(upbeat music) - Welcome to episode 318 of "If Touch What I Was," the show that talks about iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, Apple TV, and related technologies. I'm your host Dave Ginsburg, and I've got Kelly Gomob back here on the show. How you doing, Kelly? - I'm doing well, David, how are you? - Doing great, so glad you're here. - What? - Also have Marty Gentius here. You don't, Marty, you just fresh back from your trip? - Yeah, back from a vacation of driving around the Midwest in search of good Wi-Fi, man, I didn't find any. - You sure didn't last week when you were on the show, so, but you went through it, you got through it really well. I was impressed. - Well, yeah, yeah, just any other spot at the time that I needed it, it wasn't available. So I'm glad to be home. You know, it's like you get to take your own shower in your own house that you're used to, and you get to use your own setup that you've used. It's the same sort of feel, so. - Yeah, exactly. Ben's a little under the weather, we'll miss you, Ben, and Jeff, he had other other things to do today, but glad he's taken care of what he has to take care of, but we miss you both, but we'll know we'll be back next week. We've got lots of stuff to talk about here. Beta keeps going on, more updates, and all kinds of stuff. We always just jump right into the topics for this week. We're gonna start right off with updates. iOS 17.6.1 was released yesterday as we record this. It was a minor update, but there were some security updates specific to an issue with the, it's enabling and disabling the advanced data protection. - Yeah. - Some bug fixes and a lot of other specific things. You know, it's always bug fixes is generally what these updates are. I thought one generally isn't a big thing, but they obviously released it for a reason when it comes to security. So very important to get that up to date and all your devices, iPadOS has got the change as well as iPhone and get that taken care of. Did you have anything to add on that, Kelly? - Yeah, just my occasional reminder that the less Apple says about the update, the more important it is to apply. So they say security resolution, like go do that right now. If you can't get any solid information about what it is that's actually changed, you need to drop everything and go update all of your screens forth with because the reason they don't say anything about it is so that people don't get hit by some sort of exploit or something. And usually when something comes out on an off day, like software updates don't normally come out on a Wednesday. And if you get one, especially if it's small like this, it's usually we have found this security issue and it is active. It is something people are doing right now that is a problem or it's something that's big enough like the advanced data protection, which is the, I wanna call it like the stalker setting on your phone. It's the one for like I am in danger and having someone else have access to my data could lead to peril for someone. That's what the advanced data protection piece is and not being able to enable that and disable that effectively is really important. So whenever you get something that feels a little hand wavy as far as what it is you actually need to do in order to get the update, what you get out of the update, go run it immediately. So. - Yeah, I'm the idiot that's running all the betas, but I'll tell you what happens is like Mac world just opened and saw there was an article in it this afternoon and said drop everything and update your devices. And until I got into the article, I realized it was what we're talking about right now. - And so then I went in. - Emergency. - Yeah, yes. So then it's sort of like, well, I'm running the betas, but it does remind me to check all my betas to see if there's an update on 18.0. So every time there's a warning about an update on 17, I go and check all my other devices and see if they've rolled something out anyways for the developer beta. - Yeah, but there actually was an update to iOS 18. It's in beta five. - Yeah. - That was released yesterday as well. It's got the Safari's distraction and control, the photo apps update, then there were some more updates along with that as well. Number of different updates as we all know going with that. And sounds like, Marty, you just probably just installed it to try to even figure out what there was added to it, right? - No, I mean, I tried to with vision 'cause VisionOS came out with the developer beta and an update. And you know, when you go back to the developer notes, I'm reading and what's going on with the beta updates. I'm reading information that I read three updates ago. So, you know, these are things that have happened over the course of the of OS 2.0 and the betas, but it, you know, so I'm like, oh, well, yeah, that happened the last beta. Yeah, it doesn't really define clearly what's going on, what's been added in the new beta to try and find it. So I have to pay attention to Reddit and some other threads that people have found stuff with in the new beta updates. This one, at least for VisionOS, looks like it's all patches and fixes. So a lot of swift UI fixing on it, but not any new kind of functional stuff for users yet. Yeah, that's gelling what beta is. It's gonna be stuff that you guys pick apart to figure that out. Anything else notable on Vision Pro that you wanted to add to that? No, no, not that I could, not from the betas. And I just, frankly, I just loaded them yesterday. So, and tried to play with them last night, so. Yep. So we also have WatchOS that has a beta that came out and as well as TVOS and not too much notable there, but they also, that's then the developer beta is beta five and there's also the public betas, those are out. The third public beta of iOS 18 and iPadOS 18 is out now. So as well as WatchOS 11 and the TVOS as well. So very, very active beta cycle here, I tell ya. It's as well as 18.1, I don't think a new version of that has come out just yet, unless I've missed it. I believe where they're still on, they're still on that. That version, of course, added the AI and it isn't really much else, 'cause of that only will work on iPhone 15 Pro and the Pro Max at the present time. So you're not gonna get too much activity on that, nor am I gonna ever put it on my production device. So my beta device is iPhone 13, so I think we'll stick with just iOS 18. So like I said, it's because of Apple intelligence that just made it hard, and they had to go through and separate it out, 'cause these devices, now these devices aren't gonna be compatible there. - Yeah, I was on a where I was getting Apple intelligence on my phone. It just seemed like Apple was suggesting new things for me as I was composing stuff. And I'm used to that on other platforms with other like Grammarly and other kinds of AI that I use. So it just kind of threw me for a loss, and it was like, oh, well, maybe this is AI in Apple's developer beta that I'm noticing now, so. - Yeah, so yeah, there's all kinds of things to start exploring and playing with and all that stuff. So the couple notable things, like my iOS 18, this go around here, arranging the icons around your iPhone wallpaper. I really liked the way they've done this. You really can overhaul your homepage and make it really personalized for you, the customizations and personalizations, and then the freedom to arrange the icons and widgets with space between them, opening it up. So they're all kinds of different layouts. Have you tried that at all, I'm already with yours? Do you have, do you? - Yeah, yeah, I have. - Yeah, I've moved them around and left some spaces open. And that's, I hate to say it's helpful when I'm trying to suggest while I'm driving to my wife, use this app or get into this app on my phone for me. Now that things can be segmented a little bit better, I can tell her what section to find them in and where to get it. You know, with the ability to customize apps so much, at this point it's a little scary because I have that visual memory of this is what the app looks like and there's a name underneath it generally. And if I start messing around with it, then I'm all in a completely different learning curve again. And it makes it even harder for me to kind of explain it to someone while I'm driving if I want them to go into this map or check this app for me, whatever. Even with CarPlay, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I would talk about the YouTube channel real quick. We've got a number of folks in the chat tonight. That's youtube.com/intouch with iOS. And Ben's in the chat. How you doing, Ben? Again, we miss you. We were at the top of show. We thought everybody were a little under the weather. I'm glad you're feeling a little bit better to be in chat with us as well as cleanness and Brian F is there as well. Thanks for being here and I have enjoyed the ride here of all the fun stuff we're talking about right now. The other thing I wanted to hit on with iOS 18 was the hide app names. That is another unique thing on the home screen, which is kind of interesting. I kind of like this 'cause you may not necessarily want to have the labels on 'em 'cause we've been so used to having that for many years. But I'm used to 'em, I kind of like 'em 'cause then some people forget what those icons really are. But you can go in and actually, the names of the apps are just removed from the grid which increases the size of the icons and the widgets on your home screen with the space saved. You'll get larger icons, maximum of six icons, rows with four icons each as well. So you got a lot more rows without the names, of course. We got our article here from Macromas here that shows you some of the ways you can go through and edit this and it would definitely be covering this more as time progresses when it is released. So that's another great thing. You tried this at all at Marty at all years? - No, David, so it gives you an extra row if you take, is that what I'm hearing, right? If you take the names out of it? - Yeah. - Might be worse, might be worse doing it. - I might try it on my iPhone 13 yet, but yeah, I'm gonna try this. - Yeah. - I think this is something really cool here. - Honestly, the arranged things and put the spaces wherever you want on the home screen is the thing that's making me think I might wanna go beta before it ships because that just seems like such a good idea. And it's been so long and coming 'cause you could do this on Android forever ago. And it's one of the things that I've always really liked about my Android test devices and stuff is I can put spaces in wherever I want, I can have just the icons at the bottom if I want 'cause that's all I can hit with my thumb and that's pretty great. Now, if they would just fix the other interface thing that I have wanted for like 15 years now, that's awesome. I'm tired of speech balloons around text messages. That's what I want. It takes up so much space to have the little thing you can just have them be different colors and on different sides of the screen. I don't need the little thing. It all takes up so much space. I don't need it. Let me at least have an option for a compact view. This is the windmill I will tilt at forever. Listen, five gigabytes of iCloud for those of you who like to see me in case you distract Chuck on back quizzes. Same thing, five gigabytes in this day and age is an insult. So yeah. - Kelly's playing all the hits tonight. I can tell. You got to make it count, right? - Yeah. Another feature that was discovered that they've added is the iOS 18 is adding a camera as a camera setting to allow the iPhone audio playback when shooting video. Apple has added a control in the camera's app settings and menu which lets you choose whether audio playing on your iPhone should pause or continue when you start recording in video mode. In previous versions of iOS you would shoot shooting in video mode in the camera automatically pauses and plays playing audio including music and podcasts. This behavior is based on the assumption that you don't want any sound coming out of your iPhone's speaker to be picked up on the video recording. But it's no good if you want to play a soundtrack to a company, whatever you're shooting. One way to get around this was to use the quick take method of recording video and photo mode that was just way back in iOS 13, which allowed any audio playback to continue during shooting. The only issue is quick take recordings is lower quality than the video mode it was capable of. But that won't matter because this is going to have a nice toggle mode here. This is kind of cool allowing audio playback as well as if you wanted to record mono or stereo. Sometimes you want to depending on what the track is. So this is another cool feature they've added. So we're really getting some high and a lot of highly cool features in iOS 18 so far. Any thoughts on that? - It just seems like, oh, I'm sorry, Kelly. - Oh, no, go ahead. - It just seems like they're really setting it up to be, to use it as a video camera without having to do a lot of the patching or the post production stuff. You can do it right when you're recording, which is pretty cool. - Yeah, well, yeah, for sure. So yeah, that's iOS 18, some of the updates that were happening here. Couple things I wanted to talk about here, this was an interesting story here and I wanted to, because I thought this would be a good topic, that there was a report that Apple is beginning some serious work on a foldable iPhone. There's been some details also about the 16, the 17, and the newer SE. Lots of rumors and speculation have been moving around to reduce its first foldable iPhone. A lot of, and again, this is all rumor, but I thought this would be kind of fun. But this was posted on the tech publication, the information, they're pretty credible publication there. So, sources say that Apple has begun discussing specific component requirements with suppliers offering several new details about both the foldable devices, as well as the upcoming iPhone 16, 17, and the revamped iPhone SE. The foldable probably won't even arrive for another two years at very least, taking about that much scope with their process, because Apple's very meticulous with their manufacturing process. But it's possible to maybe even band it just like they did with the Apple car, right? (laughs) First off, let's start with you, Kelly. Do you think Apple's ever gonna come out of a foldable device? I'd be, I'm on the fact. - I feel like eventually, and part of the reason for that is when you look at the demographics of the population, people are getting older, and therefore, squinnier. And I have had more than one conversation with somebody that was basically like, the Pro Max is almost a big enough screen for a phone. When are they gonna make the Pro Max Pro? You know, like, I want an even bigger one than that, but it won't, you know, that won't actually even fit in your pants pocket. So, they're gonna have to make a foldable one for people to be able to, you know, up the system zoom, one or two more notches, whatever. Honestly, this fits in well with what we've seen from Apple before. They're not the first, you know, they didn't make the first MP3 player, they didn't make the first cell phone, they didn't make the first watt that was a sidekick to your mobile device, they didn't make the first tablet, you know, they never did, but they always went about it in an interesting way. So, whether we, like, I really hope we get to see it in some fashion, whether it's because a Air Force One walks out on stage and gives us the grand debut, like Dub Dub 28 or something, or it's later somebody, you know, like the project got killed and then later somebody leaks the, you know, here was the prototype of the one that we tried to make, but, you know, we could never make it possible to happen or whatever, you know, that kind of stuff is always interesting to me. So, I think we're gonna see it in some fashion eventually, but I think Apple's gonna have to try and nail the hinge on this, I think that's been the problem all along is making sure that the screen is durable enough that you can fold and unfold approximately a squillion times over the life of one of these devices. And, you know, at that point, it's gonna cost as much as MacBook Air. So, you know, like, why they're not gonna just put a cellular radio in a MacBook Air, I'm still not quite sure about, but, you know, I would be, I'm unsurprised to hear that it is possible that maybe they are testing it because I just presume that kind of thing happens at Apple all the time. Somebody says, you know what would be awesome? And somebody else says, you might be right. So, go see what you can do to turn it into reality. And there is somewhere, a physical manifestation of a 5G MacBook. There's a physical manifestation of a foldable phone. There's, you know, all these kinds of things. I assume there's iPhones in Mac colors, you know, somewhere in a supply closet there in Cupertino. Like, all kinds of ideas that come and go all the time that may not even make it on the rumor radar. So, yeah, I would be unsurprised to see it happen. - Yeah. Well, thank you, Marty. What do you think on thoughts of this foldable device? - I'll probably be first in line to get one. - I know you will be. (both laughing) - You know, I, you know, I owned a pixel fold. - That's right. - A year ago, a year and a half ago. And I enjoyed it. And I know, Kelly, you, you know, and understand the Android system really well. The thing that made me give up, give up on the pixel fold was the, the interface, the software, what I could get that I didn't get with my Apple, or that I did get with my Apple phone. So, if Apple's able to do it, I'll probably be first in line to get one. And was that a ball game this weekend? And saw somebody using their galaxy fold and sitting in front of me. And I thought, "That's interesting." I started to get phone envious again, but did not run out and get a galaxy. Yeah. And, you know, with the pixel fold that I had, the screen was not a problem. There was not an issue as you, as you thought of, but I just needed all those Apple apps that I use that I couldn't get on that device. Now, if it turns out to be one of those fold phones like the little razor phones or whatever they are, no, that's, for me, that's the kids market. I don't know how a kid could afford a phone that expensive if they do it that way. If it's the book fold kind of thing that we see with other devices, yeah, I'm first in line. Yeah, I've seen a couple of those and it's a really interesting idea, but they haven't been around long enough for me to look at one that's, you know, two or three years old. 'Cause a lot of people, especially if you're gonna spend, you know, I'm assuming that's gonna be more money than you would pay for a phone now. You know, and if you're up to 12, 13, 15, $100 for a phone, then you're gonna use it for a long time. And I wanna see a five-year-old Samsung lip-ity do-da and, you know, like, what does that look like in real life when somebody's been putting it in their pocket and unfolding it a squillion times a day and, you know, how does that hold up over time? You know, a five, six, seven, eight-year-old, one of those, like, show me that because that's the thing that will determine whether or not. 'Cause I will probably, I will be very interested whether or not I, and, like, will kind of want one because it would be great. And it might fit in my pocket again, like the old days. And, you know, but I could still have a reasonably sized screen and that would be awesome. But I'm not sure in practical terms, you know, what that's gonna look like, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. No, that's definitely the case here. So it's gonna, we'll see where it goes. That's all we can say. Again, I think it's, like I said, about two years down the road before we even getting close to if it even bringing a possibility. But we'll see. The other interesting topic I wanted to talk about is how fast is 5GSA in the U.S. and around the world? Okola is, I think I say that, right? Is that what the latest report does with this new data focusing on how fast the 5GSA's connections are in the U.S. and other countries. And there's a, there's just show to look here what the median speeds are and how much they've improved over a year. The U.S. and Southeast Asia have been the two areas of to embrace the technology early with T-Mobile being the only major provider in the U.S. to launch. It's to launch support, which some brought to be a customer with T-Mobile because their speeds have been pretty amazing. And they said T-Mobile tout speeds up to 3.3 gigabits. Yikes, wow, that's crazy. You must be standing on top of a tower for getting that. But for the U.S. it was up, it was at 363.5 megabits per second. And that's up from 2.79 last year. So to look at some of the speeds in the different countries here and going over year over year here, it's interesting, Brazil, it was at 543 average last year, dropped down to 4.74. As I said, the United States was at 2.79 through 3.64 now. This year, Canada was right around the same speed as the U.S. But you can go into other countries like South Korea, what a surprise on average 729. And Singapore 517 and so on. Interestingly, the left Japan is very slow. It's only like around 276 comparatively speaking. So it's really great to see that the speeds are improving. I mean, I can give you firsthand experience. I mean, I had to buy a 5G Wi-Fi device for Verizon for somebody at work. And we did some testing on it and right off the bat, because we've been buying 4G devices for years. And I said, "All right, I'm going to stop buying these things. It's got to be 5G." So took it out of the store and then connected it with Diaphone, it was getting 600 megabit speeds, right on average, you know, with that device. So yeah, so these T-Mobile, Verizon, AT&T, they've all really come a long way. And that's why this home internet service is becoming more and more popular among-- - Possible. - Yeah, I mean, it is. So it's pretty impressive considering. I mean, I've got fiber and I've always been talking about here, but I also have another, I've been dealing with Comcast, Xfinity, and I'll talk about that in a little bit. My interesting story just happened just before the show started here. But yeah, speeds are pretty impressive. Marty, I'm starting with you. What are your thoughts on these speeds? And are you attaining a lot of these speeds in your area? - Well, you know, I've got Spectrum coming in at 1G into my home, hardwired into my system here. But I had the most experience I had with this was last week 'cause I was traveling, hitting a few hotels, hitting a few cottages, and I got a Solis, a SOL, I asked like MIFI. And on Monday, I ordered the 4G 'cause I'm like, I'm not sure I wanna put money into this. And I tested it out at home and I was getting miserable speeds. So I went ahead and ordered on Amazon the 5G version and sent back the 4G version. So I wound up paying a bit more for this 5G version. And I was getting pretty good speeds with it. It depending on if I was in an area that had saturated Wi-Fi or cellular that I could jump on. Northern Wisconsin, not so much. Actually, there was one place I stayed in a hotel where I was near sort of near a country highway and was able to pick up on my Mint Mobile Cellular 5G. But not on T-Mobile and not definitely not on AT&T. So I wound up running the podcast that we did for Vision Profiles a couple of days ago off my T-Mobile by hotspotting my T-Mobile 5G in order to do it. So yeah. Yeah. I was looking at 200, I was looking at 200 gigabytes or megabytes per second. Which is fair. Which was surprising, yeah. Nice. Definitely fair. So that's going to continue to evolve. Good, good, good topic here. Another topic I thought was interesting is the fact that Apple used Google Tensor chips to develop Apple intelligence. Apple used the TPUs Tensor Processing Units that's developed by Google instead of NVIDIA's widely used graphics processor units, GPUs to construct two critical components of Apple intelligence. The decision was detailed in the new research paper that was published by Apple. Now they're being open about it in reliance on Google's cloud hardware. And the paper reveals that Apple utilizes 2048 of Google's TPU 5P chips to build AI models and 8192 TB view of the four processors for server AI models. Research paper does not mention NVIDIA explicitly but the absence of any reference to NVIDIA's hardware is in the description of Apple's AI infrastructure is telling and this omission suggests a deliberate choice in favor of Google's technology. So this is very interesting to see, you know, Apple's pretty much been in partnership with Google for many years. I mean, Google pays Apple $20 billion to be the default search engine on Apple devices. What do you think, Kelly, on this? - I think it's interesting anytime we actually get quantifiable, legitimate information about Apple, about any two great big companies teaming up. So Apple and Google for a thing, Apple and Amazon for a thing, Apple and Microsoft for a thing, Microsoft and Google. Like whenever any of the great big tech behemoths team up on something, I'm always interested in seeing what it is, what it looks like, you know, how it turns out. So those are always fun things to look at. I thought the thing that was interesting about it mostly was that it was the type of processor it was because it's not GPU's like people use for lots of things and the word Intel didn't show up in there anywhere which I also thought was kind of notable. 'Cause like honestly, I was sort of like surprised that Google was cranking out chips that would be on a scale where somebody could do something at this scale, like that they would be powerful enough for somebody to, for any organization to, you know, stack a bunch of them together and do something really impressive with them. So I figured that would be, you know, an Intel job, Qualcomm job, you know, an Apple internal job. So finding out that it was Google was kind of interesting to me when we were, when I was getting through this. Yeah. - How about you, Marty? - I think Apple had to tell all the M4 chips to leave the room so the tensors wouldn't feel self-conscious and, you know, they had to make a safe space for the tensor chips to do the AI work on it. You know, to me, it's just all processors and however they slap it together to make it work and develop, it's cool. - Yeah, oh, it definitely is. That I'm gonna be interesting to see where this goes and how we do it, how it progresses, for sure. Apple TV Plus, we've had a number of new shows and movies to watch on Apple TV Plus, as we've talked about in many weeks, that Apple's original TV shows and movies are in the 4K HDR quality and you can watch them on all kinds of screens and it's a good quality. Sometimes you can actually go watch for a free Apple TV shows, sometimes they do offer little episodes here and there, so you can watch them as well. I'll just finished a presumed innocence, presumed innocence with Jake Johnall, amazing show. If you haven't seen it yet, I'd highly recommend it. It's only an eight-episode series for this season, so I think they're gonna have another season from the way it looked. I know Cowboy Cartel was a new one that was just released, that's a docu-series about how Scott Lawson as a new FBI agent follows a hunch and discovers a vast money laundering operation, so that could be very interesting. That is a very interesting show, as well as women in blue, there's another one. Time Bandits has been pretty popular, I haven't jumped on watching that yet. I love Time Bandits, it is so fun. I don't think it's as much fun as some, it's by take away TD and it takes place in the same universe as the movie for people who remember the film. There's a lot of differences between them, so far I've really enjoyed it. It's been really entertaining to watch. Yeah, I got some shows I really gotta jump on, it's hard to watch everything, I tell you. I'm a football fan and HBO, sorry, Max, has hard knocks when they're doing the Chicago Bears, which is exciting for being a Bears fan. It's just the first episode drop this Tuesday, just as we record this and it was really great, great episode to see if you're a football fan. Hard knocks has been around for many years, they've highlighted lots of different teams each year out, then the Bears were always reluctant to do it, but they decided to do it this year. So, rightfully so, since they have their number one draft, of course, quarterback with Kalee Williams and they really have revamped their team, so those are other shows that are out there that they're worth watching, so. And a number of other things on all the other Scranton streaming services, but Apple TV Plus is holding their own, there's a lot of great content. Anything that you've watched lightly Marty on the Apple TV Plus? Not, I think the next thing I'm gonna watch is Sunny. I'm really fascinated by that concept. I'm slowly working my way through the third season of The Orville, and I don't want that to be. - Oh my God, I love The Orville. - Like working my way slowly through that season. And I'm doing all my watching on my Vision Pro headset. So, you know, so I play around with other stuff in there and then I give myself the gift of an episode of Orville, but yeah, definitely the Vision Pro has helped me engage more in Apple TV, and I will probably look at Sunny next. - Yeah, The Orville, I mean, I blame Jeff Cammett. - Jeff, he told me to watch it. I got hooked and I was like binge watching it for like, not even a week, but all three seasons. So, that was the best. - Yeah, that's a highly devourable-- - It is, it just gets fascinated for every episode. It's just fascinating. - I'm seeing this Yo Gabba Gabba land. And I'm thinking-- - Yo, Gabba Gabba is so good. - Is it a kids show? - Uh-huh, well, do you remember how not long after SpongeBob SquarePants started on Nickelodeon, it was suddenly a huge hit with kids in college who regularly had the munchies? - Yeah, got it. - Yo Gabba Gabba is a similar vibe, but it's also delightful and the band from the show is like a real band that you can go listen to and stuff. And they're awesome, it's, they're, they're a blast. It's super fun. - Yeah, I wish Apple, I mean, we got Snoopy and we got this and then there's some other stuff. - Riggles. - I wish Apple would do some like adult swim stuff. You know, cartoons for adults with some-- - Look, is that so hard? - Yeah. - It's not, I mean, it's not Aquatine Hunger Force, let's be clear. But it tends to be more of, I just had this conversation with someone recently, what used to be family entertainment was like the Muppet show because there were jokes for the adults, they would say something subtle or there'd be a quick turn of phrase that the adults would understand and then there'd be the pie in the face or someone would slip and fall and that's also funny to the kids but it was something everybody could enjoy as opposed to now family entertainment is we made something for kids and maybe when it's over, parents won't be homicidal maniacs, maybe. Like that's kind of the definition now is it's for kids but if parents wanna be in the room that's fine and that's not what family entertainment used to be. So that's some of what I've seen from Apple and I appreciate that they do have some decent kids programming or some stuff that at least everyone can watch. They still have their fair share of, maybe you don't wanna watch this with your parents on the run but which is fine, there's nothing wrong with that kind of programming either. It just makes for awkward conversations later but that's part of what I've appreciated about like all the OG, Fraggle Rock stuff is on there which is legit family entertainment. The new Fraggle stuff is fun, I haven't watched all of it yet. The new Snoopy things are all kind of entertaining so I'm glad that there's at least variety because not everybody's up for slow horses or for all mankind and I appreciate that they're sort of copping to not all entertainment needs to be for everybody. Like we know that we're gonna put out stuff that's not gonna be for you or for, there's gonna be something on there that's like maybe David's not a fan of like, I don't know if either of you watch physical, it is super, super dark, it is, I mean, dark. I watch Four Seasons of Westworld, I'm here to tell you this is a dark show. And why? It's also amazing and so well done and well crafted production value sky high. It's so interesting, it's surprising all the time. It's really, really, really good. Not bingeable, again, dark. Also pretty firmly in the maybe don't watch it with your parents category but it's such a good show and it tells such an engaging story. So I absolutely recommend that on the opposite of the scale. I recommend Acapulco, which is another favorite. I just saw that we finally got a date for the second season of Shrinking, which is another show I feel like I need to evangelize to everybody. I don't think Acapulco gets the attention it deserves. And I know a few people who talked about Shrinking but I know a lot more people who really should be watching it and it's really, really fun. The creator, the main guy behind Ted Lasso and Roy Kent from Ted Lasso are the two main people behind Shrinking. So very funny, same vibe where it's a funny show but you care about the characters and sometimes sad things will happen and you are sad for them as well. But it's another half hour comedy program that is just delightful. And the way the first season ended, I could not wait for the second season and in typical Apple fashion, they don't tell you anything is ready until it's ready. And so there was no news for ever. Oh, there was even gonna be a second season. So I was very excited to finally get a date 'cause it's been a long time. And it was such a good show. I haven't watched through it as many times as I've watched through Ted Lasso, which is my favorite TV program of all TV programs. - Me too. - Well, right up there, I'm gonna say top three 'cause I mean, the Muppet Show. So it's top three, but everything about it, I just loved it and with Shrinking, it's the same thing. I really just wanna, I wanna web series where we see what some of the characters are like on their days off and that kind of stuff. I really, really loved it. - Yeah, oh, it's great. There's so much to watch on Apple TV Plus, but is this, could this be true? - Yeah, my question is why? Apple's in talks to bring ads to Apple TV Plus. Apple is working on the introduction of advertisements on Apple TV Plus, starting in the UK. And it's apparently been in discussions with the UK's broadcasters, audience research board. Barb, I guess they call it, is to explore the necessary data collection techniques for monitoring advertising results. Currently, Barb provides viewing statistics for major UK networks, BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Sky, as well as Apple TV Plus programming, but their discussions suggest that Apple's preparing to implement an ad supported tier on the streaming service, similar to moves made by competitors like Netflix, Disney Plus, Amazon Prime, that they're all doing it. Apple's already included some limited advertising in its live sports events, such as last year's Major League Soccer Coverage, where ads were incorporated even to the season pass holders, which is annoying, you're paying a lot of money for that. And competitors like Netflix and Disney Plus have successfully launched their lower cost ad supported tiers, which helped them attract additional subscribers and increase revenue. So I think that you guys, there's key words right there, increased revenue. Is Apple gonna be attracted to wanting to do that, just based on that, and then will they offer ads? And I don't start with you, Kelly, what do you think? - I feel like they probably will, everyone else does. And I don't think that's the thing that Apple wants to use to differentiate. I wish they would, particularly because part of, part of what this involves, what we need to measure if the ads are successful makes sense. Like, obviously you don't wanna put ads, you're not putting ads out into the void, right? You wanna make sure that you're getting some sort of return on that investment, 'cause nobody's gonna wanna put ads on a service they can't have any idea how those ads are performing. So I absolutely feel like they're probably going to do it, but I find that the data collection portion of this, even if it's anonymized, is something that kind of goes against a thing we hear from Apple a whole lot of the time about how it's your, it's your data, it's on your device, we can't see it, we don't know what to do with it. Even if we wanted to, there is no mechanism which we can use to get into it. And I want for that to be the case across the board. And I understand making money. I understand Apple has shareholders. I'm not trying to say anything about that. But I think it would be nice if one of the ways that the service was differentiated was like, we don't have ads and there's not a way to get them. And most of the reason for that is because I remember hearing a lot of complaining about the other platforms going to an advertising, including an advertising tier. Mostly because I never saw the resulting improved service from that. Like, I understand, hi John Martillaro, I understand the plural of anecdote is not data. But that said, I know a lot of people who did not choose to pay more. And as soon as ads rolled in, went, well now it's too much money for me to watch ad free so I'm canceling that service. I know a lot more people who said that then, it's an ad here and then it's fine. So I'm gonna keep paying my 10 bucks a month or 12 or whatever it is. So I haven't seen what the reports are on the increase in subscribers. So I'm presumably I'm wrong about that. So I'm curious how that actually shakes out. - How about your Marty? - You know, I have a tendency to ignore ads. I can't tell you the last one that ran on any streaming service that I just watched. So I don't know how ads influence me because I can't remember them to influence me. You know, it would be cool if they said, okay, we know they're gonna bump their prices up on a few things. I mean, Apple One subscription has been bumped a little bit. It might be bumped again in the future, but it would be nice if they say, if you're on Apple One, you're ad free. And that would be a way to drive people to Apple One. They get the increased storage. They get all the other goodies with it. And they would get ad free service. If you're not on Apple One and you're just doing Apple TV Plus, then we're gonna charge you. If you want it ad free, we're gonna charge you a little more each month. - Yeah. - That would be a smart move. I would like to think that's something they would do. - Yeah, I would think so too. I would think so too. All right. So let's some move on to do some of the new stories. Cut my eye this week. This is no surprise at all. Disney Plus is eliminating password sharing starting in September. We're in August as we record this in 2024. Disney plans to start seriously cracking down on password sharing on the Disney Plus streaming service in September. This was talked about by Disney CEO Bob Iger during their earnings call. Iger says that Disney would begin limiting password sharing in earnest next month. Disney has also, has been talking about this getting rid of password sharing for since a year ago. So it continues to go on. So it's gonna be inevitable to see if this is happening. And we're not surprised. I'm not at all surprised. Kelly, what do you think? I don't think that I think most of these services have been pretty much cracking down in password sharing these days. - Everybody wants to, that's the dream is to make sure that every single set of eyeballs is a separate charge, right? So I'm unsurprised. I remember, I think it was at like WWDC. It was a few years ago, like six or seven years ago, maybe now, when Apple first started offering and saying like, we're gonna make it so you can sign in with your cable provider and get everything that you can get from your cable provider. And I remember thinking, are they just making that easier so that everybody has to tie it to their cable subscription? 'Cause you can't share cable subscription. - Right. - And I remember asking Renee Ritchie about it in the talk that he was giving. And he went, oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'm like, yep, that's exactly it. That's why I thought that's what it was. So I'm sure that's what it is. I think it's an interesting move from a PR perspective that the two big pieces of news out of Disney this week were we are cracking down on passwords and also our service prices are going up. So I think that's a very interesting one, two punch there from Disney, just in case anybody forgot they were in the business of printing money. Here is your reminder and here's your other reminder. So I thought that was kind of an entertaining that pair of headlines to come out kinda at the same time, so yeah. - Yeah, yeah, I knew it was inevitable. How about you, Margaret, what do you think? - I know this is heresy here, but I don't watch Disney. I do have the bundled subscription because I have a Hulu watcher in my house. And I have ESPN Plus and occasionally I wanna sneak into there, but I'm not gonna watch a lot of stuff that comes out of the mouse house. I tried the Mandalorian and got through one season of it, didn't pick it back up. - Oh my God, that was a great show. - Just haven't, just have not gotten back into the other product that's on Disney. Occasionally I'll go in there and scan through their catalog and see what I'm not watching and go back and use Hulu and ESPN Plus. But I also don't have people to share it with, so it's no big deal. It's all under our household. I don't have relatives in Nebraska that wanna camp onto my Disney account, so. - Yep, and keep it along with the trend you're talking about the TV and streaming and all that stuff. Google TV streamer was announced as the Chromecast replacement to rival Apple TV 4K. Google announced the TV streamer. Actually yesterday as we record this as a new device that replaced the Chromecast, and it will directly rival the Apple TV 4K. It marks an end of an era actually with the Chromecast, which it actually was one of the original streaming dongles that were showed so cheap. And it was a staple in the market since its launch in 2013. Oh my God, that was so long ago. That's 11 years. Over 100 million Chromecast devices were sold during that run. And it's positioned to high-end replacement for the Chromecast promising to have delivered a next-generation AI-powered streaming experience. I'm also functioning as a central hub for smart home devices. There you go, right there. It will provide over-- - That's just needing. - Yeah, yeah. Over 700,000 movies shows through popular streaming apps, of course, YouTube TV and all the other things that normally it's gonna have. It's gonna come in two different colors, porcelain and hazel. The latter being exclusive to the US, Google Store, and it's intended to sit in front of the TV rather than behind it to improve connectivity with the smart home devices. It's gotta redesign voice remotes, the features and proves ergonomics and with the textured backs for better grip and optimized button layouts with the remote. That remote, so they're really, really good going on to this, they're looking at the pricing here. There's gonna be at around $99, which actually think about it. It's a pretty, pretty good price compared to what the Apple TV is at around $129, base price. You can pre-order it. It's gonna be available in September. Either you're gonna even think about looking at this? - I'll buy it, try it, put it in the closet. - That's what I usually do. (laughs) - I'm fascinated by it. I, the Chromecast, when they first came out and they were really cheap, I was working with international students who were coming here for like 15 weeks and going to and staying in a hotel and not having at the hotel we had them, not many options for media. So we bought them all Chromecast devices to plug in and they enjoyed them and that was fun and dandy. I'll get this just 'cause I'm curious about it. I think the porcelain and hazel colors, it sounds like kitchen colors to me. - That doesn't sound like living room colors and I won't be watching much in my kitchen. - Interesting, another article here, I included this was from Apple Insider. Gave it, already giving the looking at the spec comparisons here. Again, the pricing was, as we said, about 20 or $30 difference dimensions are no biggie, the weight, I think that of course the TV stream is smaller and lighter. But interestingly enough, the capacity, you know, Apple TV 4K comes in a 64 gig wife. The only model or the 128 gig with ethernet. TV streamer only has 32 gigs of storage. Maybe they decided on that only because they think people are gonna be doing a lot of storage and the way that, you know, I've had experience-- - Chromecast didn't. I mean, the Chromecast had no storage at all. And it didn't even have an operating, like much of an operating system. Like it was literally a conduit for you to put something from another screen on your TV. It couldn't do anything on its own. - Yeah, so, but Apple even expands upon video formats. You know, it got the Google TV streamer as STR video, Dolby Vision, HDR10 and 10LG, where Apple goes even beyond that with H.264 and peg4, and then also has the HDMI quick media switching. So you got that right there. And even audio formats, you know, Apple really expands upon that. All the different ones. And then the Google TV Plus is a little bit more limited. So it'll be a stink, see where this goes. I think it'll probably sell. - I don't think these are the competition. - No. - I don't think Google's competing with Apple. I think Google is competing with Amazon. - And Roku probably, too. - I think the Fire TV, yeah. I think the, well, yeah, that's right. The Roku does come in a box format now that doesn't stick into the back of the TV. I, while we're on Kelly playing all the hits, here's a B side from a few years back. I still want Apple to make the streaming stick because Apple TV is the best set top box experience even though you can't put it on top of the TV anymore. It is still the best set top box experience. And I want to take that with me everywhere instead of having to take the Chromecast that I have or the Firestick that I have or the Roku that I have. I want it to be an Apple TV. I wanna take that little Magigur with me everywhere instead of the slab. 'Cause now that they're 4K, that thing's a slab, just in it. Anyway, I think this is a thing to compete with Amazon because Amazon has the same sort of integrated assistant kind of thing. I think that Amazon box is like $100 or $100. It's like 99 or 109 for the box one, which I think also does the same home hub stuff and has the assistant in it. Like I always feel like Google and Amazon when it comes to the home assistant and the devices that they make, those two are in far more competition than either of them is with Apple on most stuff. So, obviously there's exceptions. But I think, I feel like this is gunning a lot more for people's fire TV boxes than it is for people's Apple TV boxes. - Yeah, yeah, Ben, Ben the latest comment in the chat here on youtube.com/sublives. The lack of an Apple TV stick is the only reason why I have Google TV boxes 'cause they're small. I agree with you that. And hey, Webex speaks in the chat here as well. I wish for an Apple TV stick as well. - It warms my heart when I'm not the only one tilting it up to the window. - And for folks listening, the Google device has just slipped to shipping September 27th. I just went on and I had a bunch of store credit and I just hold the trigger on it. So, yeah, yep. And that surprised, it'll be up. - Stay tuned for next week in spending Marty's money. - Yeah, a couple more stories here. Apple finalizes its first retail union contract with a Maryland store. Apple had reduced a provisional agreement with the first unionized retail store in Townsend, Maryland, marking a significant development in the company's labor relations. Apple has agreed a tentative collective bargaining agreement with the retail employees of that store. First of its kind in the company's operations in the United States. And it's the International Association of Machinists as well as the Aerospace Workers' Coalition of Organized Retail Employees announced a deal. And it'll let detailing improvements in pay, work life balance, job security, and the agreement will have a pending vote, which will be about 85 in employees. And then it looks like that probably got approved at this point. So, yeah, it's just like Starbucks was doing it. A lot of these places we're trying to unionize and the least apples is being open to it that we're with the retail stores, right, Bill? - Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a pretty solid limb here and say the world is not gonna end if that happens. - No. - Things will continue just as they did before. It will be fine. Honestly, I am always happy to see when an organization, when employees at some place decide to unionize and they do not get Starbucks, somebody suddenly decides to close that store for business reasons. - Yeah, quote on quote. - I'm glad that's not happening. And I appreciate that Apple's given it a shot. And I mean, there's a whole lot, unions are a whole thing. And I know that that's a separate podcast. But it's nice to have one so that you don't have to have one before you need it. It's nice to have it there. So I'm glad that we're gonna get to see what happens. And maybe people will be slightly less overworked at Christmas time and it'd be nice if everybody could just generally be happier in the jobs that they have. So yeah. - Yeah. - Is getting Starbucks, is getting Starbucks the new verb now? - Apparently. - I think it might be. You heard it again first. - Okay. (laughs) - Apparently more Kelly. - Two more stories here. Apple did update its app store guidelines for PC emulator apps. They refreshed their guidelines for developers modifying the emulator for rules to include Express permission for PC emulators to download games. It was updated to state that the PC Emulator apps will offer download games as well as the guy that guy has the guideline previously said that console emulator apps could include the option to download games but not explicitly covering PC emulators. This real change comes from Apple's app store approval of PC emulator, UTM SE, which we talked about on the previous show, which is it emulates old versions of Windows, Mac OS and Linux to use classic software in games, which is kind of fun. I started downloading it, I played around a little bit, but it's gonna take some hours to play with. All right, so I'm concerned. But this is great that Apple's opened up to this. So what do you think, Marty? - You inspired me on a previous show and I started downloading this stuff and thought I would wanna play some cool old games and then got totally confused and went on to something else. So now I'll probably have to try it again. - Yep. - Have you tried it yet, Kelly? - I haven't yet, but I'm probably going to. There's some old games that I really enjoyed. So there's an excellent chance it's gonna happen. Part of the reason I am partial to these, even if I don't use them very much or don't play a ton of games on them or anything is because making them more common, making them more obviously available to anybody who feels like it also helps preserve the history of a lot of these things because so many things have been lost over time because you can't play them on a device that anybody can go by now anymore. So there's so much out there that people are, that is getting preserved because people wanna be able to continue to play it and these emulators make it so that people can, you can find out there's an interest and a lot of stuff doesn't end up just lost to the mists of time because, you know, because digital thing, you know, digital, like a video game and things like that, you know, they're a little less tangible in a lot of ways. And, you know, if you've got it on a floppy and that you can't put that floppy into any device that you can easily get your hands on, then, you know, do you really have a copy of it anywhere? So I really like that this is something that getting more people interested in old games and helping all of those things might help motivate some folks to, you know, and inspire people to help preserve this stuff going forward and to start now with, you know, things that are out now and being able to, you know, make sure that 30 years from now somebody can still see Baldur's Gate 3, you know, it's like that. Like, I hope that this sort of helps make that happen in the future as well. - Yeah, I'm in search for, I'm in search, constantly in search for a copy of "Zaxon" and something that I can play. But, you know, as you were talking, Kelly, I was thinking, I'm not a developer, I don't know that whole thing, but it's not just the preservation of it, but I can imagine, you know, if I'm a young kid and I want to get into programming or development, I look at all these very, very complicated games that I'm playing and I'm like, that's a huge lift for me. But if I can start with the simple programming stuff and then move to some of these 30-year-old game kind of pixelated type of methods and then it's kind of the stepping stone in my development and my understanding of how to develop. So it adds that component for not only of history, but it also kind of says this is the first step, this is the second step. You don't go from first step to 10th step, it can, but this is how we got there. - Yeah, yeah, and, you know, telling somebody that's interested, like you can build a game like Pong, you can build a game, you can build a level of Super Mario Brothers, you know, like in that style, like that is a far more achievable thing than, you know, build a level of Halo, build a level of, you know, dead space, whatever. Like that, you know, that's not where you start, like you were saying. So I hope that this also helps that, you know, somebody falls in love with Super Mario, whatever, or, you know, some other, you know, Spaceword Ho, which is one of the ones that I always want to play. You know, somebody falls in love with something from Ambrosia, from back in the day, and goes like, yeah, maybe that's a thing that I could do. This would be a fun thing to get to learn, and, you know, give somebody an in. Like that, that feels a lot more possible. - Yep. All right, well, last stories in the news of this week. Balenciaga and Ramon Moiwa launched apps for the Apple Vision Pro. This is for you, Marty. Luxury French fashion house, Balenciaga, and I'm like, "Paprozzar, Ryder." - This is why we barely covered it on my show. - Okay, well, I can't pronounce those names. - So what, I gave it a shot here, now you get to talk about it. They launched apps. They launched apps for the Apple Vision Pro, expanding the headsets immersive fashion experience. Then now they introduced this very first phase of this Apple Vision Pro app, designing the design to provide users an immersive view of the fashion shows and collections, and the app does offer exclusive drone views and stereo scopic footage of their catalog. And I don't think that would be the same thing else. I brought it up only more because I do think you're gonna start seeing more and more of these, a lot of these companies gonna start doing things like this? - Yeah, since my fashion sense are t-shirts and board shorts, I probably won't be going to these stores to purchase anything. I think what the significance is, is this is the European market, and Vision Pro was released in the European market, and now they kind of got their own, we have some high profile stores on Vision Pro already, and now the European market has those stores, are starting to put their own stores in there, which is cool. - Any thoughts, Kelly? - Balenciaga and Rimmoa are awesome and high-end, so of course they made something for an awesome and high-end computer. Rimmoa, people might know they make, they're like metal hard-sided suitcases that have a specific sort of ridged pattern, like if they're wheeling along, it's like vertical. Balenciaga makes a great many beautiful things, so there you go. I am also a, I'm team t-shirt and, it generally starts with a t-shirt. If it's cold weather, I would probably wearing jeans, and if it's warmer weather, I'm probably wearing shorts. You know, 'cause I like to mix it up. But I think it's interesting, I think it would be interesting to see what those apps are capable of doing. I'm not sure what you would do with an Apple Vision Pro app from a company that is primarily known for making hard-sided luggage. - Yep. - I mean, that's what I know them for. I don't know what they make beyond that, so. - Unless it's doing the AR thing of flopping it in your living room, so you can see it. - Yeah. - All right. - That's all I got. - I got a tip for this week, and there's an experience that happened a couple weeks ago, for me. This was an adventure, as I'm saying, in the notes here, that my new iPad Pro, 13-inch. I pulled out my bag the other day and come to realize it didn't power up, like, okay, I must have hadn't used it in a while and the battery went down to zero, so, okay, great. I went and plugged it in, let it sit for, you know, it usually turns on right away when she plugged it in after about five or 10 minutes. No power, no power at all, okay, great. So I usually, you know, remember how to do things here, push the power button down on this iPad, and then power back up, it would not come at all. And I'm just not thinking I hadn't done this in a while. I said, I wonder what's going on here. This is like, you know, this is expensive iPad and I'm freaking out about this, so. So I went, I said, you know what? It's Sunday I decided to go and just bring it over to the Apple Store and see if one of the geniuses could help me out here. And I said, by no means am I ever a genius, 'cause there's things that I've, like this one that's probably shouldn't be emitting this 'cause I should have done this, but there is a way to, that everybody should know, you know, I've talked about this a million times how to do a hard reset, hold the volume down, up, then hold the power button in to do a hard reset. So I didn't even, I thought I was doing it. I wasn't thinking even, you know, the buttons are in position differently if you forget. So he went ahead and did that. So then it turned out once we finally got the power back up 'cause we plugged in for a little bit, that it was still not working properly. So, you know, I was like, oh, I'm glad I am here. Now that obviously it was, it was a reason why that this something was happening with this piece. But the genie said, well, sometimes it happens and you've got to reinstall the OS, I'm like, oh, great. I don't have to go through all that again. And, you know, 'cause that's what everybody thinks. You got to dis-erase it and then reinstall it and do all that. So, but no, there's not a way you do that because I have a support article that I've linked here in the show notes that, you know, the steps I talked about, if your iPod won't turn on or if it's frozen. If it was black or frozen, and like I said, you just do the hard reset. And then, and a lot of the other reason that I, what I did experience was the fact that if the iPad turns on but it gets stuck during startup, you're seeing the Apple logo, the red or blue screens during setup, then what you need to do is actually, you got to involve connecting it to your Mac. You know, you're on the iPad, you hold the home button and the top button at the same time and keep holding it until you put it in the recovery mode screen. And then you've got to plug it into your Mac. Now, basically what will happen is it comes up and says there is a problem with your iPad that requires you to update it or restore it. The keywords there update. Now, when you do this, what it does is it downloads the latest OS, so in this case, iPad OS 18, or 18 iPad OS 17.6 at the time. - Technically, you are correct, yeah. - Yeah, and what it does is it downloads it, but all it does is it does a low-level install. It just installs the operating system, the OS, and then it installs it onto the iPad. And voila, it comes back, it takes a little time, of course, 'cause it's using the finder and connecting the iPad, or even an iPhone for that matter to get it to restore, it can be a little slower than just doing it like you normally do by just erasing and starting over, which I could have done. Maybe wanna do that. So it downloaded, installed the OS alone, and it came back, my iCloud account was still signed in, all my apps were in place. A little bit of customization had to be done, but great tip here to know that you can do that without having to do a full-out erasing restore. Now, I think that it doesn't hurt to even do that when your device is kind of wonky. I've seen that before, even with my blunder of not forgetting about having to do a reset, that it isn't a bad idea to try this and install it on a device, so it just reinstalls the OS and keeps things in place, 'cause that boy had saved you a ton of time, I tell ya. So, and you guys, have you ever tried, I assume you guys have known about this, and it's something that I highly recommend now. - The plug-in with a cable and-- - Putting it on one foot and do the hokey-pokey and champ, yeah. I've had to do that just often enough when, well, I've got this phone or I've got this iPad, and I plugged it in for like an hour, and it never came back, and I don't know what's going on with it. A lot of times, the first thing I do is check the port to make sure the iPhone's belly button is not thoroughly coated inlet, and then-- - Yes. - If that doesn't seem to be the problem, then it's the plug-in recovery mode dance for that one. I have found that the hard restart, volume up, volume down, hold the other button 'til the Apple logo comes up, is a thing that fixes an awful lot of things before it gets too fully weird. So once you get to full-blown wonky, this is the only thing that you could do. I always have to look it up every time, but I know that it's a thing I have to pull out once in a while, so-- - Me too. - That's the, but it's very, very useful. So the one I would say is, remember that hard restart is a thing because that can resolve things that the regular power it off and count to five and turn it back on again does not. - Yeah, anything to add, Marty? - I have CRS, so I can't remember-- - Stop. - Yeah, stuff. And I have trouble with my iPads 'cause I close 'em up and I think I've shut 'em off, but really all I've done is put 'em in sleep mode and then I open 'em up and either they come back on with low or no power or they don't come on and then I wind up pressing a combination of buttons until I see the Apple thing come on and I'm like, okay. I panic a little bit and then it just keep pushing until, and hold it for 10 seconds and then eventually something boots up. So I haven't had those kinds of problems where it just freezes completely. It's been a while since I've done that and had to put a direct cable into it to jump it, yeah. - Yeah, very much so. And Cletus in the chat says Nuke and Pave, that's the most painful thing to do with any Apple device, especially Max. That's a lot of work. I know our friend Alison Sheridan loves doing that all the time, for Max. It's just a painful, long, long process to get it back to where you want it to be. - So David, when you were at the Apple store, did you take an opportunity to purchase something new? - I did not. I was a good boy. I did not. No, I did not. I was very, I was resistant. In fact, there was a rain storm that was there. I had to sit there and wait for a while and in fact, I sat through one of the, you know, how the geniuses go up at the front of the room and talk about a 15 minute session. Yeah, they talked about the photos app, so some things I didn't remember. So there's another good tip when you go to the Apple store about to check a look at those sessions they have today at Apple. They have some amazing little sessions in. This one was, he sets up at the front. Yeah, they have big, enormous, big screens in most stores and he's got his iPhone shared and he's going through it and showing how to do it. And yeah, it's, so they've got some great events there as well as hands on when you could set a table and talk about stuff. So yeah, I took care of that. I'm still not buying the Vision Pro yet, so maybe one of these days. I'm tempted, I'm tempted still, but the price is still killing me. - All right. - You just saved a lot of money not having to buy a new iPad, think of it that way. - Well, I wouldn't have had to because that's why Apple care with accidental, accidental damage. So anyway, that was such a great show. Thank you both for being here. I really, really had a blast here for the show and let's go ahead and wrap up for this week. That's a wrap for this week. Please send your comments, questions and suggestions to our email address, which is feedback@intouchedleiwas.com. You can follow us on Mastodon@intouchedleiwas at techhangout.social. Support the show by me at coffee@intouchedleiwas.com/coffee. We would really appreciate it. You can become a patron of the show by going to patreon.com/intouchedleiwas. We have two tiers available to support the show. We would really appreciate it. Make sure you like, share and subscribe when you will be notified when we are live streaming, which is Thursday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern Time, at 5 p.m. Pacific, on our YouTube channel, which is youtube.com/intouchedleiwas. Thank you, Brian, thank you, Cleanis, thank you, Webb and all the others who are in the chat tonight. You can be there and hang out with us while we're recording the show live here. You can watch the past live streams and you can listen to the past shows right there in the channel. Visit in Touchlandiwas Magazine on Flipboard where many of the topics we discussed are flipped into the magazine. The link is in our show notes. You can subscribe to the show and your favorite potcatcher, including pocket casts, overcasts, Apple podcasts and many others. But better yet, just go to intouchedleiwas.com where all the links, so all the ways to listen to us are on that website. I am Dave Ginsburg and you can find me on Mastodon@davg65 and Mastodon.cloud. Thank you, Kelly, for being here. Always a pleasure to have you on the show where it could be to find you. - Thank you so much for having me. You can occasionally find me distracting Chuck Joyner on Mastodon Live on Tuesday night. - No overdue. - I know. I keep going, oh, tonight I can't, and then no. So like I say, a lot of weeks, I'm gonna try next week. I always do when something else happens. And then you can occasionally find me when Mike and I can figure out when we have the same time open on our schedule on the after-show with Mike and Kelly at aftershowpodcast.com. Brought to you by weatheralibi, weatheralibi.com for all your weather alibi needs. You can watch my talk at Mackstock where I taught a bunch of nerd's how to yarn for a while, which was really fun. You can also occasionally find me on this show because David keeps inviting me back. And you can sometimes find me on various podcasts over at the incomparable and probably the one that will be the most relevant to most people is the two episodes we did about the first two Deadpool movies in anticipation of the third. You can also find me on Mastodon at mastodon.social and occasionally posting something on Instagram when I go to shows. - Great, thank you for being here. And Marty Gensias, thank you always for being here in this curriculum contributor work and people find you. - You can find me here on Thursday nights, also on Mack Voices on Tuesday. And then thepodtalk.net has links to my three podcasts. I do one called Vision Profiles with Eric Bolden about the Vision Pro. That's a weekly podcast that we do comes out on Monday night, Tuesday morning. Then also Circular Firing Squad with is a chat up show about life issues and other fun stuff in academia. And then tech savvy professor, which comes out every couple of weeks. So we talk about tech use in academia. - Great, thank you so much, appreciate it. And thank you for listening and watching and for the folks being in the chat and the YouTube channel. And every time you come join us every week here, we enjoy doing it. And until next time, we'll talk again soon. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music fades) [ Silence ]
