G'day. I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter and professional oversharer. This podcast is all about celebrating failure because I believe it's a chance for us to learn, grow and face our blind spots. Each week I'll interview a different guest about their highs as well as their lows, all in a betweenspire us to feellessly fail. Holy Mac, we have a ripper guest for you on the pod today. It is Aussie actor, Damon Herriman. He's unreal, so lovely, so kind, so humble, and might I say, an incredible body of work as an actor both here in America and in Australia. There are so many shows you would have seen him on Missed In Between, The Outful Dodger. He is on the new Bike Riders movie with Austin Butler and Tom Hardy. In fact, we held this episode so that it could time in with the movie. So if you're in Australia or America, the movie is officially out now. It's called the Bike Riders. Go and see it. We talk about the behind the scenes of it a lot in this chat. It's set in the 60s around a bike gang, like a bike riders gang. Yeah, I want to say bike riders gang. That's the right thing to say, isn't it? They actually had to ride legit bikes from this time. As a result, the throttle is different, the clutches are different, the brakes are different. You'll hear, Damon say, all the stuff we did our training on was different to how it was actually on set. Very lovely chat. I learnt so much from him. He was so giving of his time and such a sweetie. Damon, I cannot wait to see what is next for you. And thank you so much for just sharing your time so honestly. And you're so generous with your time as well. You're a wonderful friend. Thank you so much for jumping on the pod. And to you the listener, go out and see the bike riders. Damon's incredible. Good. Damon Herringman, I'm so pumped to have you here. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. I just told you before you hit record, I get so nerdy and I nerd out over not just the guest, but the process. And you have had such a wonderful career to deep dive. So when a friend of mine connected me to jump on the pod, I was living in my little apartment in Byron Bay. And we have a frame poster on the wall of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Really? And I was like, this has got to be a good sign, right? Right. And then when you said yes to this podcast, I looked out my apartment window here where I live in LA and they just changed the movie poster to the bike riders. Oh, how funny. So I feel like this all feels quite synergistic. So you've had such an incredible career both here in America and in Australia. But is it true you started like eight? I did. Yeah. Yeah. I was born in Adelaide in Australia, lived in Alice Springs for about five years. And while we were in Alice Springs, I did these radio commercials with my dad to screw someone he knew at the radio station. And my dad sort of got this idea based on those commercials and just the kind of play acting I used to do in front of the family pretending to be characters and things that maybe I could be an actor. And so he decided to take it upon himself to write a letter to the only film director he could think of, which was Peter Weir. And Peter Weir at the time was not as famous as he is now, but he was still famous for him. It was a sort of a pretty bold thing to do, but he wrote to him Peter Weir amazingly wrote back. I still have a letter and said, yeah, if you're going back to Adelaide, which we were, go and see this agent and I did. And she signed me and look, I don't think that was because I blew her socks off. I think I was one of, you know, one of the few eight year olds that was coming in to see it, you know, and it was, and I could, I could string two words together and she took me on and, yeah, did a bunch of ads and then, and then got into some TV after that. Is it true that you're not technically, not technically, but like you haven't done much traditional like drama training? Yeah, I don't really know if I've done any, that I can think of really. That's amazing. Yeah. But I mean, it's, you know, every, every time you do a job, it's, it's kind of. Totally. You know, there's no, there's no question that you pick up, you get better by working with good people and that's happened. You know, that's, that's, that's been like a, you know, a mixing bowl that's had like new ingredients added to it for years and years and years and stirred in. And, and I think you, you know, you take on all the bits that feel like they're good and, and discard the ones that don't and hopefully end up with a form of training that's just on the job training, really. Yeah, by doing, I feel, and I also feel like, and we were talking about drama school before this, like what you do in a drama class often isn't what you're going to be doing in a on a TV set or on a film set and like that preparation time can be different, especially in the moment as well. Like you're, you get to like leave it, which I feel like would be quite different to being, we're going to do script analysis on this one piece for the next six weeks. Yeah, no, totally. Yeah. I mean, who knows? Look, I never, I never went, I never audition for any of those schools. And it was never because I thought I didn't need to. It was really just because the main reason was I was sort of already acting at that point in my, I gave up for like five years over high school, but then I took it up again and, and I started sort of getting enough work that I, my reasoning was, well, I don't want to have three years where I can't get a job. And, and at the moment I'm working enough that, and doing jobs that I wouldn't want to miss out on, that, that I figured, well, I don't want to have three years where I can't do that. And so I just kind of kept going. I love, I love, I love. So we talk about, or you look at an actor's career, and you're like, okay, well, that could have been a break that you've had all these moments like was the big steal like a, did it feel like a big break for you. It definitely did. I mean, that was, so the big steal for people that don't know was a film released in 1990. - You would have been 19. - I was 19 when we shot it and, yeah, I guess I was 19 or 20 when it came out. Ben Mendelssohn was in it, Claudia Carvin was in it. It was, it was, it was, you know, it was a, it was a sort of a hit, but not like a big, it wasn't a big murals wedding kind of Priscilla type hit, but it was a semi hit. And it certainly had a lot of love in the following years as a kind of a VHS DVD rental. But that definitely felt like a break. I think partly, partly because I just had never done a feature film before. I'd done a bunch of TV. But also, you know, Ben Mendelssohn was sort of known from the year my voice broke. Claudia Carvin had done High Tide. I was excited to be working with these film actors, you know, and, and Malcolm had been such a big film for Nadia Tess and David Parker, and I couldn't believe I was going to work with them. So it definitely felt like a big break. I mean, ultimately, it didn't change a lot in my career. It's not like I suddenly became, I didn't suddenly have a film career, for example. I don't, I think it was years before I did another film. But, you know, looking back, that's one of the highlights for me. Oh, how could, because I, I feel like I've heard you say throughout, like that kind of like maybe around up to mid twenties, you had another job as well. Like that had nothing to do with like an insurance. Yeah, yeah. So from 18 to 27, I was basically the, I finished high school on a Friday from the Monday after I was working at the insurance company, my dad worked at. And then we moved to Sydney, dad transferred with his job at that insurance company and I kept working at that insurance company as well. And so in the same way that actors often will drive taxis or work behind the bar or wait tables, this was that job for me. It was my in between job, but it was, it was my, I was working there way more than I was acting, you know, I would, I would work there for months without an acting job. And then maybe I would do a play for three months or, you know, maybe I would do a guest role on a TV show or, you know, but I never, I didn't leave that job until I was 27. And that was only because I, it sort of, it was just, I think it was a week after I turned 27, I went, you know what, if I don't choose to leave this office job, I reckon I'm going to be 50 and still here going. This is my in between job when I'm not acting. But like, I sort of thought, I have to force myself to take this a bit more seriously, even if financially it'll be a bit harder. And that's what I did. It's so interesting not to get too hippy and woo woo woo on you, but that's your satin return. And so that's true. Yeah. Yeah. When you start, you know, those big life changes and life lessons kick in. So I was like, you were already in tune on like a spiritual esoteric level. Right. But I want to ask about House of Wax, because I feel like that was a turning point for you within America with American careers. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So in a similar way to the big steel, actually, that was, you know, probably the next thing that felt like it was a change and it ultimately was a huge change because it's what got me to come over here properly. I had done a trip over here a few years earlier, which was a naive attempt to get work in America, not knowing anything about anything and not having an age and not having any auditions and getting very depressed and leaving with my tail firmly between my ways. It's a tough city. It really is. And it was tough, even tougher then because there were just weren't the number of Aussies that had been here kind of traveling that road before us that allows you to then know what to expect. And there had been big Aussie movie stars, but I didn't know any of those people. They hadn't really been just the working actors that are here now and have been here in the last sort of 15, 20 years. But anyway, so yeah, House of Wax was a big change because it was an American. What I didn't realize when I came over that first time was you sort of, if you really want it to be, you know, to make things a lot easier, you either need an American credit, they know, or an Australian film or something that's broken through here. And those two things, you know, we can, there were a million examples of those things that have happened, you know, I didn't have either of those things on that first trip. But on the second trip, which was about 2004 or five, I had just done House of Wax, which was an American film shooting in Australia. Paris Hilton as well. Paris Hilton. And I played, you know, what became a reasonably long list of Southern rednecks from that point onwards, which was the kind of, which was the other thing that changed a lot because I was really only playing lots of nerds with glasses and nice guys and best friends in Australia. I never got to play those sort of people on the fringes, the bad guys, the dirtier characters. I just couldn't get an audition for those. And I got this audition, I got this role, and then I came over here, got an agent, and then it was, it really opened a door, which was, I mean, I am a little bit half-class, empty on this stuff. I never kind of think, I didn't sort of go, okay, great, I've got my American credit, I'm going to go take America by storm, I thought, there's no way I'm going to get cast in America, I barely get cast in Australia. But I also, I had this term, I needed to get some regret insurance, and what I mean by that is I didn't want to be in my rocking chair at 85 going, why didn't I take advantage of that opportunity, just to see if something was happening. And if I'd, if I'd done House of Wax and then stayed in Australia, I think I always would have been wondering, well, it's too late now, but why didn't I try something then when I had an American credit? And it did, it was worth doing, because I did get an agent, it was a very slow process to then start getting work and start getting decent jobs, but then when it happened, it sort of changed everything. It's funny that you met, well, first of all, I feel you on there, no regrets thing, that's my whole driving force, because Australia is awesome, and it's so easy Australia in comparison to here on many different levels. But like being here and just knowing that you're giving it a red hot crack, there's just, there are so many opportunities here. If you want to, if you have the, someone told me acting is a, here is a resilience game. Yeah, that's true. And it kind of feels like that, but I love that you brought up the Southern, because I was like, as I said, researching, I was like, hang on, there's a lot of Southern dialects here, like, Jewy. Yes. Justified. Was that, because that became like, weren't you casting the pilot? And that was kind of like you might just be in the pilot. Yes, yeah, so it was a character that was in the pilot, so yeah, I did a bunch of guest roles here and there, which I was blown away by just getting any job at all. I couldn't believe I was working in America, really. And then this audition came along for Justified, which was a character in a pilot. Yeah. And I did that, and it was super fun, and then the show got picked up. And then, yeah, the character just sort of ended up getting, they would call up every few months or years or whatever it was. I think I did 25 episodes or something over six years, but they would say, hey, we're thinking of putting Jewy back in it. Do you, do you available? I was always, I always made sure I was available. Why? I loved that role so much. And that, that, that was, if, you know, if the big steal and House of Wax were two kind of moments that changed things, I think Justified was the next one, because it was a cool enough show and a cool enough role, and I was in it enough to actually then open a few more doors, because it, it, it was something to hold on to and say, look, this is a thing he's done, you know. And that did, that, that did open some, some doors to things like doing the Clint Eastwood film, Jay Edgar or to doing a guest role in Breaking Bad. These are things that I think were helped by the fact that I'd already done Justified. And such a fun, like character as well. Amazing character. Like, I mean, so much fun, like, you know, whenever a new script would come, I would just be like, like rushing to the pages that Dewey was on to see what absurd situation he'd get into and what funny lines I got to say. Oh, so good. And they would, they really wrote it. The, the writers were so good, but it was that thing too of like, you know, the version of him in the pilot is a lot more of a bland, you know, he's not fully fully full, not really fully fleshed out either by the writers or by me at that point. And so, the character we don't really know much about. And then there's a nice back and forth that happens between the actor and the writer writers when something's ongoing, where they see what you're doing and then you're, you see what they're writing and you kind of work together to form something that really becomes this guy. And then I think by probably season three or something, you kind of have the character. Oh, I love this. And Piers, I want to apologize because my brain is like a pinball machine. And so you'll see me ask questions. You might be like, that's not in the same timeline. But I have to ask you about, because as soon as you said, yes, to this pod, I started watching Mr in between. Right. And I like, and, you know, it's a great show. But there's like montages on YouTube of the relationship of Freddie. You play Freddie, right? Freddie and Ray. Oh, really? To like romance music in the background is very, very sweet on YouTube. It was such a fun, but also like heartwarming at moment. Like it was a really incredible show to watch. Yeah. But the character once again, that you got to play like Freddie was like, you know, laid and complex, but also like there was a love and kind of like a bit messed up as well, but there was like a lovefulness. Do you know what? You've actually, I've never thought about this, but there's a weird similarity between Dewey and Freddie. Oh, yeah. That you've just made me realize, which is sort of like the hapless kind of friend, enemy, whatever, love hate relationship with the main guy, which is like Raylin and Dewey and justified and Ray and Freddie and Mr in between who was kind of a pathetic version of a bad guy. You know, they sort of want to be more of a bad guy, but they're a bit hapless. Yeah. Oh, I never really thought about that, because I wrote down here that you were a lovable baddie. Like as the audience will kind of like, I don't know what's going to, like, what's Freddie going to get up to this episode. You kind of like, as the audience will kind of like rooting for you, you know what I mean? Because like, nothing ever kind of went your way. No. Funny line where like, I think Ray says to Freddie, like, you've been miserable for 20 years, you got to change something. You know, because his character was always like having a winge about something essentially. Yeah. Yeah. But it looked like such a fun character. So much fun. Oh, I mean, very similar as well in the sense that, you know, excited to read any new script. Yeah. You know, that show was extraordinary, you know, because, you know, Scott Ryan, who plays Ray, not only brilliant in the role, but wrote every single episode. Nash Edgerton brilliantly directed every single episode, those two worthy ingredients that made that show so special. And I don't think any of us, when we started it, had any idea how good it was going to be. And yeah, that's that's a massive highlight for me. Totally. I have to ask because you've also played some really darker, like, is it the Nightingale? Yeah. Like heavier characters. Did they feel a little bit when you first see, like, you get sent to the sides and you're like, whoa, like, does that feel at all confronting that first moment when you see something that's quite, sits in a bit more darkness? Certainly was something like the Nightingale. Like, it doesn't really get much darker than that. Yeah. You know, people often bring up the Charles Manson thing. So how that must have been full on to play him. But the scenes weren't full on the scenes were dark. The scenes at the Nightingale are about as dark as they get. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's a, that's a full on thing. And, you know, it's sort of a testament to the casting crew of that film. There was so much sort of love on set around all these horrible scenes that we had to shoot that kind of made us get, you know, helped us get through that. But it wasn't. Yeah. That wasn't a fun film to shoot a lot of the time. It was grilling. I've heard people say when it's a heavier set, like the content is heavier. There's often lightness off, like when you're not filming and you're not rolling. 100%. Like balance it out. And, you know, like, Ashley and Fran Chosie and Sam Claflin, who are the leads in that. We, they are just the loveliest people and we have the most, so many laughs off set. You know. And, but yeah, you sort of had to. Yeah. Yeah. To like neutral. Yeah. Yeah. I obviously can't interview without asking about Charles Manson. I love the, there's so many moments I've heard you share about it. I love that you'd already been cast in mind, Hunter. And then the audition for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood came through and you're like, well, I'm already cast in mind as if they're going to want me to play the same character. So I'd get FedExed over to you, right? Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I forgot about that. That's right. They wouldn't even email them. That's right. Is that because it was leaked from hateful late or something? Yes. Yes. He was, I think Quentin Tarantino was very understandably guarded about his script getting out because hateful late had been leaked. So there was no digital version of the script and they were FedEx from the, the audition pages were FedEx from America. I was in Australia and I remember thinking, and the character wasn't even called Charles or Charlie or anything. He was called, I think it was called Shaggy Guy or something. Shaggy Guy appears on the, and you knew exactly who it was. And yeah, I remember thinking, look, there's no way I'm not going to put down an audition for Quentin Tarantino, but there's also no way I'm going to get this because I'm already playing him in mind, Hunter. And at that point, I think it was about five months into the, the, you know, very long makeup sort of sessions with, with the makeup artist Kazu who did an extraordinary job. Yeah. So there was, there was no, yeah, there was no question about it, but I thought, but it was, it was bizarre because I'd spent without question the most time I've ever researched any character was on watching and, and listening to and reading about Charles Manson for mind, Hunter. By the time I got the audition for Charles Manson in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, it was like, I was, couldn't have been more ready. And the only difference really was that he was, I think it was like 11 years younger in, in the movie. And, you know, he did sound a bit different. His voice was a little lighter. And he was also just, in general, more sort of like a playful. Yeah, just a kind of like little impish, like in prison, he's very dark and gruff and furious, you know, before he went to prison, he's got to have a lightness to him. So that was one little thing that I could inject into it. But other than that, it was like, it was sort of what I'd already been doing. It was extraordinary. And then I flew to America to shoot mind, Hunter. And the day after, the first day I got here was like a final make up fitting for mind, Hunter. The next day I found out I got Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, and I was just like, this is, this is too bizarre. I've been able to see the deleted scenes that you've done because you did like a lot more filming than what we actually see in the movie. Yeah, I mean, whatever the scene, it's the scenes in the movie and then the couple that you've seen. Yeah, there's one particular one, which is a lot more substantial than what's in the film, which is on the deleted scenes. Yeah. And also seeing that court jester kind of like playing with Brad Pitt's character as well, when he's on the roof and you're like, it must have been so much. And it's so interesting, the way in interviews you talk about the difference between the two is I'm a big mindhunter fan, like from the score to the way it's written to like, and also like, as one of my textbooks for one of the drama schools I went to, they made us read Mind Hunter to understand human behavior through a different lens. That it was so fascinating watching both of your, because to me they feel like you can feel like there's a lightness to that first one that youth and also like he was an aspiring rock, like he wanted to be a rock star, right? Absolutely. I mean, I feel a lot of people feel that had he had the success that he wanted, then those murders never would have happened because he, I think a big part of why he did that and chose that house is because Terry Melcher, the producer used to live there. And had promised him an audition that sort of never happened, I can't remember it happened and then he turned him down or whatever, but he didn't get a recording contact and he was kind of, he'd lost face amongst his group and he was embarrassed. And I think that was kind of a form of revenge. Oh, so there's a, I got sent a little meme about the cast that they had for the ranch, right? All the cast from that ranch was like Austin Butler, Sydney Sweeney, like all people, yeah, all people that have like popped since. Yeah, it's fascinating to, yeah, look, I just love the fact, like, I love the fact that you wanted to play both in it with two incredible directors that are kind of like always going to go down in the history books, like what a pinch yourself kind of moment. And I've heard you say, being on a Quentin set is like, it's almost like going back to just like people having fun and doing a little short together, kind of feels like that. Yeah, it didn't feel other than looking around and seeing, you know, Brad Pitt and Margot Robbie and whatever walking around and Quentin Tarantino, which were like, oh no, this is a big Hollywood movie, it didn't, it felt like time was of no issue. Everyone was very casual, everyone was very relaxed, and it did feel a bit like being on a, on a short film with Paco. Yeah, yeah, that's like pretty special. Oh, you know, I still can't believe I got to do it, you know, I, I would never in a million years have imagined when I first came over here, you know, I just thought, could I ever get a rock one episode of guest TV over here? That was like, is that even possible, you know, and then so all the other stuff, the other stuff has been kind of cream on top and that's just like the cherry on top of the cream. Yeah, so that's interesting. I have to ask you, because I think I told you before we started this, that I watched you speak to a room of actors, and you so beautifully describe, because I think a lot of Aussies come over here in one of two, from one of two ways. One is like, yeah, they've got that Aussie project or credit behind them that they know has got, like, the beautiful, like, chopper Eric Banner story, or, you know, like, there's something to do with it. Yeah, yeah, there's Russell Crowe, Rompa Stump, but this just goes on and on, yeah. But like, even for me, I've got a lot of mates that just come over on an ester, or like a tourist visa, and they're like, oh, I'm going to make it, and they're gone within six weeks, like just burnt through cash, lived a large life for six weeks, and then they're gone, and that doesn't happen again. And then you've got the people that kind of, like, lock in, give it a red hot crack for, like, years at a time, end up doing a lot of side hustle kind of jobs to survive, because that is a very expensive city. And then there's you that kind of does this half, half kind of, like, split, you kind of, like, do Australian time, do American time, and it sounds like you just follow the work, that's how it looks from the outside. Is that true? Certainly now, that's pretty much how it goes. At the start, it was just, oh, I better go and put in some time in America. Like, I would do, basically, initially, I just thought, well, I'm not going to move there to live because, A, I like my life in Australia, B, I work in Australia enough to not want to disappear from their minds, I guess, be out of the loop. So I would sort of choose these three months trips, and I tended to do, the first few years, I tended to do, like, two, three months trips a year. So I'd just sort of pick a three month period, like, I do, like, January, February, March, and then September, October, November, or something like that. And then sometimes work would happen outside those in either place, and that would govern what I did, but that tended to be what I did just to start. Yeah, I guess because I also didn't want to be, I did see those people who'd moved here and were starting to get a bit disheartened because it had been two years now, and nothing had happened, and they were just working at a bar, and they just sort of weren't really an actor anymore. They're just an Australian working at a bar in America, and I'm like, I don't want to do that. And I don't want to just bleed cash, whereas I could save cash back home and then go, even if I come here and spend three months, and spend it all, spend all my money, spend a chunk of money, and nothing happens, at least it's only been three months. And as it was getting to the end of the three months, I'd be like, oh, I'm excited, I'm going home soon. And then as it was approaching my next trip over here, I'd be like, I'm excited, I'm going back to LA soon. Nothing ever felt too overwhelming or depressing, and it's very easy for things to get overwhelming and depressing here. Yeah. So yeah, you're right, not many people do it that way. Maybe I was just sort of fortunate enough to be able to do it that way, but I think I'm glad I did. I'm really glad I did. And now it tends to be more around where the work is. Yeah. I like that. I like that mentality. Whenever I land here, we were talking about beautiful Anthony LaPali before this. He always goes, buckle in, Lula. Buckle in. He's like, that QF flight every night is there waiting for you if you need to go home. And he's like, and just don't. He's like, he's like, stuff it out. But that is also like, he came at 17, 100 bucks in his back pocket. You know, like, that was a very different time and. Yeah, well, he's one of the exceptions. He's, he's one of the people who didn't come with an Australian big movie or an American credit they knew. He just started and was awesome and they loved him and he's, you know, and that, and that does happen. Then again, he was 17. If he was 37, would have been a lot harder. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in, it's just so in. I'm so fascinated in everyone's journey. I loved when you did this chat to the acting school. Also, you talked about having heat on you. Right. Right. So just to clarify, not having heat on me, just heat on people in general. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever quite had a heat on it. You talked about how much heat there was. Yes. And how you're just smoking, smoking with heat. No, I think talking about you, the general you having a heat on, to have, to have heat on you as an actor here makes a massive difference. I don't know. I mean, that's never happened to me here, but I've had, you know, there are degrees of it. You know, like, you know, if, if, like, using one of those examples, like Tony Collette and Muriel's wedding would have had a huge amount of heat on her. The second that America discovered that film. You auditioned for that, didn't you? I did, actually. Yeah. Yeah. I auditioned for a role that a good man of mine, Matt Day, ended up getting, and, and he was brilliant. I mean, lots of, lots of things I've auditioned for that I didn't get over the years. But yeah, there was, there was something Beslam and I feel like as well. I auditioned for, yeah, auditioned for Gatsby. Yeah. I think Jason, the Royal Jason Clark also did brilliantly. I mean, it's, it's good when you audition for something and then see the person do it and go, "Oh, no, they, they were really good." They, they, they should have got that role. It, it sucks when you audition and watch and go. They, they, what's that, they could have made me. But so what I mean around the heat thing is, and the only reason why I'm asking, asking about it is because I've heard actors talk about, if you work hard enough, eventually you're probably going to get an opportunity. But then you have to choose to A, be ready for that opportunity and B, find the momentum off the back of it, which is the same idea about having like, say, for example, doing justified and then cut to what you would a premiere of hateful eight in Sydney and then Quentin was a fan of your, and you had no idea. Well, well, what, what, basically what happened, what, well, he's a fan of justified. He's a big fan of justified and I was at the premiere of hateful eight. Quentin Bazzali with Samuel Ojaxson sat in and watched the whole movie with the audience, which was so cool. Is that rare? Is that rare for them to say? Yeah, I feel like it is when they've seen it so many times, especially when it's the Sydney premiere. It's not the premiere, you know. Yeah. I thought that was really cool. Anyway, I knew that, well, I mean, Walton Goggins from justified, I'd worked with a lot on justified and he was in the hateful eight and I emailed him and said, "Hey, I'm going to go see your film tomorrow." And he said, "Say hi to Quentin from me. If you see him there, I wish I could be there." And I was like, "Well, that's not going to happen. I'm not going to run into Quentin." The movie ends, "I'm walking up the steps of the cinema and I look to my left and there's a giant man and it's Quentin Tarantino." I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm walking up the steps of Quentin Tarantino." And I thought, "Okay, well, Walton said to say hi. I better say hi." I was like, "Hey, congrats. The movie was awesome." He was like, "Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much." I was like, "By the way, Walton Goggins said to say hi. I'm a friend of his." And he went, "Oh, thank you. Thank you." And then I suddenly saw that he recognized me from justified. And he went, "Oh my God. Oh my God. You're Dewey Crow. I can't believe you're Dewey Crow." And then I was just like stunned that he knew the name of my character. He grabbed my hand and pulled me back down the cinema. Back to where Samuel Jackson was sitting and said, "Sam, Sam, Sam, look, look. It's Dewey Crow." Because Samuel Jackson apparently also loves justified. And so he's like, "Oh my God. Dewey Crow." I was like, "So weird." I'm like, "This is surreal." And then Samuel Jackson pulls out his camera. He's like, "We've got to get a photo for Walton." I'm like, "Yeah, yeah. We do got to get a photo for Walton. I'll be making sure I get that photo off Walt." And then yeah. And then the next day in my email, I get a photograph from Walton of me with Quentin Tarantino and Samuel Jackson. It was pretty funny. How good. How good. That's an incredible story. I have to ask about the bike riders because it's about to be released here in America as we record this. But by the time this comes out, it will be out in America and will have just been released in Australia. And first of all, it looks incredible. I've seen the trailer. I've said, "There's all this behind the scenes stuff and great interviews with Jeff have come out now." And so it's so much fun. There's some fun behind the scenes stuff of you in fight scenes, getting your makeup retouched and all this stuff slowly coming out on YouTube. So it's basically Midwest bike. It became a biker's gang, right? Yeah, it's based on a real biker gang. It was really like a biker club. Yeah. You know, it's sort of like when people got together because they appreciated motorbikes and riding together. It was before they had long hair and it was before that was sort of necessarily crime involved, which obviously doesn't happen in every biker club. But that's sort of kind of what biker clubs, some biker clubs became renowned for. So it kind of starts in the mid 60s. It's based on this book of photographs by a guy called Danny Lyon who went and spent, you know, a lot of months living with this biker gang and taking photographs of them. And then this book came out of these beautiful black and white photographs of the gang. Jeff Nichols, the writer, director found that book years ago and saw something in it that he thought would make a great movie. So he kind of took the actual characters that we see and read about in this photo book and wrote a script about them. And yeah, and it's a, you know, an incredible cast. Another sort of pinch me moment to be working with these people. So there's a beautiful moment in an interview he's done recently where he mentions you, which is so sweet. He says, I couldn't point the camera in any direction. And there was always somebody doing something interesting. And he brings your name up and he brings a few other actors up. And I was like, how sweet is that to hear? That's so nice to hear. Yeah, that's, that makes me feel very nice. Look, Jeff Nichols is the quintessential actors director. There is, you know, there is no one you would rather work with on a film set than him in terms of how he deals with the actors. He's just such a beautiful gentleman. So, so intelligent, so kind. And, you know, one of the really the last sort of filmmakers of that kind is almost like a filmmaker from the 70s, you know, making these smaller quality dramas, which is sort of not so much of a genre anymore in the way it used to be. He shoots on film too, doesn't he? He does shoot on film, which is, again, very, very rare these days. And, you know, I think that's why I think, you know, his reputation is why he's able to pull together casts like, you know, Austin Butler and Tom Hardy, and Cody Comer and Michael Shannon and Norman Reedus and all these incredible people. And then people like me get to get to somehow squeeze in there as well and just look around trying to pretend that you're part of the cool gang. It looks like in the trailer you're like Tom Hardy's right-hand man. Yeah, that's pretty much. That's great. How fun. I mean, to be around great, like, did you, because Jeff also talks about Tom. He said it's like there's something vibrating, like, a millimeter under his skin. Like, there's never nothing going on there, whether he's having a drag of a Ziggy or, you know, he said it's just there's always something to capture with him. Could you feel that? Oh, 100%. 100%. Yeah. He does have that thing, that X Factor, that screen presence thing that you can't quite put your finger on. Yeah. You do feel it. Like, you do feel it. You feel it around him as a person. And by the way, it was lovely to be around. Really friendly chatty guy. I walked on set every day and hugged everybody and talked about his family and I really, really liked him. But yeah, no, I mean, he just, he does have a certain electricity and then, you know, soon as the camera's rolling, you're looking at a face that is both doing nothing and doing everything all at once. You know, which I think is true of a lot of great actors and he's, he's certainly one of them. I have to ask, this is how nerdy I get when I do, like, research on people. Apparently all the bikes were literally from the 50s and 60s, but that meant they're quite a lot harder to ride, like from a brakes perspective and a throttle perspective. Was that, was it, did you have to learn how to ride this style of a bike? Yeah. Yeah. And mine, mine was particularly unusual because apparently back then they hadn't decided as an industry, which side the foot brake should go on versus the foot clutch. If I remember all the gears, I'm even ridden a bike for a while now, but something to do with the clutch, the brake, the gears, they hadn't kind of all come to a consensus on where they should be and which side they should be on. Modern bikes, they're all the same. And we were, we were learning on modern bikes. So I do remember them saying, look, just so you know, whatever your foot, your feet are doing, while you're learning, it's going to be the exact opposite when you get on the bike you're riding. And I was just like, oh, this is going to be a disaster. But it was, it was fine. I could say it was just like riding a bike. No, it was, it was, you know, there was a second there where you're like, okay, you know, it's like that thing of tapping your head. And what is that thing? Yeah, yeah, rub your tummy. You're like, okay, I really have to concentrate to make sure I can do this. But yeah, and, and you know, we'll have to get my bike, my boat about motorbike license for the film, which is kind of cool. So my license now has a motorbike permission thing on it. I haven't ridden a bike since then. And yeah, I probably want to go into an isolated car park before I do that again, because it's been a while now. But it was a lot of fun. So how exciting. I imagine like a bike movie set in the 60s, like everyone in Hollywood that's a guy is going to be like knocking on the door to be cast in a movie like this. Like it already screams like, yes, like, amazing to be working with this team. So like, this is a cool kind of movie like this is a kind of like sons of anarchy was massive. Like, I feel like this is what was the process like auditioning and like, did you get a call or I have to totally give a shout out to Joel Edgerton. Well, amazing Australian actor and friend who had worked with Jeff Nichols a couple of times. And I think in audition had come through for a role in this through my American agent. And because Joel had worked with him. I mentioned that today, you know, this is what actors do. Hey, I'm about to audition for your buddy. Feel free to, you know, put in a word. And Joel's done that for me a couple of times. He did that with Barry Jenkins on the Underground Railroad as well. And in both times, Joel put in a word. I ended up getting the role. So I'm incredibly thankful to him because, yeah, I mean, you know, it just sort of, it does count for something to have somebody that, you know, these directors get thousands of people in front of them. And I think somehow differentiate between them. And I imagine it's quite overwhelming at some point where you're trying to decide, even if you narrow it down to a hundred, how do you, so having the point of difference of having someone say, hey, I know this person, and I can vouch for this person. Really, really makes a difference. And I have, I have no idea if I ever would have got either of those roles if Joel hadn't made that call. So I'm super appreciative to him for that. But yeah, yeah, he is a legend. So I have to ask, I've heard you say you don't mark up your script that much. Is that true? Not at all, really. Not at all. Not at all, unless the only time I would mark it up would be if we do a rehearsal and there are notes to take on, but based on based on what happened in that rehearsal. So I remember them when we shoot it, that this is what we talked about on that line or this is where I'm moving, but I don't. Yeah, because I think I, and of course, you know what, yeah, I work with actors who've gone through acting school and they nearly all have scripts that are covered in ink because I guess you learn to. But if you don't learn to do that, I wouldn't know what to write, you know, no, my scripts are completely blank. I mean, it's, it makes sense in a way why it kind of works for you because there's a sense like as awesome as training can be like it. As someone that's been in it for a while, like they, you get taught to like hold on so tight to the work and the training and then as a result, you lose freedom sometimes and you lose presence and you lose just like honoring the writing and being in the moment with another person. And so I can see how it's been such a gift for you to be like, well, I'm just going to go in like obviously line ready, but like also just like open to the scene and connecting with your scene partner. Yeah, I guess, I guess that's, if you haven't study acting, I guess, I guess it ultimately becomes an instinctual thing. And so, you know, a lot of the things that I'm sure people write down on their script are things I've thought about anyway. But I, I, yeah, I'm thinking about them as I'm going through the script in my head or going through it on the page rather than putting it. Isn't Anthony Hopkins, that's just like read, read, like go over the script a certain amount of times and then it's with you. That's right. I think he, yeah, doesn't he read the script an insane amount of times? Yeah, as opposed to there's a beat here, I'm going to do this action on this line at this time, right? It's just like be, but be so, yeah, I think his thing is be so familiar with it that you can do absolutely anything. It's, you're so free. Which, it feels like that feels like more, you're more that school than say, Daniel Day Lewis, one might say. Well, I don't know what's Daniel Day Lewis is meant. I mean, I know he gets into character, right? Yeah, he stays in character. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, I feel like you, like the beauty of you playing like a Charles Manson and having the technique that you will call it the Damon technique means that you can, no, but it means that if you go home and not be like, I'm in the mindset of a cop leader serial killer right now. Definitely, yeah, I definitely don't have that thing of taking characters home, which I think would be, you know, potentially awful depending on who you were playing. Yeah, I tend to feel, you know, certainly if things are going well, I feel like I am in the character to a degree between action and cut, but after that, I'm just back to me. And same with dialect, like a lot of Australians will stay like they'll rock up on it. They'll wake up at like five. I've heard actors be like, okay, I wake up at five a.m. I go to the gym, I stay in dialect. If I'm doing, you know, I'm an American show. I'm in dialect all day long. I don't break when we're at crafty, you know, like, and I've heard you saying, yeah, and I've heard you be like, well, no, when they call action, I'm on dialect when they call cut I'm back to my, but that's also a beautiful attribute to you. And my dialect coach in Australia is like, that's where you want to be. He's like, you want to be able to like, flick into it and then let it go. Right. Yeah. Look, I think it's one of those, whatever works for you things. I think I would, I think it's partly because I'd feel a bit weird just staying in an accent between, because between takes, I am me. And I guess I would feel weird, but that's not to say, if for some reason, I felt that was the only way I could keep an accent. I guess I would do it, but I've never felt like I had to stay in it in order. To, to keep it. You know what I mean? You have so much fun with Southern dialects, by the way, like, every, I'm like, yeah, it's something again. Yeah, I've done quite a few of those and they are a lot of fun. I just had to do a Boston one, actually, which was a new one that I'd never done. Boston's hard. I feel like it's trickier. It is tricky. And it's also got that weird thing where there are some sounds that are almost Australian. Yeah, kind of that, you know, park your car and hard of a yard kind of thing, where they, the AR is almost the same as Australian. Do you do, did you work with a dialect coach or did you all? Yes, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, pretty much always, unless it's something just like, I don't know, this mini series I did back home called The Artful Dodger recently. Oh, yeah. You were awesome in that. I love watching that. You know, that was just like, well, he's British, but he's been living in Australia for years and we don't really even know what the accent was in Australia in 1850. So that I didn't have a dialect coach because it was just sort of, you know, that didn't feel British is easy for Aziz too. Yeah, and it wasn't like a strict British anyway. And if I'm playing an American, I don't have a dialect coach, you know, unless it's a new accent that I haven't done like Boston. I wouldn't try and do a Boston on my own because it's too new and too different and there are too many sounds that I'm not familiar with. Yeah, oh, so interesting. Okay, so actors do listen to this, like young aspiring actors, a lot of Aziz do. For an Aussie that might be, you know, big stars in their eyes and really want to make it here in America. Obviously, we've talked about like how everybody has a different directory and I think it seems like one shoe doesn't fit all. But is it a resilience game or is it like come over with the right reps, come over with the right credits? Again, it sounds like it could be any or a bit of each. Yeah, there's definitely no one size fits all, unfortunately. And I think at the top of the list is again, unfortunately, timing and luck. You know, I think that there's no recipe for how to do this. Look, if you, there are some things that are close to a certainty. And that is, if you are a good looking 20 year old who just played the lead brilliantly in an Australian film that was a hit at Sundance, yeah, you're going to be fine here. You're going to get several agents and managers want to sign you and you're probably going to get an instant career. But that's a very specific set of circumstances that you can't plan. You can't even plan to have got that Australian film. You have to have had that happen for you too. So again, you know, so, so yeah, it's that there is an element of resilience. I guess, well, looking at my own situation, I, you know, when I came, I came over for two, three month trips where absolutely nothing happened after House of Wax. And I gave myself one more trip. Lucky three. Yeah. But, you know, there's just as much chance that it would have also not happened. It hadn't happened twice. So it could have easily not happened again. And I wasn't coming back. So, you know, there's an argument there for sticking it out because you just don't know what's around the corner. At the same time, I also am a realist and I would say, yeah, but I wouldn't have stuck it out for 10 trips with nothing happening because I would be like, okay, take the hint. Like, they do not like you. You're not going to work here. I think, yeah, having a healthy sense of, you know, drive, but also a healthy sense of being realistic, you know, you don't want to come here. You don't want to come here and get broke and depressed. Yeah. You know, at the same time, if you come here and spend two weeks here and go, oh, nothing happened. Stuff that I'm never coming back. That's probably underselling yourself a little bit. I think, you know, I was pretty, I came here with just enough self-doubt. Like, I was sort of one of those actors who oscillates between thinking I can do anything and thinking I can't do anything. And, which I'm sure is familiar to a lot of actors. And I think, you know, but most of the time, I'm sort of somewhere in the middle of those two things. And I think that gives you the ability to go, okay, I know I can do this job enough because I've done it enough so far and been hired enough times that I can't be truly awful. I can't be as awful as I think I am sometimes. So I guess it's worth sticking out to a degree and seeing what happens. But also, yeah, not driving yourself into the ground and thinking, come on, come on, I'm, you know, why isn't anyone hiring me. I was realistic when I came here after House of Wax, partly because I was 35 years old. I didn't look like Chris Hemsworth. I didn't have, I had, you know, an American credit, but I didn't have a huge credit behind me. So I knew that there was a small door had opened, I guess a small crack in the door had opened, but it wasn't wide open and I didn't ever expect it was. I thought it could have easily just slammed shut. And I would have been fine with that too, you know, everything that happened to me over here was a surprise. You know, it never felt like, okay, yeah, this is what I'm due and this is what I expect would happen for me. It was always like, sorry, what? Like, I really couldn't believe it. And I'm glad that I just think from a psychological perspective that that was helpful because everything good that happened was a pleasant surprise. Everything that didn't happen was, yeah, I didn't think it would anyway, you know, so I think that helped. Yeah, it's so funny. I've been in acting schools where they say, this is your Olympics, nothing else matters. And because, like, I'm a bit more, I've got a bit real businessy kind of brain, I'm like, no, I think it's great to chase this dream. But I'm all for like having things that are going to facilitate and fuel that dream so that you've got like enough time to like sit in it long enough that you can give yourself chances for those lucky breaks. That's kind of my theory on it. But I love that you say, like, take the plunge, but also be realistic. Like, it's, it's one thing to kind of like give it a crack and then run home and go, oh no, that was my one and you know, like, but it's another thing to be like, okay, well, it sounds like you're a good combo is what I'm trying to say of like, let's chase this dream. I'm going to give it a red hot crack, I'm going to give it a shake. But also, if it doesn't work out, I'm going to be okay, knowing I gave it a, I stuck at it long enough to give it that red hot. That's right. As I said earlier, I didn't want to be in later life going, did I, I don't think I tried, I don't think I gave that enough of a crack. And by that third trip where nothing had happened and I didn't expect it was going to happen, I felt like, no, you made three, three month trips there, you didn't even get a call back. That's enough proof that nothing was going to happen. That's not to say that you weren't good enough, it might be, you weren't good enough for it, just, just like, there's luck didn't go your way that day. But like, you know, at least you gave it a shot and yeah, I think that, you know, just having a healthy sense of what is, how, you know, what are you capable of? Are you genuinely, do you have the goods to actually work there for a start? That's one thing. But then, that doesn't just be aware that that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to work there. You know, it is a lottery to some degree. There, you know, there are, you know, I often have this thought that, you know, the best actor in the world is probably working behind the bar in some distant pub in Ireland and we're never going to know about them. Like, they were just, were never good because they, you know, they just didn't do the things and have the things fall into place that were required for anyone to take notice. You know, being a good actor is only halfway there. Having people care and take notice that you are a good actor is the hard part. Yeah, well, I always say to people, there's a whole business side to it as well. It's not just the art and it's like having the right agent. And if you've got like a show coming out, is there publicity link to that? Like, there is like a business side to it as well that a lot of people are like, you know, I just want to honor the craft and the art, which is awesome. But I always think you almost need in, if you are going to go to action. I'm like, someone needs to teach the business of it because there is a, like, business side, especially over here because you've got managers, agents, lawyers, or taking little cuts as well, like three different to back in Australia. Like, it feels like a whole different skill set to understand yourself as well. Like, I find it faster. I don't know. I could talk about this. I could nerd out over this stuff all day long. I have to, you've met, you've already kind of like touched on this, but like, say you do go for something like I know the murals wedding and the basil and Gatsby moments. How do you handle that rejection when you're like, I did want that one. I think it depends on how emotionally invested you are and how much you really want something. I remember, I think still to this day, the most pain I felt from not getting a role was in an Australian series called The Henderson Kids 2. When I was a kid, I was a big fan of The Henderson Kids, a huge crush on Nadine Garner, and I got an audition for The Henderson Kids 2. I think I was 15 or something, and I wanted it so bad. And I remember when I got the call that I didn't get it. I actually cried. I don't think I've ever cried not getting a role before, but I was so devastated. And look, there have been a few of those over the years. I think the murals wedding one I would have been pretty upset about. The Gatsby one I was pretty down about because I think that had got down to only a handful of people. Thankfully, I think the older you get, the less it hurts. But other than that, I don't think there's a way to cope with it. It is a bad news. It's like getting a call. Especially if you really felt like you were close. Sometimes that's why it's best not to get too close to something. A lot of actors, I think, feel this way, which is I'd rather have not even had a shot than hear it was between me and someone else. Even though, obviously, it's way better to be down to the final two. That's a really cool thing, but it feels so much worse. Because then you beat yourself up with what could I have done differently? What could have been the little thing that got me over the line? Yeah, so full on. That saying that bronze medalists are happier than silver medalists. Totally. Yes, it's exactly that. You have been such a joy to interview. I cannot wait to see the bike riders. I think it's going to be amazing. I can't wait to see what's next for you. I hope that Boston tape went really well. I know actors can't talk about the next projects, but thank you so much. You're wonderful. Thanks a lot. I've had a ball. It's been really, really fun. Thank you, my friend. That's a wrap on another episode of Feellessly Failing. As always, thank you to our guests. And let's continue the conversation on Instagram. I'm at Gumbo Lullaberry. This potty, my word for podcast, is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love it if you could subscribe, rate and comment. And of course, spread the love. (upbeat music) (logo chimes) [BLANK_AUDIO]
