Motivation is overrated. Motivation is something that is, I believe, wrongly used and is wrapped with a lot of myths. Work is a self-expression with children. It's the fastest dopamine. That's why very often it's hard to close the computer. What is addictive? What is the rule of a leader? The most detrimental myth of all is that the role of the leader is to make people happy. Challenge people to dream, give them space to act, let them make mistakes, help them learn through that. The other thing is what we started with. Fire based on will, not based on skill. I have mostly come across a lot of people who are willing to dream, but they don't act, right? Yeah, well, because the sense of urgency is missing. If we stick too much with the scenario of how we wanted, for example, I wanted with Eckhart Tolleur or nobody else. I wanted with Ultra and nothing else. You are piling up unnecessary stress and doubts that would actually prohibit you from taking action. So sense of urgency is important, but also connecting it with my authentic rule of course. What significance would you place on action? One of the biggest myths of all, I need to be motivated in order to act. Well, action is the third doorway to motivation. When I act, I get motivated. It's a personal responsibility. Motivation, happiness, inspiration is personal business, value, skill. But we cannot reach values through doing things. Do not reach peace by meditating, doing the yoga, doing your regular practice. The interesting thing about coaching is that you have to trouble the comfortable and comfort the troubled. With the coaching fraternity increasing every passing day, there would not have been a better guest for this episode. Hello and welcome back to the X-Mung's Drive. This is your host, Gaurav and today we have a special guest talking about coaching. Nadesha, joining us all the way from Bulgaria. Nadesha is a personal growth coach contributing in the areas of holistic living, inner alignment, integrity and fulfillment. So let's learn from her what it means to operate with values. What it means to be an effective leader and what are some misconceptions around leadership and motivation. Let's dive into this journey of reflection and expression. Hey Nadesha, such a pleasure having you here. Thank you so much for being our guest on the podcast, the X-Mung's Drive. Thank you, Gaurav. I really appreciate what you are creating for our community. With all the thought-provoking conversations and real privilege for me to be here with you today. Pleasure is all my invitation. I have had the honor of working with you, collaborating with you, co-facilitating programs, workshop retreats. So it has always been a joy to learn from you, learn with you and travel with you. Pleasure is all mine indeed, and it's been a journey, wisdom towards something great. Let's see what we'll recreate today. I'm sure, I'm sure. Nadesha, while I was thinking the subject that I should be talking to you about, and without blinking my eyes, one thing that popped up is the energy that you bring in. I've always found you so motivated, I've always found you being a go-getter, always being a pro when it comes to learning. Always inspired to create something for the coaching community and such a giver you are. And I think that our motivation and energy would be of immense benefit to our audience. I'll help you understand, how do you define motivation? I mean, what drives you Nadesha? Gora, first of all, thank you every time you present me in front of any audience. I always have this urge to look around and check if he's talking about me. In my perception, in my perception, I'm somebody who is definitely curious and interested to learn and to comprehend the mysteries of life, like time, like love, like God. But who also likes to live a very simple life in everything. In doing work, in relationships, in spending time by myself. So, how do I define motivation? I don't know if I have a very wise definition, but when you ask me this question, I'm having this sense of irritation because motivation is overrated and motivation is something that is, I believe, wrongly used and is wrapped with a lot of myths. When you talk about inspiration and energy, this is what I totally kind of align with and really enjoy living from that space, everything I do. But when you use the word motivation, it kind of hits me as if I have to protect myself from something. And you use the beautiful term that there are so many myths around motivation, it's overrated. Why did you use the term myth with motivation? I mean, what are the myths around motivation that you have been able to capture in your journal and look at them through your curious eyes when you say the mysteries of life? The myths when hiring is higher skill, not will. So, people to thrive, organizations to thrive. It's faster if you find somebody who been there than that, right? But I believe that organizations that thrive, teams that thrive, groups, families that thrive are actually families, groups, teams, organizations who back on will. Will as in willingness to be there, inspiration to do something about this environment, about this goal, about this vision. The most detrimental myth of all is that the role of the leader is to make people happy. And the leader should work to motivate people to work. And then think about this, when people expect to be motivated, they become consumers. They become, they are giving the key of their happiness in somebody else's hands. Work is a self-expression, we choose it. Work is a self-expression. Work is a self-expression and it's the fastest dopamine. That's why very often it's hard to close the computer. Work is addictive. And then sometimes we use it as an excuse for not paying attention to other important things in my world. But motivation does not equal happiness. Myth number two, and I'm sure you will testify this, people who are motivated, give them. And it hurts. They take things personally, they don't sleep, they don't keep, they do everything that depends on them for their goal, for their vision to happen. Isn't that so? Yeah, yeah. I can so much relate to that. One is, as you said, the role of the leader is to make people happy at work. That's one. The second one is motivation equals happiness. That's not true. How did I learn? Actually, it's an interesting story. You know this famous thing. Find a job you love and you won't work today. Yeah. You said that. Oprah said that once. One day I received a post in my feed that said, find the work that you love and you won't work a day crossed with red thick lines. Yeah. And written, and you work like hell and you take everything personally. That's what I call. That's true. That's true. Okay. So, you know, you said that one of the myths around motivation is that the role of the leader is to make people happy. You know, let's, let's double click on this itself. Then what is the role of a leader? You have been working with people not only in your country, Bulgaria, but you've been working across the world. What according to you is the key responsibility of a leader? Hmm. Challenge people to dream. Hmm. Give them space to act. Okay. Let them make mistakes. Help them learn through that. And the other thing is what we started with. Higher based on will not based on skill. Find the people with the spark in their eyes from the start. And this I've learned from my first boss. When I was interviewed, I have zero experience. But I applied for the job of my dreams at that time. And when they, it was in the realm of recruitment. And when he asked me, and how are you going to attract people? I, I started making up things. I started talking about hanging flyers in the public transport and stuff like that that didn't exist back then. Maybe now, 20 years later, it's a standard, but not, not, not back then. And I thought it's when I reflected on what I shared with him during the interview. I thought it's complete nonsense. He would never give me the job. But actually it didn't take long actually to just. The entire conversation and 15 minutes later to receive the call and to tell me I'm joining us. Yeah. And I, I, I don't appreciate him for hiring me for the best, not for the knowledge. Hmm. You know, you said something so beautiful. Oh, that is tough. Challenge people to dream, give them space to act, let them make mistakes and learn from them. I have personally come across a lot of people who are willing to dream, but they don't act. Right. They have, they would talk about what they really want in their life. They would talk about the car that they would like to drive, the mansion that they would like to buy. The kind of profiles that they would like to handle, the kind of conversation that they would like to have. I mean, you can make people talk about ours. Yeah. And when it comes to executing it, when it comes to burning the midlife, midnight oil. Hmm. Hmm. They will let it out. They would let themselves down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there are four, I would call them. Pests. If you are ready for your dream. Okay. What are those? The first one is started with this. Do you see the dream as a movie as a moving picture? Hmm. Sometimes some people actually can dream and this is. A sign of stress. It's something to be mindful of. Hmm. Do you have a moving picture? So imagine this car of when you close your eyes. And you think about an area in your life could be business, could be family, could be friends, could be anything. What do you get? You have glimpses like photos. Or do you immediately start seeing the moving picture? See glimpses for sure. I see hosting a talk show on the lines of Oprah. Sharing stage with individuals like Eckhart Tolle. Going for retreats, settling down, slowing down. I see peace on my face, stillness on my face. Where I could be needs to be with, where I could be a comfort to be around. And these are the glimpses that I can see. And this is an emerging dream. Someone with a compelling dream. The minute they close becomes a full movie. Now, we are not talking about the three words and the dramas, right? Because some people when they close their eyes, that's what they get. But that's when fear interferes in the wrong way and in the wrong moment. So one thing for those of us who just have glimpses, one thing is keep on dreaming. Keep on being with this, but also don't stick to it. Okay. Yep. And then the other thing that I think relates to what you said earlier. I have a dream, but I do nothing about it. Yeah, there are people like that. Yeah. Well, because the sense of urgency is missing. You know, what does it take for an individual to convert those glimpses of pictures in the dream to make the full fledged movie into that? And you said, don't stick to that. What does that mean? Well, this means that if we stick too much with the scenario of how we wanted, for example, I wanted with Eckhart Tolleur or nobody else. I wanted with Oprah and nothing else. Yes. You are piling up unnecessary stress and doubts that would actually prohibit you. From taking actions. And the question here is, and that's the second doorway. To motivation. The second doorway to motivation is. What's behind that dream of mine. What's driving that dream? Yes, that really nourishes. If we use coaching jargon, we'll call this values. Right. But that's this inner inner sense of truth of what's truly important to me. And why do I really want this? Yeah. Yeah. So sense of urgency is important, but also connecting it with my authentic. Who or self. I think that's very important. There's very often I have come across individuals for that matter, if you ask me, God, why do you want so and so why do you want to lead a talk show on the lines of Oprah? Probably I might not have an answer to that. Or just ask you a different question. I would actually go with what you are already seeing. And I would invite you to actually imagine it's happening. And then I will ask you, and now step into this experiencing experience it fully. And tell me what does that give to your soul. And when you're saying experience it fully, what does that mean? Just imagine it's happening. It's happening right now. Yeah, imagine Gaurav is actually leading a talk show with Oprah Winfrey next to a kartole. Isn't that so amazing. Sure. It might be ego that gets fed to begin with. Yeah. But our ego is actually part of who we are. And when we address it with expectance with care, with love and asking and then when you are sad, when you are nurtured through that experience, what is this giving you that's even more important to you. Yeah. Now, when you work with leaders in the corporate world, right, when you use these terms, like accept them with love and care, nurture them, nourish them. How do they land for them? Yeah, I understand where you're getting and maybe my language is a little bit more feminine, a little bit more emotional. But actually, I have a very grounded, grounded question. And the question is, what does that give you that's important to you? What does that give you that's important to you? And together, why do you care? Why do you care? One of the terms that I've heard from people is that, no, I don't have time. I don't have money. I'm too busy with my children. I'm too busy with my aging parent and people can tell you 10 reasons why it's practically impossible for them to go for what they at least say they care for. If you ask me, do you care for your body? I'll tell you, yes, but do I do anything regularly to take care of my body? My answer is no. Do you genuinely care for your family? I would say yes. Do I do anything regularly to take care of my family? My answer is no. Similarly, you can ask me questions around my friends, my desire to go deeper into my practices. My answer would be yes, but am I doing anything? My answer is no. And I can tell you 10 reasons why I've not been able to do that. In those cases, where would you place motivation and how to tap into that? I mean, am I making sense in my question? Absolutely. And immediately I'll tell you something from experience. You do care for your body. You do care for your child. You do care for your family. You do care for your business. You do care for your parents. You do not put the strife and effort that either you or somebody else put as expectations on you. Very often when I coach people on motivation and I typically do this in group setting format. When I ask them what you need more motivation for, they start with sports. And this is something like global hypnosis. That we need to go to fitness in order to take care of our bodies. We need to meditate in order to be present. We need to do yoga and so on so forth. In our global cliche. When and it shows two things. There are other things that are more important to me now in that stage of my life. Got it. And the second is, yes, I'm using time money, children, parents, these are the global excuses. Or not doing something, but let's turn them into global priorities. I love the term global excuses. Because they're universal, I guess. I mean, everyone use it. Most of us. Yeah, but I want to, I want to do a little bit more on the exact public sports. Everybody has time for sports. And this is something I've learned from one of my coaching clients. And she said, you know what, I do have the habit of brushing my teeth. Two to three times per day. And the way I'm doing it, I'm doing it with the squats. And this is my six to 10 minutes. A squat per day. And I've started practicing this with wandering. I do have a machine that dries them. But in solid days, I also hang them outside. And how do I do them? I'm using it with a squat, not with the band. Am I doing my self care? Yes. Am I combining it with something that's important? Yes. Let's be creative. Let's start, start figuring out ways of achieving what's important behind. Let me ask you again. Why do you want to have more sports? And equalize this to care for myself and my body. Why? In order to be. In order to be healthy, in order to be fitter, in order to be more active, in order to be to have experience and have more vitality in my life. Vitality, right? And you don't need to waste time going to the gym in order to get that. Actually, when you step into the true reason of why you want this, I want vitality. I want to be to feel lively. I want to be fit. But of course, your brain immediately will start figuring out ways to do this while you are contributing. You know, we both know about the power and and not either or. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a global pandemic of either or. No, it's always an end. So you said it's a very important. So one of the one of the roles and the responsibilities of a leader is to challenge their team members to dream. And then you spoke about understand the why behind that. So when you said the values or why bother or why do you care. And then you also said, give them space to act. Tell me more about that. What do you mean by give them space to act and then let them learn and let them reflect. Before that, would you allow me to spend a little bit more time on them on the values. But love to. Yeah. And all of us we've watched the famous. That's talk of Simon scenic. Yeah, when he talks about its biology. It's not even psychology. The human body is very responsive. And what we lent into it. That's what it we creates. That's why I'm opposing so much. It's self blaming kind of attitude. I'm not doing this. I'm not doing that. Of course you are. You are taking care of yourself. Maybe not in the global perspective and I want to demonstrate something. Together with you about how responsive bodies to everything we plant into it. Remember a time and don't talk about it, but just remember a time when you felt stressed. And just show me where is your body reacting. Remember time yourself stress. Yeah. Where is your body reacting. So go off. Let me ask you now. Shake it off. You are not stressed. Yeah. But how, how much time it took me to put your body into a reaction. Well, it's part of a moment because I could get into that state at a spot of a moment and welcome that stress in my body. Would that be true if I assume that it was a sensation of shrinking kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yes. Yeah. That's that's how quickly and how responsive our body is to what we plant into it with words. Yeah. And, and now remember a time when you really felt vitality. You felt a lie. Yeah. Your words, right. And show me with your hand where did your body. I can experience that expansion around my chest. Yeah. Yeah. How long did it take me to put your body into that state. Let's take a second. Yeah. What we choose to tell ourselves and to tell to other people's actually determines the biochemical reaction, either a fight free or expansion, openness, rust, relaxation. So that's why values are so important through story. They just one day my daughter I was having a heavy headache. I think I've told this story many time but I want to share it again. Very terrible headache after a very heavy work day. And all I wanted was to go to bed and sleep. My daughter came and she wanted to show me a video. And I backed her not now please but she insists that I said okay okay. And we started watching it was a video about friendship that then grew into love and. And we started discussing difference between friendship and love and love and friendship and all this value words in in action. And 15 minutes in the conversation I passed. I turned to her and I said, honey, do you know what happened? She said, no ma'am, what? I said, I don't have a headache anymore. Values heal. That's the power of words. Values heal you said. Values heal. Wow. Wow. But we cannot reach values through doing things. You will not reach peace by meditating doing the yoga doing your regular practice. You will do your regular practice. When you approach it from the sense of vitality, it's fun. When you declare this is who I am, this is how I do things. It starts pushing you towards this kind of actions and bringing you more of that sense. And I cannot prove you that only when you do it in this sense in this order. You know, I think that's where the integration happens. And as I'm just listening to you, now this time also reflecting that how I times I would have severe headache. And the moment when I would play with my daughter need, the headache would just vanish. At times there are occasions when I would have headache, I would take medicine and it would not go away. And I'm just trying to see because you said that there is a biochemical reaction that happens within our body. Now the question is, what do I notice myself saying that I am what? That's a question. And as you are saying that I am vitality, I am energy, I am active. When you're operating from that space, something magical happens indeed. What do we plant that's replanted and sprouts? Yeah. So what do we choose? I'm not saying that you won't take the meditation if it's prescribed. I'm not saying I won't listen to the signal of the pain. What is this coming to warn me? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying don't go check your eyes. What I'm saying is that it really matters. Do I know what matters to me? Yeah. And how do I talk to myself? And do I start with what I value and the way of being leaders? If I want to be an impactful leader, if I want to be a trusting leader, do I step into trust first? Are you making to be proven that they can be trusted? Yeah. Where would you place the significance on the action part? Because, you know, as much as you might say that I am love, I'm care, I am integrity, I'm honesty, I'm impact for my leaders. And yet you don't do anything. Results won't happen. Right. You get results based on the actions that you take. And let's accept in the corporate world where we live in people are evaluated based on their performance. People are evaluated based on the behavior that they demonstrate in their day to day conversations in the way they interact with each other. So what significance would you place on action? Well, action is the third doorway to motivation. Like we talked about dreams, knowing what you want, seeing the vision. We talked about values, knowing who you are, watching in your core that makes you who you are, and acting is the third one. And this is, you need to act on that. And this, as we started with the myths, this is one of the biggest myths of all, I need to be motivated in order to act. This is the biggest BS. No, when I act, I get motivated, Zig Ziglar says, motivation doesn't last, just like Beijing. That's why it's recommended, that's a nice one. And it's a personal responsibility. Motivation, happiness, inspiration is personal business. I love it when you say it's a personal responsibility. I can't rely on others to motivate me. Otherwise, I would start to hunger. True, right? You and I, we know when you are the one who drives a business, maybe you can rely on higher powers, but that's a different conversation. But then there is another big mistake that people make. We make, we are trying to swallow an elephant. In our to do list, we put projects. Right, it's very basic, but the question is, what is the smallest steps I could take to get me going, and any athlete, anyone who is motivated despite the pain it takes, knows that it all starts with putting the sneakers on. That simple is that what's the action that takes not more than two minutes. They realize that there are so many situations in my life. There are so many things in my life that I cannot manage. And I also realize that how at times we believe that everything that's happening in my life, I am the director of that without realizing that how I'm just being a part of the universal movie, which is being made. And I'm just playing a very small role, very, very small role, and there is somebody else who's directing this movie. And I'm just playing my part. But what you are talking here about is very important. Many of us dream of becoming big, becoming famous, making a name pack, making a difference. But actually, the form. And I think one of the most important doorways to motivation in Vegas. Not the kind of legacy like I'll write to 325 books, and I'll become the best employer in the world. It's not that kind of legacy. Because as you said, this legacy is attributed to one, but it's built on the shoulders of many. What I mean by legacy here, it's a big word, but legacy is do something good without expecting anything in return. For example, when one was the last time you said a street stock, or you picked a trash from the street. And just because you get that irritated that it's not the right place for it to be there. Or you simply smile to a stranger who was handing you the goods you were buying. And maybe you could come up with so many more. And that's actually the small role that makes a big difference. That of kindness, the random acts of kindness. Yeah. And recently, I also watched a video. They were talking about the worldly pop leadership. You do something good without actually expecting anything in return. Really nothing in return. What I'm also listening is what kind of contributions are you making in your life. I would say by sheer universe grace. I had the great opportunity of working with few of the really kind-hearted leaders in the recent past. And I was talking to one of those leaders from this gentleman is a CEO of technology company based out of Bangalore. And he's an expert when it comes to AI. Is it kind of despite the fact that I'm working with the most innovative technologies in the world today? And I'm considered to be one of the experts in that. What I'm realizing is the importance of kindness and connections when it comes to human beings. And what I'm realizing is that as much as the world is moving towards the breakthrough technologies, it's becoming more important for human beings to be kind to each other. And you may call it legacy as you're saying. And I just loved it because you said that do it without expecting anything in return. Yeah. I remember I was listening to one of the Oprah's talk where she says that I don't talk about legacy. I believe why do you need legacy? Isn't that an act of expecting something even when you are gone? Wouldn't you call that as an act of your ego? And I love that. Why would you want to leave a legacy? Why can't you live your legacy? We talked about the four doorways of motivation, the dream, the value, the action, the legacy. But Corif, we didn't address something very important. Everybody knows this theory, but still you would be right to say, I have a dream. I take some steps about it. I know why I care, and I do good without expecting a return believing that it will grow someday. Very awesome. We fail because we are missing the golden key to motivation. And this is as simple as physical energy. We abuse ourselves with focusing mainly in one area, typically in 21st century that area is the mind. And when we come back exhausted at home, we have no power for anything else. And we experience the vegetable effect. You know the vegetable effect? No, tell me more about that. Body is a wonderful machine equal it needs. And when we abuse it with too much focus in one of the of the four key areas of us being completely being whole being. That is fine with ourselves. It actually takes control puts us on the sofa, makes us use the remote controller. Put on any show and just stare blankly at it. That's the vegetable effect. So, been there done that? Yeah. So, yeah, there is no balance. There is only balancing that's one of my favorite quotes. And, and we need to learn how to take conscious breaks. Meaning what nourishes myself. That's a question that we need to ask ourselves. Not what nourishes my mind, what nourishes my body, what nourishes my spirit. And when I noticed that I have gone too much into one of these four areas. Let's see, typically it's the mind. Exhaust ourselves intellectually. Then we can ask ourselves, how can I balance it? Which with what are the other three areas I could balance it. My favorite example for that. When I was in in India, actually. And I knew I'm having a very challenging period of living. Of sharing knowledge of being with others. Of expressing myself to my best possibilities and helping people learn. I thought, and how can I balance that with my new time with something where I'll be on the receiving end of knowledge. I'll be on the creative part of this process. And I wrote myself into an M&L jewelry workshop with two amazing ladies, mother and daughter artists. They nourished my soul completely. Yeah. Yeah. It's very important. While we are in the doldrum of life, we need to take a pause and listen to ourselves and check what nourishes my soul. Sleep is overrated. Sleep is overrated. Sleep is overrated. Sleep is just part of the vegetable effect. Okay. It's just whether you stare at the TV set or you go to sleep tired and wake up even more tired. It's not killing our energy. It's actually draining our energy. So when you want to go to bed, get up and move. I would love to hear from you if you to share your three quick points that would help our leaders in the corporate arena to show up in their zone and tap into their flow. Take care of your energy. Be an example of a balanced conscious human being. Have dreams. Share your dreams. Have fun. Be authentic and the rest will follow. And the rest will follow. Thank you so much, Nadeja. It was an absolute joy having you and I look forward to having you sometime again in India and co-create something new. Thank you so much for being with us on the show, The X-Munch Drive. My pleasure. Take care. Motivation is overrated. I think this is one of the most interesting ideologies I've heard in a while. A big thanks to Nadeja for joining us on The X-Munch Drive and sharing our valuable insights. I'm sure each one of you had a lot to take away from this conversation. Remember, the role of a leader is not to make people happy. It is to challenge them to dream, give them space, allow them to make mistakes and learn from them. With this, we'll sign off from yet another reflective episode of The X-Munch Drive. If you liked the episode, don't forget to follow us on Spotify and Apple Podcast. Do share this with someone you believe would get benefited. Catch us on our social media or you can connect to me directly on my LinkedIn. All the links will be in the description. Until then, keep learning, keep inspiring. Shukran.
