Let's get this. Oh, fuck. You already started recording. I did. I wish I would have started sooner. So I could get that entire loss conversation, but that's okay. Hello and welcome to the Android police podcast. My name is Daniel Bader once again. I am a lost super fan. Well, you should all be ashamed of yourselves is basically the end of that. This week, landmark antitrust decision came down. We're not lawyers. This is not going to be as good or as interesting a conversation as maybe you'll hear on some other places, but I think the reality is that this is a very big deal. Yeah, the US government sued Google a few years ago. The decision came out this past week. Basically asserting that Google has a monopoly in general search. Google asserts that search is much broader than that. That it includes services like TikTok and Instagram and Reddit. But the reality is that the judge believes that the market alone for search is distinct general search engines is distinct from the sort of bespoke content style search engines. And as a result, the remedies are not known yet. We're not, you know, that part is coming up in September. Google will appeal this will likely go to the Supreme Court decision, maybe handed down in 2026 or beyond. But I think the most interesting thing from this is that Google may have to give up its relationship with companies like Apple, where Google pays over $20 billion a year to be the default search engine on iOS devices. And the judge basically saying you have to stop paying Apple for the privilege of being on iOS as the default or just like cut being the default in every place. Or it could be like Google's too big. Your search business needs to be separated out from your ad business because the two are so intertwined that they reinforce their independent monopolies. On the one hand, this is a massive antitrust decision akin to the US government versus Microsoft in the 90s. On the other hand, when that decision was handed down, everybody expected Microsoft to be broken up. And that wasn't the case. And some of the decisions, they were mediated a little bit, right? And Microsoft is still a massive dominant company. But the US government asserts that many of the things that happened after that trial led to Microsoft standing down in its attempts to be monopolistic around the early parts of the internet, IE was the default browser on Windows 95 and beyond, and how that kind of threat of continued litigation allowed the early sort of dot com boom to flourish and and all that, right? Where the difference primarily as well is that Microsoft made most of its money from licensing Windows, whereas Google is a free product to consumers and it makes its money from advertisers. And most people love Google, whereas in the 90s, most people reluctantly used Windows because they had to. You bring up the Apple deal as much as that has obviously been a boon for both companies, right? Apple makes a ton of money every year off this deal. Google gets a ton of users off this deal, right? Especially in places where the iPhone is dominant like in the US. But I do wonder if that deal is at least a big reason that this decision came down against them. We know that Apple thought about working on its own search engine. It feels like there's probably a good chance that the reason they like never launched one or like never it never got out of internal testing or however far gotten development was because it was easier to just get money from Google to be like, all right, Google's just the default here. And that is a source of removing competition, basically, right? Like, is that not? And then on top of that, because it is the default on such a dominant platform, rivals like Bing or DuckDuckGo or whatever, can't bloom the way they may be otherwise would. I'm not saying they would, but maybe otherwise would. So it is funny that like one of the consequences could be that this deal can no longer be in place between Google and Apple when I do feel like that deal is part of the reason that this decision is there in the first place. Well, it is absolutely. I mean, that was cited many times by the prosecution in this case and why it feels like the tide sort of turned against Google because whether or not Apple would decide, and Apple even admitted in part of its testimony that like it's tried doing search, but there was never any reason for it because the amount of money it would need to spend in the tens of billions of dollars to even build a product and then try to edge its way into the market to compete with Google would be untenable, right? I mean, look at how long it's taken for Google for Apple Maps to even become a viable alternative to Google Maps, right? It took a decade or more. So it just feels impossible. I mean, Apple, Google had a, I'm guaranteed it had a monopoly on search in 2014. If Apple had launched a general search engine in 2014, I do not think it would be more than a few percent market share today, right? Absolutely. Whereas maps, I think, or other services where Google is far less dominant, you can take for granted that even though these are massive platforms with dominant market powers, there are areas in which Google is nowhere near as competitive. Now, I want to read something from the decision because it rounds everything up in a really easy to understand way. The ruling is 286 pages long. I tried reading a bunch of it for the weekend, right? Yeah. No, I'm putting it on my e-reader for the flight on the way to, yeah, California. Exactly. I'm going to be the coolest, the coolest kid on the flight, but I just want to say, I just want to read this section because it sums it up really nicely. After having carefully considered and weighed the witness testimony and evidence, the court reaches the following conclusion, Google is a monopolist and it is acted as one to maintain its monopoly. It is violated section two of the Sherman Act specifically. The court holds that one, there are relevant product markets for general search services and general search text ads. That's the scope of the case, right? General search and general search text, uh, text ads. Two, Google has monopoly power in those markets. Three, Google's distribution agreements are exclusive and have anti-competitive effects and four, Google has not offered valid, pro-competitive justification for those agreements, right? It's not saying the agreements are illegal, but it's that they have not provided a reason why those agreements further competition, which is basically what antitrust is all about. Importantly, the court also finds that Google has exercised its monopoly power by charging super competitive prices for search text ads, which has allowed Google to earn monopoly profits. So not only is it illegally maintaining a monopoly by getting into exclusive agreements with companies like Apple at the expense of smaller competitors, but over time it has ramped up the price of search ads to the point where not only is its market dominance very obvious and impossible to ignore, but the prices of those search text ads have gone up at a rate that's not commensurate to the rest of the market. So, you know, I, I think it's really interesting. Like this is in, in some cases, like in some ways, very straightforward. And on the other hand, like this is kind of incredible because as I said earlier, unlike Microsoft in the 90s, most people love Google. Like Google search is a really good product. And this ruling does not dispute that whatsoever. Like when I use Google search, I'm doing it kind of knowing that there are other options out there, but I'm not thinking about how my experience could be better if I just stopped using the default because I'm a super user. I've tried everything. Sure, I could force myself. I could actively, as many people have actively go to duck, duck, go or even some of the newer AI powered search engines like perplexity. But people doing that, they're not doing it out of like this product. I, I firmly believe this product is better. They're usually doing it out of, I actively don't want to use a Google product. That's usually where that attitude comes from. It's like, I don't like Google because of X. So I'm going to use duck, duck, duck, go. Yes, exactly. I would say that I, and many others, and probably you, I'm frustrated with the current state of search, I guess, of Google search. Like I don't think it's nearly as good as it was five years ago. I find that the decision for Google to just make itself a Reddit search engine is not the solution to the problem that people were having, where they were typing Reddit in after things because I was the only way to get actual answers to questions. Like that doesn't actually solve the problem. Now that's more of a content issue on the web, but it's still like, it's still a thing that Google could work on. And then on top of that, like, pretty much all of their focus on improving searches. Like, how can we make it more AI powered, right? And we've seen that that kind of blew up in their face over this summer. And I don't get a lot of AI overviews, despite the fact that three months ago, that was the hot thing they wanted everyone to talk about. Now, that said, I am not considering switching to a different platform because like for as many complaints as I have about Google search right now, what is the better product that there isn't one? Bing is still not good enough. DuckDuckGo is not good enough and so on, right? Like those the AI search engines, like I don't think are there. There are times where I will use in open AI, like a chat GPT thing or something. But those are very specific moments. Like I have found that it is really good. If I can't think of the word I want to use, I can just drop that sentence in to chat GPT and be like, what is the word I'm looking for here? That means blank and it will give it to me. And that's really helpful and a thing that Google cannot do. But that's a pretty niche use case. It's not me searching for general stuff throughout my day, both at work and after work. So yeah, I don't know. Like I don't know what I would use outside of Google. I would love competition because I think it would make Google search better. But I don't know where that even comes from who is like jonesing to spin up a new search engine in 2024 that isn't like a Silicon Valley funded AI project. OK, so you said a lot of really important things there. And primary thing to acknowledge is that there are good alternatives to Google on the market already, right? There's Bing. Bing is not a bad search engine. It doesn't mean it's better than Google, but it's still a viable alternative. Duck.go excellent search engine, perplexity.ai. Actually a pretty good search engine, search GPT is coming soon. It's going to take, I think, real market share away from Google. But here's what's interesting about this decision. So what they did was they examined habits from the perspective of desktop and mobile users and they asked a behavioral psychologist to give his expert testimony around the idea of habits. So most people when they interact with a browser on their desktop or their mobile device, when they see a blank search bar or a omnibox or whatever it's called, the URL box, you type in a search query, it will send you to a search engine. We have been habitually educated to believe that when you're not typing in a URL, the thing that will happen is that you are going to go to a search engine. It falls back. Most of the time, if you're on Firefox, if you're on Safari or if you're on Chrome, you go to Google. If you're on mobile, you're either on Safari or Chrome, you go to Google. This is the kind of habit that is almost impossible to break because even though you can change your defaults on desktop, most people don't. And then the other part that's really interesting about this is most people don't realize that these agreements that this behavior rather comes from agreements that Google has made. So Google has an agreement with Firefox. It has an agreement with Apple and most people don't know this, but it has an agreement with the Android OEMs. When you think about it, that's obvious because the OEMs have to agree to Google play services and has to agree to preload all these Google services if they want access to all the other benefits of being on Android, right? If they don't want to fork AOSP, we've gone through this many times, but as part of that, not only do you get Chrome pre-installed often as your default browser, not only do you get a search bar on the home screen that goes to Google search, but every other search box, everything that you can interpret as a search box on your phone will end up going through Google in some way. And I think that's really interesting because most people don't think about it as Samsung or Motorola has explicitly entered into an agreement to allow for this behavior to continue. Most people just think you get maps, you get YouTube, you get Chrome, you get all this stuff, but the search engine agreement is part of that. And that's why it makes this monopoly so sticky or this behavior so sticky and why the general search market is considered to be so heavily dominated by Google. It's fascinating to me when you look at the numbers, 50% of all searches on the internet go through a search box that has been mediated in some way by a Google agreement with another company, 50%. If Google has a market share of over 90% of the general search market, that is an enormous number of searches that happen every day because Google explicitly sought out an agreement to ensure that it is the search box that is going to be in front of your face. The scale of this is unbelievable, like just unreal. So every time we see like Microsoft trying to edge its way in by preloading a bunch of apps on a Samsung phone or something, it's like, yes, there's an agreement between Microsoft and Samsung, but that does not supersede the agreement between Microsoft and Google, and it probably never will. And every time we've seen companies try to do that, try to get rid of Google from Android, it ends up backfiring because Google has made it so that people believe Android and Google are inextricably linked. And for all intents and purposes, that is true. Yeah, I mean, I would never. I would never think to complain about Google apps that are pre-installed on my phone, being annoying or whatever, even if it's something I want to uninstall, like if like Google news is on there or something, but every time I set up a new Samsung phone, I'm like, all right, dragging linked in to the uninstall button. Here we go. And it is just funny that everyone up to and including like people like you and I who live in this world daily are like, nope, still annoying. I think about these in different ways, even though it's the same kind of deal. Yeah, it's true. And it's interesting too, because when Chachi P T launched and Bing chat slash co-pilot slash Chachi P T within Bing search launched, this was what two years ago now, two and a half. There was this ground swell of interest again in Bing as a product, because this was pre-barred. This is pre-AI overviews. Microsoft seemed to have the momentum. But clearly, not only did Google not lose market share, but it feels like that was a flash in the pan. And Microsoft has not actually benefited from that at all. No, no. And Google asserts there are alternative search engines, but they're not really competitive, right? When you think of Reddit as a search engine or Amazon as a search engine, which no one does, I hate that argument from them. It's a TikTok that one's even sillier because try finding anything on TikTok. Good luck. Like, I'm not saying you can't search keywords or whatever, but if if you're like, Oh, you know, I saw this video the other day, you would love it. Hold on. Let me find it. And you didn't like it or whatever. Like, good luck. Like you will not find that video, like ridiculous. And, you know, on the Reddit side, like Google, as I already said, has like essentially turned itself into a Reddit search engine and Reddit has helped out by being like its rivals can no longer paying Reddit for that data now, too. Yeah, it's it's it's Oh, God, Daniel. What's the word I'm thinking of? See, now I need chat GPT. You never need chat GPT. I need it right now to think of this word. Uh, uh, what is the word I'm thinking of? Jules, you have to cut this, um, not archive the data. Uh, uh, when you add it to your search engine, Jesus Christ. Uh, index, um, index. Thank you. Dr. Go can no longer index new Reddit links. They're locked to like July, 2024 and earlier. And so I don't know. It's just like very silly to act like there are alternatives that are equal to Google. It's just not true. And I understand that like the company has to try to defend itself on the stand. And they also were dragging their feet through this entire process in a way that like the judge was like, I could probably punish you for this. But I'm not going to, which, you know, well, the judge punished Google by ruling against them. Well, yes, but there wasn't additional punishments for being like, you weren't handing over documents and like there's no paper trail for all this stuff. And very silly, but you know, regardless, like to me, and again, as you said, up top, not a lawyer, this seems like a pretty textbook definition of a company that is running a monopoly. The other thing that's kind of interesting from this that I never really thought of is so I mentioned Amazon Reddit, TikTok, Instagram, right? These are companies or services that Google sites as competitors, increasingly. So to Google search, the court actually classifies them as something else. They call them specialized vertical providers to Google Bing, dot, dot go. These are GSEs. They're generalized search engines. The idea here being you go to a portal of some sort on your phone on desktop, you type something in and it gives you a list of links. There are versions of that. Google's obviously experimented with different forms, AI overviews, et cetera. But in general, what we think of as a generalized search engine is knowable. It's predictable. The way that I think of TikTok, even though I type a search query into a box, the data that it provides me, which it's in the form of video is just not easily indexable in the same way. And I'm not going to indexable in the sense that TikTok is not indexing it the same way. I'm saying my brain is not indexing it the same way. You consume that information in a very different way. And I think as a result, we have to realize that. Again, I don't know the nuances here, but I, I truly believe that when Google asserts that one of its major competitors is TikTok, it's being disingenuous. It's a compelling argument. And I do believe that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are sometimes searching for things on TikTok in lieu of going to a generalized search engine. But I don't actually think that number is as high as Google or any other kind of expert witnesses testing. And I'm saying, I think it's probably complimentary. You go to TikTok, your TikTok is obviously offering like shopping so you can buy things in the app. That's a big part of what's going on at Google, right? There are specific areas of GSEs that overlap with SVPs. But overall, until search GPT or perplexity or any of these other LLM based search engines comes in and actually makes the generalized search experience better. I just don't think it's realistic to compare it to a TikTok or even an Amazon, which obviously you go to Amazon to search for things. But the intent of that is so different. So yeah, I think like overall, this is a very, very interesting ruling. There's a lot of cool data in here that is fairly easy to digest. It goes through like the rise of Chrome to like at some point in 2013, Chrome overtook Microsoft Internet Explorer slash edge as the biggest browser in the world. And it has like not let up at all since then. And it's just, it's really, really interesting to see this, this chart. There's so many other cool snippets in here that I would bring up. But we don't have time. So yeah, I, I, I find this. Reading. It's light. We did exactly. OK, so we'll stop there, but we'd love to hear from you. If you have any takes on this podcast at Android police.com. Let's talk about some other Google things, product announcements. This is a busy week for Google. It's going to be a busy week next week. But lots of cool stuff happening this week on the product side. What we thought we're going to be announced at made by Google next week, we're actually pre-empted this week. There's a new learning nest learning thermostat, fourth gen, two hundred and eighty dollars. It's coming early next month. And then there's a Google TV streamer. Hundred dollars looks basically like a, I don't know, a Roku box, kind of sure. It just looks like a wireless charger. It does, actually, you're right. It looks it looks. Yeah. It shouldn't be a wireless charger. That's it. That's that's true. Yeah, Google hire me hundred dollars. So $50 more than the Chromecast with Google TV, but 22% more powerful according to Google twice the amount of storage, 32 gigs by default. There's four gigs of ram in there. Still got Wi-Fi five, which is weird, but it's also got ethernet built in. This whole thing is kind of weird. I feel like for the markup, and I know the internet got stuck on this because like the verge had like a follow-up interview with the, I think the product manager behind this where they were asked about by only 22% faster. But like this thing is competing with the TV, which is $30 more and it's running on a 15 bionic and like we don't know for sure yet. But like the report this week, that friend of the show, Michelle found is like that it's running on the same or like basically the same media tech processor that was in the fire. Oh, God, I'm going to screw this up now. The fire TV stick for Max. Yes, I reviewed this for Android, please, three years ago. When it came out in 2021, Michelle's reporting near the bottom of it. I know this said something along the lines of like, Oh, well, like reviewers of the 4k Max stick said that it was like performance is pretty good. And I'm here to say I was probably one of those reviewers. I remember that I thought the performance on the thing was like pretty impressive. I thought it was faster than the the Chromecast that I had at that point. Had already had to factory reset once because of performance issues and storage issues. But that said, that device was cheaper than this three years ago. I'm not going to be impressed by the performance as much when you're using that chip three years later on a more expensive device. I'm usually the guy who's like, don't judge an SOC by its cover, right? For sure. There's nothing to say that this is going to perform poorly or worse. No, I'm not here to say the old fire TV, but I am going to say that we've basically been burned by the Chromecast releases for the last decade. And I will not believe that this is worth buying until I've not only been using it for a month, but probably six months because as we've talked about on the show, the Chromecast with Google TV was deceptively performant for the first few weeks of use, and then somehow it bogged down to the point where it basically became unusable. So unless you and all you could also install like four things on it and every two weeks I had to delete a whole bunch of apps from it to be able to install new things. I genuinely believe this is going to be a better product, but for a hundred dollars, it absolutely needs to be. And you're right, the Apple TV is still going to be better value for most people at a hundred and thirty dollars. And it's obviously far more powerful. And it's older. I mean, Apple's the Apple TV 4K is the new one has been out for over a year, I think, or maybe even two. It might be two years. Yeah. So like, I don't know, like, I understand that Google wants you to think of this as an ecosystem play, right? Like it works in tandem with a lot of their smart home stuff. I'm almost just, I'm genuinely kind of surprised that they didn't put the word nest in the name of this, to be honest, with how much it works with that stuff. But I am using an Apple TV as my main streaming box, because I got burned by every other platform doing a thirty to fifty dollar streaming stick and then having performance issues with it. And like as someone who predominantly uses Android, there's not really a downside to using an Apple TV, even if you were not in that ecosystem. The exception would be like, AirPlay versus Cast. But for the most part, I'm not going to like cast something. It's not 2013, I'm not casting Netflix for my phone anymore. The only thing that I would maybe cast sometimes is like YouTube videos and you can pair an Android phone with the YouTube app on Apple TV. So like, when I say that this thing is competing with Apple TV, it's even more so than like other Apple accessories versus Google accessories. Like, sure, the pixel watch is like technically an Apple Watch competitor, but also not really because they exist in different worlds. That's not true for these. An Android user can use an Apple TV and like not really miss out on features. And the fact that this is thirty dollars less, but it's definitely going to be like. Less like like performance will just not be there in the same way that it is on the Apple TV, right? And like, even if it's like fast and speedy out of the box, which I'm not here to dispute, I think it'll work well. The issue will be, I don't know how it will perform in six months, as you say. Like I genuinely do not think anyone should buy this until spring of next year to see how review units are holding up. I think the Apple TV is it's like the low key bargain in the Apple ecosystem. Yeah, because as you said, even if you're not an Apple user, it's got everything. It has all the services. It's got a genuinely great remote. It supports all of the standards and it's got 64 gigs of storage by default. You can spend $20 more and get 128 gigs of storage and Ethernet built into it. Like it is a bargain and I don't know how much people care to save 20, 30 bucks. Generally, I mean, we know that Roku has had a ton of success with it. It's super cheap streaming sticks and boxes, same with Amazon. So clearly, this is a price sensitive category and Google probably had to toe the line there. We also have seen, we should mention on Geekbench, there is a mention of a Google TV streamer pro. So we're not sure exactly what that means, but it has a more powerful chip inside of it. It's possible that down the road, Google could release a pro version of it with a more powerful chip, more RAM, more storage, charge, 140 bucks for it. And there's two tiers and you get the one that's more appropriate for your lifestyle or whatever. I mean, all the more reason not to buy this at launch, to be honest, maybe, maybe. I don't know. Like, I don't want to sound too down on this before it's out because I expect reviews of this to be positive. I expect that this will probably be the shield TV replacement that people have been waiting for, but I'm just a little frustrated that they didn't put more storage into it, put like four gigs of RAM is probably fine. But like, I don't know, they could have like loaded this thing up and made it like a real deal Apple TV competitor. And I don't know if it is. It's kind of in this weird middle ground where I think, and I wrote about this, I think they were right to kill Chromecast. I think the last few generations of Smart TVs have basically caught up in performance to cheap Roku Fire TV Chromecast dongles. I don't mean that as a positive or as like a compliment towards Smart TVs. I more mean that like they're all pretty like low power, but like it's good enough to get the job done. There's no reason to spend $25 on a different streaming stick. If you're TV, if you're new, you know, one or two year old TV has like Roku built into it, it's probably basically the same experience. So I think moving up into like a higher tier of performance is the right move. I think that like anyone who wants to go buy a device today wants something that is better than what comes pre-installed on their TV. The problem is that I don't know if they did enough. Well, the other thing to consider is the thing you just mentioned about how some people want a better experience and the thing that they get from their TV is true. Some people, but when you buy any Samsung or any LG or Visio or even a Roku or Amazon branded fire, like those are good enough experiences. Exactly. For the most part, for most people, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. And I know some people that are like, I'll never use the default experience on my Tizen or my Samsung TV because Tizen is a shit show. Yeah. But if someone says Tizen is a shit show, they are among nerds. That no one knows Tizen. Like it's that's either in that space of I want to buy an expensive box that makes my experience better. Most people say, oh, yeah, the Samsung thing, it's good enough. It's got Netflix and that's the end of the conversation. Like, right. Exactly. You're at the point now where it's above and beyond that base experience. And even then, I think companies like Roku and Amazon have done enough to integrate their base operating system experience into the TVs that they sell that many people will just not see the benefit of spending an extra 50 to $130 on a set-top box unless they really don't like the experience. And a lot of it is like, you get ads now if you're buying a TV from LG or Samsung. But that's going to be true with this device. Like, that's the problem is that like the Google TV home screen is loaded with ads and that's not going to be different here, but they're prettier ads. Yeah. OK, I mean, like, sure, but like they're still ads and anyone who's considering buying a device, a different device than whatever comes pre-installed on their TV because of ads is not going to be someone who's like, well, I'm fine with ads as long as they look good. They're going to be like, I don't want ads, you know, or they're going to be like our fellow editor, Matt, who spends his weekend like wiping his Nvidia shield to like put a custom launcher on it. Um, but yeah, absolutely. I love that. That is like a nice thing about the app. And I'm sorry, I'm sure there's at least one listener who's out there who's like the complimenting Apple again. But like the closest thing Apple TV has to ads on its home screen is if you like flash over the Apple TV plus icon, you'll see banners for whatever exclusives they have. But the second you move off it, those are gone. So it's fine, like for the most part, I'm always just like my Apple TV is usually when I turn it on, just like hovering over whatever the last app I used, you know, peacock usually. And this is almost what I wanted, but it's like, it's like a monkey claw curling. I wanted a little more. It's not quite there. And maybe if they do make a pro version of this, maybe that'll be it. But I think more performance is good. I just don't know how to hold up over time. The ads continue to be a problem. And I think the smart home stuff is cool, but like it does require you to buy fully into the nest ecosystem to use it, which I'm not in currently. But maybe that's a good pivot point to talk about this thermostat. Well, hang on, I just want to mention we forgot to talk about Android TV, right? So this is the Google TV streamer 4K with Google TV, which is a separate thing. It runs on Android TV, right? Android TV is now three things. I wrote this in my editorial this week. Google TV is Google's skin for Android TV. It's an app on Android for renting movies and currently, but soon to not be TV shows. Yes, you can still buy TV shows through there, but they are getting rid of it. And you're going to have to go through YouTube to do that. And it's now hardware. So Google TV has three different meanings. It's basically Google Wallet all over it. More or less. They are this company continues to not be rated branding. Right. I would say Android TV is also a thing that is pre-installed on some TV manufacturers. Televisions, right? Like Sony TV, but I think I think most of them use Google TV as a skit now. OK, so Android TV as a product is no longer a thing. Like more or less. Yeah, it's like most of the current ways that you would interact with Android TV, you're going to get the Google TV skin on top of it. Right. OK, I'm just I just checked Android TV or Sony's latest TVs are all powered by Google TV. So that must have happened in the last year or so. But yeah, either way, you can get the Google TV experience on a TV pre-installed. You don't need to buy the TV streamer. The TV streamer is going to have Android 14, Android TV 14, whereas it doesn't matter, though. Exactly. I looked at the change log. There's literally one thing changed between Android 13 and 14. So incredible. I mean, one major thing, most of them are just like small API improvements. That's it. I mean, I'll buy one. I'll I'll try it. I'll probably end up putting it in a drawer as I have with every other TV box. I was going to say it can go. That's where my Chromecast is. It's in a drawer because I mean, the Chromecast is that you can just store it away. It's so low profile, you just stuff it in a drawer and forget about it for six years. And you're like, I wonder how this works. And then you try it. But we should also say RAP Chromecast, just like that is that line is dead officially. I'll never forget the Chromecast audio, pour one out for the Chromecast audio in particular. I loved the Chromecast audio. It was so good. It's I still have mine. After this week's like shit show with Sonos and them having like a 30 million dollar. I put it in the show notes for you. Don't worry. I just want to say like the Chromecast audio simplified everything. It really did. I have a I have a rant about the Google slash like Nest audio stuff. I want to mention as well later, but let's talk about the Nest thermostat. So this this is interesting, right? This has been a long time coming. It's been almost 10 years since the last Nest learning thermostat update. Obviously, there have been several new versions. The Nest thermostat E in 2017, the Nest thermostat itself in 2020. Now we have the Nest learning thermostat fourth gen. It's got a bigger LCD display. I think it looks beautiful comes with a in three colors. It includes a temperature sensor, which is neat. You can buy an extra one for like 30 bucks. It will try in a whole bunch of new ways to save you money, which is always good. I'm basically buying it because the thing that I've been using, which is a the Nest thermostat from four years ago is good, but is not learning it. I constantly have to set my temperature schedule and everything manually. And I don't want to do that. I miss having a learning thermostat. I also just think for most people, the thermostat is very prominent. It's in the front hall, somewhere very obvious. And I like the Echo Bee products. I like the Honeywell products. I think they look okay, but I've always loved the simplicity of the Nest thermostat line, particularly the Nest learning thermostat third gen. And I don't know. I mean, we've said many critical things about Nest over the years since Google acquired them, but this product is just solid. I have absolutely no doubt that this is going to be a meaningful improvement over every other thermostat that Nest has ever made. And I kind of have a I have something to admit. I actually like the Google Home app now. Google's done a good job making the Google Home app feel more native and more performant compared to the Nest app because I have a bunch of cameras. I've got my, and I talked about this, I think last week or two weeks ago, smoke detector, I have my Nest Yale lock. Those are all still in the Nest app. My cameras are now in the Google Home app. It's annoying, but I'm starting to live with that idea that eventually I'll just be in the Google Home app and it's going to be fine. I have not really used the Home app since the redesign. Mostly out of laziness. We've lived in this house for like over two years now. And I never like really reset up a lot of the stuff from when we moved out of the apartment to like actually just all be in the Home app because I don't know, I just was being lazy. And so like what I would need to do is like go through and like spend probably half an hour just like getting all my stuff in there instead of using dedicated apps, the like five dedicated apps that everything is split between. And I probably should do that because anytime I have interacted with the Home app, I'm like, this is very nice now, but I don't. It's like half of the smart home stuff that's in my house is just not in that platform right now. And I'm too lazy to put it in. I also should mention, right? If you go to the Google store and you compare the Nest learning thermostat fourth gen to the thermostat third gen, there's basically like three things that it does better. It's got a more powerful processor. It's got a much nicer display and it can automatically set energy saving suggestions for you instead of having to do it manually. And it includes matter support. Everything else is basically the same. So you're not really losing out. If you still have a third gen learning thermostat, you're not really missing out on much. And now you can get it for like a hundred dollars. So the upgrade cycle here is so long that I'm sure some people with the older learning thermostat will upgrade, but this is really just an aesthetic upgrade. You know, it's not so much that you're getting a huge amount of new functionality. So either way, right? I think this is still a really nice product and I'm excited about it. I'm excited for you. I, as I wrote and I talked to you about in the pre-show in my current setup at my house is just and the fact that I'm right from home means that like a learning thermostat or really any smart thermostat is like pretty far down the list of stuff I would want to spend money on. And this is almost $300. So it is quite expensive. It is really pretty and it is probably the one I would buy if I bought one, but I'm kicking that can down the road for the moment. So when I bought the Nest thermostat, the one that was released a few years ago, I also got an electrician in to come and add a sea wire because I had a new HVAC installed a few years earlier, but they never threaded the wire through the walls to get me the sea, the extra voltage from the sea wire. So I did that. It was nice. It made the difference, but the guy who installed it was like really angry because the people that had done the wiring had like screwed something up. And he was like, who builds houses like this? And I was like, I don't don't yell at me. Like, I don't know. He's like, you should have test you. You should have had an inspector find this out. I was like, I okay. Thank you. Goodbye. Like it was so upset with the fact that I bought a house with bad wiring. It's like, I appreciate you not burning down my house. So who says Canadians can't be angry? Oh, no, there are many angry electricians in this country. Okay, let's keep going. So RIP Chromecast, hello Google TV streamer. Hello, Nest, learning thermostat fourth gen. We will spend basically all of next week's show talking about the pixels, but there are a couple of things based on the leaks that have come since last week that we should mention. One is we now have leaked US pricing for the pixel models, the pixel pro models. As suspected, they are more expensive than last year's. I think what's interesting here, when you think about the way that last year's phones were priced, it always made the cheaper one look like a bargain, right? The pixel eight was $700, the pixel eight pro was a thousand. If you didn't want the extra camera stuff, you could just go with the pixel eight, you were going to be fine. There weren't a whole lot of things, right? The display wasn't as good, but generally like that $700 price point was really compelling. We still don't know the pixel nine pricing, but the nine pro, the smaller one, looks to be $1000, and the nine pro excel will be $1200 based on these leaks. Now, if that's true, and we still don't have confirmation here, if that's true, the equivalent eight pro to nine pro upgrade would be $200, right? A couple of things, right? So this leak is weird, right? It's coming from like search data from T mobile. From T mobile, and if you look, especially at the Excel listings, it's listed at like $1200, but like for both the 256 and the 512, usually pixels start at 128. So there is that kind of assumption of like, is there a cheaper one? Also, why are those the same price that we've heard that part of the pre-order bonus, even before this, we heard that it would be their Google is planning on doing a Samsung style free storage increase, right? So if you pre-order the 256, you can get the 512 one for the same price or whatever, right? You'll move up a tier. So I do wonder if it's like 1100 for the 128, maybe, and we've seen since this T mobile leak, we've seen another leak come out that has reiterated 1100 for the nine pro. So I'm wondering if that's nine pro. For the Excel. Excuse me. Okay. Jesus. So the branding on this is terrible. That's a different conversation. So, but basically, yeah, like that seems to be, and as you said, like the $200. I mean, that's what we've seen before, right? So like, if you're getting to the point about the Pixel 9, it seems like 800 would be the number, right? I don't know. I agree. So yeah, let's unpack this. I think you're right. Yeah. If you think about the trends of the last year, particularly with the new foldables from Samsung, things are moving up a hundred dollars. I think that's just the standard we're seeing. So it would not be surprising to me to see the nine pro at a thousand and the nine pro excel at 1100. And then the $1,200 number here is what we're seeing for the 512 gigabyte upgrade, right, which we know is going to happen be available. I wouldn't be surprised if the nine is indeed 800, which is a $100 bump over the eight. And then we don't have confirmation about the nine pro fold, but it's likely going to be in the same ballpark as the pixel fold, right? So yeah, we haven't seen a single foldable drop in price since like, you know what I mean? There hasn't been a company that's like, I know our last foldable was 1800, but this one is 1600. Like that hasn't happened. I'd be shocked if especially considering how many upgrades the leaks and Google's own teases have shown year over year that there's no way that thing is starting at less than what the pixel fold started at, which was 1800. Yeah, exactly. So all that being said, these prices seem par for the course, I guess I'm. I just think it's going to be a hard thing for Google to explain away if they have these people who have an eight pro or seven pro who are trying to upgrade to the nine pro. And they're like, wait, there's two sizes. Now the nine pro is smaller. The nine pro, it's just a weird branding problem that they're going to have to try to solve. But Apple did it. They've been doing it for years. It's totally fine. It's possible. And we all know that Google's marketing is always coherent and very, very understandable. So I think this shouldn't be a problem for Google. The other leak this week is on the Pixel Watch 3. The leak stipulates that the SOC inside the watch will be the same as last year, which is the Snapdragon Wear 5100. So some people are upset by this. I don't know. I don't think it's a big deal. I mean, it would have been nice, but I never had any issues. Like the first gen Pixel Watch had a lot of performance issues. It had that old Exonos chip from like 2018. Last year, I don't think anybody really complained about the performance of the Pixel Watch 2. It's more about what are we missing out on by not getting an upgrade this year? Are we losing out on battery improvements, etc? Does Qualcomm even have a successor to this chip? No, I don't think so. Like, that's what's confused me about people being annoyed about this. I'm like, what is Google supposed to move to? Like, there isn't, as far as I'm aware, like the 5100 is still like the latest platform. I don't think Qualcomm has come out with a new chip in like a year or two for wearables. This was announced in 2022. So yeah, I don't think they have a newer one. But so they have a W5+ gen one. Okay. I suppose it's like a slight bump over the original, but other than that, no, I don't think so. Yeah, so I don't know. I don't think this is a thing to get upset about. Again, as you said, performance was not really a problem with the Watch 2 for the most part. And like, the thing I'm most excited for is the larger model anyway. I don't particularly care if it's running on a chip that was, you know, last year's hardware was also using. Again, we have to wait and see. I think hand-ringing over, we just did this about the TV streamer. But hand-ringing about what's happening in an unreleased product is not very productive. But it's like, it is different than the TV streamer because with that, I mean, obviously we don't fully know. We don't have 100% confirmation in the chip. But like, presuming that Michelle's League is correct, that is, in older chip, Google has plenty of options that it could turn to to power the Google TV streamer. It didn't need to go with this like, years old media tech chip versus like, I just don't know where else you turn to if it's not this Qualcomm chip for the Watch. It's like, that makes sense. Hopefully, Qualcomm does a new wearable chip soon. You know, I guess they could build one in-house, but like, I would not expect like, we have not seen Google, you know, the big pivot to TSMC is supposed to come next year. The tensor chips by and large are like, they're not fully rebranded Exynos chips, but that's what they're based on. And I don't know if that's what people wanted in the Pixel Watch to begin with anyway. So I don't know, like, I think this is a totally non-issue. Obviously, we'll have to try it for ourselves. But on its face, like, I don't think there's a reason to be concerned. Also, Apple and Samsung have both put the same chip in multiple years of wearables. And very few people have been concerned or made a big deal about it. Did the Watch 7 have a chip? The Watch 7 has a new one, but the Watch 6. I forget, they've done many, many generations. They've definitely repeated, yes, a hundred ways. Where they reuse the same chip. I mean, we've talked about this many times on the show. So I do think the last couple generations of Galaxy watches had new chips in them, but only because Samsung kept the same older processor in for like four generations or something. So yeah, I don't know. It's not a huge deal. Okay, that's Pixel. We'll have a lot more to say about it next week. Really? What's going on next week? Well, I don't know. I mean, we'll see. All right, cool. Yeah, no, I'm excited for next week. I think this is going to be such a big launch. I'm excited to cover it with you. But yeah, a lot of this might be the biggest launch I've covered at AP. So who knows? And that's saying something because you were around when Red announced the Hydrogen 1. So I was not here when Red announced the Hydrogen 1. I wish I had been. What a phone. Oh, you weren't here. They should do a Hydrogen 2. No, it was not. That was like 2019. Right. I thought it was later than that. No, because it's in Fast 9, which they shot for the pandemic. It's 2018. I completely blanked on when this thing came out. Anyway, is it bad that that is genuinely how I remembered roughly when it was like, I'm like, I know it's got to be pre-COVID because it's in Fast 9, which they shot before COVID. Okay. Yeah, no, I think reference to a Fast movie in relation to when things were announced is absolutely a valid way of going about your life. I'm going to assume this is not sarcasm and you're just a big fast and furious man. I love loss too. Okay. All right. So let's talk about the OnePlus Open Apex edition. Can I tell you, when I got the press release about this phone last week, when they first teased that it was coming, I read that subject and I was like, oh, an Apex Legends partnership, that makes sense. And genuinely it took like-- Yes, me too. It took like 20-- I downloaded a photo of it and I still was like, I don't know what this red color has to do with Apex Legends, but sure. And then like, I had to like reread the email like two more times to be like, oh, this has nothing to do with Apex Legends. I don't know why, like just something about it. I think it's because OnePlus has done gaming partnerships before, including this year that I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. They just teamed up with Apex. I get it. No, nothing to do with Apex Legends. It's just like a deep red phone that is supposed to like, call back to some hassle-blad camera that I'm not familiar with, but have Google search to find images of. But it's also like, Apex edition is also not the color. Like, I thought it was that the Apex was like the color, the red color, but no, it's called Crimson Shadow. Yeah, which is actually not a-- It's all very confusing. It's a good computer. A script or for this color though, because like the earliest render we got of it was like, cherry red almost. And it is more of a maroon. Like, it is a darker, it's like a burgundy. It's a darker color. It looks really nice. I have it next to me currently. It's been my daily driver since it showed up a few days ago. And I still love this foldable, like almost a year later. It's really good. I wrote about how much I liked it. There are not a ton of changes. This does feel a little bit like the OnePlus Open 2 is not ready. And so they are trying to compete with Samsung and Google, who both have new hardware this summer by putting out this edition, which is totally fair. They packed it with a-- it's kind of terabyte of storage. I don't remember the last time I had a phone with a terabyte of storage. Maybe never, to be honest, certainly not like on board. Obviously, SD cards are a different thing. I just started downloading every Spotify playlist to this, because I could. I was like, I don't have to think about it. I can just-- I should put like 4K Blu-ray rips on here. Who cares? You should. You should actually watch all of your movies on this thing from now on. In like 50 megas of 4K. I'm going to watch on this screen. I'm going to watch a 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray rip of Madam Web on the way to Mountain View on this thing. Beautiful. I love it. The one downside, I would say, is that they put this VIP mode on it. It's part of the alert slider. So if you slide the alert slider all the way up instead of going to silent mode, which is I believe what the all the way up position usually is, it goes to VIP mode, which like turns off the camera and the microphone. And it's got this like EAL5+ certification. And it's supposed to like help protect your privacy. It's supposed to like reduce ad trackers as well. I don't know why this is here, to be honest. I certainly don't know why it's tied to a hardware button, because I have accidentally turned this on like three or four times already. And yeah, I don't know. It's kind of weird if like Kamala Harris wants to buy a one plus open. This would come, sorry, Kamala would be. Don't do it. Don't do what everyone says it differently. Nope. There's one on the right way to say it. All right. I'm American, I should know. Are you American Daniel? Is this true? Are you voting? No. Are you voting? I'm not voting. I'm voting for you. I'll give you one of my four ballots. God. We're saying this live on the air, folks. Committing voter fraud part of our patriotic right are me. It's not my patriotic right to commit voter fraud. It's yours. Anyway, let's get back to the smartphone. Yeah, I don't know. It's just a silly thing, but I don't think needs to be here. But it's not like I would say don't buy this if you're interested in it, because of it or whatever. It's just an on touch. It makes me excited for both the Pixel 9 Profold, which looks a lot like the open and its design from every leak and Google approved render we've seen. It looks very similar. And for the eventual open too, I really like this. This is going to be the most cursed thing I've ever said on the show. I really like Oxygen OS on the one plus open. Ooh, it's pretty good. It is good. I mean, that's not that controversial, I think. No, I know. But it's like, you know, Oxygen OS has its. All right, let me say something even stranger, I guess. I enjoy using current Oxygen OS on the open more than I do current one UI on the phone set. Yeah, I don't think that's controversial at all. Damn it. All right. Well, you know, yeah, I don't know. Like, I feel like strangely Oxygen OS has the right amount of like pro stuff I'll never use and multitasking abilities that I will use versus like one UI where I feel like I'm constantly spending time in settings being like, I don't want the setting on or where is this setting. I do want it on Samsung needs to clean up their software again. Like they do every five years where they have packed it with too much stuff and it feels bloated. And strangely, I don't feel that way about Oxygen OS at the moment. But very excited for whatever this company does next for foldables. But I do think that they need to come out and wow people because yeah, the Pixel 9 profile is looking pretty good from all the leaks we've seen. I am excited to get my hands on one, maybe in a demo area next week, fingers crossed. Maybe, maybe we'll talk about it. We know it's going to be there is all I'm saying. Like, I don't know if there'll be a demo area, but we know they're going to show it on stage. And that that is enough to make me excited. Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. Last but not least, we'll talk about Sonos a little bit. So I've got a couple of things. One is Sonos released an apology note from CEO Patrick Spence. We talked about this. It was late July. Now the company is saying that it is modifying its guidance for Q3 to account for the fact that it's not launching any new products for the rest of the calendar year. It had two products in the works. We know one was a very expensive successor to the Arc sound bar. So the Verge reported last month that it would be like a $1,200 replacement for the Arc, which is already like pretty expensive. I think it's 700-800 bucks. The other product is, I don't know what it is. It's probably a new speaker, but basically the company has said that everything is on hold until the app is fixed. Everybody at the company is working on improving the app experience. So the stock is in free fall. People are calling for Patrick Spence to be fired. It's not a good time for Sonos, which is just remarkable given the fact that in May, it launched what is by far the most important product in a decade, right? Like more so than its sound bars, more so than any of its new spatial audio optimized speakers. They launched a new category, the headphones good. It's a good product. Last week, there was an update that allowed you to use the TV swap feature with your cheaper sound bars, like the Beam, Beam 2nd Gen and the Ray, as well as it now supports Android. So all of these things, the app is getting better, etc, etc. But my goodness, the stock is down nearly 30% year to date. I was going to say, if you do past six months on Google, it says almost 35%, which is rough. Yeah, I mean, it has not been a good few months for Sonos. Twelve dollars right now, though, if you want to buy the dip. I don't know if this is a good time to buy the dip. I'll be honest. I think this has got a lot longer to go. It's like buying the dip at a Blackberry in like 20, 11, it feels like. It's like, not a, I don't think that's going to recover, folks. I'm sorry to Sonos fans out there. It does not sound like your favorite company is on a success of Daniel Bader's out here being like, I use my Sonos Blackberry in every day. But I think, okay, so here's the struggle that I've had as a parent. So we have a Google Home Max in the corner of our living room. I've talked about this before. 2017 speaker, it's massive. It sounds good. It supports very, very slowly because it gets lower every year, Google Assistant. But it was working great. And then my son learned how to talk and all hell broke loose because he yells, "Hey, G, hey, G, hey, G, play the wiggles, hey, G, play whatever over and over and over again to the point where I had to disconnect it because do you know that you cannot disable voice reception on this thing at all? There's no physical toggle on really? I did not know that. You cannot do it. It just, it's built to support voice. Unless somebody has figured this out, please tell me, but I've looked it up online. There's no way that I can see to disable it. So I had to unplug it, which has been a nightmare for our dinner times because all he does is like look in the corner of the room, just distraught. You killed this favorite toy. I killed, but I also was, it was killing my soul. Like he was activating this thing. He would interrupt his own song to start playing the same song over and over again. The only benefit that I can think of is like filming it and uploading it to our kids are fucking stupid because like, I just enjoy that Reddit, that subreddit, but other than that, like he's streaming the new, the new Jack White album. He's not. Is that what he's doing? He's still celebrating brat summer. He's not. He's in his Taylor Swift era right now with my daughter who's become like, guess she goes to summer camp and all of her camp counselors are like 17 years old. So all they do is just listen to Taylor Swift, which is meant that my six-year-old is now a Swiftie. So. It was going to happen eventually anyway. It was going to happen. I don't hate it because it's a lot more tolerable than listening to Peppa Pig music or Gabby's dollhouse music, which is what we used to listen to all the time in the car. And now because Taylor Swift is okay, I've like introduced her to Carly Rae Jepsen, and Lorde, and Charlie XCX, and Dua Lipa, and all these other pop artists that are really good, not to say Taylor Swift does not, please don't come at me. I was going to say, you were coming up to a line that you do not want to cross. I do not at all. I actually enjoy most of her music, but what's funny is my daughter is very, very effusive about listening to the Taylor's version. I don't know who explained the difference to her. Somebody at Summer Camp was like, she cannot listen to the whole version. Let me sit you down and talk to you by the guy named Scooter Braun. I don't know how that happened, but she's like, we have to listen to Red Taylor's version. I'm like, okay, okay. That's really funny. I'm going to argue with you. And then she's explaining the differences in some of her favorite songs between the originals and the new ones and how the Taylor version versions were like slightly updated and her voice sounds better. And I'm like, okay, I'm not going to argue with you. These sound exactly the same to me, but who am I to say? So anyway, I'm now streaming everything to a Sonos speaker, because those are the only other speakers in my living room. And suffice it to say, it's not going great. Yeah. As problematic as the voice recognition was on the Google Home Max, it is nothing compared to how unreliable the Sonos speakers have become in my house. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm just, I don't have a solution because anything that's voice assistant powered is just going to be an issue. Maybe I'll put something else in there so that I can physically disable it, but also just cast it. I have a Nest Audio. That has a mute switch, doesn't it? I actually sent you a link that should solve your problem. Uh oh, eBay. What's this? Oh my god, you're right. The Google Chromecast Audio. Thank you. Do you know, he just sent me a link to a Chromecast Audio that goes for $119.99 on eBay. My god, people. Well, it's unopened. You want it. You want that audio crisp to collector's item. That's right. Listen, 15 people have viewed this in the last 24 hours. There is demand. There is absolutely demand for Chromecast Audio replacement. You're right. This thing just worked so well. It worked so reliably. It was great. I should find mine. It's somewhere. You could make $1,000 from this, if you really missed it. Probably. The only Chromecast Audio left in the world. Okay, that's it for this week. We will be live next week with you for made by Google in California. And I'm really excited about that. Will, are you going to bring a microphone? Or should I bring a microphone? Or should we just use a pixel because we know that the sound quality is so good? I will have two microphones with me. You'll have to hold it. But we'll have it. So I have a Zoom H4 that I bought years and years ago. But you know how all of those older products have that rubbery texture on it? Yes, because the recorder that the super quarter I'm going to bring next week that I got from the producer of this show, Jules, has that exact problem. Touching it is disgusting. Rubber Reversion is a thing. I covered that with cellophane to try to like make it easier to hold. And it's melting inside the cellophane. Oh my god. It is disgusting. I knew you had wrapped it. I did not, this is an update. I think when you told me about this, you were like, yeah, it's so much better now that I wrapped it. This is news to me that it is back. It is melting inside of the cellophane. And I don't know what to do about it. I just have to write it off. I have to buy a new one because I think so. Anyway, that's it. Okay. Let us know what you think about everything we talked about today. Spanned a lot of ground. Podcastandropolice.com. I also just want to shout out James Peckham for being a better me than I was. And typically am. I also just want to like explain like why is the editor in chief of Andro police, not the host of this show. And it's me, some random guy who is not technically associated with Andro police anymore. It's because I'm a selfish asshole. And that's based on all of this. I hold on to power with a tight grip, like Moa Deeb from Dune. So basically, I will never let it go. I actually walk into the desert. So that is just the way. I have sneak games into this record last week. You were so, I was like, Daniel, you're not even going to be on, like you're going to be on vacation. And you were like, no, like it's got to, it's got to just be you. Or like the AI version of me. What I wanted exactly was to create an AI version of myself. Right. That you could then like talk to. But we're not quite there yet. So eventually I will prevent you from having any other guests by forcing you to use the AI version of myself. Until then though, I suppose we can have James and others back on the show. Yeah, I would expect to see James see. It's not a video show. I would expect to hear James on the pod more often. We will actually have video soon. I am committing to this. Talking about it for a year. No, no, we're doing it. I'm actually, I'm going to make it happen. It's not me, it's you. You're the one who keeps saying you don't want to be filmed. I think I said six months ago that I'm fine with it. I just need to clean my office so that people don't know how I live. Yeah, but have you cleaned your office yet? I did like two or three months ago and then we've had like six phone launches since then. So it is a, and I've been traveling every other week. So it's a disaster. I have not even unpacked from the thing I was traveling for this week because I have to pack in two days for the next trip. Precisely, it's your fault. So we're just going to, we're just going to leave it there. But we will do video soon. I look forward to it. And James will be on the show. That's what I was going to say. The issue is actually just the time, the problem with time zones and everything. But yeah, James, James lives in the backwater nation known as the United Kingdom. So until that changes. Yeah, I am. Actually, we're independent now. I don't know if you heard. I didn't. I don't keep up with Canadian names. You guys are real. Yeah, long live the king. All right. That's our show. Thanks so much. We'll talk to you soon. Bye bye. (Music) The fact that you could have a coherent conversation with James about lost for 10 full minutes is you should be ashamed of yourself. I don't even have anything else to say about it. Like the fact that you agree on so much of it too is what makes me so sad. It's like there are other people out there like you, which I just hope there wasn't. I hoped you were this island that kind of like in lost. That moves around through space and time. Lost are the friends we made along the way. Lost is the okay, but genuinely I kind of think that's the message of the show. Yeah. No, I think when I don't ever rewatch it, I'm going to have my mind. You should rewatch Daniel. You have so much time. You might as well use some of it to rewatch. I've watched all of the shows from 2020 and beyond everything that's been released. They're not making good TV anymore. Every show was eight episodes long per season and it takes two and a half years to make a new season. Just go rewatch Lost. What else are you going to do? Yeah, that's definitely worth it.
