(upbeat music) - We're gonna carry on and plan the sequel 'cause they're facing, baby, these days! You gotta have the sequel! (grunts) (upbeat music) - And welcome back to Microqueers. It's our incredibly sporadic new Queer Horror Short review roundup thing. And I'm Joe. - And I'm Trace. We're definitely not watching it short today, but we are definitely covering a very explicit Queer Horror film, or thoracous erotic thrillers how it's being built. - Yes. - This is Nate Dushku, brother of Eliza's, "Burder," which is, I mean, okay, I know this is the obvious comparison, Joe, but this is American Stranger by the Lake, but less art house. - Yes, yeah. - But still, you know, showing full erect penises and dealing with a lot of the same subject matter. - Very much so, and I watch this by myself and I was explaining it to my husband and obviously making the obvious comparison. And I was like, I think it's more graphic than Stranger by the Lake though. And he goes, "Really?" Because Stranger by the Lake's really graphic. And I was like, I don't, I mean, yes, but we just covered it last year. I know it's graphic. I know we see comm, I know we see boners, but I just felt like it's a lot more in this movie. I feel like we're seeing more erect penises in and around this camp, but in terms of the actual sexuality. Like, remember, we had full conversations about whether that was actual, like, near penetrative sex in that film, whereas this seems very heavily coordinated by the two intimacy coordinators, Brooke Haney and Chelsea Pace. - Yes, but I do wonder if we didn't know, and like from like all the press about the film, that there were intimacy coordinators, would you be questioning the fact of whether or not this was real sex or not? - I don't think so. To me, this, the sex was hot and it was buried, but it never looked convincing to me. It always looked very staged. - Got it. But yeah, gotta say, I really liked this. - Yeah, no, I was surprised at how much I liked this. You know, we knew from the concept that, yes, it's an American Stranger by the Lake. So it was going to be up our wheelhouse. I like the trailer, but I didn't really get a good sense of, okay, is this just going to be titillating? And spoiler alert, it is definitely very hot. It's definitely very sex positive, but I was surprised at how much I ended up investing in the characters and trying to anticipate the outcome. So like this ended up really working for me. - Oh yeah, and I actually, I mean, truthfully, I didn't look up anything about this movie. So I didn't know anything about it. I didn't watch the trailer. I didn't look at the premise. And so I was like, okay, I will say though, I mean, like if y'all, y'all mean listeners, watch Stranger by the Lake with us. And you were kind of like, oh, it's good, but it's a little slow on the little board, which I, I mean, I didn't feel that way personally, but like I can see why someone would. I do think you should give this a watch because I think I don't think this is a particularly like sluburn of a film or, I don't know, do you think that? - I think there's definitely certain parts of it that people might say, you know, we're just kind of watching people at a clothing optional camp, you know, what is their going on? I found more often than not that there was just a few too many characters and the pacing and the narrative didn't always go in the direction that I either anticipated or kind of hoped it would. So there were elements I think that people are going to find a little unsatisfactory, but I didn't find it slow, no. - I think maybe a big part of it because the big difference between this and Stranger by the Lake is that we are following the killer. He is our protagonist in this movie. We are not following like someone and trying to be like, oh, is this person the murderer? Like what's going on? Like we know front and center, like this guy is a murderer. And I agree with you about the characters, but that's kind of where like, I mean, again, I get what people are calling the sonarotic thriller, but this is also in some ways like very much follows the slasher playbook. - Yes, yeah, it's slashery. It does have a certain amount of humor to it as well. Like there is a drag queen character, there is a burlesque star making their film debut. So there's a lot of larger than life characters, but then when you get to the murders, I found there were only a couple of characters I hoped would actually get it. And by the time we get to the end of the film, there were many characters I really wanted to survive. And that's why I think the film worked so well is because I did end up getting really emotionally invested. - I 100% agree like that. 'Cause honestly, it was a thing where you're right, there is a lot of comedy in this. To the point where it's kind of tonally jarring when he just starts murdering people, I don't think it's jarring in a bad way. I would say, oh shit, like we're going here. I do think some of these people get strangled a little too quickly and easily, but whatever. 'Cause this isn't a gory movie. Although we do get a really good decapitation in a fantasy sequence, but everything else is just strangulations. - Yes, which I think is befitting for the sub-genre because there's a lot of intimacy to this, right? Christian is a classic sociopath in that he knows he has to get close to people in order to kill them. But also at some points, I think he's actually just a bit of a generous love or like, I don't think that Christian thinks of himself as a bad person, but I mean, he's obviously doing terrible things. But for a lot of the time, it does seem like he is eager to make connections with people. And that was another aspect I thought was really fascinating about the film is not just, okay, yeah, we're following the killer and he's going around killing a bunch of people that he fucks, but also I was trying to figure out why he kills some people and not others and whether there was an emotional component or a connectivity component to that. - See, this is interesting because I fully believe that by the end of this movie, he will kill everyone because we don't see Sam and Patrick after their final fling. Like, you know, we know that they end up having sex, but we don't know, we don't see them after that. So for all, we know he did kill them. And I fully believe he plans on killing Matthew and James once he goes to visit them in New York at some point. - Right. No, you are correct, but the movie is smart enough to give us multiple fake-outs where you think he's going to kill someone 'cause he usually has sex with them and then he'll kill them. But there are several times, at least two, that I can think of right off the top of my head where he does have sex with him, but then doesn't kill them. And then it's a question of, yeah, will he double back? You know, will he try to just make sure this campground is raised to the ground with bodies before he leaves? And there's an uncertainty about what he doesn't doesn't do that I like. I found the film to be playful in that regard. - Yes, it was unpredictable in the sense that, yes, it's really hard to tell how Christian distinguishes who is next on his kill list or not, because I mean, I'm not gonna lie, Corbin stuck around a lot longer than I thought he was going to. I was ready for that guy to go immediately. - Oh, for sure, for sure. But then we get this hilarious payoff. Well, he's actually being murdered, you know, the time he is murdered where Christian, and I laughed and then caught myself because it was actually so macabre. I don't know if it was comedy anymore, but Christian at one point, as he's strangling him, to death or real this time says, "I killed you at least five times by now." - Yes, okay, but there's also a lot of times this movie will work, he's using like kill or murder as a stand-in for just fucking like the word fuck. And sometimes you can't tell what he's doing or what he's referring to, and again, I guess that to me is why I never found like, even though you could say it's leisurely pace, I guess, I was always constantly invested because I didn't know what Christian was going to do next, because as you said, he's a full-on sociopath. - Yes, and we're, you know, a good five to seven minutes into this episode, and we've not acknowledged that the performance by Michael Emery, who is known for, I've gathered guest spots on some dick wolf shows, like I think he's done station 11, and maybe one of the Chicago's. This actor is super compelling in this lead role. Like he is giving hot, sexy fantasy, you know, like if you met him at the clothing optional campground, you might also want to get an attempt with this guy because he is exuding sexual competence, but he handles the transition between lover and killer so seamlessly, like it is a chilling performance. - I 100% agree, and I mean, like big picture, like what I love is that he is in a safe space, you know, a very queer safe space, sex positive space, which is like what we as queer people we look for, maybe not like, you know, clothing optional beaches where you can fuck in public, you know, I know that's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's still a safe space. And what Christian does as a queer man is exploits that. I mean, so I could see someone walking away from this movie saying like, oh, well, the movie's kind of coming down on this type of lifestyle, and I don't really, I don't think so. - No, but I could understand why someone might think it, but I think we're both on the same page that we look at this as, oh, he's a predator who is infiltrating the community to which I still believe he identifies as a member of. Like he is very pansexual, like he will kind of fuck anybody and he's really good at forging those connections. And that's one of the fun things to watch throughout the film, but the insidious nature with which he worms himself into this and makes everybody like him so that they're just easier to take out is, yeah, it's really effective. - Yes, a hundred percent. And there's also like a very real danger to this lifestyle, you know, like the trust you put in strangers, so I love that the film is so open and like supportive of it, but also like, but maybe be a little bit more careful about who you trust. But I think that's the thing, you know, we as creepy people, we look for a community that we can trust and have this kind of like relationship with. And I feel like so few horror films tap into the danger of that. And I guess, you know, because this isn't a mainstream film, you know, this is not going to go to movie theaters and it's not going to be seen by a lot of eyes, but there's so much authenticity to this that I just really, really, really appreciate it. And then, you know, the comedy, like the bodies that literally pile up in whatever this structure is. - I know, I was like, is he just the rowing them in the communal trash dump? Because, well, okay. - I'm like, well, God, they must smell like shit, 'cause you know, all those bodies are like leaking like excrement everywhere. So like, it just must be horrible. It's not very practical. But yeah, so a long way of saying, you know, I recommend this movie and I, for sure, will remember this movie. - Yeah, yeah, for sure. This is a little indie gem and people should absolutely seek it out. - So, okay, we've kind of done a lot of broad strokes. Do you want to maybe go through like, I don't know, how do you want to do this, Joe? - Yeah, I mean, why don't we bounce through some of the key points in the plot? Because I think a lot of these characters and the interactions are worth, at least having a brief conversation about, you know, folks, we've already given away a lot of stuff on this episode. Hopefully you've figured out that the microqueers are also very spoilery. But I think this is the kind of phone where even if you know how it's going to end at the very beginning, it's still worth going on the journey with Christian because there's a lot here to unpack. - Ooh, okay, but I love that you said that though, because I love the final scene of this movie. I love it. - Oh my God. - Honestly, as like, this movie's solid. It's quite enjoyable. There's a couple of things that I would change. It's, you know, coming in between a three, three and a half, that ending bam, four. - Yeah, and, you know, I'm sitting between a three and a half before. I think I settled on a three and a half, but like, if press, I could probably bump it up to a four. I just, again, I really enjoyed this. And y'all, this is gonna be a movie that doesn't have a big marketing push. It's not gonna have a lot of eyes on it. And so, seek it out. - Absolutely. - Seek it out. - Yeah, okay. So we begin with what I'm calling a secret in media res because I completely forgot about this scene between Christian as well as David, who was played by Miles Crawford out on the boat until we ended up coming back around. Like, so I actually thought that this was Christian's opening kill because he has this conversation where, you know, it's casual conversation out on the water. And then we cut directly to Christian burning all of his clothes except for his underwear and a fire. And you're thinking, oh, well, he's getting rid of evidence. So he clearly murdered that man. - I thought the same thing. Do we see David in the opening scene? - So this is not chronological, right? Like this is the scene much later in the film. But then we go from this to the gas station where we're actually getting their first meeting. - Okay, so that's what I thought. And so that's why I was kind of like, but wait, do we know it's David in the first scene? Because I also know that this first kill, but then I don't think I put together like that actor in that opening scene. - That's the same character. - That's the same, exactly. I don't think I put that together. So I don't know if that was me missing something or if he is deliberately hidden in the cold open. - You can definitely tell it's him, but only if you know to look for this same actor space. So I was in the exact same boat. You know, I thought, wait, isn't that the same man when we see the gas station? But, you know, you don't understand that that was either a flash forward or we flash back. So I like that a lot. You know, it wasn't really until we got near the end of the film and we play the scene out again in the boat that I thought, oh, fuck, they did get me. Okay, okay. - Yeah, they 100% got me too. I think it's because it isn't immediate rest opening, but it's not like, oh, we're with him mid kill and you know, David's like, oh my God, please, I'm also because he doesn't kill David as far as we know. - As far as we know, yeah. This is definitely giving some talented Mr. Ripley vibes. - Oh, that has to be intentional. I thought the exact same thing, which, you know, how wonderful that we just covered that a couple of months ago. - And truly, yeah. And we've given credit to director Nate Dushku, but we should also note that the script was written by Amnon Lurie. I, okay, so there's very little information about the film that's out there, but I did see in the press notes, Lurie is referred to as the writer and partner of Dushku. And I was like, my fucking queerness, I don't know what that means. They're collaborators as in partners or they be partnering together in real life. - Yeah, I thought the exact same thing, but you know, solid script. (laughs) - It is, yeah. I think it knows what it's doing and it's acknowledging those homages, like you're maybe gonna quibble with this. I get a little bit of sleep away camp vibes from this. - I'm not necessarily quibbling, I'm just not sure where we're getting it from. - Like it's set at a summer camp and the bodies are piling up comedically and-- - Oh yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, sure, I mean. - Okay, you're not fine, but that's fine. We'll move on. - I'm not gonna fight you on it. I mean, I say, oh yeah, I'm reminding you, the parts are reminding me of sleep away camp, sure. I'll give it to you, I'll give it to you. (laughs) - Okay, so yes, we have this in media where it's opening and then Christian is burning the clothes. And then at the gas station, we see him meeting David as well as his wife Sue, who was played by Jill Josay, as well as I'm saying they're queer-coded teenage to slash early adult son named Ben, who was played by Taylor Patrassic. - Yeah, this poor woman Sue, I felt so bad for her, I was like, "Oh girl, you got a gay husband and a gay son." - Well, it seems like the husband is open to things as we will discover later on, but yeah, I could not tell if I was reading into things with the son, 'cause there is definitely a predatory vibe in the way that Christian is saying, you know, "Oh yeah, I'm gonna be going up to Lotus Cove." And the boy's like, "I'm not allowed up there yet." (laughs) - Yeah, I mean, he's fully, he's like, "Give it a couple of years, "but you have to get a bird or two, "but we're gonna probably follow Ben." (laughs) - Right, yeah, the sequel, bird or two. - Bird or two, bird it again. - One of the things I really liked about this interaction is that when Sue comes out of the gas station and sees a strange man talking to her son, she is super suspicious of Christian, not giving him the time of day. And then when David comes out and Christian is able to befriend her husband, she relaxes and she eases back, like, "Okay, I guess if my husband is over right with it, "then I will ease off." But part of me was just like, "No girl, your instincts were right." - Well, because she also mentions, "Oh, they're still looking for that missing guy," which again, I thought, "Oh, that's the guy from a cold open." Like, I thought we were all tying that together. - Which I think your natural impulse is right. I do think that the hiker in question is probably the person that we killed and that's why we're burning the clothes. It's just not David from the boat. - Yeah, exactly, exactly. - But we won't know that for a while. - Well, again, I wasn't even sure yet if this guy was a killer. I was like, "Oh, I guess I think that's what "the implication is because we're mentioning missing people, "but I wasn't 100% sure until he kills his first victim." - Right, yeah. (laughs) Maybe he just likes to burn his clothes. We don't know. - Yeah, maybe he got bear shit on it or something. We took about bears in this movie a lot. - This is true, in both senses of the word. - Oh, sometimes it's a bear and sometimes it's a bear. (laughs) - Honestly, my favorite character. - Delilah is the best. To the point where, honestly, I hate her destiny because I don't remember to die, but I also just think, like, I think that seems a little clumsily handled and maybe it's a budgetary constraint, but that was the only kind of scene where I was like, "Egh," like, "Mm." - Yeah. (laughs) - Yeah, there's a couple murders as we make our way to the back of the film that feel hasty. Like, they needed another take or two or maybe some better staging, but yeah, that one is a tricky one. - Yeah, but yeah, so we get to Lotus Cove. I was like, "Okay, cool." Like, you know, a clothing optional beach-like area. No, no, no, they camp and I was like-- - Well, camp. - Like, maybe, maybe I could camp this way. This might be, "Give me a clothing optional campsite "and I might go again." Like, "When did we just talk about me camping, Joe?" - We talked about it in our episode on the ritual. - Oh, the ritual, oh, yes, our audio commentary now on Patreon, everyone. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, this might be a way to get video camping, make it a clothing optional site. - I mean, there's plenty of them. I have many friends who will bounce around between campsites over the summer. - Are they fucking campsites, too? - Yes. - Oh, I've never heard of this. - Oh, yeah. - Any clothing optional place I've been to is very much like, "Oh, no, no, no, like no lewd conduct." - I mean, I think it depends. Like, you have to treat it a bit like a gay bar where it's a private campsite. So, you know, people have to be over a certain age, you have to understand what you're kind of getting into, and obviously they're encouraging people to play it very safe. So, you know, when you're playing, you know, you either have to keep it in the tents or you have, I think there's like a designated trail that you can go cruise on and a few stuff, so. - Yeah, that's true, if that's true. Well, nevertheless, these people are here to fuck. - Oh my God, everyone is down to. - Fuck. - Everyone's kind of shocking. - And everyone seems very sexually flu, but I really appreciate it. Yeah, no, this is a very, like, I could see some people watching this and being like, that is a disgusting lifestyle. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. - Yeah, they'll fuck anything. And the answer in this movie is yes, because everyone is very consensual. - Very much, relationships are open. Gender has no boundaries, I loved the representation here. - Yeah, and we should note that the press notes indicate that the vast majority of the cast is actually queer identifying in real life, so. - Good. - It's another one of those, oh, we've got a queer director, we've got a mostly queer cast, so I think that level of authenticity does really shine through. - Yeah, 100%, I agree. - Okay, so what did you think of drag queen Henley, who was played by Chris Colan? - I thought that was the first boner I saw in the film. - Truly, yes, so Henley is disrobing from drag, didn't wanna miss even a moment, so came right from a gig, stripping down in the parking lot, makes eyes a Christian and it's like. - The game is on, yeah, absolutely. Henley also, we should know, has the cabin nearby the campsite, and I gotta say, I want this cabin, it just looks like a roof, like over, it looks like a house tent almost, and I love it. - Yeah, it's a big open floor space, and I mean, I thought it was amusing that after Henley is spoiler alert, murdered by Christian, only Ranger Delilah seems to notice, but also everybody is just down to go into his cottage and fuck. - So I saw a couple of reviews, and again, there aren't a lot of reviews out here for that being a critiquing, like it's a little unrealistic how people don't seem to, like, notice that people start to go missing, except of course-- - No, it is not. - No, it is not. - No, it is not. - I thought the exact same thing, I was like, I think they could also be as soon as a critique as how, like, we don't really, like, we're a community, but we're not a community, so that didn't really bother me. And again, everyone's so concerned about fucking, so like, what? (laughs) - Well, that, and, you know, there are a couple of points where characters will say, oh, you know, nobody's seen the Kyle's today, or hey, where have those people gone? And somebody will say, oh, I think they left a little bit early, or they might have just taken one of the kayaks out or something, so there are logical, plausible excuses, and people do take off early, so it kind of makes sense to me, because all of these people are also, they're not beholden to anybody else. - Well, and also, like, why would anyone be murdered here, even if you have a new person, they welcome new people all the time, so-- - Yeah. - There would be no instinct to be like, well, someone's making people disappear. - Yeah, it would be a different story if we did find a body, and the only character that that happens to is Ranger Delilah, who is played by the burlesque star Delilah Dubois. - And I think that's the only reason Delilah. Do you think Delilah would have survived if she hadn't discovered those bodies? - I think it's entirely possible. Like, she is definitely are not exactly great at their job authority figure. Like, I got the impression that initially, I thought that Delilah was actually wearing a Ranger outfit and was like, yeah. (laughs) - I thought the same thing. - I guess she's going around giving out, you know, micro doses of shrooms and telling people, you know, don't forget about protection, if that's your thing. Like, she seems more the kind of person who's giving you the orientation to the camp as opposed to making sure that people aren't injured or harmed. - Yeah, exactly. But then, like, I love it 'cause when she discovers the body, she's like, "Oh my God, I'm gonna lose my job." (both laughing) Again, funny. (laughs) - And scary because she's talking to the killer at that very moment. - Yeah, yeah. Well, and again, this is actually one thing I love the way the scene was framed. 'Cause even though I don't like how it like turns out and like kind of the way it happens, it's a great shot where, you know, where she's like, she's trying to load her gun, but then you see in the background the out of focus figure of Christian slowly approaching her. - Yeah, there's a couple of really ominous shots. Or as you said, you know, even some of the language where the fucking could mean sex or it could connote, "Oh, I'm going to murder you." And I like the interplay between some of this is sexy and some of this is bodies befallen. - Yeah. So we have, you know, open couple Matthew and James who are, I love it. So the way we do exposition here till I get character backstory is we get their name. - The profession. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no profession. I was like, "What an interesting way to do it." - Yeah, it's like Corbin is a life wellness coach and both Matthew and James are like, one of them is a psychiatrist and one of them is-- - Like an artist or like a studio or something. - Yeah, but he also, I think does massage therapy because he gives Christian the massage later, although it was admittedly a sexy looking massage. - Oh, no, they like that. I literally one person walks up and they're like, "Let's fuck." (laughs) - Honestly, it's wild. But yeah, this to me was very reminiscent of every YA movie, particularly Mean Girls, 'cause that's the one that most people can think of automatically. - It's the cafeteria scene, right? - It's the cafeteria scene. It's like over there, you've got the Kyle's there, you know, like all bottoms and they'll immediately wanna fuck you. That's Corbin, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. - I wanted so much more from the Kyle's because I thought they were supposed to be like the headers and I was like, oh, but we killed two of them in a really great scene. I think that's one of my favorite things in the movies when they get the Kyle's down. - What happens to the other Kyle? - Yes, what happened to the third one? I don't know. - I was scouring my notes, trying to figure it out. And I think again, this is where some of that plotting and the film's construction doesn't quite work is yeah, there are three Kyle's. And then when we go to fuck the two of them on the island in what I would arguably say is the most dangerous sex interplay scene of the film, I just kept thinking to myself, where's the third Kyle? And we never see that third Kyle again. - Also, y'all, this is like a non-pornographic film in which we have Christian fucking one of the Kyle's while other Kyle fucks Christian. - Yes. - That's not something I've seen in a non-pornographic film before. - Yeah, and we're doing some pretty rigorous kink play because obviously these people think that they're signing up for a very hard fuck I'm using air quotations. And Christian is choking them out. What, again, is this nice subversion is the first time we see him have sex, which is with Corbin, like we all think that he has killed Corbin because Corbin is knocked out cold, but to such a degree that he doesn't revive when Christian finishes. And we think, oh my God, he just killed that man. And then Corbin comes back to life. - Yeah, he's like, all right. But then when we do this again with the Kyle's, we think, oh, okay, well, maybe that's what's gonna happen again, but no, he actually just kills them both. - I think that's what Att's just been to it though, is because yeah, because of that first thing with Corbin, you're never quite sure if he's actually going to murder them in the act, or if he's just being kinky and rough, you know? - Yeah. - Or maybe he decides on the moment. Maybe he doesn't know when he instigates the sex or when someone instigates it with him, what he's gonna do until he comes. - Okay, so yeah, that is the big question that I post to you is why do you think that he is killing these people in this order? Is it literally just if he has sex with you, he will kill you? - I don't know, man. Like, I honestly don't know and I don't think we're supposed to know. Like, I think there is a randomness to this that makes it scarier. - Okay, I can definitely get on board with that 'cause I think it's more or less where I ended up settling too. - Okay, because of what was your idea? Did you think there was like a plan in mind? - Again, I think he gets off on the randomness of it. - I definitely, up to a certain point, thought that it was if he kills you (mumbles) if he fucks you, he's going to kill you. But then, yeah, at that moment with Corbin, because I thought, oh, well, he sees it. He's still alive, but he doesn't try to finish him off. Like, he could have arguably just continued to strangle him when he saw he was breathing and be done with it. And he doesn't. He lets Corbin go. - And I think there's another version of it. But yeah, he's like, oh, maybe it's like something stupid. Like, oh, if the sex wasn't good, then he kills them. Or if he finds them annoying, he kills them. But the movie doesn't offer any kind of answers like that. And I like that, to be honest. - Yeah, yeah. And then the question mark that I had moving forward, 'cause that was my assumption. And then we see later on that he has some kind of encounter sexual with Patrick, who is Sam's husband. So Sam is this like amazing looking black lady and she is there with her trans either husband or boyfriend Patrick. And there's this fantastic moment where Christian basically hooks the line by saying, oh, you know, I bought him too. As though to say, I'm willing to do anything the pair of you might like to do. So we see him at one point get into the tent with Patrick and then we fade to black. So I just automatically assume that Patrick was dead. And then he pops out and then we see him later and you're like, oh, okay, that's great. Because I actually really, really like Sam and Patrick. They're probably my favorite characters apart from the jokiness of Ranger Delilah. - I agree with you. But then, 'cause it seems like again, his ultimate goal, 'cause though the only person who kind of turns him down at any point in the film is Sam. And it's not like, oh, what I'm gonna have sex to do. I'm in the mood right now type of thing. And so it's like, oh, I think he wants to kill them together. So I truly think they are dead by movies, but we just, we don't know. - We don't know, yeah. 'Cause he does have a sexual encounter with both of them later, but you're right. We never see what happens afterwards. So we don't see bodies. We don't see him even leave the tent. It's just, he has sex with them and then we move on. And I love that ambiguity. - A hundred percent. When nothing else about the movie is minus his motive, I guess, is particularly ambiguous or method of choosing victims on movies. - Yeah, there's also this fascinating moment 'cause you mentioned that Sam turns him down at one point. Yeah, she kind of says, I'm not in the mood right now, but maybe later. And Christian actually also turns down Patrick at one point. So they start making out after the shrooms at the campfire and the look of pain at the rejection that Patrick feels when a Christian walks off. And I thought, oh, really? We're gonna have a trans man in this, at the super sex positive, very pansexual, queer camping site. And this character is the only one who gets turned down. So I was actually really happy to see that we do not only end up having sex with Christian and Patrick, but then also Christian and the couple. So it was this really interesting thing of, yeah, it's like, sometimes we're saying yes. And sometimes we're saying no, which, shocking. That is the nature of consent. - Well, and also 'cause of the closest we get to really knowing Christian is the scene where he's tripping mushrooms. And he actually starts crying. And so I actually really do wanna rewatch the movie again now with knowing, 'cause at that point, he hasn't murdered anyone that we know of yet. - Has he, oh no, you're right, he murders Henley after that. - After this, okay. - I think he does this after this. I would love to watch that scene again, knowing what I know about Christian now. But then again, he keeps Corbin around, but only kills him after Corbin goes to fuck Mr. Leather Woodchuck, new guy. (laughing) - Who P.S. never even dies and just disappears also in the back half of the film. - I know, and I was kind of like this guy's kind of a prick, but whatever, he used to cocky little shit actually. And they're just very much not my type. So I was kind of like, all right, kill this fucker. (laughing) - I think that was, you know, I said to off the top that the film is really good at subverting some of our expectations, but also at times it doesn't feel totally satisfying. And the fact that Mr. Leather Woodchuck doesn't end up, like I wanted to see this muscle die to get chased through the woods and die a horrible little death or something. - I am so, and he just disappears after the sex scene. He's like, all right, I'm out, I guess. Maybe it was a day trip for him. - Well, yeah, I mean, he shows up late and then the weekend is over and that's the last one. So it totally makes sense that some characters do end up just saying, oh, we're packing the car. Also, it's starting to rain, so whatever, but. - Yeah, well, as soon as the rain comes, that's when we are wrapping this movie up. - Truly, yeah. I did kind of want to double back to what you mentioned about The Campfire, but. - Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, no, go ahead. What do you want to say? - I love that you brought up that moment at The Campfire because this is the one moment of true honesty that we probably see of this character in this entire film. And I love that it's, well, he's under the influence so he can't be fully in control of his faculties. He's dosed on shrooms. - Yeah. - But the line that he says is, will this change me? - Oh, again, I remember hearing that line, but it didn't stick with me. But I bet you, again, watching it again, I would reevaluate this in a completely different way. - It's just like, so does that mean that he does have a conscience and he doesn't want to do what he does or he's actively thinking about it? Does he, or is it just like, this is who I am and the only time I'm actually self-reflexed is when I'm on drugs and having an out of body experience. - I mean, we don't know. - We don't know. - We don't know. - We don't know. - This character is so fascinating. - Yeah, well, again, 'cause he's just a big cipher. Like, we just don't, again, I won't overbelabor the point. We don't know. - Mm-hmm. - So yeah, I really wanna rewatch this campfire scene now. - Mm. (laughing) - So yeah, I mean, so by the time it starts raining and the weekend's kind of over, most of our cast is dead, correct. And then, you know, we killed a lot of it because she finds the bodies of two of the Kyle's and the third one's missing. We don't know where he is. - And Matthew and James have gone home, even though they've given Christian the business card so he can find them later, which I love the detail that he doesn't own a cell phone. - I know. And everybody's just like, oh, how quaint or so, you know, you need to get in touch with the real world. - And it's like, no, he's off the grid. - Yeah, he's off the grid, he's a drifter. It's like, yeah, because he's trying to skirt under the radar of the authorities who are probably looking for him. (laughing) - So, okay, so yeah, he eat fucks, Patrick, and presumably Sam, and again, we don't know what happens to them. - Nope. - And then we go back with David to what we discover is the opening scene. - Yes, we'll go back to the opening scene. And, you know, this scene plays out kind of exactly how you think it's going to, you know, he's fishing with him because his wife won't go with him. And Christian makes like the ultimate move and he's like, I'm gonna suck your dick and then you're gonna come in my mouth. And he's like, what if my wife and child find out? They're not, okay. - Not. (laughing) - And Christian just kind of says, you know, let yourself live. And I do like that this, like in some ways that line is super porny, right? I think I've actually heard a line like that in a porn. - Yeah, I quite literally did today. (laughing) - I'm not gonna lie, it was a really fucking call. - Well, I thought this was actually harder than most of the sex scenes because again, it's all about, you know me. I'm all about the setup more so than the actual fucking itself. So like the build up to the blow job. I was like, whoo, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. - I've got the vapors. - Yes, very much so. - Yeah. But I love that this is also the sex scene that we sort of pull away from the most. You know, in other scenes, we've seen characters on top of each other. It's a lot of huffing and puffing and we're seeing silhouettes on the tents and that kind of stuff. This one, I mean, yeah, the stuff with Sam and Patrick is not explicit. But this, you would think we might see some stuff and instead we pull back to an extreme long shot out on the water. So we're just taking in the majestic beauty of the woods and the water and the loons and we can still see the head bobbin, but I just thought it was a really interesting way to frame this final sex scene. - Right? Like how would it be the least graphic out of all of them? - Yeah, yeah. And then of course, I immediately thought, oh, he's gonna kill this guy. And that's gonna be sort of that full circle moment. We're gonna see him burning a new set of clothes or maybe that'll be the clothes we saw him burning. And instead, no, it's back on the dock and he's just asking if he can borrow the boat. - Yeah, exactly. Which we have a lot of these like mentions and shots of snapping turtles, which I think is maybe meant to be kind of a metaphor of some kind, but. - Well, yeah, I mean, the title of the movie is called "Birder" because Christian always introduces himself as a bird watcher. And it's notable that we do get lots of shots of balloons, but yeah, you know, it's Delilah warns him if he's going to go out swimming to be wear of the snappers because they will bite. And you're just thinking, okay, well, I understand what we're doing here, nudge, nudge, wing, wing. - Which brings us to the final scene of this film, Joe, which I was like, okay. So, you know, he goes to this public restroom and he is paying next to the guy. They're checking each other's dicks, they almost hook up. And I was like, okay, well, we know if this is going, he's gonna either gonna fuck him and leave or fuck him and kill him. And Joe, what is the movie doing instead? - So they get briefly interrupted because somebody else comes out of a stall. So this guy whose name is spider, according to the credits, played by Bobby Applebaum, he says, I've got a van outside. So just come and meet me. And the assumption is we're gonna fuck in the van or we'll drive somewhere and then we can fuck in the van there. And you think, yeah, I know where this is gonna go. And we just see Christian come out and the doors to the van are wide open. We've got this garish red neon lighting. It looks like a booed war. - And Christian gets clobbered in the back of the head, dumped in this van, and it turns out that this guy is also a serial guy. - I love it. - I died. - This was so funny. And I was like, okay, you know what movie? - Yeah, got me. Yeah, got me. - And it's so abrupt, there's, you know, there's no wink, wink, nudge, nudge. In this moment, it's just we go to credits and the movie is over. It's like-- - Oh, and the music that plays over the credits, it's like, oh God, I remember it was tonally off from the rest of the film and I thought that was really clever. - Yeah, you're right. It's an orchestral version of the teddy bear picnic. (laughing) ♪ If you go into the woods today ♪ ♪ You're in for updates ♪ ♪ So done, so done ♪ - Yes, again, like so, I hope this gets a physical release because I really wanna own this. I won't show it to my parents, but I'll show it to other people. (laughing) - Yeah, it's just, it's a very fun, clever, entertaining, sex positive, sexy film. And I think part of the reason it probably worked so well for us is that we went into this with not a ton of expectations. And I do love that you can really get that kind of experience when you're watching independent queer cinema. - 100%. I really hope we get more movies like this. I'm quite interested to see what Dishcooth does next. I mean, he doesn't like, 'cause he's also kind of an actor part-time, but like, he's only directed one other film before and it was a movie with his sister. - Yes. - So, I mean, honestly, this is what he has, like bring on something next, man. - Yeah, and that other movie was tonally very different. It was almost a fictionalized auto-biographical piece about them traveling back to Armenia, which is their cultural heritage. So yeah, this is a foray into genre, but I mean, I just appreciated how unabashedly queer this movie was. - Queer, sexual, sexy, suspenseful, funny, like it has it all. - Yeah, and really, the reason we like "Stranger by the Lake" is because it felt audacious and daring. And we thought, well, of course, because it's fucking French. It's something we're never gonna be able to get here in North America. And lo and behold, here we have the North American equivalent and it's still fucking audacious and sexy. - Well, and it's also because "Stranger by the Lake" was 10 years ago, so it took 10 years to get an American version of that film. - Yeah, yeah. - Bye. - So yeah? - Yeah, that's burger, everyone. I mean, again, we've spoiled the fuck out of it, but go see it out if you haven't already. It's really, really, really good. - Mm-hmm. - And yeah, shit, I mean, I guess until our next microqueers, until we find another queer indie film that we can cover on this, "Crossout Birder." - Indeed, and "Crossout Microqueers." (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
Burn your clothes and seek consent because we're talking about director Nate Dushku's sophomore feature, Birder (2023). Spoilers: we strongly recommend this one.
Think American Stranger by the Lake, complete with full frontal nudity and dangerous sex. But there's also plenty of dark comedy here, as well as sex positivity and diverse representation.
Plus: Michael Emery's amazing lead performance, a twisty in media res beginning, snapping turtles, and an ending that raises the film a whole half star.
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