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The final piece of the puzzle, as they say, Brian, when talking about linebackers and breaking down the position group, is the breakouts who has an opportunity to be a breakout player at the linebacker position. Lots of new faces, lots of new positions. As you mentioned at the top, no returning starters at linebacker in the position that they are playing. So who could break out from this group? It could be a long list. It could be a short list, depending on how you look at it. Whoever's leading the team in tackles is going to be a new person leading the team in tackles. Who is that breakout star going to be? As a reminder to those who may be joining us for the first time, first of all, welcome. When we talk about breakouts, there's a couple of different levels of breakout. We have the didn't play at all, is going to break out into a rotational type of player. You've got a rotational type of player that's going to break out into a really, really good starter, and then you've got a breakout player that maybe was a starter and then could break out into a national star type of person. And then, of course, you could always leapfrog one to the next or skip a spot or whatever. But those are kind of the levels that we talk about when we're talking about breakouts, Brian. Prize picks is America's number one daily fantasy sports app with over 5 million active members. Six is the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports. Unlike other apps, on prize picks, it's just you against the numbers. All you do is pick more or less on two to six players' stat projections and watch the winnings roll in, baby. Get in on the daily action with your friends and become part of the prize picks community today. Get in on all the excitement and win up to a hundred times your cash with the summer games on prize picks. 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That's indeed.com/bluewire, terms and conditions apply. To hire, you need Indeed. Yeah, I'm going to throw a caveat in here and a little asterisk for linebackers because part of the breakout, the first part of the break that you talk about to me is also special teams. Oh, okay. I like that. And so I'm going to go with that one too. But let's talk about guys that can end up becoming like impact players. Jack Kaiser is the first one that I look at and say this is a guy that's got a chance to be a breakout player, production wise. I don't think Jack Kaiser becoming a breakout player on the field is going to shock a lot of people nationally because he actually gets a lot of love. I mean, he's ranked by some as a top 10 linebacker in the country actually. Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, wow. I actually think Lindy's had him. Yeah, Lindy's has him as the number seven outside line back returning linebacker in the country. No kidding. Well, I mean, again, he's played a ton of football. He's made a lot of times. He tied for the team lead in solo tackles last year, but JD Bertrand is true with a lot less than some kid that's never played before. And I think there's just an assumption that he's going to move inside and be fine. And I hope that they're right on that. So the perception is going to be there, but the production is the breakout that I see from Jack Kaiser. If Jack is as good as I hope he can be this year, I think he's going to have the best world numbers we've seen since JD back in 2021. And if you remember that season, that was the first year under Marcus Freeman. That was quite an interesting off season when we talk about, you know, people not freaking out when guys get hurt. If you remember correctly, I remember he was the star of the office in that year. He was going to be a study at a great spring, super high expectations. He goes down Shane Simon was having a horrible fall camp. He's struggling. And who emerges from that group that nobody really expected JD Bertrand and JD goes out that year playing in Marcus Freeman's defense has a hundred and one total tackle 63 solo tackles, which was the most Notre Dame it had since Tae Von Coney had 63 in 2018. And before that, you know, Jalen Smith had 69 in 2015 Jalen had 64 in 2014. I had 55 in 2012 and man had 62 in 2011, man had 64 in 2010, 66 by Kyle McCarthy in 2009. So JD Bertrand's one season at will linebacker was very productive, very productive and he had seven tackles for loss, one and a half sacks. I think Jack, I don't know that Jack is going to get to 101 tackles. I don't think he's going to play enough to get to 101 tackles. That team was involved in way too many close games that year where you're lying back set to play four games. I think there's going to be a lot of the okay, Jack's out by the third quarter type of games this year. What I think is going to happen though is a big jump in the disruptive production. I think Jack's going to be more maybe not he's not going to be as good as, you know, maybe mayor's that's delivering some of the highlight real plays, but I think Jack's going to get to the football a lot more than last year, a lot more consistently. Oh, yes, so we should see eight, nine, 10 tackles for loss this season from him because again, we're not talking about him replacing JD's production last year of seven tackles for loss. We're talking about it. Can he replace Maris's production from last year? Maris had 44 tackles, six tackles for loss, three sacks. If Jack Kaiser doesn't go way past, if Jack Kaiser's not at least 60 to 70 tackles next year, seven, eight tackles for loss this year, I'll be shocked, shocked. So I think and then of course with that comes even more recognition from an accolade, certain accolades. Yeah. He's got such a nose for the football, Brian, that I just don't see how he's not around it at all times. It's just and I know that there's he's probably going to end up splitting some reps here and there and maybe he's not going to be on the field is mine and I get all that and I totally understand it. But man, when he's on the field, when we look back on this season and we do the, you know, the per snap production and all of that, like we, like we do with him now, it's still going to be very, very good. I don't know that it's going to be as good as it was because the volume of snaps is obviously going to go way up, but and they're going to rotate a lot more for sure and I just say they did last year as well. His nose for the football is just so good. I mean, his instincts are just so good and now you're going to place him a little bit closer to the football as well, being on the inside. And so yeah, I agree with you. I'm excited to see what Jack Heiser can do with in this linebacker room with these other guys around him as well. You know, he's going to be a focus of the defense to a degree at the second level. There's no doubt about it, but how do you not focus on a guy like Drake Bowen? How do you not focus on some other guys as well? You know, Drake Bowen, you got to deal with Howard Cross and Riley Miller first before you got to worry about Jack Heiser and that's what that's what we were talking about the other day yesterday when you're having the D line conversation Vince is the better those guys are the more you can't be by the time you get off to Jack, he's already at you. And if he's at you by the time you get off a block, you're done. You're good. Right. And so I do believe Jack's going to have a breakout in that regard. Again, is he going to be is he going to put up like Jalen Smith type numbers, Tae, Tae Vanconi type numbers, 100 plus tackles, 10 plus tackles for loss? No, I don't think he's going to do that for a host of reasons, different defensive system. Sure. He's creating more, more blowouts, things like that. But I think he's going to have a very disruptive season for Notre Dame. I do. So who's the next guy that is on your list? I'm curious to see if we match up here. I mean, we could really go the whole group. I've got really four guys that are going to be breakouts to some to five guys are going to break out to some degree, four line backer one somewhere else. My next guys, I think Drake Bowen and it's hilarious. The takes on Drake Bowen are it's like last year, a lot of the people in the chat were like, he needs to play over JB Birdtran and blah, blah, blah. And I remember how pissed I was when they didn't start jacket or Drake against Central Michigan. Remember that? Like I thought that was still that was a mistake. But now a lot of the same people are ready to say bench Drake and play Kingston. And so it's funny within the fan base of people who just think the Drake bone is just not going to play this year. But I also think there's been an unhealthy pushback against that against Kingston. Like some people are taking out on Kingston frustrations they have with what fans are saying about Kingston. And I think that's just as unfair as saying we're ready to write off Drake Bowen. So I'm going to go here. I think they're both going to be breakout players for Notre Dame this year. I think Drake's going to be the starter. I think Drake's going to be a pretty good football player. I think he's going to be very disruptive. He's going to deliver some punishing hits. He's going to make his fair share mistakes, but he's going to be a very disruptive player as well, in my opinion. He's going to add a lot more physicality to the run game than what they've had at Mike in recent seasons. JD was a really good run player because he was smart and fast and he could beat you to the point of attack. Drake's going to be able to play with a little bit more of the ferocity that you need from a Mike linebacker. But you're also going to see a lot of Kingston. And the thing I love about what Notre Dame is doing is, yeah, Kingston's playing a lot of Mike, but that's not the only position he's playing. He's going to also be playing a lot of Will and do a lot of different things as well. So I think they're both going to be breakouts. I think they're both going to be guys that have a chance to come out this season and be playmakers for this defense. And at times it's going to be Kingston's spelling Drake. And at times I do think, again, this is a total projection. I think they're going to be snaps where we see Kingston and Drake on the field together. And I think that's going to be some of the teams I like to run a football off. Sure. And I think that could potentially be a preview of 2025. Potentially. I think Jalen's need might have a little something to say about that. And I hope he does. You know what? The more competition, the better. But it's saying by competition, sure, but it's also about like some of the best line back in course, Nerim has had in recent years, you had three guys that played a bunch. That's in 2020 was a 2017. Your top four tacklers were all linebackers. You remember that? Because because in 2017, you had you had drew was your rover. He finished third in tackles. Niles was your starting Mike. He had 92 tackles, Greer started half the games at will. He had 75 tackles. Tae Von Kony started some at will and played some of Mike. He was the sort of the he was all done. Yeah. He had 116 tackles. He had four linebackers with 75 or more tackles on that team. That's crazy. In 2017. Because four guys played a ton of football. Yeah. And I think that's kind of the future of the position with the depth they have now. Like if they, you know, they have Anthony Saka committed in the 2025 class, you know, they're hoping to land Madden for ammo and Netanyahu's who bow tank. Guess what? When those guys get the campus, there's going to be people in the chat. They need to bench Kingston and play. But the reality is that's a good thing because it's showing how well no name is recruiting. Sure. That people are like already ready to dismiss this fresh and all American because this guy is a stud too. And when you have that as a coach, it's like, okay, play them all. Find a room for, you know, find a role for all of them. And that's going to be the task in front of Marisley or not Marisley foul, but in front of Max Bullah and Al Golden this year is how can you use all of them. Sure. That's going to be the key. And when I look at Drake, I think he's going to be a breakout. There's not a lot of people nationally talking about Drake. And I think that's going to change a little bit. And there are a lot of people talking about Kingston and I think he's going to answer that bell and go from a guy that's, I mean, never played it down to a very important player for our game. So I have them both. I have them both as breakouts this season. I was going to go Jaden Jaylen's need as well. And I think he certainly, it's certainly possible, very, very possible with him. I just need to see it a little bit. I'm not ready to go that route yet, but it won't shock me. Yeah. I'm not ready to predict it. Yeah, right. But I'm anticipating it, if that makes sense. I don't know if that makes sense. I think he can. Yeah. He's looked great so far, but he, because he's a junior and we've seen some of the things from him, it's probably not right. Well, I'm given Drake and Kingston a little bit more of the benefit of that, because they're just more instinctive players than what Jaylen's shown. Sure, sure. But I can't all, I also can't deny what I've seen with my own eyes and practice minutes. Yeah. You know, and it's like, it's like, we talked about this you and I off the air last year in fall camp. When we're talking about Maris, like, you know, I'm not going to talk about it on the show today, but dang, he looked good today. Yeah. And that's kind of how I feel about Jaylen so far. It's like, you know, I don't want to talk about him in the show because I just, we've been here, done that, but dang, he looked good today. You know, so I'm not ready to predict it. But I'm, I'm anticipating it. You're getting there. That could certainly happen, especially as a pass rusher. Like that's what I think Jaylen could have a really big breakout this year is maybe he doesn't play as much as an, as an off ball linebacker. But I think he's going to be a force to be reckoned with in some of their sub packages, okay, just because he's so twitchy and he's just got to, he's, he's shown a much better knack for winning in fall camp this year and in the spring than he did last year. Winning meaning timing up blitzes, beating lineman around the block, getting off blocks and that like just winning reps. We've seen a lot more of that. I could get on board with that assessment more so than as a breakout player per se, right? I can definitely get on board with that because I think that's a great niche home for him where he could make a name for himself and where he could really help this team. I mean, really help this team because I do think he's an instinctual pass rusher when you're just giving him that responsibility. I, could he play will and be effective at will and be an off the ball linebacker and all of those things? Sure, he could for sure. What I see as the more plausible possibility right now with just what I've seen from him over the last two and a half years would be more of the package, you know, pass rush type of role. I, I could definitely see that for him. And look, that's a really important piece to what this defense is going to be moving forward in 24. You need that. I, I think that would be a crucial part of this defense. He just wouldn't be, you know, an every down linebacker and that's okay. You know, if you can find your niche and you can be really, really good at it, he could be that guy. And I think that could be a huge part to this team. I think that's a really good point because I wasn't ready. I was going to push back on you if you were going to name him as like a breakout player. Well, because then you're just like, dude, you literally named the entire two defense might as break out. Right. Right. You know, like, for sure, I wanted to go with Jaden Osbury. But again, I just, I haven't seen him take a rep out at, you know, I mean, in fall camp in a team setting yet, like, or not many, you know, saw the first day with no pads on. I just need to see a little bit more from Jaden than the other guys, but it wouldn't shock me if he has a breakout. Like literally all of them can be breakouts. That's that's how talented the room is. That's true. But I'm just not right. Go there. My final breakout is actually Preston Zinner. Oh, interesting because I think Preston Zinner is going to end up being a breakout player on special teams this year. Okay. This is my one guy that I said I'm adding a little bit of an asterisk to the linebacker position because of how much they're going to be used on special teams. I don't have reason for it. We haven't seen him in practice. This is just, you know, some things I've heard, but also just my feeling of the kind of player he is. It won't shock me if Preston Zinner becomes sort of like the Jordan Patel hole of special teams. Okay. Remember how impactful Jordan was in 2022? I mean, a couple of block kicks, he had the fumble recovery against or the block kick recovery against Syracuse and like the one yard line, you know, he's the one that actually blocked the punt that Maris scooped or not Maris, but Prince Collie scooped and scored against Clemson. Right. You know, then he was on some blocking teams, you know, where he was part of the coverage team or the return team and things along those lines, I could see Preston Zinner becoming that guy. Okay. He's six threes two forty. He's he's a good at in a lot of other years, Preston Zinner is a guy that you're talking about as like, you know, maybe he's been in the two deeper balance for starting job a linebacker. That happens to be a talented kid buried at an incredibly talented position group. That's the problem. But then great thing about linebacker that's different at quarterback and even running back to a degree is there's so many things you can do with that kind of guy that has nothing to do with defense kick off team, kick return team, punt block team, punt cover team, punt return team, you know, I mean, there's, you know, PAT field goal. I mean, on side, I mean, there's so many different ways you can use a guy, sure, like that. And in Preston was a pretty good tight end in high school too. So like, maybe he's the up back and he's a guy that you can pick a punt. I mean, he's athletic enough to do it. Sure. He's one of those kids that if it wasn't for, if it wasn't for the talent that's already that's there with him, we'd be having a different conversation about this kid. Like this kid going into 2019, 2020 is good. If he was on the team in 2020 as a sophomore, he'd beat out Shane Simon easily as a starting will linebacker. That was on a playoff team, Vince. Yeah, yes, it was. But he just happens to be at Notre Dame at a time where they're loaded at that position. And it's unfortunate for him as a linebacker, but it's also very fortunate for Marty Biagie. So as long as Preston has the right attitude going into fall camp, I'll be shocked if Preston's enters not not a breakout player on special teams this year and make some kind of splash, you know, big block, you're going to go back, Oh, did you see that long return from Jane Harrison? Did you see the block that Preston's center had he cut right off of him for touchdown? Those type of things. I, I, that's what I see from that, man, that big block kick and that, you know, that kicked the game off against Florida State that got that game, like that's the kind of stuff that I think you're going to see Preston's center have an impact on this year. And that's why he's my breakout player, because I do think he's going to have a breakout. It's just not going to be on defense. It's going to be on special teams, but it's also the point now where it's like you could have a couple injuries. And if you're forced to put Preston's enter on the field of line back, you're like, yo, all right. Okay. Like the thing about this, you're a whole starting line back and core comes down with the flu. Right. Right. It's like that scene from my cousin, Vinnie. The whole store gets the flu you bleed at the whole store gets the flu when he had that stupid jacket on. I put on this ridiculous thing for you. But anyway, the whole starting line back and core gets the flu camp. Okay. No jack, no Jack Kaiser, no Drake Bowen, no Jaylin state. Your starting defense at that time would be Jaden Alsbury, theoretically, Jaden Alsbury, Kingston, Vilyama, Asa, and Preston's enter. It's a pretty good, frickin' line back and core. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I'd be okay with that in most of their games. Right. You know what I mean? I'd kind of be okay with like almost all their games. Okay. I mean, like that's a really good group. It's young, very super young, and that's the concern. But talent wise, you're like, dude, those are pretty good flippin' pipes, and they would be bigger than the starting lineup. Think about it. Because Kingston's every bit as big as Drake, and then you'd have Preston at six, three, two thirty five replacing six, one, two thirty Jack Kaiser. You know, so you look at it and you're like, that just speaks volumes about how low to this group is. You know? And so I'm looking forward to seeing this group play. Yeah. Oh. That would be an understatement. I'm very much looking forward to seeing this group play. There's no doubt about it. But this is gonna be, this is gonna be a fun and exciting line back and core to keep an eye on this year. There's gonna be highlight level, real plays, you know, highlight real plays that are gonna be made, and you just hope that some of those other plays are a few and far between. And that's the hope of this group moving forward and again, the athleticism, the speed, the length of this group, it's gonna be fun to watch, folks. It's gonna be fun to watch. So stay tuned. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And we have a couple super chats, Vince. Oh, before we got out of here, I did want to, I wanted to have you answer. Oh, yeah. This one be feeder. We had another one from Carson Jackson, but, but the feeder says, Vince with your unique view on the kicking world. What are the, what are the more subtle advantages of a punter with a five second hang time versus the NFL average of 4.4 seconds? Can we just say something real quick? Go for it. James Rindell is not gonna average that chance for pun. I mean, it's not, well, and he's not gonna be asked to have five seconds of hang time for all of his points, right? It's just like, you don't ask a guy to do something that you can't do. That's just not gonna happen. Right. Exactly. So what is the advantage of a five second hang? It's to allow your coverage team to get down there and there's no return. I mean, that's the advantage. I mean, that the longer the ball is in the air, the more of an opportunity you have to get your coverage unit down to cover the pun. Right. So you're gonna see a lot more fair catches and things of that nature. And I, and I will also say the spin on his ball that I was able to see on, on some of the video is just weird, like I've never seen that before. And I have, I have seen probably thousands of punters at this point in my life. And I have never seen that type of a spin where it kind of moves the ball sideways. So I have a question for you. Some people in the chat have said that that has to do with how rugby bases play. That's Australian rules football is rugby, correct? Okay. Yeah. What we call rugby. Yeah. And I think the ball there. Yeah. It's, it's, it's you're kicking it way differently than you are as a punter. So it's different. It's a different shaped ball. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So with that, with that kind of maybe explain partly. Possibly. Yeah. Possibly. Is he super long? I'd be very curious about that. Sit down and have a conversation with I actually, what I would love to do, like my kids studies punting, like more so than he studies some of the things he should be studying, but he's studies punting. I would love to hear those two, like have a conversation about how you hold the ball, how you step it off, you know, all of the different little intricacies that are involved in punting and find out what the differences are from what heat my son does, which is more traditional, right? As to what James Rindel does and to get that kind of a spin on the ball. And so I would be absolutely fascinated to watch that conversation take place. And frankly, I'm fascinated to see him actually kick a ball. He was actually kicking today, but he was on a different field behind a fence. And so I kept seeing the ball go up and go down, but not him actually kicking it. So it was an Aussie rules football in rugby or different. I don't know. And you say that Aussie rules football is kind of in between the two. I guess I don't know, I never watched it. I know there's like, my assumption was that it was like what they call football in Europe is soccer. I just thought when they said Aussie rules football, since all Australians are supposedly really good at rugby, that's what it was. But it's supposedly different, but the ball definitely comes off very, but it's very powerful. Absolutely. Like, I don't know if you noticed some of the hang time, like some of the arch, not hang time, but the arch he was getting on some of those kicks, like normally punters, you don't really see it from where we were today. You don't see their ball, but his you could see from practice. Yeah. And I will also say that the hang time was very, very good. And the balls that I saw go up, the distance wasn't fantastic. So it just depends on what you're asking your punter to do. All right. Is he backed up at his own goal line? You just want to get a bunch of distance, or is it you, are you on your own 35 and you want to get some height and just coffin kick it, which, you know, I thought I remembered them kicking left to right. From what we were looking out is what I thought I saw when I saw when I, the couple of balls I saw went from right to left, right to left. So I mean, my question is since they were working on red zone, were they working on kicking in your own territory? That's the other thing. Absolutely. But yeah. 100% very different. But very, I mean, like here, here's an example. Last year, Bryce McPherson ranked, well, he didn't rank anywhere when it came to punting because he didn't punt enough, which is, yeah, offense, right. So he had 38 punts. He didn't qualify for the national ranking. But if he did, he 45.1, I believe I did this ranking. He would have been in just, this is gross average. He would have been ranked 19th in the country. Okay. Pretty good. Yep. Just didn't have enough kicks. The problem is Notre Dame last year ranked 96th in the country and punt returns against. It's just not coverage. So coverage. Correct. Now, part of that is, yeah, they made some mistakes and coverage. But the other part of it, part of it is since they didn't have a lot of opportunities, that one long one from USC kind of inflated the numbers a little bit. The third part of that is, Bryce McPherson was not good at kicking where they wanted the ball to go. Right. He would kick it far, but it'd get up and down real fast. Right. And then that guys are catching it and they got room to run and sometimes they don't get 7-8 yards, but that's 7-8 yards that can be a difference, right? If I catch it at the 11 and I run nine yards in the 20, I feel a lot better as an offensive coordinator than if you catch it at the 11 and you're pinned at the 11. 100%. Right. I just feel better about that. I don't have as much room. And that's the thing about punting that I keep trying to explain to people when they're all excited about the leg of James Rendell, which is great. It's great. That's a great thing to have, but you have to be able to put it where the coach wants you to put it. You've got to be able, and that's where the hang time comes in potentially. That's where you see guys, when they drop the ball, it's up and down. And then you get that backspin, like, that's a way to kick a ball that's very important. So I mean, there's different ways to do it where you want to be able to put it, where you want to put it. And too many times the ball wasn't going where they wanted it, when they wanted it to get there, which is why they were okay with him hitting the portal. So yeah, you know, he had a big leg. He's always had a big leg, Bryce McPherson has a huge leg. There's no doubt, but it didn't always go where they wanted it to go. And sometimes he's kind of a big deal. Yeah. It's a huge deal. It's kind of like having a place kicker that can kick a 60 yard field goal, but misses chip shots from 36, right, like, which one would you rather have? Exactly. I want the guy that's money from inside of 45 at 100%. There's only going to be like one time a year where I'd rather have the other guy. Right. Yep. No doubt about it. So no doubt about it. Yeah. We had one more super chat. Cool. I want to get to as well. This is related to the linebackers. Carson Jackson. Thank you so much for the super chat. Coulds need be a Harold Perkins-ish kind of guy. Oh, I got it. Harold Perkins-ish kind of guy. Yeah. Yeah. Look, is he as good as Harold Perkins? Is he his dynamic as Harold Perkins? I mean, he hasn't shown that they're very similar bodies, Harold's thicker, but they're very similar bodies. They're both really twitchy athletic players. I think Harold is a more instinctive player than what Jalen has shown himself to be at Notre Dame. But Harold Perkins is kind of like a rover body that whose game is kind of best suited to rush off the edge. I mean, that's kind of what he does best is rush to pass, but he doesn't have the body to be a pass rusher. Right. So like in the Notre Dame defense, would he be like that situational pass rusher that would be really dynamic? Sure. Absolutely. Would he be also be a part of your will conversation and be a disruptive downhill blitzer good coverage player? Sure. Yeah, he would. And you hope that Jalen's need can do a lot of those things. So yes, you are going to be asking him to do a lot of the things for your defense that LSU asks Harold Perkins to do in his defense. Just probably not as much just line up on the edge and rest of quarterback, but being that situational nickel get after the quarterback kind of guy, yes, I absolutely believe that's what Notre Dame is going to ask Jalen's need to do some of this season like it just won't be as like I said, it won't be as much of you're going to see Jalen's need rushing the quarterback off the edge. You're also going to see Jalen's need rushing in between the tackles. Oh, sure. You know, but but yeah, I mean, that's going to be similar to what you're asking Jalen's need to do. Sure. And if he can play the position as well as Harold Harold Perkins does, and Notre Dame's going to be pretty flipping good because he's a he's a very good football player. I just he's he's an interesting guy because he he's an heck of a pass rusher, but he's just not a big enough guy to be a full time defensive end. He's just not close, right, or even full time stand up outside linebacker. And he's got a lot to learn as an inside linebacker, which is partly why I think Harold Perkins is going to be really good this year if they leave him as an off ball linebacker, he's going to be really good because now he's got a more more of a year of kind of getting after the quarterback, but also being used as an off ball linebacker, which they didn't ask him to do a ton as a freshman, because a freshman, he just he was a super disruptive guy that just got after the football. I mean, he didn't play as much off ball linebacker as he did the year before. But you know, now you look at him and say, okay, now you're asking to do a lot more last year. Sure. And you know, he was good, but he wasn't he was not maybe as good as maybe people thought he was going to be last season, but still not as good as people thought he was going to be 75 tackles, 13 tackles will also five and a half sacks is pretty flipping good. You know, but again, he had less production needed as a freshman is a freshman at 73 tackles, 14 tackles to loss in eight and a half sacks, because he was playing more off ball linebacker. This year, I think they're going to ask him to do that even more, but still utilizing his ability to push quarterback, right? So role wise, body type wise, athleticism wise, sure, there's a lot of things that, that Jaylen state and Harold Perkins have in common, both highly ranked recruits, Jaylen wasn't ranked as high as as Harold was if I recall, let me just look up Harold Perkins ranking. I thought I remembered Harold Perkins being like a top 10 kind of guy, where Jaylen was more of a top 50 kind of guy, but I could be wrong on that. Yeah, he was 12th, fifth, fourth and 34th. So whereas I think Jaylen's highest ranking was 34th. So two of two people had had Harold Perkins in the top five. Another had him 12. And then somebody else had him 134th, Jaylen was ranked 26th, 42nd, 48th and 46th coming out of high school. So yeah, so yes, the long way of answering the question, yeah, I think so, but I, I just don't want to say, Oh, yeah, definitely. And then people think like, so you think Jalen, he could have 14 tackles for loss in eight sacks this year? No, I'm not saying that, I hope he does, maybe great, but I don't think he's going to play enough to do that because they're going to play a rotation. But I don't know that he's quite the, the player that Harold Perkins is, or at least hasn't shown himself to be so, because if he was that kind of player, he'd have found a role by now, like more extensive than he was. Big thing for Jaylen's need is I've just always felt that Jaylen went in his first two years with a little bit of a sense of entitlement that I was a big time recruit. Therefore, I should get this. Sure. One of the things that I have been told about Jaylen's need, I'll just, well, I won't say that, but there, well, I'll say it. Yeah, that's flat. I'll say it. There was a time this offseason where it was assumed he wasn't going to be part of the team anymore. He was going to go into portal. My understanding is through conversations with the staff that Jaylen sort of kind of realized like, you know what, I don't know that I have been the best version of myself. And you see it, Vince, you saw it this spring and you're seeing this fall, he's a different worker. Yeah. I mean, just his attitude, the tempo he plays at that this is just a different version of Jaylen's need. I'm not ready to get too fired up about it because I need to see it continue, but he's a different looking kid this summer or this fall. And it's not because, you know, oh, he's gained five pounds or whatever. It's just he just carries himself differently. And Jaylen's need develops the right attitude about going about his business every day. He could be a breakout player as a linebacker, not just a situational guy. I just need to see it, you know what I mean? But yes, like Jaylen sees not a guy I look at and say, man, I hadn't as a top 50 player. I think I missed on the talent. I didn't miss on the talent. The talent's obvious. He's a top 50 caliber talent. It's just does he have the athletically does he have the instincts, the field, the desire to learn the technical parts of the game, the passion to learn and play with the nuance that you need. Those are have always been questions with Jaylen's need. And if and if he can answer those favorably, there's no reason to think he can end up being their name's best linebacker. I mean, he's got that ability, Vince, there's five guys at linebacker that I think if certain things go wrong, could be their go right, could be their best linebacker, Jack Kaiser could be their best linebacker, Drake Bowen, Kingston, Jaylen's need, and Jaydon Osprey. That's how talented this group is, is that you and it's not because for because you can say that and it's like, Oh, it's because none of them are any good. And and one of them may step up. This is because these are all really good football players. Yeah. You know, I graded Jack Kaiser, I think was my lowest ranked recruit coming out of high for me. I don't care what other people say. You know, I give you guys that information so you know it. But for me, I believe Jack Kaiser was my lowest ranked recruit coming out of high school and I had Jack, I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure I had Jack as the top 250 guy. I loved Jack and I know one a football, I don't care playing one eight. If you're a four five, like everywhere, you know, who you are, where you play that, that only impacts your numbers, yeah, but Jack Kaiser would have dominated as a senior, whether he's playing one a or what's the highest for a five six six a I don't care what level he was playing that Jack Kaiser was one of the best players in the state of Indiana in 2019. I don't care anything else, right? He was a stud that you said, punted, returned puns, every free safety played quarterback. I mean, he was a dude. Yep. He was my lowest ranked guy of the guys in that we're talking about. I mean, Jalen was a top 50 guy, Jaden Osborne was a top 50 guy, Kingston was a top 50 guy. I had Drake bone as a top 100 guy, but with a five star upside, you know, just because with Drake, it was just about he didn't really play a lot of off ball linebacker in his career. And actually, matter of fact, I'm wrong on that. I actually had Drake as a top 50 player as well. I thought I had him as a top 100 guy, but maybe he was after his monster senior year. Looks like I moved him up a little bit, but this is an incredibly talented room, incredibly talented room. It just comes down to can they put it all together? Because it's also very young room, sure, exactly. And Jalen's need might be the biggest wild card on the roster on defense. Like, I remember we were talking two years ago, Sean Davis and I were talking to him. He was telling me about a recruit that was a practice. And they were saying, what'd you see? And he was like, man, it's number three. They come block this number three, like, I mean, this is Joe Walt Blake Fisher Notre Dame. And they're like, he couldn't block. Who's number three? I don't know. Number three is but they can block number three. And Sean and I are like, number three. Who the heck is number three? Oh, Jalen's need. Right. You know what I mean? And so the talent's there, but it's just about, you know, can you put it all together and harness it and compare him to Jeremiah Wusukor, Mo, the diff, it's a, to me, that's not a good comparison because Jeremiah was a guy that you played as a pure Rover in space. Jalen's more of a box guy. He'll play some Rover, but Jalen's going to be doing his damage as a pass rusher, as an inside linebacker and the rotation, things like that. So it doesn't really matter what, what, what Jeremiah Wusukor, Mo, it did different play. Right. Very different skill set. So that that's where you come down from, but like Vince, would it shock you at the end of the year? If you're like Jalen's needs their most disruptive playmaker at linebacker, it won't shock me. No, as a, as a talent, as a talent, it won't shock me at all. Right. There's literally not a linebacker that's in the top five that we look at that I would look at and say, boy, I'm surprised that guy was their best guy. The five guys I just mentioned it, none of them are going to surprise like we talk about like it's so unfair that people want to just dismiss Drake and put in Kingston. But it's also like, but you kind of understand it because Kingston's really good. You know what I mean? It's like they could all be that guy. And if Jalen's need breaks out, the thing that's different is his breakout will come, will look way different than the other guys because it's going to be more as a, that means he's getting a lot of hits on the quarterback this season. And that could be a really fun thing to watch, really fun thing to watch. And Vince is little, that's exactly, cause you're like, I see it in your head, Vince. Like I see what's going on in your eyes. I know you. Yeah. And your thing is, dude, I want to believe I want to believe, but I just need to see it. I did it because you see him out there running. You're like, that dude moves different than a lot of other people. But you've also seen all the mistakes and the out of positions and all that. That's what happens the more you play, the more mistakes we get to see you make and the more we can judge you. Right? Like seriously. I mean, you're not wrong. And so I get your hesitation and I'm there with you. But, but at the end of the day, that's the thing is we also have to be willing to admit that if the light goes on for Jalen's need, right, it's going to be fun to watch because he's different. I mean, not better, not worse, just different with how he plays the game than the other linebackers. They're more traditional linebackers. He's more of just a really athletic dude and linebacker makes the most sense. Right. Right. But it's going to be fun to watch. Very fun to watch, which is why I said he's a guy that I'm not ready to predict a breakout, but it wouldn't shock me because he's got that kind of ability. So just wanted to make sure we talked about that. So that's a good super chat. And I thank you for that Carson. Appreciate you. Any of those super chats? There's that good. No, that's it, man. Okay. That's it. Excellent. Well, thanks everybody for hanging out with us. The attention and we've got more coming your way as we always do. And so make sure you stay tuned tonight. You've got I've been nation of sports talk and I'm sure they're going to be talking some offensive line. Sean had a chance to talk to Joe Rudolph and then some other offensive lineman as well. And so I'm sure he's going to have some audio and all of that to talk about tonight on I've been nation of sports talk. And then tomorrow Brian and I will be back and it's by sell whole day, I do believe. And so that's a fun day for us. But we were also talking a little secondary or just, I was just going to say that. I'm sorry. You know what? I'm going to mute myself again. So I don't go ahead. That's fantastic. No, we're going to talk secondary and then we're also going to do buy, sell hold. And so it's going to be a fun little Wednesday. And so really looking forward to that. So make sure that you stay tuned with Irish Breakdown because this is where you get your info. So make sure you like, subscribe, hit that notification bell. There's a chance of an impromptu show on Saturday. Just throwing it out there. There's a chance actually it's probably going to happen because there is a, an opportunity for us to do a show. And so we're probably going to do one. So, but you would never know unless you have that notification bell clicked. So make sure you go ahead and do that. And of course share with your family and friends and jump on the boards, boards@Irishbreakdown.com. That is where all the fun happens. And if you're not there, you're a square. That's all there is to it. So for Brian, I mean, it's true, but you can't say that it's like a 1950s in salt. I don't even know if that's even legitimate or every 20 year old's like, what, what did you just say? I don't even know. Should I be mad about that? I know. Exactly. So I don't even know if that even the older fans are like, what? I hope I don't run into you at a, you know, okay. That's right. Oh man. So hey, thanks for hanging out with us guys. We really appreciate you for Brian. I'm Vince and we will talk to you next time on the Irish Breakdown Podcast. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC]
