[music] Hello, welcome to the Awakened in a Line podcast. My name is Shannon Kaiser, and I'm your host. I am also the author of several books on really feeling better from the inside out, everything from the self-love experiment to adventures for your soul and return to you. And I have a brand new deck coming out soon, Guidance from Gaia, that is all about how to connect from really to earth energy and connect inward to our own heart by tuning into the benevolent spirits that can help us all around. So a lot of exciting things, but one of the most important things that I'm excited about is something that I've been doing over the past four weeks now, about halfway through my own program. I'm really excited to share today, because on the podcast I bring on a guest that can help us live our life with more self-agency and really to advocate for ourselves from a place of dismantling the ego. How does it sound to not be so stressed out? A lot of the times our stress, our anxiety, our fear comes from life experience. Of course, I know this firsthand, but it also comes from the way our brain processes this information, and a lot of that is ego and fears and unresolved traumas, and these anxieties can take hold. So if you're feeling stressed out, if you're overwhelmed, maybe you're feeling like, "Should I stay, should I go in my relationship, or in my current role or job?" Or maybe you're just kind of like, "Blah, I've had a lot of clients lately in my coaching practice who are just like, "Blah, not a lot of motivation." Wanting to feel better, they're kind of like in between who they used to be and not quite sure what they're opening up into. And then of course, there's a whole bucket of people who are feeling really good, jazzed up, super aligned with their passion, but they're ready for that next level. And so that's what today is all about. And from that place, I wanted to bring on our guest today, who is actually really important, because Michael, he is our guest today, and Michael actually, Michael Potogrowski works. He's the chief strategy officer of Mindbloom, and he works at Mindbloom and Mindbloom is the company that I am a proud partner of. And I've been teaming up with Mindbloom to do this program, so my self-care and self-love routine over the last several weeks has included ketamine treatment. At home, ketamine treatment is what Mindbloom specializes in. And this company is, I have been so impressed. And so I wanted to first get on here right before we bring Michael on and say, "This podcast today, it's not an advertisement. They're not sponsoring this podcast by any means. It's not an ad for Mindbloom, but Michael does work at Mindbloom, so you're going to hear us talk about the company. But also, I, as you know, only bring on guests, authors, or companies that I believe in and have fully participated in and transformed within myself." And so I do get people who reach out want to be on the podcast, but if I haven't experienced your program, or if I haven't fully read your book, or, you know, then it's a miss for me because this podcast, it's basically about transforming lives. And I'm like, "Well, if my life's been transformed, then I believe in it, and I know the power." And of course, not everything is for everyone. And so today isn't just like about ketamine therapy, but if you're curious about it, you definitely want to listen because we share more about the neuroplasticity, the science behind ketamine therapy. Mindbloom themselves have done the largest study, and it's helped people with their anxiety and relieve it and relieve depression. And for me, it has been radical from when I started my therapy, and I was having rumination thoughts. I still, as you know, had PTSD, I've been through a lot of really traumatic events. I was diagnosed with depression several years ago. I was able to overcome it, then it came back, and then I was suffering from anxiety. And then, as you know, I've just been through so much over the last couple years, and it's like literally rock bottom, darken out of the soul, after darken out of the soul, after rock bottom, like four or five things hit me really hard within a short period of a two-year time sprint. And then I discovered this company called Mindbloom, and I was very interested, and then I started talking to them, and I became a proud partner. And so if you stick around to the end, I'll share, you know, if you type in Shannon 100, Shannon K 100, you can save $100 on your program. But again, this isn't an ad, what we're really doing is bringing information out into the world of what's happening in the mental health community. In the world of ketamine therapy, it's a process that can really help you surrender and let go. And just in my short time of three weeks having my first part, I'm halfway through the program, the rumination is completely gone. I have so much more space in my day because my mind is not obsessing, and I'm opening up to new possibilities. And so I've been full of creative ideas. And I've been diving into new books that I've been wanting to read for a long time. My life has become more rich and more full because I'm no longer holding on to things from the past that I just was logging around for decades unknowingly because I was like, how could people be so heartless and hurt people? Like, I just couldn't wrap my head around it. And the ketamine is helping me be like, it's okay, you're not that person, you don't operate that way. And that's the beautiful thing. You can keep being your beautiful heart. You can keep loving people and exist in the world and open up and not let the past pain keep you down. So it's been powerful. And so today when I bring on Michael, we talk, you know, if you're interested in ketamine, ketamine is a great podcast to listen to. If you've been curious, if you've been wondering about, you know, psychedelic medicine, I'll share, you know, if you've been following Shannon or play with the world or been part or read any of my books, you know, I'm a big component of trying things and exploring new modalities and plant medicine has really helped me in a therapeutic setting on my journey. But this is very different as far as, you know, psychedelics and plant medicine. Ketamine is very different because even the way it operates, my guide, Michael, one, they hook you up with a clinician and kind of a coach and a guide for integration. My guide, it's name is Michael different than the Michael I bring on today. It's beautiful. And by the way, Archangel Michael is very high vibrational being. So we got a lot of Michael energy in today's podcast. But my guide, Michael, he said, you know, he does a lot of integrations too and leads plant medicine, there's some ceremonies and there's a sacredness to the healing journey when you truly align with it and go into this embodiment. So with ketamine, it is an opportunity to connect to your higher self. It's a medicine and a process that leads you into a place of connecting inward so you can go upward. It's like, that's the best way I can describe it and it's very peaceful. I feel like I go into an hour long meditation that feels like it's maybe 10 minutes and it's very safe. It's very cozy, if you will. I feel I put my eye mask on and I just go into this beautiful journey listening to music. And then I come out with new pathways opened up in my brain and I can't go back to where I was like, it's hard to try to bring myself back into that vibration of stress or anxiety. So it's wonderful. And I think you're really going to enjoy our podcast today. I also want to share whether you're into kind of this modality or, you know, you're not interested, this is still a great podcast to listen to because we not only talk about ketamine, of course, we don't just talk about mindbloom, but we're going to be sharing insights on how you can actually be a better human, how you can live a good life. You know, it's not just about what we do. It's about why we do it and also the behaviors and embodying that. And you know, we talk about our values and how you can actually tweak your life to really make the little tweaks turn into transformational big changes. And we share, you know, the power of preparation for your self care routine, learning how to love yourself more, whether it's through different therapies like journaling and we should talk about the power of mantras, which you know, I'm a fan of being the author of Find Your Happy Daily Mantras and a new book coming out on mantras next year more on that soon. So that's a beautiful program. Today is one of my favorite podcasts that I have ever really done because it talks about the mental health, the spiritual kind of aspect of life, as well as the psychology. These are the buckets in which I love and live in. If you were to kind of put those together, you would have everything that I stand for and am here to help in the world. So I hope you really enjoy today's beautiful podcast. And it's, it's such a joy, Michael Puchakroski, the chief strategy officer at Mindbloom is here to talk to us about how we can really dismantle our ego and live from our higher self. Welcome to the Awakened in a Line podcast, Michael. I'm so happy you're here with us today. How are you? Thank you so much, Shannon. I'm wonderful. And it's really a pleasure to be with you here today. You know, I, I've listened to your podcast and I've been so impressed with the positive, and curious space you create for these conversations. I'm grateful for the work that you do to help educate people and provide information that can help them improve their lives. And I'm just excited to be here with you today. Well, that touched my heart. Thank you. You used to. That means a lot. The, the word curious really stuck out. I, I'm a curious soul and that is one of the main reasons I wanted to bring you on today. I am so fascinated with my experience so far with ketamine and Mindbloom, but there's a lot of questions from different angles and it curiosity is such a beautiful thing because it's what helps us grow. Knowledge is important. So I'd love to just kind of let curiosity lead us today and with that kind of notion and that umbrella, I'd love to just hear a little bit more about you. I know you're at Mindbloom. You've been there for a while. Now you're in a new role. Can you share a little bit more about your experience with, with both ketamine and also at Mindbloom? Absolutely. Um, so yeah, I've been at Mindbloom for more than three years now. I joined initially as the general counsel, which means I was a lawyer for the company, but I've moved into a new role as that chief strategy officer where among other things, I'm helping to tell Mindbloom story publicly and really help share with people who could benefit from this treatment, what Mindbloom is, what ketamine therapy is and how it can help. And in terms of how I got to the company, the founder of the company is a guy named Dylan Biden, who's been one of my best friends for the last 17 years, and he's someone who had his life profoundly transformed by psychedelic medicine. And he started Mindbloom with the mission of transforming lives to transform the world. What I mean by that is, you know, when you've seen the power of ketamine therapy or other psychedelics to improve someone's mental health, you realize it doesn't just help them. It helps them be a better friend and community member and family member and has ripple effects and helps other people. So really by transforming individuals' lives with psychedelic medicine therapy, we're hoping to transform a lot more lives at scale. I was actually, you know, in addition to being Dylan's friend, I was a client before I worked here and ketamine therapy was profoundly impactful for me getting over really a lifetime of social anxiety and happy to share more about that with you today. Oh, yeah, I think sharing our story is so important in what you, you know, I love the founder's story. It's wonderful that you guys have been friends and you've seen a difference. I often say in my books, you know, when you heal yourself, you help to heal the world. Yes. And that's one of the reasons I was actually really drawn to your company and the values. There's such a mission in a pulse to Mindbloom. You guys have actually really, you've won a lot of awards, but it's about that accolade on the outside, what I feel is it's actually the energy and the vibration of inside the company, you know, just to jump back and then we'll jump back to your story. But when I was kind of deciding, I wanted to be a partner with Mindbloom. It was like a non-negotiable was like, yes, but I realized that you guys have a core value that's you seek and speak the truth directly and possess a high courage and low ego. And I read that because I was looking at like different jobs on Mindbloom. It was just so fascinated and you guys really value integrity and cultivate wholeness and make exceptional decisions and you practice intellectual honesty. The reason I'm bringing this up is because these are really like heart-based full vibrational alignments to a better way of living both for yourself and others. So if you have a whole culture like that, it really breeds better and you're committed to being better for yourself. Can we just talk a little bit more about that and what your experience has been like as the company culture and how it's impacted yourself? Absolutely. Yeah. It's unbelievable. I mean, I've never seen an organization live their values the way Mindbloom does. I think you hit on those four core values. We have practice intellectual honesty, make exceptional decisions, cultivate wholeness and focus. And those are our values because they are the key things that enable us to deliver transformational care for our clients. And so much of these values involve being straightforward and candid with one another, listening without ego, being transparent, giving direct feedback, being honest about what's working and what's not telling each other so that we can improve and really bring positive intent to everything we do so that when we give each other feedback or join together on a project, if someone says, "Hey, I think this isn't quite working right," or, "Maybe this could work better a different way," we all understand that we're moving in the same direction. We're all sharing the same mission to transform lives. And so we can have that honesty and collaboration and it always adds up to a better product and service for our clients who need it. Yeah. As you share that, I have like full body goosebumps in a good way. It's like care bear hugging. No, it's amazing. I mean, you know, we client service is the lifeblood of what we do. And we start every board meeting, every leadership meeting, every document that we share. It always has client stories at the top. We share these anonymous client stories of people who have been helped just to remember why we're doing this and keep that front and center. And, you know, we have this internal communication channel of anonymous client stories that guides and clinicians and others will post. And if I'm ever feeling stressed or tired and want to refocus my energy, I just go read those client stories and it always, you know, brings me back to this place of openness and excitement and wanting to do more for people here. Oh, that's so beautiful. And it really is, you know, just in hearing that I came from a corporate background and I was suffocating my soul and it was a lot basically because the values weren't aligned. So what you just shared is so important for anyone who's listening to, it's not just like, yes, we're talking mind booms in an amazing company. But like I said, on the onset, this isn't an ad for mind boomer. We're really talking about is how to live a better life. And what you're getting at is the values you are aligned with the values. And when you're working as a company or when you live and breathe your values, it becomes this this experience that's bigger than yourself. And it's really how to be better in life. It's we're all you said we're all working towards the same thing. I mean, how many companies can say that? How many people even in your own personal relationships, right? It's so beautiful. So I feel like these are rules for life that we can apply, just align with your values and live those and body those and keep checking in with them. And you know, what you said just now, the power of story, I love every, every person I've talked to at Mindblube through email or phone call, I love how you guys are so personal. And we start each email. It's a human first company. I feel like I'm saying the person, it's actually helped me be a better communicator in my own personal business because I love that engagement. And so if you share a little bit more about your personal story, I'd love to hear maybe your ketamine journey. Yeah, absolutely. I think maybe it'll be helpful if I share a little bit about my journey and, you know, my own experience and then I can dive into the science a little bit and how this works under the hood. Yeah, great. So, you know, I was someone who had social anxiety from a really young age and you know, I can remember middle school, elementary school being just having the sense of dread about certain social things and really being put on the spot feeling like I was going to be found weird or gross or, you know, some, some other way I was going to be rejected by people. And you know, some of my friends would probably be surprised to hear me say this because I've, I think as a coping mechanism cultivated a kind of gregarious attitude and I often seem very social, but it's so hard for me. And, you know, Shannon, I can't tell you how many times I walked out of a date or a meeting or a job interview because I was panicking. I was sweating. I was shaking. My chest was seizing. I couldn't breathe and I couldn't get past this. I mean, I tried therapy on and off for years. Eventually, I was prescribed, Klonopin and beta blockers and they could help you get through something. But when I took them, I didn't remember what happened. And so it was this really Faustian bargain where I would say, okay, I can get through this event, but I'm not going to remember what happened. Is that the choice I want to make today? And it was usually the choice because I felt like I had to get through it. But it was really sad. There are gaps in my memory, things from work, from my social life, things that I missed because I was taking these, you know, anxiety suppressing drugs just to get through the day and I wanted something better. Yeah. You know, I felt like those were masking symptoms, but not actually helping me heal, you know? And I tried ketamine therapy for the first time with mind bloom and from the very first session, it was like unlike anything I'd ever seen before. So you know, the way the way it works, you first fill out some, you know, initial surveys and provide some information about your medical history and then you have a initial consultation with a clinician who's a psychiatrist or nurse practitioner or physician assistant who really does a full, you know, work up of your mental and physical health and understand if ketamine therapy could be right for you. And if it is, they prescribe, you know, between one and three doses initially that are sent to you at home. And you take that medicine, it's, you know, usually in the form of a sublingual tablet and you have a guide who meets with you before that session to help you prepare for the experience. And I can dig into a little bit more about what these mean. But that first session for me, you know, you take the medicine, you turn on the audio, it's usually a guided track or music or nature sounds. You turn on this audio, you put on your I'm asking you turn inward. And when I did it that first time, it was like noise canceling headphones for my brain. Yeah. All this shatter, all of these thought spirals, this fear, this doubt, this questioning, this self accusation, it all just quieted down and it was still, and I had this sensation. I was still, I was still aware I was me, but I had this sensation of being in this igloo. It was cool. It was quiet. You know, have you ever walked in the woods in the snow when everything's kind of muted from the snow? Yeah. It was like that. It was that quiet muted space and I, yeah, and I realized how rare it was for my brain to be quiet. I'm always calculating and thinking and on guard, you know. And in the igloo, there were these doors and different doors led to different experiences that would normally cause me this anxiety, whether it was a date or a presentation or an interview or some public speaking event. And normally when I have anxiety, there's this physical sensation of sweating and chest tightness and pulse racing and that triggers a mental side where I'm then worrying about it. I'm sweating. What if I fail? What if I do this and they create this feedback loop, but I could walk through these doors and experience being in one of those situations with no anxiety, none of the physical sensations, none of the spirals. I could just inhabit that experience without any of the baggage that normally came with it. So I would spend time in one room and say, okay, I think I think I see this here. I think I see how I can be in this presentation in a boardroom without that anxiety. And then I'd walk back into the igloo, go through a new door, okay, I'm speaking in front of a crowd at a conference, but I'm calm and I'm at ease and I don't feel that sweat, that panic. And it was really the first time I had realized that you could disaggregate the physical sensations and the mental sensations. And it was like this light bulb moment like, oh my gosh, it doesn't have to be this way. I mean, showed me a different way of feeling and experiencing these things. Wow. Yeah, I'd never seen anything like it. Yeah, from there, I was able to keep visualizing that and practicing that and unpacking it. It didn't all change on day one, but you know, you did my second session and I revisited some of those experiences and I did my third and I thought about where does this anxiety come from. And, you know, I kept going through treatment and I'll tell you, it didn't happen immediately, but it happened that, you know, eventually I was able to go to a conference where I would normally take two climate pitted blockers beforehand and I said, you know what, this time, I'm not going to do it. And I remember being in the hall beforehand, getting ready and it was kind of hot in there and the other speakers are in there and I'm getting kind of nervous thinking, oh my gosh, did I make a huge mistake? But I said, nope, this is what we committed to. We're going to trust ourselves. We're going to trust the audience and showed us. We're going to believe that we can do this. We've seen it. We've visualized it. We've felt it and I went out and the panel, I was on a panel and the moderator asked me a question and I actually kind of flubbed the first one. I got a little nervous and I said, oh my gosh, this might have been a mistake, but this, the wildest thing happened. One of the other panelists recovered from addiction and it started a company to help others do the same and she shared her experience with addiction and it just kind of inspired me and when a question came around to me, I shared with the audience that it was my first time doing any public speaking without pills in 10 years and they clapped. They were excited for me and I just had this feeling of soaring and it was incredible and I did this conference and I was like, I don't need those pills anymore. I'm done. I was able to get through this and I had that immediate feedback of it's okay and the sense of gratitude and elation I felt for having worked through that, it was just unbelievable and it couldn't have happened without ketamine therapy. Wow. You know, my experience is similar in that way where you talk about you turn inward. Thank you for sharing that story because there's simply things to unpack there, mainly this part that you shared. You know, at the end too, it's, you know, this anxiety that kind of plagues us and carries around. But what's interesting that I really, as you were talking, I really put a pin in that part of small subtle shifts because it's, it's, you're like, it doesn't happen overnight. It's not that we're all looking at some point on our healing journey for that miracle that fix and I think that's outside and you go, you know what, I turned inward and then I immediately allowed myself to kind of watch and see and experience and in that experience, I learned to trust myself. I learned to create a new belief system. And I think talking about the power, just, you know, not just about ketamine, not just about mind bloom or any, anytime and any place in our life on our own mental health journey, learning how to trust ourselves, I think is really powerful and the small subtle shifts, paying attention. Yes. You hit the nail on the head right there with paying attention. I think what these medicines, what ketamine and other psychedelics can be really great for is helping you notice something in a session, you know, a way you act or a thought that, you know, often comes up in certain situations. And then you start to notice it in real life and you say, oh, I know what this is. Yes. I've seen this before. Right. Oh my goodness. And you get that little recognition. I just, just side note, I just had an experience this morning with an email with a, with a kind of a, an author friend. And there was a time where I would have totally overreacted. So I'm about three weeks into my six week mind bloom program. And the kind of, I've seen some radical shifts and changes as far as no longer really ruminating, no longer. My anxiety that kept creeping back in at different stages has really, I'm so present now. And I noticed, I noticed this morning in the way I'm reacting and the way not reacting. I'm like, oh, and it's such a beautiful thing. And I think, you know, my integration guide you talked about in the mind group, when I went, you know, I've done other programs. And one thing I think is important to talk about too with mind bloom, the amount of support you have, the integration, I had an, I have an integration guide where we meet before our first session. And then we talked after and we unpack it and that unpacking and then there's the integration circles. I've done other programs and I feel like they just leave you hanging. And you're like out there to, what did I just experience? But there is such a well loved support group. And one of the things my guide Michael shared is, you know, when you're setting your intention and intention is everything going into each session and the treatment process, it's about show me, teach me, guide me, let's talk about that a little bit, because when I reframed my intention, all of a sudden I got greater results, if you will. Yeah. No, I think this is a really under appreciated aspect of the program and can be really the key in achieving some of those transformations and gaining new insights. You know, I think to take a step back, you know, ketamine, and I can get more into the science of it, but ketamine therapy is actually not super new. It's been used for mental health for almost 25 years now. And in ketamine therapy, 1.0, the original version of this treatment, it was kind of just you go to a doctor, you get an IV of the medicine and you go home. And what we're trying to do it, mindbloom is provide more than just the medicine. And so we thought about ketamine therapy 2.0 as the medicine plus coaching, content, and community. And so that coaching is what you're talking about with the guides. The therapeutic content is what happens, you know, in the app during the session before and after. And then community, those group integration circles are online community in ways that you can interact with other people going through treatment together. And so the guide piece, you know, they are there to help you set intentions beforehand and integrate the experience afterwards so that you can take insights you gain during a session, turn them into long lasting change. And you know, setting intentions is really interesting. It's not like an agenda, it's not a shopping list or a roadmap necessarily, it's often, you know, just something to, at first, you know, make you more present going into the session. Really think about why we're there. I mean, I don't know if you've had this experience. I'm often so busy that I feel like I'm doing things, but I'm also thinking about five other things and then I'm like, wait, did I actually do that today? I can't even remember because I was doing five things at once and, you know, setting your intentions. It's like, okay, why am I sitting down today? Why am I committing this time to take this medicine to turn inward? Okay. What I'm working on is there something specific here that I'm curious about that I want to learn more about and setting an intention, you know, for me, it varies. Sometimes I will start out saying, you know, I think when I first started out, my first intention was like, I want to work on my anxiety. And now they're often a lot more nuanced, you know, sometimes I'll ask myself a question early on. It was, what would it look like to be in those situations and not feel anxious? Yeah. I wanted to visualize it. I wanted to say, what would it, what would it look like to forgive myself for some of the times where I feel like I felt short, where I let myself down or I let others down? Sometimes it's a question. Sometimes it's, I want to understand why I feel so anxious or what the root of this is. And I've been so amazed at what the medicine has shown me and my guide was always really helpful for that. Just kind of asking a question, not necessarily telling me an answer, but asking a question that let me get to an answer that really led to some amazing insights during treatment. And so those guides, you know, in that one on one coach and I think are just incredibly important for helping us get more out of treatment. And then you also mentioned, you know, group integration circles. This is, I think, my favorite part of the program, you know, guides will lead these circles where people share their experiences. They're non-judgmental, they're open and, you know, psychedelics are unique. This is not like another substance or like in another experience that most people have had. And I know for so many of us when we go through it, we're like, this is wild. Who can I talk to about this? And you can always talk to your family or your co-workers, anyone, anyone, yeah. And so having a space where people who are having these new experiences that are unlike other things can actually share those and hear from each other and say, oh my gosh, I had that too where, you know, I just heard what someone said about this and it gave me a different lens through which to view my own experience. I mean, they've been so valuable for me to just ask more questions and see my own experiences through different perspectives based on what other people share. Yeah. Oh my gosh. As you said that, I experienced that for the first time in my guided zoom circle and it was, it was the healing that happened just in sharing and then holding space for others. I walked out feeling like, oh my gosh, I just had more insights. And that's something you don't always get with other programs. But what's really interesting, I thought, and it kind of ties to what you just shared even with the guide and the coaching beforehand, you said they asked questions. They're not there to give and offer advice in the sense. And I think that that also like put up in there, that also is, I always see the world in metaphors, you know, so no matter what path we're on, this also is something we can take into our life. So I think so often unconsciously we're going around, especially in the coaching community, healing community, a lot of us who do spiritual work, something I really heard in the first part of that, you know, integration circle was, especially if you're a people pleaser, recovering people pleaser, like just, and I loved that because I, hey, hand up over here, recovered people pleaser. I didn't even know that I was my ammo was to just kind of help people through advice. And sometimes I have learned over the last several years by doing this work and in my academy sessions, it's shown me as well. The way I can best be there for people is to just listen and hold space and say, I understand and is there anything you need instead of just kind of coming in to save or solve. That is something that is kind of a layer through all of this because we're all on our own journey. Yeah, I think that's so well put. And I've had a really similar experience. You know, my wife has a great framework that we use with little kids, which is do you want to be helped, heard or hugged? And I think integration circles are really hurt and kind of hugged emotionally, not physically hugged, but we're on zoom. Oh, I'll take that physical. It's a, but I think feeling heard is, you know, it's such a, it's a real hurt is a real gift. And I think it's a great, you know, you, you can have a positive experience by learning something about yourself and you can have a positive experience by giving the gift of having someone feel heard in that circle. And I use that for the name of our podcast, it sounds like all of us all attribute you and your wife. I love it. Honestly, when you said that my inner child just like reached out and joy, like if every inner child or child on earth had that, that's really kind of what we're doing with these programs. And when we're going through a ketamine session, that's you're giving yourself that time to either feel energetically hugged or hug yourself there. I woke up from a session that was pure self love, like with my arms around myself, you know, Oh, isn't that an incredible feeling, those self love sessions, do you mind sharing a little bit about it? I'd love to hear. I would love to. And what's interesting is I went and show me how to open up to romantic love. So I was thinking I'd be seeing these like romantic partners and I'd be seeing like soul mates. The whole session was the most divine, gorgeous, goddess energy of me loving myself. And I've been on a self love journey. I have books on it. And I thought I loved myself and through this process, I love myself so much more. There's just so much abundance. And so through this beautiful journey that I went on, it was love everywhere. I saw almost every person I felt betrayed or used or abused by in the past, X's that I was still said I was over in my heart, but still feeling why did they wrong me? Total forgiven. And yes, and it wasn't even just a forgiveness. It was, I see you on your journey, you know, God bless you. I love you. I release you. And I will the rumination completely stopped after that session. And in this session, I like how when you were describing your session, you said, I see it was unlike anything I've seen because I do see a lot of visuals in mind. And they feel it's almost like I'm watching a dream or watching myself outside of myself, like a lucid dream. Right? It's very safe. It's so different than any other psychedelic or plant medicine that I've done. I know it's not plant medicine. And so I think I do want to talk to the safety of it, but also more importantly, a lot of people listening, I know I have coaching clients and stuff too. Some people are like, yes, sign me up. I'm ready to try something new. And then others are like, whoa, psychedelics. That's like 70s. Woohoo. I'm not going there. But to me, I believe in it from the space of mental health, I've suffered from clinical depression and anxiety, and I have found self-love healing forgiveness through this. So talk to that if you can. Well, first of all, thank you so much for sharing that. That sounds like a beautiful session. And I'm so grateful and excited for you that you were able to experience that love. It's such a powerful thing when you feel it. And I'm happy for you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. That's wonderful. Yeah. I'm happy to dive into some of the science and the data around this because I think it's really often misunderstood. So, you know, ketamine was actually approved by the FDA back in 1970 as an anesthetic and analgesic. And what that means is that for the past 50 plus years, it's been used in innumerable procedures, often as a, you know, a sedative to help people, whether it was a dental procedure or if they were injured, something else. It's in every ambulance you see driving down the street. It's in every ER. It's been on the World Health Organization's list of essential medicines since 1985. And that's all in part because it has this remarkable safety profile. And until health use, we're actually using it as a fraction of the dose it was used for anesthesia and analgesia. So we're taking an already safe medicine and using it at, you know, one tenth the dose. And so, you know, I'll talk about more about the safety in a minute, but the history is kind of interesting. You know, it was used in these other medical procedures and after a while, there started to be kind of anecdotal evidence around doctors that their patients who got this medication for, you know, anesthesia or analgesia for pain started to feel less depression, started to feel better mentally. And they said, well, what's going on here? And so they started running a study and in 2000, the first study was published showing that ketamine was remarkably effective and fast acting for the treatment of depression. I mean, that study was showing after one session. Wow. People had incredible improvements in depression. And since 2000, you know, 24 years now, there have been over a hundred studies published showing that ketamine is remarkably effective for depression and also for anxiety, for PTSD, there's emerging evidence showing it may be really helpful for OCD, for eating disorders, for other issues. So it appears to be a really versatile medicine. And you know, I think what distinguishes it from other, you know, we call them last-generation antidepressants. There are a few things, you know, one, it's really fast acting. I mean, again, I mentioned, you know, after just one session, people see improvements. A lot of those other antidepressants people are on for weeks or even months before they see improvements. People, you know, there haven't been a lot of head-to-head studies, but there's really strong evidence that it produces even stronger treatment responses, meaning greater reductions in symptoms than some of those other drugs. And it does so in a way that doesn't require taking daily pills forever. You know, our treatment program is six sessions and we see really incredible results from that rather than having to take a pill, you know, for years or decades at a time. And so it's, you know, the evidence is really strong and, you know, mind-bloom, we've actually now published two studies that are the two largest in the history of ketamine therapy. And what they showed was that 89% of clients saw improvements in symptoms after just four sessions. Yeah, 63% saw clinically significant improvements. So, you know, big improvements there that really, you know, make the difference between depression and not depression or anxiety and not anxiety. And it was remarkably safe. I mean, less than 5% of clients reported any side effects from treatment, and those side effects were really short-lived, meaning they usually resolved by the time the medicine wore off after 90 minutes, maybe two hours. And so it's a really safe medicine when used under clinical supervision and used as directed. And it's been really effective for our clients. So, you know, we've published those two studies, we're going to publish more, but that last one that we published was in June, that was 11,000 clients worth of data. And, you know, that's a data set that I think is really reliable and, you know, definitive on these questions. Yeah. No kidding. Yeah. And just real quick, some of the side effects that might pop up. What are those? Yeah, people tend to, you know, I mean, again, side effects are really rare, but when they do pop up, sometimes there's nausea, and clinicians often prescribe Zofran or something else to help alleviate nausea. There can be some headaches, there can be a little grogginess. You know, there are some other side effects that are really rare, but clinicians go over these with clients, and we have informed consent and other documents that lay all this out. But, you know, really the main side effects would be the, you know, potentially nausea or headache, dizziness or grogginess. You know, we recommend, you know, we actually, we require that clients have a peer treatment monitor physically present with them during treatment. And that's someone who's there really to help create a safe space for them. It's not to perform a medical function, really, but to help them, you know, get water, go to the bathroom, you know, get something to need if somebody rings the doorbell. You don't want to be in the middle of session and get up and answer the door. But, you know, we've found that this medicine is incredibly safe, but we bolster it by having a peer treatment monitor, who's, you know, a friend or family member who can be home with you during sessions. And they usually wait, like in the other room, they're not with you. So it's very, yeah. My mom, she's good. She's like, it's, it's a beautiful process. They just check in. My mom says, I'm smiling. She comes in and she's like, oh, she's such beautiful energy and peaceful. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's been my experience too. My wife has acted as my peer treatment monitor. And there's, there's nothing quite like doing a session, feeling great, and then taking off my MS and seeing her there, it's a really hard part of it. Yeah. You know, there's something about that too, allowing yourself to receive help, ask, you know, for those fiercely independent kind of, I can do it myself. That's part of the process. And it's healing to allow people in on your healing journey. I love sharing my after kind of what I experienced with my mother. It's helping our healing together and our family. So to that point, you know, we have just a little bit of time left. I could definitely talk a lot longer, but I wanted to touch on two things with you. One is the neuroplasticity. Interesting enough, during my self love session, I call it where I was like thinking it was going to be about romantic love. There was a part in my journey where if you've seen the movie, I think it's called In and Out where the inside out where the inside out. Yeah. So inside out, there's the emotions inside, you know, inside. It was like my emotions or inner Shannon was in my mind. And there was like a big sandstorm and it was all the chaos and what it represented. I saw. I was outside of it. I wasn't feeling I was watching and seeing, but I saw that these were all those ruminations, the PTSD, all of it. And it was just like this clutter and inside I was yelling kind of like joy did in the movie where she's like, open the windows. She didn't see. She's like, we got to stop anxiety, you know. So in my mind, I was like, open the windows, but it was safe. It wasn't like, hurry. It was just like, and as soon as I did that, it was instant peace. The scene stopped. Everything stopped. And I heard my higher self, angels, God, whatever was there, my inner brain say, these are the pathways opening up. And and that was profound for me because every ketamine session, that was my very first session. Like, wow, welcome. And I was like, where it was amazing. And so each one has been, I am actively aware that the pathways are opening up. It's opening new areas. So can we talk to the neuroplasticity and also the aspect of your higher self, because it really does feel like we're connecting in. Yes. I think you really put it nicely. There are really two categories of things happening when you receive ketamine therapy. There's first kind of the conscious or felt experience. And then there's the neurochemical experience. So maybe I'll start with the neurochemical side. What studies show is that people with depression and anxiety and trauma often have decreased neural activity in parts of the brain that are associated with regulating emotions and, you know, mood. And this means there are fewer neurons and they're not connecting as much. They're not firing to one another as much as they should be. What ketamine does is works on what's called the glutamate system and produces and stimulates the release of something called brain-derived neurotrophic factor, BDNF, and, you know, researchers scientists call that fertilizer for the brain, because what it does is it actually stimulates the production of new neural connections and strengthens existing connections, especially in that part of the brain. And so the science is still emerging in this area, but what they're showing is after receiving ketamine therapy and other psychedelics, there's often increased neural activity in those parts of the brain that were decreased before. And so there is in a literal sense new pathways and connections in the brain opening up. And we believe that leads to, you know, healthier thoughts and moods. And the other side of it, you know, in addition to that, you know, neuroplasticity and new connections, ketamine quiets what's called the default mode network, and that's the part of the brain that is engaged in self-referential thought, emotional processing, memory retrieval, you know, a lot of the stuff that happens, you know, around rumination, which you and I think of both experience. And so ketamine really quiets the activity in that area. And so, you know, between the neuroplastic effects, you know, growth in those areas you want and quieting in those other areas, you get kind of a rebalancing of the brain. And you know, I think one of the analogies I really loved is if you've ever gone skiing, you know, there can be a path and then somebody else follows the path and you get these tracks, they're just worn down. You keep going down the same paths over and over again, and that can happen with rumination and negative thoughts and those kind of things we tell ourselves over and over, you know, for me, every night I would get in bed and feel okay, and then I would lie down and close my eyes and immediately start thinking about all the things that could go wrong or had gone wrong and just spinning and spinning. And ketamine can be like a fresh coat of snow, and I'll let you put down new tracks, not go down those same worn paths you've been down over and over, but find new ways to think or proceed through your world. And I think that's incredibly powerful. Oh, man, it's like the Zamboni for I love that reminds me of mine Zamboni, another podcast title. Yeah, perfect. No, that really helps. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's the chemical side. And then there's the conscious experience and this can actually vary for different people and even for the, you know, one person in different moments. I think sometimes people have an experience that's kind of a dreamlike state where they're aware, but things are surreal. Sometimes they are kind of meditative and quiet and calm and not really thinking much. Sometimes people have, you know, really strong psychedelic experiences that are sort of hard to describe, but shifting, you know, reliving memories or visualizing things or hearing different parts of yourself or others, you know, speak to you. There's spiritual aspects where people often connect to God or, you know, a Holy Spirit or energy. And then there's this, you know, it's stronger doses. People often experience ego dissolution, really, where the self disappears. And that that's actually been the most powerful for me. I think I live so much of my life thinking about how do I seem? How am I acting? How are people perceiving me? And when that self drops away and you're just aware, you're aware, but you're not aware of yourself. There's this kind of boundless awareness. You feel this bliss and love, really, in connection to all things. And so I think those experiences, yeah, they can all be so powerful. I mean, what they often do, just like disconnecting from your normal thoughts and feelings for a little bit gives you this new perspective and you realize, oh, it doesn't have to be that way. I don't have to beat up on myself. I don't have to doubt myself. I don't have to worry, I don't have to punish myself for times where I didn't live up to my own standards and being that another way of thinking or feeling is possible is such a powerful thing. Because you don't always realize it when you're in the trenches, you know? Yeah, it's amazing. And as you share this, thank you for sharing that too, because that's a lot of my experience as well from from all those different touch points. And I think what happens then is we start to, yeah, we have these sessions, but it's, how are life transforms after? Can you just briefly share, maybe you've seen, maybe you shared before we got on the live recording here, how it can impact our relationships. It helps us make healthier choices. But what are kind of the outcomes in people's lives? Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think I can talk about two things here is one, where do we go and two, how do we get there? Maybe I'll start with, start with the how we get there. You know, after the session, we always recommend people journal for a little bit. And this is, it's not something I did a lot before ketamine therapy, but really I've continued to do it since even when I'm not, you know, doing a psychedelic therapy session. You often get out of this session and you just have these thoughts and experiences that can pour out of your brain. And it's great to get them on a page. I often say, you know, don't try to write anything. Just let the pen start moving. Yeah. I'm amazing what insights come out, even things you didn't realize during the session, maybe something was amorphous during the session and then it crystallizes afterwards. But you start writing stuff down and as you come back to, you know, your baseline mental state, you often can look over the page and say, Oh, right. I identify this pattern. You know, for me, it was like, I would identify a pattern where I'm always, well, I'll give you a specific example. Whenever I would have a problem or something come up, it would cause me stress. I often would have this kind of attraction aversion thing where I wouldn't deal with it right away, but I wouldn't let it go either. I would just have it at arms length, always in my vision, always worrying me rather than either fixing it or letting it go. I had this sensation of like drifting down, floating down the river with all my problems floating next to me. I wrote that down in my journal and then I would think about it and revisit it. And then when something would come up with work or with a relationship, I would find myself falling into that pattern again, kind of, okay, I'll deal with this later and then I'd get in bed at night and I'd worry about the thing, but then I wouldn't fix it the next day either. And it was like, Oh, right. This is me floating down the river with my problems again. Let's either decide to address it and deal with it right now or say, we're actually going to let this one go. We're not going to deal with you. Oh, wow. That's amazing. Yeah. And so I always revisit, you know, floating down that river, like am I floating down with my problems right now? I know so many people like that. Yeah. Oh, wow. And so, yeah, so often it's that experience of identifying a pattern or a thought or a behavior journaling about it, kind of crystallizing and saying, okay, I know what this is. I've put a name on this now and then being able to spot it later. And so, you know, I think what guides are really great for this integration process is helping people identify what those things are and then maybe come up with a little bit of a plan like, Hey, next time that comes up, what am I going to do? I'm going to replace that thought, you know, I'm going to replace this. What if thought with, you know what, I don't care about what if, you know, I care about what is, you know, I think the long term process. Yeah. And this is what gets to kind of the, the both the chemical aspect and the, the felt or conscious aspect. I think they really go hand in hand. And so when you're in this neuroplastic window, when your brain now has this fertilizer and is ready to make new connections and start new patterns or let go of old habits, that's when you can really think about these things, figure out how you might want to live a little happier, a little better, a little freer and start implementing some behavioral change, you know, letting things go, addressing things more quickly, showing yourself some compassion and really starting those behaviors as soon as you can so that you can help them set in and become just how you are. Oh, man, as you were sharing that, it's so beautiful. You really touched on it. You know, with a journaling, something that's very interesting, and I know you guys just integrated this is the talk to text part of journaling. Have you experienced that yet? Yes. I love this. I think a lot of times, oh, it's so cool. Yeah. And I'm so grateful to our team for coming up with this idea and implementing it so quickly. It's really exciting. But I think when you come out of a session, sometimes, or even when you're in a session, sometimes thoughts are a little unclear or even it can be weird to sit down and write or hard to actually hold the pen and sit there and write stuff down. My handwriting is terrible and sometimes it's even worse after a session, but being able to speak your thoughts or your visions and have them transcribed and written down and kind of summarized for you is really powerful. And I think just a great tool for helping people take these psychedelic insights, which sometimes are hard to conceptualize when you have a pen in your hand and help you verbalize them and get them down and then learn from them. Oh, my goodness. I know. And I want to share just my recent experience and then we'll close out with a final question because as we're talking on this, I think it's good for anyone listening just in my third session that I had with my mind bloom. I went into the ketamine therapy session, had my intention and everything and within like the first five minutes, really, all of a sudden I was crying. I hadn't had any emotional cries before. I had all the sessions of self love, but it was interesting because as I was crying, it was the first time in my entire life. Now mind you, I'm a water sign. I'm a highly empathic person. I'm highly sensitive. I'm a crier. I used to not be able to control my emotions and cried at everything. This was the first time in my life where I was crying and I couldn't feel anything and it wasn't that I was numb. It was an emotional release of and it was it was a beautiful experience. And afterwards, I shared and I couldn't really write because I was still processing. So I talked to text and then mind bloom app has this amazing thing where it's like, we will condense what you just dumped into us in your work place. I'd like word vomit and share what happened and it's a sentences. And in one complete sentence, it said, your experience of crying without feeling represents a profound shift on your healing journey that you're no longer suffering. Wow. And then I was just like, I felt it. And I was like, wow. And then it said, you know, how can you cultivate this new awareness moving forward? It just really showed the inner work is working and I'm so thankful for ketamine and mind bloom. I'm thankful for your time today. I think what we've offered is more insights into the program. If anybody has questions, reach out to me. I have emails of people you can reach out to at the mind bloom team and also I'm a proud mind bloom partner. You guys, everyone, you can save a hundred dollars with my code. I put all that in the show notes. But Michael, I would love to just close out with anything else you want to share that you're feeling in your heart. Your higher self is like, let's let's share this as we close out. Yeah. I think one last thing I'd share is that ketamine therapy can really be helpful for a broad range of issues. You know, we've talked today about depression, we've talked some about anxiety, but this medicine can be profoundly impactful for overcoming grief and loss, trauma, even getting on the stock. We have programs for burnout, you know, there are a lot of ways this can help. And I think when it comes to ketamine, there's a lot of stigma around it and psychedelics, and even just getting mental health treatment. And I hope people listening, understand that there are a lot of ways this can be helpful. And I hope if they're curious, they will reach out to learn more because we've helped a lot of people and we have so much ability now that wasn't in the world before to help. And so I hope people will start their healing journeys and will consider us on their path. Yeah. Thank you. And if you feel that call, you feel in your heart, trust it, you know, it's the best thing I ever did. Again, you can just use Shannon K 100 to save $100 off your program. But again, Michael, I want to thank you so much for your time today and for all the work you guys are doing at Mindbloom. I will thank you so much. This was really a pleasure, Shannon. I had a blast chatting with you today and I'm really grateful for you and your time.
