[MUSIC] >> John of Broad Announce, from Zurich, Ben's League, Switzerland, from US program, Austin Matthews. [MUSIC] >> Had a great chance of two, least back quickly. >> There's a new member of the 60 gold club and Austin Matthews is the first leap ever to go 0 to 60 in a single season. He later whipped it across, Riley, Barnard, and now scores. >> Austin Matthews has 69. >> Look at me, sure, look at me, sure, and the captain now. >> I like to think it went a little more like, look at me, look at me. You're the captain now, John Tavares saying to Austin Matthews, yes, it's a new era in Leafland. One that I think we all thought was certainly in the cards, if not a certainty at some point in time. I don't know, it's always interesting when these things happen, John Tavares capitulating the captaincy. That will be my terminology for it. You'll hear a lot of being stripped to the sea talk today, but I'm far too good of a mood for that. >> It's a fan morning show, we're going to talk to Gord Stellick who I always love chatting with. I got to be honest, me and Gordo, we've had a lot of conversation about the Leafs over the years. >> Just a few. >> They've been very, what's the word I'm looking for, similar. It's nice to have something new to talk about here in terms of the Leafs, so yeah, a little breaking news. We got it last night, the big announcement comes tomorrow. We were talking about this to wrap up the six o'clock hour, so if you're listening on pod, you can go get about three minutes of this conversation on the last hour of the first one, but you should have been listening to the whole show anyways. >> I'll dare you if you want. >> Exactly. What do the letters look like again for the uninitiated, and boy, what a day to join the sports world if you are uninitiated in these things. For the uninitiated, John Tavares, since the 1920 season when he skated out for the home opener wearing the sea on his chest, has been the Leafs captain, Morgan Riley, even longer than that, has worn an A for this team, Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner have typically shared their A. Now, there have been some instances with Matthews hurt, whether it's not always the case or Marner out or whatever, but generally speaking, that's the way things have gone. This leads to a natural question, who has letters on their sweater this year, and who should. So let me posit it to you this way, make it super difficult for you at 703 on a Tuesday morning market. >> I'll dare you. Mitch, your Craig Baroobay, you're the ultimate decider. You can't change the captaincy, the Leafs have made up their mind and based on everything you've said today, I don't think you would. So Matthews is the captain who gets the other two A's, and is there any sharing situation going on in your world? Not what, not what is the best thing to, or not what will happen, but what you think would be the best course of action. >> I don't like the sharing thing, I've never liked the sharing thing. Even in minor hockey, I thought it was kind of foolish. I myself was a captain a lot, and so. >> Not to brag. >> No. >> Where's that leadership in here? I feel like there's a lot of like. >> Whatever you want guns. >> This isn't my show. >> Okay. >> It's my show. Take control. It's actually quite bad. Anyway, point being is this, you said it. There's so many little caveats to all of this. Like if Mitch Marner signs long term, then he probably has an A. >> Are you of the belief that that can still happen like anytime soon? >> No, I still don't think, I think it's more of a knee lander situation than a signs within the next two weeks or before training camp. >> This is when we got our Matthews deal. Last year, I forget what the exact date was, it was super early September, if not super late August. It's right around the start of camp, but camp hadn't quite begun, if that was my remember. >> Based on the things that I've heard, I think Marner's camp is looking for something that would even make you an eye blush, I'll be like, I don't know about that. But. >> So August 23rd, last year's on the Matthews deal, came down for what it's worth. So I'm of the belief that John Tavares gets an A, Morgan Riley, I already said is a lock for an A, and I think it stays like that. I don't think that there is a need for Mitch Marner to have an A. >> I just don't. >> Okay, so I can understand that, and I'm not blind to that. I don't have an issue with that. I look at it from the, I forget what the name of the oath is, but whatever oath it is, doctors take of like, first things first, do no harm. >> And then you get a crack oath, okay. >> I probably got that wrong, by the way. >> No, no, I think that sounds right. So good job by you, maybe. I operate from that stance forward, okay? >> If you're not going to, if you were not going to spend the whole summer playing dirty pool with Mitch Marner, trying to make him look as bad as you possibly could, I do not see the point of starting the season, because you say what you will about John Tavares, we could have a semantic argument of, well, he didn't get stripped, he really handed it over to someone more deserving, and honestly, that's so much different. We can have that argument. If Mitch Marner is not wearing a letter for your team next year, there's no other way to spin it. That he flat out, got stripped, there's just no other way to spin it. And I can understand the idea of Boruba coming in, it's his team, and he's going to run a tough, a tough locker room, and that's going to be the way it goes, okay, I don't begrudge him that. I also think you don't want to give yourself a 14 alarm fire to put out the second the season begins, and that's what this would be. There's just no way that this wouldn't become a complete firestorm. Marner has to answer questions about it. You have to, because let's be honest, we know what his honest opinion would be on it. I don't think I did anything wrong as a leader. I'm not saying the team hasn't had areas to grow, but I don't think it's my fault that we haven't gotten there. How dare you take Bayet from me is probably how he would actually feel about it. Then you ask him to kind of toe the company line. He's going to get asked about it at camp every single day for a week or something along those lines. If some leadership issue pots up with the team, would it be any different with Marner? I just think, I don't think there's an issue with the way you're putting it to go about it. I just think the simplest, easiest course of action is like, hey, John, you want to play ball? It sucks. I know you're really playing ball here, and it's Marner gets his A, gets to keep it, Riley gets to keep his, and John Tavares, you are the world's highest paid and most respected non-letter wearer in the league. Here's where I'll push back on that. The easy decision, I think that this was an easier decision for the least to make Austin Matthews a captain and have John Tavares relinquish it. I think that's an easier decision. The decision to take a letter away from Mitch Marner is not an easy one, but I think it's part of the, this is the change, we're talking about a clean slate here. New coach, the GM has been here for a year, there's a new president in here, MLSE. I think that this is just the decision that needs to be made, not for the sake of change, but for the sake of this has not worked. We need to do something different, and I don't know what Mitch Marner's role is in the room. I know somebody has already texted us and said, what a very important conversation, definitely going to make a difference in the playoffs. You and I both don't know that and text her from wherever also doesn't know that. But the point being is that whatever they have done to this point in this era of Tavares and Matthews and Neelan or Marner has not worked. So something has to change. If it's just the captaincy, I'm fine with that, but I'm also fine with it if they want to change other things around as well. I think it's part of the, I think there is something to be said about the leadership group and who's looking up to who, and I think that when guys have letters on their jersey, maybe it's Chris Tannoff. Sure. I don't know the answer. No, no, that's a fair end, buddy. Maybe it is. Does that not feel like a guy Craig Baroube would love to slap a letter on his chest? One hundred percent. So if that's what it is, and I'm not saying that Chris Tannoff is going to get an A, but what I'm saying is, is that we shouldn't get caught up in, well, we don't want to ruffle Mitch Marner's feathers. Mitch Marner's feathers are already ruffled because he doesn't have an extension. So I'm not concerned about that. What I'm concerned about is, is the leadership group that is in place the right one. And I believe that Mitch Marner not having a letter is fine. I don't think that's an issue because you're going to get the best out of Mitch Marner regardless of what he's wearing on his jersey because he's playing for money. Yeah, I think it's one of these questions that I don't think there is a super simple answer to correct the simplest course of action will be to keep things status quo. But I don't think anybody wants to hear that regarding the Toronto Maple Leafs anymore. Things not exactly status quo, of course, Matthews, not officially, but will be named team captain in the coming days here. And who better to talk about it with than a guy who I've had plenty of conversations about both Leafs, captaincy and Austin Matthews. Ford Stella, sports net five, nine of the fan analyst and insider, former Leafs GM and Rangers GM co-host of NHL morning skate on Sirius XM and doing the Lord's work working with Damien Cox because somebody has to co-author the book revival. Gord, thanks so much for jumping on this morning. How are you doing? I'm good, Brett. Matt. Yeah, just the Olympics and then we get a little nugget of hockey news. So yeah, so that's kind of nice. It's funny. I made the analogy yesterday that I could find things to talk about regarding hockey at this time of year, but it's really like panning for gold in the river. It's like, oh, a little flake here. Look at that. And lo and behold, I found like a gold mine. There's a big nugget of this Leafs captaincy news. It is very, very welcome in these parts here. I don't want to lead you one way or another. What was your first-plus reaction to this surprise saw it happening? What would you make of the news and the timing of it? I would say, well, first, yeah, it's funny, the timing of it. I think, you know, we've run out talking about as much as we loved our Olympic athletes about how we can get our kids into hammer throw or break dancing, you know, or something that it becomes. I just want to, I hope they have a seniors division for breaking gourd because I think I think you could do it. Couple of cocktails needed, but I think you have it in you. I think I have one more kick at it too. I agree. I, you know, it's, I got to give John Savera a lot of credit is what I thought. And you know, I look at last year, the guy went over and played well for Team Canada. Like he went over at a more advanced age and captain that team and you know, they really had a, in the world, in the world championships and, and they had a real solid run. I know the old one game elimination at the wrong time came into play, but I, that, that's the part that really hit me was, you know what, because we talked about this many times, Brandon Matt. And I just always thought, okay, you can't embarrass in my opinion, John Savera, he's got one more year left. I mean, he's the one that came here. He, he has incurred the wrath forever from the New York Islander fans for coming here and on and on and on, you know, but, but at some point, I know the Toronto Maple Leafs side is saying, well, look at Conor McDavid and the Edmonton owners getting to the Stanley Cup final. And it's not that who or the C has been responsible for what's happened in the playoffs for so many years. It's just that Austin Matthews is reupt this is his team. It's showtime. Someone's got to come up big in the playoffs. We've got to be talking about Mitch Marner or Austin Matthews or John Tavares or Morgan Riley or whomever about being in the Smith Trophy race in the playoffs, you know, all these kinds of things. So, you know, it just that if this, if this even factors in a little bit, just sort of saying, Austin, you know, this is it, you're, you're the guy, you're the leader, you're wearing the C, it's time. I was all for that. And I thought it would take a year to happen. But like I said, good on John Tavares for being a consummate professional and team guy for, you know, just kind of also, I think it takes some pressure off him. I think it takes some pressure off him. But Brent has answered your question. That was my first, that was my first reaction. I thought, man, what a solid team move by John Tavares. So when we look at this decision, how much do you believe this was Brad for living and how much do you believe was influenced by Craig Burubay? Because Brad for living's been here just over a year, Craig Burubay just got here. But I guess the timing of it for me is, you know, the fact that it wasn't done in July, the fact that it was done in August before training camp, it kind of does feel like Craig Burubay at least had some say in this after maybe having conversations with guys sitting down meeting with them that he wanted Austin Matthews to be, you know, the captain of his team. Or do you think that this was solely a or largely a Brad for living decision? I would think the latter, you know, I mean, I just think, and you know, keep in mind, these discussions, it's not like one day you get called in and you're talking about, you know, here's an idea about if you would relinquish the sea and, you know, what have you. I mean, there's ongoing dialogue. I think, I think Craig Burubay's just trying to get to know everybody, familiarize himself with the situation. So I would think that's probably part of healthy dialogue going on and something, you know, Brad for living presenting, I don't believe John Tavares would have brought it up himself. I don't know. I don't know what happened behind the scene. I don't really care whether it's July or August, you know, you kind of, July, you kind of park it, you know what I mean? You kind of park things for a while and start getting back. I can always remember after whether you want to call it the Civic holiday or Simco Day weekend, whatever it is, we kind of got up and running. I think that's still the case more nowadays. So however it played out, I think it's played out well, and I would have to think that, you know, Brad, you're living in discussions with Tavares, that probably was the focal planet. Well, Brendan Shanahan gets involved because, you know, he was involved. You remember that when Kyle Dubas was GM and they kind of surprised John Tavares and his family was there and his wife and young kids had a sea or young, I think, one son at that point, you know, wearing the sea and all that. So, you know, maybe possibly Brendan Shannon got involved too. I wouldn't doubt it. Yeah, certainly it's certainly possible there, and, you know, quite honestly, if you're Shanahan, I think you'd want to still be at the very least scene to be having a conversation in this. It seems like the tenor atop MLSE, I mean, we know his contract situation, so you'd certainly want to think he'd be a part of that. You know, in terms of not embarrassing Tavares, it's funny. This wasn't where my mind went first, but just didn't have any conversations with people. It seemed to be where a lot of other people's minds went of, okay, so what happens with the rest of the letters here? It'd be too embarrassing to John Tavares to go from captain to nothing, because if you want to talk about ruffling feathers, I mean, there's a world where now Mitch Marner is still sharing an A, even the guy he once shared it with is not having it. You know, Marquesi throughout the possibility of boy, doesn't Kristana feel like somebody who's part of a team's leadership group there? Maybe it doesn't matter, and that's your answer to the question, but what do you think the rest of the letters kind of shake out on this team, like Gord? Well, first, you know, Matt referencing, the leadership group is huge. I mean, there's not just one individual, and if you're part of a leadership group and it's predicated on having to have a numeral or a letter on your jury, well then you're not. If you're kind of saying, well, I'm going to be a good leader, but if I'm not wearing an A, I'm going to be a big sock. So I don't, I think all those veterans and all those guys that have natural leadership skills, and you find more and more of bringing in character and bringing in leadership and how much those intangibles come into play. Toronto's a different animal, and it's one thing in San Jose, you think about guys like Joe Horton that lost the A, but you know, certainly have retired as lifelong San Jose shark players. I mean, the A got moved around a little bit there yesterday, Scott Morrison's tournament in memory of his daughter, Kathy, it's I think year number 16 it was, and Rick Vive was there helping out. And of course, you know, it's funny, it's always synonymous about him wearing the C and then not wearing the C on top of being a three time 50 goal score. So it's really is a different animal and profile here in Toronto. I think the big part was it had to be handled right. And I think in this case, it got handled right and I, you know, and, and but to have taken it away from him, yeah, you know, I can't speak for John Tavares, but if he didn't want to give it up and you took it away from him, I would, I would, I think that would be kind of raw. It's kind of a weird thing to say or ask, but when you look at the, what Austin Matthews is accomplished on the ice as a player, he's already, you know, asserted himself as one of the greatest Maple Leafs of all time and his career is far from being written. But this being named the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs take it to take his, you know, legacy to another level like you, Boris Alming was one of the greatest leagues of all time. He never was, he didn't want it after Darryl Sitler had it stripped by Harold Ballard. But other than that, when you look at the greatest Leafs of all time, 95% of them have been the captain of this team. Does that change anything for Austin Matthews in this legacy? Yeah. Well, one thing kind of a little bit history. So Darryl Sitler's gripe was with punch him, like back then, but anyway, that's one time ago, you know, my time, Gordo, I'm, I'm not, I'm not here as a defense lawyer for Harold Ballard, but he's the guy that's throwing everything, but the billable hours could have been good. That's all I'd say, Gordon. Well, they would have been good. Yeah. I'm sure Miller Thompson, Cedric Lewis and Healy made good billable hours all those years back then. Uh, you know, Boria said to me a few times he, he, he, um, um, he regretted not wearing the seat. He looked back at it and you're right. There were many times that he was the logical guy and, uh, and he, he looks back and he regrets that everybody else, uh, had what, with your Doug Gilmore or Wendell Clark when you, when you got your time, Matt Sundine, there, there is something about it. I mean, to go back with George Armstrong, Dave Keon and, you know, on and on and on and on. It is, it is. So I, I do think, uh, even though it's different now than it was decades ago, you know, guys, but there, there, there, there is, there is something special about it. And there is something special about being, then you do an original six team, it's special. And you do the two Canadian based teams, I mean, original six teams and it's special. And so yeah, I, I, I think it matters. I do think it matters. I do think, um, it makes things that you, for want to be better, we're a little bit more complete for Austin Matthews legacy here in Toronto, whatever it will be. And hopefully it's many, many, many more years. Yeah. This is a question for like them to sort out, uh, down, down there in America, but it'd be a little weird if he was captaining the, the American team at the four nations face off and wasn't the captain of his own NHL team. I was saying that would have been a, a little weird there. We're going to get this announcement tomorrow. I just went back and looked at the press release. So they have like where the place who? And it just says Toronto Maple Leafs. I could envision a lot of different people being up on the dais there. I could see it being tri living and baroobay and Matthews. I could see John Tavares being there to kind of like, Hey, let's get this over with. Ask me any questions you want to. I could see Shanahan being up there. How much do you read into who is up there at the, at the announcement when it, when it's made tomorrow? Zero. I think he's probably would be up there too, because he wants, you know, everybody, everyone, you know, wants their profile out there for sure. It should be. Yeah. I mean, United, we stand. This is a great decision. There's a camaraderie here. They're the leadership group off the ice. Uh, I, I think that would be great if John Tavares was there as all as well. I, I'm more, you know, and again, you know, down the road, we're more interested. Are we going deeper in the playoffs and our people standing there with positive post playoff kind of press conferences and months, months down the road? So I guess maybe it's, it is kind of a sign. Like I said, we're sort of slowly getting back to business as usual, but, and let's, you gotta do the talking on the ice in the dresser, you might have to think that Austin and Matthews has shown, you know, about worthy of being a captain. I mean, sometimes the wrong guy just because he's the best player wears the C and that's not always the case. But you know, you know, brand you and I've talked about it many times, Matt, you and I've talked about it many times, even when I was fortunate to be executive for so many years with the leaps in New York Rangers and that, that the dressing room was real. It's the most real place as far as who are the real leaders, how, how does it resonate with the players? It's not stuff they share outside and, and, and I got to think they're putting up, they put their finger on what's real in the dressing room, that there's a tremendous around respect for John Siberis, but also that, you know what, it's time Austin's the guy, what he was going, you know, going for 70 goals last year, he's done everything you can, your heart trophy, rookie of the year, you name it, and let's, let's get that piece in a year early because right now we're one or two or three years, four years too late as far as having some kind of playoff success. So whatever, whatever, whatever little things that they matter or not, let's get at it. Yeah, I, I wholeheartedly agree and I'll just leave you with this thought, uh, Gordon, well, I, you're leaving, I'm going to keep doing my show, uh, but I'll leave you with this thought that say what you will. And I know you and I both have plenty of good things, say about John Tavares and the Captain Sea. There are also the detractors among it, uh, he is, he has still scored far and away the biggest goal of this Leafs era and if anyone on the team wants to surpass him and score a bigger one, I, uh, I lay down the gauntlet to them because boy, I'd love to see it. And I think that's kind of the lasting thing I'll think about with Tavares' Captain Sea is it was a little weird, it didn't go exactly the way we wanted to, but when the chips were down, he still scored the one goal that mattered more than any, getting them over the, uh, the hump that was a lightning. Yeah, good point. Good point. And that's why next year, at this time, we're just, you know, all summer long, like let's, let's be talking about whether it's whoever, great playoffs. We, we've not had one year of that, one of any of them, we've talked of superlatives of how they play on the regular season and deservedly so, but you know, and instead of Mitch Marner's contract, who should be captain, all these other things, will he and he landed with a new deal, you know, let's, let's be talking and, you know, hopefully this is the case. It's been too long coming and then you're hoping as well at some point, uh, you're preventing taken to step back, like say the Toronto Blue Jays have done as far as, you know, playoff success. You're talking about not even making the playoffs anymore, no, the Leafs don't seem to be anywhere close to that right now, but, you know, that would be a terrible reality to start getting back there without any kind of playoff success. So let's hope that's not the case. But I don't think it's the case at all. Yeah, I don't either, uh, please, please, please, the only conversation about Mitch Marner's contract I want to be having is that he's owed like $37 million a year after his 100 point playoff coming up, but I don't know. That seems like a stretch. Gord, uh, love, love, love. Get you on. Thanks so much, man. See you guys. Take care. There goes, uh, Gord Stellik. Again, check out the book revival, the chaotic and colorful journey of the 77 78 Toronto Maple Leafs wrote it alongside Damien Cox, sorry, that's to both guys having to work with one another. It's just like tough, you know, friends to show both, but, you know, powerful personalities. Uh, I love getting Stellik's take on it. It's always good from somebody who's been, you know, around the game and as many facets as he has leaf historian for sure. He's seen a ton of it. Yeah. And I do think it's one of these things that feels massive in the moment and it absolutely is. I also think it's one of those things that by the fifth game of the season, it's going to fail. It's going to feel like he was born with the sea on his sweater, like it won't look odd at all, I don't think. Yeah, I don't think they're, I do feel like, you know, us doing this job, we're reacting in the moment and I don't necessarily think that it's kind of sunk in that this is going to be, you know, the guy wearing the sea for the foreseeable future. But it's also something that doesn't happen very often. Like you don't get changes at captaincy all that often. And I think that that's something that, you know, you look at and say, hold on, let's take a step back and look at this. This is arguably, you know, not arguably one of the greatest players that's ever played for this organization. And now he's going to be the captain of this team. I don't think that that's insignificant and sometimes we get lost in it. But tomorrow is going to be a big day. And I like Gord's take on, you know, if John Tavares is there and I think you kind of mentioned it as well, like, let's get these questions out of the way. But I think there's also something powerful and people are going to be like, wow, you're going way overboard on this. But I think there's something powerful of the image of John Tavares handing off the matters with the sea on it. And I think that that's. Yeah, the more the more I think about it, he like has to be there. Tavares. I think so. You don't want to go into camp. No one's talked to Tavares in a month and he's no longer the captain of the team. He's at their golf tournament or like, you just don't want that. He wanted to be as clean and, you know, kumbaya is humanly possible, so he'll for sure be up there. And yeah, the more I think about it, like Gord said, who wouldn't want their fingerprints on Austin Matthews being named Leaf Captain? I think it's going to go pretty well to be, to be perfectly honest. So I think that's why you'll see Pelley up there. Wouldn't be shocked if she's shanty up there. Of course, she'll living going to be up there. And of course, this guy has to be up there as well, because it's his team, Craig Brube. Like he's got to be up there as well. Yeah. I think it's going to be. It's going to be a big day. Yeah, big stage. It's going to look like the Brady roast up there with Matthews in the middle, but like don't don't make fun of him and say nothing but good things about him. Fan morning show will continue. We're going to have plenty more on the Matthews stuff. Again, I feel like Marosi, who's going to join us in an attitude here. He's going to. He's going to have to get a going to take in. It won't be quite as bad as when Italy was playing in Euro and I was doing the show with Daniele and the two of them were just like going over spots in Woodbridge to watch the game. He won't get that sidetracked because we do actually have some like Bluetooth stuff we have to talk to him about. Will Wagner, the franchise, what he's here, going through heart league, yeah, going three for four last night in his major league debut. So we'll talk about that with Marosi and again, something tells me he's going to sneak in an opinion or two on the Matthews contract. If you want to weigh in your opinion, we're happy to hear it 59590 on the text line. Please include your name and location, standard message and data rates do apply there, but we'd love, love, love to hear from you. We're halfway through the Matthews Captain edition of the Fan Morning Show on Sports Snap 590 the Fan. Real American, Paul Kogan, but he's ours. Maybe a real American in Austin Matthews, but he's slathered in maple syrup this morning as Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Unofficially, they'll make the announcement tomorrow. Tomorrow? Come on. Let's go. Circle the wagons. Get people back from the cottages today. Although it does give me another day of speculation, so maybe I shouldn't be too mad about it. We will eventually hear from the Leafs confirming the news. We all know that Austin Matthews will be named the team's next captain taking over the reins from John Tavares in Blue Jays land. I won't say there was a taking over of the reins last night, but certainly an exciting new appearance. Will Wagner, stop me if you've heard this before. The son of a major leaker had a nice game for the Blue Jays, did so in his Major League debut. We'll talk to our next guest, who is our insider, brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus where you can expect excellence online. And in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus dot com, John Marosi MLB network and host of the road to Cooperstown pod joins us now. John, how you doing on a Tuesday morning? Good morning, my friends. I'm doing outstanding. Thanks for the kind mention of the podcast that Alan Trammel is our next guest in, and I did actually mention to Tramm that I believe that he should have been the MVP back in 1987. I hope that we can all still be friends with all due respect to George Bell. Oh, you know, that, that just awakened a lot of angry uncles in, in Southern Ontario. You know, I spent a lot of time in Windsor right across the border, uh, from, from the Tigers there. And I could tell you, like the Civil War is still a brewing down there. So I don't know, Marosi, like you, you potentially got some new fans with like the people in super Southwestern Ontario who do count themselves Tigers fans, but I don't know, you may want to like stay at a Windsor in Leamington for a little bit. Could be a little dicey for you with, with a comment. All right. Well, I will, I will ask, uh, I will ask for Darren McCarty to intervene on, he's, he's big in Leamington. I was going to say it's, uh, it's a good, it's a good, uh, good defense partner to have there. Not that he played defense, but he could certainly rough somebody up for you if you wanted to. Uh, Blue Jays, uh, we were looking for things to get excited about at this point in time of the year. I think we all after the deadline kind of understood the tenor that this season was going to take, but hey, you, you look at last night, they got a three for four from Will Wagner in his, in his Major League debut, you know, it's funny with baseball, you, you often, when a good thing is happening, you have to, of course, enjoy it, but you also have to remember, uh, weird game three for four really doesn't mean a lot. The grand grand scheme of things, but how can you also not be excited about one of the other pieces that they got at the deadline, uh, coming up and looking like that in his Major League debut. I agree, and certainly there is a spot for him to compete for on this roster for 2025. He's, I think it's important to point out he's not a kid, he's 26. And so he is close right now to the player that he is likely to be in the long term. And as you look at this Jay's roster, uh, Will Wagner, of course, as you know, is primary position is second base, like a few other guys on this team. And I think it's, it's going to be important for the next couple of months here the next six weeks for the Jay's to get some valuable information because I think they've got to make some choices here. The, the, the redundancy on the roster, I think is part of the issue. There's a lot of players, uh, and Wagner is potentially one of them who I would describe as being really good, uh, complimentary players on contending teams. And you can say that Shiner fits in that category. Oh, a number of guys do comment is another one that I think that you're, you're now needing to look and find some answers and, and you saw last night does he know the strikes all well? Yes. Can he, can he really, uh, have some really good bat to ball skills that they have alive bat? Are there some line drives off the bat? Yes. Yes. I mean, all, all those boxes are checked. So now you have to obviously keep it going and roll it forward, uh, and, and see if you can continue doing this and what his role might be. But I, I think that Jay's, if they're being honest with themselves, they need to make some decisions by the end of this season about, about who, who is part of the future and, and whoever's not, they probably need to start, they could trade or some 40 man roster choices, but you need to, to, I think, rebalance this roster a little bit. And I think last night, Will Wagner made a good statement that maybe he belongs as part of the longterm solution for this team. John, when we look at a guy like a, a Will Wagner and, and a, uh, low Perfido and Bloss and all these guys and whoever ends up coming up, you know, to the major league roster that was acquired at the trade deadline, like how many of these guys need to be making some sort of an impact at the major league level in order to call this a successful trade deadline. Because let's call it what it is. They tore this thing down to not quite the studs, but pretty close to it at the major league level. Like how much of, how much of this trade deadline and the success that they have from it will impact the future of a guy like Ross Atkins. Well, it's, it's a really interesting point, Matt. And I look at, at Ross's future in, in this way, that if, if you were going to let him make that many moves, and, and obviously Mark Serpiro just met with the media for the first time in a while, and he talked about the value of, of continuity. If, if you were a J's fan who, who thought that there would be a dramatic change over with this front office, this off season, I, I'm not saying a ton of evidence that that's the case. I, I think that you would have, you would have seen some, some more definitive action, I think, long before right now, to be honest with you, if, if there was going to be a change, I, I think at least. And so I, I think the, the general perspective around the industry is that the J's did well. Low Perfido has not, uh, exactly lit up the major leagues since coming over to the blue J's. But again, it's, it's still early days here for him, uh, and Blas obviously is still in the minor leagues. And then we'll see, hopefully you get to look at the major league level before the season is done. I, I think they, they did pretty well that they brought in some interesting players. I think class A is interesting. I think Macadoo has some value as well. Um, and, and now it's just a matter of, of seeing what this group can do and what they're able to achieve in the minor leagues before the season is done. Maybe some of them play in the fall league, maybe some of them play winter ball and try to get some momentum going, going in the next year. I think there's, you could look at this team, especially since they kept Blatty and say that there is a credible path to being a playoff team in 2025. I, I don't think it's the most likely outcome of all just based on how, how difficult their division is. They've got a long way to go this offseason to make it so. But if there was going to be a change in, in the person that the controls here, I think that would have happened by now. It, it probably should have happened before, if, if you were going to go that route, it would have happened honestly before the trade deadline. But now that you've allowed Ross to make these moves, you allowed them to keep Blatty, which I think is, is a massive decision and maybe didn't feel that way. But I think it, it is a big decision that they've made that they're, they're committed to keeping him for as long as they can, obviously, and, and I think you look to the future and see what you can achieve in the off season. But I, I think if there was going to be a big change, guys, it would have happened by now. Yeah, I, I don't disagree. It certainly seems like the writing is on the wall that way. Does that change your opinion of what will end up happening with Beshette here? Because I can see a world where if it is a, you know, even if it's not a true sea change with Shapiro going, but where it's okay, there's a new general manager in here. He'd say, as good away, the best possible way for me to retweet this thing on the fly is a Bob Beshette trade, I am not beholden to the value he once had because I wasn't here for it. I, I can see a world where they're more emboldened to kind of play it out, how Beshette go into the season in his walk year. What do you think staying the course with this front office would do to the Beshette conversation from this team in the off season? Yeah. It's the next question. That, that's a dilemma. It really is. He's someone that has led the league and hits them back to back years and this year he batted 223. And he's got one year left on his deal. It is, it's, he's had almost in his, at least by his standards, the worst possible season that the worst possible time. Because it just, it makes the whole industry right now is thinking, okay, is, is he going to be the player that he used to be is obviously a very young player to have, have that, have the answer to that question be, be no, but the, you're just wondering about the health now and, and the sort of the, even it is best he's somewhat of a streaky hitter. John, John, can I, can I just jump in here and like add a question on to what you're saying here? Cause I think this is all really important. How short of memories do front offices in baseball have? Because I mean, we all feel that way right now. I just think the farther and farther we get away from it, the track record of, you know, 21 and 22 and 23 is going to, I, I would imagine kind of sway some people versus the, as bad a season as he could quite frankly have had this year. Well, I mean, and there are certainly some front offices that will, that will look to buy low that that's obviously a, a tried and true method in sports as long as sports have been played that you look for, you look for really good players who are coming off of, of four years. And as I do think that there is some, there is some thought that maybe you would still put up, put them out there and see what you can get back for them. I, I just, I look at the big picture here, has he meant has been enough to, to make you feel comfortable with him playing shortstop on an everyday basis or would you, you're a radically trade bow to a team that has some, some good talent in the minor leagues are sort of like right at that shortstop level who's 23, 24 years of age and you bring him in. For example, look at the, the deal that Cleveland made with, with the Mets and, and, and Lindor obviously is, is rebounded and had a really nice year with, with the Mets this season, but they, they probably love the trade they made there because you men as for them has been an all star and Rosario's obviously just got DFA, but he's had some good years too. There, there are, there are certainly some arguments to be made that, that he, that he could still be moved this off season. And the thing that we, that we don't know yet is, is what exactly is the state of the relationship between him and the front office and honestly him and his teammates. Because I go back to right before he got hurt again, he, he told Hazel made that he would, he wouldn't have been surprised if he got traded and, and it takes, you know, this guy's a core player on this team and, and it takes a lot to articulate those words on the record. I think in the middle of a disappointing season and you wonder what, what's in the back story there that would suggest that there's, that he, that he got that headspace where he said that and, and acknowledge that, that he would, that would not be surprised if he got traded. I, I just think that there had to be something going on in terms of the harmony of him with, with the organization, whether it's, whether it's frustration about a contract or relationships in the clubhouse, stuff that we're not privy to, that just to me stood out and I just said, wow, that like bookmarked that quote and circled back to it later because that, that just said to me that, that all is not well, in my opinion. And, and so I, I think that if, if at that point in time, if there were some behind the scenes stuff between him and the front office, they'd listen guys, I think it's best that I move on, let's pursue a trade. None of that would surprise you based on what he said. And based on just kind of the general, I think lack of, of, of, of, of, of joy, let's say in his season this year, I would describe that. I mean, again, there could have been a variety of reasons for it. Who knows what it was. It just didn't seem like he was 11, 20, 24. And, and I don't, I don't know the reasons for it. Couldn't speculate on it, but I, that's just what I, what I see. And, and I changed the scenery. If he's playing for the Dodgers, playing for the Cubs, there's a different market, different ballpark, different scene. Is it a better situation? Who knows? But I, I do think there are probably some teams out there, to your point, Brent, that would look at what he's done in the past and said, you know what, I see, I see a path to getting better. And, and it would, it would not surprise you, but it's going to get tough trade to make when, when that's your platform year, so to speak. The other thing with all of this, John, is, and, and, you know, talking about a trade, or if, if they decide to walk him to free agency, like, I can see why Bo Bechet does not want to sign an extension here or anywhere else, for that matter. Here, I get it for a multitude of reasons. One, it feels like they kind of just hit their ceiling, and that was their plateau, and they haven't been able to get over that hump. And this year has obviously been, but frankly, a disaster. But from his perspective, playing a premium position, getting to free agency at the age that he is going to be, the door, there are so many doors that are open, because people will move guys around. They will pay up for a shortstop who has the, the talent level that he does, especially with the bat, more so obviously the bat than he does with the glove. But there's so much value in that that I can see why, unless the J's back up the Brinks truck for him and say, we're going to give you a 35 million a season, like, I can see why Bo Bechet walks the free agency and is totally fine with that because there are more, there are more suitors for him. And he's got the opportunity to really bank on this free agency at the age that he is. Like, I don't fault Bo Bechet for any of this right now. Right. Well, and I think to your point, the chances of him signing an extension right now, I would say are minimal. Pretty close to zero. I'm just being honest. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, because, because why, why would you coming off of literally the worst season you could have imagined having? You get hurt and you have a bad, bad numbers on top of that. So there's just no incentive at all for him to sign this office. I just, I would be stunned, completely stunned if he, if he did not, if he signed a deal, this office, I just, I just don't see it. And I think that, so there's like two outcomes here. Either number one, he huddles up and says, listen, okay, I've been around this game since I was a baby. I know how this works. I know that if I go out there in 2025 and win a batting title or just have a good year and rack up a bunch of hits, I'm going to make a ton of money. And so even if he wasn't totally happy with the way things are going this year, you're a professional, you put that aside and say, I'm just going to handle that. My job is to go up there and get two bases tonight and string a bunch of those nights together and make a whole ton of money. I mean, like, that's just, that's it. That's what's in front of them right now. And similarly, the J is it just, if you've got X number of dollars to spend and Blatty is clearly in harmony, doing great, like, like how completely crazy would it be to say, yeah, Vlad, you're doing awesome. We're going to go sign Bo, the guy that just was injured for half the year. It just, it just, it just, none of it makes sense there either. So I just think, and to make the point about, you know, I touched on the dodge of the moment ago, I think it's, it's worth mentioning here, they would, so they've got Mookie back this week. He's playing the outfield again. They have had five different players start at shortstop, three of whom have started at shortstop in the last, basically last month or so. And, and so they're looking for who their shortstop's going to be. They have no idea. And I think that when you look at that situation, obviously the, the, the J's and Dodge got together on a, on a big deal, which was somewhat unique. And I'm not going to say that they're frequent trading partners, but you could see that conversation easily happening, happening in the offseason. I just, I think that they don't know who their shortstop in the future is going to be. It would be at least worth their while to take a look at Bo for, for a season and see how it goes. I tend to think that he would have a very good season out there, just based on the lineup, based on everything about it. Great place to hit, the weather, all the stuff. I just think that it's, that is one possibility that I think you would put a pin in and revisit potentially in the offseason. Yeah, we, we certainly will. There's been a lot of revisiting with the Blue Jays, like, Hey, I remember the thing we talked about, here we go again, because the season's gone, the way it's gone. John, I'd be remiss if I let you go without letting you gloat, wax poetic, say your piece, quite frankly, about one of your great Americans having a hold of the captaincy for our Toronto Maple Leafs and Austin Matthews. Well, I think it was the right decision at the right time, honestly, especially if, from a hockey perspective, that my quick thought is, if you weren't going to change much of the roster, or at least much of the core, which the obviously they didn't, then then at least change maybe the dynamic within the core. And maybe you get a better version of Tavares from this decision. Obviously the sharks, that was years ago, the case with them and it seemed like it worked out quite well, actually, for the sharks without things went with thorns all those years ago. So I think you might get a better version of Tavares and Austin has honestly earned it. You think about the universe of certainly talking about from an American perspective, the universe of American players who have put together 100 point seasons for original 16s is not necessarily a very long list multiple times, which is what Austin has done. And I think too, it's a, you know, again, from a US perspective, it's a moment of, I think, of success and triumph oddly enough for the Arizona hockey franchise, because none of this happens without them. And in the summer in which they are no longer around, a player that is playing this game because of Danny Breyer and Shane Donne and meeting those guys at practices and falling in love with the game in Scottsdale to a dad from California and a mom from Mexico, it's a pretty powerful story. And I've made this point before that when Team USA announced their first six players for the four nations coming up, you had a Nika Raglan, American general manager and Bill Guerin naming a Mexican American superstar and Austin Matthews. So it's a pretty cool, I mean, when you think about growing the game, and whatever Austin does think that are special, which is quite often, I always reflect and say it's pretty amazing that we've got a guy from Scottsdale who's doing this stuff for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Like, it's honestly, it's a proud moment for I think a lot of us. And I think he's going to do great. I think you're going to get a better version, I believe, of 34 from this happening. And I think the Leafs have good things ahead in the 24/25 season. You hear that, Gary? Mission accomplished in Arizona. You did it? You got it? We'll be able to say that from now until forever. Anybody that would have, that team should have been in Quebec or Winnipeg for all, I mean, yeah, I mean, you could argue that point. And then Gary would say, you would not, you would not have Austin Matthews. That's an absolute fact, you would not have Austin Matthews. And quite frankly, not a world I want to live in. I like having Austin Matthews. Boy, I'll like it a little less, four nations face off, then I'll be going, maybe rest would be better for you. But yeah, it'll be fun to watch him this you were in the sea. And I wouldn't be surprised if he was wearing it for the for the US today when we see him in February. John really enjoyed the chat this morning. Thanks so much for jumping on. Thanks so much. That's going to be a fun team. How many to chuck? How many uses? It's going to be a lot of fun to see that team play. All of them. All of them is the answer for both, I think. Yeah, there he goes. Jabberosi, MLB network host of the road to Cooperstown pod. That insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the show room, visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. Yeah, all eyes on the four nations face off. I cannot wait for that. I'm so excited to get best on best back. Obviously, all eyes on Austin Matthews and the Leafs today. And believe it or not, even in August, that leads us to the Wakenrake presented by Sports Interaction, your home grow and sports book 19 plus bet responsibly. Now, normally Jeff has a party does my homework for me here. And he did. But I went did my own homework. I wouldn't dug these numbers up from Sports Interaction myself. Here's just some Matthews and some Leafs numbers for you. So Leafs, total on points for the year, 100 and a half, the over minus 120, the under minus 110. I like the over the leaf floor has been a 100 point team. That's what they're going to be. Again, I think if there's even a step back a little bit, I still think this team finds a way to be elite because quite frankly, they got a elite that they have a lot of elite on it. Yeah, I'm going to go with that as well. I look at when you look at the rest of the division, like, I don't think the Detroit's very good. I think Buffalo is kind of the same, even though the Leafs are struggling against the Buffalo Sabres, especially in Buffalo. But I think that Florida takes a step back to Boston as well. Yeah, I'm going, I'm going with the Leafs. I'll take the Leafs over Leafs, Leafs second best odds to win the Atlantic as well. So you can get a little value there. If that's what you like, Matthews, this is all you need to know about him minus 115 to win the rocket. I won't be taking that, not a lot of value there. But I also think that's exactly how you have to set the line until he proves otherwise he starts the year as the favorite there. If you do want some value on Matthews, this where you got to get it, the heart plus 1000 there. So 10 to 1, I think if you expect him to have a big year, everybody seems to have got there. So you're all out of the way. You could take a look at that as well. And then they've set the line on Matthews total points 102.5. I would take the under there. I could see him taking a little bit of a step back from a total kind of production standpoint. And then we all get to hear this divisorment story 10,000 times. That was the Wakenrake Presented by Sports Interaction. Your homegrown sports book in 19 plus bet responsibly. This will shock you. The hockey talk's going to continue next. Frank cerebelli on the other side. Fan morning show continues on Sportsnet 590 the fan.
