(upbeat music) Welcome to the Miami D.I. Chronicles podcast. I'm your host, Francois McKinnon from McKinnon Investigative Group. And I'm Oscar Santamaria of Optimum Investigations. We created this podcast with a goal to educate, inform, and entertain aspiring beginner and seasoned professionals in the investigative field. With over 60 years of combined experience, we offer invaluable insights and lessons learned. What we may not have all the answers, our knowledge can certainly benefit anyone interested in this dynamic profession. So sit back, listen, and enjoy these episodes. Please don't forget to like, share, and follow. Welcome back to the show. I'm with Oscar, and renowned I'm all attorney, Jonathan Freeman. Good afternoon, John. Good afternoon. Hey, thank you for being on the show. We know it's a Sunday, and we appreciate you being here. Not a problem. We wanted you to tell the audience, but yourself, and your practice, your locker. Sure. I practice exclusively criminal defense work. I do criminal cases in state and federal court. And I've been practicing for, I believe, a little over 30 years here in South Florida, handle cases in South Florida, actually throughout the whole state of Florida, and the federal cases I handle in Florida, as well as all over the country. I've handled cases up in New York, Connecticut, South Carolina, Texas, some other states. So that's what I've been doing my whole career. Criminal defense, I'm board certified. Been board certified since 2000 as a criminal trial lawyer here in the state of Florida. That's pretty much my background. It's the law, this is Jonathan Friedman. I've had some associates throughout the years and some support staff, but I'm otherwise a solo practitioner, and I do criminal defense. So what was your first job out of law school? First job out of law school. As far as the lawyer is concerned, I was a assistant public defender. I got hired at the public defender's office in Broward County. And then before that, of course, well, I should say everybody may wonder was it my dream and desire to be a defense lawyer, and the truth of the matter is that I really wanted to be a police officer. I wanted to be a special FBI agent. That was really my dream. And so when I went to law school, my goal was to do that. Somehow in the midst of everything, I did a 360 and ended up at the public defender's office, I met a man named Howard Finkelstein who ended up becoming the public defender at Broward County, since retired, but I basically did a 360 and started hanging around the defense lawyers and helping them with their cases. And the four of a long, I was offered a job by them right at high school, right out of law school, rather. So that's where I got my start public defender's office. - So you get to know both sides of the law, right? - Yeah, I was a criminology major, undergraduate, and did a lot of things with police and ride-alongs and that was sort of where I was headed. But again, I got tied into the public defender's office and before long, I was definitely headed towards criminal defense. - Were your parents lawyers? - No. - Neither of my parents are lawyers. Neither of them are lawyers. And in fact, we really didn't have many lawyers in the family at the time I became a lawyer. - Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people these days complained that the criminal justice system isn't fair. I mean, what's your opinion? Is it a fair system? - Well, I think it's a fair system to the extent that. I think a lot of people hear of things on the news and my take on it is nobody really gets off. There's always something behind every case. There's always some sort of punishment. And if somebody does get off, it's generally because they went to trial and it's really the jury system that got them off. They didn't feel the state or the prosecution proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. In that sense, it's really the jury systems. Was it fair? I think the system is fair. Oh, you got to present your facts. You got to present your defense. The state presents their case. And at the end of the day, it's left to a jury didn't cite. In that respect, I think it is. I think it's fair. - Do you think that AI is going to replace any part of the legal system? Maybe juries, paralegals, law clerks, that type of thing? - I don't think it's ever going to replace juries. There's already a push now and there's a movement of AI coming into for lawyers, for legal research. There's a bunch of companies out there now that are going to start to find them on the internet. And I know West Law, I was recently at a conference actually over the weekend before today, Friday and Saturday, where they were discussing, West Law has a new feature, believe it or not, where you can actually just kind of tighten, almost like a natural query. But you can basically correspond in natural language and it will give you back a case law and things like that. So that's sort of an AI, I think, feature. But I do know that you can put a motion into an AI application, like a big long motion for instance that you need yet. And you can ask it to summarize it. You could ask it to kind of pick out the points that you need. And I've actually started using it. So it cuts down on time. So yeah, I think AI is coming into the industry, into the legal fields, for sure. But it's not going to replace juries, I can't imagine. What about your legal research team? Do you think that'll be replaced? It almost seems like it already might be. - Yeah, you still need somebody to conduct the research and do the AI type of thing and look things up. And then ultimately you gotta write notions in memorandum. So there is that human touch that. I don't know if that could be replaced. AI is amazing. So it's really in its infancy. I would imagine in a few years, it's who knows? Whoever would think that we'd have iPhones. One of these little things in our hands that basically can control our whole lives. I didn't think that back when I started 30 years ago. I don't think we had, well there were computers, but not like today. - Now I remember watching Star Trek and the little communicators, and that's basically what our own burnouts. - Exactly. - It's amazing, it really is. So yeah, I think it's just a matter of time, but who knows what will happen in the future? - Donald, which one of the case comes back to you the most, one of the memorable cases that you can discuss with us? - God, I have so many memorable cases. As I get older, I forget these cases. After I could think about them and they all come back. I've had so many different memorable cases and you wanna hear about funny cases, you wanna hear from these cases. - Everybody needs to laugh, it's the best medicine. - This episode of Miami PI Chronicles podcast is brought to you by Law Office of Diana Santa Maria, Personal Injury and Medical Malpractice Attorney for free consultation, call 1-800-668-2156. For all of your investigative and security needs, you can visit the Styshops in Fort Lauderdale or go online at www.styshops.com. Beached Paradise Experience in South Florida, visit Ocean Manor Beach Hotel and unrivaled Fort Lauderdale Beach Resort for families, couples, and beach lebbers to life. For more information, please call 1-800-995-0444. - I remember having a case where I represented a girl who was charged with prostitution. She was like an escort and the city, a local city down here was basically going on, I think it was called Backpage Back Then and they were going on finding escorts and basically inviting them into the city. When they didn't live in the city and they were setting up the sting operation in a local hotel in their city, but some of these girls were from out of the county even, but today we're inviting them and soliciting them into the city and the rooms were all wired up. And this one, my one client who got a call, of course she came over and it was all on video and the undercover detective who was sort of the John working this, he basically started telling her to get undressed and at the end of the day, I mean, she was practically, she was all undressed and nude and then she started to approach him and started to touch him and I mean, it was almost like a pornographic movie, which at that point I didn't think they could do that. And anyway, so what happened is he had a takedown signal, I guess, 'cause there was a bunch of officers in a joining room and when it was just at the point where like, it was all gonna happen and it did the takedown signal and they came in and arrested her and she got arrested and charged, of course, but at the end of the day, I'm looking at this and I was showing it to all my friends because that are lawyers, of course, showing the video 'cause it was sort of like, look at this girl, she's getting undressed, the cops standing are naked and he's practically, his clothes are coming off and he's really believing in this job. Yeah, I was kind of like, you know, I wonder if his wife knows what he does, undercover details, how he's working those details. I mean, it was just, and then a lawyer suggested to me, that's egregious and sure enough, after I started looking at the research, I filed a motion to dismiss based on a egregious police conduct and I got it set for hearing and it came before the judge and they played the video or I played the video and had the cop on the stand and I was questioning of about every move I kept stopping the video and I said, well, I couldn't make the arrest when you gave her the money. I mean, it was sort of like-- Yeah, he was enjoying it quite a bit. Yeah, so the money was exchanged at the beginning, well, why didn't you make the arrest then? Why didn't you do the takedown? And he kept saying, well, it was officer safety and then he had her go in the bathroom, she removed all her clothes, she came out, well, why didn't you make the signal at that point? Certainly, the crime has been committed, the crime was committed when you gave her the money. Well, I didn't wanna compromise my safety and then it kept going and going and then it's response to all the questions or my safety and this and that. And anyway, the judge who presided over this case and there's a whole story to that, but we can, we'll skip that part, but he ended up dismissing the case based on a egregious police conduct, but that's sort of a memorable case I had, but I've had so many handled murder cases, rape cases, gang cases, drug cases, wire fraud cases, I've handled over a hundred trials, I've tried over a hundred cases. - You get to see everything at that point. - Absolutely. - You and I worked on big narco traffic in cases years ago. I had to interview this guy at jail, you and I think we had like four clients at the same time, different clients at the same time at jail, so we'd write it up together and I would do my thing, you would do your thing. - Yeah. - And I thought some of the stories that I heard from these guys are unbelievable. - Yeah. - That's the kind of why you do it every day, the criminal cases I do, I'm not fine, but you have this all underneath. - You remember? - Actually, it don't seem to care about people, they just want money. - Yeah. - I don't know if you remember this, Francois, but remember the case we handled where we were told in the jail that they were involved with drugs, it was a big drug conspiracy case and they told us they had buried thousands of dollars in the backyard at the home. Remember that? I think we were the ones who disclosed that to the government, perhaps, to help the client and I guess they started digging up the backyard. I guess drug dealers sometimes, their money. But also, there was questions of homicide and they started telling us at a place somewhere in Palm Beach that people were buried there. I think that's, it was, I don't think it was money, I think it was bodies. - There was another case with money. - Yeah, I remember the one with the bodies, but there was definitely that money case. - The big case, we handled, kind of want to mention names, to keep everything anonymous, protect you innocent. - Yeah, we've had so many cases. - You were a phenomenal investigator. We had one case, I don't know if you remember, our client was out on bond, but he was getting phone calls from an inmate in the jail. The guy inside the jail basically told, made it like ex-scolpating statements to our client. You didn't do anything, I did it all and we got to hold it at take. We were able to retrieve it and we ended up, I think we got the case dropped on a major, major. - They completely let it go, I remember that case, yeah. That was a lot of work I had to get the tapes from the jails, the conversations, the phone number, all the phone records, and also video tapes. Remember the video tape I was able to get, after the fact there were some video tapes, some quads that I was able to pull and see, and on the video tape you could see that, the guy we represented, our client was not doing anything. You didn't have any parties. - Yeah, I remember that case, that was a lot of work, but the guy walked, so they walked. - Yeah, yeah, good times. - Jonathan, you see, I'm sure a lot of violent images, videos, firsthand knowledge of how prevalent crime is. Do you have a level of paranoia, because you just see, dance in humanity to man? - Does that keep you open, Martin? - Do you think you look over your shoulder when you're at a gas station, or coming home, these transitional spaces at a restaurant? I've been briefed on all of these different crimes. Do you have a level of paranoia, a lot of police officers have their head on a swivel? - Yeah, I mean, I don't think I lose sleep at night, but I think in my day-to-day activity, I'm paranoid sometimes going into certain areas, and I know there's been so many crimes, or if I kept track from the beginning of my practice on a map of out Florida and put a little tack, every place where there was a crime that I represented somebody, it would probably be just filled up with little tack. I always think of that, but yeah, definitely when it comes to anything, even it's minor is not like a DUI. I know, 'cause I've handled dozens and dozens and dozens of cases that are DUI cases, that if you have the order of alcohol on your breath, doesn't matter really how you're driving. Somebody hits you. Police officer gets there and he detects an odor of any sort. You go in the jail, and a lot of people who aren't lawyers say, "Well, if I only have one beer, I'm not gonna get arrested." And I know different. I know that's, yeah, you will get arrested. The cops smell alcohol on your breath, it doesn't matter. So yeah, does that make me a little paranoid? Sure it does. Things like that, you always tell my son if he goes somewhere, this and that, and he always tells me, "Dad, come on." And he doesn't have the experience that I've had over the last 30 years of seeing these things. They're young and together at that age, but they don't know better. A lot of the time, the thing they know everything. Have you ever been afraid of one of your clients, how to get a restraining order against one of them? I'd never had that happen, and people ask me that all the time. Aren't you afraid? And I'm like, "Well, I'm descending these guys." They love me, but I really don't get afraid. I had one client years ago who he was actually, he was very vocal, and I think he had a radio show of some sort, and he used to talk about me in particular and things like that. Although I wasn't really afraid of him, but I was just afraid of what he would say. He said some outlandish thing. In fact, he was an entertainer. He used to make music and songs, and after we went to trial on a case, unfortunately, he lost, he did a little time. He actually recorded a professional song about the prosecutor, and I was always hesitant. He told me to give it to the prosecutor, but I just never did, and I don't even think I told the prosecutor. I think not until after he retired. Well-respected prosecutor down here, and I saw him at one point, and I think I told him, I'm like, "Hey, remember that guy?" And he wrote a song about you, but I never sent him the tape. I wonder if I even stole one of that tape. I'd love to find it, 'cause it was really funny. Yeah, and it was about the case, so it talked about his case and how the prosecutor handled it, and it was funny. Was there any movie or television show that you really inspired? And I remember my sister, she's a lawyer, only years ago that she watched this movie from Al Pacino. I think it was injustice for all. I see that one, and that's when she decided I don't want to be a criminal lawyer. The movies that inspired you? I know the movie well, it watched it. There's some really great scenes in the movie, but the movie that comes to mind that I think really depicts what I do, and it's real. To some extent, a greater extent than most of these movies is The Lincoln Lawyer. I've never seen that movie. Yeah, that movie, just in the beginning, it gave me goosebumps, and the lawyer comes in to the courtroom and he talks with the bailiffs about going to another courtroom or something and coming. That is really what happens. It was so real. I love that movie. Not to mention I was driving a Lincoln, I think, when that movie came out. (laughs) So my friends all used to call me a Lincoln Lawyer. Go to law, all that other. I wanted to ask you, what kind of things do you like to do when you're not working? I know you work a lot and you have a family, but for the other things that you like to do, I know you play the guitar very well. I do, I play guitar. And in fact, I learned guitar after I graduated law school while I was studying for the bar, because bar prep is so tedious and you can't sit there. For hours, you got to take a break. So at the time, my brother actually was playing guitar. He gave me a guitar, an acoustic guitar. So every, the 20, 30 minutes from after studying for the bar exam, I would pick up the guitar and try to learn a chord. And before long, I learned a few chords and, but didn't take long after that. And that's how I started playing guitar. So, and now I enjoy playing. It's a nice break. Come home from a stressful day. I used to have a guitar in my office, believe it or not. I had one in all my office and what I do lately, because all my friends, you know, know I play, we make up songs that have to do with some of the cases we've handled. There are just acoustical melodies that are like almost like folk songs and everybody joins in and throws in lines after I start the song. And now let's say this and then I'll play it again. And some of them have recorded some of them. I don't even know where they're at, but they're just about cases we've had and they're funny. So we all laugh about it. We're top three guitarists of all time, top three. Probably Eddie Van Halen. I like Neil Young, you know. And hmm, that's tough. I mean, there's so many good guitars down there. God, what's his name? On this, I'm Manuel. I don't know if you know him. Yeah, if you Google him or put him in YouTube, he's amazing. He finger picks like just an amazing guitar player. Yeah, in your favorite rock and roll band. Rush, all of them. Stairwood, yeah, Rush. Yeah. So. Well, Francois, do you have anything else? I think it covers the Jonathan. And the commute tells us how people can reach you to get a consultation with a fan. So I could be reached at my office number is 954-713-2820. That is my email address. My email is jfreidmanlawfirm@gmail.com. It's J, letter J, Friedman, F-R-I-E-D-A-N law firm. All one word, jfreidmanlawfirm@gmail.com. Excellent. Thank you so much for being on the show. And we'd love to have you again for a special guest, Jonathan Friedman. Well, thank you. Thanks again to our guest, Jonathan Friedman. And if you'd like to send us a comment or questions, please do so at MiamiPI Chronicles at gmail.com. And thanks a lot for listening. This episode of MiamiPI Chronicles podcast is brought to you by Law Office of Diana Santa Maria, Personal Injury and Medical Malpractice Attorney. For free consultation, call 1-800-668-2156. For all of your investigative and security needs, you can visit the spy shops in Fort Lauderdale or go online at www.stishops.com. For a cheap beach paradise experience in South Florida, visit Ocean Manor Beach Hotel, an unrivaled Fort Lauderdale beach resort for families, couples, and beach lovers to like. For more information, please call 1-800-995-0444.
