[MUSIC] >> At least enter tonight with a 20% chance to win the lottery. The first overall selection in the 2016 NHL draft belongs to the Toronto Maple Leafs. [MUSIC] >> It's gotten a proud announce from Zurich, Men's League, Switzerland, the U.S. program, Austin Matthews. >> The Lander moving in, puts it across the ground, he scores, thank you. >> You are looking at the first player ever to score four goals in an NHL debut. >> For one last rush for the league, seven seconds, here's Kaepernick. Matthews, time winding down, and scores, Austin Matthews with 2.7 seconds remaining at overtime, which the game for the Maple Leafs. >> That is a perfect shot by a spectacular player at a key moment in a tremendously well played hockey game, what a finish by Austin Matthews. And the heart goes to Austin Matthews from the Toronto Maple Leafs. [MUSIC] >> I want to thank the Toronto Maple Leafs from top to bottom, management, ownership, coaches, all the staff. Every single one of my teammates, this doesn't happen to you guys, so thank you. All the fans, Toronto Maple Leafs fans, Leafs Nation, there's nobody like you guys. Agreed, good morning, dog days of summer, what dog days, oh, I'm like a dog, I'm like a pig rolling and you know what this morning, feeling happy as a clam, of course, that was a little walk through the early part of Austin Matthews NHL career. Got some blasts in the past, I heard a little Romanuck in there, a little Kenny Albert, I heard in there, and of course the wonderful Dalsetones of CC. The reason why there's a Matthews montage in the middle of August, well, he is set to take the reins, becoming the latest member of the Leafs, the storied franchise who one day will have success, I hope. Please, to take over the sea from John Tavares, immediate messaging, that John Tavares, a big part of this decision, don't let history write that he wasn't, right gutting, Matt Marchese, fan morning show, Maddie, how you doing on A, it feels like Monday, like it's like, bang, week started again today, but Tuesday morning. It's, I'm good, and not as good as you though, like a little peek behind the curtain here for those listening. I have beaten Gunnar in every day, not by much, not by much, and we're both, like, not here an hour before the show, because it's early. But you were so excited that you beat me in today. I was, I was excited. Now I gotta get up a little bit earlier tomorrow. That's okay. Like, there's no, there's no competition to be had. You could have it. I am the great capitulator when it comes to that race. You could have it. You can come in here. You could turn on the one extra light that you turned on yesterday. And I spent the first block on like, it's too bright. And then I had to turn it on one or two actually. No, there's a TV light in here, which again, I'd why certainly not putting this mug on anytime soon. So don't get me started. The thing I just look at with this Matthew's news is it felt a long time coming. I mean, there's a million different ways we can talk about this, what it means. Could this have happened if there weren't the changes? Is this the big change that we see? What does it change? These are all questions that are going to get answered today. Looking back on the Tavares legacy of it all of what does this change mean for it? But just kind of first blush thoughts. Mine was, what? Okay. I did not see this coming. Generally speaking, you know, it's not that everything in Leafland leaks, I wouldn't say most things do. But the decision of this magnitude, there's a little scuttle butt, a little, you know, gurgling information going around there. And there just hasn't been quite frankly anything. This can't seem to come right out of the blue as we were putting together to show last night. And I was just my first reaction was honestly not that he doesn't deserve it. But I was just shocked. I didn't see it coming quite frankly. Yeah, I didn't. I mean, it was going to be once John Tavares left, it was going to be Austin Matthews getting the seat anyway. I think that's part and parcel of all this for sure. But you mentioned the messaging and John Tavares was a part of this process and John Tavares is okay with this and he understands about what we could call it, what we want. John Tavares was stripped of the captaincy because if you know, whether or not he wanted it, it was probably going to happen. It's just that John Tavares is the nice playing nice in the sandbox. And maybe maybe it's part of John Tavares is saying, okay, I want to stay here even after this year. Maybe this is like the little, you know, all of the extending of the olive branch by John Tavares. But at the end of the day, I think this is the signal. This is Austin Matthews team and it should be. Yeah, and that's what this is all about. And that's, I think you're not wrong. Like, factually, he was stripped of the sea. This was going to happen whether John Tavares wanted to play kumbaya nice about it, you know, sing along to the same tune. Like, that was going to happen regardless. I will quibble a little bit with the, and this is a complete semantic argument of like the stripping. I think you strip somebody of the sea because they don't deserve it anymore. I think this is clear. This is giving it to Matthews. Like they, if Austin Matthews didn't exist, and it was William Neelander and Morgan Riley and Mitch Marner that were the core of this team surrounding John Tavares, I mean, obviously a million things are different in this world. The least would be looking for a top six center, all of these things, but they wouldn't be very good. But I don't think they would look at Tavares and go, we need to rip this off his chest and give it to one of those guys. I think this is about the singular entity that is Austin Matthews. I don't say that as a shot at Morgan Riley. Like, I have had plenty of, you know, Morgan Riley is the real captain of this team conversations. Okay. So like, I don't say that as a shot at Riley, or quite frankly, even at Marner and Neelander, those guys are just not on that level in terms of the, I wouldn't even say the serious, but they just, they don't feel like captains. And I think part of it is that there's been John Tavares here and Austin Matthews carries so much of that mantle and sodas, or sodas, Morgan Riley. So I think that's the only thing I'd say is there's going to be a lot of that today of John Tavares got stripped. And again, like, factually true, he did. Once had it, no longer does, while still being here, while still being here, all those things are true. But I don't think they took it away from him for no reason. If Matthews wasn't here, there's no world in which John Tavares does not ride off into the sunset of this contract, wearing the captain's seat for his last season of it. Yeah. And I think that's fair. I guess my, I guess my point is, this is not something that it's not like John Tavares went to the Toronto Maple Leafs and said, hey, you've got to hand this over to Austin Matthews. Okay, that's fair. This is, this is Brad For Living. And I do wonder, especially with the timing of it, how much Craig Barouba had, because it's kind of a weird thing to say because Craig Barouba literally just got here. And he's had a little bit of time, not nearly as much as a Brendan Shanahan or a Brad For Living to understand, you know, the dynamics of the Leafs locker room. But I do wonder if that was part of this conversation, which is why it is happening in the middle of August as opposed to the middle of July. Yeah, I think the Barouba coming in, I mean, he would have spoke with all the players of consequence. Take that as a shot if he hasn't talked to you, Nick Robertson, had it as one more log on the fire of your, your trade request, the bonfire that you're building there. So he would have spoke with all these guys. I think there is an element of it that, yes, Craig Barouba would have had some say getting to know these guys. I mean, it's his team. He's, you don't bring in a head coach to not help and have a hand in that decision. I also think that it's just so much easier. And without it being Sheldon Keefe, it is a total clean break. You had a clean break at the front office last year, Brendan Shanahan, the guy who has been at the very tippy top of this, he still is. But boy, Keith Belly feels a lot more involved. Brad For Living seems to have, you know, a little bit of a bigger role in the org than maybe it was thought that he was going to. When he first came in as kind of working, it's our hand in hand with Shani, it seems like maybe her living is becoming a little bit of a bigger star in the org. And then you throw in a brand new head coach, everything that's the entire apparatus with the exception of Shanahan that told Brendan, that told John Tavares, you're going to be the captain and this is how it's going to go. They're gone. It's so much easier for this group to have those conversations and it not become a thing. I think everybody in the world sees Craig Burou Bay coming in here and take him one look around and go, Okay, there's my captain right there. Oh, oh, the MVP, 69 goal winners, Selkie trophy forward that wins every matchup we could possibly throw them in. Yeah, the guy who puts team on his back, I think I'll take that is my captain. No one blinks an eye. But if it's like, let's just say traveling was still here and every and most things were the same. But no, no, I'm saying traveling, but it's Sheldon Keith, who is still in charge. It's impossible for him to make the big because what have you been doing for the last two or three years? Austin Matthews has evolved as a player, but this version that he's become now, I mean, he's been pretty close to this guy for the last handful, you know, season or two at the very least. Why didn't you make that call at that point in time? So I just think it had to be if you were going to do it, there were kind of two natural off-ramp points. One was now with the new coach and the other was at the end of this season. And I think that, you know, this gets to much bigger pictures and leafland, but so long as Austin Matthews is alive and well and under contract, there's no such thing as that. Yeah, I'll save that for next year. No, whatever you think you should do, you should probably do it right now. Yeah. And that's what I keep coming back to with this. It's the Pittsburgh Penguins logic. We have Sydney Crosby. We're going to keep doing it every year. And there's a there's a couple of points here. One, how did like it's such a it's such a an interesting thing because Austin Matthews, what he's done on the ice has been remarkable. He's already among the three greatest Leafs of all time. Yep. You could make the case maybe two. Does having him as the captain change that legacy? Like it's you don't have to be the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs in order to be the best player ever. Sure. But when you look at the history of this team in terms of the best players that have played for them, majority of them are captains. Outside of Boris Almond, who didn't want the captain see, once Darryl Sittler left and then they slapped it on Rick five, you can look at Matt Sundine, you can look at Darryl Sittler, you can look at Dave Keon, you can look at Doug Gilmore, you can look at Wendell Clark, you know, all captains. And so does that change it for you or you're already just like, whether you have to see or not, it doesn't matter. He's still one of the greatest leagues ever. Or does that does this take the legacy into an entirely different conversation? It's such a it's such a caveat. And this caveat would have held true for the last version of him. But I think there's a this is like a multiplier almost like he's playing video games. And now that he has the captain, see, it's like everything is two times the score. Yeah. He wore it. Like John Tavares wore it as the captain of this team. But let's be honest, at the end of playoff failures, when we were talking about what happened against the Panthers two years ago, when they finally broke through and won around. Yeah, we talked about Marner, we talked about Neelander, we did all the game five and six stuff, and we talked about Tavares, and does we talked about Austin Matthews having no goals, one goal, whatever it was in that series, he was always going to be the guy that wore it the most even when he came through. Look at the conversations we had about him following this laugh playoff where he played in what three complete games, one single handedly, he won for the team by himself. We all still point the finger at him. So the way I look at this is it wouldn't have changed the legacy. Like if Austin, let's say John Tavares was going to take some, you know, Joe Pavelski three times four or whatever is some team friendly deal and he was going to be the captain for another three seasons and the Leafs had success. Matthews was still going to get his due in that. But I just think that the story we were going to tell if this team now goes on to have success is the switch that flipped when Matthews took over. And I don't know if that's a true thing. I don't know if that's a one percent thing and we make it out to be 20% of the reason. But that is what's at stake for him now is that it was always going, he was always going to get a ton of credit whenever they won. But if they, and you know, I don't know that the team has it this year to do it, but if the stars align in the next two, three seasons for this team, we love a narrative. We love a story and it is going to be you went from the, you know, the stoic captain who doesn't say anything, not like Matthews is Mr. Ra Ra from everything we see to the young upstart American who's winning Hartrophy's and winning Rock. It's every season. It's just going to be such an easy story to tell. So I don't think his legacy would have been hampered if he never wore it. It would have felt a little weird for sure. But I just think that this just, this just allows us to tell an even better kind of narrative story from him. And also it does remove a little bit of the security blanket though of, well, he's not the captain of this team. That's all gone now as well. So this is the third time in Maple Leafs history that. So here's the, here's the, the tweet is from my colleague, Niele Franceski. Fun fact courtesy of sports as that since the least inception in 1917, there have been only two instances in which the team's captaincy has changed hands among active teammates, Jimmy Thompson and Ted Kennedy in 56, 57, Dave Keon and George Armstrong in 69, 70. And you also pointed out before the show, yeah, George Armstrong, last captain to win it. And Dave Keon, of course, like took over, not that it was his fault, but then like, you know, the thawing and the unfawing that had to happen with the, or the freezing and then the thawing that happened with the org there. It's like, wouldn't it be serendipitous Leafs make a captain change? And all of a sudden, all of a sudden the start is just aligned. There was also one other, not active though. So this shouldn't count, but just, I love this type of history stuff. Still apps was the captain from 1940 to 43. He took a couple years off where Bob Davidson got the sea. And why did he take the time off? Then he got it back from 45 to 48. He was, he was fighting in the war. And big dub for him and the rest of the boys in that in said war. So yeah, I do love some leaf history. So I hear some other instances in which the, and I'll use the term stripped of their captaincy replaced as the captain, whatever we want to do. And I think, I think it's, I actually think that's not today, but that's actually a fun segment in and of itself where they replaced or was this a stripping? Because I think there's a little bit of both probably on the list. So we've got, and these are just a few examples. Because there's plenty. Trevor Linden relinquishes the captaincy to Mark Messier with the Canucks in 97. And relinquishes, I like God, Tavares jealous. He's like, why don't we get that in the in the PR? I like having a hand in but relinquish God. Could that, could anything seem more, more of a better teammate to use? And then Trevor Linden ultimately regretted it. And Mark Messier is not very well loved in Vancouver. You can understand it. Like, you know, looking back revisionist history, it's like, I don't know, Mark Messier, the leadership awards literally named after him. Hard not to kind of give up your seat for him. Yeah. Dustin Brown stripped of his captaincy in 2016. I like to think that this happened strictly because of that one picture of him on the internet, where he has the no teeth because he's a hockey player and he's drinking out of the water bottle, but it's pointed upside down. He's just spraying it the wrong way. They saw that picture and they said, mmm, can't be my captain. Patrick Marlowe. This is a this is a really weird one. Yeah. Patrick Marlowe stripped the guitar eventually. Yes, he did. Patrick Marlowe stripped of his captaincy in in favor of Rob Blake, who weren't for one season wild. Then Joe Thornton takes over, who then has it stripped in favor of Joe Pavelski. So that sounds like not our place business to be clear, but that sounds like a lot of offices where guys like, okay, you know, give me the promotion. I get, Oh, God, banishing you all. Absolutely not. Get me out of here. I'm done. Somebody else takes over. That guy's not the right fit. Even Pavelski. It like it went and now look at them. They're like all thriving and they're well, maybe not Rob Blake is GM. I know they're a little out of them right now. They've had some trouble. Mike Medano took over the captaincy from Darian Hatcher. And Mike Medano wore the seat for two seasons before having it stripped in favor of Brendan Morrell. Wow. That feels again, like not being in the room. These things all should be dealt with by and large by the players and the coaches, my opinion on the matter. Obviously, when it's somebody like the Matthew or somebody like Matthew, some thing like the Leafs, these things take on a lie, a life of their own. And like, I know Brendan Morrell, good career, Olympian, that feels disrespectful to Mike Medano. So yeah, one of the greatest players ever to play. So cool. This one also another one of those you're like, really? Brad bring guys, Brett Hall was stripped of his captaincy by Mike Keenan, who named Shane Corson, the new captain who came in from Edmonton, who was stripped of his captaincy in Edmonton, only to be replaced by Wayne Gretzky after being acquired at the trade deadline. I will say Mike Keenan, it feels like he probably wanted to strip a captaincy twice a week. Just not. Yeah, just don't like the kind of a jib, don't like the way he looked at me, boys need to wake up, whatever it is. Yeah. So those are the ones that I came up with. I mean, again, there's more. Here's the other thing that I thought of. And this is so cynical of me. And it's not the reason why they did it. Oh, no, no, please, Kelly's going to come in here and yell at you if you say what I'm, I think you're about to say. What do you think I'm going to say? Let me sell some Jersey. Yes, sir. He way to go. He explicitly stated he was not here to do that. How dare you Matt Marchese? How dare you? It's just a, it's just a very, you know, okay coincidence. How does that work? Can I like go buy a patch or I got to buy the whole new, whole new kit? Well, this is what I mean, right? Like that, I'm sure you can go get it switched, but there's just more of an incentive to buy it. I'd say. So now, now it becomes, and I, I'm looking so far ahead from this because we're still a ways away, but how does this change the long term future of Austin Matthews in the city? Because the one thing that we have always heard is Austin Matthews loves it in this city. Austin Matthews has never signed the eight year extension, which I get. Yeah, because he's trying to maximize his money. I understand. They told me other NHLers are going to fall suit. I'd love to see it, but you're, you're not wrong. I think it's just, you know, like he's smart. It's just like, yeah, if there could be one other smart hockey player in, I don't know, a market like Edmonton, just say. And maybe there is. Maybe that's the Leon Dreycidal deal. But by the time his contract is done, he's going to be 30 years old, which is wild to think that it feels like he's been around forever. Yeah. When that happens, he is still the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Does this, does doing something like this, if you are the Leafs' organization, we talked about extending the olive branch by John Tavares to say, okay, I'm good with it. You know, maybe I'll come back. Does this change that conversation where it's Austin Matthews is the captain and is a leaf until he's 37? Is he the law, is he the, the, the leaf forever, like Sydney Crosby is the Penguin Forever type thing? I mean, I'd love to sit here today and tell you that, but I'd also be, it's so tough because I, I am of the belief that being a captain just fundamentally changes things. Even, even Matthews, who, to his credit, more or less, although God would have been nice to have one answer on what that weird hit is still to this day. But generally speaking, he's not hiding from the media. And I think that's fair to say about all these guys. Like, even Marner, have there been a couple of instances, sure, but it's like, he goes out there from the media at his golf tournament. Right. But he goes out there and he answers his questions. Neelander, it's like, he doesn't care. I'll sit there for 45 minutes. Should I gonna ask him a thing that's going to phase him? But Matthews talks more or less every single day, but it's not going to be more or less. It's going to be every single day. John Tavares sat there ate the crap sandwich after every bad loss. And again, these guys don't skirt their responsibilities. So I'm not saying that is like, it's going to be some, you know, 180 from what he does. But it's going to get ratcheted up a bit. And I think that he loves it here. I believe everything he said about that. I also think there's a chance where this is illuminating of a different level of pressure. But I also think that that's what happens when you come in to your own. If you want to be a leaf and you want to be here forever. And again, I take him at a complete face value for that. I was the guy who was never worried about the extension that was coming off of the we can and we will deal that Cal Dubas signed him to. I was never worried about that for a second. But I'm also not blind to the reality that this is going to change things in terms of the weight he feels. Does that change anything for him? I don't think it does. But to act like it's just going to be the exact same situation going forward. I think if anything, it emboldens him to complete the mission here and play it out. And does that mean he's a leaf to these 37? I don't know that it means that. But I believe he's a leaf so long as the Leafs are this a you know, upper echelon. Again, like we can quibble about if you're if your list of upper echelon teams is two or three teams deep, then no, the Leafs are not that. No, but they are they're there. They are a top third team in the NHL just like they have been for the entirety outside of that first season when they still managed to find a way. So as long as that's happening, I think he's going to want to be here. But again, I'm not blind to the reality that it is going to feel a little different answering these questions as captain to least. But this is also why you don't. And hey, some some people can handle it. This is why you don't make someone a captain at 22. This is the beauty of having him had the time to incubate and get comfortable in his own skin and understand what it's like to be in the NHL. Again, he's been at this for a long time now. And I just think that these are the baby steps you take to be ready to grow. And was he ready to be the least captain a year and a half ago? Yeah, probably. But we're here now and I just think it's kind of the perfect time. There's also something to be said about him wanting it because there's no financial incentive for him to be the captain of the Toronto Maple is like Austin Matthews is not making any extra money in whatever he's doing, whether it be commercial, he's not making any extra money because he's the Toronto Maple leaves captain. He wants this and you taught you made a comment earlier. And I just wanted to circle back on it just slightly because you talk about him being emboldened in all of this. And you the one thing that you mentioned that I wanted to riff off was you know, he's not the most vocal guy from what we understand. I wonder if maybe he kind of becomes that a little bit because this is John's the captain. This is John's team. Now it's my team. I can do things my way. And maybe this is the signaling of things being done differently with the Toronto Maple, please. Yeah, I also just think even if it's not a raw raw guy, I and you know, I think part of it, I actually think the biggest thing for the Leafs success when Matthews has been out of the lineup is just they're a good hockey team that has players that are able to step into roles that they don't usually play like I think that is actually the secret sauce to why they've been so successful without Matthews in the lineup. I forget what the record is, but it's obscene their win to loss record when 34 isn't in there. I also think it does say a ton about how the guys feel like they have to step up for him. Like I joke blowing that three one lead to the Canadians is the most disrespectful thing that's ever happened to John Tavares. It actually wasn't the knee from Corey Perry. It was the Leafs not not stepping up for their captain and giving him a chance to play when he would have been ready to play in the next round somehow some miracle. And the Leafs never do that for Matthews. There's almost never an egglade in a big game. It's like they go to Zona. They put 70 shots up on Vomelka. It doesn't matter if they win or not, but they go out and perform. And I just think that kind of means something. It carries it. And I don't think it's, I also think this is part of the, you know, I talked about this with the J's and, you know, being a leader for a baseball team and being a leader for a hockey team could not be more night and day. But I've talked about how I think if there ever was a way where the J's could be led in step by Bo and Vlad, the idea of having the opposing, not views, but just kind of demeanors about it. I think it's really good for the team. And I think that this is, if it ever can all work out, I know it's not me before this before, kind of the beauty of the Leafs group. It's like you have the robot in Tavares. You have Matthews who is kind of not robotic, but he just seems to be above it all. It's like, well, you guys are he does, Neil Andrew has somehow more of that than Matthews. I don't really, I mean, we know. Look how good looking the kid is. Okay, like we know what happens there. And then Marner seems to be the guy who is that kind of heartbeat guy. It seems like the vein or the nerve is a little more raw with him. And you do get that unvarnished emotion occasionally. And I think there's a world where all these guys together, they have the right kind of demeanor. It has not worked now. And I think that having Matthews kind of take over, I also wonder if it emboldens him to just change his demeanor just a little bit. And I don't think that means he's standing up and giving the like, we got, you know, he's given that speech if he's addressing, it's Rivo still quite honestly. And that's fine too. So that's what I kind of keep coming back to. Last thing and then we'll step aside and this will shock you all talk more about this. You mentioned the financial incentive. What I love most about this is that it didn't come after his extension. It wasn't a, it didn't appear to be, all right, come on, like do us a solid. Yeah, it wasn't a, it wasn't a pity, not a pity thing. It wasn't a quid, it wasn't a quid pro quo on the contract. It wasn't an, I, there's no world where you can connect a took a little less or the least maybe capitulated, but he got the sea out of it. This was just seen as the thing that he should have, be it from Craig Brube, be it from the new kind of brain trust involved there, or be it just the time was here. That's what I love most about it is this would have felt differently if he was walking up there last year, signing an extension and getting the sea. I wouldn't have necessarily had a problem with it, but this feels different than that. Yeah, I think that's a, I think that's a really accurate assessment of the situation. It's kind of like when Zadano Chara signed with the Boston Bruins and then immediately got the captaincy, not that they really had someone in place, but that's what happened. And it has happened before. This organization also did that and you mentioned with John Tavares, he didn't get the captaincy right away. So I think that's, I think that's very valid. There's a, I'm trying to come up with the word, it's not like, it's not convenient for them to just do it. Like there's no rhyme or reason why now. And that's why I think it makes it even more important. And it really illuminates the fact that this is awesome Matthews team right now at this particular moment in time. Yeah, a lot more to pick out on this, including what's the legacy of John Tavares as Leafs captain now that that run has come to an end. And I think this is just a fun question that I know all my text exchanges were immediately dancing around, who's wearing the other letters next year, they've been doing a lot of shares these. I wonder if that'll continue. Fan morning show continues next Sports Net 5.9 to the fan. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Should clarify based off the tenor of this intro, John Tavares is still with us, no longer with the sea on his wonderful Toronto Maple Leafs sweater. Hey, challenge is still on. Score a bigger goal this era of the Leafs challenge. John Tavares, number one with a bullet. I've been there for a lot of great Matthews moments. I mean, a lot of people were in Ottawa for the four, if you liked the more than more than senators fans. Yes, there were both like they enjoyed it more. And there were just factually more league fans and then senators fans. If you like dueling hat tricks to start the season, including a come from behind wins and both of those Matthews has done that. But yeah, goal over time to win a playoff series. John Tavares still going to hold that marker for, I don't know, at least like nine months, something like that, somebody who wants to maybe longer. Oh, very, very real possibility of it being longer again. Big news that report coming out, least making the announcement that Matthews will take over as the next captain in team history, taking over from John Tavares, the messaging was immediate from all corners of the hockey world. Do not let it be said that John Tavares wind and complained while they were taking away his seat. No, he was very much on board with this. I mean, look, there's, there's only one way this goes like in what world was John Tavares going to say, no, don't put that in any best release. Don't let anyone know that. No, of course, he wants to be a good soldier. I think this, I will say, I think the messaging of this and, you know, we'll hear from John at some point in time. I don't know that it'll be tomorrow, although I'm not ruling that out either. We'll hear from him at some point in time. Is I do think this indicates a little bit of a possibility for there being a rosy or end that it once appeared for Tavares here in Toronto. I don't know if, and I think there were a lot of people gone, what are you talking about? I think it was going to be a rosy end to begin with, but I certainly think there was a potential for some awkwardness at the end of this season without this. Yeah. And I, again, I'll go back to what I said in the first block about this is part of it is John Tavares not putting up a fight because John Tavares wants to be here because I firmly believe that if John Tavares did not want to be here, that he would be gone and this would have been a decision that would have just been here awesome math. Here's your, here's your captaincy. But I think what it does is it sets up the opportunity for John Tavares and this front office to play nice in the sandbox. And maybe there is a two-year extension worth whatever. I don't know the answer to said question, but it certainly makes those more more than you all in your car or thinking, but way less than what he makes now is probably the answer to that. Yes. I think that I think that's very fair. I was like, what, Geos, Betsy, 800k, wrong answer. Yeah. It's at minimum five or six. That's the number he's probably looking for. Unless they go longer term, unless it's like a long day until the end, you go like four years and then I could see the dollar dropping the course and kind of. And that would also come, I would assume, with a position switch as well on those lines. But that's not what we're talking about anyway. The point being that stock leaves conversation. We got new news today. Yeah. The point of the, the point of the matter is this. John Tavares has never been a guy that is going to ruffle feathers. John Tavares like this? Probably not. I get a cater to guess not. Yeah. But, but what I will say is that he's still, and I know we throw this around a lot and sometimes it is, you know, kind of overdone and whatever, but John Tavares is the consummate pro. It really is. Yes. And we can say whatever we want about the success that he's had on the ice or lack of success that he's had in the playoffs or whatever. This is still a point per game player, roughly, as a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's done a lot. He talked about scoring the biggest goal in this franchise for in this era of this team, for sure. And of the last 20 years, really, yes, for sure. And so I think it is, the timing is right, but I also believe that there is incentive for John Tavares to do this right now when we look at the long term future of him in this city. Yeah. I wholeheartedly agree. It's not apples to apples comparison because the guys were asked to do different jobs. And certainly the supporting cast looked a little differently, but, I mean, the ending at the very least is going to go infinitely better for John Tavares than it did for Dionne Fanuff, the guy he, well, he didn't take it over from. There was a three-year period where there was no captain. But, I mean, there's no salute, Kate, on Tavares' watch. There were certainly moments that could have gone awry. And, you know, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that John Tavares is the greatest captain in leaf history. I mean, it's not even the greatest captain I've seen in leaf history, let alone guys that actually won something. But I just think that there is a floor of professionalism you're going to have with him as the captain of your team. And I don't know that that's always been the case again. Like, I think Fanuff probably wears a little too much of it, but there's no salute, Kate happening. There's no waffle stuff going on while he was the captain here. And again, like, different job. The team Fanuff was asked to be captain of. He was asked to be the best player and the savior. And Tavares was brought in to help save it. But he had a ton of help around him. It's just a very, very different job. I think that in the moment we look at it as disappointing for a lot of people, his tenure is leaf captain because, you know, there was a 47 goal season, but there wasn't the, I think that set an expectation level for people that I think was quite frankly, I won't say unfair because he's making 11 and a half sheets a year, 11 sheets a year. When that wasn't very common. But I also think it was just a natural kind of changing of the guard that took over on his watch. I mean, I think the other thing we've got to say with all this is we're having this conversation today. You want to talk about nothing being promised? I don't think he was ever promised to be captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. I think there's a very, very, very real world where when he skates out to open the 2019 season and we're all sitting there, they're doing it all in alphabetical order and they miss Martin. Oh, they miss Matthews. Oh, they miss right. Oh, they miss Tavares. Who's it going to be? It could have just as easily been asked to Matthew skating out last that day to take the sea back then. So I don't think he, you know, I'm sure he counts every day that he wears the sea as the leaf captain, a very lucky one, but it's also the tenure that very easily could just have never happened in this would Matthew's team the entire time. And I, and I go back to what I said about Matthews being ready now versus what he was at 22. And maybe he could have been ready then. It's a tough ask. He was the perfect placeholder captain, placeholder for the captaincy. And that's not to say that he couldn't have done better things with it and the Leafs couldn't have gone on. They had opportunities. They had opportunities. But he was the perfect guy to kind of keep the captaincy warm. And it might have happened for a decade if the things had gone a little differently. But now it's time to hand it over to Matthews. Yeah. And, and again, this is one of those things. And you and I talked about this last week and how players are evaluated in today's game because of what they make. If John Tavares, if we, because you mentioned he made 11 and a half million dollars and scored 47 goals and that became the expectation. If we didn't worry about that kind of stuff, how much different is that legacy? Like, how is the tenor of the conversation changed? Yes, there is the playoff failure. No question about it. But, you know, Matt's only never won anything either. And Matt's only had more playoff success for sure. And for my money right now, and it's probably going to change, the greatest may belief of all time. I didn't get to watch Dave Keanu. My dad will tell me it's Dave Keanu. That's fine. I didn't watch Daryl Sittler. Fine. But I do believe that John Tavares is looked at in an entirely different light than, you know, who, like, insert cap, Wendell Clark. Yes. Oh, completely. But I think Wendell Clark, I think is more. Wendell Clark, I think he is more. He is more revered than John Tavares. There's a reason I made the Fonofcare comparison than not the, exactly. And Fonof is another guy that was looked at. Oh, well, he makes too much money. Yeah. Well, the team stinks around him. That's not his fault. And again, somebody offers you $8 million. You're going to go, well, I'm worth five. I don't think so. No, only in the history of the game has that happened once in Wisconsin, McDavid, when we all successfully bullied him into giving the Oilers an extra 500k a year to work with. Great job, us, I guess, on that. Yeah, you look at the, you look at the list of captains. So again, it's Tavares before that, there's a, there's a chunk of time no captain see Fonof between Fonof and Sundine. There were a couple seasons of no captaincy, but then from that you go, Sundine, Gilmore, Clark, Rob Ramage, Rick Vive, and then you're into your sitler. Like, I just think that's the other part of it is that if we're doing the delineating line of where does this player kind of fit in? I don't think if this team doesn't ultimately have success, Tavares will ever be viewed on the same likes of a Gilmore, of a Clark. But that has nothing to do in my opinion. Well, I shouldn't say nothing. That has little to do with the lack of team success. Of course, they ultimately win a cup. But even at those, let's say one of these Leafs teams had made a run to a conference final, I don't know, much like those teams had that we wouldn't view Tavares in the same light because it's the emotion of it all. Now, I will say it's like, when good things happen, he shows a ton of emotion. Go look at his face when he scored the goal to get the least past the lightning, so you see it. But I just think that's the other part of it is there was a connection that isn't always there. And I say that as somebody who thinks Tavares was an excellent captain for this team. But when you're kind of comparing him, I mean, Sundine, the run just wasn't the same. There was nobody else on the team that you could say, Oh, I think this guy is maybe better than no, Sundine was the best player on those teams. Now, it wasn't the case for Tavares. I think that's the other thing that has to be said, it's an odd place he was in in where he was clearly an elite player, clearly an NHL All-Star, especially early on in this tenure. But you look at it and you could easily make the case to be the fourth best forward on the team. And that's just such a kind of precarious, I shouldn't say precarious, but an odd situation to find someone and where you're a clear kind of generation removed from the guys that are your supporting cast, but they've already caught up to you. And that's and it's not a knock on John Tavares to say that Austin Matthews has caught him and surpassed him as a player. Portality of a playing career, that's all. And that's and that's you're right. That's fine. The one thing with with Tavares is that I think when you look at the skill set, you look at some of the parts of his game that have diminished. Well, one of them is one that has been a knock on his whole career, his skating. That's not getting any better, but I will, I truly believe that you have gotten the most out of John Tavares. Totally. During his tenure here. And that is what you need from a captain. Would you, would some people like it, like even me, I'll fall into this category or I'll put myself in this category. I would like John Tavares to be a little bit more raw raw. Sure. I think there's some value in that, but that's just not him. And so is that going to change with Austin Matthews? I don't know the answer to that. I think it will a little bit, because I think there's a natural evolution that when you are named captain, unless you're Don Tavares, I guess, where you become a little bit more vocal and you become a little bit more raw raw. As you pointed out, Ryan Reeves is probably the guy that's going to be the most raw raw when he's in the lineup. Well, and if you got to go higher up the pecking order, I think again, like we don't know, this is the beauty of like what you could potentially get out of all these Amazon series. I do feel like we got a little inkling of this when the least were featured on the like build up to the winner classic shows. It feels like that's Morgan Riley, given that speech. Does it not like that feels like his character? And guess what? It doesn't matter. Like you don't necessarily like, you know, God love Jeff has a party doesn't need to come in here and give us a big like, you boys are the best. You know how to do radio. Yeah, you shouldn't need it because different people need different things. And guess what? I bet there are two or three guys in that room, much like in every room in the league who need that who want that. They want the shot of adrenaline or whatever it is before the game. And guess what? You know, who else is there to give a nice speech? I don't know if you saw it before game seven of whatever cup final it was. Greg Marouba is given a pretty big, a good big pop speech in his life. So I don't know that that matters as well. I think so much of what the captain see is. And we talked about this with another crossboard comparison with Alfonso Davies becoming captain of the men's national team. Now, I think Matthew's is obviously, and this is just like, you know, time opportunity, all of this. Like he's obviously done more with the Leafs to have earned that than Davies has just didn't, again, age caps, all that stuff. But if you're going to make a change, you're not going to, there's no world where you were stripping the sea off John Tavares to just go to four A's or something like that. There's no world. And unless you're going to go Morgan Riley, there's nowhere else to go. But giving it to Morgan Riley, not seem like a slap in the face, kind of to everybody else, sure, which is a weird thing to say. Because I think that guy has been as long as 10 year late, longest 10 year leave, heart guts and soul of the team, all that stuff. But it would seem weird to take it from Tavares and quite frankly, give it to anybody other than Matthews. Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, I think the only, there was only one decision. Yes, and it was an easy one. Well, there were two. I am of the belief that you could have done the thing where Craig Brube says, I don't know these guys. I just got here. I've talked to them all. I'm going to have a camp. Maybe if I feel it in camp, sure. But I think the other route was to just go out, let Tavares play out the contract with the sea. But I think that to where we started this conversation, this leads to a rosier outlook on what the future could be for Tavares and the Leafs in terms of kind of going forward. Yeah, what I meant was the easy decision right that it's often massive. Yes, it's him. That's going to be the guy like Morgan Riley's played 791 games for the Toronto Maple Leafs. But he doesn't have to be the captain. Do you want to have you want to have the uncomfortable conversation now? Yeah, just in one second. This is super comfortable though. And I'm going to tell everybody, but the iconic Canadian rock band Blue Rodeo hits Budweiser stage on Saturday, August 24th, along with Matt Mays and Begonia to celebrate. We've been giving away tickets all week long to enter. All you have to do is tune in to the fan morning show, then listen for the code word, then text the code word to 59590 standard message and data rates may apply. Today's code word is try text, try to 59590 right now for your chance to win. We're giving away another pair of tickets tomorrow. But if you don't win with us, make sure to secure yours on ticketmaster.ca. So, you know, we came on here today. We set forward the big legacy questions that we have about this. And I think that's the pertinent thing. But I'd be lying. Every conversation I had about this yesterday had nothing to do with John Tavares legacy as Leafs captain is awesome. Matthew's going to be a little more raw raw. Every conversation that was being brought to me circled around one thing, who's getting the letters other than the C. Bingo for years on this team. For years on this team. John Tavares has worn the C. Morgan Riley has worn an A. And Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner have shared the A. I forget which is which one goes home, one goes road. Fine by me. I think both those guys are super important to your team and you want to embolden them. Is it so simple that they just go back to that with Tavares being inserted in the Matthew spot and he shares a letter with Marner. Is that the easy? If we talk about it, the easiest decision in the world was to give Austin Matthews the captaincy. Once you decided to move on, it was the easiest thing in the world to give it to Matthews. Is that where they end up? Which Tavares wearing an A on the road or at home and Riley always getting his maybe Riley goes into a time share with Mitch Marner or just John Tavares really be the bigger man and say I don't need a letter. I came here without a letter and all he's not going anywhere, but I'll stay here without one. So I do wonder about the idea of Mitch Marner not having an A this year. Wow. I think that is a possibility. The only thing that I kind of quibble with is how much do you want to piss the guy off? How much does that a matter to him? Because there's two parts of this. One, you can piss him off and he uses as motivation along with the fact that he's playing for a contract. The other thing that could happen is this just gets so much worse. And that's not something that you want if you are a team in the Toronto Maple Leafs position, which is there's a window to win here. Or at least we believe that there's a window to win here. This is where I don't know that this is decided right now. I do wonder about the idea of Craig Brube having a camp and figuring that out. I think Morgan Riley is locked into an A. I don't. I think that goes without saying. I almost want to give him a lowercase C. A double A? No, lowercase C. Matthews is the captain, but if anything happens. So there's that part. So I think that he's locked in. I kind of feel like John Tavares is locked into an A here as well. I don't think he goes from being a captain to not having a letter on his jersey. I don't think so either, but I mean crazier things have happened. Why I just think if the if I just think if the idea is John Tavares is being the best sport possible. He is playing ball. He is Mr. Team player. He just wants to the only letter he cares about is the ones that spell out Toronto Maple Leafs on the crest. Then why give him a letter at all? Like if we're in the guise of making it easy, I think you could do it that way. I also think there's plenty more meat on this. So we'll continue the conversation before we're joined by Gord Stellik on the other side of things. Something tells me our 730 guests might want to weigh in on this as well. John Marosi is going to be crowing about like how a great American is overtaking the Leafs or something like that. And I'll be crowing too. If Matthews does what I think we're all we all think he's capable of this season. Plenty of leaf. Captain Zetok in the summer. Oh, joyous topic today. Fan Morning Show continues next on SportsNet 5.9 at the fan.
