G'day. I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter and professional oversharer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure because I believe it's a chance for us to learn, grow and face our blind spots. Each week I'll interview a different guest about their highs, as well as their lows, all in a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail. Welcome to the pod. This is a chat with the wonderful actor Travis Jeffrey. So this is essentially his second time on the pod. And if you listen to last week's pod, we re-release that episode. And then this episode was recorded very recently, all because he is in the brand new film, Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. He plays Annaya, this cheeky, innocent, but also quite a little brave chimp. And we talked about everything that went into being in Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes from the audition process to getting the call when he got the job and having this moment and having a little tear, but then because it was all embargoed, having to keep it secret for a while to ape school, being trained by the iconic and wonderful Andy Serker. So if you are into acting, writing anything creative, this episode is for you, we also talk about Dusty, which is Travis' new project that he has written, starred in and produced. And it's going really, really well. It's been up at Film Festies. And he's going to send me links for you. So you'll get to see it all in the show notes as well, or at least be links to the trailer in the show notes, should I say. So if you're creative, I hope you love this episode. Travis, thank you so much for jumping on the pod. Again, I can't wait to have you on in the future as well. I am overhearing you on my friend. Travis, Jeffrey, I want to say welcome back to the pod, because this is your second time on. It is. Happy to be back. Mate, when I saw you in LA, I want to say about a month ago. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I felt like because I've been following you on Insta and you were here for this incredible red carpet. He are launched for the Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, which you are a lead in. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I was watching this all unfold on your Insta in the first bit. It's like, yeah, I mean, I like standing out the front of a big billboard. Yeah. Neck minute, you're at the Chinese theater for the premiere, which is like, holy mackerel, I imagine, as an actor, like a huge pinch me, like, yeah, pick off. Yeah. Just a little one. I was about to say, is that not a big one? Okay. I don't even know where to start, because I'm so excited to talk to you. Let's start there. Like, was there a moment where you were like, Oh my God, I am standing on the red carpet at the Chinese theater on Hollywood Boulevard? I like, was there this moment? Was it like out of body? How did you feel? There's probably about 10,000 of those moments. I think every step was a moment. It was very surreal. It was amazing, you know, to have a premiere of a film of that size at the Chinese theater is just, you know, it's a huge dream come true and a film that I'm very proud of. So I worked very hard to stay present while doing the premiere, because I knew that I would, you know, and these things are overwhelming, you know, to be plain, they're terrifying. You know, you've got hundreds, you've got hundreds of thousands of people lining the barriers. We do it in Australia, but not the same level as over in LA, which, you know, it's very, very cool. And I knew it would be overwhelming when you've got all these cameras and you've got your chatting to people. And so I, before I was like, you know, just try and breathe. Just try to take it in because this is, this is, you know, it's a big thing. And it wasn't absolutely surreal and absolutely incredible. I, for the listeners at home, because I live in Los Angeles, when there is a premiere on Hollywood Boulevard, it literally is becomes gridlock. It's pretty much blocked off. And I know for your premiere, there were literally actors in full dressed up like chimps on horses going down Hollywood Boulevard. Am I correct in saying that? Yes, they did chips on horses for the premiere. Yeah. I think it's just like, it feels like the theater becomes part of the set. And like, it is larger than life. It feels like it is. Absolutely. You know, they had a big proximus heads above the entranceway. And you know, that's lined with all this greenery and the red carp. It's kind of like a more moroni rusty kind of colored carpet. And they do that, you know, it's, it's a set design, which is, which is really cool. You know, they make it kind of an immersive experience as you're walking down the carpet. So it's, you know, sorry for anybody got stuck in traffic, there's going to be some people not happy about this one, but it's OK. So can we go back? So if you've, if you've got this beautiful, like pinch me, like, mark at least this moment, and we've, you've been on this pod before, you've had a few really epic career moments, whether it be Pirates of the Caribbean or unbroken, but like standing there on that red carpet, like, can you take me back to one, the audition process, like getting that first, that first round audition and being like, OK, like, let's, let's do this. How did the, how did your audition go? And I'm guessing you did it all from Australia. Yeah. Yeah. So I did it all, all from Australia. It's, you know, it's just been, it's been an incredible experience from start to finish. But I guess where it all sort of started, it was, it was really great, really great timing, you know, it had been a kind of a bumpy sort of few years in Australia, you know, with as is everywhere with COVID and wasn't a lot of work going on. And I was kind of doing a job, you know, I paid a bills job that I really didn't like wasn't great on my lower back. I wasn't having a great, you know, great time. And then in addition for Forbidden Zone came through, which is kind of, they always, you know, chuck a title on it. That's not, not the actual title of the film. And it's always sort of the same. It was the same, but I'm broken, same with Pirates of the Caribbean. I look at this audition and go, okay, you guys are having a laugh. That's, you know, it's not attainable. This is, you know, why, why am I doing this? You know, but we always do, we always, you got to have a crack. So I put the audition down with my partner, Shani, you know, she always helps me read, you know, it's great to have somebody who you're comfortable with, who you can have fun with. And I went into it going like, okay, well, this isn't going to go anywhere. But let's have as much fun as possible. You know, it was being cast through the Emating Danny Long in Sydney. And all the briefing, you know, the briefing was really, really great. You know, Deb Zayn in the States was doing the casting. It's really clear. I got the briefer and Nia and I was like, okay, I know, I know who this, this chimp is. Let's have as much fun as we can with it. So I did the first audition, I think on a Friday, and then Danny Long called me the next day on the Saturday, and she's like, Hey, love your audition. Let's just want to have a quick chat through a couple of things. Let's do it again. And then we'll get it off. So you know, that was just from the beginning, it was already really generous and really lovely and really supportive, you know, and Danny always is. So I did the second one. And then I think on the Monday or Tuesday, I got a call and my agent was like, okay, so Wes, Wes Ball wants to have a chat on those the director, like the director, who's, you know, he's done a lot of amazing stuff. He's done a maze runner and a maze runner trilogy. And so she was like, he wants to have a chat on Thursday. And I was like, Oh, that's, I don't know what that means. You know, there's now the information. I was like, is this an audition? Is this, you know, what are we, what are we doing? So I jumped on a Thursday, kind of ready for anything else. I don't know if I'm doing the scenes. I don't know what's going on and jumped on. And he was like, Hey, bud, what do you want to talk about? And I was like, Oh, I don't know. Wes, what do you want to talk about? And he's like, Oh, I don't know. Well, it's your storyboards. And I was like, yeah, I want to say the storyboards. And he just, you know, for an hour, we just chatted about, you know, his amazing vision for, for, for Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. And you know, I'll never forget this moment because it doesn't happen often at the end of it. Um, he was like, look, but there, you know, there's a, there's a process which, you know, means that it will go off out of his hands to the studio to, you know, higher up. He's like, there's a process, but we just wanted to let you know that you did a really good job. And I was like, thank you. That's, you know, as actors, and you, you know, you know, you just send these self tapes off into the void sometimes. And, and you know, 95% of the time, you never hear anything. So that really meant a lot. And kind of from, from there, it was just everything was a cherry on top. You know, I was like, I've done a good job. You know, they, they liked my work. And in my mind, it was kind of like that's, that's where it's going to end. You know, it's going to get to the process is going to happen. And then, you know, somewhere, it's a, you know, we get used, used to not hearing those as actors, you know, you got to build up that sort of skin. And, but it keeps kind of going a little bit further, you know, maybe a few weeks later, my agents are, okay, they've submitted you to the studio. And then, you know, and then it goes, goes higher up and you get closer and you get closer and the closer you get the more, the more it hurts if you hear that. I was shooting something down in Victoria on a farm and my agent called me and she's like, you've been approved. There was about a month later and, you know, she had a few tears in a paddock in the middle of Victoria and started Ape Camp, Ape School, about six weeks after that, I think. So, and then just getting better and better from there. So, yeah, I'm so glad you brought up Ape School or Ape Camp because I know you're whopper trained and I know like you are an actor that loves physicality. And I think what a gift to, there's so many gifts from Ape School, I imagine, from like bonding with your like co actors as well, because like, I feel like film and TV feels quicker than theater. But this would almost feel like theater because you've got this six weeks of almost like, yeah, rehearsing in a sense or like feel it like getting into the physical side of things. So I'm so excited to hear about the physical because even just from like a center of gravity point of view, it would feel very initially, I imagine, foreign. Absolutely. Yeah, as you said, Ape School, Ape Camp was an absolute gift as an actor, as a human being, you know. I've always been a huge fan of movement when I was at drama school, my movement coach Lisa Scott Murphy really kicked off that, that love of movement. You know, there's a lot of movement stuff that maybe people don't realize goes into acting. You know, there's a lot of, you know, you kind of look around and you can kind of see animals in everybody, you know, and people use that sometimes as a way to approach your character. Like, oh, maybe, maybe that person's a bear or a snake or, but this was literal work that we got to do, which was, you know, so it's kind of, it's funny. People always kind of ask you, as an actor, what's your dream job? And I've never really had one, you know, because doing film and TV career, it's not written yet. Like, you know, you got like, well, my dream job's not written yet because I haven't done it. But looking back, you know, Planet of the Ages has really just ticked every box. And it was kind of the dream job that I never knew, you know, I wanted to be in it. But once I sort of got in there and saw everything, it really was a dream job. So yeah, eight school, it was amazing. Just to build these characters, to have that rehearsal, as you said, almost like theatre, it's just such a luxury in the film and TV industry. You know, you get it in theatre, but most Australian film and TV sort of gigs your rock up, you might meet your same partner on the day, like a one day rehearsal. But to have six weeks to build characters together, to just get into the intricacies of, you know, the eye movements and the head movements and the hands, you know, and it was just, it was just such a gift. And what the byproduct of it, which was amazing. And I think they're such geniuses for doing this. Obviously we needed to nail the chimp, you know, nail the movement, but it just, it brought us all so close together. We all became such good friends. I think, you know, a big part of it was how silly you feel for the first week of just running around making chimp noises, watching, watching everybody dive into 150%, you know, which really got you to lift your game as well. But it's a, it's a vulnerable thing. You know, being an actor, you know, in front of people is vulnerable enough, but doing something that we've never done before. Outside and comfort zone. Yeah, just getting that primal and that sort of animalistic, you know, really bonded everyone and Owen Teague and Lydia Pickens, who I spend most of the film with, they played the other team, team chimps. Yeah, we just got so close, you know, they, they, um, led since from New Zealand and Owen's from the States. So we were hanging out in Kuchy, you know, where I lived in Sydney, just showing them around and just sort of all our tour guide. Yeah. Let's see. Is it true? Is it true that Andy Serkis jumped on our little zoom and was like, all right, guys. It is very true. Oh my goodness. The greatest of all time. So that was just, you know, I could have retired happy there, having a chat with Andy Serkis. Well, people might know him like listening as Golan, but really Caesar, he's played Caesar, right? Like in not one, but two Planet of the Apes movies, right? Three. Three. Yeah. So he was the lead of the last trilogy. So he really kind of knows it, pioneered and knows this, this new sort of era of, of Planet of the Apes films. So to have his expertise and, and to have his guidance and mentorship was just, it just kept getting better. Yeah. I feel like this is like a tour ending Easter egg. Yeah. Absolutely. Just kind of, you know, every day, something awesome happened. But it was, it was amazing. And just kind of, he's such a generous, you know, such a generous guy, you know, I think it was quite late at night every time he jumped on with us because of the time difference, but he was just still as in it, you know, he's just still losing into it as when he was shooting, when he was playing Caesar. So it was, it was amazing. And his environment, his advice was incredible. It, it's such, you know, what going into this, what I've really learned about these productions is that it's just such a collaboration. Every memory production is a collaboration, you know, between the actors, the director, lighting, sound, you know, everyone make up here. It's all such a collaboration. But this side really brings in the technical kind of elements. So we're the guys that were doing the special effects, the motion capture. But Andy is, he's just become a master at each side of it, which is, which is really incredible. So he, you know, his Caesar, his performance, his acting is just mind blowing, you know, he's an incredible, he's an incredible actor, but then watching him. So they really took care of us on, on, on planet of the apes. You know, a lot of us had never done motion capture before. That was my next question. Like, what was that like? And you've got spots on your face and a little balls stuck to you. Yeah. So it's really, I'll find some photos that I can share, share with you and then we can share them. So it's, it's a whole new world of sort of performance for me. And it kind of they really, they really looked after us in a way of sort of teaching us what motion capture was and what the technology does and how to use it and how to utilize it as a performer to your advantage. Because it can be, you know, it's pretty overwhelming to begin with. So you covered in dots, you know, I think I had 123 dots on my face each day. You've got a helmet on. That's got a, that's got a boom. That's got a little arm that comes out. You've got a camera right in front of your face. Performance capture camera. And that, you know, just tell me that your face can be a little bit overwhelming to begin with. And then you're in, you know, a very attractive, skin tight suit all day every day with battery packs on your back. You know, we've got it easy compared to, you know, you look at photos of Andy doing it. We're going to first sort of start it, I think, maybe Kong, and he's plugged in, you know, it's a big black suit that's plugged in, but it's so versatile now. So they, they really looked after us in that training aspect. So we did like four, four or so weeks with our movement coach, Elaine, who's just this incredible movement coach, just such a beautiful human being. And then we went with him into what they call the volume, which is the play space, which is in the studio. It's a big gray carpet that's surrounded by these, these infrared cameras that pick up your dots that you're talking about, that you're talking about. So they, they, they emit little infrared flashes and it's all, all picked up. So about four weeks into, to eight school, eight camp, we got into that space and we got to work with Andy, that sort of live, put a live feed up of us with kind of not our ape, not like a nya, and that you'd see the end of the film, and a puppet that they would put over us. So we could see how each little, each little movement would translate to, okay, well, I never, maybe a little bit lower back a little bit, you know, and listening to Andy sort of direct us through scenes, like his direction. It's really beautiful and really intelligent. He's such an intelligent actor and performer, but then listening to him to listening to him chat to wetter as well. You know, he could just, he's just a master of both sides, which he's, you know, he's got his own studio in, in London and just, that, that was really amazing. And then, you know, we, we felt really comfortable and really safe by the time we got to day one, we knew, knew enough about the technology, knew enough about it to feel free, to feel free. Yeah. And, and it's just practice having these things on your face, you know, you've got to practice, like, you know, the first time we're doing an intimate scene where we've got to be close to each other, you know, we're sort of fighting with these things, dodge each other. So it's, it, yeah, it's a lot of practice and, and they really looked after us with that. So it's, yeah, we felt really looked after. I have to ask about Anaya because Anaya had some, so we've talked about the physical and the motion capture side of things, but there was a beautiful character to Anaya where like there was a cheekiness. There was like hope, but then there was like moments of like being scared and vulnerable and like there were like, how would you, like, I don't even know how to ask his question, but like, how would you describe Anaya's personality to somebody that might not have seen the movie? Yeah. I think, you know, he's cheeky. He's yes, fun. You know, he's, he's brave until, until he gets broken, I think. And I think that really hurts him in the film. You know, I think, I think deep down in, in an eye, there's a bit of an Ozzy Larrickin. Yes, yes. I think that's kind of, you know, he's just got an American chin accent, but underneath he's just, you know, an Ozzy. You know, he's such a gift to an actor and I knew it, as I said, before the briefing from, you know, from 20th century and from Deb Zane and Danny, the briefs, they sent out to actors. You know, so what these are, if anybody doesn't know, it's when you get in audition, they'll send you out a character brief. So I'll be like, Anaya, you know, the cheeky friend. You know, so from that moment of reading that brief, you know, I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was like, you know, the cheeky, cheeky friend of Noah, who gets captured by Proximus and, and broken, something like that. And you know, from that moment on, I, I, I sort of knew that Anaya to me always represented innocence in the film. You know, so yeah, great. And, and, you know, it was important for me to, you know, with an eyes arc, it's such a beautiful arc. It's really important to make it as fun and as free and as happy as possible in the beginning with this trio, with this beautiful friendship. So then when the darkness comes, it hurts even more. You know, so. No, you say that beautifully, beautifully, my friend. It was anything that after filming stopped that you, because it is such a physically, like, you really had to commit physically vocally, I imagine as well, like, the chimps larynx is not like a human's larynx. And like, like, that you talk to actors about sometimes like letting go of roles. And I just think it sounds like all of you in every intro I've watched, you've just completely, like you said at the start, 150%, like you dove in, right? You jumped off the cliff. You had that kind of like, we're going to do this. And that trust was there anything that was hard to let go of post the shoot with Anaya? Absolutely. I still walk up the stairs as a champ. It's just, you know, I don't want to let it go. It's just too much fun, you know. And chimps, you know, chimps are just such efficient movers. So like, you know, there's still a lot of an iron. And I always, you know, the thing I love about acting and the thing I love about discovering character and, you know, my belief, you know, it's just me as an actor is, it all starts from you. It's just, it's just a different, parts of you that you explore and you grow. And, you know, for some roles, it might be like, okay, well, this is pretty angry guy. Let's, how do we grow that part? How do you know? So it's always authentic, always, you know, it's always rooted in truth. So I love, I love it when characters, you know, rub off on me in a good way. Like, Anaya is just hard on sleeves, you know, just loving and fun and free. And, you know, I just try and keep, keep as much as that of that going as possible. You know, I try to walk up as straight as possible. But you know, there's still, it's still in my body, because we did it for seven months, you know. But yeah, it's, you're just going to be aware of it, I guess, you know, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's something to keep. I say keep walking up the stairs like Anaya. I think, I think keep it with you. I, I have to ask this just as through an actor's lens, like having worked now on like, that's your third as far as I'm aware, like big American feature, huge. Do you ever get the itch to be like, I'm going to go to America because obviously you've got these American credits now. You've, you've worked with some of the greats already. Do you ever get the itch to come over here? Obviously it's a beast, it's very different to Australia. Yeah, absolutely. And I think we chatted about this last time, four years ago, I think, absolutely. And I do, you know, I come back and forth as much as I can. And then, you know, it has obviously been such a tricky few years with travel and totally we're chatting last time. And I just started my visa process. And I got my visa and COVID hit and now it's just about to expire. So, it's three years of COVID visa. But yeah, it's absolutely. And, and you know, I, I love the energy of the States and I love the people I've got such good friends there. I also just love us living in Australia, you know, living in Kudji, in Sydney, it's just a lucky country beautiful. And it is, you know, we're incredibly lucky and, you know, everywhere it's got its problems and things that, you know, need to be sorted out. But I live in a very beautiful place, you know, near the beach in Sydney and my family's down in Melbourne. I grew up on a cattle farm. So I can come down here a lot. And, you know, I've been very lucky with the unbroken shooting in Queensland, bloody hell shooting in Queensland, pirates in Queensland, the preacher in Melbourne, you know, and then, and then planet of the apes in Sydney. So, I mean, so lucky with getting, you know, big American jobs whilst getting to stay in a place I love. But, but in staying in saying that, you know, I would love to work in America. And, you know, I mean, that's, you know, travels a lot easier, you know, plan to spend a lot more time there. Absolutely. You know, I think it's, I think it's really important to spend time on the ground there, developing those relationships, you know, there, there's something that have served me so well in Australia's been in the last 10, 12 years getting to know, you know, directors, producers, all the casting agents. I think that groundwork is, is really important and, and really, really necessary. So I think it's a, it's a balance. You know, when, when I have, you know, when I think about moving to the States, I would always, always move for a life change rather than just as an actor. Because I think it's very easy to move somewhere and kind of not get stuck. But I've had a lot of friends that are like, great, I've got, you know, saved up for three months in America. You know, I'm going to go, you know, live my dream, going to make it happen. And then they come back and they haven't, and nothing's happened and it's, you know, deflating and it's, so I think it's always really important to no matter where you live, where you go, create a fantastic life. You know, like what you've done, you've created a happy, fantastic life outside of your, you know, dream job, your, your craft. So then when the good things happen, they're even better, but they don't, they don't define you. I'm a believer in a side hustle for an, and a lot of people, when I was acting school, take the mic, some teachers were like, this is the Olympics. This is the only thing that matters. And I get that in one sense of the word, but the other sense, the word I'm like, if you, if it's a resilience game, which I think it is sometimes like you've touched on, there's been quiet moments and time pockets of time where it can be trickier. And, and I think if that means it's a resilience game, you've got to have something else that you love that also feeds your creativity that you can do still well going for that dream so that you don't give up too soon. Like you don't do that. Come over on an S star, whatever it is and bleed through your cash and then run home. You know, I'm all for being savvy. I'm always like, have the side hustle, the dream alive, no matter what. Like never, you know, if you get a good audition, effing throw everything you've got at it. But at the same time, like have other things that fill your cup up. And I think that that is a good trick to resilience. And I love, I don't know, you would definitely know exactly Nick Offerman. And I just even heard a little beautiful. He said his trick. So he got cast in Parks and Rec at 38. And he said he's an NBC wouldn't cast him like the, the way you were talking about the process before how it's got to get to all these steps. And he said he had so much happiness and joy outside of acting. He was like, I was still acting. He's like, but he's like, I fell in love with woodwork. And he literally has a woodworking business on the side. And he said it made me stay patient for the acting stuff. And he said that was my, that was my trick. He's like, I stayed in it long enough to knock you up. And I just think, I don't know, I think that's a really interesting and cool perspective if you are in it for the long game, especially when Los Angeles is so beautiful and so amazing. And he talked about that epic moment of you on the red carpet at the Chinese theater. But it's also like a lot of auditions with Naughty. It doesn't even feel like rejection some days because you don't hear back. You just get so used to having no response. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's a lot of that as well. And so you've got to find that whatever that magic thing is for you to keep you on the course, but also like, keep that creativity like fed and alive. And you are to me, a beautiful quintessential working actor. Like I think your career already is one to be completely celebrated. But yeah, and this is where I wanted to start to talk to you about Dusty because you've written it, started it, produced it. You produced it as well. I'll produce it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's a few hats to wear, my dear friend. It was a few hats. Yeah. So neck body with all those hats. My point is is, and the reason why I bring this up is recently I interviewed Damon Herriman and he said he writes when he's not acting. And I love that you and you said that this was a two and a half year project of writing. Absolutely. And so you've had this thing that is anchored you and you've still stayed in your creativity, even when you might might not have been on the set of Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. You know what I mean? Or like, it's held you. I could be totally wrong. That's just a, I guess, more of a question than anything is writing something that fills that cup for you. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, what you said before about the resilience and finally love is just, you know, I don't want to brush over that because that's, I think what you said is so beautiful and so important. And I think when you find what you love outside of this, you know, this hard industry, it doesn't, it kind of takes away the need for resilience. And it's just longevity. You know, it's just doing what you, what you love. Because, you know, you do have to be resilient because there are a lot of nose or there are a lot of never here again, you know. But working out, I think, I think having the mindset of like, every experience is the ultimate currency, I believe, as an actor, as a creative, what you learn from each experience. So the audition I find is the job, you know, the audition is the end goal, do a great job with the audition, have fun with the audition, love the audition, and anything else is a bonus. You know, and there are times when it's up and it's down, it's deflating and it's hard, you know, I'm incredibly proud of my career. But over the 12 years, there has been ups, there's been downs, you know, the standing on the red carpet in Los Angeles, you know, it was 12 years in the, well, 12 years professionally, and they're making three years of drum school before that and it's six years of high school plays and local theater groups. And so I think it is so important and it doesn't have to be creatively, you know, writing is such a great anchor for me. But creating a life that you love and you enjoy outside of your job or, you know, and we're very lucky. We chase what we love, you know, we do for a job what we love. A lot of people don't get that luxury. You know, a lot of people haven't been able to do that. So I think, you know, when we get to work, it's great. But if we define ourselves by being actors, being writers, being creatives, that time in between, I think, for a lot of people and it's very easy for that to turn you bitter and for that too, because you work so hard and you've earned it. Nobody's, you know, I don't think anybody's entitled to anything, but a lot of people have worked very hard and a lot of people have burnt it. But there's a lot of luck involved in this industry. You know, there's a lot of hard work, but there's also a lot of luck. So I think those down times can be really upsetting when you've worked your ass off. So if you find something that you love in those down times, you're not just sitting here thinking about why isn't the phone ringing? Why aren't I getting work? And then, you know, you spend enough time in those down times, then audition comes, you go, well, fuck it. I'm not going to get it anyway. You know, what I keep putting myself out there. But if you can, you know, whether it be reading or woodwork, you know, or podcasts or yoga or whatever, you know, create a life that you love. So then when the jobs come, it's not the be all an end or it's great and it's amazing. And, you know, it's, it's a privilege and it's on and on it to get these jobs because there's not a lot of them, but it doesn't define you. It doesn't define who you are as a person. And it doesn't define your career and your life, you know, because if you're waiting for this big job, and I think a lot of actors do, and I certainly did for the first five years, the first, you know, 10 years was just be like, Oh, when when I get kingdom of the planet of the apes, I will then be happy when I can work when I can support myself. Just as an actor, I will then be happy. When you reach these milestones, you go, I'm not any happy. What's next? What would be next? You know, there's a lot of hustle mentality, which I think causes a lot burnout in this industry. And it's something you've got to really watch out for that burnout. Because then when the good opportunities do come, you can't put yourself fully into it because you're exhausted and you're down, you know, you deflated. So I think creating a wonderful life before the work is so important. And yeah, that's, that's where writing came into it. I just before COVID, so just the end of 2019, I started writing, and it was more so just as an exercise, I never expected to make anything unexpected to kind of to really take it any further than just an exercise as just a creative outlet. Because in this industry, as an actor, we're always kind of waiting for somebody to give us permission to act. We're waiting for somebody to say, Okay, you get the job. Now you can go act, which isn't true. You know, you can be working on monologues at home, you can do classes, you can do all that sort of stuff. But we spend a lot of time waiting as an actor. So I wanted to do something. I wanted to kind of take the reins creatively over my career and my life. And I thought writing was would be a great outlet. And I never expected it to turn into what it did. You know, if I never make anything again, you know, hopefully I will, and you know, I'm still writing. The experience of dusty and the experience of writing so far has just taught me so much. And I think I've learned more about acting from writing than I have from a lot of my other acting training. So it's just been such a valuable tool. And I always encourage actors to write actors to make things, not just, you know, not just to get yourself in front of the camera, but also understand everything behind the camera, you know, understand what the DIP is doing, understand what the producers are doing, what the directors do, just to make the experience more cohesive, you know, knowing how a set works, knowing, you know, what the lighting guys are doing, how long it's kind of going to take where you need to be when you need to be there. I find that just helps me kind of feel more comfortable as well, you know, on set. So yeah, it's been jumping behind the camera with the writing, producing sort of stuff has has been a really, really valuable experience. I, I, when you sent me the link to watch it, I didn't know what I didn't know what to expect. So I watched it. You are incredible, by the way. But then I was lucky enough to watch an interview you'd done about it after. So I didn't know until I watched an interview that had come from your own personal grief story and how you went through it kind of, it feels like it shines a light on sometimes the more uncomfortable ways we as human beings handle grief. Is that fair to say? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think so. It's, um, was always very important for me to, to sort of reflect my, that my start, my version of grief, my style of grief, you know, you know, everybody's got their own style of grief. And some are, you know, I'm learning to deal with things in a more healthy way. You know, when, when my, my friends, Deanna passed away, you know, she was one of the most incredible people on the face of the earth. You know, we dated for a long time and then we'd broken up and stayed close. And she was diagnosed with cancer. When she passed away, I, you know, I was, how old was I? I was like 20, 28, 20, you know, I didn't know how to deal with grief. Nobody ever teaches you, teaches you how to, how to deal with grief, you know, and it's quite a, you know, it's a very heartbreaking thing at the time. And still is a very heartbreaking thing. You know, these things never go away. But what I did was I just partied. I, and I think, you know, it's a very Australian thing. You know, I think, well, you know, I think it's a very universal thing. I just dealt with it through deflection, through humor, and, and through sort of numbing, you know, there's a big numbing culture. And it wasn't until, you know, dusty is kind of four or five years of probably grief squished into a four day, 15 minute short film, you know, the film's not really about Deanna specifically as a person, you know, wanted to honor her privacy. And it's more so how I dealt with a, you know, a with grief. So can I ask that being, that being such a vulnerable, like, and very personal story for you and you having written it, acted in it, produced it, cut to you at St. Kilda festival, film festival, like you short, I can only imagine that you were like, okay, well, there's a hunk of my heart on the screen right there. Yeah. Like, was that, were you flipping, shitting yourself? Were you scared? Like, I would be like, Oh, my God, my heart would have been in my throat. Me, it's in Kilda film festival. Yeah. I don't think I breathe for the 15 minutes that it was on the screen. Yeah, yeah, totally. Kuda, you know, that's great. That's very great. Yeah, I'm incredibly proud of Zusti. I'm incredibly proud of every single person's work in the film. You know, Jeremy Lindsay Taylor, the director's one of my best mates, Shannon Ryan, who plays the other character plays actually is my partner. The D.O.P. Kate Cornish is just just incredible. And she knew Deanna through this period of time. Just every step of the way, we just got incredible people involved. So I knew up on the screen how proud of it or I was, but it doesn't take away from the sheer terror. You know, and I was pretty objective all the way through the process. Like when I wrote it, I didn't realize I knew it was personal, but I could be like, okay, this is, this is separate for now. When we got to shooting it, I could be quite separate objective. I was like, I'm just doing my job as an actor, stepping in doing the role, you know, even though the role is a lot of me in the role. But then when we started to watch the rushes and get into the edit, I was like, oh, shit, I've got to be young people. This is, I don't know, you know, which is, you know, which is, I think good thing, you know, a lot of really incredible writers, you know, say right things that you're embarrassed to show people, because it's so real. And it was scary, you know, and has it just been, it's in Kilden? No, is it non-fist invest? Is that what it's called? It's invest Oz? Yes, cinefist Oz. So we've, yes, we're on our way to cinefist Oz, which is happening, but thank you very much. So cinefist Oz has always been a huge, a huge deal to me. It's a festival that's really close to my heart in 2015. I went for the first time for a spin out, and then I just kept going back. So to have, have our film Dusty play at cinefist Oz, it's just really, you know, really, it really means a lot. And it's a beautiful festival, beautiful bunch of people in a beautiful part of the world. So it's just, yeah. Do you know who you were reminding me of? And it's just because I fell in love with this movie at the start of the year. Have you seen Monkey Man? I haven't known. Yeah, it looks a lot. You have to see it. But Dev Patel wrote that movie in a garage in LA. He wrote it, directed it, starred in it, Netflix bought it, Netflix dropped it after he shot it, completely. And it was going to be a dead film. It's so incredible. And then Jordan Peele picked it up, recut it to sound and sold it to Universal for a third of the price. And it was just like this story. And there's this beautiful TikTok of Dev in premiere week in LA standing on a stage with a mic just bawling like just crying. Because he never thought his story was going to be told. And it got told. And it's a very personal story as well. You have to see it. There's so many synergistic things there. But I can't wait to see what happens with Dusty because there's a few things. It's like, it's so close to your heart. It is a chunk of your heart. It's already receiving love. Like, I really do hope like is the what like, because I've never been in or worked on a short film before, is it is the hope that then you get it into a few festies and then potentially it can become a feature? Is that is that the process? Yeah. So there's a lot of avenues and sort of, I think the biggest thing to come out of a short film is experience. You know, it's not often that you will ever make your money back on a short film. You know, the reason we made Dusty, it kind of started, it started as a exercise. Jeremy, the director was like, write something for you and Shania to do, I'll direct it, it'll be fun. You know, just he wants to get better at directing. I wanted to get better at writing and, you know, and it was something that Shania and I could do to get on the screen. And then it spiraled out of control in a fantastic way. So bigger and bigger and bigger. So yeah, there's lots of reasons to make short films. One, you know, a major reason for us was as a calling card. You know, for Jeremy, it's his debut as a director. For me, debut as a writer, you know, it's, I got to play a lead, you know, a lead in a story that, you know, has a, you know, it's a wild amount of emotion. So it was a good challenge for me as an actor. So I think that's why a lot of people write, write and make short films as almost a proof of concept of their craft. So then they can, you know, even if it's not the same film that they've, they've written, you know, they might be for their next feature. They go, well, I've done this. Have a look at that. You know, and festivals, festivals are a great way to sort of get your film out there. It's great to, to show to a lot of incredible filmmakers, a lot of incredible industry people. Yeah. So it's, I think you've got to make the, got to make what you're making for love. Same, same as anything. You know, you've got to have that love first because you're not going to make your money back. You know, and it can be, you've just got to, you put a lot of heart and soul into it. And you might not get into the festivals that you want to get into. And, and it might not do what you want it to do. And, and that's heartbreaking. But you know, you've still got to just do it, do it for the love and it's never a waste working in your craft. Absolutely. Nothing. Yeah. I, as you know, I write books. I'm an author by trade and you never write a book with the like, Oh, well, I hope someone so signs this, or I hope it gets there. You, you're writing this, you have to write this thing. There's no real other option. You know, and it feels like the same with you and Dusty. It's like, Oh, well, I have to do this thing. It's an expression of something that I'm that's in my heart and I have to share in the truth and all that kind of it. So I look, I'm so proud of you. I think you're absolutely flippin' wonderful. Thank you. I do, I do want to ask just a couple more questions. Yeah. As an actor, a lot of young actors listen to this pod now because as you know, I'm such an actor nerd and I just love interviewing actors and learning. And, and as a result, young actors listen to it. And so I guess if you had, you've had such a beautiful, but also a varied career, like you said, you know, when you got the call for Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, you know, you were standing in a field, you know, shed a little tear. You wouldn't really say anything to anybody. And then, you know, so advice for like an actor that is trying to start out and he's just trying to like get over that, that initial like, because it's not just like rejection with the auditions. It's rejection, like even getting a meeting with a flippin' agent for a young actor. And so I just think it's like, is your advice to be like, go out there and create and make stuff with your mates? Is that kind of like what you would say to a young actor? Absolutely. I think, you know, there's just so many things I would say to a young actor, you know, and things that I wish people had said to me, I think the most important thing is run your own race. I love that. No matter what career you're in, you know, people, I'm sure a lot of people disagree with this, but I don't think this is a competitive industry because the only person you're ever competing is yourself. You know, when it comes to getting a role, you will write for the role, or you will not write for the role. And the only thing is going to stand in your way if you'll write for the role is whether or not you have done enough work, you know, whether you were prepared, if you have made the most of this opportunity that is there, if you're not right for the role, you never get in that role. Sometimes that happens in Hollywood and you watch a film and you go, well, that was pretty miscast. But, you know, when you're starting out and when you're, you know, unless your megastar is just getting off, it's, you know, the role is yours. And kind of all the roles that I've been lucky to play, they fit when you get them, they fit. And that's what casting is looking for. So I think making sure that you're not comparing yourself to other people, other people's journeys, because some people just skyrocket, and some people, you know, it's a bit of a slow race. Some people, you know, spend 40 years doing this and then, then something happens. Whether you get the roles or not, you need to work out why you love it, what you love about it, why you're doing it, because that'll keep you going, what we're talking about before, you know, the resilience and the perseverance. If you're getting joy out of doing auditions with mates, if you're getting, you know, producing independent theatre, you can get the joy out of it at any level, if you know why you love it and you know why you're doing it. I think that's a great way to keep that longevity happening. And then just know that experience is what you want as an actor, you know, go out there, do short, free short films, you know, go out there, do play, play readings, do plays, do independent theatre, just work on your craft, because then when those big opportunities do come, you will be ready. I think the most, yeah. I feel like I just cut you off, but I, I, one of my favourite quotes, and it was someone I interviewed on the podcast, his name's Owen Teal, he was in Game of Thrones, incredible, incredible actor. Anyway, and he's like readiness is all, he's like an unquoting hamlet, he's like, but readiness is all he goes, you will eventually get that opportunity, but if you're not ready for it, he's like, it'll just slip straight through your hands. And he said, and when you do get that opportunity, he's like, you need to be willing to run with the momentum of that opportunity, because you don't know when the next opportunity comes. And he's like, so staying ready for when that opportunity comes, he goes, I've, yeah, he's like, I'm telling you, everyone gets an opportunity. He's like, but not everyone is ready for it. And I like that. Absolutely. Oh, yeah, I love that. And there can be so many reasons why the opportunity doesn't work, not being ready, but you know, being rusty, being upset at the industry, you know, and I think the love of it and creating a good life will keep you ready as a human being, you know, and then you can work on your craft from there without the bitterness, without, you know, being deflated, just knowing that every experience you take, as you said before, nothing is wasted. You know, if I read a book and there's one good phrase in there, then the book was worth it. You know, if you take one thing away from anything, it's worth it. You know, the greatest actors on earth have great light, you know, they have lived. And you got to, you got to live your life outside of this, because it will make this, it will make the better times better, you know, and then you've got something else when the times are down. So, yeah, I think that's great, great advice, readiness is all. Isn't it? It's a goodie. I also think, and this is one thing I've learned in LA, a lot of it, yes, a lot of it comes from like doing a Ripper audition, but a lot of it also comes from knowing people. And I think like we touched on that with like, you know, understanding and knowing and having great respect and great relationship with casting directors and directors. And it is about having those relationships because they'll be like, "Oh, actually, Travis is going to be perfect for this thing. I want to get him to read to that." And so, I think it's also like, if you're feeling bitter about the industry or stuff this is so much rejection, you're not going to be open to meeting those people or forming those connections or like eyes even on you. You know what I mean? Like, you've actually just got to be like, and I always say to people, and this is just like a good life hack. And it's funny that the first time you and I worked together was around Polish man, which is all about. - Yes. - You know. - Just coming back. - Yeah. - Coming back. And you do it every year. I see friend because you are absolutely amazing. But for me, I always say like, if you've got a good handle on your mental health, then you can probably like find those moments of joy in even shitty situations. Like, I remember I did a call back in LA, but they had called back every single Australian that was in LA. I was like, "Oh, I've got the accent. I'm going to fly through this one." I'm standing there, sides in hand. They changed the cut, like I got there, and they're like, "Actually, you're not playing Patricia anymore. You're paying Daisy, so you're trying to learn new sides on the spot." There's all these guys in a corner dressed like Abraham Lincoln, not linked to my audition at all. They're doing a different audition. And then down the hall, all I can hear is murderous screams, because other people are auditioning for a horror movie at the exact same time. It was just like, I was like, "This is an out of body experience." And also I felt it, because it was my first in-person one post-COVID. It was just like, "Oh my god, this feels like an assault of the senses in every way." And it was like 150 Aussies there, and that was cattle calling us through. And in the end, I had to just like walk away with the biggest smile on my face, because I was like, "I just learned so much." I did not think that was ever my best acting, but man, I just learned so much from being able to walk in and protect your energy and not be overwhelmed to be able to go with the flow and learn sides on the spot. I think even the doozies end up being really good experiences if you've got a good sense of self and that mental health piece, where you're like, "Okay, well, I did the best of a weird situation." Absolutely. I think just rolling with it is another great piece of advice. Just going with the flow and being open, being prepared enough to be open. That's a good one. Yeah, just be so on top of your shit, so then you can be free. And there's that great saying, "If you're not laughing, you're crying." I've been in a situation where I'm on set and the wind's blowing at 140 kilometers an hour on war films and things like that. Well, this is pretty fun, but here we are. Even when we talked last time, when you said we've unbroken you'd all lost so much weight, and so that was a quiet set, because we were all thinking about this. It was. It's just rolling with it. But the other question I did want to ask again for these younger actors is like, and you've touched on it a fair few times on this chat, but just not taking rejection personally and just being like, "Okay, and I think that I don't know if this is at all helpful, but every time I do an audition, I then throw the sides away. Like, I just don't think about it again." I'm like, "I like honor the moment. I give it a red hot crack and hit submit. Don't think about it again." And that helps me not worry about the rejection, because if I get a response about it, then that's a surprise, essentially. Absolutely. But what would your advice be around that kind of handling rejection, because it is part of the job, essentially? Absolutely. I think I said this last time, but it expects nothing, appreciate everything. I think it's such a great way to live life. And rejection and the nose, unfortunately, are a big part of it. And you look at every actor, I've been so lucky and you look at my career, but there are still 95% of the nose. I don't know how many thousands of auditions I've done over the years, and I've got 50-something credits on IMDb. So, the hit rate's not 100% for anybody. I don't think any actor, it's part of it. And it is practice, because when people go, "Don't take it personally," you go, "What? Don't take personally that you literally have just said no to my face and me and what I'm doing. How do I not take that personally?" But it's like what I said before, and that turns of trying to shift the mindset of the competitiveness in this industry, because that's another thing that can cause a lot of bitterness and things like that. You've got to push yourself, work as hard as you can, but knowing that if you have done everything you can, that experience has been valuable. If you have done an audition that you were proud of, you were one step closer to your dreams and your goals. For me, goals should always be craft, getting better, getting better, and better, and better, and learning from each of those experiences. I think it is tricky with the not taking it personally, but you've just got to see every opportunity as a win. Those auditions, whether you don't get a call back, but if you're proud of that audition, that's a win. If you get a call back, but that's a win, you've just met the producers, the casting agents, the director. I've said this last time. Every audition is an audition for the next one as well, whether you feel right for the role or not do your best, bring something that you love that inspires you, that you want to do. So then when you do hear the know, you walk away with it and go, "Well, at least I learned something. At least I'm taking something away from this situation." And all that's really easy to say, but I'll still get hurt, I'll still, because we care. If we stop caring, then I think that's when your work suffers if you don't put your heart and soul into it every time. So sometimes I'm better at not taking it personally, and sometimes it really hurts, and you still do take it personally. So this life is a roller coaster, and you'll have the good days and the bad days. But just what really helps me is focusing on doing a good job of the audition, the call back, because then if it's a no, you go, "Well, at least I left everything on the table." It was out of my hands. And a lot of the time, I think what really helps is understand, like what I was saying before, understanding the mechanisms of it all, knowing that casting is a puzzle. I might not get the role because the lead's got the same color, here is me, or eyes, or the lead is seven foot and I'm five eight, and that looks a bit weird on screen. Maybe I was the best actor for the role, but it just doesn't fit with the ensemble. So understanding that there are more than just, it's more to do than just talent. It's more to do than just the acting chops. It's a puzzle piece. So that always helps me going, walking away from it, going, "Well, there's a million factors that just, that little bits added up to me not getting that role." Totally. And thank you for sharing that you still have rejection, because even for people listening, your favorite actor would have had so much and probably still has rejection, or goes for something, and somebody else gets it. And even people, that's very, very, very celebrated actors, like Oscar-winning. I still think, unless you're Pedro Pascal right now, I think you're probably still auditioning and really fighting for it. I don't think anyone skips that day out. Absolutely. And I think you can also apply that to running your own race. Every actor, Killian Murphy, Pedro Pascal, anyone, they'll go, "Oh, well, I'm not Leonardo DiCaprio, am I? I'm not quite there yet." Your favorite actors, they've still got places to go and things they want to achieve. So I think, and knowing that they'll have good days and bad days as well, and that's okay. I think that's another huge piece of advice I can give to anyone. It's just always leading from kindness, whether it be to yourself or everyone around you. And you're talking about those relationships and those things that you create in the industry. You can always kind of feel when somebody's out there working for networking's sake. But if you are just authentically you, treating everybody with the same respect that you hope they treat you with, knowing that every job on set is just as important as the next one, no matter what it is, whether it be the director or catering. It's also important and treating everybody with the respect that they deserve. Kindness never let you down, ever, ever. It will never let you down. In any part, whether you're an actor or not. If you're a good person, people also as well like, say right, Dusty gets bored, becomes this massive feature. Tim Buck says, you're going to want to cast people that you love working with. Like, I imagine that's how it's going to go. Obviously, talent is key, but you're going to be working with them for, say, six months, six weeks, six months, have a long year of shooting for. And I just think, I always think that because I think my brain almost is a bit more like a producer's because I'm always like, oh, I wonder how that would go there. And I always think I'm going to cast people that I want to work with if I ever write my own thing. I'm just going to do it because I can trust them. I know they're not dingos, which is my word for dickhead. They're kind. They're good people. They work hard and they've got the chops. And I just think, kindness, I think, will never, ever, ever let you down. And then, like you said, it gives you the luxury of you just get to be yourself and be open. And that's the magic that's the essence of who you are. So, yeah, I always like to add in, like, be kind and then also be curious. Like, whenever I get nervous, especially around pods and stuff or acting auditions, my coach here in LA always says, if you've got a call back and you're nervous, because we all get nervous for callbacks, she said, just figure out your reader's eye color. And she said, it takes you out of your own body and mind. And she's like, and you just, it switches you into curiosity. And she's like, curiosity is way more fun for someone to watch than you being like, oh, fuck, if I fucked my lines, like, or do I look okay? Am I okay in this angle? She's like, just focus on the reader. And she'll say, she'll go text me after and tell me something you learn about the reader. So your focus is completely on you'll be like, reader had blue eyes and they've got a dog called Simon. And, you know, and you've just pulled away from yourself and you've just given all the, like, put it on the other person. Yeah. And then you can just be yourself. Yeah. Curiosity is key, I reckon. Curiosity is key. No, absolutely. And I think, yeah. And then there is no pressure, you know, if you can be, if you can authentically be yourself walking into a place, you know, you don't have to try, you don't have to pretend. And I guarantee, and we spoke about this last time, I think I started booking a lot more work when I stopped being a serious actor, you know, I could just be, you know, me, the farmer boy that's, you know, a little bit terrified to be here and still kind of get how I did it, you know. And people just, well, you know, they, they, it doesn't feel false. Yeah. You know, and what we were talking about before about you, you know, you're writing from your heart, or, you know, with Dusty, you wrote from my heart, we're not thinking about the destination. You know, if you're same with directing, if it's result driven, if it's, you know, if we're doing anything for the result, we're not thinking about the journey, we're not present for the journey. So I think, yeah, authenticity is such an important thing in this industry, because there's not a lot of it. And you know, a lot of, not a lot of, it's not people's fault sometimes, but they feel like they have to be something. Totally. Totally. Well, my friend, you are authentic, you are kind, you are brave, and you are all hard. So I, as always, I love cheering you on via Insta from the other side of the world. And I cannot wait to see what comes next for you. Please, as always, stay in touch with me, because I hope this is one of many pods that we get to do together. Yeah, I'll see you in four years. We'll do it again. Yeah. But I think you're wonderful. And to the listener, I'll have, I'm going to have the trailer. Well, tell me how I can get people to know about Dusty, because by the time this comes out, will they be able to teach me how I can share Dusty? Yeah, so I can send you the trailer, we've got a trailer going on. I can just, I can see the Instagram page, and that's kind of where we share all the info about screenings and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you. No, thank you, my friend. You are absolutely wonderful. And I really wish the best for you. Yeah, thank you. And you're wonderful too. And it's always a pleasure to be here. So thank you. That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always, thank you to our guests. And let's continue the conversation on Instagram. I'm at Yummo Voliberi. This potty, my word for podcast, is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love it if you could subscribe, write and comment. And of course, spread the love. (sighs)
