he's going to win." And then my friend's like, "How do you know that?" I'm like, "I'm like D&D." - It's a normal player. So it's just... - Well, it's not something I'd boast about. - Being an incredible playing role-playing game. - It's not something I'd boast about. I'm like, "Oh, well, I've got a plusade sore." And then it's not something to boast about in school, but it's still pretty cool when you can talk to other people about it, and I'd be like, "Well, I didn't understand what you should do here." - Oh, well, you use your fireball and it has a range of aid, and it's just kind of cool to help other people out in that situation, and also to hear when you come back from game night, how things go along, and I actually understand what's going on sometimes. - Sometimes. - It gets another single range thing. - So there's a lot of people in school, though, that know of a robot? - Yeah. - A lot of people that's got a know of computer games, right? - Yes. - Okay. - There's another thing. The range system in D&D, I despise that for whatever reason. - But it's very strict. - Yes. I like designs better than the diagonal hexes. - Right. It's much looser base. You're not measuring with a ruler, I got to be exactly this. It's like, "I'm close enough," because for the story, it's interesting that I'm close enough. - Mm-hmm. - And how about you? Do you tell kids about you being your old player? - Yeah, but they don't even know what I'm talking about, so you have to be what school don't even know what role-playing is, and I'm like... - What if they did? - It's tough to be a geek. - Yes. - What if they knew about role-playing? If they saw a game, or they played a game, what do you think they would feel about? - I think I don't think anyone would like it. - Really? - Yeah. I don't know. The first of people that I hang out with, particularly don't see Michael's all like, "Yeah, I know what role-playing is," and I... - When they say role-playing, what do you think they think of? - They think of... - Computer games? - They think of life. - Life and... - The magic. - The magic game, like, monopoly and stuff like that. - How is Monopoly? - I know. That's what he said. I'm like... - I role-playing Monopoly. - And you went to jail. What do you do? - You stood on the wrong side. - Lloyd O'Rourke. - What if I... - So you don't think any of them would enjoy it? - No. - Is it that... - Most of the people that are hanging out with me. - To sit at the table would be, like, too much for them. They want to bounce off the walls because they're not... - No. - But they're not... See, they never believed me when I say this, but role-playing is really fun. I say to them. And they... - No matter. If they even know... - Well, okay. - What are the days? - Well, you're saying role-playing is really fun. Tell the audience why... Why you don't play fun? - What makes it fun? - What makes it? - It makes it. - A video game. - 'Cause it's also interactions that you're actually playing with people instead of... - Against them and that. - Yeah. Teamwork plays. Even the video games nowadays are like... Even the Mario one that came out on the Wii where you're trying to help each other get the star, you're bouncing off each other's head and you're just basically flipping yourself upside-on. You're just messing everybody up on the game. So there's really no togetherness you can do in a video game unless you're sharing a screen or something. - That's one part. - That's one part of Adresin, I think, that is the biggest advantage is you can help somebody else in the game. - Always, you can always work together as a team. I can't think of a time when I've been a player then there wasn't something I could think of to do. - But... - Sometimes in D&D it's like... - I think we needed to round or play this better, like kind of more from together. - Yeah, honestly... - Honestly, I could go off on my own and have a social combat and that could be fine. But when it comes to like physical combat, I've got to have Mark or Thomas next to me. - One of the components I like about Adresin in particular though is you can go off and do your social thing and at the same time they can do their battle thing and in a normal game like D&D or a traditional game, that would be very... Is social would be over an instant battle would take an hour and a half. Here you guys can do totally different things and it doesn't really ruin the game. There are a couple times when you are off doing your thing at your business and they were off doing their detective work over somewhere else and they can just happen at the same time. It's not as clunky as in some other game systems. - I thought. - See video games, they basically reoccur in stories which would be, there's no explanation at the beginning of the story which there is Adresin but I mean, there's more of a story and I like a story, a good story. - Plus that was bugging you to share with them. - What's that? - This is like when we were playing the Drake's game, the new Drake one, Drake's three. Adresin was like, I don't want to watch a movie, I want to play a game but I really, I like the movie. I like to know what's going on, I like stories to go along with my games, I like it better than shooters because as long as I have the story to go along I'm hitched. But as far as I remember a while back in this conversation, I really can't sit still for a long period of time. I know you noticed but I'll be sitting there and I'm sitting there and it'll also not be on the ground. I'm like, I'm bored, not bored but I would be more, I don't know. - Just, I love paint, sit, like we're doing it in the room, it's really cushy and stuff and you sit down, but then we're sitting and wouldn't see some of our people. - You suggested that in some ways we can sort of play, I'm used to playing at a table because a lot of the games that I started out with, because I'm an old man, had a map, little miniatures and y'all had to gather around the map. Dresin is more of a game and imagination, which like you mentioned earlier Mark, a lot of your friends don't realize that the graphics in your mind are a heck of a lot better than y'all ever seen on the television because you can imagine things that can't possibly be displayed. That may change in the future that it becomes, you know, displays art and imagination, but right now a role-playing game is endlessly malleable. Anything can happen that the GM can think of and that while the players can think of at our last adventure it ended, you know, Mark's character had an aspect that I can never have enough power. You guys killed the storm god of Indian nature and what does he do? Eat the heart. Eat the heart of the god. I don't want to say that. I'm sorry, would you like to hear your say? What'll happen when Mark's character eats the heart of the god? Well, we'll find out. I probably explode. That's better guts all over the ground. It would laugh so hard if it would be like, no, it is a crush. I'd be like, oh, I'm so loud. Right, cool. But can stuff happen like that happen in a video game? No, they have pre-determined things, these are all you can do. And a role-playing thing? There is no, you can do anything you want. See, one of my friends think about role-playing games, I think, computer games and video games. Like Gary's mod at Dark Role-playing is role-playing game, but it's on the computer and personally that's not nearly as entertaining. I like serving. Scare? Yeah. But you can take your own. Scare game is very fun. I mean, it's as open as any of your game. None of my friends know what that is. Well, the Warcraft is also a role, I think. Well, yeah. But it's not. But that's not role-playing. It's not role-playing. But it's saying Skyrim, I thought. No. Not really. It's an MMO, and Skyrim is a... Yeah, the character goes up levels, you know, you add skills, Skyrim does the same thing, so I can see your argument. You have quests that you go on, you complete them, you come back and do the turn in, you give the person the thing they were looking for, Skyrim does the same thing. To me, that's not role-playing. People say that it's a role-playing game, and I guess I can see it a little bit. But true kind of paper role-playing, role-playing game, that's a totally different story. I know. There is no limit to what can happen in the game. I bring up the phrase table-top role-playing, not for my friends even know what that means. That's why I like this kind of role-playing that we do with Thomas and John and Mark and us. Well, here we're actually passing ideas around and talking about what could happen, and we actually have an influence on the game. And instead of, and I can zone out and I can zone back in and I won't die. See, there was this entire period, I didn't even know what happened. I was in the living room, because I mean, the boys were off doing something, we weren't doing anything, so I just walked into the living room, came back when I was done, and I was like, "So, I don't need to know what happened." I hurt my feelings, I cried when he left. Work! So, you all agree that obviously you have to teach more children about role-playing if your friends don't know. You have to start when they're going. Yeah, but my friends are just, they won't go along if you try to teach them something I've tried to, and they get. That's why you had to teach them on their young. We called it an imaginary game, so we didn't call it role-playing, but you could still do whatever you wanted, and you wouldn't have the little character nicks, "Oh, I'm going to kill this guy." You just explained what you did. It was pure on role-playing, you said what you were doing. I have any dice, just you said what you were doing, GM, or the storyteller, told you what happened, and then you went from there. So, I was the olden days role-playing, and then dad incorporated D&D when I got old enough to actually sit still in more than 30 minutes, and so, yeah, you got to teach them how to use their, like, they know how to use their imagination, but you need to, like, build it up. You need to be like, "Oh, what would you do in this situation?" So, a lot of times, when my friends nowadays, I'll be like, "Oh, so what would you do here?" And I'm like, "I don't know, I'm punching." And it's like, "I know, right?" You can't just say. That's what my friends do. It's something like... You can't just say that you're going to punch it. You got to explain what. Like, one Thomas is, "Oh, and this guy jumps all around." I say, "I run around in the rim, and I punch it underneath to get it all the way out of the ground." And then I pinned it down from my partner to come over, and I explained what I'm doing. The other guy would be like, "I hit it," and he's like, "Where do you hit it? How do you hit it? Do you get there? Did you teleport? You need to explain what you're doing. It's role-playing. If you're not explaining what's the point of playing, you're just playing a video game in your mind. Or I just rolled a dice. "Yeah, five. Did I kill it?" That's what I do in social combat sometimes, so I roll a three, did I win? And the GM should. If you tell a good story, and you give all the flavor, the GM should in some way modify the dice roll. They can make it better for you, because you want the mile. Do you want the extra distance? Mark always says. I don't know. I was going to say after that, that interrupting adds flavor, I guess. Any last comments for our listeners on this, the teacher kids to play a week? I just wanted to put my flavor in it. Teacher kids to role play. That's about it. Do it. All right. I just have someone to talk to you about this. Someone knows. Thanks for listening to the Knights of the Night actual play podcast. Visit kotnpodcast.com for more information on this and other adventures, where you will find character stats, photos, storytelling, props, and even a forum for comments and suggestions. Or you could email us directly at feedback@kotnpodcast.com, or contact us via Twitter, or leave a message on Facebook. 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