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Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all got back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better. With NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get the most live NFL games all in one place every game, every Sunday, and you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical and also YouTube TV is great. I got it this year. It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com/bs device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV and a false Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Looked to raising their old Wednesday, July 3rd live on YouTube, it's Derek and Mike for Trevor May and the Enosayers. On this episode, we dig into a trade that went down. Aaron Savali, headed to the Brewers will talk about the impact of that move, the possible opportunity for Shane Bos now in the raised rotation as a result of Savali's departure. We have a tweak to the home run derby. We'll talk about that, but more importantly, we are going to introduce an idea, the equivalent of a home run derby for pitchers. Because pitchers have been left out of the fun for too long, so we have some ideas we've been cooking up. We'll share those today. We're also going to take a look at some trouble situations for pitchers, more splits based on timing of rest. Trevor's been digging deep, trying to find a bunch of new stuff for us. We're going to dig into that and take a few questions along the way. Shout out to the Live High for joining us here on this Wednesday ahead of a long holiday weekend. How's it going for you today? Good. It's crazy. My wife got called in for jury duty. The house is in disarray. How are you doing, Trevor? I'm great. Not a jury duty. I just had to take a U-hall back today, but I wasn't that great. Oh, is this one piece, I hope? Yeah, of course. It was easy. I've never done it before, so evidently getting a U-hall is really easy. I was at a gas station, so. They're everywhere. Let's get started with trade. Aaron Savali is a brewer now, and I thought maybe I saw some news on Tuesday that Johnny Quato had opted out of a minor league contract with the Rangers and given the Brewers ongoing need for just anyone to fill spots in that rotation. I thought maybe Johnny Quato would end up in Milwaukee, but Aaron Savali in a somewhat minor trade. Gregory Berrios, a minor league infielder, goes back to the race the other way. Savali has not had the step forward in Tampa Bay or the tweaks that usually make a pitcher more effective kind of kick in during his time there. He's got a career-high ERA in Whips so far, which is a little bit surprising. Even though the strikeout and walk rates look pretty typical, home run rates running high, but he's been a guy struggled with the long ball in the past and the lefties are crushing him. 286, 353, 500 against Aaron Savali so far this year. So as we start to think about what might be different as he moves to a third big league organization, what kinds of tweaks do you think the Brewers could have in mind for Aaron Savali? I mean, one thing that Savali used to do with the Guardians was he kind of teased out the slider. I don't know what to call the slider. He's like every kind of breaking ball, but the the race kind of made him throw more of the sweeper and the slider at first when he got there and then this year kind of lost the slider. I don't know which one I'm talking about. He has a sweeper slider, a curveball and a cutter. Anyway, tweaking his breaking ball mix is the kind of the what has been ongoing for him because he does not have good fast balls and he has to start with a cutter as his sort of bread and butter and starting with the cutter as his bread and butter means that I think he can fall into this thing where he's just the spin is hard to differentiate and everything just sort of becomes this big one slider thing. And I think the Guardians were very intentional about no, don't throw this one breaking ball because then you just it turns into a big kind of mush, you know, and so they might go back to what the Guardians did. They might actually reduce the usage of one of his breaking balls. I think maybe they won't touch him much. I think one thing that actually ends up happening with these trades is people assume that the pitcher is going to change with the new organization and the new organization when the pitcher joins them for the most part is like, hey, you be you. We got you because we like you, you know, and maybe two or three starts in. They'll be like, yeah, well, also maybe you could try this. They don't want to be like, hey, welcome to the Brewers. We want you to, you know, turf this pitch you love and throw this pitch you hate and welcome to Milwaukee. Well, the Rays did not acquire Aaron Savalle from a paste eating organization in terms of pitching development. Right. So they had a decent foundation already. So the number of tweaks they could make would be limited. Just looking at the splits before the show, Trevor, I was kind of kicking this around, could they just ditch the forseamer completely because he has a cutter and a sinker. I mean, I know multiple fastballs have a lot of value, but at a certain point, if you're throwing something 10% of the time and it's getting crushed when you throw it, do you just nix it and say that the cutter and sinker are good enough given all the other secondaries that Savalle can lean on? Possibly. It's weird. It's like the fastball forcing fastball. Yeah, it's not been great. And it's was been as weak as pitch and it's getting hit. It's getting hit kind of like it's always been hit. His command of it's just been a lot worse. Like he's missing, like, I think he's wasting a lot more forcing fastball. So he's not getting the value out of the forseam. It's always been a setup pitch for him anyways. He's also weird. One of those weird guys who's been throwing two seam sinkers up, like for less the whole time he's been up, which is kind of a new thing for a lot of starting pitchers these days, especially righties. Like it's been that combination of setting things up with this forseam. Here's the straight one that you might be able to get to up and then it's cutters and sinkers off of it and just moving them around. So I think what he's lost is a lot of that forseam kind of that setup ability because it's a ball so much and he's got a big cluster way high way high to where and he's a short he's a short extension guy too, then he's got a high arm slot. So he stays up tall. He doesn't drop down. So he doesn't get that like low approach angle vertical to give you even for guys to get the chase up there, a lot of them have that. And if you're a guy who stays high and it doesn't get the top of zone stays high, guys are much less likely to chase it. So once that gets kind of written off, then the other pitches are a little bit easier to get to his cutters. Not even though the commands pretty good on both sides edges of the plate, it's not performing as well as it has in the past. And I think this has something to do with relying heavily on the sweeper and going really, really side to side with it. That's a such a race thing. Everyone does that now there. That was probably a bad move, at least just like starting to rely on that pitch because it messed up the way his pitches worked together. I think that's really what's happened because there's nothing hugely glaring other than that, like in terms of movement, in terms of command, you know, he's a little bit more erratic this year, but not like enough to have an era like this. So I think the reliance on the sweeper has probably diminished the effectiveness of his other mix. And it didn't fit as well into like the profile as maybe they anticipated. So maybe he, you know, maybe he backs off that a little bit. Yeah, that's what I was trying to get at is like, he's such a spin guy that, you know, it's you can kind of you can get into a big mush, you know, with him, you know, where I feel like he needs to be able to like I was talking to Seth Lugo. And he said that his he was just coming off a bullpen. And I said, you're throwing like eight different breaking balls now. You know, how do you keep them separate? And I said, he said, I just spent an hour, you know, in a bullpen, and all we did was trying to keep my breaking ball separate. You know, that was the entire work of the bullpen. And so Savali seems to strike me as that kind of player where if he is throwing a pitch that's just turning everything to mush or, you know, he's overlying or he has this one pitch that's super sideways and everything else is like more vertical or two-plane, then maybe people can just pick it out. I do see in the splits that the sinker has a 500 slugging by lefties. The cutter has a 530 slugging by lefties and the four-seamer has an 1100 slugging by lefties. So right now he does not have a great fastball that works against lefties. And that's been, I think, the real downfall this year. And I don't know that there's a way out other than the nice thing for him is he may face teams that haven't seen a lot of him. There aren't a ton of pitchers like Aaron Savali. Yeah, getting out of the A.L. East probably doesn't hurt either. Kyle in the Live High wants to know is the high release a bigger reason why that sweeper doesn't fit well into Savali's arsenal. Like I talked to Sears about that. Sears said, you know, his is within six inches. What you will find is the release point will be different. When you're throwing a sweeper from a high slot, it'll be different. You're released point would be different than the other pitches. And Sears said, you know, mine's within six inches. So I think that's doable. Bryce Millers was like 10 inches and it wasn't doable. So, you know, the question is, you know, how different are his release points? Fair question to ask. I'd like to know what's going on in New Jersey. Dan G from the Live Hive saying, I had to teach a lady from New Jersey how to pump gas. It's illegal to pump your own there still in 2024. You can't pump your own gas in the state of New Jersey and or Oregon. What about pumping gas is not intuitive. If you've never done it in your life, how would you look? Where would you make a mistake? Describe what goes wrong to me in the picking of the gas, like choosing which one? Yeah, like, you know, like, you know, the biggest one is like putting diesel. Yeah, I mean, that would be the biggest mistake that actually would. But it is like you are big and green. Like, yeah, this one's different. Yeah, I guess. Okay, choosing the wrong fuel. This happened to my dad before where the pump, like when he pulled it out of the thing, it wouldn't like the handle wouldn't. It was off and it was still spraying. And he like, oh, and so like you have to like panic it. You don't try to put it back in the thing. You're like, what do I do right now? So you have to like go put it somewhere where it's going to drain. And then you have to run and get in the handle. Like shut off the pump. So like when it's intended, there's like an emergency shut off there and stuff so they can do that. So that's a lot what it is. Like you basically put it into the trash can and go run and get put in the trash can. Yeah, exactly. Got to watch out for that. A couple of things here with this trade. The interesting thing here is that Kyle Mazzardo was the player the Rays gave up at the deadline last year to get Saveli. So in terms of like quality of talent, they're giving up a lot overall. The net loss right now. I mean Gregory Barrios might be a nice player someday, but he's not a top 40 top 50 prospect like Mazzardo was at the time of that trade. So pretty interesting there. Now, you know, Saveli was useful to them. They got some use out of them. And I also think that like there's that sunk cost idea, which is just, hey, okay, that maybe wasn't our best trade. Let's keep going. Right, you just have to deal with it. Like it you try to get something you had pitching for a first half when you had a lot of guys hurt and you got through the first half. Maybe it would have been worse if you didn't have Saveli there that next option up may have been more of a revolving door than it was. So it happens. It is interesting that with a year left, they didn't decide, Oh, what if he could help us in the bullpen when and just bring up chain boss anyway? You know, he is he still represents innings. It's interesting that they valued Barrios who does not have any power really and looks right now, like a little bit of a middle infielder without power. It's kind of, you know, that could be very easily kind of a utility player, but they valued that over holding onto him and trying to figure him out. You know, Saveli even has options. They maybe wanted Barrios. I don't understand. I don't know. Maybe they thought this wouldn't translate well to the bullpen. You know, and so he's only value is us to his starter. We have Shane Boz ready to come in here and once and Shane Boz would give him a couple of weeks. He has options. And then, you know, if he's struggling or if there's another injury, we have Jeffrey Springs and Drew Rasmussen coming back at some point in the next couple of months. So I think maybe they saw a crowd coming. That's one thing that Tampa does a lot is manage the roster in months, you know, years, you know, the 40 man, like it's all sort of, all sort of like they try to think ahead. The Guardians will get caught sometimes with too many players and release a bunch of players. The Rays like never release players. The Rays never lose players in the Rule 5 draft. They always like know what they're doing in terms of like managing the roster down the road. Yeah. And I think when you think about Jeffrey Springs, who's much closer even than Rasmussen right now, I think he went three innings last Friday at Triple A Durham. Those are 60 day IL guys. You have to make room on the 40 man. You'd rather make that room choosing someone you want with a few choices as opposed to having to DFA someone and losing someone else that you might value more in the long run. So that's probably part of the calculus as well. Question for Trevor about Shane Bos. Like we people were underwhelmed by the start of his rehab work this year. Just the results weren't quite there. The stuff models weren't all over him the way they were before he got hurt and things have been trending in the right direction over time. And for me, it's not really surprising at all. Like guys are just not the same initially coming off of injury. You can't expect things to just come all the way back that first turn first turn out. So what would you be looking for with Bos that would make you feel confident that he has got all the way back or can still get all the way back from a stuff perspective. First of all, it comes down to if he feels good and there's no, he's not worried. He's not like protecting against anything or there's nothing in the brain going on there or nagging, you know, slow recovery, you know, needing extra day stuff like that. That would be the first thing I look at if he's just like, yeah, it's, you know, it's yeah, I'm 90, whatever he's throwing and I know it's a little lower. That's all normal and everyone comes back in different ways. And a lot of people get their stuff from competition and from where they're at as well. So like I remember when I came back as a starter, I just couldn't muster up, you know, high higher velos than like 93 because it I just where I was, it was just felt like I was still rehabbing. And it was I wasn't like, it'd been so long since I've been in the big league game that that was a played a factor. And I pitched with that adrenaline and I wasn't getting it until I got to the big leagues. And that's when the vlog started to come back. So there's a little bit of that. He might be an adrenaline guy, he does throw really hard. I get that impression from when I watched him pitch. So those type of things is what I'm looking at. Just as long as he's feeling good, it will it like it just takes a little bit of time. And it takes a little a few times under really high level competition in order to accurately see how you're going to respond. But everyone's different. You know, who knows how much like he was worried about his mechanics, how much did he work on his mechanics to rehab? And is how robotic is he I was I remember being super robotic and I had to learn how to use my lower body again. And so sometimes you're the adjustments you have to make it a little bit bigger than you even remember doing because some of the things weren't as natural as they were six months, 16 months ago. And you have to like get on it again. So that might be the case for him. You said about about robotic is huge. I was talking to Cole Reagan's about and his and his trainer Tyler Zombro at Tread about what happened when he had the two Tommy Johns in a row. And he was basically rehabbing for like two, two and a half years. And he said that your body makes sort of accommodations for flat ground throwing, for rehab throwing, where everyone is like, let's just keep it free and easy. Let's and nobody's like, let's throw the crap out of the ball today, you know, and you don't really get that adrenaline. So you kind of, the way Zombro put it is you get pushy, like you kind of push the ball as opposed to kind of really whipping it and like putting all your power into it. Because you're maybe afraid of the ligament and like, especially if you just said to Tommy John's like, Oh man, this thing's going to go again. You get these like weird flat ground adjustments that you have to you kind of get rid of when you get back on the mound and get back to being intentional. One thing that was interesting for me is that the general adage that I've gotten from research with Tommy John is just that the stuff comes back first and the command comes back comes back second is the sort of general rule. And so I was really interested to see Boz's vertical movement kind of oscillate from start to start in the minors. And I think now he's put together a couple starts in the minors where he's had the regular IVB. But like, can you speak to any of that? Were you surprised that you had missing movement on any of your pitches when you came back? It was all with it. It was normal. Like it was still high. It was still good. Like so my velocity was always attached to like so the harder I was throwing the better those things usually were. More consistent the spin was. And so they were just like inexplit like you couldn't pull them apart. So they had to be together. And so I had to keep that that was that was my take it with a grain of salt moment. But yeah, those were things we were definitely paying attention to. And it was trending in the right direction pretty much every single time I went out there. I also had like the I was in AAA with like four other all five starters when I got option for my last option in 18. I don't know why I did that. It was technically a real option. We were all we were on the 40 man and I was making herself feel better. Okay. We were on the 40 man and I was 28 and they were all 23. So I was like, you know, if I'm going to get to the big leagues again soon sooner rather than later, I gotta I gotta move myself depends. So I also had to like move to the pen in the middle of my option and rehab. And I also went right on the IR IR IR. I'll seven days after I come off the aisle for the Tom and John because my shoulder of a shoulder inflammation. So that was frustrating as well. So I had all this other stuff going on and transitioning to figure out. But yeah, like the carry was the big thing for me. I'm like, if that's there, that's one of my best and just like same thing with like depth and break on the slider. And as soon as that started to come along, then I got more trusting and confident. And then the vella started to increase as well. The page, you're painting the picture, the research is painting makes me a little bit worried that Bos is not going to be a huge huge production producer at the major league level. Yeah, maybe it takes this half season to sort of get everything closer to back. And then he goes through a normal off season in 2025 ends up being the year that we were hoping that 2024 could be coming off of the surgery. Question from Sam, how much does a pitcher's landing spot mess up the next picture? Were there any starters you hated following because of where their landing spot happened to be? Uh, Frambers is awful. So he has a really short, he's a really short, short stride when he lands, he like goes toe first. So he like did it's like a deep shallow, like not deep, but like, like not very wide, very deep pole. But somehow that bothers him. Yeah, he's always lefty, but he would land. So I landed across, he opens up a little bit for throwing his curveball. So like his was kind of mine, but my, he's a, he's a low stench and I'm a high extension and my feet are like twice the size of his feet. So like I would go, I go heel right into his hole, like just the edge of my heel. So it felt like I was like just getting to the lip of a cliff. So if I went slightly shorter, I would straighten do it and it would mess me up. And in certain places, like once that hole's there, you can't I, you can't fix it. So yeah, I remember Frambers specifically bad, but you know, especially I was, since when I was closing last year, like, you know, the five, six pitchers through before I did, the mound is a mess by a tiny, but most of the time my stride was so long that I was beyond everyone else's holes, most of the time. And, and that, that was helpful. Like Seth Lugo never had to deal with Seth's hole or like any guys who threw before me, they always had to deal with mine though, because it gets pretty deep. The thing that comes to mind is that time that Granky was like insistent they fixed the mound and then sat down on the ground next to them while they're fixing it. That's pretty ridiculous. Classic Grinky though, makes perfect sense. You know, we love talking stats here at The Athletic. Here's one that's super simple to remember. Discover automatically doubles the cashback you've earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with cashback match. That means with Discover, you could turn $150 cashback to $300. That's right. You could put it towards some memorabilia you've had your eye on or treat yourself to a premium sports network. You earn and discover doubles, see terms at discover.com/creditcard. Let's talk about the Home Run Derby for a bit. There's a format tweak. Instead of having the seeded first round, you know, seed one versus eight, all that stuff, they're actually going to do a thing where all eight players hit top four advance, which is then seeded for the final two rounds. I think that makes a little bit more sense. Just let the top four home run hitters get through, so thumbs up on that. Seems like a pretty good tweak. The bigger thing I think is what they're doing with the pitch limits. There's a 40 pitch limit now in the first two rounds. So previously, there was no limit. You had the three minutes on the clock at your timeouts and depending on how fast your pitcher was working, you could get more swings. Now you've got a cap. If you hit that cap before time runs out, the round is over. It goes down to 27 pitches in the final. It kind of seems like a simple safeguard to also make sure we're reducing the chances of someone messing up an oblique or a shoulder from just taking a lot of hacks, not a lot of time. So ultimately, I think this is still going to be a fun event. I think ever since they made the switch to this head-to-head format, the Derby has sort of taken off from me as something that I actually really like watching. The old format, when you go back and see those, no good. But this new modern game, this new Derby, is actually really good. So the other tweaks are simple. You get three outs in the bonus round, no limit on the number of pitches. A 425 foot home run in the bonus round adds a fourth out. Don't know why it's 425, but that's the magic number. And then the longer homers in regulation, no longer add to bonus time, but your longest homer from round one is the tiebreaker to get that top four out of the first round. So thumbs up across the board on these changes for the Derby. The pitches are swings, right? So like the pitcher can be out there just you can take and it doesn't count as a pitch. Yeah, I think you could still take good because that would suck. One thing you were saying too is also like the group play is when this thing went forward. I mean the one on one is when this thing went forward and yet the new tweak is more is the kind of more of a round robin sort of group play at first. Like there's a first round where everyone's trying to beat everyone. And one thing that we did like was that one-on-one energy of, you know, when players had their camps, you know, they had like their family run out and give them the Gatorade and like they had their teammates hype in them up. And you know, there was a little bit of like back and forth trash talking and stuff like we were going to lose a little bit of that. Also, we're going to have to reset all of the all of the records. I'm not that I know what the records are. I mean it's changed so many times that like I think that's already asterisk all over the place for the Homer Derby. I don't think home run derby records are are not sacred in in the baseball. I don't know what they are. I know that like Julio Rodriguez and and and Vlad Guerrero may may have it or had it recently, but I have no idea what the number is. Forty one for Julio. Josh Hamilton with his, you know, year two, but it was a different format. So it didn't really like that was the that was the prototype. That was the big one though for a long time then the changes and then now no one cares about that one. Well, I guess the thing is no one really cares about a home run derby records like no one's like going to the Hall of Fame off their home run derby. No one's going to debate who's the best hitter of all time be like, oh, he hit 40 home runs in the home run derby one time. So it's just for fun. So that part's good. I think the the group play may lose something. One thing that I do think this will do that's important is I think what the recent format what we've seen is better rounds in the first and second rounds. So I think this is true. And again, nobody really cares about home run derby records. So I apologize. This is wrong. But the way I remember it, Julio Rodriguez's record came in the first or second round. Vlad Guerrero rook, Vlad Guerrero's record came in the first or second round. And both of those guys did not make the finals. I think the years that they broke the record. And so I think baseball was kind of like, Hey, we'd rather have a good final than you hit 40 home runs in the first round and be totally gassed after that, which is actually kind of how I remember those derbies too. Like Julio Rodriguez being like white hot and then just struggling to the finish line and just looking tired. So this is almost the format helping get out in front of the tendencies of the player and just being like, we know you're going to swing as hard as you can over and over again. We're going to limit the amount of swings you do early. I like the run Robin. I like the run Robin because now we can see a leaderboard and as guys go longer, they just have to beat that fourth place guy. So like we're going to get the best, like you have a target because the might you just run into a guy who's going to break a record and then you're screwed even though you're the second best hitter. That and that happened to Pete Alon or somebody, somebody, the guys who went up against Julio Rodriguez and Vlad Guerrero in those years weren't just not going to see them at the end. Like we want to see the best guys at the end and we want them to have a path for it, even if they run to do guys super hot, then maybe we watch the rematch too. So it's like, it's like, if they go back to back or whatever, and we're like those two of the best guys and we're going to see them at the end, that's great to know that. And then it just goes to the camps after that. We don't need all eight camps. We just need the four camps. And I like the pitch limit too. I like this comment because you only have so much to to deal with. Like you only, you, I don't know, there's parameters now that everyone does the same for everyone. It's not like, Oh, I'm really good at swinging a lot and you're not as good at resetting your swing. So now I have a huge advantage. It's like pound for pound, who hits the ball most consistently over the fence? And then we're going to, so we're going to get the four best is the best way to do it. And then it turns into that format that we like where it's head to head with the four best, not just, you know, a guy who beat another week guy. And then that's random. Yeah. So now we're going to get the best, we're going to get the best guys at the end, which is I think, yeah, it's more weighted, more weighted towards the finale. Yeah, exactly. We've had a lot of great opening rounds recently. Yeah. And then the end sucks. Like, you know, said like Vlad Jr, I mean, he had 91 homers in the 2019 home run derby. He didn't win. That was Pete Alonso's first win that year. And now the 91 41, I think came in one round. Yeah, it was this it was 40 in the second round alone, which is just absurd. So yeah, I think when you look back at the history of the Derby, Pete Alonso has the current record 195 all time home run record in the Derby. Full home runs. Nice. He's also interesting because I think he's the most oppo home run Derby winner I've ever seen. Like I there's not that many guys who were hitting center field tanks and center oppo in the home run derby. And Pete Alonso did that. Frickin Robert tried to hit every single one out to center last year and did not work well. It is not an optimal strategy. Basically, we know about the dimensions of ballparks, but hey, he tried it. So you got to give him credit for trying his own thing. So Trevor, I think we get the sense that pitchers feel left out with the home run Derby, you know, called it nightmare fuel during our production meeting, which yeah, I mean, that seems like a kind of a traumatic thing for pitchers to watch. Like, oh, these, this, this is what I'm up against all the time. These guys, this is terrible. But what would the pitcher equivalent of a home run Derby look like? What would you want to put on display as a former pitcher as the ultimate skills showcase that would be just as entertaining as watching guys hit 450 foot home runs? I think our version of athleticism is manipulating the baseball. So like, why don't we have a throwing like a throwing skills competition, kind of like one year that I didn't have like short stops field in the ball and like throwing it over and trying to hit something off like at first base or something. Maybe this is Japan. I think Japan does this. And so but the pitchers can have a version of this and I would love us to like format it or or at least the vibe and the presentation be like the world championship of darts. I think that's so great. A crowd closer to you. It's like you can do an obstacle course with targets. And then it's just guys like, and guys can do this because they do this in playing catch. It's like our version of fun. Guys would go and you play catch and throw your pitches. And when we were kids, we would like have our dad give us targets in random places and try to hit the targets and stuff. That's how you get better at pitching. So this is kind of like, how do you prove your prowess? And I think we got some some command guys in the league that would absolute like it would be like the three-point contest where suddenly, you know, like in the NBA, you go and you're like, don't contest to contest. Awesome. The guys who are most athletic are in the game. But then Brent Barry would just show up and shoot three win three-point contest, even though he was not in the All-Star game. And I think we can get guys to do that. And then they can just they don't have to. It doesn't have to be a bullpen. They could just throw nice and easy. It could be their catch play for the day and it would just be fun. And like seeing a George Kirby, like I said, I think the example, it was Kirbying and Gallin going head-to-head and just like have some representatives from each league and just like go and come up with a clever way of do a point system. You know, you can throw a breaking ball and get extra points, have a money ball, and then finish with the dunk tank of Manfred. I think we threw that out there. And yeah, with this crazy alien hand, that's an AI art. We have to say that now. That is made by AI. But yes, I want to emphasize, we do not have an image of Rob Manfred in a dunk tank. We have an AI generated image. I think Rob Manfred would look like in a dunk tank. And I think there are aliens in the background too. If you look really closely, there's some very oddly shaped little bit like people. That's nightmare fuel. All of it. I do think I'm wondering if the dress pants that have been cut down to shorts, like if that could actually become a future trend, that looks like something you could order online. He seems like having fun. That's good. He does look like he's having fun. I've seen athletic directors do that at the high school level as a fundraiser. They'll jump in the dunk tank and do like a booster club thing. I don't know if Rob Manfred can calm down enough and not take himself too seriously for an hour and do something like that. But I'd love to see a dunk tank with Rob. But you might be able to get a teammate. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Pretty funny if like team makers is up there for George Kirby. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Teammates. Yeah. Teammates in it. Oh, they would love to do that. That'd be awesome. That'd be a lot of fun. I really think they should do something like this. My concept of exactly how we're, you know, the nine pocket, right? Everyone knows the nine pocket. The nine pocket is just a strike zone thing where it's a net that pitchers throw into. And it has basically the strike zone divided into nine pockets. And you know, you would just be like, I'm going to try to throw it here, try to throw it here. And you're just trying to throw it into different pockets. So you could basically have a nine pocket up here. You don't even have to have a catcher. You have a nine pocket up there. And you can have different scores for those. But then you would have like maybe extra pockets that were just outside of the strike zone, like the slider pocket, you know, shadow zone, you know, and like, and have, so make it like a, you know, a 13 pocket or something, like high and away, high and in, low and away, low and in, and then maybe in those pockets, not even. So the pocket is already, what is it? I mean, like four inches by four inches or something. It's not, it's really small. But inside, one of those pockets is like a, is the dunk tank thing, right? So you really have to dot the slider. Yeah, like a bullseye and, but not down the middle. And it's not down the middle. Not down the middle. We don't want that. Or do you like ski ball? The middle or police matter points in the, yeah, those top corners, they reward you for being bold. We're going up there. Because if you missed that top corner, it's a zero. But if you're filling that top corner, you're dominating ski ball. You're getting that tricy. I think it would be, I think it would be fun. If you can't get fans on the field, I love this idea of like the world series of darts, you can't get fans on the field. It's just security. They just won't do it. But you could do some of what they did in the home run derby, which is what we're talking about, is get your teammates alongside you because there's no danger. Like you've been not throwing 90, you're not throwing 99, right? So you could actually have sort of teammates around you, and maybe you do have your catcher. Maybe it's a catcher based idea that's based off of this. I mean, use ABS or something. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. Use ABS to sort of award them points. But, but, you know, having their teammates around them, having that energy, you know, George Kirby, you know, throws the perfect slider, hits the thing, dunks to who the Rodriguez and all his teammates mob him, like that could really capture the energy that you're looking for, I think. Kirby throws a Moneyball knuckleball for a bunch of points. Yeah. I was trying to think, could you make it like horse, where you alternate hitting spots on a target a certain way, and then the next person has to repeat it? Oh, yeah. Maybe there's like three events. One's the pockets and then one's the horse, and then one's because of like where, yeah, and you just have like paired up guys and you, you just run it through a little tournament. I think that'd be awesome, man. I love horse. Horse a great idea. Yeah. It was, uh, there's a suggestion here to name this after Greg Maddox. I was thinking, just let Maddox be in it. Like, it'd be fun to have old pitchers come back and do this stuff. Like, why, like, why couldn't he? Yeah, get Maddox for a small sliver. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Actually, I want to see Smoltz pitch against current players, just, just because of the tone of some of his comments over the years. I think that would be that would be more fair. That'd be more fun to see that better entertainment factor. So, there's a lot of ways to do it. Come on. Part of the inspiration for this was just, and we don't have video, but Spencer Bivens struck out Choyo Tani twice and a five inning thing. And it's, you know, Spencer Bivens is like this reliever for the Giants. Has his long story. He's been forever to get to the big leagues and, you know, people were making fun of him celebrating this. And I was like, well, why can't, why can't a pitcher have some fun, man? Like, why can't a pitcher celebrate, you know, a strikeout, like a, like a pimp job on a home or like, we don't, we don't give them as many opportunities to kind of have that joy. So, you know, combining that with the homerun Derby seems like a fun idea, like some sort of pitcher, pitcher competition that allows them to, to celebrate and have fun as well. Yeah, I mean, Spencer Bivens is a 30 year old rookie. I think most people know if you get Choyo, even once, Choyo is probably going to get you if you see him again. So if you get Choyo twice, you should celebrate that. And you didn't think you were going to go five today and you're still, you're still the Vila's still there. And you stuck out three straight pitches. Definitely do a fist pump. I mean, just the fist pump. Yeah, fist pump. You should be excited, kid. Even though he's younger than. Yeah. That works, though, baseball. It's kind of funny. Trevor, you're doing some digging for some more splits, trouble situations, looking at samples of guys dealing with traffic. So I'm curious what buckets did you, did you create? What were you breaking things down as? I'm really interested in, like the super duper high, the highest leverage situations, I call it the quality of trouble situations because you're either one out away from stranding everybody on the bases or you're one, you know, single away from a crooked number or a double away from God forbid, a crooked number. And that's, you know, two, three, four runs in an inning, which is just those are what we call season killers for relievers. So if you have four of those, if you have four outings, we give up three, you're going to have a five year, but if you have three or two outings with three, and then you spread, you know, couple, so one runs here and then have a couple more zeros or one of those two of those trends and zeros, then you have a three and those two seasons looking pretty different, even though they're based on one or two outings. That is always happening, relievers. So I am like, okay, what are the what are the situations that give you those cricket numbers more often? And that was bases loaded. I included second base only because it's again, it's a single away, giving up the run versus stranding the run, just too on in general. So first and third, second and third, and first and second, I tried to avoid a lot of like first base with nobody on sound, because that changes that there's some variables that go on with play pretty quickly. Yeah, stolen base, but it is included in there because technically, I'm just like, if it could provide a three run home run, it should be in here. And then how like, what, what types of things are you doing in those situations? Now, this is going to limit the the total number of, I guess, events, but the number of pitches is pretty robust. So I have two guys here. And I used Tanner Scott, who's a great example, because he might he's probably on the block here and probably gonna go somewhere else. And then Ryan Helsley, who just got his 30th straight save. So these are really interesting. So I look at because the sample size in general, like you're not gonna look at ERA, because right, you're already set up to give up runs. So that out isn't gonna reduce an ERA very well. So you're gonna have like a 10 probably, because if you give up, if it happens to you once or twice, you're gonna have like a 10. So the interesting thing is, Helsley actually has a 386 and all these situations entire career and 81 pitches thrown in this in this situation. So that's pretty solid. Batting average against is 170. You don't give up a ton of hits. I also look at the whip. The whip's interesting to me too, because how often are you working around guys? Some guys go right after that's a differentiator between Scott and Helsley, right? Because I can imagine Helsley and Scott both have good strikeout rates, maybe good batting averages against, but I would guess they walk more guys their whips against are different. Scott walks more guys. So they walk a few more guys. So they both have one five. Tanner Scott says a 169 and and Helsley is a one five whip. Now those aren't super high, but you're more likely to pitch around a guy and not make it make a big pitch. But that allows you to not to give up the hits. The problem is you're adding another runner. So you're you're keeping yourself in that situation in which you have to keep more pitches. So if you're not good at stranding runners, that's going to kill you. If you are, then you might be okay. So then you just you're just creating more of those situations. And it was like, there's our boy at a onavino who we love to death as a person. Does he have a problem in this metric? He does this year because of all the base runners. Yes. But last year or I started in 2022, he was nails in these situations. So a lot of it comes to do is to do with your role. Sometimes those aren't your runners, right? And you're in the situation anyways. And if you're in them all the time, the chance you give up runs more is higher as well. But guys who are closing games tend to have this kind of profile and I found it. I don't have his screenshot here, but he was very similar as well. Low betting average, pretty good strikeout rate, but like a ton of walks, tons of walks because he's the guy who goes three out, you're going first, like, he'll just load the bases with you else because he's like, I'm not going to give up a homer. I give a one a year. So I'm not going to give it up, right? And that's what's so interesting to me because it's all this whole thing is like profiling guys who in a pinch or could possibly what number of leverage roles for a bullpen these guys do, right? That's kind of the overall, that's my theory. That's my thesis. That's the thing I'm looking into. And these are the specific, like these are the heaviest weighted situations in like leverage index and things like that. Like these are up there on the list. And so how can we isolate for those? And then the, then we have the days of rest, which is really interesting to me, which will, I mean, we have, we want to get into another part of this too. But same thing, these both got both of these guys zero days off back to back days. They're both, that's their worst situation. Helsey is a four, four, four, four, four, and it was zero days rest. And Scott has a four, seven, three. And those are their highest for from zero to five days of rest. Those are their highest statistically, like they give it the most hits. They walk the most guys and then the highest whips. They both have over one, four whips, both of those situations. It's interesting to think that, you know, it's Tanner Scott, like you're going to try and trade for this guy, right? And for some teams, he'll be set up. So you're kind of profiling him and being like, you know, does he, like you may actually want to kind of look through the profile and be like, is he a guy that we think will do fine if we put him in with runners off? Is this the thing we need? Yeah. Because this is, it's going to be important. It's going to be important immediately, like right when he gets on the team, you got to know whether or not he can do this effectively. And if he if he can make that adjustment quickly, some guys can see so much worse with zero days rest that he has to be an every other day guy, because it's a little bit easier to be in every other day guys are closer, right? Because you're, you're limited to only pitching when during mostly when they're in closing chances. And if they have like AJ puck, and when you're when on the days that's back to back, and they think it's better, we'll just go to puck this time, then then you can, you can avoid back to backs a little bit easier as a closer, then, then if I think you're my setup guy now, I need to put you in there with traffic on. Well, I looked at the traffic numbers, and it looks like you can deal with the traffic, but I also maybe need to put you in on Monday and Tuesday. Yeah. Now you're going to make a distinction. And you're right though, by the way, is best inning is the ninth and extra innings. So the very end of the game is his where he plays the best too. So there's something to, there might be a mindset thing, it might be a bunch of different things body wise too. So but his is the longer the rest. It goes like, here's, here's how his earrays go based on days rest. He's a four, seven, three was zero, then a four, seven, nine with one day, then a four, five, nine with two days, then a two, two, seven with three days, then a, then a two, three, eight with four days and a zero with five. So like, he just gets better the longer he gets to rest. And I, we, we've mentioned this before, I am the opposite. I was zero. I was the best by far. I was like a 209 for career back to back. And then with three days rest, I had like a four, eight. And for whatever reason, that was my threshold for he's going to get rusty if he doesn't throw. That's when I throw a bullpen. If I had three days off, I throw a bullpen after the game, because I was like, I pass this point is when I start to get stiff and rusty. If I make it is, and just full disclosure, this is a conversation I would Jeremy Haffner, he knew this stuff and he knew back to back was good. There was a year one. I wasn't throwing back to back at all. And I was like, why am I throwing back to back? Like, well, last year, he didn't do so well. And it was like, my worst year doing it. And I'm like, well, overall, though, I'm pretty, feel pretty good on these days. And we changed it. And I started to throw really well. So I'm like, I think I'm actually better than we're seeing. And we made an adjustment, or he communicated that to Buck. And then Buck was more open because we had set that standard at the beginning of the year. And I was like, hey, maybe I'm ready. Like, give me the ball. And he's like, okay. And then we did it. And things were going, and I was hurt too. There was some of that too. But it was really interesting. I was like, huh, who else? What's this look like for other guys? And it's pretty stark and crazy different. But there's there's pretty clear patterns you can see from these two kind of like buckets of stats, which I thought was if I were looking for bullpen guys, I were putting a pitching staff together and trying to like envision what the ideal version of that would look like, where I had some veteran guys with a good amount of, you know, stuff to look at. These are things I would look at. The days of rest is interesting because you'll have like, we have friend of the pod, Dr. Mike Sun with with the Cubs has like a fatigue model. And he'll yield the acute to chronic how much you've how many times you've been warmed up, how many times you've been in the game, how even your pace between pitches, your V low, he puts it all into a model and he basically says this is your fatigue level. But there is a really unique reaction to fatigue. There's a there's a unique way your body compensates for tea. Every player has a different amount of fatigue they're used to or want. You know, we talked about like different ways your mobility can affect how fatigue you want to be. And so I don't know, we have a chart here, the number of four outs. No, this is the this is the back to backs. Do you have the do you have the other one? Yeah, this one. Yeah. So the gray dots here are four out appearances out of the bullpen. The blue dots are back to backs and the orange dots are back to back to backs. And so what you see was a clear, you know, ascendance of the bullpen where since 1980 1950 1960, like the 70s, like since then the bullpen has pitched a lot more innings. And so you see a huge rise in four out say at four out appearances back to backs and back to back to backs. But recently back to back to backs are back to almost zero. There's really don't happen as much anymore. There's a real trend of going close to zero on back to back to backs. And even back to backs are starting to go down. What you do see is the four out has to come back up again. If you're if you're if you're reducing the amount of back to back to backs and the amount of back to backs, then sometimes you need a guy to go five or six, you know, because that's that's this math, you know, like you have you have innings to fill. What I did look at was the number of back to backs this year. So you have the Cardinals and the Mets and the Rays being out in front of this guard is we knew the Giants would be on the top of this because they use their bullpen a lot. It's a great bullpen. And then I went and looked at how do these teams, how do these teams in the last three years, how do they do in the second half? And there wasn't a real great pattern. And and I'm a little surprised by that because you think, oh, the teams that use the back to backs, you know, they get hurt or they have bad second halves. I think the problem is a lot of different reasons for having back to backs. You could be a good team that uses the bullpen a lot. If you're a good team, use the bullpen a lot, maybe you'll just get new relievers in second half. I mean, I'm sorry to say this in front of a reliever. But like, I mean, you know how you know how much bullpen's change over the course of a year. So if you're a good team with some depth, you'll cycle out the the relievers. You could be a bad team that's using a lot of back to backs and you could maybe even trade away like like the Marlins. If the Marlins are on the top of this list, they're using a lot of back to backs. They're using Scott a lot, you know, then they might actually get worse in the second half when they trade Scott away. Or maybe they don't use them in back to backs. And you think, Oh, they'll be really well-risked in the second half. Well, sorry, Scott's gone. The other guy's injured and the bullpen sucks. So there's just too much. If you're looking at a whole bullpen, there's too much variance in who's in it, you know, and what's going on, what players and some of what you're talking about. Some of those players are fine with the back to backs. Some aren't. So there's, I think there's a lot of feel in managing a bullpen, you know, that it's something you can't quite science all the way. I thought one thing that was interesting that Trevor brought up earlier in the week is just that you have the different body types. Like you can be hypermobile or you can be hypo mobile and Trevor has described himself as hypo mobile. That's I think why you said you probably are better on the second day of a back to back because you're more loose in those situations. But how would you know which kind of purchase like without looking at numbers by splits like this? How would you even guess? Is there a test for this? Other than like watching? Can you even see visual cues of on players that you're scouting to see who's hypermobile and who's hypo mobile? You can tell just about by movement patterns, like how guys arms patterns move, how they like just literally how they warm up, how they're stretching like guys a little doing arm circles, you can tell how mobile they are. And Brian wooze the guy. Why the arm circles are some arm circles that like I'm not that mobile. So my arm circles are just like, yeah, Robert Stock looked at me and goes, have you had a shoulder? Have you had a shoulder injury? Because I can't really, I can't really get Rob stock. Bob stock. What a guy. What did he have his arc wave on his head to electrocuting himself for games? That that guy needs an episode on him. He needs a documentary. He is one of the best guys ever. But he was actually a pretty mobile dude. And he didn't stretch. He didn't stretch like he didn't do he only electrocuted himself for games. If you guys don't know what an arc wave is just go Google the machine. It's a little stimulator that you can put anywhere on your body. And he would just progressively go through his whole body. I've seen people do it's all I did interviewing a guy where it's like it's like just going like this. He did nothing but that and he did like his face and his arms. But he didn't need to like he didn't need he just touches toes. He didn't need to do anything to touch his toes. Oh, I cannot touch my exact like I have to work into it. And I always have. And like Brian woo was the guy we use is the hyper mobile guy. So you naturally can move in athletic patterns and have a good range of motion, which is good for a picture. We're all looking for that. The problem is there is a sweet spot. So hyper mobile guys tend to tend to go the two mobile way and hypo mobile tend to be the not mobile enough range. And so we're all trying to move towards that sweet spot is repeatability a little bit a part of it like beat ability. I can see if you're like really if you're hyper mobile, it might be harder to the repeatability part might be harder because your body can your body can move all sorts of different ways. You can actually do more patterns though. So like yeah, that's good and bad. So if you're learning something new, you might have a like you can might be able to manipulate things and do things a little bit more than I could. But the chance you go past that pattern and get out of your range all the time or like if you get tired, when I get tired, I like retreat in inside of my range. They retreat outside of the range to get really loosey too loosey goozy. And so they come with their own problems. But when I pitched in a game, that was my most loose. I felt like that was my best way to get fully loose. So I had endorphins going from the next day. So if I threw a night game and then day game the next day, I had the most energy. It was almost like I never went away. And some guys, hyper mobile guys, especially they get so they're sore that next day. I'm not sore yet. I'll get sore the second day because my body's taking longer to get there is these are just things that we were seeing. I've had lots of conversations with biomechanics people. Dean Little was ahead of sports science with the Mets for a long time. He's super interested in this concept. And this was something he would talk about a lot. And he could just look at you and be like, you're hyper mobile, you're hyper mobile. And constantly be true. It's like your joints go past 180 degrees. These are usually like Taylor Rogers and Ryan Presley, for example, they were, they were, we always joked about how they could like look, make their arms look like they were broken. Both of them. Like it's like, I can't do any of these stuff. Oh God, it's awful. And my arms wouldn't go even to 180 degrees. And they're like, it's because they're hyper mobile. My long runs, I'm more, I'm more, I'm more sore the second day after than the first after. And that's just like a general, general idea. So that can give you an idea of like, why you're good back to back, why you're not so good. starters we talked about throwing, they're changing between second bullpen, second day bullpen, a third day bullpen, or even throwing the day after. I love to throw. I was like, I would prefer to always throw and just be a little bit like fatigued and sore, then get tight. It was my preference. So I would throw all the time. Not taking full days off would make me stiff. How rare are bullpens for relievers? They're pretty, pretty rare. I think hyper mobile guys are like, I need to be ready tonight. I don't want to throw a bullpen and not be ready. I would prefer to go like let it eat and catch and then go out and go on the mount. But I, you know, I was a veteran at that point too, where I was like, I know what it's going to be. I know what it's going to happen. Like, it is what it is, right? And other guys like, I know I got to be, you know, you got to learn that a little bit. So there was a hey, you want to get in the game and I'm like, I'll just throw a pen or I'll go crazy long toss tomorrow. Like that was enough. This goes back to our conversation too about the starters picking which day to do their bullpen. Yeah, they were making the decisions like this. Being hyper mobile, hyper mobile, you choose one or the other. And then you, you make adjustments that way. And it's almost like, like Jake to ground, for example, he threw, he threw a third day hyper mobile. He would be really sore. He also threw a hundred and one every single pitch. Like a lot of these kind of things. But like, he wouldn't play catch the next day. And that was because we know by now why where those injuries come, it's because he's so mobile that he, he needed, he needs to do, he needs to stiffen himself up. He's just like, he's like too athletic. And Brian Wu is very similar. He's getting weird. He's had so many weird, he's like, he's gotten her three times without going on the aisle. Could you like lift your way out of it? Like become less mobile by putting mass on? That is what a lot of guys do. They try to like Taylor Rogers and Tyler Duffy to hyper mobile guys. They would, they would make, they would have to go into the weight room and do their workouts two times a week. They had to get it in. Even if it was good or not, like just move weight around just so I can stiffen up just a little bit. Because if I don't do anything, I'll turn in the gumbi. And I was the same way. I'd be like, I might not lift for three weeks because I'm just naturally like, I'm naturally big strong guy. But like, if I didn't stretch, there's no way. There's no way. So I would have an hour on the, on the floor with a foam roller and all these machines and stuff because that's what I need to do. They have to go work out. I need to stretch. I was thinking about this from a position player perspective a little bit too, because Royce Lewis unfortunately got hurt again yesterday. He's gonna have an MRI on a groin injury. And I keep wondering like, is that, because it sounded like what Royce Lewis did, is he tried to add muscle to counteract the major ligament problems he's had. The same way. Yeah. Buxton too. So is that, is that a case of hypermobile trying to become more stick? Because there's so many, you can get hurt being in either one of these categories. You just get hurt for different reasons. Yeah. And I think that has a lot to do with it. It's, it's a stability thing. It's with him, because these are so freak too. He just gets like knees buckling around weird and like buckles the same way. He would like step on first weird and like hammy or like, and that's, it's when you're hypomobile, you're naturally pretty stable. The problem is you can't move. The other way, you can't build stability if you're super loose. And so it's all about, comes down to stability. That's why you see weird stuff like pitchers hurting their ankle throwing the ball and like stuff that's not normal. I wonder if they learn anything from soccer training, because it's soccer seems like the sport of hypermobile. Like you'd want to be in soccer, be able to, you know, move really quickly, like change directions really quickly, you know, like be able to be a good combination of mobility and stability, how important that those two things are together. So maybe there are soccer workouts. Like I know one thing, Derek, you might know a little bit about this more than I did because my soccer career is pretty short, but like, there's a lot of fair amount of running in soccer. Oh yeah, a lot of running in soccer. I mean, even for training. But yeah, it's tempo. I mean, so like we, when you train for it, you have to go on long runs or you sprint a little bit and you just shorten it up and whatever. We did four, like the first day of practice was a four mile run, and then we still did more work on running afterwards. And then day two was more agility stuff. Running is not popular in baseball. No, no, but I wonder if it could be something that is more useful than people consider right now. Plio's though, plio work and agility work is actually more common. Pretty popular. Yeah. So they're lower. That's like putting the cones down and like kind of running around them. Like kind of like kind of agility. Like, like, like, like when you think of like football, like with the little, yeah, like you run in shuttles, stop and go, stop and go. They want you to do that stuff, especially position players because they'll, they'll don't slight like I'm guy I'm watching. Like I've been watching a lot in person too, watching JP, JP Crawford jump running off and on the field. Like he's a guy you can run a little bit. He can tell he's been around a little bit and he's like very much conserving energy. Lowest third baseman. But like he was when he was younger, he ran a little bit, but you can see how he's how he's changing and how he's using his energy. And the more you do that, the less you are used to like doing that explosive run. So you just kind of stop doing it. Mookie Betts talked about this a lot at the beginning because he was like on purpose. He's like, I'm trying to remain to continue focusing on being explosive. Because if I keep going this way, I'm just, I'm going to slow down a sort of fast. He was talking about sprints and spring training. He even sprinted against their local newscaster. Yeah. Yeah. And he was talking about them. She could fly. Yeah. But he, yeah. So, so he talked about like the importance of that stuff. And, and there's just so many games. So you're constantly like, how much energy I'm saving for the game today with my work? That's the hardest. That's the coin flip you're doing everything. Yeah, it's a little bit easier in football and soccer. You're like, we have one game this week. We have one game this week. We might have to go to the field on Monday, which is awesome. Base were like, I have to go in today or every day. I think the problem in baseball from my chair is that the movements are so repetitive, right? Your body gets into patterns. And I think overuse within a pattern is what causes these kind of devastating and chronic injuries. So my brain is like, hey, maybe it is stuff like agility training, but it's also it's running. It's like backwards running. It's doing things, making your body just move in every possible direction. It might be rock climbing. Like as a way to just get your body out of the same patterns of movement that actually makes you more loose, makes you balanced and stronger in a way that keeps you from breaking down. We've seen some successful bullpens do weird things like, there was a bullpen that was way into Frisbee, like Ultimate Frisbee, and they would play Ultimate Frisbee. And then we've definitely seen some soccer bullpens. And I would advocate for some more of that. I mean, we know that tossing the football is, but the tossing the football is almost too close. It's just similar. Yeah, the training order on gas, like at the end of the interview, it's for pitch. That's almost like a weighted ball drill. Yeah, that's not really that different. I want you to play some soccer. But running a route and cutting and like having to like track the ball and stuff, that's like you have to change position. You got to like adjust to get to the where the spot and it's fun doing athletic movement. We get away from athletic movement. We really do. Picture especially or different athletic movements that aren't turned are the one direction in the throw. Not even turn the other direction on this. Right. It's the one way that I was like that. Like, did you seem to the opposite, right? Of his like twin ball thing and how goofy he looks, imagine me. I saw schemes do that. I thought that actually that seems really smart. That seems like a better way to keep your body from being over trained in one plan or one direction. It's important for deceleration too, because your body, whenever you're done doing whatever you're doing, the body is trying to stop it. You know, like what if you're throwing a ball 90, like at some point your body has to stop your body from moving 90. We get a little bit of room for questions from the live high one from Brian wants to know if you're going to pull a JJ Redick Trevor, you can go from a pod to coaching. I have no desire to do that. I think I've been pretty clear on this. People ask me about like, would you ever want to front office? You want to be a special assistant and then maybe work a new jam. I'm like, any job that makes me have to sit at a conference table and listen to the things my owners saying, I'm out. Like just because as soon as I disagree, I'm just going to be like, I can't, I can't do this. I can't sit here with Art Moreno and just be like, what's the point of this job? You be the GM, dude. You just go, you go say, I'm not going to say the dumb stuff you just said. So kind of same thing coaching because that what if you have a GM that, what about like youth coaching? Oh, youth coaching, 1000%. Like, I just drove down the dropping off of you all coming back, saw them setting back up because there's a summer camp going on over here at our local field at our high school field. It's really nice to her field. And there's like a party and it's like, how is it over there and just what's going on? Just like, Hey guys, want some, want some, I have, I know stuff, but my wife made a great point. She goes, as soon as that cats out of the bag, this, this, this to be, you were gonna, you were going to be the guy that got everything. So just keep it under wraps until you're ready. That's actually, I don't, I don't, I don't want to have too much ego, but like, you know, that's actually been a little bit of a thing for me with Little League where it's like, I'm willing to give my sons all of the information they want and coaching they want. But, you know, stepping that up means there's a lot of kids involved. I could be, I could be over at the, at the Little League stadium, like every day for three hours, four hours a day if I wanted to. And I, I don't know, like my wife wouldn't want that. I don't know if we want that. I don't know if the whole life wants that. No, that turned into your whole life real, real quick update here from producer Brian that Shane Bos is going to start Friday against the Rangers. So that makes a lot of sense just in terms of where he was at and having that vacancy now. Can't wait to see the fastball movement, the fastball, Vilo, I want to see, I want to see how he holds up, how deep, I mean, I think he was getting to 80, 85 pitches at least in his last few starts. So it should be able to go five, but you know, I'm interested to see how it looks. Got the 4th of July here in the States on Thursday, I went back to AI, tried to generate a photo of players in a hot dog eating contest. And I specified that I wanted to see Aaron Judge, Mike Trout, Shohei Otani and Jose Altuve, and this is what it spit out on the screen. Did it combine? I don't know what's going to do in one face. It feels like it did. It looked like it mushed all four of them into one face that made four of that person. They do have slightly different hats, at least there's two or three different hats in the pictures and the hot dogs that's going on with some of these hot dogs. It's so funny. I don't get the AI is not going to save the world. It's not an art. There's not an art. God, the hands are bad. We need artists real bad. It's just you guys didn't even have a hand. Yeah. Yeah. I was a giant flag in the left that the size of the stadium just like in the sky. Well, that part's that part's right, actually. I mean, how big can the flag get during some of these things? How about World Series? It's like someday they're going to have a flag that covers everybody in the hole in the hole. It's the entire stadium. It's the entire stadium. It's like the planes will come over and drop a flag. The drones will just put that over there for the top for the cover. The reason I generated that photo, though, of course, no Joey Chestnut this year in the Nathan's hot dog eating contest, which I mean, hey, someone else gets to win for a change. That's kind of cool. But who in Major League baseball? I don't like you. I don't think that's from the hot dogs and water. It's disgusting. Who would win in the major leagues if there was a hot dog eating contest in the league current players? I don't know if I want to touch this one. You're going to get in trouble? No, just like, okay, here's where I'm thinking. Everyone's going to say like everyone's going to say, I should have said Volga back. I'm not going to say Volga back because, you know, honestly, I think people could could just destroy Volgi in any competition. You should see Nemo eat the guys. Right. That's what I'm saying. There's a bunch of big teams in there's got to be in the sport. But I'm going to go buy a guy that I would if I asked a group of if I could put a bunch of guys in a in a locker room, like just a variety of guys from the league that are all different teams, the guy I think most likely to stand up immediately and scream me is rowdy to us. Even if he doesn't really think he could, I think he would just be like me. I'm the best. You guys can be me. I'm the best. And so I would just be all in on rowdy. I think it would be a spectacle watching that. There is a mental component there being a champion hot dog eater. So you definitely have to have that will to make yourself just absolutely miserable to keep going. So if rowdy has that, that's sort of the thing that's the differentiator that to be clear. That is what I think rowdy has. I think rowdy is like a I if I say I'm going to do it, I'm just going to do it now because I can't not do it. I've got and I'm the stats guy, right? So I've got some stats. How do you have stats on this? I didn't even put this on the rundown. The Phillies visitor clubhouse. Cheesesteak rankings. Oh yeah. Yeah. Individual one day record. Corey Hart's on there with seven. That's the big tall guy. I don't know. You could just pick Aaron judge because he's big and tall. That's why I put him in my AI monster hot dog eating contest. But the record for the individual one day record goes to infielder Adrian Sanchez, who I don't even know who that is. But all star closer Bobby Thigpen is kind of the kind of the rotund version, I think Bobby Bobby Thigpen going back that far. Yeah, the team one day record was the Mets with 103 cheesesteaks in one day. Is it just the act of roster or does it count anybody because I know I know for a fact Dave Recanel the bullpen was a huge part of that. That guy loves those things. He's he's got a bunch of records. He's a legend. No, Recanelos seven and a half on the he's fourth on the individual one day. And in the individual three day, he's also fourth with 14 and three days. Rocky's Coast Mike Jasperson had 21 and a half. Oh my God, it's a lot. They're big too. They're not small. They are not small. These guys make them big. I think there's a couple dimensions here. There is girth, but there's also height, just like there's more like there's more view to fit the food into. But then there's also you know, TW TW the will to win. It's that and how you eat all the time. Some people have high metabolism. They eat a ton all the time. They got more room. Matt Latos is third on the four day record with 18. So it's Corey Hart being on this list. It opens my eyes to it's not. It's not just you're not just looking for the road tone guys. No, you're looking for bullpen catchers. Yeah, Marcus handles probably on there. And every day player is not going to be on this list because you can't. Marcus handle is second in the three day with 18 that I'm sure that has been talked about 20 in four days. I ate 15 tacos in a day on a road trip and lived to tell the tale that that's I couldn't three meals. Yeah, I could do that. I feel like. Yeah, they're like no, good. I wouldn't have fun, but I think we could do it too. But the nine hot dog nine beer that that thing nine in England. How did that go? Did you do it? No, I haven't done it. I haven't made the attempt yet. There was a dude at a Metz game that did it in seven innings. Oh man. He did the by the top of the second he was already four deep. No, dude, you're way you're going. He's like, okay. And he was hurting at the end. You could tell. This is the worst moment of my life. The last two. He was very, very not even that drunk because we're eating. This guy. Let's just put it. This guy was in shape for this. Yeah. This is something he this was maybe just a Tuesday for him. I haven't done it yet, but I want to. So I'll let you know what I do. I mean, I'm sure. I'm sure you're going to make a video. Oh, it'll be it'll be. Yeah, it'll be a video. I'm upset. Well, we're looking forward to the hamburger, I think. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to take it easy on the fourth. I'm going to have like one burger and maybe a hot dog or a broad or something. Keep it. Keep it under control. Everybody out there has a safe. Yeah, you don't brats. We're going to do brats and an outdoor movie Independence Day. It's gonna be awesome. Yeah. Good call. They're a really good call. Hope everybody out there celebrating as a great holiday. I mean, we just saw a bunch of aliens on the screen. So you're warmed up for Independence Day. But you can find us on Twitter, find Trevor at I Am Trevor May, find Eno at Enosaris, find me at Derek VanRaeff, where you can find the pot at rates and barrels. Get a subscription to the athletic. It's $2 a month for the first year at the athletic.com/rates and barrels. Drop us a question in our discord. Link is in the show description or send us an email rates and barrels at gmail.com. Have a great long weekend. We are back with you on Monday. Thanks for listening. [BLANK_AUDIO]
