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Join Zak and Lianne as they dive into the scandalous world of Frank Lloyd Wright, featuring multiple axe murders (actually), a tumultuous love life that the press couldn't get enough of, and the buildings that defined his career. We’ll also cover a recent photography competition's struggle with AI-generated photos!
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Sources
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn6yMKhzx6I
- https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/frank-lloyd-wright/taliesin-frank
- https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/the-taliesin-massacre-the-darkest-chapter-of-frank-lloyd-wrights-story-e7d95a03ec1e
- https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-la-crosse-tribune-miriam-wright/132564524/
- https://www.twincities.com/2016/10/27/famous-birthdays-oct-27-and-frank-lloyd-wright-jailed-in-minnesota/
- https://franklloydwright.org/site/fallingwater/
- https://www.guggenheim.org/about-us/architecture/frank-lloyd-wright-and-the-guggenheim
- https://crystalbridges.org/blog/little-know-facts-about-frank-lloyd-wright/
- https://science.howstuffworks.com/engineering/architecture/frank-lloyd-wright1.htm
- https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-la-crosse-tribune-miriam-wright/132564524/
- https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/photographer-wins-ai-image-contest-real-picture-gets-disqualified-1234709692/
- "Danse Macabre" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0
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Episode: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/notarthistorians/episodes/Wrights-Wrongs-Scandals-in-Architecture-e2mdihr
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Episode: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/notarthistorians/episodes/Wrights-Wrongs-Scandals-in-Architecture-e2mdihr
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Episode: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/notarthistorians/episodes/Wrights-Wrongs-Scandals-in-Architecture-e2mdihr
Podcast: https://mypod.online
Episode: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/notarthistorians/episodes/Wrights-Wrongs-Scandals-in-Architecture-e2mdihr
Podcast: https://mypod.online
Episode: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/notarthistorians/episodes/Wrights-Wrongs-Scandals-in-Architecture-e2mdihr
Podcast: https://mypod.online
Episode: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/notarthistorians/episodes/Wrights-Wrongs-Scandals-in-Architecture-e2mdihr
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Episode: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/notarthistorians/episodes/Wrights-Wrongs-Scandals-in-Architecture-e2mdihr
- Duration:
- 1h 11m
- Broadcast on:
- 06 Aug 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
- Okay, so you were just saying that you have three new roommates and it's a family of squirrels. Please tell us not about that, Zachary. - It's just two new roommates, but yes. The ones that were climbing up and down the screen by the window, we had a party. So we had a bunch of people over and we were joking it was our big footed party. And then, it was a great night. A lot of people came through. It was kind of hot and people wanted to smoke so we opened one of the windows. - What do you mean it was kind of hot? - It's been 7,000 degrees in New York City and 7,000 humidity. The fact that you had a party, that's the craziest thing. Nothing to find in a family of squirrels to your party. It's that it was one billion degrees and you were like, you know what, make it cooler? Let's have 500 people in our New York department. - A bunch of bodies together, no. But this was like a month ago. So it wasn't 90 degrees yet. It was like-- - It wasn't as bad, yes. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair fair fair. - So one of the windows is open. We didn't even have air conditioner in yet, 'cause we were not gonna put it in 'cause we were moving and then finally got hot, we were like, we'll put it in. So we have people over, some wants to smoke, we were like, open the window and Jordan for some reasons instructs him to open the screen also. (laughs) I don't know what time it's gonna go Saturday time. - This is already, this is like check-offs. This is check-offs gun of like, dot, dot, dot. You're gonna find out what happens. - Exactly. So we're like, to have the party, it goes still really late. We are in bed at like three or four or something. We'll get up to the next morning, it's 10 o'clock. And Jordan is like, what's that noise? What's that noise? And-- - Oh no. - I'm like, I don't know, it's the squirrels. Like, you know, you can hear them when the window's open, running up and down the screen is the squirrels. Like, I'm not worried about it. - That's stupid. - It keeps going, no? And Jordan's like, okay, what is that noise? 'Cause now it's not just a screen sound, it's like more sound. So I open our door. Our door was like cracked, for some reason. - Your bedroom door. - Our bedroom door, yeah. - Your bedroom door. - You walk out of the bedroom. The two windows, right when you walk out on the right, in the living room, are the screened windows that the squirrels like to climb on. So I look to the right and the screen and the window are open and there's a squirrel, like truly half like front legs on the window, so on the inside, front back legs on the outside window cell. Like truly like looking at me. Now, keep in mind, I am fully naked. I sleep naked. So I'm out, I'm standing in the doorway. I am, could reach out and touch this squirrel. Like it is truly with an arm through it. Maybe a little bit longer. I look to my left because I hear a sound and the other squirrel is at the other end of the apartment on the windows of one of the windows in our dining area. Yeah, like over on your right, right now. - But fully inside the apartment. - All four feet, the only way he could have got in or she, whatever, would be to come through that window by the bedroom, scamper across the living room floor into the dining room and then hop up on the windowsill on the radiator. So I'm like, obviously panicking, slam the door shy. - Yes. - Go to like, Jordan of course, terror takes him. He hides under the covers and he's like, no, no, no. - We're also like, this is like six hours of sleep at absolute most. We're exhausted, hungover. - Thank you. - So his only advice for me is to put on long sleeve clothing to like protect myself. - Oh, so he's not even going to help you. So Jordan is not even going to help you. Jordan is like, my only advice for you is best of luck as you defend our honor. - Like literally, so I put on a sweatpants and a sweatshirt and it's already, you know, it's like 75 degrees already. I'm like sweltering. I open the door, still by the window. I slam the door shut again. I open the door finally and I'm like, this is my time. And I look out and they're no longer in the apartment. So I think, no, they're not. - They just resolve themselves. - I think because I like made such noise and like slammed the door a bunch of times. - They get frightened. - Yeah. So then I went around with a broomstick throughout the entire apartment, like banging, banging on everything, like looking in the shower like under the tables and stuff. And then we disinfected the whole apartment every surface, just in case. - Good. Because I was about to say, Zach, you are about to be, you're about to usher in another pandemic to New York City. Like New York can't do another one, Zach. So it is your duty to Brooklyn, to disinfect after you invited a family of squirrels. - I would not survive another family. - To your yay, the neighbors moving out party. - It was insane. I just remember being like, I, like telling this story and looking back, I'm like, I could have been fully dreaming. Like I could have been drunk still or like, you know, like it was like, it all happened within a couple hours of sleep, you know, early hours. - Yeah. - It was like bright and sunny in here. So I was like, what? I don't know. It was just very surreal feeling, but we survived. And now the craziest part is that the squirrels have kind of disappeared. And I think they're a couple and they've had children somewhere. - They're scared. - I know, I think that they just had kids. I think they like had babies. 'Cause that's like, they were like, obviously made up. - Oh, congratulations. - Yeah, I know. So I'm like, I'm a God parent of these two. (laughing) I just freaking scared. But I have seen them since outside. So I'm like, all right, they're not in the apartment. - Okay, good. - But they're not running in the street in the corner. - Yeah, they're not secretly living amongst you. - No, God. We didn't have-- - Yeah, maybe they got really scared. - Oh, just come right out. And then obviously seeing you there fully naked, they became frightened. - That's why. - You know, because squirrels have a very marked preference for people wearing clothing. Everyone knows that. So the fact that you came out fully naked, terrified them. And then you were just, but I'm so glad that they result that-- - Oh my God. - Because God-- - All right, should we do this? - I'm bringing us to it. Should we get into it? - Let's do it. - Let's do it. All right. - Hello, everybody. I'm Leanne Ramos. - And I'm Zach Martellucci, and we are-- - Not our historians. - Thanks for joining us as we dive into the scandals and mysteries surrounding the personal lives of some famous artists. - We are two deeply unserious friends from high school who may or may not even make some time to talk about the actual art itself. And Zacharys, I know you know who we are talking about today. We are going to-- - I don't think I don't know. - No, we're talking about today. - No, I think you told me, but I have-- - Do you not? - You know. Okay, who we're talking about today is-- - Oh, oh, I'm excited. I remember. - Our very first architect, Dunte. - Yeah. - I wanted to do like the Pitbull horns. How did you do like the Pitbull horns? - No. - Like a bear horn. - Okay, good, good, good. So we are talking about iconic American architect, Frank Lloyd Wright. But before we go into where is he born? What's the situation? Where are his parents from? All of that. We are going to play Two Truths, One Lie. And you have to smell out Zacharys. Which of these statements about Frank Lloyd Wright is imagined? You ready? - Yes, hit me. - Okay, we're going to start very tame, very tame. So first potential truth slash lie. - Okay. - Frank Lloyd Wright had a sister named Magennel and a son named Llewellyn. Mm. - Okay, okay. - Perhaps, perhaps. Okay, number two, he once designed a church that the worshipers were pretty disappointed, not very into it. And they actually described it as, quote unquote, a prison gate house, a nice cream factory, a Mayan handball court. - Oh my God. - Potential fact number two, we're upping the ante. We're moving on from Magennel and Llewellyn, if that is the truth. And onto very disappointing church. Third statement. His father was a Baptist minister, Baptist minister, and his mother managed a very successful illegal gambling parlor. - Ooh. - Ooh, drama. - Is there? - All right, okay. - What were the kids named, what was his sister's name again? - I like how this is what you're stuck on. You're like, these names are insane. What were those names again? So Llewellyn was the, Llewellyn. So Llewellyn, was that the name of his son, and then was his sister's name, Magennel? - Magennel, okay. Okay, so let me talk you through it. My Magennel and Llewellyn sound like characters from Lord of the Rings, which was popular. - Or a mystery novel. - Or a mystery novel, yeah. Very popular at the time, I imagine, I think. So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna put that on the back burner for a second. The second one. - Okay, okay. - The church, those are such specific descriptions. My and Handball Court and an ice cream parlor, that's crazy. - Ice cream. - Those are various-- - Ice cream factory. - Ice cream. - Presentation house. My and Handball Court. - Oh yeah. Okay, and the third one, okay, I will say spoilers, I have been to the Frank Lloyd Wright house in Chicago, like the house that he grew up, or no, not he grew up in, but he raised his family and-- - Spoiler alert, yeah. - And he had the studio attached to it. - The one that he built for his family. - Yes, exactly. So I remember some things, maybe. Llewellyn sounds familiar, and it doesn't surprise me that somebody did not like his church. So I'm gonna go ahead and say the fact that his mother ran an illegal gambling operation is incorrect, is the lie. So number three, that's both. - Yes. - You are correct. - Good job, Zach. So, again, you know I always love my little trickery. So his father actually was a Baptist minister, and we'll get into his Frank Lloyd Wright's relationship with his father and other fatherly figures throughout his career. So this is true, is a Baptist minister, among other things. But no, his mother did not manage an illegal gambling parlor. - That would be so cool though. - It was worth a try, right? It was worth a try. So I was like, what if I sneak this in? So I thought I would sneak it in there, 'cause I was like, ooh, 'cause he is a minister, but then I'll just do half of a lie as well. - Nice trickery. - Good trickery. Okay, before we get into Frank Lloyd Wright, everything about him, I do want to have a little bit of a trigger warning up top that there will be pretty, there will be like, pre-descriptive incidents of violence involving an axe. So, I was like-- - That was not what I thought you were gonna say. Wow. - There's other things too, right? Like we never get into, ooh, trigger warning. There's gonna be adultery, because otherwise, every episode would need to start being trigger warning. There's going to be adultery. This is a podcast about artists. They're constantly adultering each other. I wanted to do that, right? Because not everybody likes violence out. Yeah, if you don't like that. - Yeah, thank you. - Feel free to skip this one. Okay. - Great work. - So, Frank Lloyd Wright, what would you say, Zach, are his most iconic buildings, his most iconic structures? - Okay, I think like hands down, probably most famous is falling water in Pennsylvania, the like cantilever, all that nonsense. I know that he's also like from the like prairie school, so there's some houses that are pretty famous, other houses. The one that comes to mind for me, I think we talked about this last time we were chatting. He has like, there's a room of his that they moved to the Metropolitan Museum of Art here in New York. So like, that's the one that's famous to me in my head. And I'm sure he did a lot of other things. Oh, the other most famous thing he ever did is the Guggenheim Museum, right? - Yes. - The spy pole. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say so, yes, you are correct. Look at you, you're an A-plus student today. You know about prairie school, you know about cantilever, so all of these will be very important. - That's all I got though. - I would say, yeah, as an architect, some of his most famous structures, the Guggenheim in New York, and then falling water in Pennsylvania. And we'll get into both. So Frank Lloyd Wright, he had a very long career. It spanned 70 years, and he was actually pretty productive right until his death at the age of 91. - Sounds like Michelangelo. - Yeah, I agree, like very long life and the entire time. And what's really interesting too, is like, continued to change up and evolve his style, which I think is really interesting, and also gives you longevity. Because if you're working for 70 years, and you're like, I am prairie school, and that's it. You know, this is what you get. If you get me, I'm a prairie boy. Everybody knows that, but like constantly evolving, and giving us new elements to be excited about. So he made mostly single family homes, but there are also schools, hotels, office buildings, stores, theaters, and a museum, the Guggenheim that we mentioned. So pretty prolific. And generally, as his personality, when you hear from individuals who knew him intimately, he had a huge ego. He was both morally and fiscally irresponsible. The buildings that he planned and constructed were constantly going over budget, and generally out of control. So when someone commissioned him for a house, you know, single family home, or whatever else. Frank Lloyd Wright was constantly hitting those individuals up, and letting them know, we do need a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, more money. - A lot more than a lot of time. - And not that sorry about it, you know? Yeah, he was like, you wanted to work with me. - Yeah, exactly, yeah. - Yeah, and extremely particular as well. So there are even reported incidents of when Frank Lloyd Wright would return to homes that he designed a year later, and he would even rearrange the furniture. If it was not to his liking. And he believed that it clashed with his vision for the structure. - Oh my God, that's crazy. I mean, like-- - He's a handful. - Yeah, sounds like a handful. I imagine like building a house and then being like, every year having him come by and be like, actually, I don't like that couch in here. - Imagine you're in the privacy of your own home being naked, trying to fend off squirrels. And then Frank Lloyd Wright is like, you know what? This is not Feng Shui. Zach, why is this chair facing south? What? So Frank Lloyd Wright was born June 8, 1867 in rural Wisconsin and lived a pretty farm-bucolic life. He spent the summers of his youth working at his uncle's farm, his mother. Unlike, I tried to trick you. She did not run an established illegal gambling parlor. She was from a large well-known family of Welsh Unitarians. So not into illegal gambling. - The opposite. - And the opposite, in fact, very much so, a religious woman. The father was an orator/musicteacher/politician/baptist/minister. I had a lot of... - Okay. - A lot. - Yeah. - Going on. And Frank's dad, by all reports, was pretty charismatic, but he had a really hard time holding down stable employment. So when he lost his job, the family would have to up and move to a different location. So before Wright turned 11, he already lived in six towns and four states because his dad's inability to hold the job impacted everybody. - Yeah, geez, that's rough. - I know. And along these lines, probably not super surprising to us, his parents did separate when he was 14, divorced when Wright was 18, and Frank Lloyd Wright would actually never see his father again after the divorce. - Whoa, whoa. - So I'm guessing they just didn't have a great relationship, or was it more that his father was just like super absentee in his life? - I think it was a little bit of both. I do think in a divorce sometimes, children can be asked to kind of choose sides, which isn't necessarily fair, but it does happen. And throughout his life, it does seem like Wright had a very strong connection with his mother. So he may have just had a strong relationship with his mom and said, you know what? I've seen my dad mistreat my mom. Like I choose my mom. - Yeah, that makes sense. - God, rough. - Right, he dropped out of, yeah, a little bit rough. So he dropped out of high school. He enrolled at University of Wisconsin-Madison. He took a few engineering classes over a few semesters, but then decided to leave after a few terms. And in 1887, 20 year old dual high school college dropout moves to Chicago to become an architect. - That is insane. Like if you wanna be an architect today, not only do you have to go to high school, you have to ace high school, and then you have to go to an incredible college and do an incredible program. That's incredibly hard to get into. Wow, how did his buildings not fall down? - This was different times. I don't know, Zach, maybe in those very limited engineering classes he took in his few semesters at University of Wisconsin-Madison, he was just very studious, you know? He was like very... - He's like, I got the basics. - Can make it work. - I can make a... - I'm good, more or less. Yeah, I got it, I got it. - And that's why he's like a genius, an visionary, I guess. - Yeah, that's why it is crazy that he made it with zero credentials, and I agree with you. It's fascinating too that something bad didn't happen, but I do think this has to do with the fact that he didn't, he doesn't move to Chicago and immediately strike out on his own. So he is working with an architect as a kind of, right, like assistant, supporting this architect, and after working with this individual, he decides naturally that he's going to apply to work at the most prestigious architectural firm in all of Chicago. - Wow. - Naturally. - Yeah, of course, I wish I had that confidence. - Adler and Sullivan was this architectural firm. He gets in, Zach, he gets a position with this firm and he works there for five years. - My God, incredible. - Not only works there for five years, he actually ends up forming, right ends up forming a very close relationship with the lead arc, you know, one of the founders of this firm, Lewis Sullivan, and yeah, who's another like very influential architect, but they were so close to the point that when Wright is getting, after Wright got married and was looking to, right, like buy a plot of land in suburban Oak Park, Chicago, wealthy and conservative, he actually gets a loan from Lewis Sullivan. So like clearly, like your boss believes in you if he's lending you this money. - Yeah, wow. I mean, it's not even like he was just a secretary or in the mailroom or getting coffee. He clearly became a staple of that office. I mean, enough that he had a loan from his boss, that's wild, wow. - Yeah, yeah. So in 1889, Wright is 22 years old at this point. He marries Catherine Kitty Tobin, who is the daughter of a wealthy businessman and I will let you guess, Zach, how many children do you think that Tobin and Wright had together? - Seven. - Ooh, so good. That was really good. - Was that right? - Six children. - Oh, wow. - No, so close. - I thought I over shot him. Very good. - Nice, six kids. I feel like that damage, anything over five, you're gonna be close. - You know, it's a funny thing. So like obviously in the news, remember when Nick Cannon was having all of those concurrent children by all of these different individuals. So I feel like that got so much media attention that like Nick Cannon has 12 children. But do you know it? No one, who no one ever thinks has 11 children as well, but who does? Elon Musk has 11 children. Look, why aren't we ever talking about Elon Musk's 11 children? - Why, he's 11 kids? - Yeah. And I feel like if we're going to demonize Nick Cannon, be like, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, Nick Cannon and his 12 children. We need to be equal opportunity demonization. We need to always mention Elon Musk in the same breath as Nick Cannon. - I agree. Wow. All right, well, and at least Frank didn't have 11. He only had six. - Did not have 11 children. Did not have, well, he has six children, two-star, and there will be other children in that. - Ooh. - There'll be another child that comes down later down the road. All right, so we already talked about, right was not good with money. A direct quote from Wright is, "Give me the luxuries of life "and I will gladly do without the necessities." - Speaking my language, I love that. Just give me, I need the basics, but. - So he was bad, he was bad with money. So even though Wright is making pretty good money at this prestigious architectural firm, he's constantly short on funds. He never has enough money for his six children that he's had with Kitty. And his contract with Adler and Sullivan specifically prohibits him from designing any structures, you know, buildings, houses, whatever, outside of his official capacity with the firm, right? So they're saying like you can't do moonlighting, you can't accept these weird side assignments, but right, he's constantly short on money. So what he ends up doing is surreptitiously designing nine houses called his bootleg houses. Even though this is in direct, right? This is like directly violating his contract with this prestigious architectural firm. - This man has a lot, he's just very self-confident. - Yeah, I'm a little bit impressed, a little stressed. - I think Wright would be someone, he would be stressful to have in our lives, but since we are so removed from him, I can just be like, you know what, good for you, I guess that it all worked out, great. - Yeah, as long as you can get caught, like you're good. - As long as you don't get caught. I've been, how are you gonna design nine houses in this wealthy suburb and no one is going to find out? So his boss, Louis Sullivan, did find out about right side deals and felt pre-betrayed and ended up firing, right. - Oh boy, scandal, scandal in the architect community. - Sullivan and Wright, they were extremely close in the sense that Louis Sullivan ended up being a kind of father figure for Wright, but after this betrayal, they ended up becoming estranged for 17 years. - Wow. - They, yeah, which is right, yeah. - I mean, it's appropriate, he burned a bridge, like he like, went behind his back, yeah, okay. - It's not great. - It's not great. - And then, when they finally reconcile, Louis Sullivan is actually in the depths of alcoholism. He was a very influential architect, but he actually ends up dying in near poverty and obscurity. And their last encounter, the last encounter between Wright and Sullivan is Wright goes to visit Sullivan at a flop house where he's living and they reminisce on their, you know, like their happier days working together and Wright actually ends up writing some of Sullivan's obituary. And he says, you know, there's a direct quote, "To know him well was to love him well." - Hmm, wow, okay. - That's sad. - At least they like kind of made up a little bit. - Yeah, I agree, not great. Like very sad circumstances. - No. - But yeah, at least they ended, it seems on happier terms, so I'll take it. So 1893, Wright ends up starting his own private practice and between 1900 and 1909, his practice booms. He ends up designing 135 houses, which is so many-- - 135, okay, how many years, nine? - This is from, this is only between 1900 and 1909. - Okay, so 135-- - 135 houses. - That's 15 houses a year. - It's 15 houses a year, yes. - That's insane. - That's insane. - That's insane, right? And most of these houses, they're in the new suburbs of Chicago, so the clients, they're pretty educated, they're pretty wealthy, they have money, and how we can describe this early style, it's exactly what you alluded to previously. They are leading examples of his prairie style. So this is where I always ask myself, are podcasts the right medium to describe art? No, not really, but we will try. Okay, so let's take you on a journey. When you think of prairie style, think of it this way, they're single story homes, right? So like we're not going skyscrapers here, we're talking about single story, they're very horizontal in nature, they have these low-pitched roofs, and what's important to think about is what was really important to write was to use locally available materials and wood that was primarily unstained and unpainted. So we really wanted to highlight, right? Like this is what the unvarnished, or whatever, like this is the natural grain of the wood, and the natural grain of the wood is a very huge part of my work. So one famous example, we'll share this later on Instagram, is the Robie House, which was described as strong, sculptural, and dynamic, and it has a lot of these hallmarks, it's super horizontal. And what I would honestly say is that it looks like a fortress from the outside. Like it's not one of those houses you walk by, and you're like, "Ooh, I can see the family." You're eating a turkey. It seems not very inviting and more locked down from the outside, but however, when you go into the inside of a lot of these prairie style houses, they're super expansive, because Frank Lloyd Wright, he loved having a ton of windows, he liked having open spaces, he liked having a lot of light. So it's interesting that on the outside, it looks like it's going to be like, "Ooh, doc, not inviting." But on the inside, extremely expansive. - I think it's so interesting to make your house, both inside and outside, almost like part of the landscape, right? - Yes. - Like you're literally building houses that look like a prairie, low and flat, right? Very much mimicking the nature around them inside, even bringing the wood inside and bringing the light inside. I think that's such a beautiful philosophy. And this one, the Robihouse is particularly robust, I would say, but it still looks, you know, like it could be, I don't know, it's beautiful. - It looks harmonious with the environment, and that was really important to write to. We'll get into it later, where write kind of ends up like not necessarily in favor of every, of all the modernist architecture, because it's criticism of it is, you know what, it's, it looks like it could be copy and pasted anywhere. Like this skyscraper could be in Paris, Chicago, New York, like it kind of be wherever it has no real soul to it, whereas exactly to your point, right? It had a huge emphasis on this organic style of you want to build a house that makes sense with its environment, as opposed to being like jam forced into its environment, and it's not very harmonious. - I think that I, it's especially interesting too, that during this time he's building single family homes too, right? These are like personal spaces. These are like entertaining spaces. You're not building a multi-unit skyscraper with apartments and building this one family that's meant to kind of be a part of the community around them. I think that's so beautiful. - I agree, I agree. And we're gonna, we're gonna talk about how deeply embedded write gets into the community, maybe a little bit too embedded for some of the husbands of some of the husbands in the suburbs of Chicago. So in 1903, write is commissioned to design a home for Edwin and Martha Mema Borthwick, Chaney, and their two children. So her name was Martha, but she went by Mema. And Mema was not, she was not a typical suburban housewife. She actually considered herself a feminist. She could speak multiple languages. So like definitely more of a free spirit, especially in the context of we're looking at these suburbs of Chicago. They're conservative. They're old school and they're thinking they have money, but they're not on the, we're not in like Paris, surrounded by all of these intellectuals, like questioning, is this the way we should be living on lines? - Is it Chicago? - Yeah. - And unsurprisingly, they end up becoming lovers. So write becomes intertwined with Mema. So much so to the point that write asks his wife Kitty for a divorce, but Kitty is like, no, I shall not grant you a divorce. - Oh my God, yes, snaps for Kitty. She's like, mm-mm, no, you're gonna take care of me and my six children. - Right, doesn't care. Right is like agreed to disagree. So in fall, 1909, he closes his studio with no warning. He leaves his wife and children and then embarks on a European tour with Mema. (laughing) - Okay, this is another strike against, right? Just leaving them behind. - This is another, I like how 30 seconds ago before you knew this information, Zach, you were like, I think it's beautiful that write is designing single family homes and he's being a part of the community. He was maybe a little bit too much part of the community for everybody's comfort. - Spent a little too much time with the housewife's building houses for them. - As you can imagine, writes actions of abandoning his family and then taking up with a then married woman. It outright, it outrages Oak Park. And when they end up returning to the US in 1911, they're pretty much iced out. Write is not getting a lot of commissions and they're not invited to social functions anymore because of this, right? The actions that they took are perceived as very transgressive. - Yeah, I mean, to pick up and leave for two years, just without really notice. No, did what's her name, Mema? Did she have kids? - Mema did have two children with her then husband. - Just abandoning the family, that's rough. I also would ice them out. - It's not a great one. - I mean, I'd wanna hear all the details, but also would ice them out. Can't come to my party. - I understand, I understand why people, and Zach do not pretend that you are so particular who's invited to your party because there were two squirrels fully inside your apartment, drinking from the punch bowl, having the time of their lives. - Chanting with all my friends. - Only two people, yeah, who would still be like, "Mema and right, Mema and Frank, they can hang. "They can be our friends." - Whatever, sure. - Whatever. - Fair. - Ooh, no, we can imagine that rights business is suffering at this time. And it's around this time that rights mother, Anna, ends up inheriting a few hundred acres of land in Wisconsin from relatives. And she ends up giving the property to Frank and he's like, "Hey, why don't you start a new life here?" Away from all of these people in Chicago who are not necessarily into your work anymore. That's not a bad idea, honestly. - It's not bad. So he, there in Wisconsin, he ends up building this house and they call it a house. Really, I think it's much more of a complex and it's named Taliesin after the name comes from a Welsh bard and in English, it translates to shining brow. - Hmm. - Hmm, interesting. Like your forehead? - Yeah, shining brow. - Like, so like a swingy forehead. - I don't, we should look into that more. TBD, we will follow up Taliesin. - Taliesin. - Taliesin. And guess which three people move into this house? The residential quarters of Taliesin. - Well, I assume Frank and Maima and-- - Frank and Maima. - And imagine if it was Frank's. No, no, no, no. So it's right. - And his mom. - Yeah, exactly. So it's right who's still married to Kitty. Maima, who at this time was already divorced and then Frank Lloyd Wright's mom. What? A crew. What a crew. - What a crew. Yeah. - And this compound, Taliesin, it includes a studio, office, living quarters for these three people. And also living quarters for the draftsmen, the workers who are supporting Frank and includes barns and stables. So it's a huge, huge expansive piece of land. But something unfortunate is about to happen. So in August 1914, Wright is away on business in Chicago. And he receives news that Taliesin has been destroyed in a fire. - What? Oh no. - So we can back up a little bit. Like, you know, how did this happen? So this is everybody get ready. If you do not want to listen to the violence involving an axe, you should skip ahead a little bit because we're about to get into the violence involving an axe. - Wait, while everyone is unplugging their headphones or while they're getting ready to walk away, I looked up the name Taliesin. So it means-- - Yes, please, okay, shining brow. Like, yeah, what does this mean mean? - So shining brow and Welsh, but it means that, or it's called that because it was built on and into the brow of a hill or a ridge. Right, so it's like built into the top of a ridge, the brow and it's shining. It's like a beautiful estate. - Oh, okay, I got it. It's kind of like a punctuation on this natural landscape or like a complementary element to this landscape. - Yes, exactly. - Yeah. - Okay. Okay, got it. - Okay, now you guys can leave. - Thank you, but get out of here. - Yes, now we are going to get into the axe murders. All right, so right hit hired a husband and wife to serve as a butler and cook at Taliesin and it's a regular, regular day on the compound. The butler, Julian Carlton, he serves lunch in his dress whites per usual, nothing out of the ordinary. And after he serves lunch, he asks another staff member of the house for gasoline to remove a stain from a rug. Because apparently in the early 1900s, this was common practice. If you had a tough stain, you would just rub some gasoline on that bad boy and it would be out in no time. - Okay, didn't know that. - So Julian Carlton starts to pour gasoline around Taliesin and the individuals who are eating lunch who include workers, other workers at Taliesin are like there's a smell and there's a liquid like coming in like around the floor. Like what's happening? Carlton locks all of the doors at Taliesin, except for one. And he stands outside of the unlocked door. He's holding an axe and as people try to escape the fire from the only unlocked door, he bludgens them with an axe. - Why, this is straight up out of a horror movie, why? - This is a horror movie. Seven people end up dying, including Maima. - No. - Her two children who had been visiting for the summer and four workmen, who you just happened to-- - It was in bystanders. - And live in Taliesin. Like unbelievable, it's honestly hard to be. - Like unbelievable. Like I am only picturing in my head the shining. I'm just picturing that and it's so scary. And why did he do it? Why did he do this? - So he was later found in the boiler room and he attempted suicide by swallowing hydrochloric acid and the hydrochloric acid so badly burned his throat and his vocal cords that he was really unable to provide a reason for why he did this. The burns were so severe that he was unable to eat and he ended up dying in jail seven weeks later of starvation and he never provided a reason for his actions. But there are hypotheses, there are hypotheses. - Okay, okay, hit me with some of them. Was it like scorned lover situation? - Not scorned lover, so there's a few hypotheses. One was that Carlton, that there had been a racist accusation levied against him because he was from Barbados. Another potential motivation for the attack was that Maima allegedly let Carlton and his wife know that they were both to be let go from Taliesin. So this was a potential act of retaliation and Carlton's wife did corroborate the fact that yes, we were actually scheduled to leave Taliesin either that night or the following night. - Wow, this is wild. I did not know this about him, about Franklin Wright's life. That is so messed up. - Yeah, and it causes a huge stir in the media. So we'll also include on our Instagram the original newspaper articles around when this event happened in 1914. - So can I ask a question? He was super famous at this point, right? Or like very famous. - Very, very, yeah, 'cause incredibly prolific from 1900 to 1909, his 135 houses all for wealthy clients. - And if he's having draftsmen living in his property in Wisconsin. - He's making money. - Wow, so it's crazy. This must have really been a scandal. Maima's having today that'd be wild. - This was a huge scandal, but right to his credit, I guess, or a part of his healing process, he ends up rebuilding, starting to rebuild Taliesin a month later. - Okay, all right. Wow, a month, barely grieves anything for Maima. - Oh, maybe that's his way for it, I don't know. - Yeah, who knows? But after, so in the newspaper, in all of the newspaper coverage from this, it's a very sensational story. So it makes sense that media outlets are like, wow, this is nuts. So some of the newspaper coverage isn't necessarily favorable. And they're like, this tragedy occurring shows what happens to people who abandon their families and show that there is justice, this is karmic justice. So Wright is really upset by that. And he ends up writing an open letter published in another newspaper. And in it, he states that he is going to start rebuilding Taliesin in Maima's memory. - Oh, wow. - Yeah. - I wonder how Kitty's feeling during all this time. - How is Kitty feeling in all this time? So let's go back to Wright's love life. - And his six kids. - Shortly after, and his six kids. Shortly after Maima's death, Wright receives a sympathy letter from Mary M. Knoll. And she is a wealthy divorcee who was infatuated with Wright and called him, "Lord of my waking dreams, ill." - Ill. - Ill. - Ill. - Ill. - They end up becoming involved. So Wright, that's a long after Maima's death, does take up with this Mary M. Knoll character. And she is pretty unstable. I don't usually like to describe women as crazy or unstable 'cause I feel like women will ask for such a reasonable things. Be like, "Hey, you know, I was upset when you cheated on me." And then kind of the retort to that is, "Don't be crazy." You know, like, women are like so, but I will say that, yes, after reading a little bit more about it, Mary M. was certified unstable. And a contributing factor to this, she was addicted to morphine. - So this could have... - Could have altered her brain state a little bit, maybe. - A little bit, just a little bit, you know? Messing. Okay, but back to Kitty. So Kitty ends up finally granting Wright a divorce and he ends up marrying Mary M. - Oh no, I didn't see that coming. Oh no, he's not making the best decisions. - He's not making great decisions, but grief is hard, so I do have sympathy from that perspective too, but you know, I have also experienced grief and never married Mary M. Knoll. So I have- - No. - Finite sympathy, Finite sympathy. - Yeah, thank you, that's a good way to put it. Finite. - Unsurprisingly, Mary M, with her addiction to morphine and her general, you know, she's generally unstable. She ends up leaving right for another man. But continues to harass him with threats and lawsuits. And again, Wright, he's like very covered in the press because they're having this like very publicly messy relationships, I'll fast forward a little bit just to like show some of their relationship. In 1927, by this point, Wright and Mary M are already divorced and he ends up spending that winter in La Jolla with Wright, his new flame and her children. When they're not there, Mary M goes to the cottage and just wrecks it. She destroys the cottage and she also steals some objects and I will also include this on Instagram. There's an official newspaper that is showing Wright and Mary M. Knoll just suing and countersuing each other for these like tons of tiny infractions, unhinged incidents that transpire between them. - It's like guys, why did you even get a divorce? Like, it feels like kids on a playground who are secretly in love with each other. This is good at most behavior. - I don't know, I don't know if they were secretly in love with each other. Mary M was, well, okay, well, let's rewind. - Well, she was a little unstable, as we said. - Yeah, she was a little bit unstable. So let's rewind before the divorce. In 1924, Wright is separated from Knoll but still officially married to her and he's watching a performance of the Russian ballet in Chicago. And what do you think is going to happen? - She storms in and she was just someone over the balcony. - And that was just being dramatic, I don't know. - Another homicide, no. So Wright is seated next to Olgivana and she was born in Montenegro, educated in Tsarist Russia and she is a dancer. And obviously Wright falls in love with this new woman while he is still married to Mary M. Knoll. So Wright is 57 at this point. She's already 57 years old. Do you want to take a guess? How old do you think Olgivana was? - 19. - Ooh, okay, I'll use a little bit better than that. Not much better but a little bit better. - But she's like 24 years. - She was 26. - Okay, okay, okay. - Not great, I'm like, essentially half, half his age, not great. They move fast and furious. She moves into Taliesin with her daughter, Svetlana, and they end up having another baby together. Iovana. - Frank. - Frank, what's going on, Frank? Tell us, what is happening to you? - And if you're not gonna tell us, tell them they're best. - So they're living together. They're living together. They have a baby together and may I remind you, he is still married to his second life. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My goodness. - And then in 1925, there is another fire at Taliesin that destroys the residential quarters. - Now, is this another in arson moment here? Or is this because he didn't go to architect school? - No, arson, yeah, kind of related to that. This is not arson related. This is actually a fire due to faulty wiring. - Okay, okay, so it's the architecture. - It never, yeah, so this is another challenge happening. So it truly never stops coming right, ends up falling into debt, the bank seizes the property, and he has to ask his friends for monetary help so that the entire property is not seized. - Oh no, how does he have friends anymore? At this point, you know? - Oh no, oh, he's designed a lot. He's designed homes for a lot of influential people, so maybe he actually has a lot of favors to call on. - Yeah, that's true, but I don't know, after the whole like leaving your wife and your six kids at home and going to Europe for two years with a woman that then gets murdered and right after that, you meet another woman and then during the divorce of that woman, you meet another woman and you have babies with all of them and like, I don't know, I don't know. - It's not a great look. You know, I am no Frank Lloyd Wright defender. I am only, I am only sharing the facts because mess loves mess in 1926, Wright is arrested in Minneapolis. Nothing violent, he hasn't done anything violent. He's arrested under the Man Act. - What thing is the Man Act? - The Man Act specifically prohibits the transportation of a woman across state lines for immoral purposes. So he lives with Olga Vanna at Taliesin. However, they go rent a cottage together in Lake Minnetonka in Minnesota, right? So they're moving state lines. And the important part is that he's renting a cottage with a woman who is not his wife. - Not his wife. And he's married. - He's not his wife. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, and he's married still. Let us not forget that he's married still. He ends up spending several days in jail. - Not long enough. - Not great. (laughs) And in 1928, Wright and Maryam Knoll finally divorced and he pretty immediately married Olga Vanna. But in a shocking turn of events, they end up staying together until his death. - I didn't see him coming. - From '24 to 1934, we're experiencing the same Oak Park problem. Wright is having very few commissions for a couple of reasons. So the first is that Great Depression starting in 1929, people are not really in the market to buy these extravagant homes built by a famous architect. And then the second reason is that Wright is getting left behind a little bit by the modernist movement because these modernists, they favor building with concrete, metal, glass, it's this very sleek international look where it's like, is this skyscraper in a major US city and like which one, really it's interchangeable. They're building for this international taste. And Wright, on his side, he still likes building with wood and brick and stone. He's old school in that way. - Yeah, so some people, by this time, they're really thinking, you know, right, you had a good run, but maybe, you know, maybe it's over, maybe it's over for you. And in 1929, wealthy clients, they're barely reaching out to him, but he ends up establishing in 1932 with his wife Olga Vanna, the Taliesin Fellowship. And this is a genius business move because as we remember, Wright is not good with money and he's not only not good with money, he's not making a lot of money at this point. So what he does is invite groups of individuals who are aspiring architects to come study with him. And these, they're not only unpaid labor since they're living in Taliesin, they are paying him and his wife for the privilege of learning under the tutelage of renowned architect, Frank Lloyd Wright. - Oh my goodness, wow, genius business decision. - It's a no small part because of this Taliesin Fellowship that we have one of his most famous structures because their son actually completed the Taliesin Fellowship. And then this wealthy couple earned, oh, you know what? Frank Lloyd Wright really shares our love of nature. We're going to have him design our country house. So can you guess Zach? Which wealthy department store owner commissions Wright to design this iconic home in 1934? - Oh, I don't know. - What is the iconic home? - Well, the iconic home is falling water. - Yes, yes. So Frank Lloyd Wright, he designs the iconic falling water in Bear Run, Pennsylvania. And it's particularly iconic because it really, you've been there, you know, it's built over the stream. So instead of building the house in a way that, oh, it has this nice view of the stream, the stream is now a part of the home and it's deliberate. Wright really wants this couple to live, quote, live with the waterfall as an integral part of their lives. - That's so cool. I love that. - It's a iconic iconic building, yeah. So it's a ton of reinforced concrete trays anchored to natural rock. There's these terraces of local sandstone and they blend with the natural rock formations. They look like they're floating above the stream. And what I think is so cool about this home. So the first floor, huge open space made to feel even bigger because it has a ton of windows and it's very open floor plan. That first floor, what I think is so cool is that hatch in the living room that you can open and then it leads to the suspended staircase and you actually descend into the stream below. - That's incredible. - It's so cool. - Yeah, it's wild. I feel like this is a big change for him. I mean, it's still the ideals of like being a part of nature and using local resources and blending in, but this feels more much more adventurous than some of his earlier stuff. - I agree. This is a huge way and it's crazy because he was 67 years old when he embarked upon falling water. Super long career. - And he wasn't done. - I know we're over. No, he wasn't done yet. I'll rush us through this very last iconic building. I just wanna touch on very quickly. So the Guggenheim in 1943, Wright was commissioned to build the Guggenheim in New York. And for everyone who's not familiar with Guggenheim, it's this white colored structure in New York, iconic houses, a modern art collection. And it looks not unlike a parking structure. You know what I mean? It's a cool parking structure, but it looks not unlike a parking structure. Yeah, it's this huge spiral ramp that has this domed skylight at the top of it. Tons of natural light streaming in. And tons of artists, including Willem de Kooning, did not like this design. They didn't like the spiral walkway. They didn't like that it was this curvilinear slope. And they thought it was not suitable to display their art. They were like, why are we gonna display our art on curved walls? Our art was not meant to be enjoyed in this format. - I mean, that is a very good point. When you go and see a thing there, it is you're like, well, okay, well, how do they do this on the curve? And it's linear, you have to go one direction or you can go backwards. - In this way. - Yeah, in a very particular order, which is a very cool way of, I think, making curation out of art a little different, but at the same time, very different. - Yeah, artists were not pleased. He did, Frank Lloyd Wright. He came up with this idea. And even though he was asked to take this project on in 1943, it wasn't built until 1959. There were tons of delays due to design changes, rising costs of building materials, the death of the museum's benefactor Solomon Guggenheim. So all of these were huge blockages. Frank Lloyd Wright ended up dying in 1959 after an operation for an intestinal blockage. He was 91 years old and then, yeah, sad. So he actually never got to see the finished, right, he never got to see the public debut of the Guggenheim because the Guggenheim ended up opening to the public six months after Wright's death. - Oh, wow. Wow, he missed it by a second. This isn't like the Sagrada Familia situation where it's been 100 years later. It's still being part of us, right after his death. - Wow, I mean, 91 years old though. He was old. - In a long career. - Yeah. - He made falling water when he was 67. You know, like this was, it's just incredible that he just like kept on pushing the envelope even like far, far, far. - Yeah. - Right, like I feel like he didn't peak early on in his career. - No, I mean, it's cool that things are, yeah, like his style is always changing. Falling water was different than all those early homes. Guggenheim is drastically different isn't a lot of the other stuff that he built wild. - And I agree, I agree. And that is the last, a Franklin wrap. - He's iconic, a little stressful, I will say. - Extremely stressful, I would say stress level 10. - Yeah, yeah, I just, I feel for Kitty, I feel for Mamah, I feel for Olga Vay, what is her name, Olga, Olga? - Olga Vanna. - Olga Vanna. - Olga Vanna. - Olga Vanna, I just, yeah, I mean, he is true genius, self-centered genius. - Self-centered, super self-centered. - I love his architecture. - So messy, I love his architecture too. - So messy, Taliesin, burning down twice. - Twice. - Seven people are ax murdered on your property. You get arrested under the man act for transporting a woman for-- - They're in a years long, back and forth lawsuits with one of your former-- - Your wife. - Yeah. - Your current wife. - Your current wife, it's crazy. I mean, it's like-- - It's crazy. - Just, like, it's so interesting 'cause it's like, I love his art, I love his buildings. And yet, even though that stuff is so clean and crisp, it's like his personal life was just full fucking mess. - Was not clean, nor crisp. - That is clean, well messy. And also, his personal life was barely personal. His personal life was extremely public. He was in the newspapers for abandonment for the tragedy of Taliesin, for the messy back and forth with Mariam Noel. - Mm-hmm, wow. - Thanks for sharing that one. - I know this is a long course, and I know this is a long episode because we just had to have time for all of his messiness, but now, we will step away from Frank Lloyd Wright, and I will turn this over to you for today in art. - Yes, okay, it's time for today in art. So, I want to show you a picture. Let me just pull it up and send you the link because I want you just to look at the picture itself. All right, there is this photo award, a little competition for photography, called People's Vote Award at the 1839 Photography Awards. So, there's this one People Vote at this big photography award. And for the first time ever, they had a category for AI pictures. So, things created with AI. - Yeah, interesting. - Yeah, I know. So, I want to show you the winning photo by an artist named Miles Astra. Okay, ready? Here it is. - All right, I saw this. Let me see if this is familiar to me. Why did this win? - Okay. Do I have no taste? - No. - What? - I don't know, I don't know. But this is an AI image, yeah. So, this is the winner of the AI image category. And it's called Flaming Gone. All caps, F-L-A-M-I-N-G-O-N-E. - Okay, I enjoy that. I like a cheeky little title, so I'm in favor of this. - Same. So, for our listeners, I'll put the photo on our Instagram. It's a crazy picture, I'm so good at it, yeah. - It's essentially a photograph of a Flamingo whose head appears to be missing or bent into the body, I guess. Like, it's just the body of a photo and legs on a white background, yeah, it's so funny. Okay, so it's a pretty big deal that this one too, this category, because the prize is juried and voted on by representatives from the New York Times, the auction houses like Christie's, Publishing House called Fade On and other places, yeah. So some big names are involved in this. So, he wins this award, Miles Astra, but pretty quickly after he wins, it is discovered that he-- - It's a real image. - Actually, yes, he did not digitally make this, this is actually a real photograph. - What a plot twist, because so many times, it's like the Pope in a puffer jacket, and it's like, oh, AI generated. And now, this is like, what an uno reverse situation has been thrust upon us. - It's so funny to me, I don't know why this really got me when I was reading about it, 'cause it's just like, it's just a huge smack in the face of this AI award too, where they're like, we've awarded all these prestigious judges are like, who are this beautiful AI generated photo called Flamingo, like, Miles Astra, congratulations. But it turns out it was a photograph. So, Astra, or Astra actually, maybe his last name I'd be, I might have said that wrong. On his website, he wrote that he had intentionally submitted it, because he wanted to advocate for photos-- - Real photography. - Exactly, exactly by human, yeah, human-made stuff. And he has this long quote, all kind of paraphrase part of it. Yeah, I think this is incredible. He said, with AI generated content remodeling the digital landscape rapidly while sparking an ever-fierce debate about its implications for the future of content and the creators behind it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I entered this photo into the AI category to prove that human-made content has not lost its relevance, and that much mother nature and her human interpreters can still beat the machine, and that creativity and emotion are more than just a string of digits. Which I'm just like, yes, well done, like, so good. And I think it's especially interesting too, because this is came, there was a similar situation happened last year, actually, so this is the 2024 awards. Back in 2023, in a different award, this is the World Photography Organization's Sony World Photography Awards, the craziest long name, but it was the Sony World Photography Awards in 2013. The artist who won, won for a picture that had been created with the help of an AI generation. So it's the opposite situation just happened in 2023, where an actual photography award was won by an AI generated picture, and that artist, like I named Boris Eldex on you. Ultimately, when he won, he came forward and publicly declined the award. 'Cause in a similar way to Miles Estre, he was like, I'm trying to show you that we need to be stricter about the use of the AI in the space. - Judging or that, yeah, yeah. - And he said AI images and photography should not compete with each other in an award like this, and you guys need to get better at it, but I think it's fun. So this happened a year later, again, just reiterating that. The organizers removed him from the competition, Mike Miles Estre, and said something like, his submission did not meet the requirements, obviously. And they said, we understand that was the point, but we don't want to prevent other artists from their shot at winning in the AI category. Biggest eye roll ever. - I just think it's so funny to me, yeah. I just think it's really funny. And what a good conversation to have about AI art in the world of human-made art, real art. - How did, I agree, how did it come to light that it was a real image and not AI? Did he just release a statement? Did he was like, hey guys, I won, and actually, because that would be such a flex. I don't know, I actually don't know. - Or later, they were like, oh, like little diagnostics, and they were like, whoa, this is just a normal picture. - It came out after he won. So he won. - Yeah, after he won. - Yeah, it was like presented the award, and then they were like, they found out. So maybe somebody tipped him off, or maybe he finally just published him as like, ha ha. Yup, suckers. - Got you. - Yeah. - I mean, I think it's hilarious because it looks AI-generated. Like it looks like whatever is hallucinating, because you're like, ooh, it's a very unsettling image, because you can kind of see, oh, like when a duck is tucked into itself, whatever. You can like kind of see, oh, this is where it is. This just looks like a little puff ball on flamingo legs, where it's just like, ooh, I don't like that. - Yeah, I know, I just think I'm so impressed with him for picking a photo that could pass his AI, or taking a photo that could pass his AI. - That is a huge-- - It's a very cheeky. - Yeah. - It's a very cheeky, and it's a very funny to me, so not opposed to it. - So everyone, please go check out the artwork of Myles Australia. Very cool, very cool stuff. - Ah, I love it. Okay, Zacharys, you gonna take us away for the week? - Yes, let's do it. Thank you so much, everyone, for joining us. That's all we have for you this week. Leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. Subscribe and follow us on Instagram @knotarchiscorians. And that's where we'll share images mentioned during today's episode, but yeah, check us out. And don't forget to tune back in next week. We got another amazing artist for you. Thanks so much, everyone. See you next week. - See you next week, bye.