All Charged Up!
From Yellow to Green: The Electrification of School Bus Fleets
(upbeat music) - Hello, and welcome to All Charged Up, a podcast that brings state, county, and local municipality resources together with industry experts as we discuss a variety of topics, such as EV infrastructure, renewables, and the electrical contracting industry and DuPage. I'm your host, Karen Shervat, and in today's episode, we will be talking about the electrification of school bus fleets with Joshua Williams, senior Midwest regional manager, market development of Highland fleets. Josh, welcome to All Charged Up. You and I were part of a panel earlier this year that discussed this very topic, and I'm so very glad we were able to get you here today for a more in-depth conversation about communities making the transition to electric school buses. - Thank you, Karen, it's great to be here. On a daily basis, I get to talk about the benefits of electric school buses and get communities excited about this transition. - You're getting them all charged up. That's what you're doing. - Exactly, and I'm particularly honored to be here today as a parent of four young kids and DuPage County resident myself. Just really appreciate the work you're doing here locally to get communities excited about this. - Hold on a second. We've already sort of been work friends for a while. I did not know four children. - Four, indeed, yes, four girls. - Oh, God bless you. That's fantastic. School ages, I'm assuming. - We have one that's going into second grade, so we see school buses every day on a daily basis and two that are following shortly, and then one baby as well, that's just starting her journey. But yeah, keeps us busy, so I came here for a quiet afternoon. - Yeah, I love that, and I do remember the baby. But my goodness, well, that makes you just this expert all the way around, especially coming from that parent side, but that is just fantastic. And we're just gonna jump on in here now, Josh, right from the top. So why electric school buses? - Yeah, thanks, Karen. I think from our perspective, we're excited about electric school buses really for three reasons. Firstly, the technology is ready. These buses can be used on a daily basis to transport students to and from school safely and reliably. At Highland, we manage a fleet and have driven over two million miles fully electrified. So we see it every day that the technology's here and ready. - Well, that, I'm just gonna stop you right there, 'cause it just, a little thought just popped into my head, right? So right off the top, I'm gonna ask you, Josh, electric school bus built structurally any different than a traditional bus? - No, as far as what you see driving down the road, it looks almost the exact same. We've seen some of the electric school bus companies get creative and either put a blue bumper or a green bumper. Something to signify. - Love a green bumper. - Yeah, it looks great. Something to signify it is different, but as far as the shape and the outside look of the bus looks exactly the same. So instead of the diesel engine or gas engine at the front, you will have a battery that's really a place, kind of like a skateboard underneath the carriage. - Oh, that's a great analogy and super quiet. I remember my tour this spring and just being just amazed at how quiet these buses are. That's a huge change for sure, for sure. - Indeed, yeah. And so as far as why we're looking at school buses, again, they're ready for everyday use. One of the other factors is we really see an unprecedented amount of federal funding, federal and state funding, I should say. So we have things like the EPA Clean School Bus Program, which was several billion dollars that is being administered over several years. - B with a B. - B with a B, yes, you heard that right. And then we also have state level programs. So there's been a program that the Illinois EPA has been allocating really several times throughout the last couple of years. So now is a great time for schools to apply for that. And I should also say there's a new range of business models similar to what Highland does, really packaging everything together and making it more economical for school districts. So really what we're seeing now is the costs are being driven down and schools can access these buses really in a way that's on parity with traditional diesel buses. And so when we look at those two factors, the technology and the economics, and then you add up all the benefits of these buses, in our minds, it's more a question of why not start this transition. - Yeah, definitely. But I also know that people do have a ton of questions. And I think, and it's one of the reasons why I wanted to have you in today is to really kind of talk at this, broad stroke, 30,000 feet above the situation discussion and really kind of try and educate this grassroots level, why? And see if we can't answer some of the questions that I think I get a lot when I'm out and about and they hear, "Oh, electric school buses care. What about this?" And I have to answer it. So I thought, "Well, I'll put Josh on the hot seat today." Well, I'm gonna back myself up here a second. When you talk about the funding, Josh, we have some resources on our website, powerforward to page.com, thank you very much, that goes through all sorts of state and federal funding for EV charging infrastructure and the whole bollowax there. But is that something that maybe afterwards you can provide for our listeners just where they can have some resources to go? We can talk about it a little bit later, but I just wanna make sure that we don't forget. - Yeah, I would love to point out specific resources and specific funding opportunities that are up and coming. So a lot of times we see them from the US Environmental Protection Agency, the US Department of Energy also has a full host of programs. And then like I said, the state of Illinois has programs as well that local communities can apply and draw funding from. - Fantastic. Well, we will come back to that here in a few minutes. The other thing that just caught my ear as we were getting into this nitty gritty here is I know that there's been some recent news about industry layoffs and perhaps market demand not quite being the same pace as product availability, et cetera. Can you shed any light on that? - Yeah, we have to mention it at Highland. We're an electrification service provider and we're very proud to be technology agnostic, which means we get to work with a wide range of bus manufacturers. And from our perspective, competition is good and it's good to see a growing number of companies join this industry. I will say the EV industry on the whole as well as school buses, it's still early days. And so it does take time to create these companies from the ground up and takes time to start new manufacturing facilities. So we've seen that even with industry giants like Tesla, took a long time for them to get up and running. So I think we're optimistic that the industry as more companies join the product will get better, the cost will be driven down and more communities will wanna jump on board literally. - Yeah, I would agree, I would agree. And I love hearing about all the benefits, especially for the students from a health perspective. And I know you just touched upon it briefly, but there's also benefits for the community like savings for their school budgets. And then also taking a look at building more reliable resilient electric grids. And so I'm just wondering if we can talk a little bit on how the entire community can benefit. - Indeed, yeah, at Highland, when we work with the community, our first step is really meeting with the community leaders and also community members to understand what are their specific goals and objectives. And then we help them build a project from the ground up and to meet those goals. And to your question, I think we see a lot as far as the cost benefits for electric school buses. So by going to electric, schools are able to save a lot of money as far as the fuel that they use to power the buses. So electricity is much more economical than fluctuating diesel prices. And also where you get a lot of savings is the maintenance and repair of these buses. And so just one example here from the state, fortunate to work with a small school district called Hardin County. - Oh, we're saying. - It's in the southern tip of the state, right on the Ohio River, literally on the border. And it's a small school district of about 500 students. And they were fortunate to win an award from the EPA Clean School Bus Program. And by leveraging that award and partnering with Highland, they were actually able to save enough money where their superintendent plans to hire two additional teachers. - Oh, that's fantastic. - So it's really exciting for a district of 500 students to add two teachers, it's phenomenal. So, and that's just one example of how schools can save money. Briefly on your point to resilience and helping the local grid. Highland, we're really excited. Our long-term vision is to use these buses essentially as giant batteries. They're giant batteries on wheels. And so we wanna use them to support the grid. And in other territories across the country, we've been using them over the summer to participate in what's called demand response programs or vehicle to grid programs. And so while the bus is sitting there idle during the day, when students don't have to go to and from school, the bus can participate in these programs and actually generate revenue on behalf of the school. So we've done this in a few territories. And over the summer, a school bus can generate 10 to $12,000 by participating in these programs. - Yes, that partner through like comment or how does that-- - So where we've done it, the utility does need to have programs, typically a demand response program. So we've done it on the East Coast in Vermont in Massachusetts, but I commend, commend because really as we speak, they're preparing to pilot this vehicle to grid technology. And so I think within their territory, within the next year or two, school districts will be able to participate in similar programs. So it's great what they're doing here locally. - Sure, sure. And just really just adding another thing on the benefits side of the discussion for sure. Well, I also want to ask you a question. I get all the time about EVs. And I do think it's appropriate in the realm of this discussion as well. And, you know, Josh, like so many of my questions, it's a two part or so. First, what is the range? Like how far these buses go, right? How far can they travel on a full charge? And then second, you know, there are people that want me to ask the question, snow, ice, and cold. How does the cold snowy weather that we have here in the Chicago land area affect these buses? - Yeah, great question. And definitely want to address it. Growing up in Illinois, I know firsthand, we got to operate these buses through harsh winters. First, we'll start with kind of the favorable conditions. Typically, on a good day, an electric school bus will have 100 to 120 miles of range. - On a full charge? - On a full charge? - No kidding. - Or sufficiently charged, you know, we could talk about, you know, never fully, you know, charge a bus up to 100%. But when it's sufficiently charged, yeah, we could plan for 100, 120 miles. What's really exciting about that, though, is when you look at the average school bus route, in the morning, most school buses are going anywhere from 30 to 40 miles. And then in the afternoon, again, another 30 to 40. So-- - Oh, okay. - The vast majority-- - The vast majority of the day? - Yes, exactly. - That's awesome. - So that's really exciting. But then, you know, we always want to make sure students can get to and from school safely and on time. So we do have to plan for those harsher conditions. So your question about the winter. Typically, we can expect, in order to keep the bus heated, using the heater, could lose about 25% of that range. So worst case scenario, want to plan for about 70 miles a day. And what we can do, though, is charge midday. So the bus might go out, do its morning route, comes back to the depot, charges for a few hours, and is ready to go. But one thing I would like to highlight about electric school buses, and really just how exciting the innovation is, is the way that these batteries can be pre-conditioned at the start of the day. - Absolutely. - So nowadays, it's all done by software, and all a driver has to do is plug the bus in, at night after the route, and then overnight, the software can automatically really get the bus ready for the next morning's route. So it could decide when is the best time to charge the bus, and how do you get the battery at an optimal condition for starting that route, whether it's 5 a.m. or 6 a.m. - It's fascinating. - I like to highlight it, because diesel buses are also hard to operate in the winter. - Sure, sure. - A lot of times it takes a school staff member, or a driver, getting out there extra early, maybe putting a block heater on to make sure the engine's warm, or even idling the bus for 30 or more minutes, just to get the cabin temperature up. And with an electric, you don't have to use that extra time. So there's actually some really good benefits using an electric bus through the winter. - That's really cool. And then wondering, do some of them do pilot test routes when they're getting ready to launch their new program? Let's say the example you gave that had gotten the two buses, do they plan to have a timeframe where they like a trial, I guess you could say? - Yeah, how we like to partner with the school district is we always want to ensure that their local workforce is trained and ready for this transition. So usually what it looks like is the buses will arrive ideally a month or two before school starts, and then we'll do multiple days of onsite training. And we'll do that in partnership with maybe the dealer or the manufacturer, but it's really helping the bus drivers understand how to use these, drive these buses in a good way that manages the battery, manages the charge, and then we'll also work with the local maintenance staff to make sure they understand how to operate and maintain these buses. So it's very hands-on. We want to make sure that we bring the local workforce along with us for the journey. And we have seen once a bus driver or a maintenance technician, once they learn the new skill, they're actually really excited to add to their own skill set. So I think that's been an added benefit that we didn't predict, but it's been really cool to see. - Absolutely, that's really cool. And you manage that whole process from start to finish, I'm imagining, right? - We do, yes, at Highland we do it in partnership with the manufacturer. And then once the buses are used on a daily basis, we have field technicians that are basically on speed dial. If a bus driver has a question or a maintenance technician has a question, really we try to get back to them within 15 minutes at most. So we get to know our bus drivers really well. And I think the school districts that we're working with have really seen the benefit of giving a new skill to their local staff. - Sure, and of course, in a pinch, you can always reach out to your local qualified electrical contractors too, like you can find at powerforwardupage.com, right? - Of course, and-- - Of course, goes without saying, Josh. - Karen, yeah, thank you for mentioning that. As part of Highland's service, we always work with local partners. That includes when we build out an electrified depot, we're working with local contractors, and we've really enjoyed our experience working with IBEW and NECA chapters across the country in a wide range of settings, including urban, suburban, and even rural projects. - That's fantastic, and you know, we are the best, so I can get on board with that for sure. You know, I've noticed too on YouTube, you guys have your own bus talk series. So when we talk about other resources, I wanna kind of get into that a little bit, and I wanna have you talk just a little bit about Highland's bus talk series, because you guys have some really great information that you've been putting out through that platform. - Yeah, I appreciate that. So, you know, we wanna get local communities excited. Everything from parents and families through to school administrators, and we thought one of the best ways to do that is to talk about electric school buses in really bite-sized chunks, and so we've created our own series that we post on YouTube. It's called bus talk. - I love it. - And it just talks through kind of the basics of electric school buses. - Like we're doing here today. - Yeah, exactly. And a little bit more of the visuals, so we do have one episode where we actually walk through a depot with a local contractor, and we talk about what's the thought process of putting in chargers and building out the infrastructure upgrades. We also have episodes about vehicle to grid and other considerations, so. - That's great. - It's been really fun to just do it in bite-sized chunks, and of course, you know, again, four kids, so we use videos and YouTube all the time, so it's just accessible that way. - Definitely, and then let's talk a little bit more to about some additional resources that you might point people to when they're getting their communities, or trying to get their communities in their local school districts excited and involved in bringing this to their community. - Yeah, I think there's a lot of great resources out there. First, I would recommend connecting with local advocacy groups. - Oh, yes. - So here in Illinois, we have some great groups. For instance, the Environmental Law and Policy Center, Moms Clean Air Force, a really great group that puts out resources, and then also Electrification Coalition that can really collate a lot of industry experience, and so we'd recommend connecting with groups like that to understand, you know, how to start this process. The other thing I would mention is connecting with thought leaders that have kind of blazed the trail already. - Oh, sure, they've already done it. - Exactly. - Yeah, brilliant. - In Illinois, we have a couple of thought leaders. We have a good friend of ours named Tim Farker. He's a superintendent of Illinois School District. - Oh, you went, Tim, that's great. - At the event, Tim's great. - Yeah, he's great. Another success story. - Yes, he's really kind of led the way and really, from start to finish, has adopted electric school buses, and he's really passionate about helping other districts understand how they can use these buses to benefit their communities. - Yeah, maybe we'll put up a little thing about Tim. Tim's district two on our little list of resources we're gonna put together. I think that would be great for people to have a way to read about Tim and his success. - Let's just see here. Now, I know we've kind of talked a couple of different things here, resources and getting the community involved, but I just feel like you've got to look at everything sort of holistically, right? So as we kind of wrap up, I would say, you want to involve your community leaders, district leadership, local school boards, of course, and local municipalities, and then encourage everybody to sort of work together when looking to make the transition to electric. Is that right? Would you say that's maybe the winning formula? - I think so, I mean, as the adage goes, it takes a village and it literally does in this case. And we've seen from the projects we work on, they're most successful when every layer of the community is involved and bought into it. And so just like you said, getting the families involved, school administrators, local workforce involved, it really helps set a project on the path to success. - Well, for sure, and it also allows for that, you know, that time where people are getting to ask their questions and make sure that they really understand all that's involved and all the benefits. And I would think upfront is when you want to kind of dispel myths and maybe highlight case studies and really just make sure that everybody that's on board has earned trust and thinking collaboratively on how it's actually going to get done. - I would fully agree, trust is important from start to finish and really we're in it, these projects for the long term. So it doesn't end when the buses arrive at the district. We want to make sure that ultimately, students get to and from school safely every day and trust is a big part of that. - Absolutely. Well, Josh, I just want to say thank you so much for weighing in with your thoughts and of course, bringing the knowledge and expertise that you have to us today. I really, really appreciate it. And, you know, we're excited for the future over here and you know us, we're all charged up and ready to go. And just want to say thank you again for joining us. - Well, thank you, Karen, it's really an honor to be here and I appreciate all the work you're doing at Power Forward DuPage. And hopefully we can support communities to bring these buses to our students. - I love it, beat, beat. Let's go all the way through Illinois, I'm here for it. And I also want to say as we wrap up today, thank you to our gracious in studio production team, the Multimedia Services Department at College of DuPage, thank you everyone. You've been listening to All Charged Up with me, Karen Sharvat of Power Forward DuPage. Power Forward DuPage represents over 300 of the most highly sought after electrical contractors in the Chicagoland area. We support the electrical contracting industry here in DuPage County, Illinois and act as a resource for its municipalities, businesses, and residents. You can find us at Power Forward DuPage.com. And until next time, keep powering through. 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