What happens at the biggest and best pharmacy event in the world? Join the best and brightest pharmacy professionals in New Orleans this December for an energizing and riching, enlightening experience like no other. Simply put, there is nothing like it. ASHP's mid-year clinical meeting offers everything you need for your career to blossom, including countless professional development and career advancement opportunities. Just imagine what you can accomplish at an event that brings together 20,000-plus pharmacy professionals from across the globe. Special rates are available when you register and book your hotel before September 27th. Learn more at midyear.ashp.org. That's M-I-D-Y-E-A-R.ASHP.org. Welcome to the ASHP official podcast, your guide to issues related to medication use, public health, and the profession of pharmacy. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Technician Topics. This podcast provides an opportunity to share ideas and best practices focused on professional development, clinical and innovative practices, and other topics important to pharmacy technicians. My name is Matthew Riewald, Assistant Professor of Pharmacy at Mayo Clinic, and I will be your host for today's episode. Joining me as co-host is Bradley Lorang, Pharmacy Education Specialist at Mayo Clinic. Hello, Brad. Hi, Matt. Looking forward to today's conversation. All right. Our guests today are Cassie Foreman and Jamie Collett. Both of our guests are pharmacy technician supervisors at Mayo Clinic as well. Thanks for joining us today, Cassie and Jamie. Let's get started talking about today's topic, pharmacy technician education, bringing academia to the pharmacy technician workforce. My first question for you both is, I'd love to know a little bit more about each of your journeys to your current position. And in addition to that, if you could expand and let us know, how has pharmacy education and training become a passion of yours throughout your journey? So let's kick this off with Jamie. Hello, Jamie. Hello, Matt. Thank you for having me. Yeah, so my name is Jamie Collett. I'm one of the technician supervisor here at Mayo Clinic. I have been in pharmacy in the profession since 1999, so nearly 25 years. I am currently a technician supervisor, but did work as a pharmacy technician for a number of years before I was promoted to this position. I worked in a variety of roles in my career. We started out our Tech Check Tech program in the early 2000s. I was a part of that launch. I've also been a preceptor. I've worked on different redesigns, including database management as well. And as far as education, there really was no formal education or formal preceptor education when I started. So it really was building it from the ground up. And back then, it was really just mostly training technicians. There was no preceptor designation, I guess you could say. But in around 2004, I was asked to be a preceptor. And I actually went to a preceptor course in 2005. And at that time, still no formal preceptor classes for pharmacy technicians actually had to attend one from nursing, which was an eye opening experience. And it was great to see that difference. And then there were a lot of limitations within pharmacy. So we had our decentralized pharmacy technicians. We had technicians that worked in a few other areas, companies to appropriations and our unit dose areas. But we did not have the expansion that we do have today. In 2014, pharmacy education really expanded. And that really was my true passion from the very beginning. And I was very excited to be a part of this opportunity. But really between 2014 and 2016, there were a lot more opportunities in regards to pharmacy education for technicians and other advanced opportunities. Around that same time, we also started our career development model, which really allowed our technicians to expand on their careers and also be compensated for doing that as well. The practice has really evolved over the years and has really enhanced our education. And I'm really excited for all that I've garnered up to this point, and I'm excited for our future. And I know, Cassie, you've had a lot of years of experience in a little bit of a different setting. However, I know you'll be able to touch on that. So if you wouldn't mind to speak to that, that would be great. Thanks, Jamie. I appreciate that. I have been at Mayo since 1999, but my beginning starts earlier than that. As a kid, I wanted to be a teacher, but I didn't want to do all the schooling. I was working at a grocery store and I was at a career day. And I found I met somebody there that was working in pharmacy. And when I came back to Rochester, I found out that there was a program at our local community college for pharmacy technicians. And so I decided to sign up for that and I completed that program and then got a job at Mayo Clinic. I started in our walk-up locations, but I realized quickly that I wanted to be in the mail order space. So I started transitioning into that role and working in different positions with an inventory, becoming an assistant supervisor in that space, worked on the automation team for a bit that we have at Mayo. And then an opportunity rose to join the new project for Mayo, getting a new electronic health record. So that put me learning some programming and met new people and became the principal trainer for the outpatient pharmacy, building some curriculum for that new staff that we're going to be coming into the new stuff. After three years in that role, the supervisor position opened up and I applied and moved back into that role. Now I've been in that role for about six or seven years and I've been able to grow as a mentor and a preceptor and work with our new technicians and the students and helping them adapt and learn what is involved in pharmacy, teaching the upcoming generations about pharmacy technician and the value that we have to this career. Thank you, Cassie and Jamie, for sharing a little bit of your journey. It's always interesting to hear you guys do that and I learned something new every time I hear you talk even though we worked together for several years. Cassie, I'd really be interested in hearing how did you first become involved with the education and training program here at Mayo Clinic? So when I came on this role as a supervisor, really the only responsibility was making the schedules to ensure everything is trained on and to ensure that everything's completed and they were trained on everything that they needed to work in our space. But that didn't seem exactly what I wanted. I wanted to do more with that and I wanted to be able to make it into something bigger than just checking boxes at the end of eight to 12 weeks of time. Matt came on, was hired to start the program here at Mayo Clinic School of Health Sciences in 2017 and he reached out and asked me to become involved in that and being able to expand that role to be more than just the checkboxer, being able to be the employee site coordinator and working with the preceptors and growing my staff to be able to do teaching and helping them learn and working side by side with them more in this role to help them become better teachers and help them to teach more formally all the things that we get to teach new staff to do but to do with the students and help them grow and show them everything we get to do and how cool some of the things are that we get to do and how unique a lot of what we do in pharmacy is compared to other spaces. Jamie, what about you? How have you got to do that stuff on your side and inpatient? Yeah, I actually had a very similar experience. I mean, if I go further back, it really begins around 2000-2001. I acted as a principal trainer for technicians around that timeline that role expanded in 2004 and that's when I became a preceptor, the technique class in 2005, which I mentioned before, before taking my supervisor position in 2007. And even as a supervisor, actually, I did a lot of training for other supervisors over the years. So in that sense, I'm precepting other supervisors as well. So again, 2008, it was really heavy when it came to that. We had a lot more staffing at that time, which required additional education and training. Now, there were preceptor challenges as we expand. We saw a lot of different areas needing preceptors, which meant that some of your traditional areas didn't have that expertise for a long time. So we really had to make those corrections. And like you, Cassie, Matt reached out and I became part of that team to help with kind of that creation of the pharmacy technician training process as well as some of the other processes that go into that. Really, that evolution 2017 was a big timeline. And being part of that structure was very, very meaningful. And we just don't see as many challenges as we did around that timeframe because we've done a lot of work. So a lot of work going into that very much appreciated. But yeah, it's been quite an experience. That's awesome. I know when I came to you both, it was very apparent that you both had a passion for education and training. And I think that's been the most exciting thing about this journey has been really to be able to see the impact it's having on our teams, see how it's bringing your personal passions to the workplace and being able to foster your employees and your team members. And that's something that's been really exciting to see. So kind of as you alluded, Jamie, I'd love to have you expand a little bit. You kind of mentioned how, you know, it's been since 2017, we've been engaged in running this program, but a lot's changed since then. So I'd love to hear a little bit about your experience having worked with the pharmacy technician program over the past six or seven years. So Jamie, I'd love to hear more about that. Yeah, absolutely. I will preface by saying this has been very much a learning experience. You know, previous to 2017, it was pretty informal or unstructured. It is very much structured, which was very hard to get on top of in the beginning, but over time I've learned to appreciate that much more. But a lot of this is a very collaborative. We've made adjustments over the years and each time any iteration or changes that we have made has made the process a lot better. There's been a lot of work, very transformative in nature. It's had a huge impact on the mindset of our learners, as well as our existing staff. A lot of times our technicians, while our students who come in as technicians, have a refreshed and very positive or energetic approach, which really rubs off onto our staff has made a tremendous impact on how our current staff view incoming staff that have done through this program, which has really been an eye opening experience for me, as well as our preceptors and trainers. Thanks, Jamie. That's a perfect segue into our next series of questions. I'm going to take a little bit of a turn and talk a little less about the personal journeys and experiences. And, Cassie, would you mind sharing how you've seen an impact on your team, how it's affected the conversations and attitudes of your preceptors and trainers? Yeah, it's been so cool. The opportunities that have happened with my staff being able to do more official training and official preceptoring has been fun to watch them grow. I've been able to tap a few on the shoulder that I think we're like, "I don't know about this, but to just watch them work with the students and watch them be able to answer the questions with so much more confidence." It's been really fun as a supervisor to watch that evolution of some staff that you never think maybe they can handle it, but it's been fun to be able to tap some of these quieter ones and say, "Hey, I'm pretty sure you can." I have low turnover. It's been great for the staff to have this opportunity as something new. Being able to just embrace the staff to help the students and work with them more. They appreciate the opportunities to be involved. I think they see this as a growth opportunity and something new for them as well. Teaching other people how to teach and work alongside and how to communicate and how to have the patience and the understanding when they don't always get things right away. They don't get it right away. It takes them some time to navigate and figure out and ask questions and watching them work with those students and have the patience that they need, but watching them grow into this role and having other people look up to them and ask fellow staff members or asking them questions. They see them working with the students and they see that they're doing pretty well doing this and asking others for clarifying questions later has also been neat to watch. That's so awesome, Cassie. I know when I first talk to you and talk to your staff and saw their passion for teaching and training, it's really infectious and seeing how the care that they provide to our learners and our students really transforms these incoming individuals into our profession, into future pharmacy technician professionals. That's something that I think this program really does a great job doing and I know you've had a lot of efforts again supporting your team members and supporting your staff to do so. Yeah, I think they also take great pride when they're hired, when they can say, "Oh, I got to work with that student." Now they're getting hired by Mayo. I think there's a bit of that excitement that evolves from them too from seeing that happen. Oh, I was a part of that. I got to be a part of what just happened there. Yeah, I know. I think that's one of those things that we don't often think about when we create these types of programs is not just the effect of how it's going to help our department and how it's going to help staff our teams, but also how it's just going to lift up and support our current team members who have that passion and desire for education and training. But in relation to that, we do want to make sure that these individuals have a defined career path with this new opportunity within our organizations. And I know having worked with both you, Cassie and you, Jamie, on our career development system, it's something that we noticed in the past. There was definitely a clear opportunity for improvement in regards to how we could recognize these burgeoning team members to foster this desire to educate and this desire to train. So again, knowing that you've both been heavily involved in revamping the career development system here at Mayo Clinic, including our recently implemented career lettuce, I'd love for you each to tell me a little bit about how it was developed and kind of in line with that, how have we placed education to that model? And maybe we can kick this off with Jamie telling us a little bit. Yeah, thanks, man. I think just to preface a couple of things. One, education is that a huge involvement from day one, specifically version two. And I just want to mention too, there are two versions of this model. There was version one that actually was launched or implemented in 2013, 2014. It was pretty limited in scope. It really only had a three tier structure. And there weren't a lot of opportunities for staff to take advantage of that. You really had to be promoted into a very specific or specialty assignment in order to take advantage of a tier three opportunity. And that included technicians that were in auditing roles, preceptor roles, teaching and assessing roles, those types of things, or satellite pharmacy. Beyond that time frame, really the pandemic, you would think that would be a limitation, but that allowed us an opportunity to revamp and revisit and take a look at the career development model organization wide, because there were many concerns surrounding retention and salary. So it gave us an opportunity to review the whole thing and just have an opportunity to make it better and provide a more balanced approach for staff. So in 2022, around that time frame, the second version was reviewed and launched. And lots of positive feedback that came from that. But what I want to say is that it really focused a lot more on education than working specifically in some of these isolated areas. We really took a look at how can we bolster education and introduce different snippets of education for technicians so that it will allow them the opportunity to be promoted. And that goes for every shield of the organization anywhere from practice, education, research, quality, and leadership, which is really a great opportunity for staff to take any of one of those directions. We're really seeing a lot more satisfaction. Staff are happy in what they do. I think they get satisfaction from what it is that they learn. But not only that, there is a compensation piece that goes along with it. And I know Cassie, you worked with me and others on the second wave, and you had a lot to contribute. So I'm curious to hear your perspective on that. Yeah, thanks, Shami. So like you had said, we had the tier three, and that was limited to just our inventory teams, automation teams compounding, and then some very specific call center positions. And so basically, staff had to wait for somebody to leave, and then a position opened up where this would allow the technician to grow at their own pace and go as they wanted to do with the new five tiering structure. The group that we were on, Jamie, you and I, that was, it was great to be a part of that. It was a lot of discussions and conversations and thoroughly discussing how to break the pathways down on how to make this effective for so many people so that there was something for everybody where they wanted to learn and grow. Mayo Clinic being a teaching institution, it was logical to have education in there, whether that was formal education, or on your own learning. We have the instructor level of academia appointment in the tiering. It was one that seemed very attainable for a technician. Many of our preceptors have been able to obtain that role very quickly, based on their involvement in helping with the education of the students and mentoring also the current staff. As staff level up, the pay increases and our staff has been quite pleased and sometimes shocked at what their raise can be based on them growing amongst the tiers. So that's been fun to be able to give that compensation information to the staff as they earn it. The staff know who the preceptors and the trainers are, and they're one of those go-to people. There isn't a supervisor here all the time, but with that recognition of being a preceptor, they know that that person probably has a good idea of what's happening here. And it's so rewarding and so fun to watch the staff progress through these tierings and seeing how they can grow. And it's limitless now. It's all on them to decide if they want to go rather than having that open position, but having that education piece and letting them learn what they want to learn has been very fun and neat for them to be able to do. Great. Now you both shared a little bit about how the tiering model that we use here at Mayo Clinic helped us address some staffing shortage and staff satisfaction and staff retention issues. But in reality, we continue that struggle nationwide with the funding to technician workforce. Again, whether that's those shortages or appropriate compensation or even the increased responsibilities, we as technicians are faced with every day. Jamie, how have you navigated this with your team? Yeah, thanks Brad. Actually, I just, I really want to emphasize that pandemic, it was tough. Not only was it tough because of the pandemic, but we had a lot of issues with burnout as well as people just simply being exhausted or other measures that had to take place during that time frame. I will say our staff have been able to prevail through that, which is really great. During that time though, we were struggling with things that were abnormalities. For example, we had staff that were choosing to retire early, some returning back to school, some taking other positions, some choosing to take a supplemental role or per diem role. And not only that, as far as hiring, our applicant pool just really shrank. And so we just simply did not have applicants like we had seen in the past. On top of that, we had a lot of external costs that were rising. So that was a big pinch for our staff. The career development model enhancement was actually a good time because of specifically those rising costs. So it was great to see in the fact that we took the opportunity to do it during that time frame. It really made a whole lot of sense. There were also a lot of environmental type of activities, constructions, new workflows, staff were asked to do more, do things differently. We had a temporary work area created, so it really separated our staff, so we had to work out at two pharmacies. We also had to swiftly hire a lot of staff for that project. So having a lot of new employees coming in at one time was really very burdensome for our staff. So a lot of anxiety staff, they know that there are a lot of resources, but during that time frame, it's hard to see that. Again, that led to additional hours in burnout. Now as a supervisor, I myself came in during weekends, off hours to really try to lighten that workload. Our staff did appreciate that. They did see that and certainly commented on that. Staff are encouraged and have learned to work differently and more efficiently because of this process, which I as a supervisor certainly appreciate because that allows them an opportunity to do things differently and in their way. The pandemic has shaped us all and really required us to pivot and figure out how we can continue to meet the needs of our patients. And I think that's something that's really exciting to see is that a lot of these initiatives that have been going as far back, Jamie, as you talked about before, as early 2000s, we've known that we need to educate and train our technicians to the highest level possible. But there's just so many challenges that continue to confront us and become barriers for how we're going to move forward with these particular initiatives. And I think often when we think about building these types of programs or these type, this type of work that we've really embarked on over the last seven years, it's very easy to focus on things like ROI, turnover, retention, and some of those other key metrics that I know, especially us as pharmacy leaders, are very much looking at to ensure a healthy workforce that's happy and content with working in this profession. I think the more I've been in this profession, I've recognized that we don't often talk about the intangible effect that it has on our teams, such as that increased professional identity formation, really having that intrinsic desire and knowledge that I am a pharmacy technician. And this is what I contribute to the health care system. And in addition to that, that awareness of roles within that greater health care ecosystem, I think if nothing else, that's something that the pandemic did very well for us, is highlight the need for the roles that we as pharmacy technicians, our colleagues, our pharmacists have in the health care ecosystem, but actually everyone in allied health and how we contribute to the health care landscape. Given all of that, I'd love to hear from each of you a little bit about your perspective. You know, what types of intangible effects has this had? I think again, I'd love to hear how it's had an effect not only on your teams, but also on you as you've gone through this journey. So Cassie, if you could tell us a little bit about how this has really impacted you and being involved in education and training, I'm sure we'd love to hear that. Yeah, sure, Matt. So I think the program has really demonstrated the need for the tax. I think it's shown them the value of the roles and the importance of pharmacy technicians and what we can do and the value we add to the role and the pharmacy and being able to watch the technician role, be able to evolve and do more things than we used to be able to do. It's rewarding for me as a supervisor to see the staff shine and be recognized and watch them teach other people and watch them work with the students, especially and see them grow themselves and watching them be able to watch the students learn and watch them watch the light bulbs go off as they learn something new and get to see something click into place. I think it's great for the staff to be able to demonstrate what they know and not just do the same job every day, but be able to demonstrate what they know and teach them has been fun for me to see as well. And I think it gives the staff a boost of confidence. They trust me to teach other people. This is a pretty cool gig and being able to do something bigger than just come in and fill and ship medications all day long, having them be able to teach a student, demonstrate what they know has been fun for me to watch too. What about you, Jamie? Yeah, Cassie, I echo a lot of what you just said. I will say that our students, when they choose to apply to a position here at Mayo, you can really observably tell the excitement that they have for working for this institution, as well as the pharmacy practice, which really speaks to the pharmacy technician training program. So a lot of kudos to that. I will say as far as a training and precepting experience, our staff have over the course of the last at least five years, have really struggled with training employees because one, they may not feel like they're giving them enough training or enough knowledge, or perhaps they're burnt out. And I think happening our students hired through Mayo has made a huge amount of difference. It's provided a sense of assurance for our staff. They know what they're doing, you know, for the most part, obviously, there is some train that goes along, but they know what they're doing, they understand pharmacy, they have a passion, they come in with a very positive attitude, which not everybody does, but most of our students come in with a very positive, exciting attitude, which makes life easier for everybody in the department, me as a supervisor, but our team as a whole. And the time it takes to train our employees is far less. It's decreased quite a bit, just because there is that working knowledge and education, turnover rates have been lower. And I think in part, that's because of our culture and the people that they're working with. And that is a lot to do with our students that come in with this passion. That's just the theory I have. This has really strengthened our teams, reduced burden, not only for the team, but me as a supervisor. There's a lot less work I have to do in that regard. Plus, I'm able to engage with staff and fix things and say like, okay, how can we do things differently and focus less on other issues that might be occurring in the workplace? Again, the learners take great pride in the program. Our preceptors are taking more and more of that as well, or we're seeing a lot more of that, which really is setting the stage for the future. I am truly excited. I know Cassie, you are as well as our education team. Looking forward to the future to a lot more great things that we can do. That's excellent to hear. I think if there's one thing anyone can take away from this conversation, I think it's that education and having the opportunity to really teach and train our future generation of pharmacy technician leaders brings a high level of satisfaction and joy to the workplace. When you hear some of these stories that Jamie and Cassie shared, what really sticks out is the staff is energized. They're excited. They are interested in this opportunity to teach, to train. I know Cassie mentioned right at the top of this that she wanted to be a teacher. How can you be involved? As a pharmacy technician, as a teacher, and that's something that I say often, you don't typically wake up and say, I want to be a pharmacy technician and also teach. That's something that I think these types of programs can really give an organization is that formal opportunity to engage your staff, your lead trainers, your principal trainers, your preceptors, whatever you call them. Having a program like this allows those individuals to shine with their unique skill set. And then it's really on the organizations to create a ladder or a lattice or some career development model that can appropriately reward these technicians with additional compensation, additional responsibilities, and be able to continue to foster that idea that, yes, I am a pharmacy technician and I'm also an educator. I am also a leader. And that's something that, again, I want to kind of conclude us with just reminding everybody, everyone on this call is a pharmacy technician. And that's something that very much impresses me when I talk to our leadership teams. Again, working through our career development model, the majority of the individuals in that committee were pharmacy technicians. And I think it's very important that, again, when organizations go down these pathways, they ensure that they're engaging their pharmacy technicians. This is not a pharmacist or a leadership problem. This is a pharmacy profession problem. And it's important that you engage and involve your pharmacy technicians. So again, I know having worked with these fine individuals over the past seven years that this is only going to continue to grow. This is only going to continue to expand. And I'm excited to see where the future brings us. So with that, you know, I just want to give everybody thanks for joining me today. I'm definitely going to thank my fantastic co-host, Brad. So thank you so much, Brad. Thank you, Matt. It's been a privilege to be a part of this, be a part of the program, be a part of an excellent team at Mayo Clinic. That's awesome. And definitely want to thank you guys both for your feedback. So first off, thank you, Jamie. Yes, thank you. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to share my experience. Awesome. And thank you so much, Cassie. Yes, thank you. It's a great opportunity to brag about the pharmacy technicians and what we can do and the opportunities that are out there for us. So thank you. Well, all right. If you haven't before, I'd encourage you all to check out the Pharmacy Technician Society, TPS, a new membership home for pharmacy technicians. Pharmacy Technician resources can be found at www.farmtechsociety.org. Member exclusive offerings include advanced pharmacy technician toolkits, resume CV resources, monthly technician newsletters, and forums such as the TPS Connect community, where you can exchange ideas and post questions with your peers. Thanks again for tuning in for this episode of Technician Topics. And be sure to subscribe to the ASHP official podcast for more episodes. My name is Matthew Rewald, and it's been a pleasure to talk to you all today. Thank you for listening to ASHP official, the Voice of Pharmacists Advancing Healthcare. Be sure to visit ashp.org/podcast to discover more great episodes, access show notes, and download the episode transcript. If you loved the episode and want to hear more, be sure to subscribe, rate, or leave a review. Join us next time on ASHP official. [Music] You
