[Music] Hey guys, welcome to the three hundredth episode of Church and Other Drugs, three zero zero, 100 more than 200, 200 more than 100. That's probably the extent of the math that I can do, but holy crap, 300 episodes. I would like to thank all the little people that got me here and the congregation, most especially. So today I got our illustrious original co-host co-founder, used to go by Jay John on the show. We talk about some of our favorite guests, some where are they now segments, why he stopped doing the show. And I think children talk about kids and God, and then I bring on Dave from Dopey, and we also, I think I talk about Comanches for some reason, because I'm currently reading Empire of the Summer Moon, which is a history of Quanna and the Comanches. It is the craziest thing I've ever heard, and there I go again, distracting from the 300th episode, but we get to 300 episodes, we talk about it. And here is to 300 more, sorry, this month is late, but me and Josh are scheduled Thursday for the Emojellicles episode three. If you want to hear that, patreon.com/churchandotherdrugs, and send me an email, churchandotherdrugs@gmail.com, and enjoy the 300th episode. [Music] You always talk too much, too little too late, too much, too little too late, for me to dig around. You always talk too much, too little too late, too much, too little too late, for me. Classic, this is vintage John, even for recording in progress. Even for the 300th episode, you're like, "Ah, I forgot, and I don't really have time, but I'll just come crazy." Yeah, I got an important shit to do, man. That's what I wanted to ask. You don't have to talk about, listen, I can't just sit around talking about dick jokes in Nephilim. What do you have to do? I have to fix a camper. We're going to Cumberland Gap tomorrow. Oh, never mind. You can Cumberland this gap? Yeah, thank you. So, this is the funny thing. If I would have gone full tilt -- so I was headed -- this is Jed Payne, the tastemaker. I was way ahead of the curve on the Nephilim thing, and if I would have gone full tilt, I'd be a wealthy man right now. Is that, like, super popular now? Dude, so Nate Henry from Blurry Creatures, they just released their first book. They did a commentary on the book of Enoch. It is, as of today, number 30 on Amazon. Like, as for all books? Total for all books. Oh, shit. Good for them. I know, dude. I know. I'm very stoked, but yeah, they are. But you can't -- it became a huge thing. But the problem with that, dude, is, like, you can't read or write. So, how are you supposed to like -- Dude, I can dictate. Dude, we watched -- tell me you love me last night. Have you heard of that? Uh-uh. It's a doc -- oh, dude. It's one of those -- it was the first documentary in a long time where I ended, and I was like, "I don't know who was right." They don't really -- they kind of leave it up to you. But the story is about -- so there was something called FC, Facilitated Communication, where these facilitators would help nonverbal, disabled people speak by -- so, like, the idea was that they can't control their physical movements. So, you just need someone to hold their elbow in place, and then they'll type. Okay. The problem was this psychiatrist did, like, a double-blind study and basically kind of figured out that more often than not, the facilitator was typing their own words. Sometimes, even subconsciously. Interesting. Like a weed board. Exactly. But so, this one FC lady ended up sleeping with one of her incredibly disabled clients, and then the family was like, "Uh, we are pressing rape charges because you did not consent." But she's like, "He said he loved me," and he asked for it, and they're like, "What?" It's crazy. I don't even -- yeah, I don't know what to say about that. Me neither. It was a very interesting documentary. It's just like an hour and a half or something. It's wild. Yeah. I don't know. I feel skizy already, just hearing about it. Yeah, it was -- I mean, it was interesting. Can we talk about how you ruined the House of Dragons? Well, okay, dude. They be you for me? You are the one that told me you're like, "Hey, House of Dragons tonight. I've totally forgot." So, I assumed that you would watch it. Well. Did you watch it? No, I still haven't watched it yet. So, how do you know I ruined it for you? Because I know that there's assassins now. Oh, now you ruined it for more people. Well, I mean, that's still to me. That's like saying there's sword fights in Game of Thrones. You know what I mean? True, true, true, true. True. Now, I'm rewatching with my wife the first season. And rightfully so, it's been two years. I don't remember all of the specifics. So... It's only what? Like eight episodes, though, or something? Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty short. It's pretty short. It is. I do remember. This is how crazy ever since the pandemic, how time works. Like, it seems like the last thing I remember was, "Oh, my God. We have to wait two years for a new season." Oh, yeah. And here we are. Here we are. It's crazy. It'll be like that when Stranger Things final season finally dropped. That feels like forever ago that that last one. It was. And they're going to be old. I mean, they are old. Like, they're all grown up now. Yeah, flirting with Drake and shit. Oh, she's married, dude. Is she really? And she married somebody. I can't remember. I have to look it up. Somebody famous. Yeah, dude. What do you think about the Drizzy Kendrick? Bro, did you see what happened on Wednesday? Remind me. Something about a concert? Yeah, Kendrick played the best track from that record six times in a row. The best diss track, you mean? The best diss track from that. Not the record from that, like, back and forth. Six times in a row on stage and brought up, like, LA's biggest hip-hop stars on stage. And we're just vibing. Six times in a row? Yeah. Well, you know, Drake is, like, six God. Like, that's his thing. Oh, my God. That's so meta, dude. So, he, that was a nail in the coffin, dog. Man told him then. Bro, it's going to take time. Like, Drake, oh, it's fine. But it's like, Drake better not drop a record right now because I don't know that anybody's going to listen to it. Do you think, like, he's actually a creeper? A child creeper? I think he does creepy shit. And, like, rides the line of acceptability. I don't know that he's, like, ever actually slept with an underage kid or underage girl, but he's skeezy. He is skeezy. You know? That whole absolute power, absolute wealth seems to foster skeezy things, eventually. Oh, for sure. Like a ditty. Dude. Where are you going to see? Wild shit. I don't know. I kind of, like, lost touch with what was on there. And then I tried to look that up and I was like, where is he? I don't know. Is there, like, a warrant out for him? Or is it just? I don't think so. I don't think so either. I think that they're, like, putting together a case. Yeah. And then he'll be in jail for a long time. Dude. I mean, like, everybody's snitching on him. All everybody. Good. Everybody thinks JZ's going to go down as part of that too. Who? Really? Who's everybody? I'm on the Black Twitter subreddit. What the fuck? What? That's a good subreddit. Everybody. They made a documentary about it on Hulu, which is funny. That's so funny. Yeah. It's a, I mean, that billionaire shit's on, like, that's a whole different. Dude, you know, it's on some, like, Jeffrey Epstein shit. Yeah. It's, it's too much. It's too, and I, I always try to illustrate 'cause all, my soapbox, when I do groups sometimes, I'll go into, like, nobody should be a billionaire. And everyone's like, you can earn it. Well, I'm gonna be a billionaire. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, check it out, dude. You're not. A million seconds is 11 minutes. And a billion seconds is 33 years. Yeah. Like, that is on, we can't even. It's unfathomable. It's unfathomable. The brains cannot, I was actually just, I think it was on NPR, but I was, like, watching and listening to, like, a report on our brains cannot wrap our minds around numbers that large. Yeah. We can, we weren't, we weren't evolved to do that. Much less have it, you know? That's unlimited. Yeah. It's unlimited. It's unlimited. Yeah. I can't remember who. Maybe it's, um, Bezos' ex-wife, but she's giving away unreal money, and she cannot give it all away because somehow with the interest, it's immediately made back or something crazy. And it's just like, yeah. Yeah. And then we still have people starving to death. How does that work? And somebody was like, "Hey, yo, Elon, you can solve world hunger, or you can solve hunger in the United States." And he was like, "Prove it." That's what he said. Okay. Prove it. What? Lookin' big, dude. I hate him. I'm glad the public opinion is turned on him. Yeah. I don't know. He's only like tech bros and tech and crypto bros that like him, and not that he's like that into crypto. It's just like that's the... Well, it seems like the Tate bros are the only people that like him now. Eww. Yeah. I know. It's like young people that don't know any better. Scared for the future. Scared for the future. Right. Right. Speaking of future, so 2016, 20, well, we got at least touch on this for a second. Yeah. 2016, dude, we started this podcast. That's crazy. I still get emails every now and then about like asking for both of us, or like where's not that I'm like, he died actually. Yeah. Yeah. That's why all the people still ask for me. I mean, I know it's always a favorite, but... Okay. It's been a long time. I told the... I got Dave from Adobe also for the 300. Oh, good. And I told him the story of basically like how we broke up, and it was that one time where we like straight up got into, you're like, just fucking do it then when like, I can't remember what it was. Do you remember that? When we broke up the podcast? Well, so it was before we officially broke up, but it was our first like fight about it because I was trying to get you to join an interview and you were just like, I don't have time, and then you agreed to a time, and then you're like, dude, I can't do it. And I was like, well, something, something, and you were like, just fucking do it without me then. There was something very stern. And it was like, okay. And it was... I don't remember that at all. I probably... It was angry, John. Let me say, there have been decades of friendship where I can be a total dickhole and say real stern things like that, like just do it without me. But I bet, because I don't remember it, I probably was like, you should probably just do it without me, like I probably wasn't any attitude in there at all. Oh, no, no, no, no. Because it was fucking... It was... There was attitude. There was attitude. But, yes, it was shortly after that, and it was like, yeah, you just go ahead. It's okay. It was like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, seven years later, lots of life changes. That's the crazy that you're still rocking, dude, just long, and people love it, I guess. Yeah, or they're just watching the train wreck. It's fun. That is my life. Yeah. I do have... I have a... My friend Katie, shout out. She started listening from the beginning, and she's been texting me with quotes every time I say that, like, I'm never having kids, or I'm scared to have kids. That's so funny. I know. It's very funny. Yeah. Have you ever said that you weren't having kids? That's crazy. Well, maybe not that I was, but that I was terrified to. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That I wasn't ready. Yeah. That is very true. Right. Yeah. Do you remember I played not too long ago that our friend sent us the jingle for things I heard in drug school? Oh. Do you remember that bit? Oh, I remember the bit. I don't remember the jingle, though. Who made it? Let me see if I can find it. Yeah. See if you can find it. So, if you don't remember what that was, that was when I was in counselor school, and there were so many idiots in there, and I would just write down every time I heard the dumbest thing in the world, bro, and it was quite a lot. I could do that again with just regular school, but nobody... Yeah. So, drug school was so much better because it was like, it was people that had never done drugs. Right. And trying to... Saying wild shit. Yeah. Trying to speak with like absolute authority. Yeah. That's so funny. The one dude that was on methadone that everybody just pounced on him so hard. Yeah. He got ran out. Was that the kid? Was that the like teacher's petty? Dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um. Was it... I found it somehow, and now I can't find it anywhere. Oh, it's... If you have... But it was like, "Jugs are cool, and drugs are great." Did you... Did you... Did you... Did you... Did you... Did you... Did you... Did you... Did you... Did you... Something like that. Did you... Did you... Did you... Did you... - I'm a professional actor and like TikTok famous. - Oh, oh yeah, Aaron. - Yeah. - Yeah, I've had him back on since he was a TikTok star. - Okay, cool, yeah. - So, in that so, oh yes, once again, talking about how I'm always success adjacent. Yeah, Aaron, Aaron is now, I saw him on righteous gemstones, dude. - Yeah. - That's so awesome. - Yeah, he's a working actor. - Yeah, bro, yeah, and when he was on, he was a much different person. I'd like to say that it's because of us, that he's famous. - I think so. I mean, where else did he get his start? - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah. - We, I only know of one guest that died since we've had him on. - Okay. - And I think it was Aaron who hooked me up. It was the former, or current porn star that was on steroids. Do you remember that? - Oh, geez. - Yeah, vaguely. - Yeah. - He died. - Yeah, he had a, I think it was an overdose. What about, what about your Israel friend? He was also an early, early. - Oh, yeah. No, he was cool. - Oh. - Yeah, wily. He is not living in Tel Aviv anymore. I think he's in the, last I heard he was in the Philippines. And was like, shacked up with some Filipino woman. - What? Oh, that's, that's the dream, bro. - Thanks. - That's dope, dude. He's English. - What about your old sponsor? John? - John? - Yeah. - Yeah. - The exact same. - The exact same. - I think those old timers never change. You know what I'm saying? He's doing incredibly well. I still talk to him all the time. - What about the LSD pastor? That was your friend too, right? The guy that like, was perpetually tripping for two years? - No, I don't remember where we found him. - I swear it was someone from you. Maybe not. - I remember that. I do remember that. And he like, validated all of the urban legends that we've ever heard that you can permit trip. - That, it was, yeah. That was the first actual person I've met. - It sounded very scary, dude. - What about your homie that, I don't know if it was DMT or ayahuasca, but he did it in sobriety to find God. How's he doing? - Oh, which one was that? - He was in Lafayette. And he was like micro dosing, and maybe macro dosing from time to time. - The? - Like he couldn't find God. - The veteran? - He was a cook too. He also did like cooking and catering stuff. I don't remember his name. - Yeah, yup, yup, yup. Not doing the best. - Okay. - He's, I talked to him a lot though, but he, yeah. He's working on it. He's okay, you know. - Okay, good. - He can be better. - Gotcha. - Scott Countryman, shout out. I still. - What? - Yeah, man. He's still rocking and rolling. I talked to him. - He'll always, he's the best because, so he's a chef still, and he works with all these young kids, and he'll always text me like, "Hey, have you ever heard of three MMC?" Like, he'll text me these random drugs. It'll be, yeah, 'cause he's like, "Yeah, one of my cooks is on it right now," or something, or like, "One of my." - Yeah. - Man, he's, yeah, he's one of those, like, have to keep Narcan around. Like the young chef game is still wild, bro. - Oh, I'm sure always, I'm sure. - Yeah, it's so crazy. - Andrew Pike, who was, like, guest number one, right? - Yeah, I ran into him not too long ago. At the bar he was working at, I was at, like, a work thing, and he was working, and then Danny ran into him, too, at the same bar, not long ago. - Oh, yeah, give a update on your brother. Yeah, he's killing it. - He's loving life, his soulmate, his words, and is, has been tattooing full-time for almost two years, maybe, more than a year. - He went from not great to incredible very quickly. - I was an artist. - As a tattoo artist, yeah. - Fun real, dude. - Yeah. - I was, I had a, I have a professional colleague that hit me, like, last week, and I was like, "Yo, I just got tattooed by your brother. "Like, I love his art, yada, yada, yada, yada." And I was like, "That's insane to me." - I know, I told him I'm saving a spot for him. - Oh, my dude? - Yeah, we gotta get buddy-tats, dude. Gotta think of something. Yeah. Get seein' an idea. - Oh, bro, look what I found the other day. Hold on, hold on. - It better be good, better be good. - These are from 2016. - Are they drawings? - Oh, it's blurred out. - Oh, the stickers, dude. - Original stickers. - Oh, how many do you have? - Hold on, let me unblear myself. - Yeah, so, man, this, it was, running a podcast is hard, y'all. And if it's like anything else these days, you have to, like, make a push and then you can't stop. And so, there was, like, a second where printed a bunch of T-shirts, made a bunch of stickers and, like- - My favorite ones, dude. - That is a great one, the three pills. Oh, you should, yeah, take good pictures of those. Maybe I'll do a reprint. I do need to make stickers again, for sure. Oh, you've got the whole pack, dude. - Bro, there's so many. Like, there's a ton of these ones. - Oh, you gotta send me some. - Yeah, I will. - I meant to give them to you, I had 'em when you were up here and I didn't, and I totally forgot. And then the OG, like, that'd be it. - Yeah, that's my favorite. I still love the dare shirts I made a long time ago. I needed to do a reprint of those. But now, it's funny. Dopey and blurry creatures has done the same thing. But I guess 1,000 people have done the same thing too with that. - Yeah, for sure. - Fo sho. - Who else was, like, memorable guess? Oh, you know what's funny? - Yeah, he cuts. - You remember Preston Sprinkle? - He's really familiar. - Yeah, he, you were on that interview. He wrote the book People to be Loved. He lived in, like, Idaho. We talked to him at a coffee shop. Anyway, he's like a very famous theology in the raw. It's his pocket. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do remember him. - So, Miss Miriam, my mom, like a month or two ago, Preston was speaking at a church in Columbia and she was like, "Should I go?" And I was like, "Hell yeah." And she talked to him afterwards and, like, he remembered me in the show. So that's pretty cool. - Oh, very cool. - Yeah. - Let's do it. - Yeah, the friends, I mean, that's how I've met, you know, Brant Cannon, Andrew, who have been, really, I guess, Joey and all of them. I mean, that's how I got-- - I should have. He was over for dinner two nights ago. - Really? What's he doing in the ash? - He was just camping with the bull with his boys. - Nice. - Joe Spencer. - I should have got a picture or something. Yeah. - He's doing well. - He is. I finally talked to his brother. I always wanted to meet him and talk to him. He, I guess, actually was ahead of the curve with the Nephilim stuff. - Mm-hmm. - He was getting made fun of by Matt Carter way before anyone else. - That's so funny. - I know. Yeah, man, it's been, that is, I mean, shit. Dave, the number of actual relationship I have with people I've never met because of this is crazy, dude. - Yeah. - It is, the internet's a wild place, man. - It is. - And like real relationships. It's not like a... - Oh, yeah. Like helped each other, cried with each other, talked with each other. - Totally. - It, it, it bums me out. Well, it, I guess it's good because it means, you know, I can have these relationships everywhere, but it bums me out that I can't just get everybody in one place, you know? - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, I know Dave was able to do some of that with like, do they still do dopey con? - Yeah, he wants me to go and be a part of it this year. I just can't, I got, you know, I got this baby, dude. - Yeah, we'll take your baby to New York. - Well, we are, but the problem is we're going to, we got two things in October already, so. - Oh, gotcha. Yeah, that's the problem when you have kids is like, there's so many things, there's just so many things. - We said this was, this was like me and George's, this is like a bucket list item, and I can't believe we actually were able to do it, but Arcade Fire is doing a 20th anniversary show for funeral at Red Rocks, and we got tickets. - At Red Rocks? - Yeah. - Damn dog. - Yeah, they're only doing two shows in the United States for that plan. - No way. - Yeah. - That's crazy, that's crazy. - I know, and we didn't even get seats next to each other, but we're like, we have to go, I mean, we cut. - I thought Red Rocks was all general admission. - They have a general admission section, and then they have a reserved section. - Oh. - Yeah, and so it's like, you don't have to fight for your spot, you just have it, but general admission, you gotta fight for it. - Yeah, yeah. - Which I can fight, you know, I'm pretty strong now. - Road 'em both. - What if, how funny would it be if, like, if somehow there was an alternate reality where just physical might makes right, never went away, and so like, if you're at the grocery store, you can be like, "Hey bro, I wanna get in front of you," and you just like challenge them to a fist fight, and if you beat 'em, like you can go in the front of the line. Hey Maggie. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Oh yeah, we adopt a little magnolia ray since-- - Yeah. - Say hi Maggie ray. - Oh, say it again, it cut out. - Say hi. - Is she mouthing it, or-- - Do you remember Uncle Jed, Ruth's daddy, yeah. - Yeah. - I did not have a weird face. - You still have a weird face. (laughing) - That's a useful face. - Really? - Good job. (laughing) - Yeah. - Let me go on, sweetie. I'm gonna finish this up. - You have adopted a child, and your other two children have grown up. - Guy's a full-on teenager now. Like he's not technically, but he's like 12 going on 16 without a doubt. Maggie ray, go on and shut the door. - And he's acting it, huh? - Oh, a million percent, oh my God. Let me, let Maggie get out, go on baby. - Did I tell you, I think I told you this story when you were here. - Tell it though. - I mean, tell it. - Tell it. - Yeah, tell it. - Oh, bro, it was so great. (laughing) We, I, we've been helping this elderly, it's actually my old sponsor from Cali, he's, he'll never hear this. He's my old sponsor from California, and we moved him out here, 'cause he's old, as old timers are, and never had kids, never got married, any of that stuff. And so we've been taking care of him. And so I say that to say Emily was out taking care of like an emergency. And I was here and I also like have a job. And so was trying to like get work done. And, and I was like, hi, bro, you've got to watch, you got to not even watch, you got to just like hang out with your siblings for an hour. Just like give me an hour of uninterrupted work time. And he's like, no, I shouldn't have to. I blah, blah, blah, it's my room, yay, whatever. And so I was, all right, fine, bet, give me your phone, right? And so I took his phone and I came back into my room and then I was like, shit, Emily's laptop is in there too. And so I was going back for the laptop and he's like, he opened the door, nothing, no preface, no anything, but he had gotten like riled up, like between like those, that minute in between there. And I was like, I hate you, fuck you, dad. And I swear to you and slam the door in my face. And thank God he did because I really almost cried laughing. Like I had to hold it every bit of it in and run back to my room and laugh later. But it was, it was one of the, it was one of the best with my life. - It was really great. - That's holy, I'm so glad you had that reaction too. I guess that, well, so number one, that wouldn't have flown in the pain household. - Oh, whoa, could you imagine me saying fuck you to Pat? - Dude, Pat would have beat the shit out of you. - You got into this fight, as a full teeny. - Yeah, bro. - Yeah, I don't think there was a parent in our friend group generation that you could have said that too. - No, ass was. - Without getting, oh yeah. - That would have been real bad, dude. - Ooh. - Yeah, no, I thought it was really funny. I was like, dude, I fucking was a, thought I was a hardcore punk rock kid, like saying fuck you to me, that's bad. - Right, that's like sneezing. Yeah, it's like, do you know what we used to call each other? Like our friends. - Right, our friends. - Yeah, yeah, it was really funny. It was really great. I mean, and then Emily had to talk to him after that 'cause I was like, he has to have, he had some consequences. I don't even know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - He had some consequences. You can't like just say that to people. He had some consequences, but we didn't, you know, I will say too, like being sober and living like a spiritual based life and lifestyle is like we get to be the parents that our parents couldn't be and break some of that. Like it didn't have to be a giant thing. Like he's full of hormones and whatever and it can't just like not nothing happen but it wasn't like a. - Right, right. - It wasn't the end of the world, you know? - Yeah, that's a good point. That's a, oh, yeah, that's a good point. And that'll be interesting when I get there. - I see. - Oh, yeah. You know, do you think it's, does it have, does that have to happen for every kid, do you think? - I think at some point in time, so like, well, and Emily has done, you know, my wife, she's the researcher, but she's read all of the psychology and was a child development major, but she was telling me very recently that like their brains are changing in addition to like hormonal changes and they are carving out their own place in the family unit and it's like supernatural to not supernatural, it is very natural to, you know, stand up, like stand up for themselves on whatever way that they feel is appropriate. And to them, a lot of things that we say feel like threats. It's like part of the psychology and biochemistry that's going on. And so, yeah, I don't know. I think it, I think to, I say all that to say, like I think to some degree. - Yeah, for sure. Like, I know I, it wasn't, I never said any of that stuff, but. - No, but we said what I could without. - Yeah, and we certainly like dug our heels in the sand in our own ways, dude, by like just getting arrested. - Yeah, I acted out, fuck you, Dad. - Yeah, man, oh my God, in so many words. - Yeah, it'll be, yeah, and it'll be interesting raising a girl, you know? I think, yeah, I always think that and, you know, if it ever happens that we do have another, and it's a boy, I don't know, that's, it's a very, I can already just already tell it's a very different thing. - Yeah, and I'm very, you know, I always, I'm in that like, liberal camp where I question, like, do we have to have these gender norms? Do we have to do all of that? Do we have? And I can say just like, in my circumstance, the girl that we have is so different than the boys that we have. Like, Emily doesn't wear makeup. Emily doesn't do any of that stuff. Emily still doesn't wear heels ever, and Magnolia is immediately drawn to, oh, she has a whole makeup kit, and like five and like rockin' heels, and like, she's chasing around chickens in heels. You know what I'm sayin'? - That's great. - And it's just so interesting that she had no influence, and like, that's exactly where she went, you know? - Yeah. - And I don't know that that's the same for every kid, but-- - No, it's definitely feminine. - Yeah, that's what my dad was saying, how, like, of course, nurture has its role, but he's like, man, the person that they're gonna be to a large degree is already like set. Which is interesting, which is, that's why I was asking you, I was like, do you think how they are, as an infant, has any read on like what they're gonna be? It's like a toddler preteen and all that, 'cause Ruth is so chill right now. I'm like, oh god, I'm spoiled now if and when she becomes, like, you know, the terrible things and all that. - I would say, so like, Levi was pretty chill as a baby, and then as a toddler, I mean, he's just wide up. - He used to headbutt me in the nuts, dude. Like, full gallop. - Yeah, he don't, he'll fuck you up. - He was like a triceratops, bro, for the balls, dude, straight for it. - Yeah, well, and he was non-verbal until he was three or something. And, but he would, he would make dinosaur noises. He'd growl at you and like, headbutt you, for sure. - Which was, and then, and then when I saw him the next time, like a sweetie, like a softie. - Oh my gosh. - Oh my gosh. - Yeah. - He's soft. - Yeah, he's so tender. He's still wide open, like physically, like run, jump, climb, but emotionally he's very, very tender. Yeah, so I think, you know, toddler, for, in my experience, it's like, kind of toddler on, toddler gives him a better read. - Better idea. - Like, what they're gonna be like as kids. - Yeah. - So yeah, yeah. - It's a cool, it's a cool thing, just like, you know, I guess, you know, could I look back at the first episodes and read how the show was gonna go, you know. Now the show is-- - Dude, I've changed so much for that period of time. - Yeah, I have too. Yeah, our beliefs and stuff, like-- - Oh my God. - That is pretty interesting. - I was like, I had to wear a suit and tie to work every day when we started. I don't, I don't have a suit anymore. Like, I don't, you know, like, I don't own one. But yeah, my beliefs, like all of the things have changed dramatically. - You're full. - I kind of know about that. I think maybe more of like, just let go of things. I don't think that they've changed all of the way, but like, I've let go of a lot of what I thought were like correct details, if that makes sense. - Yeah, you worship Satan, but that's the only difference. - Pretty much, pretty much. - Pretty much, pretty much. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You can't see it, but there is a Baphomet effigy right behind him currently. - I did get an upside down cross tattooed. - I thought, I was wondering if that was a mole, but okay. - Mm, no, it was like, it's like the 21 Savage, but upside down. - Yeah, dude. - Yeah, it's, man, and I would say, because of the people that I have talked to, I have open theologies, probably the most recent example of like that really kind of like, what? That was a kind of a watershed moment that really made me change the way I look at some things. - Yeah, and we've talked about that briefly. It's so funny, I'm so far removed from any of that stuff. Like I don't even, I had to like Google what that meant just now 'cause it doesn't matter to me. - Right. - Like not if it matters. - Right. - But I guess like, yeah, I do believe in an afterlife and I think everybody that wants to go goes, you know, and I guess that's open theology. - Well, open theology is just in a nutshell, it's the idea that God doesn't know the future because the future doesn't exist and he experiences reality in real time with us and at any given moment, we can choose to participate with God or work against God. - I'm here for that too. - Yeah, and so it's the idea that prayer actually matters because God, because things have not happened yet and God like-- - Oh, we can change. - Change not pre-ordained. - Yeah, exactly. - That's like the most on what's that two lit-- - Calvinist. - That's like the complete opposite, the Calvinism. I am, yeah, I'm here for that. And I was also very much very, very recently thinking, like 'cause I'm taking these new guys through the steps of AA. And we think about and talk through kind of like, what does your higher power look like? And I truly think that my relationship and like intellectual understanding of God, I really don't think God is fully all powerful. You know what I'm saying? - Whoa. - They're very, very, very powerful creator of the universe, yes. But I just can't get around, like everything happens for a reason, like I just don't buy it. Like not saving children, like that whole thing, it just like gets still to this days. Like the only thing that makes sense to me is that God for whatever reason, whether it's self-limiting or whatever reason is not all powerful, you know, so. - Or it is. - It is factors. - Or basically, you mean he does not pick and choose and intervene, it's so it's not that he-- - 'Cause the God of my experience would save, would not let a baby get AIDS. - Right, right, right, right. And so that's kind of open and relational where it's, that is a byproduct of the broken world we're currently in and God desires that babies not have AIDS, but he would like humans to participate. - Well, I mean, but it's like he could like, could he theoretically? I would say yes, but yes, it seems to be, it seems to be that yes, he chooses not to-- - Again, I don't, there's no proof to me either way that if it's self-limiting, he chooses not to or he can't because of the university he's created in certain motion. - So yeah, that seems like the same thing because if he created something that he can't affect then that would be like a self-limiting thing. - Sure, yeah, because he could just scrap it, yeah. - Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been thinking about a lot because that my old AA sponsor that we moved here is declining rapidly with dementia and Alzheimer's. And this man prayed, had an incredible relationship with his God, with God for 40 years. His whole life was centered around helping alcoholics recover from alcoholism for 40 years. He worked out with a personal trainer for the last 20 years. Like his body's in tip-top shape in his mind is just going and it's wildly unfair, you know? And so I'm like, I'm just, you know, I'm like, well-- - Do you think like God of me? - In my, the only thing I can think through this is like, that's just genetics and God couldn't, can't do anything about it. You know? And-- - Oh, that is the, yeah, and what you're talking about is essentially the hardest question that has to do with God. And it's basically what is the problem of evil? Like why does bad things happen to good people? Like-- - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. - And nobody has-- - And that's the only thing I can, I can't wrap my mind around like God is true. - Yeah, because I believe God still loves him unsurpassingly. But yeah, that's-- - Of course. - I mean, I think-- - Let me back up a little bit, his dad died from Alzheimer's complications and this is his absolute worst fear. - Oh, yeah. - It was happening. He's been terrified for, since I've known him for the last 15 years of this happening. - It terrifies me. - Yeah. - I'm sure that's everybody. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah, that's terrifying. - I mean, the wildest do not resuscitate. If he can't feed himself, we're not allowed to feed him. If he can't give himself water, we're not allowed to give him an IV drip. - That's-- - He does not want to live like that. - Yeah, that's, me and Georgia had that conversation. Is that weird? It was basically like, hey, if I'm in that situation and there's no progress within a week, then you have to find a way to let me go. Like, and if the doctors won't do it, you're gonna have to smother me with a pillow. And that's what I made. I made her promise and she said, okay, yeah, I absolutely do. - I'm not joking. Yeah, so it's just so unfair. And like the loving God that I've been like in communion with for ever wouldn't do that, like doesn't do this. - So I can't, I just can't help but think like, if God had the power to do it, to change it, to fix it, he would. - Yeah. - Yes, yeah, yeah. - And it's just a spiritual truth that I know. You know what I mean? - Yeah. - So, yeah, I had a lot of like really deep like what the fuck God conversations with God. And that's what I've settled into is like, it's like, you know, I wish I could. I can help you through this time and I'll help Jerry through this time, but you know, I can't change it. - That's a, I'm glad that's where you landed on, whereas a lot of people just, that's their, that's the time they get off the God train. And they're just like. - I was open to that. I was like, when I started that I remember very vividly, it was, I was on a long car ride and it was like, what the fuck God? Like I was very open to saying, fuck you. Like this isn't it. And, you know, prayer and being open to whatever I did. That's just the, the feels that I got, you know, or like. - You know, you know, Hane, Joey's friend, has you ever meet Hane? - I don't think so. - Oh, he lives in Asheville. God, so you should meet him. He's part of the, he's a firefighter. He's the shit, but he's part of the Pastor with no answers. He, so you really should go listen to the episode he was recently on, he, he broke his back and had the, he had a, it's the whole, his story of, fuck you God. - You should check it out. You should, you need to hook up. He's a solid, solid, solid dude. He's cool as hell. - Cool. - Yeah, and if your house is on fire, he will put that shit out. - That's good to know. Good to know. - So life, life has changed a lot. - Life has changed an awful lot. - But we're still here. That's also cool. - Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, I'm here sometimes. - Yeah. - Most of you are here. - Well, we're here on the earth. How about that? - Sure. - Yeah, sure. And, and we're still friends and I still love you, buddy. - Well, I still love you too. - Always be friends. - Indeed, indubitably. - All right, well, you got anything to say to the congregation? - I can't believe y'all weirdos are still listening to this dumb shit. And I love you anyway. - Yeah, that's how they're cooking crumbles. - That's (laughs) - Yeah. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
