[Music] What you are basically. [Music] Deep deep down, far far in, is simply the fabric and structure of existence itself. [Music] [Music] The fabric and structure of existence itself. Hi everybody, welcome to the Paralomite podcast. Today we are joined by a returning guest, hockey coach and author PJ Baez. And we're going to be discussing archetypes around the father. And also we might get into a little conversation about PJ's upcoming book. But before we get started, PJ, how's things going? I've heard you've had some big life changes recently. Yeah, Mike, you're here from you. Again, man, it's such an honor and blessing to be back with you, man. It's always good. Yeah, Mike's been pretty eventful for me. I would just tell maybe you and even the audience that basically in the last month, I've added three titles. Or I'm about to add my third one, but I've added three titles to my name. So I became a husband and uncle. My sister just had a little baby about a week ago. And my wife and I were expecting our own baby, a little boy in about three weeks. So maybe even sooner, I actually work the way that she's kind of going along. I think it could be a little bit sooner. So basically within a one month span, I got married about three weeks ago now too. So a month, month and a half of that father, uncle and husband. So it's a lot, man. Things are click and things are moving. Yeah, well, congratulations from all of us. It's a beautiful thing to see you get married and also for your baby. And I would be surprised if your wife, Siobhan, had the baby before the end of his podcast. Just seen her and if she came back and said, my water's broke, I wouldn't be surprised. So we'll see how it goes. Maybe this will be a special podcast. But yeah, you have a lot, PJ. And what's really interesting is when we first spoke on the very first podcast we did together, it was one of my earliest podcasts I found you because you reached out on Twitter. You said that you had my show and you liked it. And you also directed me towards your book, which I've read. And then we had a conversation. You literally just got back from going it alone. You'd gone to the wilderness to spend six months out there in Northern Canada, where he was taking care of a ranch and kind of getting back in touch with masculinity and being a man and looking after all of this land and property and also getting your skills up. But you didn't have a wife. You didn't even have a girlfriend. And we had lots of conversations about this. And you decided to go back to the city to find that wife. And now you're married and you're about to have a baby. So wow, a lot has changed in two years. It's wild, man. It's funny how you can see things in real time, eh? Because you're right. Like I still obviously remember the first podcast and you and I meeting and talking. And that was more than probably what a year and a half ago, close to two years. And in a way, like Mike, you've been a big part of like being able to witness a part of the progression of one stage in life to the next. And yeah, man, because obviously again, like just kind of a quick review. Like for me, like during COVID, I was living in like downtown Toronto and single and. And not, I wouldn't say like I wasn't bad or anything, but I can definitely recognize just a lot of immaturity and a lot of just, yeah, just immaturity of kind of living the modern lifestyle. And then obviously COVID happens and all the, the scyop and all the nonsense. And in that time, I really felt like, yeah, God led me to a place of just. A place where I was intentionally meant to kind of grow up and mature. And I think that's even a big part about talk about archetypes and manhood and fatherhood. And I recognize now like how God had really set that time apart for me. So I think prepare for the things I'm going for now because, you know, even just as we were getting ready for this podcast. One of the key parts of a manhood initiation, and this is where we just don't have this in modernity anymore, is that a man needs to be separated away from the clan to be tested and to grow and to be separated from his own family, his own support network and his own communities so that he can learn to be independent and walk for himself and develop for himself. And learning that as the man, like I'm actually the primary source of dependence for my family. And I can't be the one like deriving energy and motivation for my wife and my children, basically, like I need to be the one to provide for them. And I need to be a rock for them and I need to be strong for them because Mike, man, I'm telling you like it's a really special thing. Like my life is not my own now. And as somebody who I get like, I don't know if the audience would care, but like I've been single most of my life. I kind of fell for the hockey lifestyle of the party and just kind of you get influenced by your culture, right? And I think for me now to be like married. I'm like, oh my gosh, man, like my life is not my own. Like my heart is not my own. My entire life is wrapped up in my wife and my child and my own family. And it's a special thing to look at because you're right two years ago living on the farm. I still remember like being out in the woods, man, just like thinking and even praying or wondering about marriage. And the rings on the finger fella, the rings there, she's on, she's on. I'm in for good. So what a roller coaster, honestly, man, it's going to be hard for me to even articulate a lot of the things that I'm feeling to you today because it's been so fast, like the whirlwind. Yeah, husband, uncle, and soon to be father, it's a lot. Yeah, it's amazing. And, you know, it's interesting because you went out to the ranch PJ. And I guess that kind of suggests that some of the things that you was doing out there on the ranch are things that normally, let's say if you go back a hundred years or maybe even 60, 70 years. Those are the skills that our fathers would have taught us, right? So we'd have been taught how to go out and fish, go out and hunt, take care of chickens and animals, how to be a leader, how to embody that role of protective of the family. We'd have looked up to our fathers and seen that. And yet you did it, I guess yourself, you went out to this farm to do it. So I'm guessing that this isn't something that you had before and maybe your own relationship with your father, which we may or may not get into today. I don't know, and wasn't that father's relationship where you was taught all of these skills. And why do you think that is PJ? When we look around society today, there are no real good role models of that loving, protective father that let's say there's an archetype of a father and you've got good and bad. I don't see any good archetypes of good fathers anymore. I don't see it in the media, I don't see it in society, and we know we've got a catastrophe in terms of single parenthood and the consequences of that which we'll get into later. So why do you think that is Peter? Do you think this is a concentrated effort to destroy families and destroy masculinity in society? Well, that's for sure, but that's what I was going to say, because even about the ranch real quick, it was kind of one of those experiences where I remember the karate kid when he's there in the very beginning, and then the old masters like, "Oh yeah, I learned how to do a wax on wax off on the car and then paint the brush up and down." And he's like, "This is ridiculous." And at the very end, he just kind of assumes, "Oh, this old man was using me to get him to paint his fans and wax his car." And he kind of realizes, he's like, "No," and he starts punching him, and he's using wax on wax off to do all that stuff. You don't even really realize what's being done. And I think that's what my experience was and how I see how a lot of those skills and even just sort of that independence that was developed, how useful and how necessary that was for my own marriage and for my own development as a man. I must say I think your question, there's a historical argument to that, and you can talk about the influence of culture. I'm actually reading a book right now called Boomers, How the Boomer Generation Ruined Society by a woman called Helen Andrews. She writes for the American Conservative. That's kind of says that after the World War II Generation, the Boomers, they were the first kind of real selfish generation that really pursued their self-interest, their materialism, and through that divorce became such a norm. And I think that the impact of divorce is really starting to reveal and show its effect, especially on you and I, we're both millennials, and the generations younger. I really felt the hurt and the impact I think of the divorce and the impact of like the sexual revolution and hook up culture and just people doing one night stands and numerous sexual partners and doing the biggest one, man. I'm just realizing again all the time, like how dangerous and impactful pornography has been. Pornography has just been a ravaging wildfire and dried tender, like it's really impacted manhood and masculinity and the way that we think about these things and. So those are like the basic kind of like cultural and historical influences that we are kind of raised up within modernity, but I would just say that one of the biggest things that are attacking young men today is that we don't really kind of get the experiences that I sort of had where you have to learn to separate yourself from being dependent and start to learn that independence. And that means both like physically and emotionally, financially, because young men now are so emasculated and so feminized, especially in our school systems like again, I don't know what it was like for you in Britain, but here in Canada, I believe statistically my sister's a teacher she told me about this I think it's about from kindergarten so that would be like little kid you're like four, maybe years old 45 to grade six, I believe nine out of 10 teachers are female, and I worked as a teacher for a little bit to actually during coven and I couldn't believe just like the hyper feminization of the men, because Mike I'm telling you man like when I went in there as a teacher, like the kids all the little boys are like there and they'd be kind of like getting a little feisty and stuff and then they kind of be like getting a little like a little rasply and I loved it and then I'd show up and they'd be like oh no like we're sorry Mr. Bise like I'm sorry for I was like no boy like have at her and before knew they were kind of like wrestling or like we're all sliding on like just doing normal boy things and I couldn't believe the impact that I found on these little like these boys at the school because instead of every sort of instinct being minimized by their female teachers like all of a sudden toxic traits so to speak where we're not being called toxic or they're almost being encouraged and so definitely the way that we're teaching young boys now a day but I don't know Mike I'd just say like the bigger part though too and this is where we're probably going to start getting some of the more difficult stuff is that a man I really think needs to learn his calling and find independence particularly from God. Yeah I think you are talking about just how important that role of fatherhood is critical to humanity you know when it comes to having a healthy society and raising good citizens obviously that starts with the family so you need to have good strong leaders and that father role in the family is protector is provider and of course a lot of this has been distorted to all of these ideologies feminism for example they said that you don't need a father. What has happened is the state has become the father so the woman can marry a man or she can marry herself to the state who will provide education give her just enough money to survive. Now PJ and I know we're not going to go down this route too much but in terms of immigration and the increase in violence and sexual violence and violent attacks against men and women in our societies and all of a sudden people are realizing we do need men because there's no protectors left there's nobody here to protect but it's not just a protecting role it's also actually being a leader and you know we actually used to see kings or politicians even if you had a really good one it was like the father of a nation and now look what we've got we've got tyrants and despots and people like your face sake just in Trudeau people like this who are they embody that negative aspect of the father right and then of course it goes to a spiritual level too in which we all have a creator who is the father of everything so we've got different levels of father but I think it starts at home I think in our own little world we are our own kingdom and you've got a king and a queen or husband and wife and call it what you want but that is really where it should begin and if you get it right there then you can expand it out to a community and you can expand it out to a society and expand it out to the entire world. So I think that's why they've chipped away at our families so much PJs they understand this if you break the family you break the society and then you break civilization and that allows these despots and these evil tyrants the evil fathers to take control for sure man there's so many things to touch on there because again like all kind of speaking out to our generation because I think of the way that when we think of a politics now we interpret things through so much through the boomer or through the older generations because they're the ones who control the positions of power and they don't give them up like you got crummy dirty old Joe Biden honking around like that they're like it's a bit like he's not alone in that but now you gotta look at what have been the impacts of these things on the younger generation and I would say like you talk about like feminism for example like I think a lot of women now are kind of waking up to the fact that like oh I was told that if I worked in a corporate office till I was 35 I would be happy and then I would sort of get married after like living it up and partying till I was 35 and then I would just like find a man and he would love me and I would get I would have children you know there's an old you know it was actually the socialist and the communist funny or not the communist but the socialist argument for for years which is kind of funny to think about which is that they said the most enslaved person and the most enslaved a woman especially could be was enslaved to like the corporations into the workforce and we just kind of bought into that like kind of capitalist myth which is that if you have this like job and career and you'd be successful that would be your source of a meaning and substance and met women especially really fell for that and I think among the millennials and a lot of the women I know it's just it wasn't really the answer and I just say like that was one of the things that my wife had to kind of work through too but she kind of believed that but then she kind of recognized like early on thankfully that like oh she was working and had this career and she wasn't really feeling it she wasn't really feeling fulfilled and then and then yeah then you get married and then you have a kid and I'm telling you Mike like there's no one more excited on the earth than well myself as well but like my wife about like the idea of having a child and man it's so awesome and so exciting and the amount of like joy that we're depriving ourselves of as a society man like we're really depriving ourselves of good things too because you talk about like the breakdown of the nuclear family and sure there's like the again the societal impact of that and the political impact of how like the despots and the tyrannical governments can really take over and use that to their advantage but it's not even like that's the biggest part about it it's that for men and women the amount of joy that they deprive themselves from in being married and in having children like man like this is some of the greatest blessings you can receive and I think about myself man like my little guy's not even here yet and obviously it's already it's still tough for me to talk about it because it doesn't seem real yet but sure man I scored some big goals in my life hockey or I've had some mass like you get a degree or like different things that people consider achievements but man like being married or having a child I'm like nothing is even coming close to this and I kind of kick myself sometimes I'm like frick I should have I wish I knew this stuff earlier I wish somebody told me but I guess I'm learning it all now and sorry and then the last thing too Mike the last thing on that because you talk about archetypes too and like the need for a father young men especially have been like so deprived of that and they've been looking for that like we could all talk about like the influence of Jordan Peterson for example I'm a Canadian psychologist and philosopher who's become massive and I can't tell you how many he's just a staple name now you talk to any young man under the age of 35 or 40 they all know who Jordan Peterson is because he's speaking to something that they're all needing and they're all missing and he's kind of become that like sort of bodily figure of knowledge and reason to a lot of young men but they just never really received in the school systems and the education or even in their own family life but the other thing too that's kind of gotten a bit twisted in this is sort of the archetype too of like the how I say like the Andrew Tate's which is that a real image of a man is someone who's like super tough and like doesn't and it's just like all I can beat up anybody and someone who was like can never be wrong and that's it's funny because when I think about now what it means to be a real man so to speak or even to be like a father or what our society is actually missing now it is the greatest Christian virtue is love so you could talk about like a father who is like yeah strong and tough and protector not obviously disagreeing that those are good qualities and they're certainly needed and required but man the greatest virtue is love and that's the part where I really see where we've missed out is that so many men and women missed out from a loving relationship with their father and love is the answer man it really is the answer because when we talk about some of the archetypes now like that's where I'm really recognizing and seeing where where I think denying like the teachings of the Bible and denying some of the teachings of the scriptures that's where we're seeing the influence now because yeah like our society's kind of gone in two directions one is sort of the yeah kind of like soft to feminine like kind of pushover man who's just going to bend over and do whatever the state tells him to do but then the other one now is sort of like red pill man sort of the androids of the world who have no respect for women and they just see women as objects and they're all about like making money and if you don't make money you're not a real man and if you're not tough like that's actually not a good response either that's sort of the response to the sort of like weak woke feminist side and the red pill movement is also not really the answer like that's not the answer either so anyway lots of thoughts there like we every time you ask me a question I ramble on so my apologies but yeah well I think the situation is getting pretty desperate for both men and women it's not just men who are affected by this it's women because they're not being given the men that they should have and they deserve when they're raising a child and all of a sudden they expect these men that they have potentially played a part in emasculating and reducing in terms of their importance socially to all of a sudden be responsible and be able to step up and be a caring loving father in a potential of the family when that man hasn't had that and society's told that man no you can be a forever child you can just go out and party and all of a sudden we want a responsible man in the house and that's not going to happen so it's a dualism that's happened and we've both contributed to it and of course if you're not having those role models as a child if your father's not giving you that because his father didn't give him that then it gets worse and worse and worse with each generation and the system offers up pretty much what you said it gives you either this weaker feminine man who represses all of his true masculine traits and it comes out as passive aggressiveness so men that are seeking to accept for the men and hair of the men but not directly because the cowardly so I would say that's the weakest of the male archetypes it's a coward is somebody who seeks to do things sneakily that's who Trudeau is you're a Trudeau just use him as the example of he's the worst man he's the worst fantastic example politicians often embody this example because they are people who seek power that is not of the traditional type in terms of physicality they don't have that so how can I dominate and go for hierarchies a man well I need to do something where I can do it with the voice and orders and dictates because I can't do it physically and I saw a funny video of one of the British politicians Kia Stanner the other day and he went to a boxing club and they put some gloves on him and he punched the punch bag and honestly the punch bag almost punched him back it was so weak the bag swinging almost broke his arm and I just thought wow this is what we love today as the leaders these people who are you know he literally couldn't even throw a punch but my point in all of that is that's one archetype which is this weak snively snake like man and then on the other side is the Andrew Tate which is the hyper masculine hyper material hyper selfish form of manhood which is like yeah let's just you know sleep with as many women as we can monies all that matters and I would say they're just as happy putting Andrew Tate out there as they are the weak snively man in fact they probably are pushing pushing the Andrew Tate one more now because they know it's kind of the counter reaction to the weak snively man is let's have this hyper masculine and for those listeners who think they are against Andrew Tate and they're trying to persecute him that's all part of the story it's not true Tate essentially is somebody who embodies hyper materialism which is precisely what our age is he's kind of like the archetype of Lucifer you know listeners will remember that when you read the Bible Lucifer he offers Jesus control over the material world so all of the money the fame the power in the material realm well that's kind of what Andrew Tate is offering men too yeah you can be the man that has all of the flashcards you can have all of the women and you can have with the men look up to you so it's that kind of hyper materialism I agree with you completely PJ and what we're getting at is where is the good archetype in that where's the man that actually synthesizes and become somebody that's well adjusted because we're talking here about something that's completely unbalanced you know all of the worst weak traits of men and all of the worst masculine traits of men but what we're looking for is somebody that actually embodies all of them kind of like a Marcus Aurelius figure is why I'd say so handing it back to you PJ let's talk about the positive traits of the male archetype of the father what do you say they are for sure well I'm glad you asked me that cuz you know I just I'm gonna read a little snippet from my book here cuz you're right you even talk about like say the the entertain the I'd say like the greatest essence of the real kind of like male archetype is itself denial and service to others and you talk about like leadership being weak or like an entertain is kind of wrong in a lot of ways because it's all you're right it's all about building up himself building up his own ego and building up his own kingdom so to speak and I'd say the true essence of manhood is a service to others and you know I'm just gonna read a real quick thing here cuz it just kind of reminded me so I said yeah modern education and politics. There's a reason why the universities have created safe spaces for young people and they hate free speech they do not hate speech but they oppose speech that would deny them their entitlement to other people's things. The political ideologies of the 20th and 21st century so worshiped in the universities are primarily grounded upon envy. The wise kings of old new long ago that the development of spiritual character was through the refining fire of suffering and not around it or the absence of it. The leaders seldom found now in our modern age understood these principles about suffering and justice and through the fire of suffering they developed great character for true leaders are courageous and they are not focused on themselves. Just like Christ true leaders are focused on the good of others before themselves for true leadership true manhood and true courage is not about self glorification but self emptying. Intereficing yourself to be the bridge that others walk across does not rest upon something weak like self esteem but it comes from the inner integrity and confidence that understands the meaning and importance of loving and protecting others before yourself. It means women and children get off the sinking ship first it means taking the hit to make the play and it means standing up for the week when they cannot stand up for themselves. It means being the first in the battle and last in retreat and I would say like so much of what encompasses a true male archetype is what I just kind of said a self emptying and self denial of self for love for others. And I'd say that's what we're missing man like that's just not what we're that's that's kind of what we're not seeing and it is man, it's hard not to get discouraged at times because telling man I'm a Canadian and Mike as you like to make a jokes about I look like Justin Trudeau. I think when we look at someone like him it's so discouraging and so frustrating because apart from his endless list of scandals and his smugness and his narcissism. I think the part that really ups like the thing that's most upsetting about him is exactly what you just kind of said. There's no sense at all of like a leader who's willing to sacrifice like his own well being for the good of his people, like there's just no like no instance of sacrifice a leadership of courage of truth of bravery. There's nothing and also he's not the only example like you can use that to a lot of different leaders but man like what is a real leader look at you look at somebody like an eragorn you talk about I don't know if you read Lord of the Rings before if people are familiar like he's an embodiment of the proper male archetype like he's somebody who was humble and kind and lowly obviously if you remember the books he was actually strider for most of the time he was this kind of lowly ranger who would just kind of go around and help people and fight in different battles to serve people and he was going through a period of being in the wilderness so to speak of growing and nurturing his manhood and his masculinity the true heir and the true King of Condor so to speak but when he comes into the fold as the proper and true leader what does he do he fights right from the front and he doesn't retreat he doesn't put men before himself so you'll fight he leads the charges he leads the fight and even at the very end the last battle he's the one that approaches the black gate of Mordor and comes in there and takes on evil head headlong and head head first like he doesn't advocate his responsibilities and duties to others he takes it upon himself and man that's a really really powerful things so self denial discipline love for others like that's that's kind of getting in some of the things that we're talking about you say something quick to you know you nailed it with Aragon that's exactly what I was thinking earlier on today Peter I was thinking about good examples from films and TV and Aragon was what came to mind mind as well he's strong he's powerful he's also capable of doing what needs to be done even if that means killing and I think that's a key part of it too it's not negating the masculine traits the point where it's all diplomacy because there are people out there who will embody the opposite trait the invasion of whatever you've got in terms of goodness they'll have the invasion of that in terms of evil so you know he's somebody who uses his power for justice and that's a key part of the male archetype as well understanding justice equity and not the modern version of equity we're talking about equity. Yeah what else could we add to that P.J. Netch is people raises worries leads by example all the things you just said oh let me add one let me add one and this is again the other one he's very like he's very loving and he's actually very intimate the movies don't really capture this as well but again another I would say key aspect of biblical masculinity which Aragon really encapsulate very cap chilies very well it's called the warrior poet you have somebody like King David or even Jesus of course obviously we'll get to him I'm sure at some point but sure they can fight they're in the battle they lead they will go fight the glieth and take on the enemies but also they're very intimate and they're very emotional and they're very poetic obviously like the Psalms of David are a good example of that but David was known for being very emotional he would often weep he would love his children he would love his people and Aragon you see that very much in the books like with Arwen like the first time he calls out there he's I don't want to expose my inner geek here and inner nerd but like it says that he called her to no val which is like a reference to an earlier part in the book which is he was so enraptured and amazed by her beauty that he starts singing to her and throughout the novels and in the books like you can just see this passionate love which is expressed through singing and poetry and emotion and he was the integrated man like you know he had control of his emotions but would also allow his emotions to overtake him at times to feel them he was powerful but he wasn't afraid of being sensitive and intimate with his partner or with his love in that scene and I remember that from the film as well yeah he was the integrated man in that you know if you look at someone like Andrew Tate for example he is so narcissistic like he would never show himself as sensitive he would never happen he's masculine he comes from a place of real fear fear of not being enough fear of being a weak man fear of somebody else seeing him as somebody who's not in that idealized role whereas the man that is fully integrated can be vulnerable you know they can say but also can overcome vulnerability and fear and actually step up when the time comes it's that complete synthesis of the personality and exactly cuz I'm yeah cuz I'm cuz I'd say and then on the flip side though and like that's where the perfect balance is because I'd just say one of the game on the hard part for men I'm not most of my life is around man probably more young men like because I'm a hockey coach and right now as a university hockey coach all the kids that I teach are 18 to 23 kind of range but it's learning to you have to be vulnerable and that's the greatest way to express it because vulnerability to the right people at the right times and in the right form of justice though because on the flip side you have to be careful because because in distinction from era and we'll just use Justin Trudeau again where Justin Trudeau embodies everything that's effeminate and weak and the incorrect unjust version of of sensitivity and emotion because you know what I'm telling you but like when he goes up and he he apologizes for like injustices committed against like a particular I don't know say like the Japanese internment camps or he'll he'll apologize on behalf of all Canadians for like the mistreatment of 300 years ago in Canadian history and he's up there and he's crying and he's weeping he's like oh no like that is that's not it it's not associated with justice because you're right because weakness and sensitivity and emotion can also be associated with the cowardly archetype as well but airborne or even Christ it has to be associated with true like vulnerability sensitivity it has to be associated with proper justice in the right way in the right form because I would say you're right a man who's married and is not emotionally vulnerable for his wife and not emotionally available cut off cold stoic and that's why I'd actually disagree a little bit with your Marcus Aurelius analogy from earlier I've read the meditations Aurelius is great. He's not the he's not the correct archetype because again so much of the stoic philosophy is pure reason rationalism. Humans were not pure reason like we're not just pure reason there's so many capacities and Marcus Aurelius does talk a lot about the Supreme God you know talks about how there is a Supreme being and our desire to ensure that we act in accordance with his wishes and laws has he sees it. It does talk a lot about nature but I know what you're saying about a stuckness but I think for me personally I think that's more necessary today than vulnerability I think when I talk about vulnerability I think I mean the ability to allow emotions to surface in their natural form without pushing them down or redirecting them towards an inauthentic emotion at that time so for example if somebody feels sadness allowing sadness to be expressed rather than pasting it over with anger you know which some people will do men often do this so if they're feeling something if they're feeling hair if they're feeling betrayed if they're feeling let down rather than be vulnerable in a moment to the emotion they'll try and paste over the emotion whereas I think stoicness is also the ability to recognize one's emotions but not allow them to completely dominate oneself as well which is really important because of course in life there's many times where you have emotions that will be there and you have to recognize the model come out in a passive, aggressive way or some way that you don't want that you've got to recognize them but then you've also got to be able to control them in the moment because you've got duties and that's why I like about stoicism but I take I take your point in that. He had a lot of challenges his wife potentially had an affair he had assassination attempts because he was a he was in the role of not just husband and father but he was also father of the nation of the Empire should I say he had this other role as well which was a very unique and then believe me what I yeah believe me when I say this if Mark Aurelius was here today right now and he was fighting to be our leader I'd be like all in let's get that guy in power. Of course like he is he's not knocking Marcus Aurelius I would say he's number two on the top list of male archetypes he's right up there but here's what I would try to develop that maybe a little bit more is that one of the problems of the 21st century as an influence of the romanticism of the 18th century probably as a response to the rash hyper rationalism of the 17th century is we now associate feelings with truth. And that's also like the moneyless and younger especially is like if you feel a certain way then that's objectively true and that gets us pushed as radical as like say something like transgenderism where my interior feeling is truth regardless of objective reality around me. Or you know there's this quote that they say or that just because you're hurt or offended by something doesn't mean that you're right. And I would say the way that millennials reason and speak is that if they feel something to be true or if they feel like it's right or wrong that inner subjective feeling is associated with truth which is just objectively false. And that's where stoicism is a good proper and healthy response which is probably necessary for our modern society because it's the proper balance to reason or sorry to passion and to emotion because we're overly emotional now and we're really associating emotion and feeling with truth in our modern age. But here's the trick though and like and here's the thing. And this is where say someone like a Jordan Peterson. And he falls in this category a little bit but like where Jordan Peterson is both incredible, but he's also not quite exactly right from my perspective and here's why. And so a response of sort of balancing your emotions or overcoming your your emotions with duty discipline and self control. It doesn't. Let's say for medics, we still do have feelings though. Like men still do have anger they do have anxiety they do have these genuine deep heartfelt feelings and emotions that they don't really know what to do about. And they see someone like a Jordan Peterson and one of Jordan Peterson's responses to this has been as we all probably know like put make your bed in the morning. Overcome suffering and hardship and your feelings emotions with discipline and with carrying your cross and carrying your burdens. Yes I agree with that to some extent. But this is the this is it man is now we're starting to get into the really deep stuff what I'd say about like the heart of like the gospel the heart of Christianity is that with a Marcus Aurelius archetype or even a Jordan Peterson. Who's the one who's still personally responsible for bearing the load and bearing the responsibility of the existence itself. It's you. He still places the primary burden of responsibility upon the self. And I would say the distinction between a true Jordan Peterson message between what he's saying in Christianity is that in Christianity, the true archetype. The the proper representation of reality is that Christ actually is the one who carries and bears the primary load of responsibility Christ is the one whose power and whose spirit embodies and dwells within you to empower you. The self is not responsible and cannot be responsible for carrying the load and burden of existence itself. And that's where Jordan Peterson for example trust me again like I have the most respect for Jordan Peterson if I saw him like I would just be like. God bless you man honestly incredible man really incredible. But if I had a chance to talk to him I would just say like that's a little bit of the difference is that it's not the individual self that carries the load it's it's Christ who comes and carries it and does it for you. And, and this is, I don't know if you want to come into this mic because like I want to launch into a few of the lessons I've learned from the Bible and even in my own experience. And something that I think I'm going to be learning to apply to my own lessons as a father man is that the notion of the self being the one responsible. We'll just kind of like summarize it in that sense self as responsible. It slips into a lot of our Bible stories too and the way that we think about the Bible for example give you an example. The story of David and Goliath right if you're a little kid in church or if you're even a person and listen to a sermon. You'll often hear this about the story of David and Goliath like you probably know the story right but for the audience real quick. Goliath is a giant is a dirty old Nephilim Mike he's a he's a Nephilim but no he's a he's a giant obviously 10 foot high stronger than all get out. He's got the shield he's got the spear that nobody else can carry he's so big and strong and he keeps challenging the Israelites every day. I defy you in the name of like in the name of my God Israelites that I would like to story and defeat you but all the Israelites are scared and they're all weak and they're all cowardly and they don't want to take on Goliath. And then David shows up King David and he's just a little a little shepherd boy from the field and he's been out there and he is like no I can do it like let me take on Goliath and they're like no David you can't like you're this little shepherd guy you won't be able to do it and he's like no no no like I took on I defeated a bear I defeated a lion I can take on I can take on Goliath. And then also what happens he David shows up Goliath last time then Davis is like I defy you in the name of the Lord God of Israel and he throws a sling and he nails him and he cuts his head off. And then the overall teaching from that is like yeah like be like David like David can go and take on his problems and conquer the world and take on mountains and you can do all these things and blah blah blah. And that's actually not the proper message of the teaching because we like to associate ourselves as the David person taking on being brave and taking on tyranny and evil and injustice. You and me Mike no maybe not you Mike you're you're pretty special guy but for the rest of us you're not living in an inferior space. You are not David you and me are the weak cowardly soldiers who are fearing and fighting Jesus is David you and I are the weak kind of soldiers. Like that's actually the proper interpretation but we get so immersed with this notion of self that oh the self is capable. This is the tricky part man actually I'd say as as humans a part of our laws and a part of our corrupt sort of sinful nature is that we love to put the self as the center of focus and as the center of burden responsibility. But with Christianity with Jesus it's different because Jesus comes around and you see this in the scriptures everywhere and he says no no no this story isn't about you my friend the stories about me. I will come and carry the responsibility I will be the one who bears the burden I'll be the one who takes a I'll be the one that takes it all upon myself on the cross. Come to me all you who are weak and heavy laden and with burden and I will give you rest take my yoke upon me for my yoke is easy my burden is light. He's the one that actually has the power not necessarily you and me and when his spirit comes I read this the other day in Zechariah chapter four not by power or by my but by my spirit. And that's a part of the process to man is is being humble and letting God kind of do his work. And I can tell a story but I'll let you come back on the little make is I want to say more to that obviously but you can come in on that real quick as I saw you I saw your little mind working there just running around like a little. The little boxer man that you are there but I can see your mind at work. Yeah, no I think it's going to be important for us to talk about that religious element to and in part two I'd like to talk about some of these father architects that we've had, not just from Christianity of course we've got the father, got of the Old Testament and also Jesus which I separate the two and I think that's an interesting conversation so maybe I'll push back on you a little bit with that one because I've got my own ideas so interesting. No, don't do it. You know, I think the father of the Old Testament is very different to Jesus Christ in my opinion there is a definite contrast between the two like it's extreme I mean the father of the Old Testament was vengeful he was jealous he had all kinds of different attributes that Christ never had the father of the Old Testament demanded that he was worshiped and you had to abide by his rules and then Christ came along and people today, people today actually say that Christ and Yahweh of the Old Testament are one and the same and Jesus is the son of Yahweh but many early Christians thought Yahweh of the Old Testament was some demonic satanic type God they even compared him to Saturn and said that Christ was a separate God like the cathars for example they saw Christ is the one true God and Yahweh is the demi-edge which was akin to Satan like he was the master of the material world and I've got my own thoughts on it but let's not go there just just for now. Well, yeah there's a reason why narcissism was condemned in the early in the early century but I'll push back on you after their pal don't worry. Let's lay out the list is I want to give out some statistics, one in four children will grow up in a single parent household and almost always that will be a fabulous household. 85% of young people in prison come from fabulous homes, 71% of high school dropouts come from fabulous homes, 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fabulous homes, nearly 25 million children in America live without a biological father and 60% of youth suicides are from a fatherless home. Now we've both worked with young people in a mentorship role so I'm guessing you've seen that in your work PJ I certainly saw all of that I can say they're almost certainly true. You know in my work from what I've looked at in my life and all the kids that I've worked with that's pretty much right but I would also say as well it's important not to forget that gals are just as vulnerable from a fatherless household and this often young gals leaves them much more open to exploitation grooming child sexual abuse because that protector role is lost again. And then other men who embody the tyrannical and evil father. Yeah, they'll take advantage or even West today you know it could be traffic in human trafficking because there's no protected there so they see them as weak and that opens the door to this kind of more demonic father, which will talk about in part two as I want to talk about both you know the godly father and then also this is a 10 in father because I think a lot of what's happening in the world today PJ is the drawing in of this demonic satanic satanian type energy and I think they worship that. And what we're talking about is getting back to this more godly father so before we move on from that PJ is anything you want to add because believe I'm not part one has already come to its close so he's going to finish. Come on. Oh man. Just this final part for for part one because I wanted to combat with you a little bit on the on the nose and especially the Jesus and the Jesus and fatherhood old and New Testament distinction I don't think that's obviously I don't agree with it but I want to kind of give you some reasons why where it may be some pushback on that but I don't know maybe just for the end of part one I just kind of say this is that already man and I'm telling you man like obviously your listeners I'm sure many of them are already fathers or mothers who have been married in and I'm kind of in the throes a lot of this stuff happening in real time but I already kind of recognize what I see for myself as a dad and I pray for this little guy man all the time already and I'm so excited Mike it's going to be great and a little Mike junior that we got in there. But my desire for him as a father already is not that he'll go on to make millions of dollars or play in the NHL or it's not so much my desire but it's what God desires. I'm ready that like the little guy will come to have a relationship with God and that he'll be loving to others and kind and heal and body the air going. I want to be a little airborne you know not to not an entertainer not adjusting true to that would not be good. And just for the listener like I want to develop these ideas a little bit more in part two but being loving like Jesus said the entirety of the law is this to love God and to love others as you love yourself. And our society more than anything is lacking in love. And I think that's kind of the true heart of manhood right there man and true the truth of good fatherhood is somebody who denies himself out of love for others. And man I'm telling you Mike I'm right in the midst of it as a man who's newly married with a pregnant wife and who's made many mistakes man too many to count but I'm learning that on the day to day just learning to you. Deny myself out of love for others that's that's the truth of it right there. That's the heart of it. So we'll get into part two we'll talk about narcissism and all the things that you want to talk about and we'll. But yeah man that's that's a good one for us to start there. Yeah I think that's a good attitude to go into a marriage with PJ for sure. I think again you can have a marriage today and it just be a meaningless endeavor and it's a lot of people paint their marriage with. Hyper materialism again it's a party it's about fun it's about enjoyment and then all of a sudden six months in a year in four years and they realize wow this is tough and there's all of these responsibilities. Then of course the man has the ability to exit that situation where is it much harder for a woman to do because she's the primary caregiver to children. And again it's this absconding from responsibility so when you go into these truly life-defining relationships and I'm Jen is an adventures like you're a now with a child it has to be with that responsibility like yeah I've got duties here and I'm going to you know I'm going to do them not just for myself but for my family but also for God you know I'm going to make sure that I am the one who succeeds where many has failed even if your own father failed even if you're not. You're in a society where everyone else is failing and that's a really exciting thing to try and achieve that. Maybe I can do this I guess cycling back round to your example of Aragon. You know he was born in a time when everyone had failed men had failed everyone around him was failing and that's what made him shine even brighter was that he managed to not be the man that everyone else wanted to be he was the one that no one else could be he was able to discipline himself and he had all of the temptations to add all of the same excuses not to take on that battle he could have stepped aside because he was doing just fine he just survived he understood how to get by his strider. So I think that's a key lesson as well is like nobody's going to force us in this day and age and we're going to give every. We're going to be given every temptation to step aside and give up and give in and therefore it really is down to us there's no cultural consequences for giving up as a father or as a husband. And I don't know if you want to say this part for part two but like, but that's why Aragon was so special and why he actually completely relates to Christ, because Aragon was the rifle king he had the birth threat he had the lineage. He was king by right. And there were many instances in the story where he could have became the king of Gondor. And the difference between him and Boromir actually so Aragon had already been through the wilderness he had already been the wild marshes looking for golem he had fought many battles as a disguise figure. I think his name was Elpham like he fought in the battles of Rohan and in Gondor for years and years and nobody knew who he was. And then when he became revealed in the council of Elrana as to who he was his lineage going all the way back. There the headstrong Boromir who's a little bit of the Andrew Tate kind of character, although he also got redeemed in the end by his love and self sacrifice for the halflings in that when he was killed but Boromir says you are the king of Gondor you need to take the throne by right. So that through your power and might you can lead the city of Gondor back to take back our kingdom into fight against evil and Aragon says no. Actually you see the exact same story playing out with Jesus because Christ, his lineage going back to the time of Abraham he was king of Israel by right. And everybody thought in that time of Israel that the king and the Messiah he would restore and come back as king of Israel and he would fight and restore the kingdoms to fight against the Romans and all their enemies. And he would establish the kingdom of Israel. But when you see with Jesus it's the same thing what happens. He doesn't fill the architical role in the sense that he was born in a palace and he was born with power and might born in a stable. Born born in born in Bethlehem of born as a and as grew up in Nazarene and like the common joke in Israel that time was like Nazareth like anything good come from Nazareth that little shaky hilltop out in the middle of nowhere and he's born in humility and humbleness. And when Jesus shows up on the on the scene was he do he starts doing miracles what kind of miracles is he like destroying the Romans with lasers from his eyes is he doing all this like power. He he makes wine at the wedding of cana. He he's touching the mouths and the eyes and the ears of the blind and the sick and the poor. He he sits down he has dinner with sinners prostitutes tax collectors and anytime he did anything anytime he did a miracle the first thing that he does people don't really know about Jesus what's the first thing that Jesus says after he does a miracle for anybody. Does he take upon us does he take honor to himself does he glamorize himself look what I did no he says don't tell anybody what I did. Why for two reasons. He didn't want any credit or glory for himself because he was just so joyful and loving and kind that he was so grateful just to like help other people that he didn't want any intention for himself. But secondly he knew the hearts of men that he knew that they want to make him king of Israel by force and by making him king of Israel by force. He would start fulfilling the desires of all the people which is that they would make him king so that he could defeat all their enemies but Jesus came not to defeat the Romans or defeat their enemies, but to love the enemies and to save them and to save all mankind and save the Gentiles. So that's where Oregon and represents Christ again as the proper and true archetype because the true archetype is the king who earns his spot through pure humility and love and service for others. And Aragorn had actually obtained that by overcoming all his trials up to the point where he came as obviously as king at the end and he sort of earned it and lived up to it through his humility. And like this is why the Lord of the Rings man is like, it's hitting deep man it's capturing something, obviously why Christ is different he hits deep, our notion of archetypes of manhood fatherhood all this stuff man and we're very flawed I think from the proper thing We'll get into this a bit more in part two because I think you see the same message in the Old Testament like in the New Testament as well. And we'll get into it we'll get into it you're right if part one's done we'll get into a bit more in part two years. Okay, buddy well I appreciate coming back on the show PJ and I wish you all the best with the Beth and I hope that first few months goes as easily as possible it's going to be a difficult one you're going to be up all night but that's part of the, yeah that's part of the duties that you've now got so congratulations again buddy thank you so much for joining us and I look forward to pat to look forward to getting those box and gloves on and having a little spa with you. Okay everyone that's it for pattern number one of my episode with PJ buys if you're enjoying the vibe of this one if you like where it's going please head over to the website to become a member I'll simply sign in if you're already a member and a big thank you to everyone who has joined because it's a great community and your support helps me to continue this work so a big thank you to you all in closing hope you're all well healthy and reasonably happy take care of yourselves enjoy the summer and I'll see you all back here for the next episode. You are basic deep deep down far far in is simply the fabric and structure of existence itself. For all men and women. Not merely peace in our time. It's an all time. Honesty can express themselves. Peace for all men and women. Not merely peace in our time. Peace in all time. The fabric and structure of existence. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. Peace in all time. (chimes)
