Hello and welcome to the Top Floor Podcast. I'm your host, Darren Cantall. This is the fourth edition or fourth episode of the Denver edition. It is my pleasure to welcome my friend, my colleague, Mr. Cameron Harris, Managing Director of Truth Fitness. Welcome, Cam. Hey, Darren. Thanks for inviting me onto this podcast episode four. It was gonna be episode one, but I appreciate you getting me an episode four. You know, you promised me episode one, but we'll talk about it another time. So yeah, I'm looking forward to it. My friend, Alissa, yeah, just have a good chat and talk about some cool stuff. Yeah. So before we hop in, I do want to, I want to give you a plug, which is we met a couple years ago. I partnered with your company for my health and wellness, and at 48 years old, I was probably in some of the best shape of my life, and it didn't take me very long to get there. It was probably over the course of the summer, three months. And in those three months, I saw some of the biggest gains in weightlifting, body change or composition. You know, my body fat is still high, but my muscle mass was a little greater. So that was cool. So thank you. You and your team do great work. Appreciate it, mate. It was a pleasure to work with. So I'm glad we could help. All right. So before we get too far, how about introduce yourself? Yeah. Thanks. Appreciate your team. You're up. So my name is Cameron Harris. I'm the manager director of company called True Fitness. We're London based. We were kind of back in the day. Evan's got a pre-COVID story, but pre-COVID, we were based in the city of London for many years. So many of our clients are kind of insurance professionals, finance professionals, fintech, law. That's kind of our bread and butter. So we're based in the city of London for about four and a half, five years pre-COVID. And then since then, we've moved online. We've been here ever since half because we had no choice. And the second part is because it's been going really well for us and we've been able to help people across the globe now, which is brilliant. And we specialize in helping entrepreneurs, senior executives, C-suite individuals that are low on time, high in stress, struggling to fit workouts in, struggling with being over weight and energy and focus and all the stuff that we want to avoid as humans. We kind of taken through a program, a bespoke program and helped them to turn things around as quickly as physically possible. Most importantly, make sure they maintain that for life because quick fix is a great, but they're not going to get you that lifelong change that everyone really wants. We're much more focused on helping people who want to change fast, but also want to maintain it forever. Okay. So I find your company story interesting. And as we were talking before, we hit record here today, you're telling me a little bit about the evolution. One of the things I'm real curious to hear about is what is the evolution of your business and what were some of those indicators or signals that alerted you that it was time to change and evolve? Okay. Well, I know we've only got about 25, 30 minutes here, so I'll keep this question short and sweet because if you ask any business owner about their journey, they're going to really open up and be open to talking for three days about it over a point potentially, but we won't talk about that now. So I think there's been there's been a few moments of kind of realization, a few moments of oh crap, this is not working or oh crap, there's the gap or oh crap, this is where we should move as a company. I think we've been great at being agile, been able to move at the times and you know, we all know about the cultural shifts and the changes that have happened over the last five years, we're trying to avoid saying that word every 30 seconds. And yeah, based on your question, I think one of the first, one of the first times that I kind of saw observed a gap in the market, something that wasn't being done quite right was when we first moved into a place called Surely, which is not far from the city London, it's just 20 minutes down the road, right? And we're working from this warehouse gym, so spitting saw with us, it's kind of, you know, still roof. The rain comes in and it's all dirty and you know, everyone's queuing for a shower and it's, you know, it's great, but it's not luxury, right? And what we see is we bring these kind of, you know, managed directors, CEO types, you know, very successful, very driven people, you know, these are high flies, jet setters, you know, they run in a very successful business, these are proper business people and they come into the gym and we start training them, right? And this is kind of pre what we do now, run the kind of coaching element and we train them, getting them on board, getting trained really hard, they're seized for a couple of hours a week, sometimes three hours a week, right? And we've been looking at them two months in and thinking they haven't changed, they look exactly the same as what they did at the start. And I'll be frank, they spent probably thousands of pounds at this point, spent tons of hours in the gym, we put lots of effort in, we want to say we, me and my ex-business partner, and they've not changed, we're thinking what's going on here? And then I realised, then I started to observe and ask questions and ask these individuals, like what is your lifestyle like outside of the gym? And then we started to realise, right, the gym part, the personal training bit, the training part is a very small kind of part of the journey this person needs to go through to physically change their health and their body. And then what we decided to do is to start implementing, looking at the food, looking at the alcohol, looking at their sleep, looking at what supplements are taking, looking at their travel, looking at timezones. And then what happened was we opened this whole Pandora's box of, oh shit, now this is the, this is the real problem. The problem isn't the training, although there is part of the problem for most people. I say it's the, that's the surface level problem. People can't train. And you know, I think business people often attribute the training part to everything they want from a health journey is not. I'd say it's maybe 10 to 15%, maybe 20%. Most of it's the shit they do outside. You know, the timezones, the travel, the stress, the alcohol, the smoking, all that stuff, right? So we opened up this Pandora's box. And then really for the next kind of six months, strapped the self to the computer and started to build out, you know, some systems and processes and kind of questionnaires and ways that we could gather this intel from our client. This is all pre-applications that having apps and pre-being online stuff for that. So we were still kind of, you know, pen and paper type people back in the day and started to work out, right? What does the system look like? What does it look like to take someone from, you know, point A, which is overweight, stress, feeling crap, you know, not feeling confident in their cells, in business, they're a legend, but in the home, we're looking in the mirror. I'm not so much. How do we take that person from A to B? And that's kind of the first iteration of coaching. That's the first iteration that we had of our rapid result system, which, you know, this is five years ago, six years ago. So it's changed and moved. So I think that was the first moment we kind of looked at what's going on. What's where are they being underserved, this type of individual? And the more we kind of got into this world, the more we kind of looked at the coaching element, and the more holistic approach, I suppose you'd call it, the more we realized that business people, C-suite executives, you know, business owners, entrepreneurs, they're very much underserved by the health and fitness market. There's nothing really out there, in my opinion. I'm sure people can send me some links. There'll be some, but not a lot. If you look at the generic kind of volume-based group stuff, you know, a CEO doesn't want to be in a group with 500 people. They want one-to-one. They want contact. They want coaching. They want to feel special. They want to have that journey be as smooth as possible. And really, you know, especially in the UK, because I can very much comment on that, there's not really many companies that look at that and really take a, you know, a one-to-one look at what does this person need to do to change. And I know with what you do, it's very much kind of the similar. He kind of resonated when we first met around what you do around the kind of business coaching, you know, the leadership coaching with what we do. So I suppose that was the first one. And then the second one was, as we kind of moved more into our own space, which was a private member's club, a beautiful private member's club in the city of London. We were very lucky to get that. And we kind of really started to accelerate as a company. We went from five clients to 55 clients in the space of about 18 months, which was insane for two young lads that were just kind of just giving it a go, you know. So really started to grow. And I think, again, because we're talking about business, I think personally, we couldn't keep up with that growth. We started to struggle. It was like the system started to break a little bit, you know. And we just started to catch up a little bit. Just started to put a bit of traction and then COVID kicked in. And everything just started from scratch again. So it kind of felt, I suppose, that three years of hard work, three and a half years of hard work, kind of reset because we went online. Everything changed. You know, you can't use pen and paper online, you have to build everything. So it kind of pushed us and forced us as a company to rethink things, you know, the first part is survival because of COVID ID. How do you survive, how do you keep going? Well, plenty of friends at Ranjims that are not doing this anymore. They've gone, they've finished, you know, plenty of good people doing a good, good work, they're finished. You know, how do you move online and still deliver a great service? How do you make people feel special? How do you make them feel that you're there to give them all the support they need? And, you know, fast forward to where we are today, iteration number probably three or four. It's been a blessing because our clients looked after even more than they were before because of the online element, we can work with people like yourself, you know, 10,000 miles away. I have far away it is people in Europe, people in Australia, different time zones. And the great thing as well is that what we now do, because a lot of our clients travel, as I'm sure a lot of yours do, when we had a physical premises, the program would stop when they traveled. Whereas now the program follows them, wherever they are. So the whole, "Hey, I'm away for two weeks, we'll have the stock excuse," is no longer an excuse. It can't be a reason because we follow you wherever you go, unless you're going somewhere without Wi-Fi, which isn't many places, right? So I think from a company perspective, now what we deliver is probably more effective than it was before, because the programming can be more flexible, it can work around people's time zones, it can work around people's travel. And there's really no reason why it should stop, because you've got a team as well. The team can deliver, if one falls down a hole, unfortunately, we can step in and keep things moving for people. And I'm waffling a bit and I could go on for three hours. But the last iteration is what we started to see around this kind of cultural change where individuals that are, you know, in business, that are looking to be successful and drive and get to the top and fulfill their financial goals and their kind of purpose-driven goals and egotistical goals, wherever they may be, are slowly, and I don't know what your thoughts are, they're slowly starting to think and realise, I think, actually observe and realise that wealth is great, but health and wealth together, you know, look at Jeff Bezos, right, that guy has ripped to pieces, that guy there, you know, in theory, you look at him go, that guy's one, he looks great, he's probably going to deliver a long, healthy life, he's got cash in the bank, you know, people are starting to get inspired by those types of characters, rather than your kind of Gordon Gekko braces, 10 points before lunchtime, smoking his cigar, big fat, belly hanging over the trouser, and what I've observed as well is that the people that are in their kind of late 40s into 50s, mid 50s now, are looking back and going, this guy is 28, he trains five times a week, he's not only driven, smart, intelligent, you know, resourceful, he's also able to do 15-hour days and not be tired, so they're kind of thinking themselves right, well, how do I compete with that? And the answer to that question is you can't, you can't compete with that, you know, you can't compete with someone that is lean, strong, fit, sleeping right, eating right, you just can't, you're just going to get beaten, and there's loads of data out there that shows us that CEOs, business owners that work out and look after themselves, not only make more money in the long run, but also they inspire their team, you can imagine, I talk about it quite regularly about, you imagine this team, this business and the CEOs in great shape, the business owners in great shape, the sales equity is in great shape, the middle management is in great shape, can you imagine a company like that, that's not only got a great value they add to the market, but everyone's super fit and they can work more effectively, make better decisions, so you know, it's something I'm passionate about as you can hear, and I'm trying to, you know, as a company, we're trying to promote, you know, the benefits of business people being in shape, because it's not just about them individually, it's about the massive impact they have on their team, on their families, on their culture, on their society, so, you know, we're trying us little old company over here, we're trying to set a new standard, we're trying to really push the boundaries and push this forward, it's not only a, you know, me and you talking now, but something that starts to impact the culture of business in general, because, you know, I think we, some people look at business owners and think, oh, you know, they're just trying to grab cash all the time, you know, we can have an impact if we really, you know, take positive, proactive stance on health, that's my opinion. Love it, love it. You sound like John Lennon a little bit, like, imagine a company where all these layers of the organization are in shape, healthy, live in a healthy lifestyle. Have you encountered a company that has that culture? Yeah, you know, I have and the people that work within that company and maybe left just talk about all the time, because they talk about it as, let's take a real word example, I won't use names and numbers and people obviously, but let's imagine company one, well, company one's in insurance, company one is run by a CEO that's very successful, you know, always working really hard, really looks up to within his industry, because always in the pub, you know, when they have team days out, they're always drinking, they're always doing parties, stuff like that. That's lovely, but what happens is the guys that are in their 20s in that team, like, yeah, free booze, all this stuff, right? And they look up, see, I go, oh, look at him, he's doing it, right? The problem with that is that from a productivity, absenteeism, illness, sickness, alignment, mental health, all that stuff that we all want as a big, as a strong company, is going to be unaligned. It's not going to be aligned, right? As best as we try, it's not, because people are looking at it and going, the culture is drinking, you know, calling sick on a Friday, so we can go to the pub, all that kind of stuff, right? Company B, I know I'll give you a real word example, because I know the individual. The CEO, you know, takes regular weekend breaks, takes four day weekends, but rather than sending photos to his senior management teams, he hears me in the pub, he's like, hey, guys, want to let you know, just finish the Tour de Milca, just done a faulty mile bike ride through the mountains. It was amazing. I'd love you guys to get involved with it next year. Can you see how that inspiration piece is a company? You go, wow, look at that guy. I want to be like him. So suddenly, these senior executives go like, okay, what do we do? So then it becomes more about what do we do for the next night out with the team? Do we do a challenge? Should we maybe, rather than going to a restaurant and just eating pizza and drinking beer and having a fight in the night, or they're being all drama, why don't we go for a challenge? Why don't we take everyone away for a weekend and climb a mountain? We take our clients to Mount Snowden, go and climb a mountain. There's something that's challenging and, you know, gives you that kind of inspirational piece, rather than it being all about, you know, being on the booze and not being productive, right? So I think, you know, that company has spoken to individuals that have worked for that company and they've just hung around forever because it's lovely. They love being inspired by their CEO. They love being looking at someone that's, you know, sprinting upstairs and they're happy and they're, you know, chatting to everyone, they really open and stuff like that. And it's just that, the first person I spoke about, you know, I think those days are behind us now. I think those days are slowly getting behind us, some people are getting found out. And, you know, so this purpose in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s and 90s, but I think things are just slowly starting to change now because you won't compete. You won't compete. One of my favorite leadership books is called The Leadership Challenge. And it's a great book. Well, I'll rephrase. It's kind of a dry book, but the framework is so simple that I love it. I mean, I like the kiss principles. The leadership challenge is based upon, excuse me, this concept of five exemplary practices. And if you hold my feet to the fire, I'm not going to remember all five, but the first one is called Model the Way, which is exactly what you're talking about in the sense that when the CEO of the insurance company of Company A is out at the pub, drinking pints, doing shots, he's modeling or she's modeling the way that that is what we do here. And on the flip side, right, the CEO at Company B is modeling the way of health and fitness, right? So climbing the mountain. Here's where I want to get a little granular is real world or, well, let's say real world, right? Company B, the CEO is modeling the way of climbing the mountain. What else is he doing that maybe replaces the pub or replaces the business meeting at the steakhouse or whatever? What are some of the things that that that this company could do that others could potentially model after? Yeah, I think a big one, and this is a real practical one that I hear people using all the time, we recommend it as well, is breakfast meetings. So when you're meeting clients, when you're meeting team members, right? And I can comment very much on London because I'm from London, I'm a Londoner. I am London, London is me, right? I get the culture. The city is specifically, there's a massive alcohol culture, huge alcohol culture. And I can talk about insurance as well, because insurance is probably the worst of all of them. There's a massive alcohol culture, where it's not uncommon to see people in a pub having a meeting Monday at 11.30am drinking pints. It's normal. You come here now and we drive over there, you see it, right? And the issue with that is, again, talking back to the individual that's in their 20s, that may be cool and exciting because you've got a company card and you can do all this stuff. But when people hit that late 20s 30s, they started to realise this is not sustainable, this is not fun. This actually is a real pain because now I've got kids and I've got a wife, and suddenly she doesn't want me to start drinking at 12 o'clock on a Monday. That's an extreme example, but you know, there's a lot of that going on. So I think there's a couple of things that people can do. Firstly is the breakfast meeting, which is really important because, you know, there's always going to be people that love to have a drink. And by the way, we're not kind of completely 100% don't drink otherwise you can't work with us. We're not those people. What we are though is that get your train done first, get your fundamentals done, and then you can enjoy A, B and C. It's about doing the good stuff first, right? So that's C. I spoke about the guy that's cycling. He might go home a weekend and have two bottles one of his wife. He does he in private. He's still in great shape and he'll still be the gym on Monday. You see, it's about that kind of a little bit of balance. He's not doing it in front of his staff. He's not in the pub, right? So breakfast means it's really powerful because A is that you can do all the stuff you need to do. You can talk about client stuff. You can negotiate stuff in an environment where there's no alcohol in there. That's a great one. That's the first one. The second one as well is I think culturally, again in London, I can talk specifically about London, is that culturally with companies they give £50 maybe like $65, $70 to each member of staff per month to use for gym memberships. I can categorically tell you that that is pretty much a waste of money because most people save it up and they'll spend it on a voucher or something like that. Most people don't use it or some people use it and don't use the gym. What again, because you talk about granular stuff, what I would personally advise is if you are that person B and you're looking to kind of influence the culture, things like company challenges are great. Company challenges where you kind of organize something that's based around let's do a fun run, let's do a cycling challenge, all that kind of stuff. That for me has a real positive impact on the company as well. Not everyone's going to do it but if the big players, if the big dogs in the company are doing it and you say you need to come, suddenly that starts to inspire more and more people to do it. I definitely think day to day breakfast meetings is a good one. Actually, it kind of creating cultural changes around challenges and having events in the diary where personally what we find what's really well is where companies have culturally challenges, stuff in the diary that's quarterly and there'll be a bit of a night out afterwards but it's nowhere near what it would be if everyone started drinking at two o'clock and it's a big lunch meeting. So they're two that kind of ring a bell because they're ones that we work with companies to actually organize and they really really help. I appreciate the breakfast meeting and interestingly enough one of the longer standing lessons I learned from you and your team was adding vegetables to my breakfast. I remember at first when Craig told me that I was like what are you talking about? Breakfast is not about vegetables and sure enough Craig was like just do it and it's remarkable. It was like this smaller shift in my eating habits that made a big difference. There's lots of simple changes right, lots of simple things you can do. I mean again it's individual to each person but once you kind of understand the fundamentals then it becomes a lot easier. But I think again unfortunately and this is something that will be very controversial. Within the fitness industry people that are, I use my fingers influencers because they've got 500,000 followers which I know I don't want to say the f-word but I would do normally. You know it's not a bollocks. It doesn't matter how many followers you've got. It's about what's in here, what you know, your experience, your knowledge of working that type of person. I hear all the time people that are very successful in business, senior people that are getting the information from Instagram. It's like hold on we get new information from where? Instagram from a 21-year-old dude that's got a rippling six pack and telling you to eat pizzas because it fits in your macros. So what? Sorry? It kind of, it baffles me a little bit because these are probably intelligent people right but they're getting this information but it's kind of not their fault because the information that's out there is so shit, a lot of it's shit and it's just kind of all focused around, you know, flexibility and easy. It doesn't take any hard work and we all know, come on, if we all been honest with each other, nothing in life worth having is not hard work. It's all hard work, you know, it's all hard work and you know personally I'm doing a lot of work on myself, you know, I'm doing a lot of kind of work on being better in myself, being happier in myself because I know it's really hard and shit but I need to do it. So if you're a CEO, if you're a business owner and you're watching this and you kind of think that your journey from where you are to being in amazing shape and being really happy in your body is going to be found on Instagram and TikTok. I'm sorry to break it to you, it probably isn't. You're going to need a little bit more than that and you know it's going to be a journey, it's not going to be a quick fix, it's going to be you committing to something that's going to take, you know, four months to get you really rolling and probably a year to get to where you need to be. I want to go where you just went. The work on yourself. One of the things that I spend a good amount of time coaching my clients on and the way I describe it is the conversations we have with ourselves and a lot of people have negative self-narrative. I'm shit, I suck, I'm going to screw it up, no one's going to like me, fill in the blank. You don't necessarily, unless you want to, talk about your conversations but I'm curious about maybe two things. The first is, and let me not stack the questions, I'll ask them one at a time. What are you doing to feel better about yourself, the self-work that you just described? What are you doing? So I think from a training perspective, I, backtrack, I'm from sport, played rugby my whole entire life and sport used to do a couple of things for me. It used to give me a release because it meant that I could play a sport with physical, aggressive, you know, you can give it all your energy and it just left you physically spent where you're like okay now I can, everything's gone, I can start again and just focus on recovery. I think that's what sport does, it gives that competitive element where everything's just a focus on sport, being the best, so that kind of is a huge part of my life. When that stopped because of injury, I struggled with training. I didn't particularly enjoy training because there was nothing to train for, you've voted comments again. I wasn't training because I wanted to be stronger and more powerful and faster and hit people harder and score more tries, right? So I kind of lost that purpose part in me personally. So I think that's always been a struggle for me, is replacing that. So I think that was a major part of kind of, you know, how do I replace that? And I was never really, I've never, I'm never going to be that, even when I was a personal trainer back in the day, I was a personal trainer from the age of 17 to, you know, pretty much 30 something, the early 30s. I'm 38 by the way, people would be blown away without people because I'm 22, but I'm not, I promise. Just my mum anyway. So yeah, I think, I think replacing that training part, I've never really been, you know, you see the personal trainers are in the mirror like doing all this and looking at six, but it's never really been me. I've not been motivated by that. It's not really been motivated. I've always been more motivated by, you know, business success. So to answer your question, I think, you know, I've done a lot of work and there's some trauma in my past with my dad and my dad was ill. I think I told you before, you know, he had Alzheimer's. He died a year ago now, just over a year ago, but 15 years he was, you know, stuck in bed. He was not my dad anymore. He said kind of 15 years of that. So that was a trauma that really affected me. You kind of, if I was watching this has been through Alzheimer's with a family member, it's a shit one because you kind of lose them like five times, there's five stages to it. And even when he died, right, there was, it wasn't grief. It was like more of a relief. It was really strange, really strange. So there was that, all that kind of stuff going on. So, you know, from what I'm working on, some of that I'm working on, you know, my parents separated when I was very young as well, which I'm working on. So listen, I know it ain't the worst of the worst. I get that, but trauma is trauma, right? It's bad to every individual person. So it's kind of that part that I'm working on. I think as a man, and I talk about it a lot because, you know, I know we're going off a tangent here, but I feel maybe for the last five years, men have been, been a fighter a little bit online. They can't talk about emotions and men of shit. And it's like, I'm not shit. I'm a good man. Yeah, I'm a good man. So, you know, I kind of, you kind of feel, you know, maybe it's a bit deep, but you kind of feel like you can't talk about shit. I don't feel like that anymore. I'm happy to talk about it. So is that kind of, that kind of part of me that I've been working on a lot, you know, working through that trauma side of things and training never helped that. It never really fixed that problem. So that's part one, dude. The second part is kind of just being okay with myself and not doubting myself, you know. And again, who knows where it comes from? You're not a psychologist, I'm not a psychologist, but, you know, it's, I suppose as a business owner, you go through a fair few punches out of the ribs, right? You go through a lot of shit, you know, there's a lot of stuff to deal with. And it's a very lonely place, right? It's not as if you've got 10 people around, like, oh, you're doing a great job, keep going. No one talks to you. No one, you know, there's no, there's no kind of entrepreneur's hotline you can call and talk about and stuff, right? So, you know, I think that you talk about negative self talk. I think there's an element of, you know, do you deserve it? Can you do it? You know, what happens if it doesn't work? You know, is everyone going to think you're a dick? Is everyone going to think you're a failure? But I think for me, the biggest one for me, and they'll probably be business owners, listeners, and thinking the same, my biggest fear is being 75, 80 years of age on my death. Maybe 100 years of age to see how we're going. Sitting on the bed and going, what if, what if I've tried a bit harder? What if I'd have done that program? What if I'd have just kept going in over a couple of weeks? And that for me is the biggest, the biggest fear. So anything that I've got to go for, any kind of shit stuff that's sitting in front of people talking about stuff we don't want to talk about, hard conversations, you know, that's nothing compared to that thing down the road. I think probably I was linked into my dad because, you know, he had a lot of regrets. And I think I saw that and I was like, well, I don't want that. So I suppose I've kind of gone off a little bit of a tangent, but, you know, I think it's, we should all be working on ourselves anyway. And I think he's taken me to the age of, you know, from the age of kind of 34 to 38 now to really focus on it. And I think having kids that starting to get a little bit older and looking at you and going, what's daddy doing? What's daddy doing? Really makes you think, right, come on, you got to sort yourself out here because, you know, I can only comment as a dad. And I know this might not go down well. I've got sons. Sons look at their dad and that's the hero. So, you know, I think it's important that as men, we just work on ourselves as much as we possibly can. And funny enough, I've got a video coming out tomorrow, then we're going to post this, but 31st of July that talks about, you know, our responsibility over our bodies. Our responsibility is, you know, mums and dads and people that inspire our kids to take ownership over that and not to kind of, you know, spend so much time trying to grab the next dollar and drive around the Ferrari and everyone tell us how clever we are at the kind of detriment to our health. Because, you know, I've seen it. I've seen it quite regularly, you know, in my line of work, people that ignored it. And you can't hide from the, you can't hide from health. Well, it will bite you in the bum. So, work on yourself, be proactive around your health, you know, start small, keep moving forward. But yeah, we're all on a journey, right? We're trying to get better. So, you know, I don't answer the question. I've got the danger, but I don't answer the question. No, it's a great tangent. And what you're describing, I think, is a big reason why you and I connect so much. You know, my father passed away in '97 and now we are in a shitty club together of being fatherless. My dad also passed away because he didn't take great care of himself. Just like you, my self-talk, which was and still is when it comes out so defeating that it holds me back. I historically have entered situations with you're going to mess this up. You're not good enough. Why even try that type of stuff? So then, you know, your mindset going into it is already defeated and it's very hard to overcome that. Then we kind of fast forward to societal stuff, which sure, well, let me not say sure. I'm 10 years older than you. And when I was growing up, not that this was necessarily beat into my head, so to speak, but boys don't cry. Be strong. Be this rock. And quite frankly, in my house, we didn't talk about how you're doing. What's your emotional state? You're upset. Why are you upset? It was more of like, you know, get up, do it, get good grades, clean your room, whatever the messages were. And it was kind of like getting beat into me. And I was never really taught. And I don't think we as a society, a global society, from my point of view, does a great job of teaching young kids how to be okay and identify how they feel. The last thing I'll say, at least on this point is for me, I never had a vocabulary. I never knew what these emotions were. I just knew I was either pissed off or happy. And that was kind of the joke about me. And when I got divorced in 2013, happily, I went to a therapist, and she helped me see this wide range of emotions. And for me, that was a huge turning point was the ability to identify how I was doing above and beyond anger and happiness. And what I started to learn is that there was a lot of disappointment, some shame, a lot of insecurity. And that's what was driving me. So I relate to a lot of what you're saying in my own way. Yeah, you've made it, sorry to Jeff, I think you made a great point, because similar to me, it's kind of, you know, and a lot of business owners and successful people like this is where they're just about more, more, more, more, more, more, push, push, push, push, push, because maybe it's their scared of what will happen if they don't work this hard. Maybe it's because they've got such a big dream. Who knows? But, you know, it's not healthy, and I've fallen victim to it, and we've been open and candid about it, you know, I've collapsed for exhaustion from that mindset of more, more, more, more. And it's only at this stage in my life, and I'm not 85 years of age, but I'm getting a bit older, just starting to really kind of understand my energy and understand that, you know, yes, I'm probably more resilient than the average. Yes, I'm probably a bit more driven than the average, but I'm still a human. I've got a human body. It's not. I'm not Robocop. And kind of, you know, having those, probably three or four occasions where I've been, I don't know what the term would be, but fucked. It would be how I would call it, you know, for one of a better word, but knackered, exhausted, finished, you know, gone, burnt out, we want to call it. It's taken those for me to see those, for me to go, wow, I can't keep doing this because my 48-year-old body can't do what my 22-year-old body could do. I'm sure a 48-year-old body can't do what a 22-year-old body can do. I'm sure people watching this during the 50s know that they can't do what they used to do. So I think energy state is really important. Understanding you spoke about seeing emotions and letting them pass and pass and understand what is that, what is it, what is it showing me, you know, what does it mean? But I think energy kind of works a little hand-in-hand with that because, you know, as business people, and we help our clients with this as well, to understand and look, you know, what they're doing is sort of sustainable. And unfortunately, what we see a lot is that people don't necessarily, you know, feel burnt out, but they get so exhausted, so, you know, burnt out, so kind of dry and there's nothing left to give. They get ill. I could name you 10 people that I know that are very driven people that end up pneumonia, serious pneumonia, you know, real pneumonia that's life-threatening pneumonia because they've just driven and pushed and pushed and pushed and eventually the body just run on the adrenaline and they've kept going because so resilient and then boom, you know, they're in serious trouble. And, you know, once you've had that first wake up, call that big one, the next one's not great. The next one is heart problems. It's, you know, the C word, stuff like that. So, you know, I think it's really important that people, especially business people, I talk about business people specifically, it's who we help, right? But we see all the time, it's all about the culture of go-go more and more. It's just not sustainable. Probably in 20s, you can do it, but when you get into 30s and 40s and 50s, you're just not, it's not viable. So, yeah, I think working on yourself, understanding that you get one body, you get one brain, that's it. You don't get a second chance of this. So, you know, don't be the guy that went, "Oh shit, I wish I would have started this 10 years ago," because it's a bit, it's very difficult. Yeah. All right, as we get to the end of our conversation, we've heard a little bit about the importance of not just training and working out, but the partnership of working out with healthy lifestyle, eating well, etc. We heard about the importance of mindset, and I don't think you use that word, and I know it's a very coachy word, but it is, like, how are we doing? What's our mental fitness and our mental health? Any last parting thoughts? Any point of thoughts? No, I think it would be great just to summarize how amazing Darren is. I think he's a great guy. I know he's very, very good at what he does, and I really appreciate, you know, what he does as a coach, I think he's amazing. And, you know, if you're watching this podcast and you want a bit of advice on, you know, what Darren does around leadership coaching, he's your man, you want to advice, any friendly conversations around health, or how do you fit workouts in your diary, and how do you kind of, how do you fix your health when you don't have a spare moment to breathe? Give me a shot, because, as you can tell, we're open and chatty people. We're very happy to help you. It's fine when you said the entrepreneur's hotline earlier, I was thinking, "Isn't that what we are?" Hey, go, yeah, collaboration. Let's go. Eat some, eat some capes though, right? Eat some capes. I love it. All right, Mr. Cam Harris, managing director of Truth Fitness. Thank you very much. Cheers, Darren. Thank you. All right, bye.
