Monsters Up North Podcast
Monsters Up North - The Man Behind The Make Up Doug Jones
It's a perfect night for mystery and horror, the air itself is filled with monsters. Oh well hello all you monster fiends and thank you for joining us for another deep dive fact I filled episode exploring Hollywood's most famous monsters. I am your mistress of teramode Sam and I am joined as always by Dan from Bleeder Marvelous. Say hello Dan. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the monsters of north podcast. Today is really special. It's a really special dear. Audio listeners are not going to see Dan's great hand movements. That was very theatrical wasn't it? It was. It's not a very expressive gentleman that we are talking about today. Oh it's going to be a good one. Probably a bit conergy. I've got to say because the filmography of this person is incredibly long and my notes are incredibly chaotic. I don't even know what to start. I even sat after work going. I don't feel like I've done any of this justice. We're just going to have to go with it and see how it plays out. I will do the disclaimer and then we will get into this week's episode. Everything discussed in today's episode is our opinions and opinions alone. If you'd like to discuss anything from today's episode, a please come and join us on our Facebook pages, the discord or even the comments section where we can have an open discussion. But what we won't have is anyone comment for us and tell us our opinions are wrong because we can all agree to disagree in fandom. So let's keep it fun. Keep it kind of fun. Keep the toxic behaviour out of a nerdism. Don't be a danny. Dick. Dick. That's the word we're looking for there. That was such a horrible laugh. Like I have an obnoxious laugh to start with but that was horrible. I apologize to anyone who had to listen to that. Yes, that's a thing. Well, Doug Jones born May 24th 1960 is an actor, contortionist and mime artist best known for his incredible work in Hellboy, Pan's Labyrinth and the beautiful shape of water. Everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of fear. As Monsters of North brings you, the man behind the make of Doug Jones. That was actually one of his courts. I hope to God it was a genuine one because I've been caught out a few times in my Instagram and posts and years of quoting Marilyn and getting told off people she didn't naturally say that. So I hope I was writing that. I thought it was absolutely, do you know what? I could have picked any one of the courts that I saw because that man just speaks so elegantly and be beautiful. Oh, my favourite quote that I actually have heard him say from his mouth is, pain is temporary, film is forever. When people ask him about his how he has to sit for prosthetic work, he's not a complacent gentleman when it comes to these things. Because even now when people say to him, you know, how long did you have to sit for this one? That one and he's like, oh, seven hours about, you know, and they're like, I'll be raging at that point. And he's like, no, no, it's fine. It is what it is. I know I have to sit with this discomfort and sit with this general feeling to get used to it, to be able to then walk out that door and give the best possible version of what I'm dressed as. There's people. Yeah. And there's been many names for what he does. And I watched it a short earlier of Gamelio del Toro. And he said he's a performer. He's an actor. Because there's a lot of there's a lot of names that goes with the type of work that he did in the offset to he is a performer and he is an actor. And he is, he is a modern-day Karloff, he is a modern-day Lon Chaney. And he should be celebrated to the high heavens for the cinematic beauty that he brings to each and every character. I mean, there's going to be a lot of gushing when it comes to this episode, because there is not one bad thing I can see about this man. No, this man has always been on my radar ever since I was... Hocus Pocus came out in '92 and turns came out in '91, '92. '92, Hocus Pocus. I'm going to, actually, my lines are out a bit on there. I'm just going to retreat to May 1 on here. Batman Returns was '92, Hocus Pocus was '93. Yeah. So I was in the right ballpark because I haven't got that written down in years. So that would have made me 12 and 13 when I first started seeing Doug on UK accessible to see Doug. Because before then, Doug had had a huge career, well, he'd had a huge advert campaign in the '80s take off. Yeah. Which gave him three years, 27 commercials and a character that he kick-started. He's... They enabled him to get into a place where he was allowed to, you know, have a door that was slightly open for him to be able to move into movies and take that, you know, people would give in recommendations based on how well he sat, what a lovely gentleman he was, how he'd be good at this, that and the other, the McDonald's campaign he got for the Mac tonight. Mac tonight. We didn't get that over here. We didn't have that ad campaign over here. So it basically was, when I saw the video, it is Doug in a suit and he has got a crescent moon he's wearing. Now I can empathise to a degree because if you've got kids listening, why? But secondly, this is where the magic will be taken out of it. When I worked at Butlins, I have done what we used to call skin work, which means you were inside characters. So I have played Naughty. I have played Tessie Bear. I have played Eat the Cat, Casper the Ghost. Lots and lots and lots of big characters that they had the licence in for us to use. Now, having been inside those things, I can understand to a degree, not the prosthetic work, but when you have like the heads and stuff on, you can't always have fans inside. You can't have like, you just die quietly. That's pretty much your legacy. It's absolutely hideous places to be in the seat as well. And yeah, we call it skin work, because you're wearing someone else's skin. It's absolutely wild when you look at it, when you break down to why it's called that. But yeah, so I can empathise. My Battinger is 20 odd years ago. That was something that a lot of us did, a lot of us worked. But I didn't do Power Rangers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles because I'm just too small for that. Because that's a lot of Lycra. I'm not really one for Lycra. I mean, that's best not seen in any way. We have gone a year and a bit. And we've talked about some of the greatest make-ups and costumes. And this is the time you decide to pull that one out the Well, it felt organic, what can I say? Oh my goodness. Yeah, so I can appreciate how heavy these things are, how you have to be strapped into them, how you have certain sections that you have to be zipped in and locked in. Some have like, you know, like the buckle, like not like a belt buckle, but like the plastic snap buckles that you have to wear. Yeah, because these things are so heavy. And yeah, it's insane. But 27 ads campaign over a three-year period made him enough to buy his first house. Yeah, I saw that. You really suffered for your art, didn't you? Me. Yeah, yes, because I had to go out and take my boobs down. Oh, Jesus. See, this is where I would have been perfect because I don't have any. So I'd be like, I'll be glad you're here. Nodie, as our, for our US listeners, Enid Blighton wrote a story called Nodie. Nodie was this naughty little boy who lived in Toyland. And basically, he's a boy. So they could only use people around five, one to five, three to play Nodie because the costume was so tiny. And no boys were that size when we were at buttons. All the boys were like six foot, five, eight, five, 10. You know, they were typically of a certain size. So girls played Nodie. And a girl went on holiday that played Nodie, but they still needed to send Nodie out because it was school holiday time. So they said to me, okay, you can go out as Nodie, but we're going to have to sort of deal with this because Nodie's a tiny, tiny boy. You're clearly a 20 year old woman. I was like, insides are shooting from Luffin. So the gaffer tape came out needless to say that was the one and the only time I ever agreed to do that because, no, thank you. I mean, it's great. If you are somebody that needs to bind and this isn't anything to do with like finding or anything like this, this is just a comment about someone who was forced to have to have a flat chest for aesthetics, reasons to play a character. That was severely uncomfortable. So I can't imagine the things that Hugg has gone through. No, it's insane to me. But the thing is about Doug I found out, there isn't a lot about his personal life. I think it's nice because it's very much like Rick Bierger, isn't it? Yeah, you don't get a lot of... Yeah, people aren't always as private as sometimes they should be. People feel the need to live their life out there, especially now there's a pressure for all celebrities to be accessible all times, but everything. And I don't think that's necessary. Like a bit of mystery. Yeah, I mean, Doug has been married to his wife now for 40 years. She is. Yeah, in 1994, he married his wife. And she was his sweetheart. Oh, I'm going to stop a sweetheart and they got married. He left, when he left, I want to say it was Ball State University. She had her to graduate and once she graduated, they got married. And it's just a lovely story to think that 40 years later that Hollywood hasn't affected the situation and they're still together. Oh, because he's... Doug is such a... He's one of those rarities that come around of an actor-actor. He's in it for the art. He's in it for the love of the art and the love of the performance. It's not... The paycheck helps, obviously, because it gives you a life. But he has taken a lot of roles that a lot of roles, just to be able to get his foot in the door and then create this career of just, "Oh, breath-take and breath-take and work." Yeah, he started off when he... He was a bit of a... These are his own words, by the way. I've seen many in interview. And these are actually coming from him specifically. These are like watered down. But he was always the oddball at school, which you can understand happens. Well, I can... You can... It's an empathetic situation, trust me. But when he got to eighth grade, which I think puts them, puts him at about year nine, for us in production. Okay. So when he got to eighth grade, he did a little skit at school and people found out he was actually quite funny. He might have been weird, but he was funny. So he sort of got a bit of leniency then. But he said that everyone knew him, but nobody really wanted to be his friend. So he was a killer, but not close to anybody, you know, respect. So his best friend was the television. Now, been there, know what that feels like. I'm just like, beyond, you know. So it wasn't the television for me. It was the radio as I loved the radio. I loved... It goes to show who I am today. I love talk show radios. So I used to listen... In the north, we... On BBC... I want to say BBC New Castle, people who were listening will be screaming in correction as if I'm wrong. But I used to listen to a guy called Mike the Moth Elliot, who was just like... He used to have people calling and there was just ramblings and it was river. But then night owls was afterwards with Alan Robson, and I always remember he's Halloween specials because he always went to children and castle. Oh, great. I was a really old person. Yeah, I was a TV. I was a TV. I used to get lost in TV. But he got lost in like... the Dick Van Dyke show, Carol Burnett, Mary Tyler Moore. They were all what he considered his friends, you know, and he also liked the movies with Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin and character actors. You can see the influence to a degree massively. But he said that they were like, that was where we wanted to go. He knew that's where he needed to be if he wanted to continue. That's crazy that you said Buster Keaton. Yeah, he said if he wanted to be their friend, because that's how he saw it. If he wanted to be their friend, he knew he had to get on TV to be their friends. My heart is broken. At year nine, which puts him at about 15, 14, when he's thinking these things, which is absolutely heartbreaking. But at 14, 15, I was in exactly the same position, you know. Everybody knew me, but I don't think I really had any close friends at that point. So, you know, and you go home, you watch a TV because you feel comfort in it, you know. So I completely understand it. But it wasn't until he moved to university that he actually found what he really loved. And this was the thing he went to Buster University, and he met with a guy called, I want to say his name was Reed Steele. Yes, it was because I have just watched a video about him. And Reed Steele was the head of a MIME troupe at the university. And do you know what the MIME troupe is called? Oh, if you see it, I'm going to remember it. MIME over matter. Got a love pun. Got a love pun. We do love puns. And that's where they took him under their wing. And they, well, basically, they showed him what they did. He auditioned, he got in, and MIME became his love. You know, it then became a way of him being able to be comical and kooky and do his contortionist. Yeah. Oh, my God. What do you can do with his body? For a six foot, have you ever person? I mean, I think he's six foot. He might be, he ran around there. For a gentleman of his height, he's very bendy. He's very bendy. He reminds me of my my parents' Rhodesian Ridgeback, but she shouldn't be able to bend her. She's a giant, and she shouldn't be able to bend her legs the way that she does. There was something really lovely you said about the MIME, when he was talking about his time in MIME, was that he learned a lot about himself, and being able to characterize things without doing a great deal, and really looking at human, like the human psyche and everything. It was just very, really powerful and beautiful, what he said about something that a lot of people will look at and go, the fuck are you doing? But he said he saw windows where they said there was a window, where they were acting there was a window. He saw the door, he saw the brick wall. He saw those things when these people were doing that. So he knew something clicked inside of him. Yeah. But when he left, when he left uni, he got a job in working in a bank, because obviously he was just got married to his sweetheart roughly. He got transferred to Beverly Hills. So he was living in Indianapolis, I think, Indiana somewhere. Yeah. And he then got transferred to a bank in Beverly Hills. And as we all know, Beverly Hills is where the money is. So it's where all the rich people come in and all the famous people come in. So he'd get a lot of actors come in and, you know, deposit the money or talk about banking and things like that. And somewhere along the line, he plucked up the courage to ask them, you know, how do I get like you? How do I get to where you are? How do I get to be in in films, you know, starring and they said, this is where you need what you need to do. And this is, you know, you just have to keep going. And you're talking way back when, you know, we're talking a long time ago. So opportunities were now everybody wants to be an influencer or everybody wants to be a movie star or everybody wants to be a singer, because the opportunities are afforded now. Whereas back, they're endless. Yeah. Back then there wasn't, you know, you had 75 people are because everybody there was just as talented as each other. But now it's like, how many hours have you got? Okay, you can go on the show, you know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So he started, he started doing advertising because that's what they said, get your foot in the door with advertising, and you're able to move forward. So I don't know whether he met him in the bank, but he met a gentleman called Phillip Carr, who worked at the LA commercial workshop, who was like his acting coach kind of member, which took him, he loved Doug enough that he said, right, you need to come to my day job, which is, I run, or I'm part of the Wilhelmina agency at the time, which was one of the biggest agencies in Hollywood at the time. So Doug was like, yeah, okay. So he turns up and he was genuine. You know, it wasn't just one of those half-assed, I'll call you in the morning, babe. You know, like Neil Marshall said that the only person that he said to this day, it's that way his word was Brian Fuller. So, you know, it's one of those things where there's a handful of people in Hollywood who would make you contrast. So that's where he got his first job as a Southwest Airlines, in a Southwest Airlines video as a mummy. I watched a video of literally a montage of everything he has done from his commercials up to his big hits, and I saw that. Yeah, it's insane. The second one he became, he was an alien in it. Third one, he was a nerd for Bob's big boy, Burgers, I think it was. And then he went on to do the Mac tonight, but the very first one he did as the mummy was the the thing that enabled him to get his SAG, you know, SAG card, which is- Oh, yeah. Green Actors Guild card, which is the UK. We have the equivalent of an equity card is the difference. So he was able to then become a fully fledged member so he could get union work, which was something that obviously, as we know, is easier if you are a SAG member because you're afforded a little bit more respect in the- Yeah, you kind of put, it's like, if that's not in the door, it's just your toes are there. Just about the tip of the toes there. Yeah, I just thought that sort of sets you up for where you are when he starts going into films. Movies. Yeah, so- So let's dive into his movies. Now, I'm going to do a very similar to how we've done in the past. We're going to go through a list of his movies and talk, and then we're very respectful and talk about the ones that we have seen because my goodness, Doug, has been in our lot. He has been in an incredibly huge amount of films and cute-offs to him because I feel like he's a man that never says no, which isn't a detriment at all. No, it's not. Because he doesn't experience everything in one way or another. Or he's- As we go along, I'll explain when we get to certain ones about the stories behind them, but I genuinely feel that he's just wanting to get experience to play whatever character that is they're offering. Well, because you never know what the next role is. You play this one character that could potentially be a stepping stone for another one or in another one. And the way that I looked at it when I was watching him today was that he had such a clear vision of the work he wanted to do. It's not like he set out to be an actor just on his own. He was happy to become anybody in whatever capacity that meant. The first three movies that he does is from 1987, '99 and '91. This is the newly deeds, '90 Angel and Colonel Crimes. I've never heard of any of them. I've heard of Colonel Crimes, but I haven't seen it. It sounds saucy, Doug, let's be honest. Colonel Crimes, it went direct to videos. I mean, I am doing this episode like the man himself is actually going to listen to it. Just based off what happened at the weekend, but I want to make it very clear. I've not seen a lot. We know this about me. Just don't take a person. That's the balance right there. The next one I have seen. And I remember seeing him distinctly on this one. He did the 1982 Batman Returns. He is the thin clown and he is very noticeable, like, not just because of his size, but if you know a dog's face, you're like, "Oh shit, Stug Jones." I mean, you probably wouldn't have an 82 because, you know, but when you head back and watch it now, yeah. Yeah, he is not very highly prosthetic in this one. It is more make-up based, which the Batman Returns is more make-up based. The only prosthetic I can think of at the top of my head is David Orr. Yeah. I mean, this was the thing I loved about the little story told about this one. He said that he went into the audition with one of either the casting managers or the director, one of the, like, DPs or something like that. And they said, "Right, do that thing you just..." What is it you can do for us to be a circus performer in the background because that's what he thought he was getting. He knew he was up for one of the parts like that, and he did something anyway, and this guy walked off, come back with Tim Burton, and went, "Do that thing again you just did, but for Tim." So Tim Burton was standing next to him, and he was just like, "Okay." And then he did his thing, whatever it was he did. And Tim Burton went, "Yep, you got the part and walked off." And Doug said to the guy, "What part?" I don't know what I was auditioning for. They basically created that part in part for Doug, and he got one line in it as well, which I thought was interesting. What did he say? "Great speech was old, and then..." Boosh him in the face. I haven't discussed on many of an occasion. That is my favourite Batman always will be. I love Danny or as well. So yeah. Just so you know, I picked the design of that tattoo that she has on her arm. She gave me three options. Picked one, she remembered it. You've got content, don't lie. Don't be lying. And the next one is the one that if you say Doug Jones, and someone goes, "Who?" and you'll go Billy Butchison. They'll go, "Not Carl Urban." He's, "Let's kick us, Billy Butch." Yeah, let's get that one right. This is Billy Butchison from Hawkes Focus in 1993. This is probably the first movie that I see in my younger years in Gore that makeup looks fascinating. I don't want to dare say that's the starting point of my makeup fascination. But I will say it very heavily influenced it through time, because the choice and design work of Billy is so interesting. And everything he did was practical. The moths coming out of his mouth, all practical. Throughout these films, and we'll obviously get into them, he doesn't have, it's not that he has a hatred for CGI or anything. He likes it when the two can blend together. Yeah. But on this, he did it all himself. I don't know, it was 1993. I mean, I can't imagine of what have got awful that would have looked like going back now, if it was going to be. But that's what he said. In the video I've watched of him, he said, you know, in, in now time, we would just CGI them, moths coming out of my mouth. But in 1993, I did that. I all came out. And I even just to go into the future, in Hook's Focus 2, I love how they could have really messed up Billy's makeup, especially with makeup techniques that we have of today that we didn't have or were not evolved back then. And they didn't. I very much appreciated that. Yeah, they, they kept it very much in the right, in the right place. I mean, to be fair, I would say that as a 12, 13 year old, Billy Butcherson was the first proper, non-scary zombie I was introduced to. Did you, did you wonder what he looked like in before he was dead? No, I accepted that was just Billy. I didn't really overthink it too much because I was too busy thinking I was going to be Bette Midler when I was older. Oh, I thought I was going to be Sarah Jessica Parker, how fucking wrong am I? I am Mary all the way through. Oh, when I was a little kid, you used to be able to do this thing where you could take the soundtrack off of the TV because you could plug your, your auxiliary cable from your TV into your hi-fi. I used to be able to like, I recorded, I put a spell on you, right? For the movie and I paid it over and over and over again. I mean, no, we're off by heart. Even the bits were on recats and Danny, I've gone blank on her name, Dawn. There's a thorough, thorough birch. There we go. It was a, the mental role of Dix wasn't going over as good as I wanted it to. People used to say I used to look like thorough birch when I have a Bob Cush. Honestly, since the film The Whole, I can't look at it the right way that film is. Oh, I love the film so much. It's insane. But she, there's a bit where they talk in the middle of the film, and I know exactly where it's coming. I know the words. I say it every time. And it's, love it. Here he is. Yeah, you don't realize, but Doug's chasing them all the way through this. And it's like, he's a friendly zombie. In the end, he becomes Danny's friend. Yeah, it's, it's, he's just wanting to get his mouth open so he can say his final piece to his old girlfriend that he disliked so much that he had to call her a wench, a product, a buck tooth, buck-briding, I have flop it from hell. It's such a Disney thing to see. I went all really you want him to see is, can't fuck yourself. Your sister, and when Sarah's gone, hi, Billy, and he goes, you know, you just like, yeah, okay. Yeah, I went through my whole childhood thinking I could be Sarah Jessica Parker and I'm married. I've, I've, I've accepted the, I've accepted my fears. I've met, I am married. I've met Cathy. Have you? Yeah. Is she nice? She's lovely. I mean, Cathy to me was married, but she wasn't married. She was also in sister, yeah. It was a bigger part of my life. Billy, I hope this focus, because I suppose it was one film, Sister Act was two by 93. So I'd, I've managed, you know, but Cathy Najimi in there, she was the first. She's the only one who sings her actual lines, that's for damn sure. Yeah, and she, she was someone that, when you didn't feel like you were traditionally shaped, shall we say, she was one of those people that I looked up to, because I thought she just embraced herself. The comedy, the whole thing, and, you know, and that's why I loved Cathy. And then when you put her in, she, she's not sister, I got blank on her name and bloody sister as well, but when she's married, she's everything about us goofy, her face, like how she held her face like that for so long. I don't know. She struggled in the second one mind. You could tell it was a lot of struggle. Yeah. But as a comedy actress, Cathy Najimi is, she was like, she, she, she complimented Bette Midler so well, because obviously Bette had then been, she, at that point, she done beaches, ruthless people, was it? Yeah, there's a laundry list, but she was, she was known as, for all, she sang in the majority of the stuff she did. She was kind of known as a bit of a serious actress. Yeah. And then she was riding high at that point as well, but she was coming off the back of all that. And I was, my granddad absolutely loved Bette Midler. So, you know, I used to sing all the songs, and then all the songs, Bette Midler was the woman I aspire to be still do. She's, she's, hey, she's amazing. I know, I know, I don't actually, I don't know how people feel about what this book was to, because I never really paid attention, because I think fucking loved it. I got such a nostalgia burst from it. I loved the, you, anything with Bette Midler singing, I loved that scene where they're singing. I got absolute chills. There was nothing in that movie that did not make me smile. And if that's what I'm taking from it, then I'm happy with that. And that's the thing, if it is, is how a movie makes you feel, if you enjoy it, and the deep, I didn't so much, because I just didn't feel like we needed a second one. I get that. I don't get it. It's actually the third. Definitely don't need it first. No, but that's, that's why, that's where we are in this world, isn't it? We get one thing. The Hawkers pork would have stood the test of time and is 10th and the test of time, especially in our community, because it is a staple of October viewing is October, November, December, January. Do you know, it is something that will always be there. There's, I just, I kind of waddington was in it. Come on. I, and I, as we will know, I go to Salem. So I've seen a lot of the sites I've seen. I've seen the houses, I've seen the town hall, I've seen the streets, you know, I've seen it all, and that's where I got engaged, and that's where I'm planning on getting married. So for me, it's like Salem's a beautiful, beautiful, well, it is just like home, the weather is exactly the bloody saying. Yeah, yeah, any video I've seen of Salem, it's like, that could be England. Yeah, wet and lots of leaves, that's Salem. What's a lot of leaves? Well, the next movie in the same year, 93, is the magic is magic kid. And it's just his role is clown in office. You know, I've not seen a director video. The next one actually shocked me a little bit. He only plays a very small partner, but it is one of my, I don't want to say it's one of my favorite movies, because it's not, it is one of my favorite graphic novels. It's 1995 Tank Girl. He played additional Ripper. And the minute, the minute I saw him on screen, I went, yeah, that's him. That is him. You can see his face and everything, because he could with the rippers. They're like, you can tell that they iced tea is iced tea. There's no hide in the fact that that's iced tea. Yeah, honestly, I loved Tank Girl. Laurie Petty once stole my phone. Of course, she did. She did honestly. No, I'm not an adult. I love you no doubt. One of those random situations where I was at dragcon in LA and queuing up for a photo I should do. And because she had my phone, she didn't know how to work my phone. So she grabbed my phone and she was like, this piece of shit, she went off with it, she come back. And she went, right, I think I've worked it out. And I'm like, okay, and I'm standing there. And like, she takes a load of selfies, me and Laurie Petty. And then she takes loads more on the floor. And then there's some more of a wall. And then she ran off from her phone again, she come back and went, I forgot to give this back to you. So she stole my phone. And I'll stand by it. I love it. You've got to have kept all the photographs she took of the walls. The floors and the walls. Yeah, I want to keep them ended like a whole, a whole album. Laurie Petty's a hot work. Laurie Petty stole my phone. Yeah, I love that. I do love the film. It's nonsensical, but the graphic novel is nonsensical too. Yeah, technically, if you look at the story line, it makes no sense. It's an iconic character though, you know, it's all iconic. And she made it iconic. Yeah, even if you don't know the movie, you'll know the imagery. You just know that that's what that is. So yeah, I mean, yeah, I've seen that a lot, but there's not really much to talk about in that respect. No, not respect it. Not not of him anywhere because he is only in a for a short period. And the next one, '96 is Galgomer. No, no, sorry. The '97 is Mimic. Yes. Now, I have not seen Mimic. Right. But when I saw the monster he played, which apparently is Long John, I was intrigued. That monster looked beautiful. Now, this is the film where a certain Mr. Galgomer de Toro is introduced to the certain stones. Now, Dagen was only supposed to be on set for one day to play Long John. And most of the effects in this were digital effects because he's technically a big bug, right? Wings and everything. Yeah, it's it's Mirasavino. And there's lots of other people in it. I did actually want to watch it, but with the other things I watched, I just didn't get time because like I said, I was trying to find things that I didn't, I hadn't seen before or one that I wanted to go over to in a bit. But they, there's a story that he told about how he was sitting eating lunch on day one after I think he'd either shot half of his, you know, scenes and he was having a lunch break. Guillermo de Toro came over and sat down in front of him, hands on his like this and went, right, tell me everything you've done. And he said, then Doug just sat there, he said, I just went, okay. And he I told him about all the movies I've been in and all my experience and like prosthetics and things like that. And he said he was like a sponge Guillermo de Toro was just taking everything in and he would say it. And he said to him, do you have a card? So Doug said, yeah, yeah, I do. And he gave him a card anyway. So Guillermo put it in his wallet. And he kept it in his wallet for five years, that card, because when the part of Abe Sapien came up, he pulled the card out of his wallet and went, I know exactly the guy I want to play this. And so we will, we will get into it. We'll get there. But that one, I thought was a lovely story, because that's Guillermo. That's how he is. He has to, he pulls everything out of everybody, because he's so thirsty for that knowledge of the relationship between these two is, is absolutely breathtakingly beautiful. And it's watching the video I watch was a history of his career. And you can see the change and hear the changes, the movies go on and how we talks about him. And at the end of the, at the end of the program, he said, you know, I want to do this for as long as I can possibly do it, this prosthetic work and working or working with prosthetics is my life. If I don't die in a rubber suit on a Gailmaro del Toro movie, then I've not done it right. And the fact that he put him in that sentence with it just goes to show how beautiful. I mean, I honestly urge anyone just to, the videos are all on YouTube that I watched. And any, anything that you watch with Doug in that talks about his career, he is going to talk about that friendship. It is fucking beautiful. He's an incredibly passionate man as well. In the sense of not, I'm not talking about romantic work. I am to a degree, he romanticizes his work. He's passionate about giving the best he possibly can. And the only way he feels he can do that is if that when he reads the script, he has that connection or he feels like he can understand the purpose of the character of he. He can bring out the things that the character does. So it's, his life has been his passion project to be honest with you. Yeah, that's totally, totally right. And the next one in the same year is Warriors of Virtue. Sorry. 98 is a bugabuster and denial for director videos. There is a lot when there is a lot of stuff that he does, which I feel like he's experimenting with possibly. Yeah. And the next one is actually, if we're going to talk about time travel, is the movie that I did last night. Yes. Which we're going to go with. If we're going to watch, if we're going to come back into the present, I will be watching, like that's where we are right now recording on the Thursday, I'll be watching at the weekend, is mystery men. Yeah, he played pencil heads. And I can't talk a great deal about this because this is my movie for the weekend. We'll skip over it. But needless to say, he was in good company, Jenny and Greer out again. You know, Ben Stiller. Ben Stiller. We've got all Ruben's. Please, I kind of. Mr. Peevey Herman, Hank Azura. The list is endless. And I have to say, I absolutely love that film. And it's not given enough love in my opinion. And I'm so glad you guys are doing it because it's part of our graphic novel. It's needed to be done. Mystery Men is a is a is a genius stroke of work. It's the what ifs people took it upon themselves. Yeah. Is that movie as a whole? I have actually think I have seen it. Yeah. But I can't remember when. And it could just be I've seen a lot of clips of it. And this is where I'm like, right. So I'm really looking forward to watching it to like to actually watch it. And I don't know how I'm going to deal with Paul Rubens. I'm still he's not in this film. So you'll be fine. You'll be fine. I'm still not I'm still not quite over it. And every time I think of him, I get a little teary because when it comes to character actors, he is probably one of the greatest and he's can fight this on it. I don't care the indiscretion that he had. It was in the grand scheme of things was. I don't think too bad. I hope not. Judging by today's that. Yeah, that's true. And he also did in 1999 three Kings. And 2000 stalled. The adventures of Rocky and Bullwinkle. Right. Okay. FBI agent carrot. Nope. And okay. This one intrigues me and I feel like if this is what I think it is, we may have to do this as an episode one day. Jack Frost too. Revenge of the mutant killer Snorman. It is the part of the Jack Frost series. Yeah. Is it a horror? Yes. Because this is the problem. Right. There is the horror Jack Frost, and then there is the Michael Keaton Jack Frost, right? And this isn't anything to do with the Michael Keaton Jack Frost. This is a separate entity. One is serious. The first one is hilarious. And the second one is hilarious. I don't know if they're intended to be funny, but this potentially could be our Christmas end. That's one. So I'll happily take on for the team there. And 2001. Sorry. Something called Steven Spielberg's movie. We played Donald Columbus and another movie called Monkey Born, which he played a character called Frazier. Yep. Brendan Frazier's mother. Oh shit. Right. Okay. Yeah. The minute you said his name, I knew exactly what it was. I could picture the. Fraser. Why do I keep saying Frazier? It's Fraser. You've got to speak like me to see it. Brendan Fraser. Brendan Fraser. Fraser. Fraser. I've got bloody autograph. It says Fraser. Fraser. It's Brendan. Brendan. Right. Oh, I'm confusing himself now. The more I say it, the more it sounds like that episode of South Park where he says, I was running over again and it just gets. Hello. Hello. Yeah. Yeah. Him. 2002. Adaptation. Men in Black 2. Side effects and the time machine. So he's very busy in 2002. Yeah. Men in Black 2. He played an alien called Joey. Yes, he does. And Joey, you see him. It's very, I don't think there's much again. It's one of those ones where it's a Doug's there, and then he's not there kind of thing. But he played it well. I remember that because he was really tall. I remember him being just really. There is nothing wrong with the Men in Black franchise. No, no, because we've covered that before because Rick did a lot of the practice for that one. So obviously, somebody is going to take us a lot. One minute. The joys. The joys. The joys. The truth is connected. Have you ever seen me put in a finger up? It's because my Bluetooth's gone. It's just technology. Wonderful. Do you know, I never had this problem when I used to have me noise, canceling, gligie. I had the worst microphone ever, but I never had this issue and it was just plugged directly into my computer. Now I've got, do you know, I have like three sets of headphones as well. And it always used me so many ones. I mean, that only ever happens once in a while. Did I miss anything? No, it was just saying that he did it really well. He played a, if I remember rightly, it was quite a tall alien. And it was inside that section where, you know, when they bring back Tommy Lee into the airport bit. Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure that has been a while since I've seen Men in Black 2, but I adore these movies. These are like, if it's under movies, like, no, no, let's watch it. I don't know if the third one. Oh, hey, he's worked with some of the greatest megabartas of ever. Yeah, ever. And we're getting there, though. We're getting to get a big one. 2003 is a movie called Stook On You, where he played Space Alien #2. Yeah. 2004. The first movie he plays is Three Lives, and it just is Mysterious Caller/Mortition. It was a short one. 2004. 2004. The year I started my job that I am still currently now. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. 2004. Yeah. 41 years ago. 41 years ago. 21 years ago or 20 years ago, even my god, it's Thursday's. Hellboy. What a way to introduce that. Hellboy. Abe Sabian, one of the most beautiful characters that's ever graced pages and screens, because Abe obviously, you know, Hellboy is a graphic novel, and another one that nuddy up north is going to be covering as part of their graphic novel series, because it is a who can phenomenal movie. Do you want to lump the first and second one in together? Yeah, we might as well. I can't find it now. It's really bugging me, but sorry. No, got it. Yeah. 2006 was Hellboy 2, which is just as, in my opinion, just as good as Hellboy 1. Few slight changes to Abe, which is very noticeable, and what we're about to get into, my computer's gone off. Abe was the part of Abe came to dug through Guillermo, but that was partly because when they were sculpting the concept of Abe, they, a guy called Steve Wang had actually been, I think he works for Rick Baker, I have to be honest in Puerto Ric Baker's guys. Steve Wang suggested Doug for the part. He said, "I know this guy, he's done a couple of things that I remember, you know, he's in Men and Black. I think he'd be really good for this." And Guillermo Datora was over here. He was, "Here we go." What they were saying? And he went, "I know that name. I know that guy. I've worked with that guy. Called his card out of his one and went, ring him. I want him now." So that's how they called Doug in for the part of Abe Sapien. So he said in this interview, "He has never auditioned for Guillermo Datora in any part he's played." No. So this was a matter of going in and going out with the costumes, seeing what worked with the prosthetics. And Abe was very similar to Amphibian Man with the fact that the majority of it was a bodysuit and the head, they progressed the suit from original Abe to second Hellboy to Shape of Water. They got it right by Shape of Water to where that was a suit that was completely and utterly organic, flexible, could deal with water. Whereas the first one, the struggles that it's a perfect suit, that first suit, I feel is better than the second one. Visually, I don't know what the difference is though. Possibly the mouth because this is a thing that was brought up a few times in the videos that I watched was Doug Talking and Doug actually playing the part. We all know from the first movie that David Hyde-Pierce is the voice of Abe Sapien. Personally, I love it because I love the fact that it's Miles from Frida and he's got such an elegant voice to him. And then, but David Hyde-Pierce is not credited on the movie because he said it's a disservice to Doug because Doug did the work. Angie Elmo said, "I should have let you do it. You can do it in number two." So that is Doug's voice in number two. But him and David are so very similar in their diction and their tone. But to be honest with you, unless you're watching them back to back, and I don't even think you would notice it, even back to back. It's not really similar. It should be clips from the first one. I mean, we all know what David Hyde-Pierce's voice, if you were our rage in watching Frida on Channel 4, I think he's still showing on Channel 4. But his voice is very distinct. In the second one, there is a similarity, but there's a change, and I don't know if that's the change in the suit as well, is the mouth because he, in the first one, he just had to make the movements. You've got to remember, when Doug's playing these parts and people are talking over the top of them, he's seeing their lines. He learns their lines. But the mouth didn't really need to be as moveable as it would have been in the second one. The only thing I can think of that would possibly have any difference. What a lovely thing to do, though, to say he could have been a proper dick and was like, "No, no, credit me as earb, just earb on the earb." But Doug understands, I feel like he's too nicer, generally. But Doug understands movies, and he understands the industry, and he understood that they needed a voice to sell. You've not only got the people who have put the money into it, you have the people who then have to distribute it, and they all have a say in everything that you kind of do, and you really are trying to please them. So he kind of understands why a lot of his stuff has been talked over. Yeah. I mean, he's been dubbed three times in his career. Well, one was David Highpiers as Avastapian. The second time was for Pan's Labyrinth. Even though, again, like you say, he learned, he doesn't speak Spanish, Doug, but he learned every word so that when they dubbed over, they had the mouth shapes, and it was right. The voice actor for Pan's Labyrinth said it was some of the best mouth movement. Yeah, shapes and mouth movement, and he got the Ferrari possibly didn't know what he was saying. He got the shape of the lips to fit in with how he would say something, and Doug very much understood that. His diction on the Spanish language is very different to how it is actually spoken, and he completely appreciated that in order to make this character, and these are some fucking characters, in order to make it as real and as believable, it needed to be. That voice needed to be there. The other one. I don't like that after listening. I've actually not seen the Fantastic Four. Right. Yeah, this is the Fantastic Four sequel with the Chris Evans. This is the Chris Evans Fantastic Four. So, you know, we all know Johnny, Flame, Storm, Flame Boy, whatever the frickin name is, we all know Chris Evans played that, and this was the sequel to the original, but if we're looking in the last 20-something years, it's Rise of the Silver Surfer, and Doug played the Silver Surfer, including Nominee. And also, it was Lawrence Fishburn's voice that dubbed over. Now, the thing was, I saw what Doug put himself through for that part. He was, I'm not joking, they put him in some precarious, like, he was on a surfboard, and they'd just like, have him go round and round on these sets, and like, there was no, I don't know, it felt very... It was very physical, because Naran is very, he's very stoic, and still, that's how I envision him anyway. There's not a great deal of comics that I have read that had Naran run in it, like the Silver Surfer, apart from Infinity Gauntlet, he was in that of the years. When Hulk gets thrown back down to Earth in, what's it called? Infinity War. Yeah, in the comics, it's actually the Silver Surfer who gets blown back in, and that's really my only encounter with the Silver Surfer in comics. For all, I love the Fantastic Four. I kind of tend to steer, I steer with the Fantastic Four in events more than I do their own stuff, and that's just me being really fucking lazy. I just like to use Wikipedia a lot when it comes to comic booths, and it was the best bit of advice I got when I started reading comics, was to Wikipedia is your best round. I mean, the thing about Ape Sapien was that Guillermo de Toro said the reason why he had Doug come in to play Ape was because Doug's mind background lended him the ability to be able to create his own language just through body movements. Guillermo knew what he was saying by him just flipping his finger or when he was playing, or he knew he didn't have to look at the dialogue, he understood the response without the words, and he said that's why I didn't have to, you know, this was an interview for behind the scenes, I think it was behind the scenes for Pan's Labyrinth, which we'll get there in a minute, but this was what he was saying about how Doug has this own alphabet, he has his own language, he has his own ability to be able to express exactly what's on paper, but without saying a word. He said, "I know I can trust anything I ask him to do." Oh, absolutely, I have looked at Ape's suit so much over the last few years, and I remember when I watched the shape of water, all I wanted to do was call him Ape, but when I've looked at Ape's suit as much as I have done, and then gone back and looked at the suit for the shape of water, they are so different. They are so different, they're just similar species, that's the head, the only thing I could see similar was the head, but the coloration, and I don't know why, but green is a big theme throughout shape of water, the color palette is very green, and I was always under the impression that he was green and he's not, he's blue, he's blues and silvers and purple, oh, not purples, yeah, I heard the color, I want to watch that on my big tally just to appreciate the color palette of, is it the amphibian man, is that what they call him? Yeah, I've only ever seen it once, how, for being such a huge creature fan, I've only ever watched it once, and I think it was more because I was too scared to be like, what is this shit? Like, what if I really don't like this, and how will I feel, am I going to compare it to creep, you can't, you can't compare that to move, it's not, it's not, like Guillaume I went out of his way to recreate or make his own, this was something that sat in the lane with it, it didn't, it wasn't something that was supposed to be it, I didn't know, I didn't, I know that he wanted to go and make his own creature from the Black Lagoon movie, and Universal like, no, you're not doing that, so he went, well fuck you, I'm gonna go and do me own, and he did, and this, I just, I would love to know what goes on in his head. I have got one of his, I've got his cabinet of curiosity book that he wrote. Oh, I bet it's known. And it's about this thick, it's hardback, but it's all his scribbles, drawings, when he sketches all of his character ideas, it's got, from every movie he's done, TV show, like, it's a really informative book to how he has his processes for his, how he envisions the characters, so I highly recommend if you go out and get it, I got it in the works, I got it in the works, so it's only like, I'll hook in on something like that. Well, I'm gonna, I'll be on the lookout for it, because I, if I could even have just one percent of his creativity or creative prowess, I would, I would be set for life icon. I love, this is why I like George RR Martin and Tolkien, and anyone who can create something from nothing, something that came out of their head, and it's evolved into worlds, into history, into arcs, and it really, it, it makes me jealous that I can't do that, because if I, I used to be a writer, and I always wanted to get into creative writing, but because my brain just cannot, it's like, it goes into all the Lord, and I end up writing Harry Potter. Do you know what I mean? Like, everything just like comes back to the same thing, and it's like, there's, me originality is gone, because I am so, and I over, over driven with everything that I've watched and read, and it's like, oh shit, I mean, at least I recognize that, and don't release Harry Potter, and essentially it is just fucking Star Wars, but whatever. And so when I, when I got into writing, I went into basically what I'm doing now, I talk it, but I used to write it, and I used, I used to work for two websites, I used to review movies, I used to review comic books, and I would try and fit in some form of creative writing, and it just didn't work. So it really, the mind of the lights of Camaro del Toro, or I love seeing his name as well, and even though I'm probably seeing it completely wrong, is just, it's, it's so intriguing to us. His cabinet of curiosities was on Netflix, wasn't it? It was. There was one story in that, that really stuck with us enough for obvious reasons. It was the morgue one, the autopsy with them. F. Marie Abraham. Yeah. That stuck with me. I love that story so much. Oh, it was absolutely brilliant, and all the tones that the man can use, I could, and we will do an episode on Camaro Camille, and get to know him a little bit better at some point, because, oh, is he, is he very interesting? Yeah, I mean, this is what Doug does, but he does it practically. He can understand exactly what GDT's asked him to do, and he goes, right, yeah, no problem. And he gives exactly what he's asked of, which then brings that character to the place where GDT was expecting it to be, where he wanted it to be, where he could envision it being. So, also just to bring it around to Always Sunny, because we're going to be moving away from Camaro just very soon. He is also Papa McPoyle in Always Sunny in the, in the courtroom, with a bird underneath his hat. That's Camaro del Tara. GDT is a, yeah, a sunny fan. So, yep. Point. So, where are we? We've done Hellboy, and 2005, we did the cabinet of Dr. Calgary, and that is a film I wanted to watch and fit in, but I didn't get to the original. It's absolute bad shit nuts. And I've never seen this remake. I've never seen this remake. So, I'm gutted. I didn't get to fit any of that. I've just seen the poster for it, knowing exactly what it was through it with. Yeah. I'm just annoyed. I didn't get time to fit it in, but yeah, that's on my list of films I will one day watch. Films I will one day get to. He did Doom. Now, from where I read, he was just, he was did limbs, and he was people's appendages. Well, Doom is one of my kind of, I wouldn't call it guilty pleasure, because I don't care if you hate him, I like it. It's got one of my other favourite people in it, Richard Brake, Richard Brake. Someone of Richard's men, known to man, and he was using for hours about anything. He asked me if I was all kid. He, what? The full of horror, the day I started eating meat after nearly 15 years, he saw me having a little milk down at the, because we were sitting right at the front of the stage, and he looked all and I was like, yeah. I'm just eating meat for that. I'm just, I'm just going against everything I've done for the last 15 years. It's okay. It's fine. But lovely, lovely, lovely man. And he's very similar to Doug in the respect of that. He's famous for playing scary, dark characters. Obviously, nice being people. Not he did. He was heavy prosthetics for the Night King. But he's incredibly, yeah, he's incredibly well spoken, quite quiet, very mild mannered, which is very much like Doug. Doug's outgoing, but he's very much in that same sort of wheelhouse of that same kind of tone of person. But yeah, Doom, I absolutely love Doom, and I talked to Richard about Doom till the cows come home. He put a whole paragraph like this on one of my DVDs of his entire speech about, is it inappropriate now? But the whole speech he does about going and seeing some lady boys on his time off. Right. But he put the whole speech on the front of my DVD, Doom cover. And he told me loads of stories about Shane Black, and it was just a pleasure to have had the time to talk to him, because he was so insistent that I got my money's worth. He didn't want me to go away and think that I had 10 seconds with him, you know. I love that. But yeah, Doug, Doug is, like I say, he's very much in that same world. And I think he played someone called Dr. Carmichael, I saw as well. Carmack, Imb, and so... Carmack, Imb, that's it. So I really know, I've seen that film a thousand times, but I couldn't tell you if I'd seen Doug, so I don't think Doug plays Doug. Right. That makes sense. I've seen it once. After a night out, we decided to stay out and go to the pictures first thing in the morning, when a hangover kicked in and I was watching Doom. We've got horrible feeling. You've got Karl Urban, you've got soap, you've got babyface, Dexter Fletcher, and you've got the pebble, because he ain't quite the rock there. I tell you. No, he's not. He's not the rock. No. He's just a baby stone at that point. Can you smell what the pebbles cook in? I love that, the pebble. The last movie, 2005, from a series of small things, where he plays the homeless man. 2006 is a big fucking yeah. You've got the first one being the bench warmers. Yeah. The second one being Ollie on the water, bench warmers. Was that the Matt Stone and Trae Parker movie? I tell you. No, you're very, you're very close. Your head's in the right place. It's Adam Sandler. Right. Okay. David Speeds, Rob Schneider. Yeah. Yeah. Your head's in the right place. Wrong people though. Never, ever heard of it. That's a, that's a, a one. Lady in the water. In the water, in the water. When we, when snakes in the plane came out, it was around about the same time as this. And me sister, we had this run and thing where she'd, when we still do it today, she'll go, one of us will go, there's a snake on a plane. And we kill, like Michaela Romino show, there's a lady in the water. It's so stupid. No, if you're not me and me sister, nobody gets it. But we crack ourselves up every time we see it and we get more jordy, even though we're mackems. The more we say it, there's a lady in the water. Lady in the water. And so yeah, Lady in the water. See how posh I said it there. The next one's Pan's Labyrinth. In the same year he did Hellboy, sword of storms. And this was, this is not Hellboy. This is, this is, this is not, this is not animated. It's the anime. It must be because it says voice director video. Yeah, it's one of the animated, uh, like hour long specials that there is banging around on Amazon. Oh, okay. I see, I see now. So he's doing a couple of them. So, um, sorry, my eyes are heavy as a bitch. Um, the next one is Nora breaks free. Me, me, me, me, me. Going in the Pan's Labyrinths a second just to, oh my good God. Um, he plays the fawn, the pale man. Yes. That's it. I'm thinking, sorry. I get confused with the arch, the angel he plays in Hellboy 2 because it's just the design work of the head is very something that would fit in Pan's Labyrinth. Well, quickly just do that. Like there's something I know about Hellboy 2 basically played the Chancellor. He played Abe and he played the Angel of Death in, in Hellboy 2. Yeah. Now Guillermo said that he's never seen Doug complain once about anything he's ever been put in. He said, but there was this one time Doug bled and Doug cried. Yeah. He said, you that things have gone too far and we had to stop and it had to be changed. He said, because Doug never complains. And so for that to happen, yeah, for that to happen, it had to be bad. So, yeah, it was the wings set that on the Angel of Death that you see when he stands up and the wings come out with all the eyeballs. Originally, they were using a pulley to pull the wings back. They ended up using something else in the end. I had a really intersection on him, which some of the weight away. So it wasn't all, it was balanced weird basically, any one sitting where it should. And I don't really know, they didn't explain how it had like upset him so to speak. But yeah, that was the thing. They didn't go into great detail about it, but all he said was is when Doug bleeds and cries, then we need to, it needs to stop because Doug will never tell you that he is uncomfortable. He will never complain. It doesn't matter how long he has to sit there. When he played the phone, he had to be on stills and he is six foot to start with. And oh my god, I saw a video of him practicing on the stills. And as he's practicing, he's all over the place. But for all his legs are all over the place, his arms are still beautifully. He can control this at any time, but with his legs, it's like they're two separate entities. He was saying that the phono was one of the most comfortable makeups he has ever worn because he said they were all separate parts. So he could move. The thing I found fascinating was that he's used to onesuit or suits of the wade into certain places where it makes it physically challenging for him to move. But he said with the phono, he had like a hip belt on so the pants for the legs were being, the weight was being taken by his hips instead of his thighs. So that made his ability to use his legs easier. He said that when they were doing the behind the scenes for how they did his face, they did have to squash his nose down with a plastic, it would like a perspex kind of thing to give the impression of the nose being flatter. But he did say that all the servos for the eyes were actually in there. It was there was a lot of animatronics going on. Yeah, they made me horns because they had to feed them back and take them up into the horns to get the eyes to blink and things like that. So, um, puppetry, everything that you everything that you can associate with makeup and prosthetics and costume, it all fits in animatronics, puppetry, makeup, latex, CGI is all encompassing in there. Yeah, the effect studio gamma detour I went to which was DDT effects. When he went to them, he said for the phone, he wanted, he didn't want your traditional phone. He wasn't interested in that. He wanted something that could blend in with a forest. So that's why they went for this tree barky, ethereal kind of look to him. I just want to run across the fields with him and just florick. But he was saying that he literally found that he was able to emo and move. But the one thing he said he found really challenging was because of the way a person stands. We stand relatively straight. You know, we might have a little bit of a lazy stoop, but we stand straight. The legs on the fauna come out backwards like that. So spend his time leaning backwards to make the legs because they were green screen. His legs were greened in. He had to lean back to balance the leg shape. So holding a lot of the, instead of, you know, with his core stomach muscles and his thigh muscles, he had to lean back and keep that posture to make it make sense. All while he's got this big heavy head on, even though he did, he did, he's, I even, I watched the video. So again, I saw him on a video where he said that was the most, this is the most comfortable. Like I feel like I could sit in this all day. Yeah. Um, I love the imagery. This is one movie I wish I went back to while we were doing this. And I probably will go and watch it again. Because just looking at all the um, the detail in it, it's stunning. I cried like eyes out at this when I first watched it. I cried for how beautiful it was. I cried for how scary the pale man was. And anytime you see any time you say Doug Jones, do you do that? I will now everywhere. That when I was trying to explain to my parents who the video was from at the weekend, that's how I had to do it. Is that when GDT was designing the pale man with DDT, um, they basically drew this whole, all his parameters was it needs to be like a very large person that's lost a lot of weight. That's, that's the only parameter he gave them. But when they came back, they'd sculpted a whole face for the, the pale man. And he said there was something about it. He was like, what if and apparently he's a, he's a bugger for this GDT. He will change a design when they've almost completed a design because something about it doesn't sit right with him, which is well within his rights to do. But being on the other side of it, when you spent 14 hours of space, I can imagine you're about to have a freaking breakdown. But that's what I was from DDT said. They said we'd sculpt the face with, you know, we were really happy with it. We sent it to him and he went, no scrap that. I'm just put two nostrils right in the middle. But it works. And they even backed down. They even said, you know, we didn't want to tell the guy that sculpted it that he sort of like, look, you know, it wasn't needed anymore. He said, but now we've seen it. It works. You know, we, yeah, right decision was made. Were you such a visionary? How would you not trust his process? Um, this is the one character that Doug is actually scared of. The pale man. Yeah, when he's looked at himself back, it's the one character he's actually turned around and went, oh, oh, hey, hey, now let's let's be let's be here for you. Yeah, I mean, it was a it was a hell of a film. Have we skipped past the Buffy episode? Oh, I am not I am going to quickly because the rest of his films, um, we don't know. I'm going to assume we don't know. I've got a few I can talk about. But yeah, well, I'll tell you what, because we are we are literally at the end. No, we are. We got help by two, which we've talked about. And there is a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff. He's done a lot of work. And, and then you've got, oh my God, I'm nowhere near us. Um, the watch, which I did not know he was in until today. Yeah. And that is, I actually really like that as an alien film, like an alien. Um, well, what would you cast it as like an abduction film or an invasion film? Yeah, it was, I mean, it had Richard had a body in it. So clearly, I was going to love it. And then you've got Joanna Hill, which I'm sorry. I, I, well, anything I watch with Joanna Hill in, I still find great to this day. Um, yeah, I didn't realize he was in that. He is the big alien. That goes in almost kisses Joanna Hill on the mouth. Um, where is Crimson Peak? Yeah. In 2005. Um, Crimson Peak is a, is a, is a love story of, um, practical and CGI. They kind of have to go hand in hand. Um, because, and I didn't realize this actually. There's a few, there's a few movies that he, that was shown where you can click, where I've thought to myself, well, that's just a CGI put in. Actually, there's someone behind it. So something for us to kind of look at differently going forward that, you know, practical and CGI can kind of, and it had to in Crimson Peak. Yeah, you kind of pull off what they did in that movie. Yeah, he played Lady Sharp, the red lady, the red ghost. So his face was really distorted. So, um, yeah, I mean, it was a ghost. So yeah, you would have had to have digitally altered it to be able to talk that, that thing. But again, Doug doing what Doug does best and managed to make that an absolutely horrific, more beautiful. It's horrifically beautiful. Yeah, I agree with that. Um, where are we now? Oh, yeah. So, um, 2016 is, um, Ouija or is it evil? I've seen one of the Ouija movies because it had, uh, Olivia, um, Millicent house dragons, the, the original one had her in it, the original Ouija movie. But I think this is like a sequel that they did. Yeah, he just, it's just got Ghoul Marcus. Um, were coming up to 2017 with the shape of water. Um, I don't know what more I could add to it that I already have said. Um, I know that this was something that they were trying to achieve a certain element of sexiness. Yeah, even though he's a fish man, I get it. They, they, he said what he found that they kept doing when they were tweaking the design was adding more fullness to his lips and giving him a bit of a dodger dunk, right? Yeah. They were, they were trying to emphasize that these were the two things like that, you know, should stand out to make him. There needed to be something in order for the female to be like hell or there. Basically. And he, he was also given the notes as they wanted to be him to be a stoic as the silver surfer. Mm-hmm. But also, um, use the, the notes of how a matador moves. So he. Yes, I saw that moves with his hips. He leads with his hips when he walks. So he said he knew that they got it right when he was, they were sat waiting to go up, you know, like you have all the chairs and they call the people to go up and do their scenes. And he said, Octavia Spencer was sat in this row and he got up to walk to, to his marker. And she made it. Mm-hmm. No, it's really got up. And she said, I knew at that moment we got it right. Got it. Yeah, she was in my behinds. So this potentially could be something we could cover at some point, because the, the, the story itself is, is beautiful. The cinematography is some of the most beautiful. It's the other side. Oh, take that out of the equation. But there is, there is some work in here that is, is worthy of speaking of at some point. And so, where are we? 2018, 2019, don't know them. 2022, Hawkes-Porkus, two, back to Billy Butchison. And now I'm going to end these movies now, and we're going to move into TV. Can I just bring up a couple of movies that we forgot? Yeah, let me just mention this last one, because this is, we can't talk about it because we haven't seen it yet. And he's going to be doing Nastra Farratu, a symphony of horror, which comes out, it just says 20, 30, 20, 23, doesn't say 2013 at all. But yeah, what are the movies? He has actually played Nastra Farratu before. I will put that out. That does not surprise, that does not surprise me. Um, but Legion, um, with Paul Benjamin, Dennis Quaid, he plays the outer cream man, which is a perfect example of Doug being Doug and digitally altering character. It's not very big part, but it's enough to creep you the hell out. Doug's fierce. It's just fierce thought. And his body and his contortion. Yeah, and how he runs and, oh yeah. Yeah, he's all that scuttles. It's like, it's really grim. And also quarantine. He was the creepy, I don't even know what the name of the character was up. You know, the creepy thing in the, when Debra from Dexter goes upstairs and she's a fucking morgan. Yeah, she's got a night vision on and she sees the creepy white person figure that is like, I've not heard this. Yeah, quarantine's a really good movie, but a lot of people will kill me for saying that because the original version was the Spanish movie called rec. Oh my God. Yes, I heard them talking about this because he has worked with the original guy who played him. Yes, he, the guy that played the same character he played in rec, that he played in quarantine, have worked together on projects, projects after this. But yeah, quarantine, I think is a good movie. Rec is far better and far superior. I know. Yeah. Again, that's down to whether you like subtitle movies or, you know, hey, so I'm dyslexic. So I've got a dub. I've got to have everything dubbed over anywhere. We can't watch. This is my aunt here. It's watching anything with us that is meant to be in its original language because he can watch stuff with subtitles. I can't. So it's quick games, for example, had to watch it with the dub on or the sub other dub, whatever it's called. That was from 2008. I saw that the guy who he's worked with and who was on in rec. He is one of these guys who can suck his skin in and they ensure you every single born in his body. And oh my God, did I not feel crazy after seeing that? And I too, because that was a yeah movie. That's it. That's is that the movie they worked on? No, because he wasn't, no, because he wasn't in Bletou. He was in Bletou? No, thingy wasn't. Doug wasn't thingy wasn't. Sorry. Doug wasn't. Was he? He's not credited? It's a small part apparently. Wikipedia's lying to me. Again, this is after watching videos and they said that he was a small part in Bletou. It makes sense. It makes total total sense. So he's television. I'm going to quickly just scale through them and then you can stop it. This is on the one that you want to talk about because I know the one you want to talk about. That's two. So 91 he does in living color. Yes. In living color for people who don't know is a sketch comedy show that is created by Keenan Ivory Wayans and stars all of his family and Jim Carey. Yeah, it's how Jim Carey got his start into work, really. When I was growing up in living color, when the moment they released that in the UK, it was fantastic. I absolutely loved it. We don't have SNL. When you're the US listeners, SNL, you are very, very privileged to have, we have nothing like that. We had variety shows, but they weren't to the scale of what you were bringing. You really brought such a different aspect to improv than what we could ever have dreamed of. By the way, there's an SNL movie coming out of the starting point a lot. I'm so excited. Sorry that we brought up your alley. That one. It's the generation you love, isn't it? It is. It's the starting point in the lawn, Michael's. Oh my God, I'm so excited. Sorry. I live in color. He played a mime. He's in episode two, no, series two, episode 24. He's done tales from the crypt, where he plays a contortionist. These are the early days, and he's obviously showing his skill set to look what I can do. He did silk stalkers. I don't know what that is. Now I do remember this because this was advertised on one of my Ghostbusters VHSs was the young Indiana Jones chronicles. Yeah, I remember that TV series. Yeah, and I did not watch it. You've played someone called Slapstick. It's just a slapstick actor. So again, I feel like he is just kind of like setting out his resume of like this is what I can do. But I love the fact that you mentioned Buster Keaton earlier. And it's someone who I've never really like when I think of actors of that era who are physical act physical comedy actors, I do think of Charlie Chaplin. And I never looked at Buster Keaton. He is them. He set such a fucking bar that he knocks Chaplin out of the water when it comes to what he would do to himself in order to make a picture work. Please go and look at your Buster Keaton. He is phenomenal. And as far as I'm aware, it doesn't have a sketchy past like Chaplin. Anyways, um, 1986, we've got something called the Bourne cellars. '97, um, unhappily ever after. And this just made me smile the weird alsho. And you played a contortionist on four episodes. And he's done the outer limits. Keenan and Kel. Yeah. You ready for it? Yeah. 1999. He did the episode that won a Emmy award. Oh, shh. I'm both either vampire slayer. Season four, episode 10. The Gentleman. Singly one of the most gentlemen episodes of television as in that era. I was 19 when it came out. And that was the creepiest thing in the universe. I listened to the podcast, um, on the really watch up where Doug went with that. And he was on the rewatch and he explained how they did a lot of the floating scenes where they were on, they were on like, um, dollies and things like that. But it was so seamless and they don't look like they're being pulled too fast. It doesn't look like there's any kind of like, you know, they, it was done that movie that TV show going back and watching that episode again. I did the other day and it was, it still gives that vibe of, if you saw one of those guys passing past your house and looking in your window staring at you, I think I'd have a heart attack and die. I'd be in the fetal position and probably dead. This was the thing. When he auditioned for the part, he, there was a full face mask that they were all wearing. And just when said, about him and a guy called Cam, which are the two main gentlemen, the most expensive gentleman, they had the prosthetics completely changed for their faces. It was the same principle, but they were allowed to have a few of their mouths. So they had these big silver dentures put in their mouth. And Doug had to keep that smile. And so he'd come on their face for the whole time. I can't do that. Yeah. And it's like an old year. Joss Whedon actually said that Doug gave him the creeps to such an extent that he really found it hard to watch the monitors when they were filming, because of the whole, it was the way. It'd be too real. It was. And I think the thing was, it was the way that Doug was so, the permanent expression on their face of happiness and glee, and the fact that they floated, they didn't walk. They had like little minions that were in straight jackets. And then they, it was the way that he, he does the sting with his finger, Doug, like you'll notice it the more you watch his stuff. Yeah. It's very, it's very, it's very expression of his hands. But there's this thing he does with his finger. And he does it quite a lot in the gentleman, where he'll be gesturing to each door. And they're, they're very slow in the way that their mannerisms are. And it's like, what about this tour? And the other one's like, no, this one, no. And there's something about it where they, they go into and selecting their victims. And it's cool. And when they do go in, they, it's the way he whips out, he literally gets a scalp on his like, it's, it's like there. And it's, they cut out the hearts of the kids, and they take the hearts. And it's what he's genuinely grim. But it's the bit at the end where, in this interview with, with Morbid, the girls from Morbid that do the rewatcher, he, he was saying, he had to get really close to Sarah Michelle Keller with the scalpel to stab her in the back. And this part of the scene. But they said to him, don't you get too close to her, she's the star, you have to be careful. Don't you touch her. Yeah. And he was like, so what, you know, he was, he was like, it's so aware of, of like not doing certain things in that scene. But the way that the gentlemen are get rid, I've gotten rid of is the princess has to scream. So Buffy gets their voice back and screams. And it is one of the worst screams in the universe. It's not pleasant. It's not even like a scream. It's like a yell. But then the gentleman's head's explode. But he was saying it's all like pea soup and custard and food colouring. And it was a mess. It's an absolute mess. But it's still one of those TV shows to this day that I, I love Buffy. There are some episodes on it and seasons that you think there's absolutely no point in them whatsoever. And season four is one of those seasons that you watch and you think of God, this is boring, but then this one come along. And everybody was like, okay, that's right. When if you can cast your minds back to the episode we did on the X-Files, it could have quite easily been this one. Because we had two episodes in mind to try and do something of TV. And Dan instantly said this, but then she instantly said the X-Files one. So we used the trusty 50 pence piece. And it made the decision for us. So it may be something we look into. Because I, as everyone knows, if you watch the main podcast and nerdy of north podcast, I'm not a Buffy fan. My sister who was on that episode is the Buffy fan. And I just had to, I went along for the ride. Like, I've seen episodes, I can't, I honestly can't say I've seen a full series. And I'm the type of person who loved the college years. And so that's what it says about me when it comes to Buffy. But yeah, I visually, these are some of the greatest television monsters that has ever come on screen. The design work on the face alone, even the suits. I think that's what it was. They were so humanoid, but sort of so devoid of emotion that other than the sheer glee. And that's what someone's settling about the characters themselves. But my favorite is the rhyme. It's can't even shout, can't even cry. The gentlemen are coming by, looking in windows, knocking on doors. They need to take seven and they might take yours. Can't call to mum, can't say a word. You're going to die screaming, but you won't be hurt. I mean, to me, that's creepier than the Freddy. You know, like one, two, Freddy's coming for you. Yeah, fuck off Freddy. That is far creepier to think you're dying silence to be going. There's a reason you've not graced this podcast yet. It's trust me, that's a whole cake that needs to be cut down into slices. That one is pretty. Oh, my God. Just be prepared to not have it any time soon. Oh, what was I going to say? If anyone who is how I met your mother fan all the way through that when Dan kept saying the gentleman, that was my nod to how I met your mother. I mean, I said it. No. Oh, there's an episode where it's like a private joke between the five of them and or the four of them to annoy Barney because he missed a night out or something. And they just keep going. The gentleman, the gentleman. So every time I hear it, I have to pay homage to the gentleman. And where are we? Where are we? Where are we? There's one more thing I want to talk about before we wrap this baby up. I've got to, but yeah, you go. The first, but mine is the 2019 delight that I would very much like to delve into at some point is what we do in the shadows. Well, yeah, I've got the baron. I've got stuff about the baron there, but yeah, the baron. Can I skip back quickly? Go back and connect it. There was a TV series called for itself. We didn't get it over here. It was created by Mick Garris. So if you know who Mick Garris is, Mick Garris is a horror fanatic. Oh, we know who Mick is. He's a beautiful critters too. And many, many other films, but that's the one that jumped into my brain straight away. Mick Garris is on a lot of the anthology TV, anthology movies that you'll see like the darkness ones into the darkness movies. And Mick knows his stuff. Yeah, he really does. I've just been on the Wikipedia page. And do you know who did the the music for us? Yeah, thank you. And from system. Well, I'm so glad you could see his name because I was just going to see the guy from system of down. Yes. Thank you. And the lead singer wrote the music for this, this the intro music for fear itself. Basically, fear itself is an eight, eight episode anthology, horror anthology that was released in around 2008, 2009. And every episode was different. I did one called skin and bones, which was episode eight. And I watched it last night. But this is one of the very rare times Doug gets to be Doug in to a degree. This he plays a whenling go. And yeah, for those of you that aren't up with your, you're not mythical creatures, but your creatures of legend, shall we say, when to go, when did go is a native American skin eater. All right. Okay. Yeah. You know, the Hannibal imagery with the. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, it's a cannibal. So Sammy's not living in that land. But this episode is where Doug has a family. And he goes missing. When you join the episode, he's been missing for, I think it's like 10 days or something. And then he stumbles out of the forest on his own. And there was a party that went out and he was the only one that came back. And he's emaciated. He's got, they've accentuated all of his bones in his face to make him look even thinner. There's a photo of him on the side, which I have to say they'd like put his kids in. But what they've done with Doug to try and show progression from how he was before he went out into the woods to how he came back, that's digitally manipulated Doug to looking a little bit chubbier. Oh, that was potent. And it was so strange. Because it, it, it, you could tell it was him. Yeah. But it was like, you know, we have to look twice. Hang on a minute. What was that, Doug? You know, he was just like, what? Because you're not used to seeing no, no, obviously that. Well, that's what makeup barter said about him, that he is the most perfect person to put makeup and prosthetics on, because he is incredibly slim. So you can build on him. And I can't imagine a chunky face, Doug. Yeah. I mean, most of this film, he, at most of this TV, sorry episode, he is laying in a bed because they're trying to coax him back to health. They're trying, you know, they're trying everything, they're trying to bring in food. He doesn't want the food. And his wife comes, and he says, you taste delicious because he licks that and it's like, from there, me, you know, where we're going. He kills a horse. He eats a horse. He literally just bumps off his brother. But it's, it's nice to see Doug in probably 25% makeup. Instead of, you could see it's Doug, you know, it wasn't, he wasn't limited from the face down, if you know what I mean. He was very much just in normal clothes. He might have had, oh, no, he had spindly fingers where they'd done a bit of extension work on it because he had frostbite on it. But the more he turned into a wending go, the longer the fingers were getting. Yeah, frostbite on his ears. And he had like his skull features were sort of pushing, not pushing through his skin, but you could see like his eye sockets and he was, you know, they tried to reinforce like some of the bone work under the skin to come to the surface so you knew he was thinner. But yeah, that was a really good episode for something that I didn't know existed that I sort of stumbled across. Did we talk about this before when we mentioned Mick? Not fear itself. Well, maybe. I don't know because I never heard of it. I was really shocked. So I'm going to go back and watch some of the other episodes because they've got Ham Aidens, Taylor, Elizabeth, what's her face? She's in one of these episodes. This is like, when you look into it, there's like somebody in every episode, like there's somebody famous in every episode, but they might not have been famous then. Yeah, yeah, because it was what? 2008? So had Mad Men even started then? Because that's for Elizabeth Moss is like breaking point is Mad Men. I don't know. Was your second one what we do in The Shadows? No, my second one was a film that he did. And I've not seen Doug get so passionate about a movie as he did with this one. He even cried like got really teary in the interview. This film was basically what he'd done was he'd helped out a college student from his old college. It wasn't like a college student he had. It was just a guy that approached him and said, "Would you care to be in my quick short that I'm doing for my uni project?" And that was like, yeah, cool. So he comes in and leaves and this guy, Morgan Mead, writes an entire movie for Doug to play Doug. No makeup, no special effects, Doug acting as Doug. And this film is called My Name Is Jerry. And I watched it last night. It's on YouTube, you can watch it. It is one of the saddest films I think I've watched in a long time. It is about a gentleman that's just so lost in life. He doesn't know where to go with his life. And it's got a very, very young Steven Yoon in it. Glenn from The Walking Dead. Oh, Glenn from The Walking Dead. And he becomes friends with these kids. I say kids, they're not like the older than college students, but they're that age, you know. He has an estranged daughter. He just doesn't know how to life, you know. And it's when he was talking about the movie, he was just so, you could see he was so overwhelmed that Morgan had taken the time to write a part for Doug specifically where Doug didn't have to be in special effects because Doug doesn't get to be Doug often. And he kept hearing up because he said it was important to him that I got to be seen. And he said, I don't get those opportunities often. He said, I know, you know, he said, I know my life is either I get to be funny or I get to be scary. That's my wheelhouse. That's where I sit in life. He said, and I don't always get to be me. I get to be someone else doing those things. So for someone to think about me specifically, and want me to be the lead in their, you know, in the movie, you could see it was a passion project like everything about it got him emotional in this interview. To be fair though, it was two days after they finished filming. And when I can imagine coming off the back of a rigorous filming shoot, you are emotionally spent anyway. Yeah. And especially when it's, it's so fresh, it's so raw, that person, that character has not left you yet. I'm just looking at it now. I've never, it's not something that I've ever heard of. And I feel really bad saying this about the majority of Doug's films that I've never heard of them. But I don't think you appreciate it until you actually have to go and copy and paste every single film that he's done onto a word document. He has done a lot. My name is Jerry. I'm incredibly glad I got to watch that. And it was purely because it got mentioned in one of the interviews. And I saw how much it it was having to record with him. So I thought, well, if it means that much to him, then it's worth me going and looking. Yeah. So yeah, it is. You have to be in the right frame of mind. It's not. Oh, well, it's a student movie to a degree. The guy does fantastic editing. The camera work is great. The storyline and the script are fine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it in the respect of that you wouldn't know it was a student movie unless that they do tell you at the beginning, you know, it's like. But yeah, I highly recommend if you're in that frame of mind that you want something that is a serious, is it like, it's not on the whole it is a bit stupid. It has its moments, but it's a nice, it's a nice film in one way. And it's a very incredibly sad film in another way. So, but if you want to see Doug being Doug, well, Jerry, and I do. I do. I want to, I feel like over the last few days, I've gotten to to understand, not to understand him, but to know him a little bit better because to me, before we started doing this was just, you know, he's he's the monster guy. And I don't want to see him as a monster guy. I do because I fully appreciate and love his love for all these monsters and creations that he has put on screen. But at the same time, Doug is an actor. And I want to, and he is one of hell of an actor. And I want to appreciate Doug as Doug, um. Honorable mention goes to the strain though. He also plays the ancient in the strain. Telling a lot of mind. I struggled to finish that, but I've only got halfway through it. But at the beginning, the first couple of episodes where you actually, the first season I say was fantastic. And then it sort of fell away after that. But as the ancient, yeah, job, well done. Honorable mention goes to that one. And now we can talk about my babies. What we do in this shadow always. This is the film is one of my favorites. It was actually it started when it when I first saw it, I saw the year after it came out. And and it became the movie I watched every Halloween after, along with the exorcist. And this is my mom is not a horror fan. But we tried to watch this at her. I was like, listen, after seeing this amazing movie. And you have to watch it because you'll love it. It's so funny. And my dad's got such a funny born that I was like, listen, you'll find it funny. Couldn't get it to work at all. Because we were using other ways to watch it. And it just kept buffering all the time. She saw 20 minutes. That 20 minutes alone has made her a massive fan of the TV show. The minute it came on telly, she watched it instantly. She's watched it repeatedly. She's even seen the spin-offs with the werewolves and the fucking ghosts and the shit that whatever came out afterwards, she is obsessed with it to the point where she ruined the last series for us because she couldn't keep her mouth shut. She had to tell us, my mom doesn't get spoilers. If she's seen it, then you're going to have to know about it. Because Karen Athanas is technically supposed to be the character of like a Gary Oldman type. He's an ancient one. And he was created by Jermaine Clement and Tyka YTT. And he was only supposed to be in one episode. It's still around with. Yeah, this is the thing. The pilot episode basically was supposed to end with them putting him in a casket and pushing him into the river. But Jermaine was having so much fun with him because of the way he was interacting really well with the camera. And who are these people? Are they here? Are they here for me? It was just brilliant. And so they changed his death, technically his exit to Guillermo setting him on fire when he was on tour. It's such a shocking moment though. You're like, why? But then you see half of him is still alive like from the sort of sternum up. Well, you don't know he's alive at this point. You see him get married. So Jermaine then said to him, we're going to allude to the fact that you could possibly come back because we're going to put some red in your eyes when we bury you. So they know that you're not possibly you could come back. So, lo and behold, Jermaine loved him that much. He made him come back again. And then he kept changing it. He just constantly changed away the amount of times they were going to kill him off. Jermaine had rewrite it. So they didn't kill him off. So he had more of a part. But then obviously Jermaine stepped back. But they kept the baron on. Especially when he was there was a there was a behind the scenes episode like Skit where I saw an interview with Harvey Gillan and he was interviewing Doug about that bit where they pulled him out of the grave after they buried him and he's laying there on the floor. And he's he's going just normal 4am in Staten Island. And he's like being all posh, just laying there. But yeah, he was saying about how he loved his favorite thing was the little have you seen the little car in that episode when they go into the supermarket and they put the baron in like a Barbie car because he's got no legs. So they put them in the Barbie car and he's driving around. He's got green screen. It's got a green light crew on this arm because I was only got one on. And then they have because Doug's legs were so long he couldn't sit. So they had to cut out a part of the front of the vehicle. So he could put his feet through. So he's sitting like an L shape in this little Barbie car with his feet in the green like stockings out the front so they can sort that digit driving around in this Barbie car. And he's doing like complete donuts and going off in this Barbie car. It was brilliant. But he was filming Star Trek at the same time as doing baron and flitting between to do it, which I thought was a hell of a, you know, a thing because Saru only takes two hours. He takes exactly the same amount of time as all the other actors to get into his prosthetic work for that. But the baron is a hell of a lot longer to get into because clearly there's a lot more that goes in. It's not just face and hands, it's full body. The baron is a great character with the Red Hat when he's trying to blend in and then he's eating pizza and he keeps up. I think killing him off would have been a disservice to the character and a disservice to Doug because that is, for me, if you're talking about a role that encompasses, it won't be the role that Doug's known for the most, but it encompasses Doug in a way that it's a creature and it's funny and he gets to be him. He gets a talk. Yeah, he gets to use his own voice. So for me personally, because I am biased and what we do in the shallows is a stroke of genius in any way. I genuinely feel like that's where my love for Doug will go with the baron. I get that. I mean, all the other stuff 100 sits with me, but I think the baron is the one that showcases Doug's talents. My name is Jerry. It's the one that showcases Doug as Doug. I'm really glad you brought that up. I'm really glad you brought up something that was out of the norm of what of a Doug movie that we would think of when we instantly think of Doug John. So I'm really glad you brought that one up. But yeah, I mean, that's where I am. That's pretty much as far as I could go without putting another hour onto this thing. Yeah, that's true. We really could go. I mean, there's so much, and do you know what, it's a name that is not going to be too far away from an episode that we do because there is a lot that we could cover with Doug. But we said that about, you know, when we did Tom Savini and we've done Rick Baker, it was a year ago to do that we did Tom Savini. It's insane. That's crazy because I can't remember that episode. But Doug, for me, as you said, and this will never change, I will quote something Doug said in one of his interviews. Dougie needs more time to be Dougie. Doug is always there and always on work, but Dougie needs to be Dougie sometimes. Yeah. So it's nice to see when Dougie is Dougie. So I hope, I hope, on hope that he, he's his own advice and let's get some self-enjoy life. We, we purposely have left the Star Trek part of his career out because, as you know, Nerdy Up North has its own dedicated Star Trek podcast. And we don't want to, to cover anything and do anything. It is justice, really, because I believe that he's playing a big part in Star Trek, I believe because I generally don't know, and playing a big part in Star Trek. And I don't know Star Trek. I don't. I have no idea, and I'm sorry. I should because my mom's a Trekkie, but I don't. It's something, I kind of like, it was that one thing when my mom's like, "Watch it, no." No. Absolutely not. So we'll leave Doug for today, but not forever. No, no. I'm sure we'll come. Oh, absolutely. Do you want to tell the people what has happened in next week? Well, ladies, gentlemen, and everybody in between and all around, we have a special guest, Nestle. We do. We do. We have a certain person called Scary Zahra Mary, who will be joining us. If you're intrigued and you don't know who she is, you can go find her on TikTok. She does some amazing horror movie reviews. She does. She is also modeling for Truffle Shuffle, currently. She is. I saw. She does a lot of product reviews for me because I'm biased and, you know, nepotism. She's an all-round fountain of knowledge when it comes to movies, and she will be joining us for a very, very special episode. This is one of the biggies. We have purposely left this one till it felt right. Yep. And it feels right. It feels so right. It is Scary Zahra Mary's favorite movie, and it is also one of your favorite movies. 1974? Yep. The Exorcist. Gosh. I kind of, I kind of wait to sit and get into this and get into the nuclear. I have so much going up in there about this film that it just needs a place to come out now, because I need to make room for other stuff. We're not doing one. We're not talking about believers. We're not talking about sequels. Oh, no, we're not focusing on this one. The Exorcist. Yeah. And Zahra is actually a listener as well. So. And I know she is because she's sent as many messages telling us the episodes she's watching, and she is listening. So, hi. So, yeah, next week is a very exciting week. We haven't had a guest on for a bit. So, it'd be nice to have someone come and join us. Come into the military. We're spoiling you, isn't it? Oh, aren't we so good? It's so good to you. So nice. Well, we are on YouTube every Monday at 8 o'clock. The audio for this episode and any other sort of doing an early up north for the week, it goes up on it. Tuesday the links for leading marvellous monsters up north and nerdy up north are where Dan's shiny redneals are showing here right now. They're Dorothy's slippers, but you can't see them. They're all glittery. I can kind of see like a bit of a little pretty. I don't think I've seen you with redneals before. That clashes with my purple, but you know, forgive it guy, I thought you were saying a bit different. I like it. I like it. I can't do your accent. And I'm struggling to do me one at the moment because I'm that tired. What else? What else? What else? Oh, yes. If you're on YouTube, please remember to like, share, and subscribe. Hit the notification bell so you never miss an episode. And if you are listening to us on audio, let us know. Heart us, like us, rate us, do something because it helps our new, it helps other monster fiends find us and come and join in on our, our little, little horror adventure. I think that's it. I think, is it? Yeah. Are we done? Yeah. Well, Dan, there's nothing else left to say. Say goodbye, Dan. Bye. Stay spooky everyone. Bye. Bye. [Screaming] [Screaming] [Screaming] [Screaming] [Screaming] [Screaming] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]