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Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all got back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better. With NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get the most live NFL games all in one place every game, every Sunday, and you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical and also YouTube TV is great. I got it this year. It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com/bs device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV and a family ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to rates and barrels. It is Tuesday, July 30th. Happy trade, deadline, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day, day. Thank you so much for joining us today, we're going to be having a great weekend. We're going to be having a great weekend, we're going to be having a great weekend, we're going to be having a great weekend, we're going to be having a great weekend, we're going to be having a great weekend, we're going to be having a great weekend, we're going to be having a great weekend, we're going to be having a great weekend, we've got a microscope on their 40-man, we'll have to look at their depth charts and figure out who's going to play this year and who's going to play later. Pretty exciting, I also think though that maybe it is due to the hype machine and some of the stuff going into it where we want to put bigger names on the block than are actually on the block, but if you're going to sit here and tell me that Terrick Schoebel and Garrett Crochet and Blake Snell are going to be traded, then I am going to maybe look at the list and say, "You say Kuchin, Jack Flaherty got traded?" and say, "It was a dud." I mean it's a little bit, maybe our responsibility is part of the media in terms of raw moves, in terms of people actually doing things despite it being the seller's market. I thought it was pretty good. Yeah, it's been full of moves. I love it. Friedrich in the live hives. If the giants don't trade Snell, I walk into the Pacific, pick a warm part of the Pacific. I recommend Southern California to Northern California. See you on Twitter. If Brian Rochio is still on the Guardian's roster in three hours, I'm going to drink a bottle of ketchup. Wouldn't recommend that. Probably not a good idea. I like ketchup all right, not that much. It's poor. Yeah, the Guardian's turnout. That's so funny. The Guardian's turnout short stop after short stop and are renowned for being a pitching machine and they go and get Alex Cobb and maybe leave Brian Rochio at short stop. It's okay. They got an upgrade. They got Lane Thomas. We'll get into that one here in just a couple of minutes. Let's get caught up on some of the big trades that have happened since you and I last spoke on Monday evening. You say Kuchi could be the best starting pitcher moved at this deadline. We'll see what happens in these next 20 minutes or so. Four player deal and a lot of people think this was a huge return for the Blue Jays because Kuchi will be a free agent at the end of the season. So this is purely a rental. It's Jake Bloss, Joey Low-Perfido and Will Wagner all going back to the Blue Jays. But I think people just underrate. You say Kuchi, we saw skills growth last year. He sustained it through this season. The results haven't been there in terms of the ERA and WIP getting to where they should be for the strikeout and walk rates that Kuchi is posting. But I think if you're an Astros fan and if you're looking at this from a fantasy perspective, you're excited about Kuchi going to Houston. Yeah, I really value the conversation that I've had with many people about Kuchi since it came out. I've talked with Matan Kay on Twitter and Alex Chamberlain. And there was a lot of different and then in our discord, we talked about Kuchi. I got DMs from different people. Most of them are polite. So that was enjoyable. I mean, what I'm saying that he's better than Jack Flaherty. It's a stuff play. He throws harder than Black Jack Flaherty. He has a fastball that looks similar to Kuchi does to Tyler Glassnow's and a 90-man hour slider. Guess who has a harder slider than Kuchi among qualified starters? Tyler Glassnow. So it's a high stuff thing. As some people have pointed out, he has allowed a higher exit velocity than other pitchers. It's not something I traditionally look at. But when you're 700 plus innings in and he's shown that tendency, it's something to think about, I guess. He has a 309 career Babip 340 this year, though. Kuchi, despite the Blue Jays being a well-regarded defensive team by most statistics. So I think there's still a fair amount of luck in here, even if maybe the location numbers aren't sophisticated enough to capture the fact that his command is still a problem. It was a problem before. Maybe it still is a problem, and that's led to some of this hard contact against him. But if I'm going to go into the post season, I just want a guy who throws wicked hard and has great stuff. And I think Kuchi's ahead of Flaherty on my list, but a lot of smart people disagree with me. In any case, what they gave up is also a little bit overrated, I think. Joey Loperfito strikes out too much and is probably a corner outfield first baseman defensively. That's where he was played by the team that was using him. And he's going to have to hit for a ton of power to overcome some of those strikeout issues. So he may not be a regular. And then Jake Bloss has a pretty good fastball, pretty good slider. He kind of strikes me as a little bit lesser version of Spencer Schwellenbach, where he's a good fastball, a good slider. You don't know about the curve and the change. Neither is an elite pitch. And so it's kind of profiles 4.56 to me, which of course, when it's cheap, is still pretty exciting for the Blue Jays. But I don't know that this was such the overpay that people will expect. I mean, just look at what happened with the best reliever, rental reliever on the market. Tanner Scott goes out and gets traded in a four-player deal as well. And he gets Robbie Snellingback, whose command is cratered, the same similar thing. Guys who are like, Oh, I know these names. You know, oh, this must be a good haul. But it's like, I don't know if you've noticed, but Robbie Snelling's command is really cratered. Adam Maeser came up and kind of showed us that his fastball is not great. And it showed us he had some struggle striking on Major League batters. I forget who else is in the day, a grand poly may not be a regular hitter. You know, in terms of pairing that defense and power quality somewhere on the diamond, it may be kind of like a third baseman. It doesn't hit enough to be a third baseman, you know? So it's not obvious to me that they overpaid, but they definitely paid for a high-end rental and gave up names that people recognize. So those are the two overpays on the market today, I guess. Yeah, the Padres late inning situation is really tight now, right? Because you already had Robert Suarez pitching really well. You added Jason Adam in a separate trade. Now you got Tanner Scott in the mix as well. So it could be lights out from the seventh inning on and the middle guys aren't bad either. It's going to be interesting to see how that bullpen holds up down the stretch, given some of the demands the rotation might put on them could be heavy workloads for that group in the final two months. But I think Snellings is pretty fun by low for the Marlins. He's so young. He's not going to turn 21 until December. He was baseball America's pitcher of the year last year. Yeah, he made it to double a last season. So even though things haven't gone great for him in 2024, given his age, that's a great profile to bet on a guy that could be an impact starter sooner rather than later despite how things have gone this year. So to get that for Tanner Scott, a guy that has been really good, but also has shown us a very wide range of outcomes in his career, I think that alone is kind of the headliner for the package is great work by Peter Ben Dix in that Marlins front office. Yeah, and for what it's worth, Lance Brosdowska just saw a note from him. He said he still saw 60 plus percent strikes on most of Snellings offerings. So he's not exactly sure that the command is cratered as much as the walk rate suggests there may just be, you can have you can have luck in a walk rate. You know, it's like, when does the ball come? You know, it comes to two or two one instead of three two. This is a, that's a fun one arrest is to Strarty mentioned on the live. I love it. Thanks, Jason. That's a great callback. I've forgotten completely about arrest is to Strarty. But yeah, this has been a busy day so far. We saw the Marlins get involved in a trade with the Orioles where they got two guys back that should plug in right away for this lineup. Trevor Rogers joins the Orioles, he's going to start and you look at what they get back Connor Norby and Kyle Stowers. Two guys that are major league ready that were pretty well blocked in Baltimore. I'm curious from the Orioles perspective, what do you think they might change if anything with Trevor Rogers to get better results from him because he's just not the same guy that he was when he broke into the league from a stuff perspective? Yeah, and I know people are pointing to like his last seven starts. He has like a three and a half year array, but it's not supported by the peripherals. I mean, he has like an 18% strikeout rate and a 10% walk rate. That is, that is not good. And that, you know, you put that in the a at least. I do not think it produces a 350 right. So, you know, you're looking, you could don't have to look at stuff itself, but you can look at Velo. He used to be 95. He's 91 now. You know, I mean, going from 95 to 91, you know, I just feel like, can I talk any faster? No, I can't. I can just do it in bursts, but 91 91 is not good from Trevor Rogers. I don't know what they're thinking. Actually, I hate this trade for the Orioles, honestly, if I had to dig down deep and try to figure it out for the athletic today and the best I could figure out is that his sliders had different shapes. So maybe they could go back to a shape he's thrown in the past and say, you know, this one that was a little bit more like a curve ball. We'd like it better stuff. Plus liked it better when it was kind of a curve ball. So maybe, you know, that's a possibility that, you know, they changed something about it. Maybe they can unlock some of his mechanics, get back to 95. He has thrown a pitch 95 eight this year. So maybe they could get him to sit 93 again. Maybe he's been mailing it in. You know, maybe 93 is still in there. Maybe he's just 91 because, hey, I'm on the Marlins. This sucks. So, you know, I don't know, but you know, it's generally is change up first guy who hasn't thrown a good breaking ball almost ever in his career and whose fastballs are giving up nearly 500 slugging this year. So I don't know what they're thinking. But I did notice that when I looked at the projections from Norby and Stowers, they were both for below average offense, which surprised me a little bit. But I think that's a relevant for the Marlins. They're close. They have some ability. Getting a guy, guys like Norby and Stowers, if you're the Marlins, I think it makes a lot of sense. You got to take a chance on guys. You can plug them in the lineup now. You can give them chance and see, you know, I think basically those guys just need more opportunity. Yeah. And that's what they're going to have in Miami. We do have Britt Jolie with us now. So jump shoot among those in the live hive. Wondering what we do with Britt. Britt's been doing double duty. Trying to confirm moves while joining the show. But Britt, we know the Orioles prospect depth had made this a possibility to take guys like Norby and Stowers and move them in deals. And maybe there's still more to come for them. What are your expectations for both of these guys now that they should have a clear runway of playing time for the rest of this season and through 2025 in Miami? Yeah. Well, I think part of the reason you know you're talking about projections being kind of low on those guys is that neither of those guys fit long term into the Orioles' plans. They simply haven't gotten the playing time. And I think they both launched like a thousand plate appearances in AAA. So a guy like Stowers in particular, I know, about two weeks ago, the Orioles said to him, like, look, we know you're blocked. We know you deserve to be in the big leagues. We're going to try to trade you. So it was not really a big surprise that he was included in the steel. And on paper, I also hate this trade for the Orioles. But the longer I think about it, the more it's like, OK, if Stowers is blocked and he's not going to fit into their plans. If Norby also really doesn't have a consistent path to playing time, the Orioles almost have so many riches that they almost are OK overpaying because neither of these guys are going to be on the big league team. So is it worth getting Rogers? No, it's really not. But what's the flip side? Having these guys at AAA where eventually they peak, right? Eventually they're value peaks, and you're not going to be able to do anything with them. So I understand it a little bit from that perspective. I think Stowers can be a consistent every day big leader, and Norby was just scratching the surface. I mean, he's the fifth best prospect in the Orioles system means he's probably a top three prospect in most other systems. The Orioles are just so loaded, you know, that that's what it is. So these are guys who are going to slot in right away for the Marlins who low key and are going to get later into the winners and losers are having a hell of a trade deadline. Just have an absolute haul for Tanner Scott. I mean, they have really decided we're going to go all in nine months after making the playoffs. We're going to burn this down to the studs, and they are picking the right trade deadline to do that because it is absolutely a seller's market. I think that was really smart to bring up their age. Kyle Stowers is 26. I believe Norby is already 24. Would you have among prospect circles, and when you're trading, you have kind of little expiration sell-by dates a little bit. Yeah. Once you get to, once you get to, I'm trying to trade this 28 year old or 27 year old, people aren't really listening anymore. I mean, part of the math there is just that players tend to peak at 26. So, you know, if you've got Towers, Stars at 26, you're not going to sell them at for any more down the road. I think the other question that's kind of coming out of the live hive right now is, are you confident the Orioles are a good organization for pitchers? Beyond the park and the changes they've made that have made it a much more pitcher-friendly home park, do they make pitchers better? My lean is, yeah, and I think Kyle Braddish, his development pre-injury is a good sign. I think you take a look at some of the John Means, even before that, was kind of a pop-up guy. They found Albert Suarez, brought him back over. He's been really nice for them as a back-end guy. So, I think there is an ability to identify a talent, coach it up a little bit, and maximize ability. So, even if Rogers is a number four starter for them, they've needed pitching for the last couple of years. We talk about it a lot on the show, and usually we're aiming higher than this, but it doesn't mean that they can't continue to find upgrades. Maybe this winter, they'll get the big ace to replace Corbin Burns, although extend Burns and add something then. Yeah, I want to push back slightly on that, because they got Jack Flaherty last year, and I remember being on this podcast with you guys, and we all were like, "This is not a good move," right? We didn't really see the path there. It seemed like kind of the safe... And then we said, "Maybe they'll make them better. Maybe they'll get the... Maybe they see something." And they didn't really get anything out of it. They have a little bit of a track record, but I also just wonder, with so many starters seemingly available, and with such a wealth prospect capital, last year they played it safe. And we said, "Okay, well, they played it safe throughout the beginning of their window." How many years, if this is it for them, and it just may well be, we're 15 minutes to the deadline, how safe is too safe? I did they go too safe. I think they went a little too safe here. I know they got Corbin Burns to start the season, and we kind of all forget about that, and that was the big splash. Oh, breaking news. Just as you said it. Okay, so they're making other moves, because to me... But it's still not an arm. It's kind of funny. Yeah, this was a little bit of a disappointing trade deadline on that front, because it felt like, "Okay, last year could be excused as a beginning of their window. Okay, they have so many guys now. Is this the time?" But again, if we saw what the Astros had to pay to get a rental, we saw the price here for Rogers. Was it just going to be too much to land some of these guys, or are they better off waiting until the winner? You can make that case. You can also make the case that if they go away in the first round, like they did last year because they don't have any pitching, that we're going to say they squandered another year where these guys were under team control. So it is a really difficult situation to be in, and I don't envy Michael Ias and that front office at all, because you are trying to kind of thread the needle here between long-term sustainability and "going for it" this year, and it's just a very tricky situation to be in. Yeah, and I think to some extent there's a math that every team does that's a contender that says, "Who is our playoff starter? Is this a starter who gets us there? Then I just want to give you something really small and just get a rental or just a guy who's got him plug in for a while, or is this a guy who's going to start a playoff game for me?" And they may have looked around and said, "We probably have our playoff starters here right now." And so we're just in, at least, in Grayson Rodriguez and Corbin Burns. So maybe they just didn't think that they needed to go, but Trevor Rodgers is kind of weird in between too, because he's not a playoff starter, but you've got him for a couple of years. So it's kind of acquiring depth for many deadlines. I don't know. It's a little bit of a weird one. And Eloy Jimenez is kind of a funny fit too. Yeah, but it's a funny fit for the Orioles, because I guess he's just going to DH. Right. It makes things a little more crowded in a position player group that's been crowded. Yeah, this is a meaner for me. I mean, he's getting, it looks like 13 million in the final year of that sixth year, $43 million deal. The White Sox obviously just looking for anybody to take him, many takers at this point in time. And yeah, Eflin is a good one. I know. I think I have no problem with the Eflin move. I think that is a silent number three starter. However, because they're missing so many guys, I felt like they needed to move more towards that, like, get another three, get two threes. I don't consider Rodgers a three. He is a five. Yeah. You know, he's as you wrote, might be better in the bullpen, but they're not going to put him in the bullpen. They need him as a starter. They got him as a starter. So I have no problem with the Eflin move. I thought it was going to be Eflin and maybe a higher end pitcher. And I wonder if I put Kakuchi on every team. Yeah. He was, he was your set Lugo of the deadline where you were just playing play this game everywhere. And yeah, hey, everybody was interested. You could tell by the price the the Astros had to pay to get him. I wonder if we'll see Rodgers kind of work like Andrew Heaney in the postseason where he'll fall to the rotation, but he'll chew up two innings here and there in games where I started. Get a bunch of lefties in a row. Yeah. That might be the way they decide to deploy him. In no, his change up is his best pitch. So it might be right. He's who knows. You know, we love talking stats here at the athletic. Here's one that's super simple to remember. Discover automatically doubles the cashback you've earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with cashback match. That means with discover, you could turn $150 cashback to $300. That's right. You could put it towards a memorabilia you've had your eye on or treat yourself to a premium sports network. You earn and discover doubles. See terms at discover.com/creditcard. Lane Thomas traded yesterday, sent to Cleveland in a four player swap. This is a hard one for me, because I know this makes the Guardians better. The hardest thing for me to figure out is Lane Thomas still being below average against righties, even though he just had a breakout in 2023, right? There's legitimate speed. There's some power. He's an above average regular despite being a below average hitter against righties each of the last four seasons. So as much as I like this move for the Guardians, because it gives their lineup some depth, I'm wondering how long the Lane Thomas gravy train can keep rolling. Yeah. Well, it's funny because as I wrote for our trade grades for the athletic, people forget you can grade this train to vacuum or you can look at it as the Nationals turned two months of John Lester into Lane Thomas, which is how they originally got to this point. And then they turned it into a whole bunch of more prospects. I don't have a huge problem with this yield from Cleveland side. It's a smaller upgrade, a marginal upgrade for an offense that all of a sudden looks like it needs some real help. Lane Thomas last year was the year to trade Lane Thomas. That would have been the quote-unquote haul or the peak of the Lane Thomas projections. As you said, he had a career year. My issue with the nat- Probably should have traded him last year. Yeah. My issue with the nat's return, and I think we'll feel that way about Kyle Finnegan, who doesn't look like he's getting moved because the return is the asking prices to eye. I think we'll look back on that next year and say they should have felt how Finnegan when his price was this high that what Tanner Scott just got. I think from the Nationals point of view, they're kind of selling the we're going to be good very soon. They've got all these young guys that are up now. Mackenzie Gore and CJ Abrams and James Wood just came up, and then they get these prospects that are in a ball. I kind of figured they would be targeting guys who are a little closer to Major League ready. The guys, they got really the prospects involved in this deal, the two prospects. There's one utility player as well. 2027, 2028 for Major League readiness. To me, that's just a hard sale. It's very different from the Marlins who got a lot of players who are right at the cost. Exactly. I mean, what you have, I think, when you make that decision is, I mean, yes, there are timelines. It's good for you to point that out. If they're close, why are they getting these young guys? But with the young guys, you sometimes get more upside, and if you count on your scouts, you say, "Oh, our scouts were really good with Abrams and Wood." And let's take the guys who are further away where it's more scouting, I think, than numbers. The closer you get to the big leagues, the more the numbers mean something. That's why the A's have often gotten guys who are close to the big leagues because they're like, "Hey, those guys, the projections are more solid. You can believe them. The guys done this in AAA. You can believe you can do this in baseball." It's a great point. Yes. And to be fair, James Wood was a guy who was like 18 years old when they got him in the Soto train. It was all about four and eight weeks. He goes fast. Yeah. Though I did hear that H.A. Proller, who I think we can all attest, is a bit of a savant with the drafting and finding these guys, was heartbroken over Wood. That was the one guy he didn't want to trade and people were like, "You're crazy. He's 18. He's got really low energy. Come to find out that's just the way he plays." And also, he's going to be a superstar. So, H.A. Proller, you could say what you will about that guy. He seems to be excellent at identifying and drafting talent. And the Padres keep dealing from a farm system that should be depleted by now. They just keep restocking. All the Ethan Solis is left right now. The funny thing for me, though, is that the Guardians are almost like what we were saying about the Orioles last year. They're forever too safe. They're in first place, like a second ago, they had the best record in the big leagues. Was that true? Was that how close are they, the best record in the big leagues? They have the most wins in baseball. They're tied with the Phillies. So, then they go out and they get Alex Cobb and Lane Thomas. And if Lane Thomas is below average against Rites, as you said, Will Brennan is actually average against Rites? So, did they just get a short sample, short side platoon, extra outfielder, and Alex Cobb, who just popped a blister? I mean, I like Alex Cobb. I'm just trying to be a little bit negative. It's a great way to put it. Now, this is a team in the front office, though, that prioritizes wins per dollar, right? Not just win. See, it really seems to. I mean, this is like the Fangraps 2005 front office. Yeah. And it's again, like kind of what we're seeing. It's kind of the drawback of these very smart, very savvy, very risk-averse model front offices. Sometimes you just got to go for it. And that's why having the AJ Prellars and the Dave Dombrowski's of the world, like sometimes prospects are prospects, right? Sometimes you just got to push your chips and then you're right for Cleveland. We talked about their pitching staff on the podcast and how they don't think they're going to hold up. Is Alex Cobb enough for you to say, this is a World Series team? And why not? Can't we say this is a World Series? There's no reason why Cleveland can't have World Series aspirations. We are past the half-way mark. As you said, their record speaks for itself. It is a little underwhelmed. We did see Jorge Solaire get traded to Atlanta. Again, it worked last time Ronald LeCunha Jr. Tour and ACL. So they get some power back. What's the expectation here? We got breaking news? Jack Flaherty to the Dodgers. Hey, there it is. And Garrett Crochet not going anywhere. Oh, no, we got the Garrett Crochet staying put news also for the White Sox, this trade deadline. But we'll get into that later. Yeah, I like the Flaherty to the Dodgers because that is an organization that has a pensions for finding, you know, Flaherty has pitched really well. He's not the Reclamation Project that the Orioles were getting last year. He's pitched very well. He's in an organization that is going to make sure he continues to pitch really well. We haven't seen the return yet, but you know, Andrew Friedman has had himself very quietly a very good deadline. Now, when you look at between this, the routine trade, the Dodgers are getting healthier. They are going to be an absolute juggernaut. Now you add Jack Flaherty to that rotation. I don't know what you guys initial reacts on that, but this was a market where a lot of people want to check Flaherty. So I'm curious how much they gave up, but I almost don't care because this is a win now Dodgers team, obviously. So what's different this year? You know, we talked about Flaherty at last year's deadline. The concern was that he sat right around a Vilo threshold with the fastball that really made his effectiveness waiver. Why will it be different in these final two plus months with the Dodgers? No, it's the exact same thing. It's amazing. You know, he he's averaged 93.5 this year on the four seamer. And that seems like not much off of 93.1 for last year. But I have the numbers in front of me over 94 miles an hour. Jack Flaherty has, let's see, this is under 94. He has a 280 batting average 390 OBB for 60 slugging on the fastballs with an 18% whiff. Over 94, it's 253, 327, 349 slugging with 27% whiffs. I mean, I think that's a pretty big shelf. And what you see if you look at his velocity over time this year is that it's going down. And if you look at his results, they're going down. And I think that one of the things that happens when we look at a player like this is we see the good results at the beginning and they're supported by a good velocity and a great strikeout minus walk rate. And we don't really check back in on our priors. So, you know, for example, you know, he had he had like 94 plus Vilo earlier. I mean, there were some 95 games in March and April. And his K-minus BB in March and April was 30% in May was just under 30%. In June, it was 25%. In July, when he started falling under 93 in some games, it was 19.7%. So, his results have been slowly going back down to kind of where we thought he was before. The stuff has been going down. The Vilo has been going down. And it's all happening right around this shelf. We did see, you know, the first couple of games that he goes to Baltimore last year after we talked about this, he did throw 94 plus and he did and I think have a good debut with the Orioles last year, but he wasn't able to keep it up. And so I kind of see this telling the same story of him kind of just not being as good as we thought he was because everyone's going to look at the K-minus BB and look at, you know, say, oh, it's, it's, you know, top end stuff from, you know, beginning of the season, but it hasn't been quite the same since. I mean, let me see what I have for him on the last game was all right. And that's probably a little bit of like, oh, I see the tread deadline coming. And I'm about to get traded. Oh, no, 92 eight in his last game. And he's had a 92 two since June started. So, you know, it's definitely the trend is downward in his Vilo and that bothers me. Yeah, because he's a two pitch pitcher, mostly. The Rays acquired Dylan Carlson as well. There's a bunch of moves trickling it. And I said this earlier on Twitter, they only have to be agreed upon at six. So sometimes it takes a while for them to kind of trickle out. Um, the Rays, maybe the best deadline. What do you guys think? There's been potter has gotten Martin Perez. Yeah. I think both Florida teams have done really well. They've been active. They've gotten volume back, but they've gotten some quality back as well. And I think when you look at Dylan Carlson, in particular, we've wondered for years if there was one more gear there because of the type of hitter he was coming through the cardinal system. They just haven't been able to maximize the ceiling that we thought he had. Tampa Bay is one of those places hitters go with sometimes limited power or an approach that needs to be tweaked. The tweak happens and they reach a new level. So as far as places Dylan Carlson could have landed, that's about as good as it gets from a hitting instruction and development standpoint. Yeah, exactly. And the Cardinals have low key. I think had a pretty decent trade deadline as well. They get reliever Sean Armstrong back. They kind of were targeting today. bullpen depth. Obviously, we're involved in that three team trade earlier in the week. But I think the Rays have put on a clinic as to how to reset and reload the Marlins as well. I mean, look, you look at this market. Like we said, it's a seller's market. So if you were a fringy team, you know, maybe it benefited you. But the teams that decided, you know what, we're going all in, we're selling down to the studs have really come out strong. I mean, you know, a Rosarina, fam, ESAC parades, I don't think anyone saw that one coming. I mean, you look at what the Rays have done and what they've cleared payroll wise and what they've brought back. The same thing for the Marlins. These are organizations in much better situations. Then they were a week or two ago. So I really like what both of these teams have done. If there's going to be winners. I'm going to push back a little bit on the Rays. Oh, and you know what's coming. I mean, they're above 500. Like, I know that they're in a hard division, but I was a little surprised to see them trade off guys who will be who could have been with the team for years to come. And, I don't know, it's a little bit that the cynicism in me reaches a certain level when you start to think about their stadium deal and is this are they like to potentially like taking a step back on purpose in order to be more have more in place when the stadium is in place or something. I don't know. It's they weren't that expensive of a team. They didn't have to cut money. Like, I don't know. Yeah, but maybe this is just what they've always done. And I should just be quiet, but it just seemed like cycles and they haven't been bad in a while. So they kind of to reset. But they aren't bad. They're bad. They're three and a half back in the wildcard. They're not a team who you look at it and you're like, okay, are you look at the American League, though? Are they better than Cleveland? Are they better than Baltimore? Are they better than Houston? I know. But how about this twins? Like the Royals just got better. I agree with you, but what if they had just done the safe trade deadline thing, then we'd be knocking them like we're knocking some of these other teams if they just made marginal fringy upgrades, right? They had two choices. They do the fringy upgrades and play for the wildcard or they burn it to the studs. Yeah, I mean, I guess those are really their two options. I think the one team I think of that's kind of and I also think there's so many different perspectives you can take when you're analyzing this. You can take it from the competitiveness standpoint. You can take the, you know, whether they make the team, make it this year standpoint where they make it over many years standpoint. Do we take the standpoint more of sort of the front office or we take the standpoint more fans? And sometimes I think the standpoint of fans gets dropped behind. And so would you rather be a fan of the Giants right now or the Rays? Because both of them are like three and a half teams, just in terms of the trade deadline they had. They're both about three and a half games back. They both sold to some extent, but the Giants are keeping blakes now it looks like. And they're trying to just sell off the pieces that were most expensive and and stay in it. I don't know. I just, it seems a little bit painful to me to be a Tampa Bay Rays fan. It's, you know, it's the way they've existed though forever. It's the same with the Marlins, though. Nine months ago, they want to play off game. If you could say the same thing about both of those organizations though, can't you? Instead of just being a Tampa Bay. I don't think the Marlins were healthy under the hood in terms of, you know, they may have won a playoff game, but I don't think that that was, it was a great organization right away. And I feel like the Rays are a better team. Sure, but the Marlins sold by like me. They were done by like, remember they were, they've been waving the white flag since basically opening day, it feels like. What's strange for me is that I look at the returns the Rays got and Christopher Morell is a fun player. We talked a lot about him on the Monday episode. Where is he going to play defensively? Second base tonight? Is that going to work in the long run? No idea. I don't know if they can make him a passable defender at any infield position, but they at least will try. They, they have a core of good pitching. Taj Bradley's having a breakout year. Shane Boz is healthy again. Shane McClanahan comes back eventually. Pepio looks like a nice pickup from the glass now deal. Jeffrey Springs is healthy now. We know they can always find relievers. Trading Randy Arosarina, it was like inevitable, but it doesn't make me any less sad for Rays fans because he was one of their impact guys. He was one of those guys that has showed up on the big stage for them, but also had the ability to be a consistent above average regular. And I think the hard thing that is similar with both the Rays and the Giants is the extreme mixing and matching on top of the selling at the deadline when you do have at least a chance of going to the playoffs. Like that's hard, but the the mixing and matching, I think always makes it hard to get really like into a roster. So when you have a player like Randy Arosarina and you trade him away, that stings a little bit more because he's not one of your semi regulars. He's one of your recognizable stars. Yeah, I agree with that. Listen, I don't think it's a fun deadline of your Rays fan by any means, but I think the alternative is just half selling, right? And then do you really get any better or half going for it? I don't know. I like teams that pick a lane dramatically, whether that's sellers or buyers. This is the time to create excitement in the sport for these bigger deals to go through. And I think if you're Tampa Bay, you're looking at it as like, is this a World Series team? Probably not. So operating under Tampa Bay's constraints, right? Like Cleveland approaches this the same way, but they're even safer. If Tampa Bay had Cleveland's record, I think they would be a little more aggressive, don't you? A little more creative. You've done some things like the Nelson Cruz trades, you know, done some things in the creative when it comes to things and things. Yeah, they supposedly offered some big one-year deals to some of the bigger free agents that have come and gone. So they're supposed to judge. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I like, I like, I mean, I like what they do generally. It just this trade deadline, I was like, little surprise in a negative way that they sold so hard. I think it's really easy to like what the Marlins have done. I think that they needed to do this. They couldn't, they couldn't feel a really good lineup. They have it in a long time. Maybe one year there was okay, but they really needed position players, and they got a lot of close position players, and they did it really fast. So that's an easy win for me. In terms of buyers, who are your favorite winners? The Dodgers. I like the Dodgers. What they just did. The Dodgers, that's Flaherty. And who else they got? Flaherty, they got Edmund in the three team swap. Who, yeah, Derek and I think might just be their starting shortstop. They did one other thing. I feel like we need a list because so many deals are trickling in that I'm getting confused. Yeah, Copac was part of that deal too. Okay, I was like, wait, they got another reliever. Big time reliever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and honestly, I think that they were one of the bigger winners on the buyer side. I like what the Cardinals did a lot too. I mean, we know the mandate from ownership to not add was not to spend any money. Not to add. So then, you know, you have to, again, not approach it too much from the fan side, but kind of also thread the needle. And I think what Missiliac did in kind of swapping guys and getting involved in that three team trade that they could address their concerns. Yeah, it wasn't bad. I mean, Brandon Donovan kind of made Edmund a little bit and Mason when made Edmund expendable. And you took that $8 million and you turned it into an outfielder that could help, that could help you now for as a rental. It is funny. Tell me, fam, coming back, but yes, I don't love it. I don't love Fettie, but he is totally a Cardinals type type starter. And he fits right in. I honestly think the white Sox shouldn't even have gotten involved in that trade because they were totally fleeced in the Fettie, Fettie Copac return when you look at what they got. Really was not. Yes, deals can still trickle in. I said this before. They only need to be agreed upon. So just because they're agreed upon us and automatically me in the media know someone's asking our livestream about that. But really, it's like a half an hour by six 30. If you haven't heard, your team is done. Right? Yeah, the Red Sox just got Luis Garcia, who I had. I had Luis Garcia as a top five option among rental relievers by stuff plus. And that's great because that's funny. The Red Sox got Lucas Sims who was second on that rental reliever stuff plus this Tanner Scott and Luis Garcia, who I think was fourth or fifth. And they did not go to the table for Tanner Scott. So I kind of like that, you know, going and getting the second and fourth options for a lot cheaper than being at the table at the first. Yeah, I like I like the Mets too. It's like sneaky winners here as buyers. They very quietly David Sterns remade that bullpen without giving up very much. The Paul Blackburn deal again really gave up a fringy he's like 28 or 29th prospect for a guy who isn't going to like the world on fire in Blackburn. But he's been a serviceable starter. They're missing Kawadai Sangha. They're not certain what's going to happen with Christian Scott. And they have him pass this year. And when you look at what the market has been like for starting pitchers, I think they really didn't give up a lot. And they got better without sacrificing their future. So I think they're one of like the quieter, you know, maybe not the splashy Dodger winners, but a really solid like B plus if I had to grade deadline for the Mets. I think you got to give the Mariners at least a B if not a little better. I mean, Randy Rosarayna makes that team a lot better. They have him beyond this season. So they fixed a longer term problem at the deadline. They made the bullpen even better because they added Amy Garcia. They got J.T. Shargua is a small trade today. So two more relievers. One of them being a really good high leverage guy. We talked about the quality of that rotation last week on our live stream of Trevor. And when you have a rotation as good as the Mariners do, Castillo Kirby, Gilbert Bryce Miller, if that quartet stays healthy, you really shouldn't ever punt a season. You should continue trying to build around that because having pitching that good is rarely something that lasts several years. Take advantage of it while you can. And I think they at least did that in a decent way. Maybe they could have made one more move for depth and maybe that'll still trickle in. They did add Justin Turner for some infield, I guess depth as well. So kind of replacing tight golf fans often seems like the hardest thing to buy at the deadline. We've seen some bigger deals for guys like Manny Machado and stuff like that in the past. And they've found ways to do it, I think without harming their future that much. So yeah, I like what they did. A little small shout out for the Yankees who weren't that super active. But I think the jazz chism trade was really good. Yeah. You know, I mean, that team sorely needed a little bit of foot speed. They're second to last in stolen bases. They need a guy who can play on the infield right now. It's second and third is a little bit of a problem for them in both those places. I think jazz can play there. We haven't seen jazz play third base, but this is a former shortstop who played second base. All right. I think he can do third. I think he has the arm for it. So doing that and then adding Mark Lider Jr. to the bullpen who's not just a rental, I thought they did all right. Yeah, I'd say they're in the sea missing a starter. It seems like they missed out on all the starters though, right? It's a tough grader. Well, they were supposedly shopping Cortez. So they they feel like the year that they traded Jaden Jordan Montgomery away. They feel like they have their playoff rotation set. It is, you know, Cole and heel. And I mean, they've got they've got what they want and Cortez on the outside. I think the key there. I think only looking for top end, they were looking for crochet if they can get crochet, but they don't they weren't. They weren't today with total body soreness. That was not right. Yeah, he just stomach bug. There's nothing he was just saying. They weren't going to trade for Trevor Rodgers, you know, they weren't going to they weren't going to trade for they had, you know, that's another thing that I think Yankee Stadium is really hard to pitch in. So they can't just trade for somebody that might be okay. They kind of have a little bit of a higher bar when they're acquiring pitchers. I thought they might get one more option to help at first base, but maybe by having jazz moving all over the place, you know, they just play a little more DJ LeMayhew there. Just do a strict platoon with Ben Rice getting the starts against righties. LeMayhew playing mostly against lefties, but that seemed like an opportunity to possibly get another bench piece. Not like there's a lot of impact guys out there, but something could have helped them in that regard. There were a lot of relievers on the move. Lucas Airsig is kind of an underrated player for a lot of people. I mean, he's a converted position player to start pitching a few years ago in the Brewer system before ending up in Oakland debuting there. And he took a pretty big step forward already this year. And I was looking at the pitching plus model by by model. He's got three above average pitches. He throws four different pitches. He's got above average location numbers too. And given that he hasn't been pitching for that long, there's not only the possibility this keeps getting better. There's a chance there might be a starter in their long term, even though he's been used as a short reliever up to this point. Given the whole story of, you know, drinking his way out of Cal and ending up at Menlo College with Jason O'Chart, who's the director of hitting for Boston Red Sox, and then, you know, being drafted in the third round as a third baseman, hitting 35 tanks in the minor leagues with the Brewers and then stalling out and tending to a reliever like, I don't know, I feel like his arm is fresh. And he's from my conversations with him, he's just now kind of getting to understand the craft of pitching. Like, I was talking to him about some stuff that most pitchers nowadays are used to talking about like their movement on their pitches, their spin access and stuff like that. And he's like, I'm just finding out about this stuff, man. I'm just, you know, I'm just trying to get comfortable as a pitcher. So, you know, there's, there's some upside there. What I also like is Hunter Harvey, Lucas Ersek, James MacArthur. It may not feel exactly like that, those old bullpens, that, you know, the power bullpens that brought the Royals a championship, but it's closer than it's been in a long time. I mean, this is, there's definitely some better stuff in that in that Royals bullpen than there has been for in a while. And I, I laud them putting it together in a way, also, that won't just disappear at the end of the year. No, all three of those guys are there next year. That's why I think we should give them a shout out as well. They add to Young, as I said, for another bench bad. I mean, I think the Royals had, for a team that was so active in the winter, and has kind of played fringy, right? Where we're like, well, are they in it? Are they going to, we kind of wondered on the pot, are they going to do anything like more? Are they going to push forward? I talked to someone in Kansas City that was like, we believe we can do it. We believe with the way Bobby, what junior is playing, you know, we believe in the, in the way the division is going that we still have a chance. And I think they made some really smart moves that, like you said, you know, don't sacrifice the future. And that's where Kansas City needs to play. They need to thread that needle and play in that playground to get better today, but also not sacrifice tomorrow. I would give Kansas City like a bee. I think they had a really solid off season. I think going out and getting Hunter Harvey, Harvey early was big. You know, they're a team that is trying to go for you know, they avoided the kind of pressure cooker that was today, you know, when all of a sudden, oh, we'll look what they got for Tanner Scott. We want more, you know, it's like, you know, let's just get Hunter Harvey three or four days before and, you know, not worry about like having to compete with everybody. I thought that was a pretty sneaky good move. The projections don't like Michael Renzen. They never have, but for the last, you know, three years, he's had like a four zero ERA basically. He has a big old wide arsenal. I know pitchers pitching coaches love getting a wide arsenal guys. They're like, they always think, oh, I can do this with that or this with that. And so I think he's a, he's a great way to make a strength that there's better. They have, you know, they have the third best rotation by Fangrass War this year. Really? Well, it's been so good. And I think not enough people have talked about the year that he's had heading on himself to be a starter. Yeah, I like Kansas City. It's very easy to get lost today. I like what they did overall the deadline for sure. There's, there's a funny thing for me happening. I'm local. So San Francisco is right here. But I'm having like a sort of head versus heart moment with the, with the giants trade deadline. I hate it with my heart. And I understand it with my head. There's a just some late breaking news that they, the giants got Mark Kanna. This is kind of the far hon thing that he does. Sometimes he's done this before. It's a little bit like the Jerry de Poto thing where he trades away one piece and he gets it back another piece that's almost as good. Remember, what was it? He traded away Davenski and everyone's mad. No, he traded away Kendall Gravman and everyone's mad about that. But in the next trade, like a day later, he got a reliever, but as a rental reliever, and he was just trying to like, you know, as you've been saying, thread the needle, he's just trying to, and I understand that taking the money, the Jorge Solaire money off the table for next year gives him more flexibility. I understand that. And he, there's obviously a team that needs to, to buy more to get better. And that Jorge Solaire at DH did clog them up a little bit. And now with DH open, they can, they can do more things. It gives them a chance to bring Marco Luciano up, whose glove has not really fit anywhere. And now they can just play him sometimes at DH, sometimes wherever, and see what he can do at the major level. But at the same time, I hate it. It's just, I hate it. It seems like, like a too smart, like you're just trying too hard. That's what it feels like. I don't, in it. And what we were saying earlier about picking a lane, it's not picking a lane. It is not picking a lane at all. And so some part of me just hates it. And I love Marcan. Come on down, Marcan. I wonder what you guys think about the Pirates deadline, because to me, that's kind of one of those like, what? It's a tepid buy. Yeah, like what? What? It's probably just a grade below whatever the Royals grade is for me, because I think Brian Taylor Cruz is underrated. They needed it. They need a bat. They got a bat. And he's there for more than this year. He's not a rental. So he helps them be on this season. They got a glove first infielder. Isaiah Kynor-Folefa, he can play all over. They've had problems at second base. So if they're not going to get production with the bat at second base, at least they'll have a great defender there. That'll help run prevention. So I'm OK with that sold and bought at the same time, selling Martin Perez and buying Kynor-Folefa and Brian Della Cruz. Yeah. And some, and some, and Josh Walker, like they did some really small stuff, too. But they kept a rolled as Chapman, which is a big deal. Yeah. So they're hanging around. I think that deadline was OK. It was, I think it was appropriate for where they're at right now, trying to get a little bit better. Not a bad idea. They also had the biggest challenge trade, I think. Quinn Priestor for Nick York. Yeah, I like that one. That was, I think that's, if it's not my favorite trade in the deadline, it's like in the top three for me. It's just, yeah, it's, it's really, a really interesting trade. I also, you know, one of my favorite trades of the deadline, that's just a small little trade that I just really love is the Austin Hayes for Sir Anthony Dominguez and Christian Pachea deal. Yep. Yeah. Because they realized they needed a center fielder against lefties because they've been sitting mullens against lefties and that Calzer's not really a great center fielder. So they go and get Christian Pachea, who is a great defensive center fielder, but shouldn't play unless it's against a lefty, really, with the, because the bat's not good. So that was a better fit than the, than Austin Hayes, who they don't really want to play in, in center. Yeah. You know, so Anthony Dominguez has the good stuff, but had been wild this year, you know, that's the price for maybe getting a full-time starter and left field, like Austin Hayes may end up the full-time starter and left field for, for the Phillies. Yeah. A little, a little bit of like shifting things around to hope to get a better fit out of a couple players. Are we a little surprised the Angels didn't do more? The Carlos Estebes and the weeks Garcia trades, you could kind of see those coming from a mile away. Maybe something else will come in here in the next little while, but Louise spread, he wouldn't help somebody else. Yeah, Matt Moore, Matt Moore really surprises you. Both of those guys still there. Surprise. Yeah. Surprise. The White Sox didn't burn it down a little bit more. You guys surprised that the lack of top 100 prospects, I think up until that's gone. There weren't any really top 100 prospects traded up until, let's see, maybe for Flaherty here now. Yeah. Robbie, well, the Robbie Snelling. Snelling might have been shaking. He dropped out of a lot of top 100s, like the mid-season updates, but he was there going into the season. Probably not many. I mean, remember the sale trade, Juan Mancada? Yes, it was the only trade in the last 30 years where they traded a number one overall prospect. There you go. Then someone right about that, which was my fault. That's done. Which also, spoiler alert, Jackson Holiday wasn't traded. People think the Orioles are going to do these crazy things and they just are in like tepid buy stuff. But anyway. Benjamin's dropping a C minus on the Brewers. I mean, again, I look at the whole window like last couple of weeks, they added Savali a little early. So you take Aaron Savali, you get Frankie Montas and kind of a strange deal with the Reds. Joey Weemer was just an extra out outfielder for the Brewers. Wasn't going to get on the Big League roster anytime soon. Great defender. Garrett Mitchell got healthy, so they were kind of, they would started to have a lot of outfielders. Yeah, had plenty of depth. It was interesting to me that Jake Junis went back the other way. I think that goes back to something we talked about on Monday's show, probably financials, just balancing it out, right? Not adding too much payroll. Montas, I think, gives you more length than Junis. Junis is strikeout rates down this year. You know, it's really one great pitch. You can get through the lineup one time and long relief. You can throw an opener from a guy like that. Montas, maybe you can get away with using them for five innings at a time. So maybe that that's the difference between the two and getting the bullpen to some extent. Yeah, and getting Montas kept Devin Williams. There were a lot of people saying one and a half years left. That's when they traded Josh Hader. I know David Stern's is gone. A lot of those front-offs people are still there. I think they learned from that. And Trevor McGill just wanted to be out of backlash, right? Oh, yeah. That was an unpopular move in the clubhouse at the time. So, yeah, maybe a C minus, because the reason, if you're going to be hard on the brewers, I think the thing they needed with the Yellich injury, even though he's not having surgery, they needed one more bat. One more impact bat, because if Yellich comes back, has a setback and then ends up being done for the season, or if he doesn't make it back, I think you're one impact batter, at least one above average bat light. There's a lot of ways they can get there. We talked about Jackson Churiel being better, a great second half from Reese Hoskins as possible. So there's a few guys that could be better, but maybe it's calling up Tyler Black or or something along those lines where they end up trying to find that extra player. I thought they would trade for a veteran to fill that spot. Wow. The Orioles get... The Orioles get Gregory Soto. Saw that, yeah. Why are the Phillies trading away relievers Soto's decent, isn't he? I'm not looking at his ERM. We just discussed the pirates who just sent Martin Perez to the Padres. And the Orioles get Austin Slater. There's all these weird deals. The Orioles get the weirdest deadline. They're the seller buyers. They're the seller buyer, weird stuff going on. But what do you guys got on the Padres? Because this was a big swing, and it's either going to be, go down as like a terrific move, because now they basically have a super bullpen. Super terrible. The bullpen's good. Right. We knew they needed a starter. They had Perez. That's kind of a not really a deal that moves the needle. But when you look at this bullpen, guys, with Tanner Scott, who was the best closer available, you add him to what Robert Suarez, right? You look at really the whole back half of this. It's Adam, Jeremy Estrada, Adrian Morehan. I mean, this is a super pen. Pretty much. They have the sixth best WRC plus in baseball so far this year, which surprised me a little bit, although I know it's been pretty good. And what's kind of cool about that, I think, is they haven't had tatisse for a while. And Manny hasn't been Manny all year. So, there's still a little bit more this team can do offensively. So I guess they thought, we're just going to wait for tatisse to come back and for Manny to continue getting better. And we don't have to, we don't have to push the needle too far defensively. Defensively, there's a little bit of an issue here. At least I'm seeing this by DRS. Let me see here by DRS, the San Diego Padres are 24th by UCR. They are 19th by ounce above average. They are 19th. So this is a bad team defensively. Does that make sense? When you consider some of the health problems they've dealt with, it makes sense, right? I mean, tatisse missing time, Machado missing time, Bogart's missing time. Bogart's second should at least be solid, right? So that's probably what it is, that combination of injuries, dragging them down a little bit. 10th best overall pitching staff, when it comes to starting pitching, they've been ninth. And they're going to change their 12th best relief core into something better than that. I mean, if you've got everything, let's just just give them everything but defense, you know, in the top five, six, seven, like not necessarily top five, but top 10, then you're a contender, right? It's just about getting things to land the right way in the post-season. I mean, they asked me on the radio, if I thought, you know, if this is a contender and I do, it's a contender. Yeah. It's legit. And if they get everybody healthy all at once, that's going to make them a really dangerous team. And Moss Grove still coming back, and Cease looks like an ace. I mean, it's just one of those things where the bad parts seem to be just like in the river mirror, just seem to be like, you're just like, oh, now they really only have Ethan Solis left in their farm, right? These core guys are only getting older though, you kind of have to just go in now. What's going to happen when they have 300 million dollar contracts and they're not a good team? If they win a World Series, no one will care. Yeah, they win a World Series, it won't matter. And if they don't, AJ Preller is going to be long gone when we're asking those questions too. So, you know, either way, yeah, the only move in my book, I think, if you're AJ Preller, really, because they were playing really well heading into the deadline too. They had a season high seven game winning streak that was broken on Sunday. They obviously, Cease's no hitter was a big deal. So yeah, and then as somebody points it out, they still aren't that far behind the Dodgers. Like, there is still a chance that they make a real run there, but they're solidly in a wild card spot right now. They got better this deadline. I think this is what you have to do when you have a aging core and a guy like DeTiss who just is going to be tough to stay on the field. It feels like over his whole career, you kind of, you know, Manny's not getting younger, Bogart doesn't get younger, Musgrove has had injury problems. You kind of have to do this. And what we're not mentioning either is you Darvish. Like is he out for the season? Is he coming back? He's been on leave for like a personal reason. You know, if he does come back, that's obviously a boost for them, but I don't know if they're counting on that. They're very much a team that if they get into the playoffs, right, they're sneaky. They get into the playoffs and DeTiss is healthy. And Musgrove is healthy. And Manny's Manny's Manny. Yeah. Like they're a dangerous team. So I kind of like be going on there. Dude, that NL wildcard is going to be intense. Wild. Braves, Mets, Pirates, Cardinals, Padres, DBACs. Those are six good teams. They're all above 500. They're all well above 500. You know, they're not just one game above 500. The Pirates of Cardinals are two. But you know, that's six teams. And I haven't even mentioned the Giants who, you know, tried to, you know, stay competitive while selling. And, um, you know, the, the, the Cubs, which I, I, what do the Cubs get? That was, what was that? Are you bringing them up because it's a puzzling deadline? I mean, they, they traded for USOC, so we talked about the way we're leaving out of a bullpen that's bad. Yeah. They traded for a reliever that had more stuff, maybe. Right. So trading away, Mark Lider Jr. is weird. While trading for Nate Pearson is just a weird combination. And kept tie on. And kept tie on. Yeah. I think that, I mean, I think the thing is we're going to be good next year. We're just going to re-rack and be good next year. Like it's still be good this year. It's still possible. Yeah. I'm more convinced the blue days are going to be good next year than the Cubs, because they're, I'm a little confounded by the whole thing. So I saw something really interesting. It's changed a lot over the years. So JJ Cooper, in one of the writeups I saw at Baseball America today, looked back to the deadlines going all the way to 2015 and found 511 prospects traded during the month of the trade deadline since 2015. So I love JJ Cooper. Roughly 40% of those 511 traded prospects haven't reached the majors. Another 41% have produced less than one career F4. So, you know, a lot of players change hands. So that's, that was, that's 80% basically didn't do anything. Either haven't reached the majors yet or haven't made a major impact yet. Some of them will, but that gives you a general idea, right? Like that's a pretty big window. There's a bit of a logarithmic thing too, with the way that like top 10 prospects have a much, much better bus rate and better outcomes than even 10 through 20 and they're much better than like 20 through 30. And what we see traded the deadline is 70 plus in terms of ranking, you know. So that's why you get, I mean, that's, that's what I would call an 80% bus rate. Yeah, yeah, or at least an 80% disappointment rate. I don't know if that's any different or any better. It's still a weird, teams are still hoarding prospects. I guess they're thinking like quantity over quality. They're just like, we want to keep all these, these, in just in case one of them turns out. I wonder if there's a way, and this is the, the thing on the horizon a few years down the road, if, if, if club control changes and gets shortened up at some point, or if the cost of club control players goes up, arbitration starts earlier, minimum salaries go up considerably at some point, like how much of a change do you need in how club control and cost control works before teams are going to cling less to young players? Because that's a huge part of it. It's so, we even think about this too. If this guy is good, I get him for six years. Right. It's, it's very hard to give up on that knowing that compared to what you're getting on a three years, you're like, but it's like jig bloss. If bloss is a number four starter, we know number four starters cost like $10 million a year on the free agent market. So like, that's a pretty big deal for the J's to get that guy now for someone that they couldn't keep any way. Even if he's not that good. That was the worst deal of the deadline, I think. What do you guys think? The worst deal as far as you think the Astros overpaid the most. I like Kuchy better than a lot of people, and I don't, I don't think low refitos are regular. So you're getting how many starts out of Kuchy though, as case. 12, but if they win the World Series, it doesn't matter. He, I do think he is a playoff starter, which is a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of guys that got moved in the last couple of weeks aren't necessarily guys you want taking the ball in prices. High that window when it shuts on the Astros is going to slam shot. Yeah, they kept it up and longer than we'd have a way to seem like they have many prospects. I can't, I can't name an Astros prospect that I'm excited about it off the top of my head. Here's the other question for both of you. Like looking at Atlanta's deadline, they bring back Solaire. We know Max freeds down with the neuritis right now in his arm. Renola Lopez had an MRI that came back negative. So his forearm issue that caused him to leave early over the weekend doesn't have a forearm. Does it has a forearm? It's just not torn up. But you look at the way they handled this, they got out in front by acquiring Chris Sale during the off season. Like think about the difference in price trading for Chris Sale, giving a Von Grissom and a one for one in the winter versus going out and getting a starter now. And again, at hindsight, 2020, Von Grissom has had a lost season marred by injuries and illness. And we can't fully grade that trade for a couple of years. But just in terms of relative cost to what other starters were going for, the timing is so much better. It's like, it's like being stuck at the amusement park and having to eat lunch there and just paying ridiculous prices for bad food. That's what the trade deadline becomes if you need started pitching. Is Nick York that different than Von Grissom and Nick York brought back Quinn Priestor, not Chris Sale, right? Well, yeah. Well, look at Gordon Mearns. What would he have gotten at the deadline? Right? Same thing. Yeah. You're right. It does seem like the better deals can be added. If you can convince somebody in the off season, that's harder though in the off season because people all think they're going to be good. That is the main problem. Yeah. Elijah the Orioles was odd. Derek says in the lecture, he's right. This really was about the White Sox just wanting somebody to pick up the salary. You know, obviously, I'm a little still wondering and have yet to hear any comments on what are as to why the Orioles felt like they were the people that needed to pick up the salary unless no, what we said earlier, because they just wanted to give up of not a good prospect. They'd rather give up line up help. So do they see something in Eloy? You can make a strength better. You can make a strength better, I think. You know, he's probably better than their worst hitter. Yeah, he'd want it to play every day necessarily. They could play him three or four times a week. So I guess that's the way to look at it. If you're stronger top to bottom in your lineup and you didn't give up much to do it, then not a Yeah. The Royals went out and got Lorenz and they could have just kept moving at Mally Marsh out there and still been a top three rotation like they've been, you know. Yeah. That's true. You're the question from better at the margins. Hook them. Yeah. 355. Would the Tigers have been better off with Loper Fido, Will Wagner and Jake Bloss than what they got from the Dodgers? I got to grab that. They were on the Zano and Trey Sweeney. Yeah. Shortstop Trey Sweeney. I like the Blue Jays return better. I think this, like I said, was the trade, worst trade on the Astro side and maybe the best trade. Most savvy, the deadline from the Blue Jays side because you are slotting in. Those guys are all pretty much big league ready. Wagner's been at AAA hitting well. Bloss and Loper Fido. These are guys that can come in slot in next year, your team. Well, Trey Sweeney isn't AAA. He's not having a great year, but he's 24 and just last year was 18% better than the average as a shortstop. Good strike out, Ray. Good walk, Ray. People look at Bloss and say, well, he struggled in the big leagues. Well, they played across like three or four different levels. And if you average all that out his ERA this year is like 2.4 or something. Like the guy's going to be good. He's just moved very quickly. So if you just look at his numbers, you could say, well, you know, what did they get here? Well, he was pretty highly regarded in Houston with that system. So I think it was Loper Fido had a terrific spring and really kind of showed himself as a non roster MVP that ended up making his debut. I really liked that return. I think that was maybe outside of Tanner Scott, which got a haul from the Padres. But Tanner Scott had, I think, had a much higher ceiling as the best clothes were available on the market. So I just think that that was in my mind probably the best trade of the deadline. I think the Marlon if Sweeney plays on the dirt, it could change the caucus a little bit. Yeah. Someone wrote in that Norby and Stowers are better than Sweeney and also, and they might be right. I mean, I think people are selling short. That's where the math gets weird for me. Yeah. I'm going to start comparing those deals. I'm like, I think I might rather have Norby and Stowers maybe. I mean, Norby's going to play on the dirt, I think, you know, and I think, you know, I'm not sure Sweeney is. Even his fan grass profile says, might be utility guy, you know. The other guy's like an 18, Liriana's like an 18 year old, 19 year old catcher with a bat arm. I don't know. Yeah. It's weird. All this is weird. I did. But I think generally, the one thing that maybe take away is that Cooper analysis is just like, you know, like to say someone got fleeced or they gave up too much or like the likelihood is that most of these guys they got traded today didn't aren't going to move the needle for your organization in the future. No. And if you know Perfido, like I said, strikes out too much, may not have a defensive home. Sweeney may not have enough power to be an everyday shortstop. Yeah, that's true. Norby, I might not have the arm. All these things sort of, you know, tend to go in the wrong direction because their own team evaluated them and said, you know, we can give that guy up. Yeah. But every once in a while, you get Lane Thomas for John Lester and you turn on. Two months of John Lester. Yeah. I forgot all about John Lester with the Cardinals for like a dozen starts three years ago. Was that the time where you couldn't throw to first? That was such a low trade that I like assumed his cash considerations and then they get Lane Thomas. Mike Rizzo had another good deadline, I think, overall, he's showing us that he's like another Dembrowski. That's that's the level he's at. He's there. He can wheel and deal and turn things around and he's showing he's got more than one note, I think, in these last couple of deadlines as well. So yeah, Prether seems to be kind of one note. It's like I make prospects and I sell them. All gas, no brakes at a crazy clip though. Yeah, I mean, if you scout and find players, other teams like, then that's something you should lean into, lean into the depth. Just keep going. But a lot of ground covered today and I'm sure we'll have more on the athletic here in the days ahead, including some more detail analysis of the prospects on the move. It's tough to get a good read on some of those guys because they're very like lower level players, like guys in the Dominican summer thing, for example, so we lean on Keith Law and Melissa Locker and our great staff. At the athletic athletic dot com slash rates and barrels gets you a subscription. Two dollars a month gets you in the door. Special shout out to the live high people who stayed the entire time despite some audio issues. Thank you for your patience. You can find Brit on Twitter @brit_joroli find Eno @ Enocerus find me at direct and write for that's gonna do it for this episode of rates and barrels. We are back with you on Thursday. Thanks for listening.
