This is the HopeCast Network. Stories and shows you actually want to listen to. Hello everyone, my name is Ashley, our post time back. And I am thrilled to announce my new podcast on the HopeCast Network, "Locks of Laughs," where I will be chatting with comedians, restaurateurs, and everyone in the entertainment industry about comedy, duh, pop culture, and of course, a little bit of food. You can follow "Locks of Laughs" on Instagram, @LocksOfLaughspodcast. And "Locks of Laughs" will be available on Spotify, iTunes, anywhere you listen to podcasts. So like, follow, subscribe, and I cannot wait to nosh with me. Well, what's up, work advisors? My name is Brad. I'm your host who never misses an episode of work advice from me. And if you've missed one, well, I don't want to publicly shame you, but I'm going to. Today, we have such a great show in store. We have Krista Harden, who is the author of "The Enneagram in Marriage." And if you don't know, we want you to stay tuned to this episode, because we're going to talk Enneagram in marriage right now. She is amazing. She knows all her Enneagrams. We want you to follow her on Instagram. It's Enneagram in marriage. You can find her there. You can see the show in the show links. You'll be able to see her Insta page. But we want you to follow her. Now, we have a question. And this is from Jenny in Boston. Oh, we got another Boston. I try to do Mark Wahlberg imitations. Oh, it does not look pretty that kind. I'm Mark Wahlberg. I don't know if it really translates to work advice for me, but I do it a lot. And I do a very poor Mark Wahlberg. But honestly, he's one of my favorite actors. I love all his movies. Anyway, Emily writes, "Brad, what sport are you good at?" I love how people just ask me random questions. I'm actually good at no sports, but I like to play golf. Never been good at golf anymore. I want to be. I want to be. But yeah, that's about it. I love watching. I'm going to watch your sports. I can watch so many, so many football games. Like, I'd never get tired of football, Emily. But thank you for that question about what's my favorite sport. Very simple question. Then you're right to the point. Emily, I wish there were more people like you. You just get straight to the question. A lot of times people sneak in two questions. In one, you just get straight to it. What's your favorite sport that you play? I think that's what it looks like. It's golf, but I'm not good at it. Don't forget, we have a lot of shows on the Hope casting network, you can see the lineup. We want you to like and subscribe to all of them. Leave reviews, let us know what you think of the shows. And yeah, we have a lot here on the Hope casting network. Thank you, Hope cast, for making this possible with that being said. Let's get to some Enneagram conversation with Krista Harden. Okay, Krista, I have been excited to have you on, because you represent two things that are fascinating to me. Enneagrams and marriage. The people that don't want to get married, blow my mind. First of all, I'm just going to throw that out there. I'm like, why would you not want to get married? It's tough, it's hard, but it's so rewarding at the end of the day. Yes. And so I've been looking forward to this conversation. I've been wanting to have an Enneagram conversation for since work advice came to existence, because to me, you either love it or you hate Enneagram. You got those haters, right? And I haven't even let you speak yet, Krista. But I'm going to say one more thing before you get the chime in. You got to go on Erin's podcast. If you're listening right now on the Hope cast network, we have the everyday runner with Erin, Erin Mayer, and she's great. And Erin highly recommended, because she said, you got to bring her own work advice, because we didn't talk a lot of, I don't think y'all share a lot about Enneagrams. Your episode has already dropped, we'll have already dropped by the time this one drops, own Erin's podcast. So the people that like Erin, that they're going to get to hear you twice, and I'm excited about that. But Krista, thank you so much for joining me today. I'll back to get to you. I'm going to let you talk now. Oh my gosh, well, thank you, Brad. That was hilarious. I love how you shared how you either love or hate Enneagram. It's very refreshing, because a lot of people don't just say it. They say it to me before we get on the podcast. So I love how you left the audience. Like we're all just going to be in this together. Like, especially people are like, I see the value in personality typing, or I don't. And some people are Myers-Briggs people, and some are Enneagram, and I'm sort of everything. I like all the best of marriage theory, but Enneagram has a lot of value. So thanks for letting me come share about it. Don't feel bad if you don't like it. But if you do get something from it, then it could be quite helpful for your marriage. I mean, I totally agree with you. My husband was just saying the same thing last night about just why would anybody not want to get married? He was talking about one of his friends on our date night, last night. And he's like, why did he never want to get married? I can't figure it out. So I love that there's some guys out there who do get that too. Well, it's funny. I have some single friends. And it's different when a married guy hangs out with single guy. It's different. And I found this meme. It is a funny meme and listeners can't see this meme, but it made me laugh. And I called a couple of my friends, it's own. I sent it to a single friend of mine and just some married friends. It's got this gosh. You can see this, what looks like a cartoon. And he's in the middle of like what castaway, you ever seen the movie castaway? If you see cast, we've got the four years, and it says single forever, that dad to the left. Backgirls to the right and hookers and blow to the. So it's pretty funny. Yeah, you're like, yeah, but that goes back to what we're talking about, Chris, the marriage thing. And I'm glad that you said I said that on here because I really have no filters. So I'm going to say whatever on here. Yeah, but I remember, I got married at 30. When did you get married? How old were you? 21. 21, okay. So you have nine years on me and you can't be more than like 33 at this point. Oh, come on, you're too kind. I'm 44 now, so I got a lot of years on you. Oh me? I turned 45 this year. Oh, we're the same age. Oh, okay, what's your birth month? What's your birth month? And somewhere. How about you? September. I'm older than you. Oh, man, what's yours? August. Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. I love it. September what? What was it, what's it, Timberland? 27. What about you? August 22nd. Okay. I've got you about a month, five days. All right, I'll give you that. Your mom was still cooking you. And I was already like, yeah, I got a whole experience of life before I ever got out there. Yeah, I did. But I like that we're both 79ers. Yeah. That's pretty good. I don't like that. You don't look it though. You look like you're in your early 30s. Hey, thank you. I'll take it. But I have to say that to everybody. Yeah. I had one guest on. I'll tell you this. One one guest on. I said, what are you? I said, you're like 28, right? Usually I undersell and she's like, I'm 22. I'm like, yeah, you're like trying to go in the opposite direction. So sorry. But she's like, I appreciate that. I want to look older. So she kind of embraced that I thought she was older. But now I want people to tell me, like, I'm in my twenties, but my hair keeps going grayer. We'll get to that because I'm married. Yes, we do bring out the best and the worst. Okay, Krista. I want to know, like, what was your childhood like and what led you me? I'm just going to let you to what you do today because I do find it extremely fascinating, but I have friends that are like, I don't care anything about any of your image sucks. So, you know, what you were, were you any agraming? Was it out when we were kids? It was, but we didn't know about it. It really wasn't that popular unless you were like a Jesuit priest, doubtful that you were. I wasn't. I was when I was born. But then I became. Yeah, that month was a very busy one. Busy month. I had a lot of competition for you. Yeah. Yeah. Competition here. I feel that as I'm typing you internally. But what I was kind of like was this child was imaginative and did a little bit of speaking in front of my dolls, did a lot of playing with Barbies, relationship oriented, loved my baby dolls. So there was just that part of me that as I got older had relationships and I mean, not very old, like 15, 16, I met my husband at 16. This is after another serious relationship. So just like always counseling people, always giving advice and even my own mom and dad when they would have fights, I would try to give advice and they would take it sometimes and they remained married. And so it was just one of these parts of my life that I always knew what I wanted to do since I was about ninth grade. And before that, I was doing it, but I just didn't know that there was a job title for it. So it was really cool that I got to know my field really young of psychology. And I did go on to get my masters in it. And when we talk about how Enneagram entered, it just mainly happened because I realized that we're not cookies all like when you say, here's a marriage tip. It might work for you, but not me. And that's important that we distinguish. We have different preferences. So whatever typing system you like, I think it's helpful to have at least one or two systems to look at. Yes, it definitely is, but I just like how you knew what you wanted. You said you knew what you wanted in ninth grade? Like you were ready? Yes. I mean, I wanted it bad, so I'm glad I knew that. It's rare. And I love how you were helping your parents. Like, I feel like if I had my dad's a loyal listener to this podcast, he listens all around, but I feel like if I had offered him advice, he would have been lying in. I'm going to ask him. I'm going to ask him a little. I'm going to ask him how he would have took a 13 year old me offering advice. Right. It's like, no, thanks, which I say to my teenagers now if they try to give marriage advice, but my mom and dad, either they were desperate or I was good at it, hopefully the latter. I think they were like, like, I remember my dad saying, she's actually good at this. She should be a lawyer one day and he just didn't know. This is really meant for like this exact thing that I'm doing with you guys with a couple. This is what I'm going to do. You were like, listen, dad, I have to learn this so I can go and work advice with Brad one day. That's the goal. That's the goal. Yeah. You've been it. You peaked at this point. Oh, man, the next 45 years it's like, well, I did that. So it's done. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. There's never going to be another one. Never another. I don't lost my train of thought there. Okay. So, so you're offering the advice and unsolicited advice, but then became solicited advice. They're like, Hey, what's going on? And you're like, this is something I can do for a while. So how do you meet your husband? Like you said, you got married at 21. How did you meet your husband? Well, we were on a double date with other people. If you went on a double with someone else, yes. I had my boyfriend and we were serious in for those who are listening and not watching, you know, in bunny years, however serious you can be at 15. But I was dating him and he was two years older. And so I asked my now husband, Wes, I said, Hey, nice to meet you. My boyfriend and I are driving you to the school dance tonight. And I had just seen him perform as Captain Hook in our school spirit week. And I thought he did a good job, but I wasn't like into him. I was just like, Hey, you know, just nice to meet you. But we look back on that moment and I say, why did I come up to you? Maybe there was a little something there. I kind of remember thinking he did a good job in that. This would be an appropriate time to say hi and also very innocent. So you see that little bit of slickness? So, but I still had like a wonderful time with my boyfriend. I never thought a thing about him otherwise when we had this double date. And what he says is that he saw the fun we were having together and he said, I want that one day, but he did not know he meant I want that one day. I'm when my boyfriend went off to college, you know, the rest is history. And so it was like two years. So my husband and I started to date. And then the boyfriend did come back to from college and he goes, Oh, no, I thought you'd be waiting for me. And I was like, I'm sorry, but you went away to like find other people. You thought I was going to wait for you. I'm sorry. No. Wait, he just assumed Krista was late. Okay. Right. Let me ask you this. Let's let's imagine. This is this is not happened for real, but let's pretend. Let's say your husband Wes has to go off the prison. Right. Minimum security. Right. Good prison. Yeah. Are you waiting? Let's say he gets a 10 year sentence. Are you waiting or are you like, Oh, my gosh. But this is this way. This is Krista. No kids newly married. Not now. Oh, okay. And what changes the ball game? Two. I mean, probably no, right? Because I'm in this state of mind of like wanting to procreate and make my family. And if he did something that I'm like, he was innocent. Yes. I'm waiting. But if he did something that was foreseeable to get him in prison, not waiting. Krista, you get. Oh, hold on. I'm going to throw another, I'm going to throw another perk to the prisons because I've talked about this on this pod before. Okay. If I got to go to prison, yeah, you get, you get, you get, you get to relax. I'm talking minimum security. Right. You get a little job. You get working out. I come out with some guns. I'm not. I don't have them now, but I probably, you'd be seeing a different built buff bread. You get three squares. If I don't have to cook, I can just get out and eat. There's that. You get the conjugal game changer. Okay. You and West conjugal now, once a week, you show up, they clean the room up. You get to go into it. Is that real? I think it is in this, in this scenario, it's definitely real. You're sitting. You're sitting. You're sitting. He's buff. We're making a baby. Yeah. I'm, you know, getting paid because I'm working and thinking through how does this work for security? How does this work for relationship? It's like it's meeting the needs. I mean, I'm not, I'm not going to leave like I have been with this man through thick and thin. And only way I said I would leave is if he was truly like a complete jerk, like he's in jail because he's a terrible person, yes, I'm leaving, but like if he's there and it's like, you know, maybe he's, let's just, because it's so hypothetical, he's trying to steal something. But for our family and I'm just like, that was not smart, but like I see your love. I can see myself just hanging in there with the guy, like I love without, he's not very smart, but I love it. I just found out, speaking, I just found out my wife told my kids the only way she would leave me. I found this out the other night and I could have a girlfriend and she'd want to work it out with me, which is good. And I don't. Listen, listen, I don't, she said the only way she would leave me is if I changed genders because she didn't marry, she didn't want to be married to her. Yeah. And I then it does. I'm trying not to be offensive being listeners, but that's the only reason she said she would leave me. I was like, okay, well, you don't have to worry about that. I'm going to say, dude, yeah, I know, because that's like, well, you know, like, this is my identity too. It's not just yours. And you have every right to it, but like I do too, and I can't stay married if you become a woman. And you're like, okay. Wow. Good to know because I've never become a woman. I'm never going to become a woman. As long as you don't become a dude. I'll be fine. Yeah, that's true. You're like, can she find Nicole? Kristen, I played the guilt card. I said, you know what? I would stay with you if you became a dude because I loved you as a woman. I didn't mean that. It's very sweet. I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it. She's like, no, you won't. She said, if I shaped my head, you'd be okay. I said, no, I wouldn't. You need longer hair. Like, I just love your hair. It's not as if you got sick or something you're like, I'm not. It is sickness and health, but like don't please don't become a dude. Yeah. Just don't become a dude. That's the name of this podcast called just don't become a dude. We're good. I'll be fine. Yes. Yes. So, so we know now that you would you would stay with West if it was a crime he committed for you. That's so bad when you say it like that. I would, I would have pity. I would be like, that wasn't smart, but I see that you are having a heart of love. So if he was willing to reform, like learn and stuff, and yes, he had hard on him as a wife. That sounds like as like a perfect wife. I have high standards, but that sounds like every conversation with my wife that wasn't smart, but I know you did it because you love me. It's like, I should tell me that's this, I hear that all the time, it wasn't smart, Brad. You need to be smarter. I'm like, I'm doing it for you. Yeah. Women are so practical. We're like men are very romantic and we're very practical. Yeah. You like to think it'd be opposite, but it's actually we're like, okay, I've got to get it all done, you know, what's your love thing. I wanted a baby right away. You did? You wanted a baby right away. As soon as I finished grad school, I knew I wanted to do that. And then I was like, I got to have a baby now, my husband's like, maybe we should wait a little while for you to get started in your career. And I'm like, I really need a baby. And so we had our daughter who's now 18. And so it was just like the feeling inside of me to like make sure we go ahead and have this. Maybe it was her wanting to get out. I don't know. Maybe, Chris. Do you ever think about this? Who was it? Is he your age or is he older? He's older. He's my age. August. Also, he's older than you on this first. August first. It was the old boyfriend that was two years older than you. Yeah, he was two years older. Okay. So he's probably really older at this point. Ancient. Ancient. Oh. Have you put this in your mind because I pitched this to my life every now and I'm like, if you and I had had a baby at 16, we could be grandparents at this point and that makes me want to cry. Like I'm just like, gosh, yeah, I'm not ready to do that. I like how we're just whispering this at this point, like the listeners really, we sat serious. What if we just talk like this, though? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I think about that. We were walking the grocery store. I'm like, you know we could be grandparents and she's like, Brad, don't say that, Brad. No. Do you, how old are your kids? Okay. So Max is 11 and Abby is from South Sudan and he moved in with us two years ago. He's six 11 to 50. So we're, you know, I'm only three foot nine. So he's like really bigger than me. And so he's, he turns 19 in a few next week. So yeah. Birthday time for him. He's going off the college to play basketball. So he's leaving us. Good and nice. How cool have you been hosting him? Yeah. He's a great kid. We love Gabby. You're your kid. He's going. Yeah. He's going to UNC Wilmington to play basketball. So any listeners can look him up and go cheer him on. He's a great kid. So cool. Yeah. I'm very proud of him. Yeah. So they, Krista, two things I won't, I won't when we get married to have like an instruction manual. That would be nice. Like, you know, I bet Wes would have loved your parents to give him an, you know, how you get those TV instruction manuals and then a little Ziploc bag in the book. Be nice. You hand that. Second. You're popping out your daughter. She's 18. She comes out with an instruction manual, you know exactly what she needs. That's what I wish because marriage is hard. Yes, it is. Being a parent is even harder at times. Yes. Yes. And look, I want us to talk about that. We can, we can, yeah, I wanted to share how hard it is. Yeah. In the, in the Westport. I think we can just Westport. But yeah. Guys, it's really hard. And so I'm not here to tell you that marriage is a cake walk. I'm glad you have a honeymoon period. We were just talking about it last night and celebrating about the fact that we had that time. And I was saying, Wes, I cannot believe that I used to tell my mom, get me out of the shower if he calls me and we were just like laughing how stupid that was to my mom's credit. She did not do that. She had more dignity for me than I had for myself. It's like your boyfriend called while you were in the shower. I told them you'll call him back. And he's like, thanks. Thanks a lot, mom. Ruined my chances. I'm so pleased about this, Krista. So you were willing, I'm going to ask my wife when we hang up, if she would have done this, you were willing to come out. Would you have dragged off or are we talking sudsy, like, like, still soap in the hair with the towel and just run out there, like, how are you? Because that's how, like, I played hard to get with him for a while because I did not think we were well matched. And that was, like I said, I look back and I see those early memories and I have these little pieces that I can put together. But I knew then just as I know now we're opposites attract and that it would be really hard. So I tried to resist him, but once I saw his, like, really beautiful heart, I couldn't resist anymore. It was like, okay, no wonder I've been running from you. You are such a great guy, but you're going to challenge me in all these ways. And I'm scared of that. Anyway, it was kind of like a sideways answer to your question, but marriage is hard. I tried to run from it. It found me and I'm really glad it did because he's a love of my life. But sometimes it's really hard because that same person is the person that's like, they're going to just, you know, they know how to challenge you in ways that you need to be challenged and to grow you up where you need to be grown up. And then you do the same thing for them and sometimes it's, oh, thank you. And other times we don't want to hear about it, right? We want that to go away. We're like, I don't want to grow up like you. I want you to love me for who I am. And so personality work is a little bit of both of those things and we can talk about that. But okay, that's that I have a really good friend whose girlfriend broke up with him because she didn't see enough driving him basically. But but if you know him, you know, he's slow and methodical on his life. And I would say to him, you don't want to marry someone that wants you to change, right? Your husband wanted to marry Krista because he fell in love with you. He didn't say, I want to marry you, but you have to complete this check off list. You know, that's why there's no instruction manual, right? That's the joy of learning your future spouse, what he likes, what he likes, what he doesn't like, right? I really. Yeah. What would you say to my friend who or anybody listening where their girlfriends want them to be a different person than they really are? I think that that's extremely hard and I'm huge on authenticity on both my Enneagram and my Myers Briggs type. Like it's one of my top core values to be loved for who we are, like top. And that is not the case for everybody. So I agree that it's probably best if she was trying to change him that he finds somebody who already loves him the way he is. Now I think only about 20% of people find a spouse who's like, I really don't at all want to change you. Most people I know, that's their ideal, but in practical reality, we do have things we want to change. And we see our future spouses as like potential where we're like, well, especially Wes and I think about like we were so young that it's like, I want him to mature and he wanted me to mature. So I think that we had to help each other to realize like there are parts of me that you want to change that I'm not going to change because you're going to take away part of my soul. And that's me going deep, but like that is really me. But then there are other parts that I'm like, Wes, you're really good at this. And I see how you want me to change in it. And there's two things I say to those people. One of them is I think you're going to have that role in our marriage probably more than me. Like Wes is really good at efficiency. He's a type one on the Enneagram. He's a perfectionist in some ways. He's a medical PA. So he has all these medical patients. He finds disease and it's really good for those people that he's a one. But I also say, I also will become a little more like you after 30 years almost together and been together now 28 years. So I'm picking up on some of this because you're with me. But if you try to force me into that, that's not going to work. So I think that's what you're getting at. Yeah. Look, there's I've been with my wife now 15 years, so married 14 together. There's things she's taught me that I have embraced one is the thank you card. I never knew you had this and thank you cards. But when you got gifts and now I go to, I got a right to thank you. I want to write a thank you note, let them know they care that I care. But she's she's taught me a lot of great things and, you know, competitiveness or super competitive against each other. Yeah. She doesn't like when I have to what I know something she doesn't know and I have to teach her. She hates. Awesome. But you're right, it's not she didn't look at me when we first met and said, you need to do this, this, this and this or I'm out. She took me how I am and prayed and God led me to where I'm at today and, you know, and but vulnerability, authenticity. That's real. If you can't be yourself around your spouse, you are, you, you're not real to anybody, you know? That's clean. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. I'm putting on a t-shirt. I know. I'm like, you want to take over the marriage expertise here? Like that's awesome. So true. No, it's not. I'll come on yours and we'll talk about marriage. So it's just tough and well, let me ask you this, I had, I had another friend who has a friend, a couple that are struggling and I'm sure you hear this all the time. What would you say to the female who has the male friend and she, how do I put this? She shares things with the male friend that she won't share with the husband. See, that's not good, right? Right. What do you say to people like that and then she, she just, what do you say to that without sharing too much? Because I don't know if they listen or not. Yeah, I would say that it's, if it's not an emotional affair yet, it's just one of those slippery slopes. It might feel like it's totally innocent and it may even be. It's just hearts are so woven in together when we share our depths and because I've worked with so many couples for 20 years, I'm like, I see the pattern again and again and again when couples come to me and tell me their story and it's the same one. It's the pattern of I didn't get to work it out with my spouse. This person that I was attracted to became my confidant and we fell in love because we understood each other and then I was more vulnerable talking about vulnerability and then they accepted me just as I was authentically and then I began to love them. But therein lies the rub, right Krista, because if, why would we assume our spouse wouldn't accept us? Right? Wes accepts you just the way you are, you would not tell me something, you would not tell Wes. Right, exactly. Because when you start doing that, you open that door and I was, I would, I don't know how Wes feels. I would rather my wife cheat on me with just sex than emotional, to me that would hurt way worse. Like, if I found out like she's telling another man her pain, I would let her tell me that when we're laying in bed at night before bed, hey, I'm struggling with this. Yeah. What do you think about that? Because our communication up to the first few years of our marriage, I didn't know how to be a husband, I was a terrible husband, and now there's nothing we don't share. We would hide our finances, like I wouldn't, I would be embarrassed to talk about our debt to income ratio. But it's weird how marriages go, like these people get married and nobody knows how to be married, but, but they're not sharing and then they're going to find a coworker and be like, oh, Krista, let me tell you, man, you know what I mean? It's weird to me and it's so sad. It is because it's such a false relationship, it's built in fakeness because it's like you don't share bills, you don't share hardships. It's all what we call in the therapy world, limerants, which is the honeymoon feeling. And if it goes on for years, maybe you work with person for years, it can go on for years where you're like, the silly things people say to me and we're all just human, but like, it's the same silly thing. They understand me better than myself ever did. It's like, well, you don't, they don't see you fart. You know, they don't see you, you know, have to, you know, being mean to them. Like, they don't hear you snoring, like they don't know what you're like when you're sick. Like it's, they only know the work you. And so we put our best selves on to that other person. And so that's what I love about you and your wife is you're being honest to say it was hard, but we did the work. So you did something to help yourselves to shore up. Maybe you went to church, maybe you got mentors, maybe you had therapy, maybe you just kept talking. These are the things and everyone's going to be a little different, but doing the work is what it takes. Well, yeah, nothing, nothing's easy in life, right? Yeah. It took a lot. We're still not perfect. We got an argument this morning. We're using one car now because we're about to move and we're going to buy another car and I was driving to the work. She left her bag, her work bag. So we had to drive all the way back home. We pulled up like for her to get out at work and she's like, and I said, Oh my gosh. Why didn't you remember that? That was my, and I said that and I felt horrible at the time. Yeah. She shuts down. She's like, okay, I'm mad. She said, I'm not mad, but I'm bothered. Yeah. And we talked it out and she let me know bothered her when I said I'm sorry for reacting with that. I dropped her off and then she called like 20 minutes later and said, you're gonna be mad at me, but can you pick me up in 40 minutes from work? And I'm like, I'm not mad. It's okay. I'll come back and get you. I just got to kill some time now because I don't want to go to my job and think I'm bad. Yeah. But it's the communication. Yeah. People ask, would you not say communication is like almost the number one thing to improve your marriage is communication. Yeah. Absolutely. Because that's what people need to do is just learn to communicate together. It's scary. It's vulnerable for people, but it's worth it. Oh my gosh. And you're right. You put on your best show for people that you're trying to date, right? Like we think about the days when I dated my wife, Kristin, and you were dating Wes. Like, you're not ripping farts on Wes in the morning and saying like, it's like Wes isn't like saying, pull my finger. Exactly. And as Aaron would say, hot boxing, she hot boxes her kid, you know, not doing that. See that. When is the proper time, Krista, to rip a fart after you started dating? Oh my gosh. That's a really personality once again, depending on the personality. Some people hate potty humor. Some people think it's hilarious. I would say for me, I wouldn't have really cared if Wes did it right away, but it would have been weird if he didn't joke about it. Like, I would have demanded a sense of humor with it. If it was like an awkward fart where it was really loud and then he didn't laugh or anything, I'd be like, I'm never going out with him again. That was so weird. You know? But what about you though? The ladies are different. Well, for me, I think that it socially, it probably was, I would say, six months before I grew up. Oh my gosh. I'm in for that. Yeah. Six months. Okay. So let's play the scenario out. Yeah. We've been together two months. Yeah. You got to go to the bathroom. Number two. Are you going at his place? Are you waiting till you get home? I'm going at his place. Okay. I'm not the type of person that can wait. It's just, I would probably have been like in that early, first six months of like honeymoon phase, like, see something in the bathroom and then like not shared. And then after six months for Wes, it's been nothing but honestly, he's like, I'm like, stop your car. I have to go to the bathroom. I've got to go. Yeah. And it's not me. And he's like, okay, wow. That was a TMI kind of moment. I'm like this type of person who explains everything. He's seen it all. So it's fine. He's medical now too. So he's seen it all literally. Hey, he's the best kind of husband to have because when you're old one day and he needs him to wipe you one day, he's like, I've seen it all. It's okay. It is. It is. This is true. I don't know if I'd want to wipe my lab and I'm good and I'll have a, I'll have a doctor come in and do that or a nurse that I don't really want to do that, honey. I love you. Yeah. But don't want to, I would definitely do that listener. So I would. Yeah. Well, here's what my husband would do being medical. He would do it, but then he would get me on the proper diet. If I'm in that place, it's like, like, you know, like my personality, I'm eating popcorn and chocolate. He's like, look, if I'm going to do this, I'm getting you on your fiber. Like he would do that. Yeah. Yeah. No taco Tuesdays for a picture. That's what happened. I remember I said that to my OBGYN during one of my pregnancies, I go, I have had some stomach aches. She goes, what have you been eating? I said, Taco Bell. And she's like, hello. Well, we call it taco smell because it's definitely going to see. Yeah. I mean, it's a great x-lax. It is. I was I shocked, you know, 70, you can get a soft taco for like a $2 and I was about to say 79 cents, but that was back when you and I were 18. Yeah. That was a long time ago. They're not 79 cents anymore. Yeah. They're still cheap. They'll think goodness. They are cheap. They're poor man's dinner. Right? Yes. Poor man's dinner. Okay. So back to the marriage thing. So what's the craziest? What's I don't want without that bulging much, but like what's a story that you hear a lot that you're outside of what we just said that you're like, holy crap, man, this is. I don't know if I can help. Like this is terrible, is cheating like the most common culprit or is it finances or is it back to communication? Well, for the people who come to see me, I would say it's communication because sex, you got it. I mean, the big three are finances, sex and communication, but when we talk about like divorce statistics, the number one reason is affairs. So people don't like to be alone. So if they're going to divorce, they start to seek a mate often before they, you know, really exitfully. It doesn't sound nice, it's not, but it happens. And so there's a lot of skulking around and it's sad because sometimes they come and this is always the ones that are hard is when you can tell they're already gone, but they just came in to do a fake session and you're like, they're not here. They're just like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm here. And then their spouse is like, they were cheating on me. And they're like, you can just feel it that they're still cheating. And so you have to like kind of just work with that for a minute and it comes out pretty quickly that they're still cheating. Can you do not, you can, do you see one of the type that we just call now on their bullcrap, right? You'd be like, yeah, I'm gentle, but I do. I'm just like, yeah, you know, I'm getting like, I said this the other day to somebody. Like it lurches me to when I can smell it. And I'm like, I sense a huge red flag in that statement. I'm like, there's some, something is secret right now about this, you know, they're just like, okay, I'm like, I don't know what it is. I don't know if there's another party. I don't know what's happening, but we have to figure that out together. And I, it's okay if you don't want to do that in this session with me, but we also do need you to, um, if this marriage is going to work, you're going to have to be a bit more vulnerable here, because this is a huge red flag moment for you. And I say that with as much tenderness as I can, because I want you to know in all your listeners, like people and affairs, there's a complexity to a marriage. As we all know, and there's a story and what is that other party doing to make the marriage a really not fun place to be now? Do they deserve to be cheated on? No, nobody does, but it's also important to know what is the story behind it. Maybe somebody's been neglectful. Maybe they've been abusive and we don't want to just be hero villain with the story. So when I did that conversation with that person, I also was calling the other spouse on their stuff. But if we're going to heal it, we need to know the fuller story. Well, yeah, it, well, it takes two, right? It's not always one person. If someone's in the arms of another person, there's a reason why they're both at fault. We just got to get down into the weeds and figure that out. So you can prune it to then grow it back in flourish, right? Yes. And I love actually, I don't mind working with affairs if they're actually both willing to do the work. It's really, it's really rewarding. It's fun to see. Have you seen, have you worked with affairs where you've seen like 10 years out and they're flourishing again? And it's great. Does that not make you proud? It does make me proud and my practice now is about 12 years old. The couples, I don't always get affairs, but I do have one from about nine years back. And they just came in for some rechecks and it was a need that they had. It wasn't about them though. It was about like their kid, their own self care. And I felt so happy. I'm like, I've been watching you from a distance like on Facebook and I'm just so glad to give you your touch points again to just make sure that you're flourishing. And they are like, yeah, we're nowhere like where we were. Just, you know, life is hard sometimes, so we need some support. But in the meantime, in between those things, boy, did I love just taking a peek and seeing man, all the hard work they did, all the birthdays, all the games, all the recitals that they've been doing. It's just like, I get to see, I know the story, most people don't, that you guys almost didn't make it. And it's just so fun to see that. Is it ever weird for you to know someone's story and then know they don't really help themselves. They're faking it, right? Yeah. And then you run into them at Walmart and you got to act like you don't know anything. Yes. You can't even acknowledge them basically, but you're like, oh my gosh, those people, they are super weird. Like, you can't share it with your husband, I'm sure, but you're just like, oh my gosh, I meant some weird freaks today, they are like, I can't have that a couple of times, but I am thankfully most of the time, like, they either, like, first session, maybe my kindness wasn't enough and they were probably like, she does not like us and they never came back or, and I'm talking like, really, really rare, but like somebody who literally is like, oh, I'm in a nudist colony, like, or, you know, I'm in a throttle, I'm in a group of marriage and one of us is suicidal and I'm like, I'm sorry, but no, because marriage is for two. And so like, those are the ones where I'm like, you're too weird for me, but like, I'm weird too, but like, no, I'm not going to do that. You saw him feel fit? You saw him? Yes, I love him. Okay. So when you say that, that makes me think, remember, remember, uh, naked, Jerry, not good. Remember, he had a whole episode where he, he was dating a girl who's like, be noodle top. Yeah. Yeah. He tried it. So I don't understand the thrumples. I don't understand the nudist colony stuff, but in the thrumples, I was thinking about that while we're talking. I don't know what crazy man would want to it last time with you, like, like one is hard enough. Like, we're literally, I can't emphasize being married is hard and it's so rewarding. But with two, I would constantly feel like I'm neglecting you if I was with my wife. You know, I'd do like only Chris said, you know, like, I just put you in my throttle scenario. Right. I'm like, but like honestly, those guys are in trouble all the time because I told you women are very practical and we also have a four week hormonal cycle. We're off for about two weeks out of the month. Like what if the women aren't timed up and there's always, you know, you've got to think them up. Like if I was doing throttle interviews, possible, no, no, no, Chris, the throttle interviews, if we're, if we're interviewing right now, it'd be like, I think Chris, Wendy, you cycle because got one cycles on the 20th. I need you to cycle around that time and then you're like, I don't want to own the fourth. I'm not yet. This isn't going to work. I'm sorry. All right. Because women are still predictable that we can do that even in our opinion. I can't even go there for a fantasy with you, a few teen daughters and we do not do that right. We do not cycle up right. If we're a husband and son, they're like, oh Lord, all three of you or like the months where they don't get a break at all, I was going to ask that. Do you have a son? Because I was about to say more West, he's surrounded by nothing but, but women. Yeah. Exactly. And he loves it. But like that's hard and you will, you know, sometimes it's just funny. Like we're joking and it is a lot of the time like that. But sometimes it really is where we're all just like, we're, we're pretty good communicators. So we'll be like, we're all mad at you and it doesn't make much sense. But we want ice cream. You know? So that helps. So that's a nicer language than like, what else we could be saying. Yes. And so it's kind of good that we've been finding that kind of language. Well, yeah, my wife, I drove her, she kind of rotates. So one month she's mean, the next month she's tired. I get that. The next month she's mean. So I'm like, oh, she's going to be mean to me this month. Like I'm going to get a lot of grief. But in the next month, I'll be like, yeah, she's just sleeping. So I can handle that. She just got a headache. Maybe she's tired. Yeah. Exactly. I like how I've just talked about my life cycle. But the couple of people are crazy to me. Like, I don't understand that. I'll never understand it. I never want it. The marriage is that, that open it up is weird to me because I'm like, if you're opening up your marriage, something's lacking with your spouse. Sorry if I fit anybody's in open marriage listening. That's just my beliefs. Y'all know where I sit on that. Yeah. And God intended for us to have one spouse and that's all I will ever. Yeah. Yeah. And we see all these historical examples of where it did not work well with more than one and biblical language and other cultures. And we see them now too with these troubles telling me, hey, we want help and we're suicidal. It's like, well, it's just painful to even hear the story much less. I feel bad for the people inside of it. Like, there's the sense of like, I'm not enough. And that's what they do see when you hear them on the talk shows or hear about their lives as I get to when they kind of query for me. And I'm like, I'm sorry that I don't work with ruffles, but like, I get it that you're in a lot of pain. Because like you just said, like, that's a really hard situation to be in. So I'm grateful, you know, that we're in many people are in marriages, which is one to one because they know that has a much higher safety and more fun because it's just like each of you, you know, well, for me, I never, I did, I don't know about you. I can't speak free, but I did not even live with a woman until I got married. So like I had, I had no, like when we got married on our honeymoon was the first time we'd ever laid in the bed together. So and ever had the sex. So yeah, and it was great, but then I see couples that in Hollywood or in normal life in real life that that date for that live together and date for five, six, seven years, they get married and then they're divorced within a year. It blows my mind. Like I'm just like, Oh my gosh. How is that possible? And two, yeah, you might you might know this more than me, but I have definitely saw heard studies that marriages last longer when when you don't live with your spouse prior to getting married. Yeah. That is really true. Cohabiting couples tend to do a little worse. And there are a lot of reasons for that, but we really appreciate when couples can say, Hey, if I've been cohabiting, I, I do want to get married. Like that's a good step for them, but it's not a good step. If you're like, Hey, I'm starting out in life. Is it better statistically to cohab it or to marry? Now if you're a part of my faith community, which I'm a Christian, of course, many of the listeners may not be, but you're going to say, Oh, I don't want to live together first. I want to marry. But if you're not, it's look at statistics. It doesn't bode well for you to cohab it before marriage. So it can work, but it doesn't usually work quite as well. Okay. I've talked about this on here before. I work at a church and a pastor on staff at a church. Even I hear this, Krista, it is a different world. You and I growing up in the, in the nineties, we never have said this around a pastor, but I hear this now. So you got it. You got it. You got to have a set. You got to try it out before you met. You got a test driver. Yeah. It's like, I don't agree with that. I don't. Yeah. And it's so hard as a pastor to hear that, right? Yeah. And you're just like, Oh my gosh, that's when we are in society though, because they ran through up holes down your throat, they ran everything down your throat, right outside of my personal beliefs on what I stand for. And you don't have to, listeners, you don't have to test drive it. Krista would agree. You don't, you don't. You can be totally successful. A lot of practice time later and sex can get better. Yeah. Exactly. That's the part of marriage that gets better with time. And if you're basing your marriage on how good the sex is, your marriage is not going to be happy. Because you spend way more of your time outside of the bedroom than nude in the bed. You do. And it's so true. God, you just shouted that from the rooftops to everybody, like don't marry for that reason. But it will married couples do statistically have more sex. So another thing is people think, you know, I'm going to stay single so I can have more sex. No, you actually will have more married. So it's, it's a good thing to find a wife, you know? And so I'm glad that you let people know that even though you're also very realistic to say. And my husband knows it too. Like he was saying that last night with that friend, he's like, yeah, it's okay. You know, there are people who choose to be single and that's fine for them. And you're even saying, I'm not trying to judge you if you live differently for me. But I do want to speak to the glory of marriage that it is nice to have one partner to wait till you're married, to live together, to have sex, like you have a lifetime to discover each other and it will be exciting to do so then. And you'll figure it out together also like that you said something one of our favorite author, C.S. Lewis said, which is like in his book, The Four of Loves, he's like, sex is messy. You've got to be able to laugh like it's, it's not always going to be easy. There's so many seasons of life when women are all touched out from pregnancies or guys are struggling. So just expect like you said, don't marry for sex because there'll be all kinds of seasons with that. You've got to be able to work with that. Yeah. Again, you don't lay in the bed most of your marriage, I mean, there's days I come home even as a dude. Hollywood sets these standards up, Krista, where you'll watch TV show and you know, you'll think that you got to have sex three times a day, seven days a week. And you know what? I don't even want that. Right. Yeah. There's, there's days I'm exhausted and I'm like, yeah, I don't want to have sad. My wife would be like, I'm just too tired, like it just happens, but they don't share that in Hollywood. But then if you're a young couple and you're sitting there, you feel inferior because you're like, well, look at that, man, they're, you're, we're supposed to be doing this seven times a week and we're doing it two times a month. You know, I eat right and you start feeling like you can't do it. Yeah. No, that's so unfair. And I think if you're ever looking for like, what is a healthy number, you could say, let's aim for once a week because that's a good number for people saying like, if we can try for that, but we know that some weeks might be more, some weeks might be less. That's a good kind of roundabout number that most people would say if they're having sex one or more times a week in their marriages, then they're, they're just as satisfied. But of course, we know stories will be different where there's different seasons of life. The honeymoon season, the old age season and my husband being medical, he's like, I have guys in their 80s and 90s who are still performing. So it can go for a long time for some people. It just, it's just, you can't, you can't think, you can't look to the left and right. You just need to look at your relationship and try to honor that relationship because it's not about the sex. It's about that commitment to each other. Yeah. What you didn't know, you were going to prison. Yeah. You didn't know you were just going to do a therapy session with me and this is not really ever going to air. We're just, I'm just getting therapy. Yeah. I'm kidding. But there's so much more to marriage. Like for me, I find my wife more beautiful today than the day I married her because I'm more in tune with her emotionally. You know, when I married her, I was like, I want to banger. Right? Like that's what I'm going to do. Yeah. But now it's like, the sex is good. I love the sex, but for me, it's more of, man, I just want to, I like just laying with her and it, what's your, what's your love language, by the way? Well, I am kind of just a quality time person. Yeah. QT. So I love when my husband wants to just spend time with me. Okay. Mine is physical touch. Okay. And words of affirmation, I like that. She doesn't, hers is not physical. See, this is where we're going to talk any agreement. Yeah. Hers is not physical. She doesn't like to be touched, but me, we have a king size bed. And if you could see it right now, my pillow is always over to her side because I like to hold her or her whole me in the bed. So I'll always like touch, but I don't know where I was going with this, but hers is not. She's more like quality time. Like you, she wants to spend quality time with me and, you know, and words, I think hers is, no, hers, she likes gifting. She likes to be, you know, she likes to give. She gives back. So that's our thing. That's so sweet. She's a good gift-giver. She is. She likes to give. I'm going to, let me brag on her minute Christmas. So we're moving and she calls me up yesterday at work and she's like, hey, there's someone that we know that has one car. We have one car right now that has one car, but it broke down and they don't have any money. They're struggling. And I'm like, okay, she said, I told her, we'll give her our van. We have it. We have a Honda Mini, a Honda Odyssey. And I'm like, at first I'm like, oh my gosh, we could make some money off that. We're about to move, right? Wow. But her heart is so genuine. She's like, I just feel like God wants us to give her that van. So we're giving her the van once we buy a car. She's going to get the van. Yeah. So that's my wife's heart, though. Just I get to brag on my wife on you. Huge heart. Oh my goodness. Bigger than mine. Because I would have been like, we'll see 500 bucks off this at least. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That speaks to me so much. I just left this session and I'm like, we are in the session. Like, wow. Yes. And we don't, it's, we don't really roll in cash. So it's not like we can, you know, we're not, we're not wiping between. You're like, it costs. So that was my wife's heart. Oh my gosh. It costs. But, but giving and loving cost, everything comes at a cost. What kind of cost do you want to pay, right? To love my wife, it cost me to not have another woman in my life, which I'm perfectly fine with the cash that you've been in, and yeah. So any of your grams by the way, let's get to that. I wanted you to get to know me a little bit before you, you wonder, you, you, you got my in a gram. So what number do you think I am? Oh, no pressure. No pressure. I know. Well, I, I sense a couple of types, but one of the big ones has been the three. I sound like I'm wrong from how you said that. Well, I'll tell you later if you want, three, three wing two is my thought. Two and three. Mm hmm. Okay. Seven. Very two. Seven. Okay. But, but in that, I think I took it years ago, I think I might have changed. I haven't taken a current one. Interesting. Well, you might still be a seven because I see, like, I see why you type to seven because seven is funny and a great jokester and very. But I'm going to tell you why I thought that, but then I changed to three. So that's why I was like, don't throw that one away because anyone listening can hear that part of you. But I also hear a very deep heart of love and that is, um, choose threes and fors are the heart types. And so that might have been your wife's influence rubbing off on you because one of the things that I believe is that I, as I told you, Wes is very good at efficiency. That has rubbed off on me. Now I'll never be to the same level as him because that's his natural God giving gift. But it has changed me to where one of my old bosses thought I was a one. And so I think I saw that in you this huge heart. And that's what I saw, you know, um, and the three is a performer. So I'm like, he's a podcaster. He's got a huge heart. Let me start with three. But if you say seven, I'm like, it's not that sevens can't have huge heart. It's just that they're funny, but they don't usually like to go to the same depths. And you, you're a mature seven if you're a seven. Maybe I've changed. Cause I think the last time I took it was 2019. That's five years ago. I need to, I need to update it and let you know my score. That's what I'm going to do. Which one you feel like is the most you and you can even go to my website where I have a little booklet where it kind of says, here's my fear, here's my gift and it just takes you down to that level. It's your free typing guide at Enneagram and marriage.com. So that would be like a place where you could cause what if the test is wrong cause you took it in a bad mood that day, you know, and we'll put that link in the show notes for people, by the way, they can take that. Myers Briggs. I've taken it. Explain that to me again. That one is more about your cognitive functions. I like to use it for work, but it's also helpful for at home because it's, it's a little more confusing in this way. Enneagram is one number and you can go as deep with that as you like, but Myers Briggs is four letters and it's just, you're going to forget if you're not really studying it hard what those four letters mean because it's four things to remember. What is it? What's four letters? It's like E versus I for extroverted versus into, you know, which is helpful, right? So that's helpful. Are we extroverted or interverted? Are we sensing for the S which is like, then it's going to be your second letters could be a sensor or you could be a person who is intuitive. So are you more of a five senses person or do you like to intuit things? The next one is, are you thinking analytically and logically or everything? Are you feeling everybody's feelings? That's going to be T or F. And then the last one is the J or P judging or perceiving. And that's more. So a lot. Are you going to be outer world order? Like I want everything to look good. It doesn't mean judging like judging people. It means like I like things to be orderly in my room or you a perceiver that you're like, I like things on the fly. I like things a bit more open. So when you put those together, all these combinations, you know, ENFP ISTJ, you come up with a really nice archetype for work for home and it's quite specific. You can do that work with Myers Briggs or with Enneagram. Have you ever done the personality of a lion, an otter, a beaver, and a golden retriever? I haven't studied that very much, but I think I took it once and I can't even remember which one I was. Maybe otter or what was the second one? You would probably be like me because mine is an otter and a lion. Okay. Very similar. And I am a seven. Yeah. So you would be like me. Otter likes to have fun. They're going to be the fun person, but they're going to get things done. They're going to dream. They're going to be visionaries and a lion's going to take charge and make sure it happens and maybe they like to have authority. The golden retriever are the loyal people that's going to always stick by you and support you. These are the admin type who are efficient, kind of like West, very efficient. Probably he might tend to be a beaver in that aspect of like, I'm going to make sure we get this done. And here's the list of how we're going to do it. Yes. So I love that. I do that with people that I meet at my job a lot like they'll do the test and I'll try to guess their personality and it makes it fun for me. I love that because Myers Briggs has 16, Enneagram has nine, and now we've got it down to four. I love the sleek, elegant, whatever we can do to help people to find how they work and to get to know each other. That's so cool. I should sing you that. Please. Because for me, I love to learn people and I observe you and then you give me time and I'm going to guess where you're at personality wise because we can't, you and I can't ask a beaver to be an otter if they're not, like you just can. It's not going to do it. It's not in their wheelhouse. So when you get people in your marriage, because you talk about this on your website and everything because we need to know what our numbers are to help us in our success. So if you get two otters, they're going to have a lot of fun, right? But if I marry my wife, Kristen, and I say, I want you to get on stage and do this, she's going to be like, no, I'm not doing it, it's just not going to happen. So my assistant at work, I know what I can ask her to do and what I can't. She's grateful that I have her, I challenge her, but I also know my limit where she's not going to do certain things that I may need her to do. So I know not to ask her, but that's her personality type, but then you get the best out of that and what they're good at, right? Wow. That's so cool. I love that you're using this at work. And you made me think of you as really having some seven when I see now how authenticity means a lot to you too. I was thinking about that, like you really like to know, like you like to do systems, which is a very thinking type brain, so you're looking at systems of people. And you also really like to be loved for just who you are, which is very seven. And it's not that the type three achiever for those listening who might be wondering, like, oh, what is the difference between his type? He's more of an enthusiast systems builder. Or the achiever is like somebody who basically they want to merge with whoever they're with and they're called the chameleon. And it's like they can, when they're at their best, they can be a truth teller, right? Like you did some truth telling with us today. But like, if they're really a three, then they kind of do merge and become a chameleon a lot too. And that's, they don't mind as much to wear the mask. And you do. You're like, I don't like to wear a mask, like I'm a free spirited seven. Don't tell me that. Yeah. So I can see this seven in you. The same one that the me you're talking to now would be the same me talking to you off camera. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It is what it is. But let me tell you this, Chris. So here's the thing. And I didn't bring you on just to brag about me or talk about me, but I won't say this. This is change. So when I first started work advice, and I might have shared this before I went, when I first started work advice, I was really nervous to have people come on and I would, I would write out my questions. So early episodes, if people want to go back and listen to early episodes, like with Jay billers, I would be like, Oh my gosh, I got to write these questions down. And they're going to be 10 minute podcasts, 10 to 15 minutes. And I'm going to knock them out. But then I was like, you know what? I'm not being me, like this is not me writing. Like I had zero questions written down for you, Chris, because I'm like, you know what, we're just going to chat and let the conversation carry itself. Yeah. Then I said, well, Chris is coming in. I'm just using the example. I started to tell myself, Chris is coming into my playground, right? Just like if I come on your podcast, I am coming into your sandbox that you have set the parameters for, right? So I stopped being nervous and like, well, Chris is coming in. She's either listened or she hasn't, she knows what she's getting in for. It's on her. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't want to play, but I'm grateful that you're coming in and you want to play. But if you don't, it's okay. But it's once I freed myself from that and that's what they marriage to, right? Yeah. If you're not being yourself, your marriage can only go so far. But if you want you free yourself and you're like, I can come and communicate, I'm going to do it. It's so much more fun. I have so much more fun now shooting the breeze with you, talking about taking the dump on your date opposed to Mr. Billis. What do you think about? There's a total difference. I challenge you, Chris, go back and listen to Jay Billis. First ever episode, I drop on work advice, it's a 12 minute episode. Listen to that and then think about what you and I just did and let me know your thoughts on. I will. I'm like, I'm not being true to myself and that's not me. Yeah. Yes. And that I think would fit your animal archetype, your Enneagram, and your Myers-Briggs. Like I think you're an explorer. And so you've really nailed it with that statement about the seven. Like you are a seven because the three is much more like I said, I've got to fit a cookie cutter. But it's not that that's not efficient and wonderful. All the three is listening. If you know you're a three, like there's a respect to that, but your gift is exploring well. So you're saying, I'm a podcaster, I explore well, that's my number one function. And in fact, that's what my husband wants to be mine to. He's always saying that to me. He's like, you're an explorer. And that's what you have to focus on for your wheelhouse because that's your gift and it's off the cuff is the gift. So yeah, you got to do that and not everyone has that gift. Okay. Okay, Chris. Think about your podcast now compared to when you started. Think about what you've changed. You've changed something. You might change a lot, right? You can't see it. You can't and I can't and the listener can't see what what a year holds God God's great about not letting us see to model right and I can only speak for myself. You know, I'm going back to that, uh, Mr. Bill is, uh, what do you call, you know, to now, you know, Heidi, Heidi from Survivor 44 is on our network. Like I could not see that then. I got to go to a survivor party, hang out with people from survivor. You know, I get to know someone Lee from Hills kitchen. She's coming on. Like there's so many Aaron, we've got so many talent, talented people that's going to come on this network and do their own show and and be a part of what we do here. Yeah. But we couldn't see that a year ago when I was writing out my questions. Wow. You couldn't see that when you first started your marriage in anyagram podcast or you're writing your book or you're in your marriage. It's exciting. Right? Like I don't want to see what my marriage is going to look like 15 years from now. I want to live it and dream it and, you know, listening, we're selling everything and moving. That's a big change. We're starting over in a new area to be fun. To me, it's explored. Like what you said. So, uh, like I've just talked about myself a lot. I'm sorry. Listen. No. Krista's great. We're similar. So we got it. Yeah. Me and you just we're just sitting here just talking about like, they're like, Oh my gosh, they're just shooting a breeze and then learning. But we don't we don't I guess I enjoy learning Krista. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. That's your bread and butter is learning and exploring. And then, um, if your Myers Briggs was ENFP, which you can check it out on any Myers Briggs website, but it's exploring it is like the top two functions of that are exploring and authenticity and then efficiency is sort of your 10 year old and then your three year old would be, um, memory. So it's like, you know, you could say, here's your top two functions. Here's your last two. Don't expect as much from the last two from your top two expect a lot. Do your, the driver is what you do. That's who you are. But when you're in your, uh, authenticity, that's what you bring to the world. And I love that. And you brought that to me today too as your guest and it was a message. I know God was giving me because, um, I'm going to be vulnerable and say a couple of hours ago, I had an interview on somebody else's podcast and she also said the same thing. So it's like, God is trying to speak to me today to say, oh my God. She said, I do not like to just list it out. I like to be authentic. And I really feel like that's a message I needed to hear today. So thank you. What podcast was this we can talk about was it good? And Enneagram nine podcast, um, with a really cool woman who wrote an Enneagram murder mystery. She's a Christian also, but she's so fun. And she's a type nine peacemaker and I'm laughing like, oh my gosh, her book was so interesting and usually I read nonfiction and it was, it pulled me right in, like learning too. But I was like, oh my gosh, this book is grabbed me. So, um, anyway, I'll have to share that episode with you. Yeah. I want you to share with me. This is probably, it was, were we the same or the opposite, um, who you and her? Yeah. She didn't ask you about taking a dump on your date, right? I'm sure. She did not. Trust me. I'm very different. She asked me about every single Enneagram type mom and what of the lesson each one could learn and I'm like, oh my gosh, this one's so good at being peaceful and then they also have to be strong and like that kind of thing. Um, so she did not have it scripted, but she still had a sense of like, here's what I want to talk about. And us sevens we like to explore. That's not her gift. She's a type nine and she likes to keep it a little more like in her one lane and your gift is exploring. And so you get to do that. You're great at that. Well, thank you. I brought you on to tell me how great I am. I'm going to let my wife know that when we hang out. I really want to hear her podcast now because I'm fascinated again, Enneagram fascinates me because it's, it's, it's personality types and yeah, I'd help, you know, it can help you be a better friend. It can help you be a better husband, wife, uh, child, um, it can help so many ways and people don't realize the gift they could just learn from others. But people that don't want to learn, they blow my mind. I'm like, we're given one life. Let's, let's suck in everything we can. Yes. Take it in and grow from mistakes. You probably tell your, your girls and your son losing shows more about your character than winning. You learn more from a loss than you do from a win. That's true. I try to tell my kid that. Both of them. You're gonna lose in life, you learn something from it. What did you take from it? Yes. That's good. But don't, don't lean in on the negative. Yes. That's so good and so key. Yeah. You're a light to the world in that way. Like you're doing God's work because you're bringing that joy. You got to, right? You got to. Yes. And in re-die, listen, uh, re-die Hebrews 10, 22 through 25. That's my verse. That's what I live my life by, spur in each other all. It's our challenge to spur people on and get them to do what God's called them to do. Yes. So run that race and run that race and when you're done, you can be proud of what you've done, the legacy you left. And, you know, I have fun on here. I love being a goofball, but I also know what I'm here for. Right? Mm-hmm. What you're here for. Yes. And it's for more than just podcasting, right? Yeah. Absolutely. I like it. Yeah. I like bringing some people on that do different things. Yeah. And I'm glad you. Yeah. What's in the horizon? What's in the horizon for you? I'm curious. Well, what can we, where can we find you and what you got planted? Well, you guys can find me at any of RamonMarriage.com to kind of scope out what you want to find out for yourself because I'm here really to be that conduit to find people, like you said, just that harmony together with their partner. So, if you want to get married, if you are married, it's a great place to just find, "Okay, here's our type. Here's our tools." I've got also worksheets just for communication and things like that, too, in my freebie section, along with my book and everything and my podcast. But, yeah, that's where I'm at, any of RamonMarriage.com, and also at Instagram, any of RamonMarriage. And then I would just say, you know, the work I'm going to keep doing is I'm going to keep fighting for couples one to one marriages, I'm going to keep fighting for people to really love each other with authenticity, and I'm going to keep exploring how to make our family systems the healthiest they can be because it matters what's been done before and we can learn from history. And we can also be, each of you guys out there can be a light to other couples, too, to encourage them with your gifts, like you guys have encouraged your boys, and so many listeners are thinking "My marriage is just for me to have fun," and I'm really here to remind you, it's really hard work. There's a lot of fun to it, but you're also going to have the most joy when you're serving together. So, like your wife with the car, like, there's joy that comes from going to the amusement park together, but there's a deeper joy that comes from doing something meaningful together. So that's really my big or heart that I hope people always get from my work. Wow, you're amazing. I say, you know, this is one of my all-time favorite episodes, and we'll just throw it out there. Yeah, yeah, this has been great, and I really hope and pray that people listen to you and listen to me dominate the conversation, probably shouldn't have done it. I loved it. But I'm like, you know, it's my show, you either want to come on or you don't, right? I mean, that's the thing. So, be authentic to yourself, don't be a thinker. Being genuine is you're genuine. You have not held back today, and I appreciate that, you can sniff out the old non-genuine people. Yeah. They can only go so far with people before they start smelling bad, right? You're like, "Oh my gosh, that guy sucks." Well, for me, apparently it's six months. Yes, you start smelling after six months. That's when you... That's when Pore West was like, "Yeah." He's staying to his crowd now. But now he's like, "Okay, I know that's your fart." You know, my wife's like, "Yeah, yours have a smell. I know it's yours." I'm like, "How does that even..." It's like... This is the thing that 15 years of marriage will do. Yeah, and you can look at your daughters, and you can say, "Y'all gotta wait six months before you do that." And they're like, "What, the sex?" No, no, no, no, no, no, the farts. That's when... Yeah, that's the first step. And then if you can handle that, you can start getting engaged. Yeah, then you get engaged. Wait, let me ask you this before you hang on. How did West propose? I'd love to know that. And how did he present it to your folks? He actually did not ask my dad's permission. I'm shocked. I thought he would. I know he... I thought he would too, but I think he was a little scared, my dad might say no, or tell me. I'm not saying no, but more tell me as I remember it now. And so he was like, "I just felt like I wanted it to be a huge surprise." And so he asked me on the beach and on one knee. And it was really like a beautiful night. We'd had our friends were like volunteering with Campus Crusade for Christ. Now it's all true, but we were on a walk with his best friend and his date on the beach. And then he's like, "Can we split off from them?" And then he began to just say, "We have..." You know, actually he said, "I started to say this to you." I started to say, "We have so much in common and I love all these things we have in common and you just gave me the perfect moment." And he's like, "I'd been carrying the ring around in my wallet for a while waiting for that moment." And so it was beautiful, but then he kind of totally shocked me. And he's like, "I think we have a lot in common too." And he got really like that soft, husky voice and he got on one knee. It was so sweet. As a Type 7, who it's harder sometimes for me to get into that emotional heart space, it was a bit surreal. If I had planned it, I would have been ready, but because I was shocked, I was wanting it, but it was like, "I'm afraid of these big emotions." So that was like, "Whoa!" And then as soon as it was over, I was able to reflect on it like, "That was one of the greatest moments in my life, but I need a minute to reflect on it." That sounds amazing. Yeah, it was really precious. Can I ask you, for me, what number does this relate to? Because if we're with a group, you and I, and we're hanging out, and you're like, "Brad, you are really great at this. You are the best at that. I don't like that kind of praise. I don't want public. What number is that? Because that's something that I struggle with. It is. Yeah, you're really sounding very seven, because it's like the three, and those were kind of the two types I was doing with for you, but of course, we're all going to be more than one type, right? But I'm talking about your main type, like that three really does eat it up because they feel loved when they get praised, and that's okay, because that's how they have learned to feel loved, and they're trying to work it out, "Yes, I want God to love me no matter what He does." But I love when people give me praise, that's what a three would say. Whereas a seven, the big emotions are a lot to process, because we're thinkers first. So it's like, "Whoa, you just hit my heart unexpectedly, and we're planners." Not planning everything, like you said, there's a go with the flow to it, but emotionally we're planners. So it's like, if I'm going to have a good cry, I better be ready for that, or it's a safe environment, or if I'm going to be told, "I just did a really good job," I almost just deflect it so I don't have to feel it, and fight with my inner critic about it, or even deal with it. That is so true, but I like one-on-one praise. If you were my boss, I would like for you to just come up to me and say, "You know what? You did a great job there. I really liked that." But when you do it in front of a group, I always deflect. My boss dished, "I'm leaving where I'm at now." So he was complimenting me at staff, and I was like, "Well, I paid him to say that." I made a joke. Yeah, that's a seven. That's a... Because I don't want to sit, I feel awkward. I feel like you're praising me, but they're not getting praised. Yes. You're praising me. The kindness of it. Yes. You're very sensitive to the emotions of others, too. Yes, but I'm not inclusive. Like I don't want to... Yeah. I'm not going to just... Here's the thing. I'm not going to say, "Christa, you did really good, and I mean it," right? But then I don't have much for Wes, so I'm going to be like, "Wes, you're really good at this." See, to me, complimenting everyone is not the win, right? Because Wes will know, "Well, Brad doesn't really know. He just said he had to make me happy." Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I do feel bad about that when I'm getting praised in front of people. I'm like, "Ugh." Yeah. I don't get a lot of praise. Listeners, I don't get a lot of praise. That's why I bring Krista on. So you're now going to come on once a month. They did a good job. We're one-on-one here and with others, and we do know you did a good job, and you are doing a good job. So, but I hear you that just like your kindness to others is like making you feel bad for them if you're getting praised, which is very humble, and that's good. Yeah. That's what God said. But I need my very humble bragging on my life saying, "You're in my car there. She would be mad at that." Yeah, but that's okay. Because that's really good for her to know that you love that about her. Even as much as you said, I struggle with the tension of how hard that is on me emotionally. Because there's a bunch of feelings I have, but at the end of the day, I'm really proud of that. Like, that's really good for you to say, because that's very real. Every listener can relate with that story, and at the end of that, we're all moved by your wife's, you know. Yeah, because I probably wouldn't have done it. I'd have been like, "No, let's get some cash," and that's my struggle, right? Correct. That's me. Like, "Oh, my gosh." Yeah. But nobody would have done that for me. That's the victim of it. Right. Right. And so she makes you a better person. I love it. She does. Because when we first met, that was me. Like, "Well, I call myself the tit for tat guy. Well, if they're gonna do this, I need that." Yeah. I need not to do that by her actions, which I love. Wow. Is she a type two or nine? Did you tell me? Or did she not know her type? She took her test. Let me text her and ask her really fast, because I told her to take the test, and I forgot that. Oh, yeah. She was two or nine. What do you think, and what was your score on the test? I'm on the test. I'm testing my beautiful bride right now to ask her. Hopefully I hear her talking outside the room, but I don't know. Yes. I might hear you. She might not be at her phone. Yeah. She does. Yeah. If not, I'll send you. I'll send you that. Twos and nines are generous. It doesn't mean other people can't be. My husband's a one with a two wing. We call it a wing when you kind of almost have that one next to you. And he is very generous, but I'm thinking two in that way. And then the nine is very useful and comforting. I don't know if she's a peacemaker. She is. And she is also, yeah, she always, she likes to be the martyr. So she'll take the, she would rather you be blessed than her. But that's a good thing. Yeah. You know, she's like, I'd rather Krista get, get that free, free gift than our family take that free gift. Yeah. Whereas I'd be like, give me that free gift. Let's go. You guys kind of balance each other out. Yeah. It's a good bounce. I was going to, I was going to say one more thing, but I've lost my train thought on it. But you didn't know you're going to start coming here once I'm allowed to any of your Grammy. Right. Oh, yeah. They love it. Krista, I will, I won't everybody to follow you. Just listening. Please, you're, you're missing out if you're not and to follow her podcast, like and subscribe to it. It's a great, you need to do that. She's great. So much for, for blessing me and our listeners with this crazy chat. And um. It was fun. Don't be a stranger. You're now a friend of mine. I consider you a friend now. So. You too. Yes. Aaron was right. You're great. Aw. Thank you, Aaron, for the shout out and also thank you Brad. This was fun. I don't get to hang with sevens that much. And when I do, it's always hilarious and this was no different. In fact, loving that you also brought your faith into it that we share and just your beautiful marriage. I'm so happy to get to know you too. Thanks for having me on and thank you to your audience. Thank you, Krista. And please come back anytime you want to come on and promote anything. You're always welcome. You have a VIP pass now. Awesome. Thank you, Brad and tell me her type when you get it on it. See if she responded. Hold on. Let's see if she responded. No. Okay. She did. She's too busy helping somebody. She did. I'll tell you, when we stop recording, stay on the air. I'm going to get up and go ask her and I'll tell you. Oh, okay. Okay. Perfect. Thank you for listening, guys. And we'll see you next time. Well, I hope you enjoyed that riveting conversation about integrant integrams. That's an integrant. Any of grams with Krista Harden, the expert, she is now the work advice. Hope casting network, any of gram expert. That's a lot to say. Try saying that in the car right now, when you listen to that. Hope casting network, work advice, hope casting network, any of gram expert. Boom. I did it. I know it's pretty cool. Don't forget, like and subscribe. Follow us on the it. You got a question. The slide of those DMs. Let us know. And thank you, Hope cast, for making this possible. Yeah. For work advice for me, I'm just happy. That's not wrong. I think I did. This is work advice for me. My name is Brad, and I'll catch you on the flipside. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Yeah. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Okay, I know I just interrupted a great conversation, but my name is Brad. And you may be listening to me or any of the other talent we have on this network at Hope cast. We want to thank you for listening, but also, we want you to like and subscribe to the show you're listening to. So, when you're done listening, go on the iTunes or the Spotify and leave a great review if you like it and follow the show on Instagram and any other platforms that it's on. I think we're on TikTok. So follow us on TikTok, but make sure you leave us a review. We love good reviews here at the Hope cast network. Now, I guess I'll let you get back to your show. I hate to interrupt what you're doing now, but something very important I need to let you know about. When you purchase serious coffee beans, we want you to try to enjoy each brew for two reasons. Number one, because you're a part of something bigger, making a positive impact around the world, and number two, because we did not compromise on the quality of coffee, you're drinking some of the best coffee in the world. 100% of profits are done into nonprofits that are fighting injustice facing humans around the world. Well, that's powerful. Generous is best known for especially coffee, but the heartbeat of generous is their hope to use for profit business for good. In 2024, generous is hoping to provide coffee to churches around the US to spread a message within congregations that churches care about people even down to the coffee they are serving and the people they enjoy. I apologize for that extremely long run on sentence. If you have interest in hearing more about generous coffee, please reach out to their founder, Ben Higgins, at binhiggins@generancemovement.com. Thank you, and back to our scheduled podcast. Thank you. [BLANK_AUDIO]
