Hello and welcome to yet another episode of Apocalypse Duts. Today, we welcome a special guest, longtime observer and participant in the Trad Fad, well-traveled, well-heeled. At least one of his 300 ties has a shield. At your flip-lops hill real, the moddress mouth muck raker and appraiser in a navy blazer, we welcome the godfather of the clothing blogger, John Tinsen. Dear god. Dear god, indeed. That's the reaction that we want. I know. Yeah. You bastard. You know, I will say this. Shortly after starting the Trad blog, I really regretted naming it the Trad. And I also say this as well. In the years I worked on that thing, it took a lot of energy. That tells us about it, yeah. And I also realized it takes no energy to be myself. And I wish I had done a blog just as myself. I kind of feel like you describing yourself the way that you did when we first started setting this up. It kind of comes through. You're one of the only people that I can think of that never really tried to put anything on, even though maybe you did. Yeah, I did. I certainly wasn't me. But I think that's appropriate to army brats, or to military brats and foreign service brats, anybody that moves around a lot, sometimes they don't know who they are, people who don't have a home. I don't have a home. I think that everyone on the internet more or less has to choose how they want to represent themselves. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I started that blog because I was back and forth between St. Augustine, Florida and New York City. And what was happening was I would go to Jacksonville, Florida and, you know, Northeast Florida is like Southeast Georgia. There's really no difference. And then Bam, you know, I'm in Manhattan, I'm in Midtown, you know, taking a cab to an apartment on East 57th Street. And all I wanted to do is take photographs of those two places, of people dressed in those two places. What the people wore in Jacksonville and what the people wore in Manhattan. And I realized that if I did this in Jacksonville, taking pictures of people in Jacksonville, I would probably get my ass kicked pretty quickly. You know, I know, you know, but there was that guy that had the blog, one of the first street blogs and it was very successful, but I realized, you know, he was taking pictures of people on the street all the time, and I just realized I can't do this in Jacksonville. But it was really easy to do in New York. It really was. Yeah. Yeah. I think that has something because I think of taking pictures of people in Baltimore who I see all the time and I'm like, man, I wish I could take a picture of this person, but it's like, I don't know what is going to happen, I have no idea what's going to happen, so I just take pictures of buildings. Man, you, yeah, you've got to have a big pair in some places to do that. And, and I, and I, and I was modest. Yeah. Same with me, meniscule. I just, I don't, I don't have, I don't have the guts to do that. I'll jump out of planes. You know, I did rock climbing. I, you know, I, I had a heart attack. I loved all that stuff. I thought a heart attack was the best thing that ever happened to me. If you can come out on the other side, you know, it is great. It is an experience and a half, but, but asking somebody to take their picture, I, and not in Manhattan, I can't do that. Can't do it. But in Manhattan, they're all like, Oh, yeah, what's the name of your blog? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Mordecai has balls so big, I don't know how he walks, you know, he, how do you do, how he does that. And he just, you know, I, I just keep looking at these things of him taking pictures and I'm like, Oh, he's going to get his ass kicked here. I mean, he's definitely going to get in trouble. But so far, you know, I don't know, must be the, must be that nice face of his. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if anyone would mess with him, really. I think that he gives off what I have, what I have sort of, uh, figured for myself is that people, I guess think that I'm unstable, which they're not wrong. And so it's more, it's kind of a similar thing. You don't know what's going to happen. All right. Or he gives off a decent innocence, you know, and, and I always, when I first met him, that's you know, he was stoned, but he was stoned almost all the time. Um, but anyway, you know, he, but you know, I mean, I, I think that there was, you know, um, this, just kind of real innocence about him as a kid. This is, we're talking 12, 13 years ago when I first met him. There's a picture of you guys, um, very early in your blog, I'm trying to find it. We'll post it at some point, but I thought that that was funny. That was like not somebody who I really expected you to be running with. Like at the time, right? I was a college freshman. So I was following these people in New York, these blogs in New York. And they, I guess, had their own sort of, um, imagined alliances in my mind. Yeah. Yeah. He, you know, we, we connected, we certainly connected and, and I liked him a lot. At the time, um, you know, um, it was, he was really, I thought quite brave and, um, uh, and so uniform is like, uh, mantra, I feel like a, is a, is genius work really. You know, there was another blogger who told me one time, you know, when I was telling him about Mordecai that I just met him. And I guess that was when he was working for, uh, doctors or some, I think he was working for doctors back then. And, um, and this blogger said, you know, he's like, he's like, look, man, I'll call Mordecai, you know, at three o'clock in the afternoon. I won't hear from him for two weeks and then suddenly at three o'clock in the morning, I get a text from him. And that's, he's like, just be aware of that, be where it don't. He's, you know, he doesn't reply very quickly, but, but, you know, he's, he's, he's, he's got a good heart. Hell yes. He's always, he's always come off that way. It's me. Yeah. I don't know him. Uh, I'm not a met him once or twice when I lived in New York, but, uh, yeah, just like seems like a fucking just genuine dude. Yeah. Nothing disingenuous about him at all, not tell you. So, uh, John, you already thrown out, uh, army brat, um, so we know you've moved around a lot. Can you give us the highs, lows and in-betweens of, uh, of where you laid your head? Oh, my gosh, that would be, um, well, I was born in, uh, Ellsworth Air Force based South Dakota, just outside of, um, Rapid City. Um, I don't know anything about it. Um, you guys, can you guys hear in the background, uh, a chainsaw? Uh, it's my air conditioner. No, it's, it's, um, no, there's a guy with a chainsaw window, um, yeah, no, I don't hear anything. Okay. Good. Good. Good. Good. I was going to go into the bathroom in the toilet. Um, no, uh, unnecessary. Right. Sorry about that. Um, so, um, oh, and I just let everybody know I live and make it. Oh, dear God. I'm so embarrassed. Um, so, um, the, um, the, I don't remember, I know that we had lived in, um, Fort Sam Houston, um, and Fort Bliss prior to my memory, um, but when I was about six, that was when I first remembered, um, where we lived, it's, um, my first memories. And that was, that was El Paso, Texas. Uh, the next year was lot in Oklahoma, um, at Fort, uh, Fort Sill. The next year was, uh, Fayetteville, North Carolina, at Fort Bragg. Uh, the next year, dad, uh, the next year, dad went to Vietnam. They kicked us off of Fort Bragg, um, and, uh, we lived in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. And, so, I was in fourth grade, first time I went to a Catholic school, um, that was fun. Um, yeah. Do you think that, do you think that that had some influence on your dress? I mean, I assume that was a uniform, uh, school. Yeah. It, it's a, it is a, there's a weird thing about some military kids. When you grow up in the military, as my father told me one time, you, anything you do is a reflection on me. And if you screw up, I will leave you behind. Wow. Now this was, I was about 12 then. And you know, this was 69, 70 pot was everywhere, drugs were everywhere, kids were getting in trouble. Kids were involved in the black market, um, in Germany. And, um, you know, I, I don't think he believed that, but you know, he wanted to scare the but Jesus out of me and he did. Yeah. So, so it was, it is about image in the military, but I was a close horse at a young age. I, I was wearing, uh, I have a picture of, of, of me in a neighborhood jacket, um, with a, a navy, a neighborhood jacket with a white turtleneck wearing tie dyed pants and side buckle shoes. Um, you know, it's, it's, uh, cause you said, you said in your blog that it's about basically looking nice, but also being loud, which I really appreciate it. That's Connor's mentality. Yeah. Well, you know, it's, it's, um, the loud thing. Um, it is, um, I think there's a, there's a hidden language in clothing and this is not my creation. Sure. I've heard this many times and you communicate to other people through your clothing. You know, I can wear a 10, 10 and snowy sweater from the milieu of, uh, Belgian, uh, animated series, 10, 10, and before the movie came out, you know, nobody knew what the hell it was. Um, and I didn't know what it was when I first started working in London. Um, but because of my last name, um, everybody called me 10, 10 in London. Um, so that's the, and I started looking at it and I thought, you know, and, and in fact, when I bought a dog, I bought a wire fox terrier because of 10, 10. I wanted a dog just like 10, 10. So you, I would, I remember one time being in a train station with a 10, 10 sweater on this huge thing, Icelandic wild thing with 10, 10 and snowy, uh, on it. Their faces. Oh my God. And a woman, a woman walked over to me and I'm like, what the hell is going on? And she's like, 10, 10. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, so to me, it was always that time, 10, 10 is internationally recognizable. There was a movie in the States that came out and yeah, so it's a little, it's a little better than it was with the internet. I mean, God almighty, man, back in the mid nineties, um, you know, no, nobody knew what 10, 10 was. Yeah. I remember knowing of it sort of as like a vaguely espionage English thing. And so in that, in that way, it was attractive to me as like a nine year old. Yeah. I thought it was French, um, but I was, I've always, I was always corrected by French people. Now it's Belgian. Uh, that was the original, uh, the artist and, um, man, I remember one time in London seeing a guy who had, um, a little Citroen, the, the two CV, I believe. And it was in, in, in tan or khaki and on the back, just under, um, the rear window, he had a painting of 10, 10 and snowy, just like my sweater, but a line painting. You know, I was like, man, this is, this is the coolest thing I, I do, it was kind of like, it was kind of like James Bond, uh, neighborhood. Yeah. He was a teenage. He was a teenage detective, you know, right, um, solving crimes and he had his, his friends and allies. Cause isn't Paul Roe Belgian? Pardon? Hercule Paul Roe is Belgian, I believe. I did. Is it? I thought he was French. I thought that there's always a distinction though. He's like, you know, like 300 years ago, they were going back and forth. He didn't even know, but he was the Spain and the French and the Belgians and the Swiss. It was all mixed up, but, um, but anyway, I use sort of the artifice of boundaries in that way. Yeah. Um, that, which, you know, makes me think of, you know, in those countries, Spain had, you know, the, uh, order of the Golden Fleece. That's a whole another story, but, but anyway, um, it was a, a, he traveled the world. That was another thing, you know, um, and look, man, I'm 32 years old when I get turned on to TT, uh, to, to, to, to 10, 10 and, and, um, um, I, I just remember, um, just being fascinated by it. You know, I bought a bunch of the books, um, and, um, and really enjoyed it. I, I, you know, I really, look, man, that's what I did as a kid in a lot of ways when I moved around a lot. You know, what you wore in Hampton, Virginia at Fort Monroe did not work in Colorado Springs at Fort Carson. I can tell you that right now. Yeah. And, and my sister, who was an artist, she just walked around in overalls, you know, with pain all over them. She never changed. She never changed. She never changed. All the places we moved. She never changed. Um, but I always had to get a whole new wardrobe, um, because, you know, oh, so Hampton was top ciders and shorts and sailing on little 12 foot sailboats in the Chesapeake off the coast of Fort Monroe. Um, Colorado Springs was a waffle stoppers, uh, jeans, uh, a kind of, uh, a John Denver look at the time, you know, in '73, you know, it was, or, or you were, or you were a cowboy, um, which the people in my high school called Prairie Ferry, uh, or Goat Roper. Um, then they were, then there were the kids who were the potheads, the stoners, then there were the kids who smoked outside. Um, you know, it was, but, you know, I, I kind of picked up on the, I didn't, I, I kind of, you know, it, it would be dishonest of me to say, I didn't like John Denver, because I did, but I was young then. Yeah. You didn't like it like that. Yeah. Like my mom has a great John Denver story. Yeah. I will. Yeah. I don't even know, maybe this hasn't come up, but, uh, he was her favorite songwriter when she was in high school. And like, I think I'm pretty sure with our math, you're, you're in my parents general age range. Okay. Um, you know, went to high school in this, in the like early to mid seventies, et cetera. Um, so he was her favorite songwriter. She wrote him a letter and biting him to her graduation. And I don't think, sadly, I don't think she still has it, but he sent her, uh, an autograph photo and a handwritten letter back saying that if he had not like had a tour scheduled, he would have been her graduation. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Like I have a song for him. Also the two to the Maytales country road cover is one of my favorite like reggae songs. Yeah. Well, no, I mean, you know, you're right. I mean, he was a great songwriter and, um, I can't say that I personally enjoy a lot of it. But yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I don't even know what John Denver sounds like. It's like, what is a John Denver song? What's the most famous John Denver song? Uh, see, we don't even know that. Rocky Mountain High. Yeah. Rocky Mountain High is up there. Uh, take me home. Oh, see. So I do know that. That's like, he wrote, he wrote, he wrote stuff for Peter Paul and Mary. They did, they, they did some of his stuff when he was still just a songwriter. Yeah. Um, yeah. But he was, he was. He's a coward character. Yeah. But he was, I mean, he just needed a little roughness or something. Yeah. I don't know. I agree. He was too flat. Yeah. Our sister in Garmes, Eva Qul, founded her brand, Epilate in 2008 and has remained dedicated to making quality garments in the USA at a fair price ever since. Known for her discerning taste and fabric, she searches endlessly to offer things not seen anywhere else, culminating in a fantastic assortment from casual to formal. Eva sources some of the most amazing fabrics available and offers them in an inclusive size range from 34 to 48. You can message her for personal help in finding your size too. If you're looking for a go to clothing resource, visit epilatebrand.com and enter the code "Dudcast 10" for 10% off your order. Were you shopping at like the PX at this point or like, yeah, I went to them as a child with my aunt whose ex-husband was in the Air Force and like, as a kid that collected baseball cards, it was revolutionary. Okay. We educate you here very quickly. Yes, please. If you ever run into another brat, you'll they'll know that your hip and on an Air Force base, it's not a PX, it's a BX. Okay. Because an Air Force base is a base, a base exchange. Do not call an army post a base, we were on base. We went to McClellan, so it was a PX, not a, yeah, for McClellan, yes. Okay. That was, that was a post. People call, people will say, you know, oh, yeah, you know, the, the army base. And yeah, there's, that's why it's a post. It's a post. It's an army post. I would always say we're on post. We live on post. We love this kind of like specificity, like language kind of straggly. Oh, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, a woman wrote a book about military brats back in the 90s. And she said, we were the largest invisible minority. And I always. That's interesting. I always, it's a good one. It is. It is. You know, we, we all have the same problems. We have a lot of mental issues and, and this depends too on what your father did. Sure. You know, there were fathers, there, I know military brats who dad, whose dads were judge advocate, which meant they were lawyers. They were doctors, you know, working on working in the post hospital. They didn't have the life I did. They usually stayed someplace maybe five years, maybe six years. And my dad was a green beret and he was a captain of an A team in Vietnam. And that is very different coming home. I've written this before, you don't spend your life either learning how to kill people, killing people, or teaching other people how to kill people and or a good parent. It's real hard to do. So, so some brats have that, that issue. And I've befriended some since the trad and there was another blog I wrote while I was writing the trad called I'm Here to Leave, and that was my army brat blog. Not many people read it, but it attracted some brats and, you know, I wound up talking on the phone with a lot of people who had, you know, fairly violent fathers. And we also all realize one thing about our fathers is that as they got older, they had great regret. So, a man, every one of them, you know, my dad was very stoic, he didn't talk much, very quiet, but, and I followed him in to special forces. You know, nine years after he got back from Vietnam, I enlisted in the army and went to seven special forces group and everybody there, all the cadre, they all knew my dad. Because they had all been in Vietnam and special forces was a small little world. And you know, it's still, you know, there are, there are issues that go with that, but at the same time too, there's, I was 16 years old. My dad didn't, when dad got back from Vietnam, we did not get along. But when I was 16, I told him I wanted to go jump out of a plane and that was the minimum age to go skydive. So we were, he was actually at NORAD. He was the public affairs officer there. But we went to Fort Carson and they had a sport jump club. And you know, he was with me every night during my training, my five nights of training to jump out of a plane, doing parachute landing falls. He was with me. And on the day of the jump, he was running around taking pictures. He was a big camera nut. And we go back to the club house and everybody's there and you had to buy the club a case of beer for your first jump. And Gordy, the president of the club, came over to me and he said, John, you know, if you're old enough to jump out of a plane, you're old enough to drink beer. So I sat on a parachute packing table with my dad smoking cigarettes and drinking beer. Wow. And we watched a movie called "The Gypsy Mods" with Bert Lancaster, oh man, who else? We can find out. We have this technology. Oh, the Gypsy Mods is just a beautiful movie about skydiving. I was just, you know, and suddenly, you know, we were suddenly pals, you know, we're telling each other jokes, like, you know, other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? You know, that was my first joke I ever told my dad and he was like, he was dying laughing. Gene Hackman, isn't it? Gene Hackman, right. Debra Kerr. Debra Kerr. These people. Yeah. It was just, it was, you know, they had a, I guess they had a 16 millimeter printer of it. And so, yeah, I mean, and here I am with all these guys. I mean, I, I, and I had, you know, this, this kind of started, I was thinking, this really started my attraction to being with older people. Right. You know, I didn't want to be with people my age and I sure as shit didn't want to be with anybody younger than me. I wanted to be, and that's, that's, you know, that was, that's, that's Charlie Davidson. Yeah. That's, that's Stephen Salin. That's Avery Lucas. It's these guys that have taught me so much and, and, and really the blog, I hear no money from that blog, but it gave me access to all of these people and, and to the back rooms of Paul Stewart and Brooks Brothers and, and to see really what was going on and how it was going on. I, I don't remember what year it was from, I think it was, you reposted it when Charlie passed, but uh, Julian, uh, Julie Herling was what I would call a friend and a mentor for me. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. He helped me get my job at Applelet when I moved to New York. He's, uh, has been also the same for my friend Matt Lambert, uh, that does factors collection now. Yeah. He was a special motherfucker. He was. Yeah. Like when, uh, I don't remember what the conversation totally was, but, you know, uh, you'd posted something about you guys like, uh, talking about Charlie and, yeah, yeah. It was, it was really special to read that again. Like, Charlie, he said Charlie was a bullshitter. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like Mr, Mr. Herling was one of a million, man. Yeah. And he said, don't get me wrong. He was taking me home because I was, I was, he was driving me back to my apartment, uh, because I, I got on the subway to see him in Brooklyn and he goes, I'll take you home. And, uh, and we're in the car and, and he said, yeah, he said, you know, yeah, I've no, he's like, I've known Charlie since 1946. He said, right. And he said, but he said, don't get me wrong. Charlie's a bullshitter. He said, but all retailers are bullshitters. Right. Um, part of the business. Yeah. It's the business. That's just how he was. Julie, Julie was so, I was really blown away by him. Yeah. The same. One of the, you know, he was in the same building as J. McLaughlin in Brooklyn and, and the one out once a week, I would, I would remember one of the McLaughlin brothers. I can't remember which one came down and I was talking to Julie and, and, uh, Julie said something to, to him about, uh, we're talking about, uh, he's got a, what do you call it? A blog? Yeah. You're talking about a blog and any, you understand any of this stuff and, and the one McLaughlin brothers said, yeah, yeah, Julie, I, I understand it. Um, and, and that's when J. McLaughlin invited me, uh, up there, and I, I got to see his place and I interviewed the two brothers and, um, I had this huge piece ready to go and they sold and I never ran it. Wow. Never ran it. Yeah. Yeah. I was really going out of a, you know, look man, everything changes and I have to understand I'm an old man now. I'm 66 years old and, and I have to understand that, you know, but everything's changing. Brooks brothers isn't what it used to be. Neither is J. McLaughlin, uh, neither is the Andover shop. Um, when, when, when people are lost like that, um, you know, uh, the, and same thing with Julie, you know, it, it just, everything changes. Um, and, um, sometimes not for the better, but, um, yeah, it, I'm glad, I'm so glad, I'm so fortunate, uh, that I, I just really got to experience it. Um, I got to experience, you know, this was, this was, this to me was, was like meeting, you know, uh, you know, an actor or, or, or a writer, you know, the blog got me. I met a gay to lease, um, you know, right in the blog that is insane, that is crazy. Well, he's a clothes horse, you know, yeah, no, I know. I mean, I just think that's like, I don't know the English guy, right? That's like, uh, go over it all. Yeah. The English have a word for it called a clothes mat and, um, you know, people who were mad about clothing and, and I, you know, I told that to, to gay and he's like, ah, that's, it's good. I never heard that. Um, so, yeah, I mean, I, I really consider, I, I, my roommate in college went on to become a, a very famous screenwriter and, and film producer, um, um, young guns, one and two, the babe Thunderheart. Oh wow. Um, and, and, and in fact, he, he told me that he based the Val Kilmer character on me in Thunderheart, um, cause, and, and, and actually a, another friend of ours, uh, had seen Thunderheart before he, I ever heard this from John, um, he called me up and he's like, have you seen Thunderheart yet? I said, no. And he goes, Fusco nailed you, um, and I was like, what, what are you talking about? I said, what are you talking about? Cause you, you, Val Kilmer is playing you, um, cause I always did want to be an FBI agent. But um, that was, you know, that was like, to me, the, the clothing business, man, that, that was Hollywood to me. It might as well just have been Hollywood. And I was in the right place for, I was in the center of the universe for it. Um, I wanted to ask about that. So you said your dad was a camera guy, right? Yeah. Um, so I had a dark room, he built a dark room when I was about 13, 14. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I know people used to have them in their houses, which is like amazing. Yeah. Uh, well, I wanted to ask, so if you go back way back to your early blogging, basically, there are these pictures that it's like, they were before their time. There's like a selfie in an, in an air, like in an airplane bathroom, you know, in the, like this, just really ahead of the curve with a lot of the stuff, especially with the blog and with the documentary photography, um, I just think really, I don't know, kind of cutting edge. So I wonder how you feel about it in retrospect. I don't, I don't know about cutting edge. Well, what was your doing that kind of stuff before many, many, many other people? I know that, but, but I, but I, I, all I was trying to do was document something, you know, and, um, and so that, that, I think that photograph in the, in the plane, funny, I remember this, um, was, you know, me flying from Jacksonville to, to New York, uh, to, to Newark, New Jersey and, you know, um, a get in a cab. And I've even, and I've got, I took photos in the cab, uh, a past in the city bus. You know, it was just me going, going to, uh, 235 East 57th street. What's like, and it used to be, it used to be like that. It used to be about here. I am eating a bagel again. Right. Right. Right. And you're not there anymore. Right. So I think maybe in some ways, I have going back to the, to 1960, um, I, I just have tons and tons and tons of photographs, uh, of, of, you know, hard copy, still black and white, polaroids, um, color polaroids, um, and, and, and to me, I, I'll, I'll tell you a a secret that I never told anybody about the blog. Here we are. I couldn't write a goddamn thing unless I had a picture in front of me. But when I saw the picture, it, it got me going. I could suddenly write a story, you know, um, and, and that, you know, that I don't, and I'm still like that, because I can never fucking write anything. So it's like maybe I need a picture. Look, I mean, a picture is a lot of inspiration. Yeah. You're not stealing, you're, you know, it's, it's just, it's your own generated. Yeah. And clothing, clothing is about, is about memory to me. I, you know, I have memories, like I told you of, of the, of the Nairu jacket. Um, you're speaking our language right now. I mean, you know, and I'm like rolling on my sleeves. Well, it's, it's like it's, it's just, you know, they, they are to me. Something, um, that, you know, I, I, I saw something somewhere, um, a woman said, you know, a friend told her that she should get rid of her clothes because she was getting a divorce, clothes that she had had with her husband. And I remember thinking, Oh, don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah. You want it. You want to keep those. Yeah. You want to keep those and you're going to regret it. If you throw them away 10, 20 years from now, you're going to regret that because I've kept, I mean, I've got, I've got underwear older than you guys. Um, I, I've got, I just, I won't let go. And this is another part of being a military brat. I don't let go of anything. No. Now, some military brats let go of everything. The other ones don't let go of anything. And there's not really much room I have heard from psychiatrists in between. You either, you either don't let go or you do. And so I'm like that with all kinds of things, clothing and, you know, the things in my head. It sounds a lot like my students, kind of many of whom have witnessed insane violence and like parents moving around all the time, moving like four times in one school year. So it's, yeah, I mean, I feel you. Yeah. Yeah. No, it gets, what do you teach? What does I teach reading in Baltimore city? Yeah, I teach reading like in the projects, basically. Okay. Okay. I taught, I taught English in, uh, in prison, um, to, uh, talk about doing that. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. And I taught, I taught, uh, I taught it to, um, I taught English to a group of Chinese ladies, there were six or seven of them. They, they, they're writing and they're, they knew English better than I did. I was just trying to teach them how to pronounce words, um, they were having problems with that. Um, but yeah, teaching English in prison, it was a female prison, um, and, um, um, the, the, the writing that I, the, the teaching I did in the Chinese group, uh, referred me to this prison and, uh, and that was, you know, man, I'll tell you, I remember getting in my car, leaving the prison to go home and thinking, I've never felt so good. I've never felt like I, you know, like I'm helping somebody, like I'm contributing something, like I'm doing something as opposed to selling commercial insurance for 22 years. Yeah. Um, it was, it was a night and day. It was really night and day. Um. You sleep very easily. Pardon? I said, I sleep very easily. Like. Yeah. Yeah. And you're doing work that is good. You, I don't know. It's like the other stuff. It doesn't matter that as much. Yeah. It's very true. Very true. Uh, John, how did you get started writing? Like what are the things that's always struck, uh, I think both me and Connor about your blog is just like the quality of writing that you do. The writing is way better than almost everybody else's. Yeah. Seriously. Like that. That's a blow up. You know, when it's stuck up your ass, but like, I, I followed you a long ass time and I revisited, uh, the past couple of days, like shit, I was struck by like the breadth of the writing and the like scope. I don't know. My parents are writers. It's good. It's amazing. I got to, I got to talk to you about that. Um, but I, I, I also have been diagnosed by the VA with PTSD, um, and, and I will tell you some of the backstory about that blog and people who complimented me on my writing. One was a, um, an editor from Esquire. Um, I remember I was living right behind Esquire at the time. I was on, um, he's 56th street. So I met him at the Starbucks there and, you know, we just met for the first time and, and he was telling me what a great writer I was. And at the time, I did not know I had PTSD. And I said to him, really? Well, you know, I mean, have you read much? I mean, I'm no Tom Wolf, man. And I'm no Thomas Wolf. You know, what are you talking about? Um, and he looked at me, really puzzled, like what is wrong with you? What is wrong with you? Uh, I don't take compliments. Well, I never did. I never did. And it's all right. I also, I also just didn't think my writing, you know, was at the level of, you know, Thomas Wolf's look homeward angel. I mean, I would, you know, I, I was just, I had that on my bookshelf. Oh, I love that book. I got the first edition to me when I had to rehab my mom gave it to me. Oh, man. Oh, it's, that's a good book. Yeah, it's beautiful. Um, and an interesting man, really, I was obsessed with him. He did, he had a relationship with the Southern writer, right? Yeah. From North Carolina. Yeah. And he moved to New York and got involved in an affair with a married Jewish woman, Alene Bernstein, who worked in the theater. She was like in costuming or something. And they had this wild affair. And there was a diary, which, you know, he, and they kept letters and all these letters have been published. The sex those two had was like amazing, you know, the, the both of them talking about it. And I just thought, wow, this is such a great story. And they, they went their separate ways and, and Wolf died at a very young age. I'm always going to be so happy we're talking about them. But, you know, it, it, it, I always thought it would make a, a great film. And, and I, you know, somebody did a film about Thomas Wolf a few years ago, um, but I asked him, right? Pardon? He was from Asheville, right? I think so. That area. Yeah. Yeah. And house is still there. The house is still there. I went to the house. Yeah. Yeah. His father was a, uh, his father carved gravestones and that's the, that's the premise of look at the commercial because all those old, you know, all those old great tombstone monuments. But, um, yeah, I, you know, I was such an, I mean, I, I don't know how to take a compliment. And, and I've had a few women tell me in my life, just say thank you and shut up. Um, but that's what they say is hard as you said and done, but, um, but yeah, and I, that was, uh, you know, to me, um, I've kind of been confrontational with people in a lot of ways who I just didn't think were doing the right thing. It's a real righteous indignation kind of thing. Um, and I've been doing it, you know, really, since I got out of the army, um, uh, yeah, I, I remember, you know, my first year in college, um, I went to a little college, Flagler College in St. Augustine and, uh, on the GI bill and loans and work grant and all kinds of stuff. And I had a teacher there who was doing a business class and he was talking about how pimps market and I, I was writing it down. Um, and I kept writing because I thought he was an idiot and I kept writing and, um, um, and he came over to me and he said, Oh, Mr. Tim Setha, am I, am I interrupting you? You seem to be writing quite a bit there. I said, well, you know, sir, um, I don't know if you know this, but, uh, I'm a veteran and I'm a pain my own way through school. You know, my parents aren't paying. I'm paying and I'm trying to figure out how much it's costing me to listen to you by the minute. Hey, do you like clothing that's well made? If you can listen to us, we assume you do. Our long-term comrade, Ava Kuehl, is the founder and created behind a gnarly brand called Evelyn. She offers thoughtfully designed and graphic garments made right here in the USA at a non bougie price. Evelyn with staples like the Doyle work jacket, the more directional Kanagata and the infamous Rivicino have been captivating her clientele for more than a decade. Commitment to offering unique, interesting fabrics and staunchly consistent fit is unrivaled from casual outerwear to made-order RTC, tailored clothing, Evelyn offers garment for any occasion. Visit epilnetferand.com and enter the code, dudcast10 for 10% off your first order. And uh, he asked to see me outside and they sent me to the dean, um, and the dean was an awfully nice man. And he's like, you know, John, you were in the army. You know better than that. Not to do that to somebody in front of an entire class, which is that to somebody in front of an entire platoon. I said, yeah, you know, you know what, Dean Carver, you're right. You're absolutely right. I was wrong to do that. But that guy did not come back the next year. And I think I had something to do with it. And I'm quite proud of that. I was going to ask, right? Because it's a, it's a, it's a collision of like, from the military, you're like, responsibility and like kind of a rigid schedule. You're meeting these people presumably who are like college freshmen who don't have any idea even how to eat breakfast, you know, they didn't even, they didn't know who John Lennon was. You know, that was when he got, that was my freshman year. People were like, who's John Lennon? Were the Beatles just like, I don't know, they, you know, I guess it's that, that age group that I was in, they were all, I was born in 57, they were all born in 61, 62. And I think, I think what happened was, you know, the Beatles were gone by 69. And even if they might know the Beatles, I think kids today have better knowledge of the Beatles and John Lennon, you know, than anybody did in 1980, the, the, you know, the 18 year old back then, you had to be a real musical. I think you had to be really into the Beatles. And maybe they were just too young. I don't know. I don't know. But you know, Casey and the Sunshine Band, they all knew, they all knew who they were. Right, right, it's that like generational torch passing, like the Beatles, I'm a music person. Like, I know their impact was like really big, but also like in the time, shortly. And then, yeah, and then like, you know, you had all this other shit in the, like, if these people were born in 61, they would have been coming of age in the mid 70s. And so, yeah, Casey and the Sunshine Band, like disco was waiting. Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of like difference in a very small amount of time. I remember my father had come back from Korea and like 1970 had been there a year. Yeah. And he went to Vietnam? This was Korea after Vietnam. The second infantry division was there and he was the public affairs officer, which is why he was a big camera guy. He was a writer, he was publishing newspapers and magazines. And anyway, my mother wouldn't let him draw it because he hadn't driven for a year. So she, and he was pretty rusty. And we went to go see the Beatles movie Let It Be. And we get done with it and we're driving home and he said, you know, those guys could shit in a paper bag and people would buy it. And I remember sitting there going, I don't know about Paul, George, or Ringo, but I'd buy John Lennon shit for $5. I mean, and I think they were, especially in my age group, you know, and I was just too young to go to their concerts. You know, I was, oh, I was hearing about people going. But their clothing was just, I mean, you go back and look at the photographs of those guys, especially in the late '60s and, you know, oh my God, they were just, and had Lennon's like whatever they wanted, right? Lennon's like wearing these, these, these shirts that look like they come from Turnbull and Asser. They probably did. He's wearing, it's a white collared, striped, loudly colored, you know, a dress shirt. God, I love those. Then you also do that. There's also that like famous picture of him in Yoko, and I think he's wearing like a type one with maybe like some '40s Wranglers and Chuck's, you know, like, yeah, these guys pulled... I think Paul probably sent that picture to me. I don't remember. I, because I think the point was the, the point was the shoes, yeah, the shoes are definitely up there. Well, that, that period of time too, you know, was, was just, you know, clothing was wild. And, and it started out right, you know, they started using, you know, they were using cotton and then along came the '70s. Right, right. Unfortunately, polyester got involved. Yeah. We are anti-polyester on this program. I've got, I've got a whole ration of, of magazines that were published by a man named William Siegel. One was called Gentry. Check it out. It's amazing. And another was called, it was about fabric. It was a trade magazine. And he published those two pages had had swatches, real swatches glued into the page. That's so sad. Yeah. You know the engine that anymore. Man, the, the, you know, it was just so sad when, when the '60s kind of petered out and then the early '70s came and then all this DuPont stuff just, just, it just really changed things in a lot of ways. You had that thing that we always talk about on this program as kind of interfered. Yeah. Yeah. I remember like. Is it cheaper, right? I mean, it's cheaper. It's huge. It's good. It's good to be perfect. It is great. It's plastic. And it doesn't, it doesn't shrink that you can make that stuff for spit and you don't have to worry how people wash it. You know, they go wash it in hot water all day long and it's not going to shrink. I was, I was talking to a friend of mine recently, who's in the business and we were talking about, you know, can anybody make a button down, you know, Oxford shirt anymore for less than $200. And, and he said, you know, and, and that you have a lot of money. You have to hang the dry because if you don't hang it, it will shrink. And I mean, I was, I was paying $185 for bespoke 10 years ago, you know, and suddenly, you know, and now the choices for button down shirts are small, medium and large. You don't even get an alpha size anymore. So I, you know, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's going to change again. All of this is going to change again. What do you think? What do you think? What happened? I, I, you know, I got an, I got an A on a paper one time that I wrote in high school. Yeah. About, you know, I had to, we had to invent things. And one of the things I invented was moving Pikes Peak to Florida and then moving the beach sand from Florida to Pikes Peak, where it used to be. And the big hole there, you'd finally have fucking water in Colorado somewhere, you know, I could go sailing and things would be great. That was one thing. And the second thing I invented was clothing that, that was just almost like silicone. And you could, you could control, you could control the temperature. You could raise or, or lower your temperature. So you didn't need coats, you didn't, you know, where you don't need coats. No. We like it. And actually we're going into a future where we won't need coats. And I could, I could go out, I could go outside and it's a hundred degrees and I have some cool. Yeah. Damn it. I was going to ask you something. I don't know how much time I had because my phone is, is on 10%. Oh, I said, all right, I'm not, I'm, I, I beg your forgiveness. I did not prepare well for this. You were doing a great job. So, uh, I can't remember what I was going to ask you. Unfortunately, I guess we'll have to edit this. No, it's okay. Cause we do. Yeah. So I, you know, here's what I was going to say, do you want to hear about our invention? Yeah. Oh God. Damn it. So long, long standing invention, genius brains combined, Matt Smith, Connor Fowler. We're thinking right. The bladder daddy, okay. So the bladder daddy, bladder, you're driving. You have to go to the bathroom. You relieve yourself into a bladder daddy, right? And you continue to drive. You can keep it in the little pocket in the door, kind of reverse camel back like reverse camel. Well, because even worse, I like that though, yeah, you know, write that down. That will go into the, that will go into the show copy. You know, we, we had something like that in the army on, on convoys, um, where, um, um, you would, you would pee into a can. Um, and, um, one time, um, driving down from spring break with John Fusco, the, the screen writer and the film producer, um, and a couple of other friends in the back of a Buick Duce in a quarter driven by, uh, another good friend. We were all going down to Daytona for spring break and, um, you know, I had to pee and, um, the driver said, Hey, you know, I'll, I'll pull over and I said, no, no, no, I learned this thing in the army. We don't have to pull over. And so I peed into my beer can and, um, and I forgot that all the windows were down. So when I threw the can of pee out the window, oh, no, it kind of, it kind of hit everybody in the back seat. Um, so, but they'd still do talk to me. Um, but, um, that's like, yeah, that's like, um, just beautiful poetry, really. They should, they should have something like, you know, why wouldn't they just have something come out from under the steering wheel that you, you put on and pee and take off and, you know, and we're really in uncharted territory now, um, on this program. Yeah. And I was thinking, do you have a, do you have a thing I know you do, something you're mourning, an article of clothing, you're mourning, that you can't replace that you won't find again. Um, let's not be too sad about it since we're just talking about piss for an hour, right? Right. Right. I do. I do. Um, I have an article. I still have it, but it's, it's, it's, it's falling apart. Um, um, um, when I was a park ranger and, um, um, and yeah, yeah, that's, that's basically incompetence. Um, and, um, that's me, that's what everyone says when they see my resume. And, um, a woman in St. Augustine was making by hand all of the linen small clothes that were reproductions of 18th century small clothes worn by the Spanish army working at the Castillo de San Marcos in St. Augustine, um, we wore an eight pound wool coat over it, but I have a, I still have the linen shirt and, and many women have tried to take it. Um, and it is anyone of any gender. Take your stuff. I don't, but, but girls are a different story anyway, but anyway, um, but this linen was kinda heavy. Um, and, but it's, it's got holes in it now and it's hard to wear in public, but it was one of the most comfortable things in the world. Um, I have that shirt. I have it has holes in it. I've been wearing it. I think you could do it too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I wanted to, I was in India for seven months and, um, I wanted, I wanted, I wanted, I was, I, they, they, they got the best linen I've ever seen. And I was like, you know, trying to convince the guy down there of making an 18th century shirt. Um, but, but I'm sorry. What is it that makes it an 18th century shirt in terms of like, well, first off, it's a pull over, you know, it's a neck with ruffled, um, ruffles along the, the V neck, but in, in real linen, uh, the shirt sleeves, uh, tie at the cuff. There are no buttons. You have to tie it. Um, and, um, it's about flare. There's that like a, that's like a renaissance sleeve. Right. Right. Well, they're, they're a little puffy. They're a little puffy, but not pirate shirt puffy. Um, um, it's more, it's, it's, it's kind of clean. But the amazing thing is, you know, I was wearing these things every summer on the, on the gun deck of this old Spanish fort in St. Augustine, it would be a hundred degrees. It would be 99% humidity and you had to wear a eight pound wool coat over it. But what would happen is when you got into the office, you know, to take a break or have lunch or whatever, you take the wool coat off the, the small clothing, the breaches and the shirt were soaking wet. And we just had fans in there and it was like the air conditioning was on. It was beautiful and it was the most comfortable stuff I ever, I ever wore. Um, I've seen, you know, um, I've seen the closest I've ever seen to it is a woman on the eBay who sells French, um, work shirts from the early, uh, 19th century. Um, and where they're just, that's all they are, linen, they're heavy linen, um, long sleeve, um, v-neck. That's it. And man, I, I, it's just the feeling of it is just amazing. It's just a wonderful, wonderful thing to wear. Um, I love it, I love it. Um, yeah, that's. And it's, it's, it's, it's from 1980. So it's getting ready to, to fall apart into little time pieces. I have like, uh, it's like an Italian shirt. It's like phonetti or something. It's like made up, uh, it's, yeah, it has holes all over it and I am probably just going to wear it until I can't wear it anymore. Yeah. I, I guess, you know, there's, there's a pair of pants that I have that I made with Charlie Davidson. It was fabric, um, that had been left over from, uh, a guy who, um, uh, was a very good client of Charlie's and, um, um, um, um, it was Marameco fabric and we, we did it together and, um, I, I, I will, I will cherish those. I might put those in my tombs, I'm not going to be buried, but anyway, um, I would, if I were to be buried, I would put them in my coffin with me, um, um, melt them down and put them in the urn, baby. That's what it's all about. Um, yeah, there, there are some things like that, um, but, but they're not so much because of what it was, you know, that, that, that, that linen shirt that was made by a woman, Gudren Hall, uh, she was German and she was married to my art professor at Flagler college. She made all of that clothing. And so I know who made it, um, and she was a, we were, we were good friends. We were, we were all very good friends. That was a nice thing about going to college as a 23 year old freshman was, you know, the, the faculty were, were a little bit more, you know, you could get out, you could drink with them. You know, I mean, they were, they seemed to, I had been in the army. I, I made sergeant before I got out, um, I was in an airborne unit, um, and I had a lot of stories. So I recognize you as an adult, you know, and I had, and I had a Fiat X one nine, um, which was the biggest piece of crap, uh, a, a great looking car, but it broke all the time. I think that's why they call it fixing it in Tony, but, um, yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun and it was a great, it was a great time to have, have been there and been with those people and they stay, you know, obviously they, they stay in the forefront of my mind. I can't remember what the hell I had for dinner yesterday, but I know that very well, man. Hell yeah. Yeah. John, this has been awesome and, uh, we are definitely need to have you back on the second time. Uh, yeah. I, I would be happy to. I would be happy to have the phone charged next time. Don't, don't drag this out too long. No, no. I may, I may. I may get that out. I'm on. Yeah. Yeah. I'll get to you with this last question. What is your view of menswear in 2024? Well, um, I'm trying to be positive and it's, and it's hard. It's hard, man. I feel it. I feel it. You can just let your free cake fly, you know, I guess here's my, here's my view. At the more, the more world menswear becomes or any clothing that it's, that it's, that it's not so much like, like, you know, I can go to India and make anything. I can make my neighborhood jacket in India, you know, with the internet, um, with, with communication with, with the fabric that's up to, I can order fabric from India a whole lot less than I would pay for it in the States. Even with the shipping, you know, the world is open to us. Um, and, and I would say too, that, you know, the other thing is that we can go on eBay and by 18th century silk, you know, I mean, I, I, this crap was hard to find, um, in, in, in the eighties and the nineties, if not impossible, but it's everywhere now. And so it's really, you know, I think it's a good, you know, that's the good, you know, that's my positive side of this is that the internet and, and the manufacturing and, and being able to see like 10, 10 and snowy being able to see these things in other countries that you were just, you never knew about and you can educate yourself about it in a heartbeat. It's not hard at all. I think that's great. And if you've got a little bit of imagination and like to, you know, tweak things a little bit, um, man, you know, or to go out and to go out and buy a French Lenin work jacket from 1930, um, um, you know, it's, it's, it's 50 bucks and it's, I think it's maybe free shipping. Yes. Absolutely. And I think we're, yeah, we're all on the same page, like, yeah, overall, and as many problems as the internet that arise like in that positive. I think the suits dead too. I got to say that. We'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. I blazers blazers never, but, but I just don't, I just don't know about why anybody would have to go where a suit to work unless they're in insurance and even those people don't do it anymore. Right. Yeah, we're, we're all, uh, just, you know, eating popcorn on the sideline and see them. Uh, it's very true. Yeah. Well, dude. Thank you. Thank you, Matt. Thank you, Connor. Yeah. I appreciate it. Yeah. Well, we'll definitely have you on sooner than later. Oh, it's very nice of you. Thanks. We would like, uh, give you a chance to shout out whatever you want to. So I shattered it out big. We're all, we're, I think we're good. We got it. Yeah. And thank you. I, the trad, uh, the, your cousin, legend theory, you're coming, please, wait, wait. How many legends have you met? Come on. Come on. I mean, yeah. I'll just turn into a toad, Matt. Yeah. There's something. All right. Cool. Well, guys are great. Thanks a lot, man. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much. Um, everyone, thank you for listening. Um, I am Matt Smith at Rubble's Rogues. And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor flower. We are at Apocolipssoz on Instagram, Apocolipssoz@chima.com, if you want to send us an email. All right. Cool. See you all next week. Take care, gentlemen. Thanks, Matt. Bye bye. All right.
