Join me as I sit down with my good friend, Pastor Jackson Murphy. We discuss what Scripture says about being intentional with our habits and why it all matters to God.
Tribe, A Jesus Revival
S4 E4: Intentionality + Habits.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the tribe podcast. I am so excited to share our guest speaker with y'all today. Jackson Murphy is the campus pastor at our church. He also happens to be married to one of my very best friends and the Murphy's are just a really, really special family to us. So Jackson, I know you have been patiently waiting to be a part of this podcast. Thank you so much for being here today. I am so excited for our listeners to hear from you. I am so excited and I don't even think I've told you this but I have been counting down the day. I really, I think everyone that I love has been on this podcast and so now for it to be my day, I'm super pumped. We're celebrating. I love it. Okay, so today we are talking about the power of our habits and how just being intentional with our time and the time that God has given to us, it plays into that. So to kind of get us started and kicked off here, Jackson, let's dig into scripture and just talk about what God says about our intentionality and having healthy habits. Yeah, I mean, I think there's so much overlap in scripture, the way that God explains in the Bible what habits are intentionality, planning, thinking about what you're going to do. And I mean, especially in Proverbs, just the theme of discipline and planting is throughout the entire book. So I think one of the biggest ways that habits really comes out in the gospel is its understanding. And I'll use this as an example. When I think about what are the most important things in my life that I eventually want to be known for? I mean, it's things like it's like a godly leader, a loving husband, whoever's listening to this. Like there's things that you think of that you want your legacy to be, okay, anything that is worthwhile in this life, it is not going to be achieved by the end of the day. It's not going to be achieved by the end of this week or even by the end of the year. So what you do then is you have to look to the Bible and the Bible teaches discipline habits. You basically have to backtrack and figure out then what do I need to do this week, this month? What do I need to do today to eventually get that thing that I long for the most? And I want to share this is one of my favorite examples. And when I read this several years ago, I think it emphasized the importance of habits in my life and the ways that I needed to build them, it's an Old Testament, a guy named Daniel. And to make the long story short, Daniel was living in this foreign country. The king made a decree that no one can worship the one true god, but you actually have to bow down to meet the king. Daniel, this young boy decides, I'm not going to do that. I actually am going to stick to my guns and worship the one true god. He was not, he was thrown in the lines then, God rescued him. And you might ask yourself, how does Daniel get that kind of faith where it's unwavering? Like the king makes this decree and he says, "No, I'm sticking to this." And the answer, I think it is, it's in Daniel 6'10 where it says, "But when Daniel learned that the law had been signed, he went home, he knelt down as usual in his upstairs room. And with its windows open toward Jerusalem, he prayed three times a day just as he had always done." You see, like, Daniel, he had the habit formation in his life and oftentimes we can't see what goes on behind the curtain, but the way that I understand how do we achieve the most important things in life, it's like Daniel, it's looking at what are the things that I can actually start doing every single day to get to the place that God desires me to go. So it's again, I mean, that's one example, it's throughout the whole Bible, but I think God is, it's important, there's the intentionality and the habits of what we do every day. That's so good, just as he had done every day, I mean, that's where you hear, that's the pattern, that's so powerful, I love that example. A verse that I always go back to, and this has been like, really ever since my teenage years, which, you know, I just had a birthday and we won't mention my age, but Romans 12 verse 2 says, "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is, his good pleasing and perfect will." And when I think about having habits, like, obviously we're not talking about adopting a worldly mindset of habits, right? There are a million things that we could talk about in that category, scrolling on social media, reality TV, you know, all the world issues and just getting caught up in that, but those worldly patterns don't bear good fruit. And when you talk about the legacy that you want to leave, you know, and being intentional when having habits put in place, that's how we leave a God legacy, right? So let's take a little bit more into just like the things that are going to last for eternity. So I want you to tell our listeners a little bit about what habits you've put into place in your daily life and just how that's impacted your family and your own personal faith journey and all of that. Yeah. I've really tried to build habits into every category of my life. And when I say category, there's basically--so there's six things that I just wrote down. These are really just areas of my life that I view with intentionality, either once a month, once a quarter, but it's my spiritual life, emotional life, social life, so relationships, vocational life, my work life, physical and financial. And so looking at those six categories then, I have to just understand that it's the whole Roman seven principle where Paul is writing and he explains everything that I want to do, I struggle to do, and everything that seems so easy, like that's the stuff that's hard to do. It's the reason that discipline is important. And just to be honest, and I think everyone listeners would say the same thing, if you wake up every single day of your life and you just live life on autopilot, you're not going to get to where you eventually want to go. And so what you have to look at is whether it's your physical life, vocational life, relational life, what are the things that I'm actually going to do today to get there? Like I hope that in 10 years from now, I have a better marriage with my wife than I do today. Yeah. Now in order to do that though, that I actually have to prioritize things like date night, asking deep thoughtful questions, spending that quality time together. Like these things don't just happen by accident. And I think that for me personally, when I look at the habits I've implemented in my life, I could give you examples in all six of those areas. And the reason is what I've found, and I think for some people, it might be easier to almost like segment off different parts of your life. I've found that the best version of me is when every area of my life is healthy and growing and being challenged. And so it's just looking across the whole board of everything that makes me, me. We have so many different parts of us that make us human. It's our relationship with God, with other people, with the way that we work, with the way that we handle our money, with the way that we steward our bodies. Like every part I really do think is woven and connected because that's how God made it. And so you just have to be intentional about breaking it down and looking across everything that makes me mean. How can I steward this to the best of my ability? Wow that's so good. I'm like, can you just keep going and just tell me more? That's awesome. And one of the cool things for us, like me and Nick, being such good friends with you guys is that we don't necessarily see like the daily disciplines, like what you're talking about, how you go through the categories, if you have your quiet time and just habits that you put into place, but we get to see the fruit that it bears, like we get to be observers of your greatness and not just talking about on the platform. Of course, we love watching you, you know, spread the gospel and just be on fire for Jesus, but also in your marriage and in your friendships. And I think that's what scripture means when in Matthew, we read about bearing good fruit. Like I don't know any other way to say it, like if your life is not bearing good fruit, something needs adjusted, right? Like something is out of balance and changes need to be made. And as we fixed our eyes on Jesus, who we know is the author and the perfecter of our lives. Like as we do that, we're naturally going to want to start taking steps, right, for those daily disciplines. It's a part of the process and then slowly we start to see changes in our heart and just our habits that are forming and the way that we love people. So that's good. I love that. Okay. Talk about your childhood and just kind of the way that your mom and dad who you know I adore, how they had habits in place for you and your brothers and like big picture how that impacted you in your own journey. Yeah. When I was thinking about this one, I think more than anything, what my parents did and what a lot of parents do, I think they helped shape the direction of your habits. Everyone has habits and I shared this. This was probably a couple of years ago, but I found this when I was giving a teaching on habits at our church and it was the American psychologist, they published an article several years ago and they explained that 95% of what we do is driven by automatic, non-conscious mental processes. Wow. Like think about that, 95% of what we do, like that gives even a deeper meaning to creatures that have it. But if you actually think about the course of your day, like when you wake up, you probably have the same routine. Yeah. At least I do. I do too. And then you get to work and you generally, depending on the day, you have the same kind of flow throughout your day. You have the same afternoon, evening routine, especially if you have kids, like 95% of your day is driven by habits, so I think that for me, like when I was young and in my parents home, they recognize that. And so what they did is they tried to shape what are the most healthy habits that we can be forming. And it was things like prioritizing family dinners. I've shared this before, but I obviously have grown up in the home of a pastor, pastor Ken, who leaves our church, is my dad, I'm his oldest son. And never once did I ever feel like the church was more important than my relationship with him. And when I think back about the reason I feel that I know it was intentionality, and now that, I mean, the fact that we're weeks away from having our own first child and my son, I know that while there's so many important things in life that I want my legacy to be known for, when it comes to shaping the habits of your children, I really don't know that there's anything more important you'll ever do. Yeah. And I know that there's a lot of parents listening to this, and I just, I would just emphasize the important role that you have in shaping the direction of what they do, what they say, the way that they think, the way that they communicate with their peers, like you have an invaluable role, and really just molding them at such a young age. So true. I literally got the chills when you said my son, like I just can't even. It's crazy. It's so soon. I love that. And you're right. It starts when your kids are young. You begin to teach in the way, and I believe the greatest way that we do this, and I know your parents did this, was they lived it out, like they lived their faith out, you know? And so that was normal, like, you didn't just go to church. We don't just take our kids to church. We get involved. We serve, and we are openly reading our Bibles and talking about scripture at home, like we have Bible studies, like my kids, their friends, their core group of friends are the kids of other parents that we're doing life with, right? We meet, we have Bible study, the kids play, and we study God's word, and basically what we're doing is we're normalizing, living out our faith, and while it's going to look different in every home, for us, like our friends are chasing Jesus, and that's at the core of a tribe and who you choose to surround yourself with, so. And please don't hear me say that, you know, me and my friends are perfect in any way, but we're seeking Jesus above everything else, and that is what our kids are going to remember when they grow up. So leading into tribe, Jackson, how has having a tribe impacted you and live? I mean, I think it's been everything. I mean, it's one of the foundational principles of what we believe is Christians, like, God designed us to live life and community, and with each other, and that isolation is from the enemy. And so when you think about the importance that your tribe or community can play, we all have blind spots. Like, there's things in my life that I've given people permission to speak into it and call out when they see certain things. And like, if you don't, if you don't think you have a blind spot, that is your blind spot. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like we've, like, looking back at the course of my ministry, my relationships, I know that there were seasons, things didn't go well, and it was because I was not self-aware, and I didn't see either the way that I was leading or the way that I was speaking, and so there's other people that have had to see that and to call that out in me. Now, I think it's important, though, because you can't take that criticism from everybody. Yeah. Right? You have to be living in the right community, and you have to empower the right group of friends and give them the authority to be able to speak that into you. When it comes to having a tribe and building habits, it's like, those two concepts are everything together. Yeah. And I think one of the most important things you can do when you're trying to build habits is to evaluate your environment. Like look at the people that you're surrounding yourself with. Look at the people that, what's important to them? Yeah. What direction are they trying to shape your life in? And to be honest, when it comes to habit formation and the community you're in, you're almost always making it more difficult or easier on yourself. Yes. There's really not a whole lot of, like, neutral environments you can surround yourself with. So when you look at your community or your group of friends, if you're wanting to love Jesus more, they're either making that easier or more difficult for you. And when you just think about habits, I think that's a huge, huge piece of it. Wow. That's, I mean, essentially what I've been saying since I started this, but you said it so much better than me. So thank you. I know the listeners are going to love this. So basically when we're in our seasons in the Valley, I don't even know how you can possibly get through those times without other people. I agree. I mean, it just, I don't want to say impossible because anything is possible with God. But if you have no one, you know, that you can look left or right and like that will sometimes physically lift you up and carry you out of the pit, like I think of our seasons in the Valley, it, we wouldn't have been able to walk it out, you know, without our people. And sometimes when we're in the Valley, what's happening is God is calling us to walk out a process. The way we do that well is by intentionally surrounding ourselves with friends that love Jesus. And like you said, we were created by a communal God who never, ever created us to do life on our own. So it serves us well to love and to pour into our tribe, especially the people that we really believe that God has entrusted us because not always, but oftentimes they will be the vessels that God uses to heal our hearts and to keep us on the path that he's set out for us. And really the same is true for mountaintop moments and valleys like when I'm having the best day or week or month of my life, I have friends to celebrate with me, but also that accountability of keeping me humble in the process, you know, celebrating on the mountaintops and then mourning in the valleys and having those people. Okay. So turning a corner in our conversation, this is something that is talked about on the platform quite a bit. You know how excited I get about this topic, how does having boundaries in your life protect the best of who you are, both within and then outside of your tribe? Yeah, I think, I think having healthy boundaries and habits, they really do go hand in hand. And the reason I say that is because I'll go back to the very thing, the thing that we said at the very beginning, habits are important because they help you achieve the most important things in your life. I know to achieve the most important things in my life, I'm going to have to say no to other things. There's just not enough time in a day, there's not enough time in a lifetime to be all things to all people. And so I think part of the advice that I would give someone is asking how do boundaries and habits go together, you have to get comfortable with saying no. You have to realize that it's okay to say no, that you might not be able to go out to dinner on Tuesday, and that you don't need to necessarily give excuse or reason or some long explanation, like when I think about, and this is a ways away, but when I think about 30 years from now, I want to be the best pastor I can be, the best husband that I can be, and the best dad that I can be. And really, outside of that, I think that there's a lot, there's a pretty big drop-off in terms of what are the things that are important to me. And so because of that, if I'm continually making decisions that aren't adding value to one of those areas, I probably do need to implement some sort of healthy boundary to protect what I want most. That's good. And so I think just looking at the course of your life, recognize that it's okay to say no at times. I came across this definition of success a few weeks ago. I'd never heard this before. Obviously, success, there's a lot of different ways to interpret it. And one person he said, "I want the people who know me the best to love and respect me the most." Wow. It's going to take boundaries to get there. Yes. It just is. You're not going to be able to live your normal life and be doing everything at all times and going to every party and event, like in order to achieve that definition of success, you are going to have to have boundaries and make the habit of picking and choosing what areas of life are you going to invest yourself in? That's so good. Wow. You know, when Liv and I sat down and we had read the good boundaries and good bias together and we're just really like processing it through like a biblical lens, I was just blown away by how time and time again, Lisa and Jim and everybody that was a part of writing that book, they were talking about how boundary Jesus was. And for me, and I know you guys live your life this way too, like that means so much because we need to live our lives in the same way. It's like let your yes be yes, let your no be no. Like you said, we don't always have to give like an explanation of that, but it's how we protect the best of who we are in all scenarios. So okay, two more things as we wrap up. The first is what would you say to someone who is listening to this and for whatever reason, maybe this idea of intentionality and building new habits into their lives just feels unachievable. Yeah. I would say it probably feels unachievable because it's supposed to be hard. Going back to what we said at the very beginning about discipline, there's a reason that habits are necessary in my life and your life and everyone who's listening, it's because it's difficult to do some of those things and I would just say the goal here is what we're talking about, it's progress, it's not perfection and I've shared this before but I think when it comes to building habits, if we can move out of the trying mindset and into the training mindset, it would help us tremendously and what I mean by that is I think sometimes when we're trying to implement new habits in our minds, we say I'm trying, I'm trying this, I'm trying that, I haven't gotten it yet. Like I would challenge you to think you're actually you're training part of what you're going to experience. It is failure. Yeah. Being uncomfortable, it is doing hard things, there's a, so this is super popular right now, I don't know, I've looked into it a little bit, I don't know if you've, like the whole cold plunge therapy. Oh my word, I just don't know if I can get on the word. I don't, I'm not ready to take this step yet but I've been fascinated by it because there's a lot of people that I know that have gotten into it and started it and I was doing research and I thought it was interesting. There's obviously physical benefits, like it helps muscles and different things but I'm not a professional athlete, that's not super important to me. The reason that it's becoming so popular is people are saying it's actually like the mental, like if you have to wake up every day and you have to get in a 40 degree water, that mentally trains you, like you're ready to take on your day. Wow. And it's just interesting to think that that is like by doing that, again, I think when you look at the course of every aspect of your life, if you start being disciplined somewhere, it'll start bleeding into other areas. And so for the person who is trying to implement these new, healthy habits and they feel like it, it's unachievable, I would, I would say just remind yourself you're, you're training. You're going to fail and one, one just super practical piece of advice is so for example, if you're, if one of your goals or your habits is you want to start reading more, there's going to be days where you're going to feel like you want to pick up a book and start reading. There's going to be days where you don't. On the days that you don't, pick up the book and just read one page. Yeah. And you might say, that's, that's not going to do anything. Like what, what is, what is one page? That's not even going to get me close to a chapter. But what you're doing is again, I'm going back to it. It's not the actual goal itself, it's you're training yourself mentally. You are a reader. This is a path that you're on and even days when you don't feel like it, if you can go to the gym for 10 minutes, if you can read one page, if you can do one thing, you're going to keep moving in the right direction. That is so good. As you're talking about this, I'm thinking about like when Liv was training for the marathon, you know, just watching her go out and put those miles in and staying for me when I was training for mine, like I did not go out and run 26 miles right off the bat. It was making sacrifices, changing my eating habits, making sure my family was on board, right? Like Nick was going to be home. Not a baby at the time, like just being so intentional and knowing that I'm not going to be able to run a marathon tomorrow, but this is what I'm training for. And I was a little delusional by the end. I was like catching caterpillars like on the way home for my 20 mile runs, holding them alive in my hand for my kids, like it's crazy. But you take those little steps, it's like reading one page every day is a habit. It's just, this is who I am and this is what I do, you know? I want to be healthy. I want to do this, fill in the blank and then you start taking those steps. Yeah. I mean, anyone that's run a marathon, you have my full respect. I've run a half marathon and I thought about turning around and going back to the start, there's not a chance. Never say never. Alright. We'll see. Okay. We'll see. I love it. You know, we live in this world where it's just like this constant state of busyness and distraction and that's probably one of the biggest challenges, I would say, for like me and even some of the moms that I'm doing life with is just kind of battling that and remembering like God created us to rest that we don't have to be busy all the time. It's not all about our to do list and sometimes we just need somebody else to remind us like slow down, start prioritizing the things that you are saying are important to you. You know, like take a deep breath, pause, evaluate, make sure God's the main thing because I truly believe that if we have God in his proper place than like you were saying, everything just trickles down from that. And so evaluating that and having people that will hold us accountable because it serves us well to keep the main thing, the main thing and you know, those small steps compounded over time. That's what leads to big results and starting small, there's nothing wrong with starting small. They say you'll see this with your baby boy. You have to crawl before you can walk and then walk before you can run, right? So it's just a process and then what happens, at least in my own life, I look back to just a few years ago and I woke up one day and I remember just thinking like, wow, I hardly even recognize like my old self, you know, because God has just done such a work in my life and my eyes have been opened and now this is the path that I'm on and he's made that abundantly clear. And I think you can apply that to anything that you want to start doing. So okay, here's the last thing. What verse or verses of scripture, do you go back to when you want to be encouraged and just reminded of God's goodness and his faithfulness on the journey of life? It's a great question. So I have two things to share. One is this is something I've observed about God's faithfulness that I've never picked it up to this degree. So one of the things that Olivia and my wife, who you're friends with, one of the things we're doing is we started in January. It's a two year Bible reading plan. So you actually get to go through it a little bit slower and we really enjoyed it so far. We're making our way through the beginning of the Old Testament. It's the whole Exodus, God's leading his people out of Egypt. They're complaining. They're grumbling. I've lost track of the amount of times that God reminded his people and it's literally a quote on the Lord that brought you out of Egypt. Like if you actually pay attention to how many times that comes up over the course of a few books in the Old Testament, it's unbelievable. Like again and again and again. He says it the same way every time. It's the same reminder, I am the Lord that brought you out of Egypt. I think everyone that's listening to this, it wasn't a geographical location, but God's brought you out of somewhere. And whenever you want to reflect on God's faithfulness and where you're at today compared to where you've been, I think just remind yourself what is your Egypt and what was that process of him bringing you out. And whenever you intentionally reflect on that, I think it's just, it's so helpful to remember the character of our God that he, I mean he is faithful. You're going to walk through seasons that are difficult and that are tough and you're going to ask questions why, but if you can remember that he's the God that brought you out of whatever your situation was, that will give you everything you need to keep moving forward. So good. Yeah. And then one other thing, as far as things that remind me of his faithfulness, this is a passage in Hebrews 12. And I think with us kind of starting to wind down, this is kind of just a cool thing to end with. Yeah. So the writer of Hebrews is explaining the importance of discipline. And it's Hebrews 12 versus 11 to 13, it says no discipline is enjoyable while it's happening. We've talked all about that today. It's painful, but afterward there will be a peaceful harvest of right living for those who are trained in this way. And then he says, so take a new grip with your tired hands and strengthen your weak knees, mark out a straight path for your feet so that those who are weak and lame will not fall but become strong. And I just know that there's people listening today, that's exactly what God would say to you. Like if you feel like you've struggled with this whole theme of habits and discipline and it's been hard, he would say get, I mean, get back on your horse. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's what he says. He says, take a new grip with your tired hands and strengthen your weak knees. God has more for you and you just got to walk the journey. Wow. That's so good. You know, this whole concept of like habits and putting it in a place like immediately, just knowing you and the way that you live your life. I was like, okay, I'm asking Jackson, like this is going to, I want these younger kids to hear, you know, what you have to say about it. And I hope what's coming through for our listeners today is that true spiritual growth and change is possible. If you are willing to arrange your lives, essentially, you know, the way that God would call us to, we have God first and then everything trickles down from there. So I just love it all so much and I'm glad you ended with that verse, Jackson. Thank you so much for spending a little time here with me today for encouraging our listeners. You know, y'all are just so special to us and we consider ourselves not only to be blessed to do life alongside you and live, but also better because of it. We are really looking forward to raising our kids by your side and meeting baby Murphy next month. Y'all are just the best and we love you guys so much. I love it. Thanks for having me. And we'll do it again soon. Hey, let's make heaven crowded. I'm praying for y'all and I'll see you next week