The Family Podcast By Movieguide®
What Would Jesus Boycott???
I cannot believe you said that Jeremy, and we're gonna have to edit that one out. Hey, I am Robbie Bear. This is the Family Guide podcast here with Jeremy Carroll, and we are talking about should you boycott? Should Christians boycott? Should conservatives boycott? Is it the right thing to do to be able to make a difference in culture? Listen in and let us know. So, if you've been living under a rock, here's what happened at the Olympics. So they did a big raw, raw, big opener at Paris for the Olympics. And the creator of the opener decided that they would do a mockery of Last Supper with a bunch of drag performers all lined up like at a table. They tried to say it was some other thing after they came out with an official apology after there was a huge outcry. So that's kind of the thing. What do Christians do in that scenario? That's such a crazy weird thing to do. Why would they even do that? It just basically offend two billion people in the mix of it to do the Last Supper, which is such a sacred, important moment. Especially when it's a global event. Global sports sporting event. Right. The Families Watch. You know what I mean? It's like what a weird moment to make an anti- Christian faith statement. It's like that's a really, really weird moment to do that. And I know that it didn't see Spire or whatever said that they were boycotting the Olympics because of that. Yeah. So there's a lot of groups that wanted to boycott the entire thing. The thing is that it is actually, even as you just explain it, it is incredibly offensive. Because it is something that we take as very meaningful in our faith. So it is like a really weird, really weird moment to do that. It's just like who thought of that as a show that's being watched by like 100 million people around the globe. I think it's so hard because we, as Christians or whatever, we have to walk in faith. And the Bible says we live in the world, but not out of the world. And I feel like it's one of those hard moments of how you live faith, how you honor your faith and live life. Do you know what I mean? Kind of juggling those things because it's like probably most corporations or things that you deal with like probably do not align 100% with your beliefs. Totally. Do you know what I mean? And it's like the line between like what is right to kind of boycott and what's not right to boycott is hard. I mean, I know a lot of like conservatives boycott a target for a while. I mean, they actually changed their stance targeted because of that boycott. But the question is like, how do you honorably defend how you defend, but like also like, I don't know. This is a huge debate. Do you know what I mean? Because like, the thing is like the Christian faith is so unique because of that sort of, you know, we have that phrase, the upside down kingdom. It's like, hey, you're meant to sacrifice for others, you know, like Jesus had the greatest in the kingdom is the one who's the greatest servant, you know? And so like it's a very weird thing because it's like even even think about statements like turn the other cheek, you know, like that's part of the upside down kingdom. Like in most things like you get punched in the face and the point is to like, punch them in the face. Do you know what I mean? But like the thought of like, turn the other cheek. Wow. Because we saw that with God himself, you know, I mean, the passion is like a good example of that. But like, you know, he could have destroyed everybody and everything. But like he took the beating on the cross. Now he did it for us so that we could go to heaven, you know what I mean? He sacrificed for us. But I think that the, I think it's like a hard question of like, I don't know that something has been debated for all of human history. Yeah, like the walk between like being a person of God, walking in a life, how to be strong, but humble. Do you know what I mean? And like that is like a very interesting thing. Because like one of my favorite lines from Narnia is, you know, with Aslan. Yeah. And I forgot that. Do you remember the particular line? He says, it was, is he, is he safe? Right? I think Peter, yeah, asking Mrs. Beaver or something like that. And Mr. Beaver, he's like, is Aslan safe? Because he's a lion. He's like, Oh, no, he's not safe, but he's good. Right. Is that the line you're thinking? Yes. Exactly. Where it's like a thing of like, like, there's that strength. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's an absolute deep resolve of strength. But yet, like, so I think that like, I mean, this is true of anything of like, how, how do you walk the line of like, both being someone who like lives faith, but, but also like, stands up because I think that like on both sides, I know this will probably be controversial on the internet because the internet is just a set pool of people who want to burn everyone to the ground. Yeah. But it's just like a location where everybody hates somebody else for something. No, man. Do you know what I mean? It's like everybody's got to be like a true believing, somehow like the least happens on this podcast. Yeah. Don't read the tweets. The least true believing, like, person in regular life is like a true believer, like, fanatic on the internet. Right. Totally. But the thing is that like, it is good to walk with faith. I mean, our job is to walk his faith. The question is like, what they did was wrong. Do we cut out the Olympics? The thing is that there's also a lot of faith in the Olympics. Like, the water is, is, is murky. Do you know what I mean? It's there's not clarity to it. You know, it's like, we look through the glass dimly. Like, there's not, there's not clarity. Like, there are tons of, of athletes that are praising God throughout the Olympics that are pointing to God. Yeah. There are, you know, there are organizations that are passing up Bibles in Paris, you know, that are doing an incredible job. There are, you know, I heard about like, they're on movie guide.org. I heard about like, worship services that athletes are doing. Yeah. You know what I mean? So like, it's, it's kind of complicated because that is a horrible thing that we don't want. So I think that like, I think on that line of like, it is good to bring up like, this was bad. This was harmful and bad and offensive. Do you know what I mean? But I don't know if it's necessarily like, throw the baby out with the bath water because the thing is that the Olympics in general was like a, is like a very positive thing a lot of times, especially to faith. Like, there's a lot of incredible faith stories from it. You know, I don't know. What do you think? It's a, it's a really actually hard line to be honest. Yeah. The, the thing that gave me some hope in the whole situation is that the actual Olympics committee had to come out with an official apology about it, which is pretty remarkable because I feel like they would just tromp on Christians. Right. Typically. Right. And I feel like, this is my personal feeling, is that there is a shift in culture now where a return to decency is kind of what people are desiring because we've seen everything go so out of whack now and for so long. It's kind of like, oh, we get it. You're trying to be controversial. That's not controversial. Right. You know what I mean? It, it, it almost, in a way, it does almost feel in a way. I wonder if it's like, my hope is it's a long term shift. Yeah. But like, yeah, it's interesting about people become jaded by it about that. Do you know what I mean? Because it's, it has gotten so weird about the fact of it will kind of go back and it's become so toxic, you know, to everybody. Everybody's so toxic to each other. Do you know what I mean? I wonder if it will go back. But the thing is that like, let's pull the thread on the like, boycott thing. Like the truth is like, like take the target boycott. Like that was actually pretty effective. Do you know what I mean? Like they changed policy because of that boycott. Yeah. The question is like, how does that, I don't know, because I'm sure there's tons of amazing God loving people at Target. There are tons of people who really don't like God either at Target. But like it's a mixed bag. They employ thousands and tens of thousands of people. Do you know what I mean? And so I think there's the interesting line that I think is confusing is how to both stand up, but to be like winsome in it. Do you know what I mean? Not to be like, because I think one one point that we've seen on the internet is people standing up that are not winsome is actually just like absolutely divisive. Do you know what I mean? And it's like more like a punch everybody in the face, you know, except for my crew or whatever. And it's like, that's not helpful. It actually pushes people farther away. You know, there was a famous situation that happened in the film business with, with when they made the movie Noah, which was not necessarily great. It wasn't great to be honest. But the thing is that like, like Christians did go nuts about it. Do you know what I mean? And they like, they just went so intense on the guy. And it probably wasn't worth like it wasn't like, it wasn't like spiritually offensive, you know, it just wasn't necessarily the greatest film, you know, like this is actually spiritually offensive, like it's actually in a direct offense to our faith. Do you know what I mean? There's a difference on that. And so, I don't know. Is it like a thing of degrees? Is it? I guess every all of this stuff is deeply nuanced. Right. But because I think one of the things that's like, because they're hiring these people to perform an act to open up the ceremony, to open up the games, it's not a reflection on like the athletes themselves. They had nothing to do with the creative decisions of the opening ceremony. And there's plenty of those great stories of those Christians, athletes, like especially for America, they've really been amazing this year. Yeah, incredible faith stories this year. And it's sad if a lot of people missed out on hearing those stories, but you can find all of them at movie guide done over there. But, you know, I think, I think you're right. I think it's more nuanced than just throw the whole thing out because it's like Hollywood, the same thing. Yeah, same thing. Like people, well, a lot of them do understand how Hollywood works. And so they think of it as this like monolithic thing. They don't realize that it's actually like a producer who's worked the average movie takes 13 years to make. And they're peddling their project around for a decade or whatever. It's like a small business. And they finally have someone to distribute it. And so like a great person of faith might have made one movie and it might go on Warner Brothers or whatever. And you might have had a person who's anti-faith go on that network too, but it doesn't necessarily mean, like, I think people don't understand how the system works. And so it's better to just really like choose project by project than it is to do like, you know, system by system. But I like platform by platform is that it's better to do project by project. And I think, but I do think that like one of the unique things that we have in our current age, which is different of ages of past is the fact that like we live in a capitalist system. And because of that, that means that we vote with our dollars, you know, and you have the right to be able to vote with your dollars and that can make an impact. Do you know what I mean? And so like you could make a choice of saying like maybe you make a choice of saying, Hey, we're not going to vote with our dollars here because it offends us. But, you know, like giving the option obviously to change, I don't know. But but I think the interesting thing, especially on the movie side is like, as I wish and I hope people listening this will hear of like, a lot of these things are project by project basis. And like, it's really important to vote for your for your dollars on the project, not to say like, Oh, we hate all Disney products or we hate all Warner Brothers because it's like, Hey, one producer who maybe loves God and shares your values and has worked for a decade to make a film. It's worth like supporting them. And basically, like whatever is supported, the studios are saying, Hey, let's make more of that. Right. Do you know what I mean? Like, they they understand it's it is a business. If you buy more of this, they'll make more of this, you know? And I think that one of the things that is interesting about the nature of stuff where there have been a couple interesting things like second vote was one of them or or is it called public square or town square or something? It was like an opportunity where you could like choose places that might align with like your ideological values. Do you know what I mean? Like where you could purchase goods that live or like, Hey, this is from somebody who shares your values. And I think that they're like, is something deeply sensical in that? You know, I just think that like every every period of time, like it deals with its own struggles. And it does feel like the current struggle we have is that nobody can get along. Do you know what I mean? Like the current struggle is is like nobody can talk to somebody that they disagree with, you know? Yeah. And maybe like if people talked more with each other, like we wouldn't have a weird like maybe those people actually like had friends who were Christian, they would have right. Yeah, they never would have made like, they may not understand how the last supper, you know what I mean? Like because they actually talked to Christian in person, you know? And I think that like, I think because of our deep isolation as a society into our subgroups, like people have missed out on the opportunity to like walk with walk through life with people who are not like them, you know, so that they can learn like, Hey, this is how it goes. Yeah. And the thing that I feel so joyous about being a being a Christian is the fact that it is such an incredibly joyous thing. Do you know what I mean? It's such good news. Like the good news is that God loves us and he made us and he wants to spend eternity with us. You know what I mean? And he forgave us and that this is only just the beginning. Like what an incredible thing like your life has meaning and purpose and for every day and every hour, you know, for all of eternity. There's a purpose and a meaning to it, you know? And so I think that like, I don't know, from a church perspective or like a faith perspective, get out of the church. If you're listening to this, you're in the church, like get out of the church, talk to people, you know, go to church on Sunday obviously, but like get out of it and like just talk to people who aren't like you, you know what I mean? And talk to about the incredible joy of the gospel, you know, amazing aspects of the gospel is it's one of those unifying things that just pull people out of their silos and into the gospel together, you know? Yeah, but it is so powerful. I mean, I've traveled the whole world and done it. I've done it in all sorts of different cultures and I've sang similar, you know, songs and it's just, there's something so powerful in it, in its unity. But I think that like, I don't know, I really split on the boycotting thing, like it should Christians boycott. Obviously, maybe it's like a choice by choice basis, do you know what I mean? There are times where like, I remember they were making a movie where they just totally like made it horrible about who Jesus was or who Mary was, like that is stuff that like you should not go to, you know what I mean? And it should not even, but I don't know because like this is directly offensive, like the last supper, like the way they did it, like that is as offensive as you come, like you can't make something much more offensive than that. But the question is like, I don't know how to walk that because like the Olympics does have a lot of great stories of faith, you know? And I think that like the message was told effectively, like they sent an apology, which is extremely unusual to be able to do. Do you know what I mean? So like the question is like, I guess in a way, like the outrage was effective, right? So it actually was effective at it then gold. Now the question is like, do you just come back and say, okay, well, we're coming back, but not, but like tentatively, like wisely, I don't know. What are your thoughts on like, on the boycotting thing in the mix? Well, I do think it's effective because we talk about within the movie industry, your money is a vote, your ticket is a vote for good if you want to support good projects and reject the bad. So it doesn't mean, oh, I support Hollywood. So I'm going to see every single movie. You only want to see the good movies. But the Olympics, though, being intertwined, it does make it a little more complex. It's really complex. Yeah, I think that like, I do think that Hollywood is a unique opportunity, which I know, like a lot on the conservative side or even the faith side, like, oh, that's never do Hollywood or really. But it's like really like, they don't understand that it's not, it's individuals that make the content. Every movie is its own company, you know what I mean? So like, go to the movies that like our TV shows that honor God, you know what I mean? And like, they'll make more of those. The more, the better it does, the more they'll do, you know. But I think that the, the, I don't know, I feel like the Olympics was moved by it, but I'd be interested that the people in the comments, what they, what they think on the thing and what they think about boycotting in the mix. And I, I in general think that like, it can be used, but I just feel deeply sparingly. You know what I mean? Because I think that like, if there is a way to like communicate and bridge the gap and talk to somebody and walk with somebody and explain and understand stuff to people, I think that there's a huge advantage in that first before like the nuclear, nuclear option, like, it doesn't mean that there aren't times where like, that is required. But I just think that like, maybe, maybe the nuclear option, yeah, should be used less. Do you know what I mean? Instead of so, so freaking out rage, just step back and be like, there's why this is not okay. Right. Are you willing to not do this? Right. And it seems like from what you said, like they did say they were sorry on the mix, but it was a, I mean, it is like as an offensive thing. And hopefully it's a topic, you know, stay away from, you know, going forward with other Olympics events. But it is interesting because like the target boycott did work. Do you know what I mean? So like, I mean, they are do work in isolation. And there's a guy, I read an interesting article in like, the Wall Street Journal of that, I think his name is Robbie Starbeck and how effective he is at like targeting specific organizations. So like there are, you know, it would be awesome. Maybe we should have him on the podcast. It's a point or something and talk through it with him. But it'd be fascinating on like, how to walk, walk that line of letting, letting companies know, like, Hey, there's a huge consumer base and they don't want this. Do you know what I mean? But along with also like getting outside of the church and like talking to people who are not, not like you, you know what I mean? Yeah. In the mix of it. But I don't know, I feel like we didn't end on any like solid thing. I feel like it's super ambiguous because we don't even know the answer. So if you know the answer, write it in the comments. I'm sure you'll let us know in some way about it. But I think that, I think the thing is that we live in interesting times, but the thing that I think is funny about that, you know, the Chinese proverb is, may you live in interesting times, but the thing is that like, I think for all of human history, people have lived in interesting times, you know what I mean? Like there is brokenness, there is hardness, there is like, I'll let me say that because people say something vulgar. There's brokenness, there's hardship, there's pain, there's suffering, there has always been, and there will always be until Christ returns. You know what I mean? Like I know people always want to say like, this is the most weird time. And it's like, well, that's not true. Like if you look at, yeah, exactly. Like look at when Jesus came, like in the fullness of time, like it was, it was pretty dark and pretty weird. Like read about like Sparta, like it was pretty weird. There's a lot of, a lot of hardship and craziness. That's why I think it's so important to read history. But just to understand that like God is always at work, and things are always crazy. And our job is to like walk in it, to walk with faith and to see how we can be in the world, but not of the world, you know, and how we can speak the gospel and how we can walk the line of love and truth, where you can go too far on love. And that just means acceptance and it's almost cruelty. It's like where they say that phrase like, too much kindness can be cruelty, you know what I mean? Where you're like accepting things or not doing anything that it's actually bad, you know what I mean? And there's a lot of elements of the church, look at the Episcopal church or whatever, where they've kind of done that, you know, and then you have on the other side where like you can be so much on truth that you're like burning the world to the ground. It's the Pharisaical thing. It's like where it's like, it's, it's where the Pharisee is. They are praying like, oh, I'm so much better than that guy, whatever, which is not, not true either, you know, and it's not that line in between of like, hey, we are broken sinners, you know what I mean? That we have the opportunity to love, but there is truth as well like that. And I think that that's, that's the call of the Christian that is really hard. It's a lifelong endeavor to like walk, walk in that faith and obviously read, but the Bible as much pray as much as you can for discernment, but kind of walk through that line and, and try to make a difference in, in this world, you know, as the best we can. And the Olympics is interesting. A lot of people are boycotting it. And maybe it's in that boycott. Maybe they'll change it for next time and bring people back or it'll be interesting. So please comment, let us know what you think. Thanks for tuning in to the Family Guide podcast with Robbie Barrett and Jeremy Carroll. We would love to hear your insights in the comments section and please like and subscribe. And we will see you in the next one. [BLANK_AUDIO]