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Follow and listen to baseball as I'm boring, presented by Wasabi Hot Cloud Storage on the free Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, fantasy football owners. The road to winning your fantasy football championship starts now. I'm Matt Harmon from Reception Perception. Join me and James Ko as we take a deep dive into the position that's going to make or break your fantasy roster. Wide receivers. We analyze route running, target share, and all the metrics that matter, giving you the insights you need to draft the best wide receivers. As you prep for your draft, let us give you the coverage you need. Follow and listen to Reception Perception on the free Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Six rings in football things. Andy Hart here back at Gillette Stadium for another Patriots training camp recap podcast. Alongside Tom Carroll, John Lyons from wei wei.com. Joint practice action today with the Philadelphia Eagles. Biggest crowd of the summer. The last practice open to fans of the summer. And John Mayo in his pre-practice press conference said they were treating it like a game. Well, if that's true, then the Patriots lost. I don't have a score board, but I can say quite confidently the Patriots lost. I am going to be optimistic though and a little bit positive here. I came in with very low expectations. It was not as bad as I expected. The Eagles are more talented football team. Mayo said that pre-practice. There are higher expectations for that team than there are for his team. Outside the building as he likes to put it. AJ Brown in my opinion was the best player on the field. The least absolute domination still can't understand why the Titans would let him go, why other teams didn't want him in the draft a little higher. The Eagles are a really talented football team. You look at that Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis interior line. Gave the Patriots offensive line some problems. But again, we're starting positive guys. I thought the Patriots front seven did a pretty decent job against what Devon Godshaw, I don't know if this is true or not, said might be the best offensive line in football. So quick takeaways from each of you, optimistic, pessimistic, wherever you want to go. So would you, Tom? So I'm with you where I thought the offense at times looked better than I thought it was going to look, especially early in practice during the one on ones, the seven on sevens, early in the eleven on elevens. But then from kind of that early red zone period on, it was a mess. I mean, the offensive line was having a real problem with the Eagles defense. I think it was something like five of the last six dropbacks of practice should have ended in a sack if they were actually doing sacks. Oh, yeah. So I mean, like you said, Eagles came in with much higher expectations than this Patriots team. So we expected them to look better. I thought we would want to see a little bit more out of the offensive line today as we're kind of closing the chapter on public training camp, you know, 14 practices in. But man, that was, that was disheartening for me. So John, it was, I'm guessing a top five NFL team against a bottom five NFL team. That's the simple reality roster wise expectation. And I think that's the way I looked at it today is today to me was a learning experience for the Patriots. That's what Drake may said. Yeah. I think it was a learning experience because you have an offensive line that we do have some questions about to begin with and they have to go against Jordan Davis and Chable and Garter and Bryce Huff coming off the edge because I don't Davis is a mountain. Oh, he's huge. I can't believe the Jets left Bryce Huff go too. It's just crazy. But that's a great defense over there. Good secondary elite defensive line. And then you mentioned AJ Brown, like offensively, that's a really good team. And this team was in the Super Bowl two years ago and lost by three points. I mean, they're that good for a reason. And I agree with Tom, I think the offensive line, it got seem to get progressively worse as the day went on. But also, I think the other side of that is the Eagles defensive line settled in. And I thought got better and better and better as the day went on. Because if you look at the Patriots schedule, they're going to play the 49ers. They're going to play the Jets outside of that. They're not going to see a defensive front like this the rest of the season. I mean, that's just how good the Eagles are. So the Eagles are a lot better than the Patriots. They played better. I thought the Patriots had some good moments that two-minute drill, the Jacobi Brissette ran near the end of practice. I thought there were some good moments in there. But also, there should have been a sack. There should have been an interception if this was a game. So just still some things to work on. But again, I take away from this as it used to be, teams would come here and try to learn from the Patriots back in the old days. Now it's their first. I thought this was a good learning experience for the Patriots, especially in the offensive. Absolutely. And, you know, Romandre Stevenson talks after practice. And this is where I do agree with him a little bit in that it was just good to run their zone plays, their boots. Because I keep saying the boot is never open against the Patriots defense. But I think some of that is they've seen it 27 days in a row and they know it's coming. So I think that's a good learning curve. But you said something there. They're probably not going to face too many defensive lines, like the Eagles 100%. They are going to face wide receiver combos, like the Eagles. Maybe not quite the same. But there's a lot of teams on their schedules that field two elite level receivers. When you start talking about, well, maybe the 49ers. Look at week one. The Bengals, the Dolphins. Like they all have pairs of receivers. And I want to start there because, so Christian Gonzalez, he is who he is. And we're going to see how good he is. We're going to find out. There were some ups and downs. One on ones. And I don't know if this was completely scripted by the coaches, but there was a lot of him on AJ Brown. And I don't know if AJ Brown wanted him. The coaches wanted that matchup. Whatever. That is a great opportunity for Christian Gonzalez, who's supposed to be physical. And AJ Brown beat him a couple of times in some of those. And that's fine. I'm not saying he shouldn't be. We just praised AJ Brown as one of the best receivers on the planet. But the concern for me is the Mike Pellegrino comment about like how deep this secondary the corners are and they're going to make decisions tough. Well, when Jonathan Jones isn't practicing and Marcus Jones isn't practicing, they sure poo are not deep. And then I look out there and it's like they seem to have settled in on Christian Gonzalez as a right cornerback. If you're just going to line him up on the right side, teams are going to feast on your defensive left side. Whether that's Alec Austin or Azizi Hearn or Marco Wilson. So I just that backside cornerback spot opposite Christian Gonzalez. Even if it ends up being a Marcus Jones, because I think they kind of want to use Jonathan Jones's safety. That's a separate topic. I think that could be a in Achilles heel for this defense or a fatal flaw. Given what we just said, if the front's good, that's great. But if the guys just throw in quickly to the to his right, it's a problem. Yeah, and I think building off that Andy, the Patriots defense we've seen over the years, they love to use five defensive backs all the time. I think and they started this a couple of years ago and I think we're going to see Gerard Mayo continue it. I think we're going to see a lot of three safeties and they're just going to have those two corn. And I think it's going to hopefully be Jonathan Jones if he's healthy. Gonzalez and Jones, and then you're going to see maybe more Marte Mapu and Duggar and Peppers or some sort of safety mix in there with three safeties as opposed to three corners. Because I think as a whole, their defensive backfield is really deep, but it's much deeper. It's safety. I think then it is at corner. I think the Eagles, you mentioned like it's not just AJ Brown. It's Devonta Smith. They have Dallas Goddard. They're playing tight. And that's a really good same on Barclays. It's a lot of the backfield. Yeah, like that's an elite. John Ross was a first round pick and a speedster. I mean, he's not very good, but an offensive line that is about a mountain of a man like they all are. I mean, it's crazy. Their biggest issue seems to be reportedly the relationship between the head coach and the quarterback. That seems to be their fatal flaw on their offense. So it'll be interesting to see where the defensive backfield goes. The first and foremost thing would be nice to see Marcus Jones, Jonathan Jones and Marte Mapu on the field. Because they're a hell of a lot deeper with those guys on the field than when they're not. And I just find it problematic. If we're already talking about why aren't those guys aren't there in August, you generally don't get healthier. You generally don't get deeper as the season goes on. So that's one thing. Talking about depth and talent and different things. So we saw Matthew Judon in what I'll call Judon attire, which doesn't include game pants. And he looked good? Oh, sure. Well, he loves to put on a show. When Sequin Barkley is running down the sideline, he's going to give you the false hustle. I'll chase him down and punch it out. Hey, cheer for me. Great. Yeah, you just gave up an 80 yard touchdown. Sequin Barkley. I don't know what the hell you're doing. Sequin looked awesome by the way. And Sequin in this offense, you just mentioned it, John. We've got her with AJ Brett, like. If they throw the football, Sequin's like the fourth option at best. Yes. Whereas the Giants, he was their whole offense. And you get matchups. There was a deep ball to Sequin down the right sideline that I'm like, who's in cover? And I'm like, Judon? Yeah, and you're burned. That's a win for the offensive coordinator in that matchup that he just schemed up. But when you look at all the talent they have, that may happen where you get less than ideal matchups with Sequin. And if he can stay healthy, he may be able to absolutely feast in this offense. But from a Patriots perspective, Christian Barmore was on the field. And I say that in street clothes, walked out late, talked to some teammates, talking to Devon Godshaw post practice. He said it's the first time they've seen him. They were happy to see that he's in great spirits. You know, they'd actually like him maybe come around a little bit more and hang out with the guys regardless of where his health situation takes him. But that's a concern. And offensively, I want to talk about the receiver position. I don't love the receiver position. I'm going to be honest. Tyquan Thornton, who I liked through the first eight days, whatever it was. And then I proclaimed he might be the best receiver on the field. Then he missed practice. Ever since he missed practice, he's also missed picking up where he left off. Like he has not been good since then. KJ Osborne, I don't really know what to make of him. It's like, he's going to be here though. Oh, he's going to be here. I just don't know if he's going to contribute. I actually thought Baker stepped up a little bit today, which I don't know if I find it impressive that he stepped up to the challenge of another team or alarming. Am I like, well, are you one of those game day guys, you know, in the NBA? Oh, we're on TNT this week. I'm going to have 40 tonight on TNT. So just thoughts on maybe what you saw from the wide receiver position today. I thought Baker and Polk both looked really good today. And, you know, I'm not as concerned as you are with a receiver being kind of like that game day type guy because they need guys, period, right? True. So if you're only going to show up one day, I'll take you on Sundays. Yeah. So if Baker's going to be a guy that's going to show up for big games, the Pats have a really tough schedule. Oh, they do. And all of their division games are big games against teams that are projected to be good teams. So, you know, I'm cool with that. I thought Polk looked really good during the one on ones and the seven on sevens. I think he carved up the Eagles secondary. I think him and May continue to look good together. I think, you know, May and Baker had a really nice connection down here during seven on sevens. It was like a 25 yard out, beautiful toe tap catch by Baker, perfect ball from Drake. So the more and more I see those guys play well together, I get excited about the future and I start to film my glass half full again instead of be half empty about what we're going to see this season. So I'm just trying to focus on the future when I see those two young guys with Drake. Yeah, I thought today, Polk was their best receiver for pretty much the entire practice. He separated really well. Tom, you mentioned the one on ones. Yeah, they're really nice route, but then diving catch in the back of the end zone for what would have been a touchdown. He had also, I think his very next rep. He had a really nice move over the middle to create some separation. I thought tomorrow Douglas didn't have that red jersey on. Look good. I mean, for long stretches of practice, of course, Kendrick Bourne was, you know, stretching with the team. He's still not where he's at yet, but it seems like to me, they have something in Polk because that was a pretty good secondary they were going against today. And he looked like he belonged right out there with him. You mentioned Baker and I thought Baker had some good moments too. So I think this is a receiver cooler where for better or worse, the two guys to be most excited about are tomorrow Douglas, the second year guy who was picked in the sixth round and then a rookie in Polk. So, you know, that's not always the best thing, but I think they at least have something there definitively they can grow with at least those two. 100% and you know, you say Baker, Polk and Douglas for their flaws and their strengths, whatever they're going to be, I'd much rather watch them than throw the ball to Austin Hooper, who's a veteran complimentary tight end. Like what are we doing here? He's played in the AVP offense. I think that's why he's here. Yeah, the quarterback and the tight end that played in the AVP offense, both were going working with each other a lot today. Like, I don't need to see that because Brissette, you're not here long term. You don't excite me, no offense. I mean, I'm just being honest and same thing with a guy like Hooper. Like give me the young guys. So that leads us to the story of camp, the story of the day, the story of every day, the story of last Thursday night because he didn't play all that much. He's going to play more this week according to Gerard Mayo. Got a lot of reps today, Drake May, a lot of reps. There was one point where it just went on and on and I kept waiting for somebody else to come in and it was him and he was just getting extended reps. The bottom two guys basically didn't get any surgery. And I'm fine with that. Yeah, I'm fine. We saw too much of that last week and that's fine now we move forward. But what are your thoughts, I guess, now that we kind of put open training camp to bed? We're 14 practices in. Drake May has had time to learn. He talked a lot today about this being a learning experience against another team, against another defense and opportunities. Just sort of where you're feeling because I'm down on him. I'm just going to be honest. I had two high hopes. I'm going to be honest. My timeline is extended, I guess. I no longer think week two is in play, which is a number that have been thrown to me by somebody inside the organization. I'm now doubting my little plan for week five when you ramp them up before that San Francisco game. We'll see. Where are you guys that with Drake May? Well, first of all, I really don't want his first game to be against San Francisco. Oh, I virtually guarantee you he'll play against San Francisco because they're going to get smoked. Oh, OK, so you're saying in relief at least? There will be garbage time in San Francisco. He may have garbage time before that, but he's getting garbage time at Levi Stadium. I can virtually guarantee it. OK, yeah. I was a little afraid of him getting that first start against San Fran because I've heard that thrown out there. No, that makes no sense. I've also been told probably going to make his first start at Gillette Stadium where they could use a fun thing to say, hey, this is the week he's making his first start in Foxborough. Come on down and watch the game, please. Yeah, so look, I thought today you saw some good early in camp. It was, like I said, I think it was period eight on after that early red zone period where you started to see sort of the ups and downs. And that's going to continue to happen when the offensive line isn't going to give him enough time to sit back there and process. He needs that extra time. So we're just time time period, right? So young quarterback doing what he can with the time that he has, I almost don't put it on Drake as much as I do the situation that he's in currently. I have really liked the peaks that I've seen from Drake May so far this camp. I don't know when he's going to play in a real game, start a real game, but I personally feel good about where he's at in his development as good as you can given the offensive line situation. I think I would echo my whole camp observation. I would echo Andy Hart, he's fine plus right now, fine plus right now where he's fine, doesn't do anything that kills them, makes the occasional plus play that's really good, but he doesn't look like a guy who's ready to be a starter yet. And frankly, I think what we saw today, guys, was the reason he only played one series against the Panthers because that second unit offensive line got smoked. And again, I know it's the Eagles. It's not the Panthers, but they have to be conservative with this kid because they just don't have the protection there to hold up. I mean, even their first unit O-line today, there was multiple times I saw City So just got pushed back or Vidarian low miss blocks. And look, City So I think is a decent O-ignment, but you're going against Billy, you're going against the big dogs, and they couldn't hold up. I think we saw like you mentioned, may got a bunch of reps today and you're correct, but none with the first team, right? Like which I thought we might see and Gerard may even kind of alluded to that last week. You might see him, you know, in Tuesday, you know, we didn't at all. And again, I think the O-line situation has a lot to do with that. And I also think the more he works with the second team, the more he works with Pulcan Baker. And I think that's helpful too, because as the years go by 2025-2026, I know Patriots fans don't want to hear this, but if that's what they're looking at, he's going to be playing with Pulcan Baker and you want to develop that chemistry as much as possible. So fine plus is my overall assessment. I like it. There's been days that have been fine. There's been days that have been fine minus. Overall, I'm giving them a fine plus for the totality 14 days of training camp practice. I will say, I do think there's a chance on Thursday night, you get to see May with the first O-line. Hopefully when the Eagles pull their starters on defense, so it can be May, the first unit offense, first the second unit of Philly. I think that might be a nice sweet spot for him to get some reps and kind of evaluate him in that situation, because I would like to honestly see him with more chances to throw to DiMario Douglas, because that's the guy that seems to have the greatest ability to get open quickly, get him the ball, see if they can develop. And they're going to need that. Absolutely. So that's it. Patriots training camp 2024 is technically in the books. There will still be practices obviously between now and the regular season. I actually think there will be some where the media will be in attendance. Fans will not be in attendance. So we may have a few more of these reactionary podcasts. But Thursday night, Gillette Stadium, Eagles Patriots, one of the best teams in football against the New England Patriots here in Foxboro. For John Lyons, for Tom Carroll, I'm Andy Hart. That's another Patriots roster. Excuse me, Patriots training camp recap for six rings and football things. Maybe at some point, Fitzy will even come back. Who knows?
